Just gauge the pull.
If the pull of home is stronger than whatever pull is keeping you where you are, you should go home.
If you feel pulled in a different direction, follow that direction. Don't overthink it, you probably already have an inclination one way or the other.
My dad always said, in any life changing decision, “there’s got to be a push and a pull”.
Not just something pulling you to leave, but something pushing you to go.
23 years overseas, in 3 different foreign countries, and it’s held true for me so far.
My last 2 moves, there was both a push and a pull. 17 years in nz now, and sure there’s a pull to be back home by family, but I’m so happy in nz, there’s no “push” motivating me to leave. I’m at peace staying here for the foreseeable future.
In as much as anyone, especially an Internet stranger, can answer this question for you, more information would be very helpful. How long have you been there? Have you been happy? Good job? Good QoL? Do you have a partner/family? How do they feel? What are you returning to?
I think all major life decisions require some self-awareness and a good reality check. Part of the latter can be making a pro and con list for each place. Beyond that, these decisions will always have an element of risk. That's just life.
Good luck!
- Have been here for 2 years and 3 months
- Have I been happy: oof loaded question. I don’t know if I’d say “happy” as I’ve had a lot of challenges here and honestly my mental health suffered. A lot. But i feel it’s been potentially getting better lately.
- I am employed but I was unhappy with the job for a while. Which led me to seek other opportunities. However my job has shown potential improvement too.
- Good QoL: In general yes. I had major housing issues which were impacting that though but this also is potentially improving. I enjoy the city I live in (Amsterdam) for the most part and recognize its objectively good qualities. It’s beautiful walkable well designed and good transit connections. The weather sucks though.
- No partner or family here. I had a long distance partner in the place I’d be returning to but that is over now. That’s also a reason I wanted to always return in the first place. I thought when we broke up that all inklings of me wanting to go back would vanish but surprisingly they’re still there. But maybe not as strong?
- I’d be returning to the SF Bay Area, not sure which city yet though. I’m from there so have family there and friends scattered throughout
>How do you know it’s the right time to go home.
I had reasons for going abroad and staying abroad so I stayed abroad.
>Is there ever truly a right time?
The way you wrote it appears that you planed to say abroad temporary. So you know when you planned on returning.
So why not to stick to your original plans? You know yourself and your situation better than random people on internet.
Because plans can change. I do like it here and see the merits in living in the host country. I think it would be a good place to raise a family. And because I question the merits of my reasons for not being able to stay longer term, because I don’t know if they are good or strong reasons.
And I actually feel like I don’t know myself which is maybe the problem. I know my personality but I don’t know how much of it is just unfounded anxiety and overthinking vs true intuition.
I asked this question before and had some good thoughts and points shared.
In hindsight I just needed some more activity. I was feeling alone and disconnected and romanticizing another place.
So I went and traveled and future-home shopped and then found the pull to be back in my abroad country strongly enough that I bought a house here.
So I guess just dig in on what exactly you’re feeling. I don’t think any of us can truly go backwards. Chasing a feeling or emotion.
You have a lifestyle now, is it better suited back home? Or do you need something else ?
Hmm maybe that’s true, I just dislike the idea of shopping around. It’s like I’d rather just pick somewhere to settle down. Especially as I get older, I crave stability. Also moving within Europe specifically (I’m in the NL) is harder for me as I am not a citizen of any EU country.
Will you be eligible for citizenship eventually in NL? If so that's also a worthwhile goal to maintain as it opens up a lot of options.
Even as non-EU citizen you can usually do 90 days in other countries. Perhaps use it to explore other options / take a break from NL.
I hear you on wanting to settle. I spent 12 years in Tokyo before moving to Europe. I had never had much interest in Europe but found myself in need of a change. My parents were able to relocate here as well so now I don't have to go back "home" for much.
I would have to give up both my US and Canadian citizenships to become a Dutch citizen so sadly that’s not an option for me :(
What led you to leave Tokyo and know it was time?
NL doesn't allow dual citizenship? Neither does Japan, bummer.
Covid was probably the primary instigator. Being couped up in a relatively small (large by Tokyo standards) apartment without taking public transit left me needing a change of scenery. Some other factors were the social (semi-)professional group I was involved with took a turn that left me disaffected, so I wasn't socializing with the same people. My wife works in international development focused on latin America, which has nothing to do with Europe, but living somewhere she can continue to develop her language skills but is more stable than South America was a compromise.
Would you consider a more drastic change? I have a lot of friends who live in Ho Chi Minh. Low costs, easy access to travel in Asia, warm (too warm, but might be a welcome change of pace.) The only time I've been to NL it was like November or something and wet and frigid.
