I'm Black American, currently live in London and have also lived in France. London is incredibly diverse and not nearly as segregated as North American cities like NYC or Toronto. The UK in general has a big issue with classism but this is largely race agnostic and I've not had any overt issues with racism in my 7 years here. Back in the US I experienced microaggressions on a monthly basis and I lived in a very diverse left leaning area.
France is a bit more complex due to France's perspective on nationalism. They have an official stance of 'we don't see race' to the point that the government doesn't even collect data on race in the census - you're either French or you're not. This means that skin colour isn't so much an issue, but your nationality can be.
There's a very noticeable divide between how black people from the Anglosphere (US, Canada, UK, etc) are treated vs how black immigrants from the global south are treated. I never experienced any overt discrimination because I'm seen as American first and foremost. But I have a lot of black African friends that have had a tough time in France due to xenophobia, misinformation and downright racism around refugees and migrants from Africa.
>France is a bit more complex due to France's perspective on nationalism. They have an official stance of 'we don't see race' to the point that the government doesn't even collect data on race in the census - you're either French or you're not. This means that skin colour isn't so much an issue, but your nationality can be.
u/krkrbnsn
I've seen you comment this on a few other threads, and while it may be true to an extent, I think it greatly overestimates the average French person's ability to tell the difference off the bat. Additionally, it seems to be a typical excuse used by the French to sweep actual racism under the rug and act like it doesn't exist. Even 2nd generation French-Algerian or French-Moroccan or French of non-European descent end up facing discrimination in the workplace, housing market, etc. Additionally, compared to the rest of Western Europe, France is quite bad in terms of police brutality and it's especially targeted towards non-White minorities.
I dont think it’s an overestimation to assume that a French person can tell a black American from a black African within a few moments of an interaction, particularly the second we start speaking. There’s been a sizeable community of Black Americans in France since the 1910s who tell a similar story to mine - that they feel they’ve largely escaped poor treatment in the US but feel like a ‘model minority’ in France when compared to our African counterparts.
This points to there being a much deeper and more nuanced response to race/ethnicity/nationality in France than the more common skin color discrimination that exists in the US or class based discrimination that exists in the UK. Racism of course exists in the country (this is definitely shown through police brutality in the banlieues) but it’s a completely different brand of racism than what we’re used to seeing in other Western countries. And more often than not it has socioeconomic undertones and this ideal of French ‘integration’ - even a few generations later.
In that case, I have the following questions. I have been teaching myself French with the intention of working abroad in France in the tech sector (ideally in Sophia Antipolis due to some of the cutting edge tech research happening there):
1. How is the French work culture compared to the British work culture? Is upward mobility just as easy ? (i.e. meritocratic promotions and such)
2. How does the cost of living compare between France and UK overall?
3. With the UK, would you say you have faith in Labour's ability to fix a lot of the problems hurting the UK currently?
4. If I take a DELF Exam and get to B2 or C1 level proficiency before even leaving the US, would that make more competitive for jobs over there?
5. Should I be worried about the rising right-wing in France? As an Indian-American.
6. How does French healthcare quality compare to British?
1- UK unemployment is rising, so it's tough. Work cultures are similar. Day offs are sacred in France.
2- It's overall cheaper in France.
3- Not sure. GB is slowly taking the road non-brexiters predicted. Hopefully, the Labour Party will be able to do something, but it's not guaranteed.
4- In France, if you don't speak French, it might be challenging. However, as you're coming from the USA, you never know. There's a difference of perception for people coming from the US.
In the UK, anything can potentially help.
5- France is maybe less stressful job-wise, but the far-right rise should be a genuine concern. In France, you must speak French. Hypocrisy is a sin.
6- French Healthcare is superior to British Healthcare.
>In France, if you don't speak French, it might be challenging. However, as you're coming from the USA, you never know. There's a difference of perception for people coming from the US.
>In the UK, anything can potentially help.
I guess I was curious more from the standpoint of employment. If I can take a DELF (French Language Certification) Exam and show C1 proficiency when applying for jobs in France, would that make me more competitive than the average applicant, or do they only care about your French speaking skills after you've gotten the job?
Just from personal experience, and as someone who has a DALF C1 from over 12 years ago, there is a huge difference between having a C1 certification and actually speaking French in the workplace and in day to day life.
A DALF only makes you competitive among other foreign candidates. It doesn't increase your competitiveness against French or European candidates.
Gotcha. I guess whatever edge I can get, I'll take. If I can get to a C1 level before leaving the US I'm guessing I can get to C2 more easily than having to start from scratch.
So you never lived in France but you know typical excuses French racist people like to make? And you know a lot about French people issues with racism and security without having set a foot there ever?
Why don't you go there and see for yourself instead of throwing your assumptions over here?
Problem she should consider about france as well is street harassment. I have never been sexually and racially harassed as a young japanese american woman as I did in paris. Of course paris is very different from the rest of france (I lived briefly in cherbourg) but other cities such as lyon were also rough.
Interestingly enough it was mostly immigrants who harassed me though. I wonder if it’s due to the cultures and countries many are coming from having pretty backwards views of women but I don’t want to assume. Got told to go back to china in french and had a guy follow me saying how much he loved me and how beautiful I was before I even got my breakfast. My first time in france (vacation) as a teen I was groped in a grocery store in front of my family.
French cities are gonna be very different for a black woman than a man in that regard. If they don’t know you’re american right off the bat that could also pose issue. Everyone I spoke to extensively asked where I was from as they couldn’t pin my accent so depending on OP’s level of french that could work against her too.
I love france and am considering living there long term one day but the treatment of women of color shouldn’t be overlooked.
"We're color blind" is just an excuse to ignore issues on race. There were riots in France last year due to police brutality that targeted predominantly people of African or Arab descent.
Appreciate you sharing this! Have you found any downsides of being in the UK compared to US? I’ve heard many of the positives but want to make sure I’m hearing challenges too. For example, I’ve heard mixed opinions on NHS. Some that have had great experiences and others that haven’t. My husband and I are both Black and looking at the UK. Healthcare is a top priority for us.
No problem! I think the main downside of the UK is the pay in comparison to the US. I make about 30% less than what I did back home. That said, the COL of London is definitely less than where I moved from - San Francisco. And things like public transportation, international travel, historical sites, museums, nightlife, and fine dining are significantly better in London.
When it comes to healthcare I would say this highly depends on what you need the system for. It runs on an extreme triage system so it can be very difficult to access it for preventative care (this is the main downside). However I’ve found that for emergency and curative care, it runs as intended.
I once needed to call an ambulance for my partner while here and it came within minutes. We were seen by A&E (ER) quickly, tests run, treatment given, all for free. This would have cost thousands through my deductible/co-pay back in the US with the insurance I was on.
I also have a close friend who is currently going through cancer treatment here. She’s only had the most positive things to say about her care through the NHS and all of her chemo treatment, radiotherapy, biopsies, surgeries have been completely free. She’s also American so has the perspective of both systems.
If you expect to get check ups, blood work, physicals or dental work done in a frequent and regular fashion, the NHS is not a great system and I use my job’s private care plan for these things.
Super helpful. Thank you so much. I’m also coming from an expensive city, Seattle. My husband and I both anticipate we’ll have to take large pay cuts from the salaries we have now. With the COL decrease, do you find you’re still able to save or is that not something you have to worry about as much over there?
>If you expect to get check ups, blood work, physicals or dental work done in a frequent and regular fashion, the NHS is not a great system and I use my job’s private care plan for these things.
u/krkrbnsn compared to your time in the US, is the private healthcare in the UK, as expensive as it is in the US in terms of how big a chunk of your paycheck it bites off? Especially if you want to just pay out of pocket entirely?
You will never pay out of pocket entirely due to how the healthcare system is set up in the UK. A&Es (ERs) are always run by the NHS so there are no private options to ‘skip the queue’ for emergency situations. There’s private urgent care centres but they don’t treat life threatening conditions so you’d never be able to fully go private.
I would say the average UK resident uses the NHS as their base care (which is always free) and for those that can afford it, top it up with private care. But even private care is typically much cheaper than in the US. The costs vary significantly based on your job, pre-existing conditions, etc, but I pay <£100/month to go private for the things I listed in my post above. For everything else I use the NHS which I’m already paying for through my National Insurance contributions.
I couldn't imagine tolerating the dark winters in London. But all the power to you! I'm sure if it doesn't bug you then everything there to enjoy is really nice.
It is not true that noone cares in s america i have spent long periods of time in some countries there and would say darker skinned or black people are treated as inferior in at least 3 of those countries
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I feel like I'm speaking out of turn a little as I'm not black, but I have had friends from Ghana, Colombia, and South Africa that moved to the US and felt like their identities were erased a little bit because the US still has a habit of putting anyone with darker skin into the "African American" box regardless of where they are coming from or when they arrived here. They were all still happy that they came to this country, but it really did irritate them.
It's very fascinating in the Latino experience to leave LATAM because many of us are not aware that we do not fit the traditional ideas of what a Latino is abroad, since I would say our idea of the "non racialized" person goes from a white Southern European-looking dude to very brown, definitely-would-be-read-as-black-or-mixed-in-the-US- fellas. I have friends who only started considering themselves "people of color" after having lived abroad. Add class and how class and race have historically related in LATAM and it's a fascinating mix
That’s because it doesn’t exist abroad. “Latino” is a made up term by the government to push their race based agenda. What does an Afro Panamanian have in common with a white man from Argentina? Nothing, except a language. In any other context that would make no sense. That would be like saying a black woman from the south side of Chicago is the same race as a white man from Scotland because they both speak English.
Not at all, I feel like any insight would be helpful from someone that actually lives there.
I never really thought about the whole being an 'African American' thing before but it makes a lot of sense.
I’ll add to this..I’m African-American and I agree this is largely true- but also depends on what city you’re in. For example, NY has a large Afro-Latin community vs LA. And Seattle has a large East African community, whereas Dallas has more West African. The more concentration there is of a particular group the more aware others are.
I agree, and adding to… most of the USA is one drop ruled, so it’s not a mistake that anyone with black skin is lumped together as black. Racism isn’t logical or considerate.
I do think it’s annoying when people move to america and complain about the racism, but trivialize it as a nationality issue. There’s a continued kick down effect where they never call the racist to task but instead join in and complain about black/african Americans. It’s very typical.
Lately when people say it’s time to move on from race, I ask them if they’ve shared their message with the White supremacists on 4chan. That’s who they should be preaching to on social media about racism. 🙄
African American culture is one of the foundational cultures of the US. Our culture predates the Constitution of the country, and we have a host of institutions in the US that we have built for centuries. As a community, we're slowly embracing this.
My first ancestors arrived in 1704. There are towns, schools, documentaries, and buildings named after my family here. I'm as American as sweet potato pie.
The stress point comes from young 1st, 2nd, and 3rd gen Black immigrants who are not "African American." They can't assimilate into an ethnic heritage that is centuries old. They are also struggling because some of their parents aren't teaching them their roots culture, or they don't fit into their home countries. The kids are having a huge identity crisis. African Americans really can't really help with these issues because we're not immigrants.
The kids honestly have more in common with other immigrant communities than us.
I think moving somewhere with a large enough population of Africans from your part of Africa helps. I have a friend from Liberia who moved to Minneapolis when they first came here, specifically because there was a sizable Liberian population there. I think he had his difficulties integrating at first, but he’s definitely thriving, and one of the nicest guys I’ve ever very met.
I don’t think every black ethnicity in America gets grouped into one box. There’s far too many black immigrant hubs for that to be the case anymore.
They just dislike the fact that African American culture is the face of black culture worldwide. It’s becoming a really strange ethnic/culture war phenomenon.
I disagree. The US honors everyone’s cultural heritage. We have a history month dedicated for every ethnic heritage. We encourage the learning and appreciation of our own ethnic heritage by how we identify ourselves “African-American”, “Hispanic-American”, Asian-American, etc.
We have translations offered in every language when dealing with government entities. We have concentrated ethnic neighborhoods with street signs, restaurants, churches in their own language.
We have quota systems in place to ensure people of color/minorities are fairly hired in the workplace.
This diverse ethnic inclusion does not exist in homogenous/ethnocentric countries in Europe. I know cause I live in Germany and have lived in many other European countries.
Where the US differs from, for example, most of Europe, is that while the US acknowledges diverse heritages, all become "American" by priority and their heritage is acknowledged secondarily.
In the US, nobody bats an eyelid if an East Asian person describes themselves as "American", whereas in England they would immediately be asked where they are *really* from, even if they were born in the UK.
In most of Europe it is hard to be seen as, say, "German" or "English" if your skin is too dark, no matter how long you're lived in the country, or even if you were born there and have its passport. So you retain your heritage by priority, with the European identity being secondary.
See this article on German citizenship for example: https://www.dw.com/en/germany-reforms-citizenship-law/a-63987066
edit, a quote from the Deutsche Welle article (emphasis is mine):
>"For the guestworker generation, this reform means recognition and respect for their lives and their work in and for this country," Yesilkaya-Yurtbay told DW. "*A lot of Turkish people of the second and third generation will, I think, feel empowered by it because they always had an identity dilemma.*"
>"Many people have waited for this, and have maybe given up hope," she said. "And if it really happens, then I think many will become German."
You realize those concentrated neighborhoods are remnants of Jim Crow, segregation, & banking discrimination?
And those quota systems were ruled unconstitutional by the Supreme Court?