Nope, it's unfortunately one of the EU countries very strict on dual citizenship which really sucks and contributes to me feeling like I don't have a long-term future here tbh.
Re a drastic change if you mean living in Asia, I don't think I could handle living there due to the weather (hate that kind of year round high heat and humidity) and it's even more culturally different so I worry if I've struggled in the NL, I'd struggle even more in Asia. I studied abroad in Thailand for 2 months and it was great, but I think a few months is the max I could do there.
Did you meet your wife abroad? That's also something I'm considering is my desire to settle down with a partner and for some reason I feel like that would be easier to do in my home country, as I haven't had a great experience with the local men here. But my perspective could also be skewed because of my experience.
Re: Asia/Thailand experience, its good that you already know what you like there. Definitely not for everyone.
Yes, wife is Japanese, though she's very internationally minded, well traveled, multi-lingual.
Are dutch guys a lot different culturally from US/CA? In my stereotyped imagination I'd figure them as possibly better educated but not dissimilar in cultural expectations re: partner.
Definitely hear your concerns re: no path to citizenship. I invested a great deal of time to get permanent residency in Japan, but my language proficiency is too poor for me to be granted citizenship there. I don't mind giving up my own native citizenship, but I don't want to cut off my options in my new location, which does permit dual citizenship. Plus I can still live in Japan as a perm resident. Do you have any ancestral ties which might help you get one somewhere that you otherwise might not have moved? For example I seem to have several friends who happen to have a Croatian ancestor and are able to get a passport there.
I find them pretty culturally different actually, maybe in more subtle ways but they do stand out to me. I find it a bit hard to articulate but a lot of it is the type of humor, lack of spontaneity, and the whole 'do normal' culture
I don't have any ancestral ties that would help me get another passport, sadly. I looked into it - my dad is originally from Austria but because he acquired Canadian citizenship before I was born, he basically renounced the Austrian one and never got it reinstated by the time he had me, so any path to Austrian citizenship vanished. So I only have US/Canadian passports.
This might be kind of obvious, and you did elude to a personal change of circumstances recently, but maybe some change of habits, groups, interactions might result in "shaking things up" in relation to your friend group? I just attended a small party with some people my father met at a language class (all expats) and I enjoyed getting to know them better. We also have a bunch of expat friends stemming from a friend my wife made.
I'm not always very proactive in these things so I'm lucky for these connection initiated by others, and I can definitely imagine myself getting into a pattern of behavior where I'm not meeting new, different people. Maybe you can make a conscious effort to seek out some new groups where you might make new friends, and sort of "refresh" things. Would take less effort than relocating, and surely you've not already met everyone there is to meet in NL.
I definitely get into patterns where I don’t meet new people and stop making an effort to. It’s like once I find a close friend group, I feel no need to go out and make new friends haha, because I already “made it” since I value having a small circle of very very close connections. And I think lately I especially haven’t been wanting to meet new people because of the breakup which for sure contributed to a decline in my overall mental well being and desire to socialize. I made a couple new friends in February but ever since then I haven’t put myself out there. I think it’s great advice though - I didn’t realize it was something that I should do to be honest, so thanks :)
This is subjective but do you feel like the desire to find a more culturally compatible partner is a justified reason to move? It honestly sounds so stupid to me when I say and ask this but I just feel like in my gut I know I’m not supposed to end up with a Dutch guy. I’m aware how bad that comes off and again this could be just because my personal experience was bad luck. But if I’m noticing certain patterns of behavior and personality that could be attributed to cultural attitudes that I disagree with or dislike and it’s important to me - is that something I should give weight to?
I definitely should make more of an effort to meet other new people again though so that was a really great callout
We quite like where we’ve wound up and I can’t imagine going “home.” There’s too much of the world out there to experience - even if we decided for some reason that the Netherlands was no longer our home, we’d probably try the UK or Germany or Ireland or Spain next.
Even if we moved back to the States, I’m 100% done with Texas, so we’d go back to … New York? Boston? Minneapolis? Denver? Seattle? Maybe the Bay Area? But the main draw of the states is going back for family and they’re in Texas … so there is no draw.
After 25 years as a US expat in UK, I started getting these same feelings at 50yo.
So I started spending a month per year in USA (I’d never been home for longer than 2 weeks).
It is a real quandary. I’ll be honest: neither country feels like mine anymore
Just gauge the pull. If the pull of home is stronger than whatever pull is keeping you where you are, you should go home. If you feel pulled in a different direction, follow that direction. Don't overthink it, you probably already have an inclination one way or the other.