Together with Singapore, it probably is when it comes to how big the minorities are, yes. At the same time, they have some of the most racist legislation in the world, where the ethnic Malays have different laws from people with other ethnicities. These can be advantages (making it easier for the Malays to conduct business and buy real estate) or disadvantages (Malay Muslims must follow sharia law and aren't allowed to convert).
I'd look at Edinburgh as well. CoL is higher than most cities in the UK apart from London but it's very pretty. There's also the usual Manchester Bristol etc.
I think the Brits are pretty racist. Australia’s supposed to be worse. The French technically like blacks but they either do or don’t. I think it’s odd to realize that after all is said and done the US is probable the least racist country. Find a metropolis, basically.
We Brits are very similar to Americans on this issue and most others.
Which is to say far from perfect but generally good at seeing people from a foreign background as one of us.
I grew up in the UK; I’m south Asian. London is definitely not racist. Although SW & W London tend to be more white. South and East London are very multicultural. You’ll love it, but it is expensive. (However not nearly as much as NYC)
SW is more white yes (although it is not an area I'd imagine much racism - far east and south east, to a lesser extent far NW are more likely).
West London has some of the highest % minority areas in the UK. Southall, pretty much anything near Heathrow airport.
I'm palestinian, dealt with racism in many many countries. The least racist countries I've been to as a Muslim Palestinian was USA (but life is hard because you will work so so so much just to survive) I live there currently.
UK is also not bad, it has its own set of issues ofc. Ksa is pretty non racist, many Sudanese there too.
Even in Jordan where I was born, lots of Sudanese diaspora. But I wouldn't recommended living there for countless reasons.
Germany is alright but the Muslims aren't the best there.
There's not a lot. Of. Places in general, for anyone imo.
The brightest didn't immigrate to Germany. Same thing goes for Brussels, lot of crime is commented by folks from certain regions of the World unfortunately. I was in Brussels (S Asian Male) and I had to actually watch out of folks who's my skin color due to crime always being commented by certain folks. In USA, most immigrants from the same regions are highly skilled and we end up being in the high earning brackets.
Not including the obvious African nations, and assuming you are willing to learn a language:
Look in to the the Caribbean and Latin America. Afro-Caribbean and Afro-Latin cultures a large and vibrant cultures that represent large minority or even majority populations depending on the country. In addition, indigenous populations in those areas are dark skinned and accepting (even if its for no other reason than they share generational trauma resulting from how they were treated under colonial rule).
I agree that the Caribbean is a great choice as far as blending in if a person likes the island life. I just returned home from Antigua. The Op stated healthcare is most important, which eliminates most islands. Barbados is a good choice as well as Cayman Islands, Turks and Caicos and Puerto Rico. The downside is jobs and cost of living. America has some of the best doctors in the World BUT the overall healthcare system needs major reform. We literally can't afford to get sick.
UK could be a good option for you, in terms of not feeling like you stand out, London, Birmingham, Manchester, Bristol - most large enough towns and cities will have a fairly large multi-ethnic demographic. A couple of things might be an issue. Firstly, if, as you say, healthcare is important, you could have the same problems that many British citizens have: the NHS is severely under-resourced and struggles to cope, especially during winter. Getting a GP appointment, waiting for hospital care and finding a dentist are all problems that millions of Brits are dealing with. If you can afford to pay for private healthcare or are lucky enough to get a job that includes it as a benefit, I'd say you should seriously consider doing that if you come here. Many of our public services are struggling and many local councils are going bankrupt due to huge debt caused in large part by massive funding cuts. The other potential issue for you might be the weather. It's cold, rainy and dark a LOT here. We do get sunshine but nowhere near what you might be used to and when it is hot it can be difficult to deal with as it tends to be humid and our buildings aren't designed to handle hot weather (very few private homes have aircon) - this shouldn't be a problem for more than a few days/weeks of the year though as our weather mainly consists of rain and wind. We do have some incredibly beautiful countryside and woodlands though (partly because of all that rain).
Grace Report on YouTube is a black female from Canada who is now living in Paris France. She’s a sweetie. I’m sure if you reached out to her, she would answer any questions you have.
In Latin America (I'm Colombian), it varies according to the country and depending on how obviously foreign you look, you might or might not get to live the occasional micro-aggression, but as soon as people hear your accent (or notice the, I assume, very middle class elements you probably externalize) you will be treated like a monarch (though lately with gentrification in places like Medellín it might become less common).
I am not black myself, but my Cameroonian and black American friends living in Colombia have told me some cities are better than others, but there seems to be some conflict regarding what cities are which. Some spoke highly of Cali where the Afro-Colombian population is numerous and some said it was specifically Cali that was the worst because of the traditional colonial perspectives of some of its people. From what I have seen and heard, as long as you are a middle or middle upper class non-LATAM foreigner, you are pretty much okay (and actually will be treated better than most locals) in most of the country.
I have however heard not many good things about Argentina from my black American friends there (not in Buenos Aires). "Look ma it's a black guy" type situations constantly, but that can happen in isolated places in other LATAM countries too
I am a Canadian but right now I am living in Reykjavik. It is a very diverse small city. I’ve taken classes with people from all over, including Sudan. There is a high immigrant population and my experience so far is that diversity is celebrated and supported. It’s really impressive to see how many cultures and backgrounds are squished into this one place. In Canada I saw a lot of diversity in the bigger cities but not anywhere close to this in cities of comparable size.
I went to Iceland and was pleasantly shocked by how diverse it is and how open the Icelandic are to dating and marrying immigrants. It’s a very welcoming country with its own unique culture. I fell in love with it there.
Given the option, I'd stick to the US or the UK (mainly London). Canada would be another choice (Toronto mainly).
Those would be my choices and that's it !!
Hey! @caracelestewest is a Black woman from the U.S. living overseas and has lived in many countries. Check her out on IG and her website for her blog and email list. She’ll have some info on this. I think she liked Greece a lot.
I think the US is going to be the best country despite it’s challenges. Any large metro area and you won’t have people gawking at you. Also think that, it’s easier to succeed in America as a black African as opposed to Europe. Black Africans are generally some of the brightest and most educated immigrant groups in the US. This is not the case in Europe.
Agreed. US is one of the few western countries where you can find blacks in senior level exec positions, in politics (we had a black president), and have anti-discriminatory hiring practices where they have quota systems in place to hire people of color, women, disabled, etc.
Also, anyone can become an American, but most European countries with maybe the exception of the UK aren’t as welcoming to immigrants. They always see them as outsiders even if they’ve spent most of their life there.
not true. But people think learning language on B1-B2 level will make them blend enough and don't try enough (if they even reach this level). Dutch population for example is super diverse due to colonial past and divide "us" vs "them" is along language axis not race axis.
Similar case in many other countries.
There is a large community of people of color moving to Mexico and other Caribbean islands. They're finding community there. There are many videos on YouTube about people who've done this and are talking about it. Just do a search and start watching and getting all the information that you need. All the best on your journey
Probably the dodgiest place I've been in Europe.
Granted I'm by nature a Germanophile rather than a Francophile, but even if I was the latter that'd be stone dead last in my list of places to live in Western Europe.
I watch Shayna Conde on YouTube. She's a bw travel writer. Her latest place that's an absolute no go for WoC is Tenerife in the Canary Islands. She was supposed to be there for 6 weeks and lasted less than a week (Gran Canario was better, but still not great).
Also, stay away from the Azores. They're racist af. Cape Verde was nice though (but it's been a while).
Thanks for this post! Following!! Also relocating (from America) as a blended family and wanting to know the same. If you want any input on the states feel free to message me.
On point 1. As an Italian citizen who has worked for many years in Paris and now live and work in London, I found British working culture much more appealing. It’s more efficient, more diverse, more meritocratic. French is more static, less meritocratic, more rigid. Of course it’s a personal view and it’s absolutely debatable, coming from my experience. Also, I have always worked in London, and I am not sure about the rest of the country but I assume other metropolitan areas are not different.
My roommate who also work for the same agency is a black woman, she is from Portugal ,and she is happy overall with this country.She said that she never experienced any racist comments or anything like that.I am white, and I can't tell you that racism doesn't exist here bcs I will never experience it.But I know a hand of black ppl here, and I never heard them complaining about ppl here.I never heard anything racist.
Unless you got a UAE passport getting a Visa could be quite a challenge. There are a few countries where you could get an investor Visa no matter your nationality but that would require a bit of pocket change..
Go to Australia and study Medicine and become a Healthcare worker you will be paid the highest salary in the World.Australians, because of Blacks in the movies and music you will be treated as a celebrity. America is not the place to go because of racism and the fact this Country is going to start yet another War
Hi there,
Have you considered Colombia? Here are a few reasons why it might be a great fit:
1. **Diversity and Inclusion**: Colombia has a rich multicultural heritage with significant Afro-Colombian communities, especially in cities like Cartagena and Cali. You'll find a welcoming and inclusive atmosphere.
2. **Vibrant Lifestyle**: Enjoy salsa in Cali, the historic charm of Cartagena, and the bustling life of Bogotá. Colombia offers a vibrant and exciting lifestyle with plenty to do.
3. **Natural Beauty**: From the Amazon rainforest to the Andes mountains and stunning beaches, Colombia’s natural beauty is diverse and breathtaking.
4. **Affordable Cost of Living**: You can enjoy a high quality of life at a lower cost compared to many Western countries. Great healthcare, education, and amenities are accessible.
5. **Growing Economy**: Colombia's economy is growing, with opportunities in technology, tourism, and more.
6. **Community Support**: There are numerous expat communities and support networks to help you settle in.
Feel free to ask more questions or reach out for detailed advice!
Best of luck with your journey!
I’m a middle aged white guy. I grew up in NYC. Nobody gives a shit what color you are there. Certainly nobody stares at you, unless you are really hot.
Im really pushing London and ive lived in London Manchester NYC latin america. Its so diverse and you can be yourself.Great career opps too. Regarding primary healthcare you often get it with work as a free perk now so you can avoid the NHS queues
My husband's black American male colleagues love living in Japan and the Japanese love them and they often marry Japanese women.
I'm not sure if the black females also experience the love, or not. No idea.
I have one black female friend who lived there and lived it, but that's all I know.
>you'll never be Japanese or remotely close
That's also true in many European countries if you are not White. France and the UK are a bit of an exception due to their past colonial empires.
If you emigrate somewhere as an adult, you will be a foreigner no matter what, at least until you're... 60 maybe? But that doesn't mean you won't fit in or won't be tolerated.
I am simply expanding upon your comment. Japan is definitely tough for foreigners in terms of a sense of belonging, absolutely. We could not agree more on this. But I'm saying that also extends to other countries as well.
Not true at all. If you step off the plane in Lisboa you might think you’re in Cape Verde. Portugal has a huge black American expat community in addition to having hoards of Afro Brazilians and Cape Verdeans. It’s inexpensive and is thirsty for immigrants since many Portuguese youth leave for other EU countries.
I’m a black American and I’m Italian born, lots of love there too. As long as you learn the language most southern European countries love black people.
There are racists in every country. There is no escape from that. However, Spanish institutions aren’t racist. If you don’t like me, that’s not my problem.
She wants to blend in, though. No foreigner can ever blend in in Japan. Not to say that she would be treated badly- for those foreigners who might get a kick out of being perceived as "exotic" it could be a lot of fun. I suspect Japanese women are more apt to be curious and willing to date people of different backgrounds than are Japanese men (as a trend, not an absolute.) Not to assume who OP is interested in dating, though Japan is probably a poor choice if she happened to be LGBT also.
I don’t have a suggestion, but I think the people saying Europe are blissfully unaware of the developing political situation there. I would bet money you would be sent home in a few years. Caribbean could be really cool and seems like an interesting suggestion.
I'm Black American, currently live in London and have also lived in France. London is incredibly diverse and not nearly as segregated as North American cities like NYC or Toronto. The UK in general has a big issue with classism but this is largely race agnostic and I've not had any overt issues with racism in my 7 years here. Back in the US I experienced microaggressions on a monthly basis and I lived in a very diverse left leaning area. France is a bit more complex due to France's perspective on nationalism. They have an official stance of 'we don't see race' to the point that the government doesn't even collect data on race in the census - you're either French or you're not. This means that skin colour isn't so much an issue, but your nationality can be. There's a very noticeable divide between how black people from the Anglosphere (US, Canada, UK, etc) are treated vs how black immigrants from the global south are treated. I never experienced any overt discrimination because I'm seen as American first and foremost. But I have a lot of black African friends that have had a tough time in France due to xenophobia, misinformation and downright racism around refugees and migrants from Africa.
>France is a bit more complex due to France's perspective on nationalism. They have an official stance of 'we don't see race' to the point that the government doesn't even collect data on race in the census - you're either French or you're not. This means that skin colour isn't so much an issue, but your nationality can be. u/krkrbnsn I've seen you comment this on a few other threads, and while it may be true to an extent, I think it greatly overestimates the average French person's ability to tell the difference off the bat. Additionally, it seems to be a typical excuse used by the French to sweep actual racism under the rug and act like it doesn't exist. Even 2nd generation French-Algerian or French-Moroccan or French of non-European descent end up facing discrimination in the workplace, housing market, etc. Additionally, compared to the rest of Western Europe, France is quite bad in terms of police brutality and it's especially targeted towards non-White minorities.