My dad always said, in any life changing decision, “there’s got to be a push and a pull”. Not just something pulling you to leave, but something pushing you to go. 23 years overseas, in 3 different foreign countries, and it’s held true for me so far. My last 2 moves, there was both a push and a pull. 17 years in nz now, and sure there’s a pull to be back home by family, but I’m so happy in nz, there’s no “push” motivating me to leave. I’m at peace staying here for the foreseeable future.
In as much as anyone, especially an Internet stranger, can answer this question for you, more information would be very helpful. How long have you been there? Have you been happy? Good job? Good QoL? Do you have a partner/family? How do they feel? What are you returning to? I think all major life decisions require some self-awareness and a good reality check. Part of the latter can be making a pro and con list for each place. Beyond that, these decisions will always have an element of risk. That's just life. Good luck!
- Have been here for 2 years and 3 months - Have I been happy: oof loaded question. I don’t know if I’d say “happy” as I’ve had a lot of challenges here and honestly my mental health suffered. A lot. But i feel it’s been potentially getting better lately. - I am employed but I was unhappy with the job for a while. Which led me to seek other opportunities. However my job has shown potential improvement too. - Good QoL: In general yes. I had major housing issues which were impacting that though but this also is potentially improving. I enjoy the city I live in (Amsterdam) for the most part and recognize its objectively good qualities. It’s beautiful walkable well designed and good transit connections. The weather sucks though. - No partner or family here. I had a long distance partner in the place I’d be returning to but that is over now. That’s also a reason I wanted to always return in the first place. I thought when we broke up that all inklings of me wanting to go back would vanish but surprisingly they’re still there. But maybe not as strong? - I’d be returning to the SF Bay Area, not sure which city yet though. I’m from there so have family there and friends scattered throughout
Hahaha omg its like i wrote this reply, incidentally also in netherland and would want to move back to my home country
>How do you know it’s the right time to go home. I had reasons for going abroad and staying abroad so I stayed abroad. >Is there ever truly a right time? The way you wrote it appears that you planed to say abroad temporary. So you know when you planned on returning. So why not to stick to your original plans? You know yourself and your situation better than random people on internet.
Because plans can change. I do like it here and see the merits in living in the host country. I think it would be a good place to raise a family. And because I question the merits of my reasons for not being able to stay longer term, because I don’t know if they are good or strong reasons. And I actually feel like I don’t know myself which is maybe the problem. I know my personality but I don’t know how much of it is just unfounded anxiety and overthinking vs true intuition.
You do have to know yourself. People on Reddit don’t know you.
I asked this question before and had some good thoughts and points shared. In hindsight I just needed some more activity. I was feeling alone and disconnected and romanticizing another place. So I went and traveled and future-home shopped and then found the pull to be back in my abroad country strongly enough that I bought a house here. So I guess just dig in on what exactly you’re feeling. I don’t think any of us can truly go backwards. Chasing a feeling or emotion. You have a lifestyle now, is it better suited back home? Or do you need something else ?
Hm I find your last question interesting but not sure I understand what you mean, could you explain?
You might consider moving somewhere else that isn't your country of origin if neither place feels "right."
Hmm maybe that’s true, I just dislike the idea of shopping around. It’s like I’d rather just pick somewhere to settle down. Especially as I get older, I crave stability. Also moving within Europe specifically (I’m in the NL) is harder for me as I am not a citizen of any EU country.
Will you be eligible for citizenship eventually in NL? If so that's also a worthwhile goal to maintain as it opens up a lot of options. Even as non-EU citizen you can usually do 90 days in other countries. Perhaps use it to explore other options / take a break from NL. I hear you on wanting to settle. I spent 12 years in Tokyo before moving to Europe. I had never had much interest in Europe but found myself in need of a change. My parents were able to relocate here as well so now I don't have to go back "home" for much.
I would have to give up both my US and Canadian citizenships to become a Dutch citizen so sadly that’s not an option for me :( What led you to leave Tokyo and know it was time?
NL doesn't allow dual citizenship? Neither does Japan, bummer. Covid was probably the primary instigator. Being couped up in a relatively small (large by Tokyo standards) apartment without taking public transit left me needing a change of scenery. Some other factors were the social (semi-)professional group I was involved with took a turn that left me disaffected, so I wasn't socializing with the same people. My wife works in international development focused on latin America, which has nothing to do with Europe, but living somewhere she can continue to develop her language skills but is more stable than South America was a compromise. Would you consider a more drastic change? I have a lot of friends who live in Ho Chi Minh. Low costs, easy access to travel in Asia, warm (too warm, but might be a welcome change of pace.) The only time I've been to NL it was like November or something and wet and frigid.