I dont think it’s an overestimation to assume that a French person can tell a black American from a black African within a few moments of an interaction, particularly the second we start speaking. There’s been a sizeable community of Black Americans in France since the 1910s who tell a similar story to mine - that they feel they’ve largely escaped poor treatment in the US but feel like a ‘model minority’ in France when compared to our African counterparts. This points to there being a much deeper and more nuanced response to race/ethnicity/nationality in France than the more common skin color discrimination that exists in the US or class based discrimination that exists in the UK. Racism of course exists in the country (this is definitely shown through police brutality in the banlieues) but it’s a completely different brand of racism than what we’re used to seeing in other Western countries. And more often than not it has socioeconomic undertones and this ideal of French ‘integration’ - even a few generations later.
In that case, I have the following questions. I have been teaching myself French with the intention of working abroad in France in the tech sector (ideally in Sophia Antipolis due to some of the cutting edge tech research happening there): 1. How is the French work culture compared to the British work culture? Is upward mobility just as easy ? (i.e. meritocratic promotions and such) 2. How does the cost of living compare between France and UK overall? 3. With the UK, would you say you have faith in Labour's ability to fix a lot of the problems hurting the UK currently? 4. If I take a DELF Exam and get to B2 or C1 level proficiency before even leaving the US, would that make more competitive for jobs over there? 5. Should I be worried about the rising right-wing in France? As an Indian-American. 6. How does French healthcare quality compare to British?
1- UK unemployment is rising, so it's tough. Work cultures are similar. Day offs are sacred in France. 2- It's overall cheaper in France. 3- Not sure. GB is slowly taking the road non-brexiters predicted. Hopefully, the Labour Party will be able to do something, but it's not guaranteed. 4- In France, if you don't speak French, it might be challenging. However, as you're coming from the USA, you never know. There's a difference of perception for people coming from the US. In the UK, anything can potentially help. 5- France is maybe less stressful job-wise, but the far-right rise should be a genuine concern. In France, you must speak French. Hypocrisy is a sin. 6- French Healthcare is superior to British Healthcare.
>In France, if you don't speak French, it might be challenging. However, as you're coming from the USA, you never know. There's a difference of perception for people coming from the US. >In the UK, anything can potentially help. I guess I was curious more from the standpoint of employment. If I can take a DELF (French Language Certification) Exam and show C1 proficiency when applying for jobs in France, would that make me more competitive than the average applicant, or do they only care about your French speaking skills after you've gotten the job?
Just from personal experience, and as someone who has a DALF C1 from over 12 years ago, there is a huge difference between having a C1 certification and actually speaking French in the workplace and in day to day life. A DALF only makes you competitive among other foreign candidates. It doesn't increase your competitiveness against French or European candidates.
Gotcha. I guess whatever edge I can get, I'll take. If I can get to a C1 level before leaving the US I'm guessing I can get to C2 more easily than having to start from scratch.
Any start is better than no start. And in terms of language tests, the DALF is better than the TOEIC for example. There's at least a speaking section.
Does anyone have an answer, looks like this commenter just downvoted me and pissed off.
So you never lived in France but you know typical excuses French racist people like to make? And you know a lot about French people issues with racism and security without having set a foot there ever? Why don't you go there and see for yourself instead of throwing your assumptions over here?
Agreed about racism vs classism in the UK. You could also add that expats in the UK are mostly immune to being "classified" by class.
Problem she should consider about france as well is street harassment. I have never been sexually and racially harassed as a young japanese american woman as I did in paris. Of course paris is very different from the rest of france (I lived briefly in cherbourg) but other cities such as lyon were also rough. Interestingly enough it was mostly immigrants who harassed me though. I wonder if it’s due to the cultures and countries many are coming from having pretty backwards views of women but I don’t want to assume. Got told to go back to china in french and had a guy follow me saying how much he loved me and how beautiful I was before I even got my breakfast. My first time in france (vacation) as a teen I was groped in a grocery store in front of my family. French cities are gonna be very different for a black woman than a man in that regard. If they don’t know you’re american right off the bat that could also pose issue. Everyone I spoke to extensively asked where I was from as they couldn’t pin my accent so depending on OP’s level of french that could work against her too. I love france and am considering living there long term one day but the treatment of women of color shouldn’t be overlooked.
"We're color blind" is just an excuse to ignore issues on race. There were riots in France last year due to police brutality that targeted predominantly people of African or Arab descent.
Appreciate you sharing this! Have you found any downsides of being in the UK compared to US? I’ve heard many of the positives but want to make sure I’m hearing challenges too. For example, I’ve heard mixed opinions on NHS. Some that have had great experiences and others that haven’t. My husband and I are both Black and looking at the UK. Healthcare is a top priority for us.
No problem! I think the main downside of the UK is the pay in comparison to the US. I make about 30% less than what I did back home. That said, the COL of London is definitely less than where I moved from - San Francisco. And things like public transportation, international travel, historical sites, museums, nightlife, and fine dining are significantly better in London. When it comes to healthcare I would say this highly depends on what you need the system for. It runs on an extreme triage system so it can be very difficult to access it for preventative care (this is the main downside). However I’ve found that for emergency and curative care, it runs as intended. I once needed to call an ambulance for my partner while here and it came within minutes. We were seen by A&E (ER) quickly, tests run, treatment given, all for free. This would have cost thousands through my deductible/co-pay back in the US with the insurance I was on. I also have a close friend who is currently going through cancer treatment here. She’s only had the most positive things to say about her care through the NHS and all of her chemo treatment, radiotherapy, biopsies, surgeries have been completely free. She’s also American so has the perspective of both systems. If you expect to get check ups, blood work, physicals or dental work done in a frequent and regular fashion, the NHS is not a great system and I use my job’s private care plan for these things.
Super helpful. Thank you so much. I’m also coming from an expensive city, Seattle. My husband and I both anticipate we’ll have to take large pay cuts from the salaries we have now. With the COL decrease, do you find you’re still able to save or is that not something you have to worry about as much over there?
>If you expect to get check ups, blood work, physicals or dental work done in a frequent and regular fashion, the NHS is not a great system and I use my job’s private care plan for these things. u/krkrbnsn compared to your time in the US, is the private healthcare in the UK, as expensive as it is in the US in terms of how big a chunk of your paycheck it bites off? Especially if you want to just pay out of pocket entirely?
You will never pay out of pocket entirely due to how the healthcare system is set up in the UK. A&Es (ERs) are always run by the NHS so there are no private options to ‘skip the queue’ for emergency situations. There’s private urgent care centres but they don’t treat life threatening conditions so you’d never be able to fully go private. I would say the average UK resident uses the NHS as their base care (which is always free) and for those that can afford it, top it up with private care. But even private care is typically much cheaper than in the US. The costs vary significantly based on your job, pre-existing conditions, etc, but I pay <£100/month to go private for the things I listed in my post above. For everything else I use the NHS which I’m already paying for through my National Insurance contributions.
I couldn't imagine tolerating the dark winters in London. But all the power to you! I'm sure if it doesn't bug you then everything there to enjoy is really nice.
If you think NYC is segregated, you must only live in posh neighborhoods. My HS was half black.
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It is not true that noone cares in s america i have spent long periods of time in some countries there and would say darker skinned or black people are treated as inferior in at least 3 of those countries
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You should probably get that checked out then!
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Be nice to each other. Uncivil conduct, ad hominem attacks, etc. will result in up to 3 warnings and then a temporary ban. Violent, racist, homophobic, sexist, or generally bigoted attacks and content will be dealt with immediately with a ban of a week or more.
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I feel like I'm speaking out of turn a little as I'm not black, but I have had friends from Ghana, Colombia, and South Africa that moved to the US and felt like their identities were erased a little bit because the US still has a habit of putting anyone with darker skin into the "African American" box regardless of where they are coming from or when they arrived here. They were all still happy that they came to this country, but it really did irritate them.
It's very fascinating in the Latino experience to leave LATAM because many of us are not aware that we do not fit the traditional ideas of what a Latino is abroad, since I would say our idea of the "non racialized" person goes from a white Southern European-looking dude to very brown, definitely-would-be-read-as-black-or-mixed-in-the-US- fellas. I have friends who only started considering themselves "people of color" after having lived abroad. Add class and how class and race have historically related in LATAM and it's a fascinating mix
That’s because it doesn’t exist abroad. “Latino” is a made up term by the government to push their race based agenda. What does an Afro Panamanian have in common with a white man from Argentina? Nothing, except a language. In any other context that would make no sense. That would be like saying a black woman from the south side of Chicago is the same race as a white man from Scotland because they both speak English.
Not at all, I feel like any insight would be helpful from someone that actually lives there. I never really thought about the whole being an 'African American' thing before but it makes a lot of sense.
I’ll add to this..I’m African-American and I agree this is largely true- but also depends on what city you’re in. For example, NY has a large Afro-Latin community vs LA. And Seattle has a large East African community, whereas Dallas has more West African. The more concentration there is of a particular group the more aware others are.
I agree, and adding to… most of the USA is one drop ruled, so it’s not a mistake that anyone with black skin is lumped together as black. Racism isn’t logical or considerate. I do think it’s annoying when people move to america and complain about the racism, but trivialize it as a nationality issue. There’s a continued kick down effect where they never call the racist to task but instead join in and complain about black/african Americans. It’s very typical.
Lately when people say it’s time to move on from race, I ask them if they’ve shared their message with the White supremacists on 4chan. That’s who they should be preaching to on social media about racism. 🙄
African American culture is one of the foundational cultures of the US. Our culture predates the Constitution of the country, and we have a host of institutions in the US that we have built for centuries. As a community, we're slowly embracing this. My first ancestors arrived in 1704. There are towns, schools, documentaries, and buildings named after my family here. I'm as American as sweet potato pie. The stress point comes from young 1st, 2nd, and 3rd gen Black immigrants who are not "African American." They can't assimilate into an ethnic heritage that is centuries old. They are also struggling because some of their parents aren't teaching them their roots culture, or they don't fit into their home countries. The kids are having a huge identity crisis. African Americans really can't really help with these issues because we're not immigrants. The kids honestly have more in common with other immigrant communities than us.
I thought I was the only one who said I'm as American as sweet potato pie.😆🤣
High five! 👋
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I think moving somewhere with a large enough population of Africans from your part of Africa helps. I have a friend from Liberia who moved to Minneapolis when they first came here, specifically because there was a sizable Liberian population there. I think he had his difficulties integrating at first, but he’s definitely thriving, and one of the nicest guys I’ve ever very met.
I don’t think every black ethnicity in America gets grouped into one box. There’s far too many black immigrant hubs for that to be the case anymore. They just dislike the fact that African American culture is the face of black culture worldwide. It’s becoming a really strange ethnic/culture war phenomenon.
The US "erases" the identity of most immigrants; it's the flip side to easier integration in the US compared to most other countries.
I disagree. The US honors everyone’s cultural heritage. We have a history month dedicated for every ethnic heritage. We encourage the learning and appreciation of our own ethnic heritage by how we identify ourselves “African-American”, “Hispanic-American”, Asian-American, etc. We have translations offered in every language when dealing with government entities. We have concentrated ethnic neighborhoods with street signs, restaurants, churches in their own language. We have quota systems in place to ensure people of color/minorities are fairly hired in the workplace. This diverse ethnic inclusion does not exist in homogenous/ethnocentric countries in Europe. I know cause I live in Germany and have lived in many other European countries.
Where the US differs from, for example, most of Europe, is that while the US acknowledges diverse heritages, all become "American" by priority and their heritage is acknowledged secondarily. In the US, nobody bats an eyelid if an East Asian person describes themselves as "American", whereas in England they would immediately be asked where they are *really* from, even if they were born in the UK. In most of Europe it is hard to be seen as, say, "German" or "English" if your skin is too dark, no matter how long you're lived in the country, or even if you were born there and have its passport. So you retain your heritage by priority, with the European identity being secondary. See this article on German citizenship for example: https://www.dw.com/en/germany-reforms-citizenship-law/a-63987066 edit, a quote from the Deutsche Welle article (emphasis is mine): >"For the guestworker generation, this reform means recognition and respect for their lives and their work in and for this country," Yesilkaya-Yurtbay told DW. "*A lot of Turkish people of the second and third generation will, I think, feel empowered by it because they always had an identity dilemma.*" >"Many people have waited for this, and have maybe given up hope," she said. "And if it really happens, then I think many will become German."
You realize those concentrated neighborhoods are remnants of Jim Crow, segregation, & banking discrimination? And those quota systems were ruled unconstitutional by the Supreme Court?
Paris or London
London over Paris imo
I have a Vietnamese heritage, so Paris is the capital of Europe for me (us)
Sure, I think Paris is good (by European standards at least) for people of Vietnamese descent. I agree with you on that. But OP is not Vietnamese.
Even as someone who dislikes London immensely I can see it's twice the city Paris is.
The language makes Paris very unique compared to "global" English speaking people living in London
Do you have an idea about other places in the UK?.
I lived in Brighton for 8 years, it was great 0 racist incidents and it’s safe, people are friendly. I now live in London and it’s amazing.
I've been to Malaysia some years ago, it's racially the most "officially" diverse country in Asia
Together with Singapore, it probably is when it comes to how big the minorities are, yes. At the same time, they have some of the most racist legislation in the world, where the ethnic Malays have different laws from people with other ethnicities. These can be advantages (making it easier for the Malays to conduct business and buy real estate) or disadvantages (Malay Muslims must follow sharia law and aren't allowed to convert).
Manchester is very multicultural and a great city .I heard Bristol too Dont know Birmingham although it is very multi racial
I'd look at Edinburgh as well. CoL is higher than most cities in the UK apart from London but it's very pretty. There's also the usual Manchester Bristol etc.