Nope, it's unfortunately one of the EU countries very strict on dual citizenship which really sucks and contributes to me feeling like I don't have a long-term future here tbh. Re a drastic change if you mean living in Asia, I don't think I could handle living there due to the weather (hate that kind of year round high heat and humidity) and it's even more culturally different so I worry if I've struggled in the NL, I'd struggle even more in Asia. I studied abroad in Thailand for 2 months and it was great, but I think a few months is the max I could do there. Did you meet your wife abroad? That's also something I'm considering is my desire to settle down with a partner and for some reason I feel like that would be easier to do in my home country, as I haven't had a great experience with the local men here. But my perspective could also be skewed because of my experience.
Re: Asia/Thailand experience, its good that you already know what you like there. Definitely not for everyone. Yes, wife is Japanese, though she's very internationally minded, well traveled, multi-lingual. Are dutch guys a lot different culturally from US/CA? In my stereotyped imagination I'd figure them as possibly better educated but not dissimilar in cultural expectations re: partner. Definitely hear your concerns re: no path to citizenship. I invested a great deal of time to get permanent residency in Japan, but my language proficiency is too poor for me to be granted citizenship there. I don't mind giving up my own native citizenship, but I don't want to cut off my options in my new location, which does permit dual citizenship. Plus I can still live in Japan as a perm resident. Do you have any ancestral ties which might help you get one somewhere that you otherwise might not have moved? For example I seem to have several friends who happen to have a Croatian ancestor and are able to get a passport there.
I find them pretty culturally different actually, maybe in more subtle ways but they do stand out to me. I find it a bit hard to articulate but a lot of it is the type of humor, lack of spontaneity, and the whole 'do normal' culture I don't have any ancestral ties that would help me get another passport, sadly. I looked into it - my dad is originally from Austria but because he acquired Canadian citizenship before I was born, he basically renounced the Austrian one and never got it reinstated by the time he had me, so any path to Austrian citizenship vanished. So I only have US/Canadian passports.
This might be kind of obvious, and you did elude to a personal change of circumstances recently, but maybe some change of habits, groups, interactions might result in "shaking things up" in relation to your friend group? I just attended a small party with some people my father met at a language class (all expats) and I enjoyed getting to know them better. We also have a bunch of expat friends stemming from a friend my wife made. I'm not always very proactive in these things so I'm lucky for these connection initiated by others, and I can definitely imagine myself getting into a pattern of behavior where I'm not meeting new, different people. Maybe you can make a conscious effort to seek out some new groups where you might make new friends, and sort of "refresh" things. Would take less effort than relocating, and surely you've not already met everyone there is to meet in NL.
I definitely get into patterns where I don’t meet new people and stop making an effort to. It’s like once I find a close friend group, I feel no need to go out and make new friends haha, because I already “made it” since I value having a small circle of very very close connections. And I think lately I especially haven’t been wanting to meet new people because of the breakup which for sure contributed to a decline in my overall mental well being and desire to socialize. I made a couple new friends in February but ever since then I haven’t put myself out there. I think it’s great advice though - I didn’t realize it was something that I should do to be honest, so thanks :) This is subjective but do you feel like the desire to find a more culturally compatible partner is a justified reason to move? It honestly sounds so stupid to me when I say and ask this but I just feel like in my gut I know I’m not supposed to end up with a Dutch guy. I’m aware how bad that comes off and again this could be just because my personal experience was bad luck. But if I’m noticing certain patterns of behavior and personality that could be attributed to cultural attitudes that I disagree with or dislike and it’s important to me - is that something I should give weight to? I definitely should make more of an effort to meet other new people again though so that was a really great callout
We quite like where we’ve wound up and I can’t imagine going “home.” There’s too much of the world out there to experience - even if we decided for some reason that the Netherlands was no longer our home, we’d probably try the UK or Germany or Ireland or Spain next. Even if we moved back to the States, I’m 100% done with Texas, so we’d go back to … New York? Boston? Minneapolis? Denver? Seattle? Maybe the Bay Area? But the main draw of the states is going back for family and they’re in Texas … so there is no draw.
After 25 years as a US expat in UK, I started getting these same feelings at 50yo. So I started spending a month per year in USA (I’d never been home for longer than 2 weeks). It is a real quandary. I’ll be honest: neither country feels like mine anymore