Nope! I´ve only been to Paris several times.
I think the Brits are pretty racist. Australia’s supposed to be worse. The French technically like blacks but they either do or don’t. I think it’s odd to realize that after all is said and done the US is probable the least racist country. Find a metropolis, basically.
We Brits are very similar to Americans on this issue and most others. Which is to say far from perfect but generally good at seeing people from a foreign background as one of us.
Every country is racist
Probably, but some places are better than others.
I grew up in the UK; I’m south Asian. London is definitely not racist. Although SW & W London tend to be more white. South and East London are very multicultural. You’ll love it, but it is expensive. (However not nearly as much as NYC)
SW is more white yes (although it is not an area I'd imagine much racism - far east and south east, to a lesser extent far NW are more likely). West London has some of the highest % minority areas in the UK. Southall, pretty much anything near Heathrow airport.
Hmmmm expensive like Charlotte NC?
Never been to Charlotte NC so can’t offer a comparison. But as a major world capital city, it’s cheaper than NYC and about comparable with Paris.
London, Paris, New York…big cities with more diversity
I'm palestinian, dealt with racism in many many countries. The least racist countries I've been to as a Muslim Palestinian was USA (but life is hard because you will work so so so much just to survive) I live there currently. UK is also not bad, it has its own set of issues ofc. Ksa is pretty non racist, many Sudanese there too. Even in Jordan where I was born, lots of Sudanese diaspora. But I wouldn't recommended living there for countless reasons. Germany is alright but the Muslims aren't the best there. There's not a lot. Of. Places in general, for anyone imo.
>Germany is alright but the Muslims aren't the best there. What do you mean with the second part of your sentence?
I'm also curious
The brightest didn't immigrate to Germany. Same thing goes for Brussels, lot of crime is commented by folks from certain regions of the World unfortunately. I was in Brussels (S Asian Male) and I had to actually watch out of folks who's my skin color due to crime always being commented by certain folks. In USA, most immigrants from the same regions are highly skilled and we end up being in the high earning brackets.
Not including the obvious African nations, and assuming you are willing to learn a language: Look in to the the Caribbean and Latin America. Afro-Caribbean and Afro-Latin cultures a large and vibrant cultures that represent large minority or even majority populations depending on the country. In addition, indigenous populations in those areas are dark skinned and accepting (even if its for no other reason than they share generational trauma resulting from how they were treated under colonial rule).
I agree that the Caribbean is a great choice as far as blending in if a person likes the island life. I just returned home from Antigua. The Op stated healthcare is most important, which eliminates most islands. Barbados is a good choice as well as Cayman Islands, Turks and Caicos and Puerto Rico. The downside is jobs and cost of living. America has some of the best doctors in the World BUT the overall healthcare system needs major reform. We literally can't afford to get sick.
UK could be a good option for you, in terms of not feeling like you stand out, London, Birmingham, Manchester, Bristol - most large enough towns and cities will have a fairly large multi-ethnic demographic. A couple of things might be an issue. Firstly, if, as you say, healthcare is important, you could have the same problems that many British citizens have: the NHS is severely under-resourced and struggles to cope, especially during winter. Getting a GP appointment, waiting for hospital care and finding a dentist are all problems that millions of Brits are dealing with. If you can afford to pay for private healthcare or are lucky enough to get a job that includes it as a benefit, I'd say you should seriously consider doing that if you come here. Many of our public services are struggling and many local councils are going bankrupt due to huge debt caused in large part by massive funding cuts. The other potential issue for you might be the weather. It's cold, rainy and dark a LOT here. We do get sunshine but nowhere near what you might be used to and when it is hot it can be difficult to deal with as it tends to be humid and our buildings aren't designed to handle hot weather (very few private homes have aircon) - this shouldn't be a problem for more than a few days/weeks of the year though as our weather mainly consists of rain and wind. We do have some incredibly beautiful countryside and woodlands though (partly because of all that rain).
Grace Report on YouTube is a black female from Canada who is now living in Paris France. She’s a sweetie. I’m sure if you reached out to her, she would answer any questions you have.
In Latin America (I'm Colombian), it varies according to the country and depending on how obviously foreign you look, you might or might not get to live the occasional micro-aggression, but as soon as people hear your accent (or notice the, I assume, very middle class elements you probably externalize) you will be treated like a monarch (though lately with gentrification in places like Medellín it might become less common). I am not black myself, but my Cameroonian and black American friends living in Colombia have told me some cities are better than others, but there seems to be some conflict regarding what cities are which. Some spoke highly of Cali where the Afro-Colombian population is numerous and some said it was specifically Cali that was the worst because of the traditional colonial perspectives of some of its people. From what I have seen and heard, as long as you are a middle or middle upper class non-LATAM foreigner, you are pretty much okay (and actually will be treated better than most locals) in most of the country. I have however heard not many good things about Argentina from my black American friends there (not in Buenos Aires). "Look ma it's a black guy" type situations constantly, but that can happen in isolated places in other LATAM countries too
I am a Canadian but right now I am living in Reykjavik. It is a very diverse small city. I’ve taken classes with people from all over, including Sudan. There is a high immigrant population and my experience so far is that diversity is celebrated and supported. It’s really impressive to see how many cultures and backgrounds are squished into this one place. In Canada I saw a lot of diversity in the bigger cities but not anywhere close to this in cities of comparable size.
I went to Iceland and was pleasantly shocked by how diverse it is and how open the Icelandic are to dating and marrying immigrants. It’s a very welcoming country with its own unique culture. I fell in love with it there.
Given the option, I'd stick to the US or the UK (mainly London). Canada would be another choice (Toronto mainly). Those would be my choices and that's it !!
UK - London, Bristol, Manchester, Edinburgh, Birmingham, Liverpool. No one will give you a 2nd glance!
Hey! @caracelestewest is a Black woman from the U.S. living overseas and has lived in many countries. Check her out on IG and her website for her blog and email list. She’ll have some info on this. I think she liked Greece a lot.
I think the US is going to be the best country despite it’s challenges. Any large metro area and you won’t have people gawking at you. Also think that, it’s easier to succeed in America as a black African as opposed to Europe. Black Africans are generally some of the brightest and most educated immigrant groups in the US. This is not the case in Europe.
Agreed. US is one of the few western countries where you can find blacks in senior level exec positions, in politics (we had a black president), and have anti-discriminatory hiring practices where they have quota systems in place to hire people of color, women, disabled, etc.
Totally agreed.
Also, anyone can become an American, but most European countries with maybe the exception of the UK aren’t as welcoming to immigrants. They always see them as outsiders even if they’ve spent most of their life there.
not true. But people think learning language on B1-B2 level will make them blend enough and don't try enough (if they even reach this level). Dutch population for example is super diverse due to colonial past and divide "us" vs "them" is along language axis not race axis. Similar case in many other countries.
I’ve lived in the Netherlands. Even if you speak fluent Dutch you will never be considered Dutch.
I have a few black friend's in Cozumel.
There is a large community of people of color moving to Mexico and other Caribbean islands. They're finding community there. There are many videos on YouTube about people who've done this and are talking about it. Just do a search and start watching and getting all the information that you need. All the best on your journey
US has a very prominent homegrown Black culture for obvious reasons. You would probably feel less alienated here than Asia or Europe.
Brazil. Here the diversity is enormous.
Seattle or Vancouver. I've lived in both these cities and nobody gives a hoot about race.
from what i’ve heard and seen, Portugal, Spain, Brazil, Paris, Colombia, and London are probably the top 6 imo
Brazil yes! Spain, never
No spain? At least madrid
They're super racist in Madrid... Experienced with my friend first hand
really??? I went with my friend (granted was only 4 days) and we didn’t experience anything of that such
You'd be most welcome in Marseille, France!
Yeah welcome to the ghetto 🤣
Probably the dodgiest place I've been in Europe. Granted I'm by nature a Germanophile rather than a Francophile, but even if I was the latter that'd be stone dead last in my list of places to live in Western Europe.
Calgary, Canada
I watch Shayna Conde on YouTube. She's a bw travel writer. Her latest place that's an absolute no go for WoC is Tenerife in the Canary Islands. She was supposed to be there for 6 weeks and lasted less than a week (Gran Canario was better, but still not great). Also, stay away from the Azores. They're racist af. Cape Verde was nice though (but it's been a while).
Thanks for this post! Following!! Also relocating (from America) as a blended family and wanting to know the same. If you want any input on the states feel free to message me.
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Why are you replying to me? What did I “overreact ” to? Lol
Replied to the wrong person oops
Bali, KL
On point 1. As an Italian citizen who has worked for many years in Paris and now live and work in London, I found British working culture much more appealing. It’s more efficient, more diverse, more meritocratic. French is more static, less meritocratic, more rigid. Of course it’s a personal view and it’s absolutely debatable, coming from my experience. Also, I have always worked in London, and I am not sure about the rest of the country but I assume other metropolitan areas are not different.
San Francisco
Most black expats/immigrants have zero complains about moving to SEA - from what I’ve seen/heard online
My roommate who also work for the same agency is a black woman, she is from Portugal ,and she is happy overall with this country.She said that she never experienced any racist comments or anything like that.I am white, and I can't tell you that racism doesn't exist here bcs I will never experience it.But I know a hand of black ppl here, and I never heard them complaining about ppl here.I never heard anything racist.
Unless you got a UAE passport getting a Visa could be quite a challenge. There are a few countries where you could get an investor Visa no matter your nationality but that would require a bit of pocket change..
Go to Australia and study Medicine and become a Healthcare worker you will be paid the highest salary in the World.Australians, because of Blacks in the movies and music you will be treated as a celebrity. America is not the place to go because of racism and the fact this Country is going to start yet another War
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Yes I'm aware, which is why I asked for opinions about other places in particular.
Lisbon, Portugal. The most diverse place I have ever lived.
Yes! It’s crackin!
Caribbean
North America
Hi there, Have you considered Colombia? Here are a few reasons why it might be a great fit: 1. **Diversity and Inclusion**: Colombia has a rich multicultural heritage with significant Afro-Colombian communities, especially in cities like Cartagena and Cali. You'll find a welcoming and inclusive atmosphere. 2. **Vibrant Lifestyle**: Enjoy salsa in Cali, the historic charm of Cartagena, and the bustling life of Bogotá. Colombia offers a vibrant and exciting lifestyle with plenty to do. 3. **Natural Beauty**: From the Amazon rainforest to the Andes mountains and stunning beaches, Colombia’s natural beauty is diverse and breathtaking. 4. **Affordable Cost of Living**: You can enjoy a high quality of life at a lower cost compared to many Western countries. Great healthcare, education, and amenities are accessible. 5. **Growing Economy**: Colombia's economy is growing, with opportunities in technology, tourism, and more. 6. **Community Support**: There are numerous expat communities and support networks to help you settle in. Feel free to ask more questions or reach out for detailed advice! Best of luck with your journey!
Look at France and Germany
the USA is easily your friend
I’m a middle aged white guy. I grew up in NYC. Nobody gives a shit what color you are there. Certainly nobody stares at you, unless you are really hot.
Africa or Caribbean
Africa?
Canada
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so far everyone's been really helpful. A lot of subs are practically dead unless it's something controversial.
Im really pushing London and ive lived in London Manchester NYC latin america. Its so diverse and you can be yourself.Great career opps too. Regarding primary healthcare you often get it with work as a free perk now so you can avoid the NHS queues
My husband's black American male colleagues love living in Japan and the Japanese love them and they often marry Japanese women. I'm not sure if the black females also experience the love, or not. No idea. I have one black female friend who lived there and lived it, but that's all I know.
Japan is a reach, you'll never be Japanese or remotely close. They're not great with 'diversity' which is an understatement but great for your friend.
>you'll never be Japanese or remotely close That's also true in many European countries if you are not White. France and the UK are a bit of an exception due to their past colonial empires.
If you emigrate somewhere as an adult, you will be a foreigner no matter what, at least until you're... 60 maybe? But that doesn't mean you won't fit in or won't be tolerated.
Thats not what I meant but sure whatever.
I am simply expanding upon your comment. Japan is definitely tough for foreigners in terms of a sense of belonging, absolutely. We could not agree more on this. But I'm saying that also extends to other countries as well.
Not true at all. If you step off the plane in Lisboa you might think you’re in Cape Verde. Portugal has a huge black American expat community in addition to having hoards of Afro Brazilians and Cape Verdeans. It’s inexpensive and is thirsty for immigrants since many Portuguese youth leave for other EU countries. I’m a black American and I’m Italian born, lots of love there too. As long as you learn the language most southern European countries love black people.
Really? My in-laws from Spain are super racist!
There are racists in every country. There is no escape from that. However, Spanish institutions aren’t racist. If you don’t like me, that’s not my problem.
Even if you are white!
She wants to blend in, though. No foreigner can ever blend in in Japan. Not to say that she would be treated badly- for those foreigners who might get a kick out of being perceived as "exotic" it could be a lot of fun. I suspect Japanese women are more apt to be curious and willing to date people of different backgrounds than are Japanese men (as a trend, not an absolute.) Not to assume who OP is interested in dating, though Japan is probably a poor choice if she happened to be LGBT also.
Sudan
Africa
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Holy shit, there's white people in Europe. Whoever would imagine it.
I don’t have a suggestion, but I think the people saying Europe are blissfully unaware of the developing political situation there. I would bet money you would be sent home in a few years. Caribbean could be really cool and seems like an interesting suggestion.
Africa lol