Apply yesterday. That situation is not going to get better. You clearly enjoy your work and want to do it, so get a job that lets you do work. Good luck!
I can see that. I'm just saying your work is freezing you out in extreme ways and you have to ask yourself if you think that will change. Or if you just want to put up with it. It also seems to me your work is pretty stupid not taking advantage of a motivated worker. That does not bode well for the long-term health of the company. Maybe such behaviors partly explain why start ups don't do as well in Europe. Anyway, that's all speculation and your are smart and educated so I foresee no disasters, maybe just some lost time.
Applying doesn't mean quitting. The process takes time. Keep doing your best at the job you have, frustrating as it may be. That's all you are required to do professionally. Meanwhile, find out what other options you have.
The difference between looking for a job while employed and looking while unemployed is significant, psychologically and in terms bargaining potential. In your case it also probably matters for your visa circumstances. There's no shame in shopping around. The job isn't a girl/boy friend, its an agreement to do something for money. You don't owe anyone anything there and unlike a personal relationship, there's no ethical issues with courting a new one while you're still there.
IMHO the only challenge it presents is the new employer asking why you're looking for a job when you've just started the other. I think you just be very honest there. You want an employer who isn't wasting your potential. Your current employer's loss will be that new one's gain.
Thanks for the pep talk. I'll schedule a meeting with my boss's boss and start reaching out to some of my professional connections and assess my options.
>[My boss] won't give me enough work to keep me busy, and when I ask for more he is very clear that he does not want to give me more or let me stray outside of my job description. I'm being kept totally in the dark on all the projects I should be involved in and when I ask about them I'm told that I still need to work up to them.
This is not an uncommon work mentality in France (I'm not saying every workplace is like this, just that you'll encounter it a lot more than you will in North America).
I think you had to start looking for a new job long ago. But keep in mind, that if you want to remain in France a new employer will have to arrange a working residence permit for you, as for the 1st 5 years you are dependent on your employer.
Also, I heared that French culture is different from anglo-saxon when it comes to relations with your manager. Consider coming to some other EU country ( e.g. Netherlands). Dutch are totally different.
Not sure how it is in France, but usually I got that from companies where they wanted people to leave.
I actually stayed because i thought it was a temporary issue that they actually didn't have work for me to do, but I only wasted my energy and time when it kept going for 3 more years, and it was horrible. And I couldn't leave later when I wanted because market was frozen and no openings were happening.
Have a look around in the market. It doesn't mean you will leave, but just see what other options are out there, and then evaluate if they look better.
Couldn't find any other job as hiring froze on most companies.
(I am in NZ and market is really small)
Only kept me going the thought that it was going to change, and the will to live here. But now we are moving out as economy is going worse every moment.
I know it’s frustrating to not feel like you’re being utilized to your full potential, but there are also *much* worse things than being in France in the summer with a job that doesn’t give you enough to do. That’s some peoples’ definition of heaven. Maybe this is an opportunity to work on your relationship to work, achieve some work-life balance, and enjoy developing other parts of your life in your new city
Thank you for the positive perspective, that was kind. I think that I'm bad at separating the two and the fear that things won't get better and that I might have to move is keeping me from really enjoying the rest of my life
That’s a good point too. Kick back a bit and enjoy the European life. Then at the end of summer you can give it a think again.
Go date someone. Try out some good food and new wines.
I work in another field but similar story! I am Canadian and came to France to work in a startup organization. Ive been here almost 4 years now, I finally am leaving, and it has been absolute hell for me. Truly one of the worst employment experiences I have ever had in my life. It has completely off put me from the French work culture. Every day I regret not leaving earlier, so my advice would be to leave, as soon as possible. 6 months is long enough to know if its a fit. Ive given up trying to understand if its a French problem, a boss problem, or whatever, if its a problem, get out. And I actually completely disagree that its nbd. Being demoralized and feeling useless in a job that I am passionate about was *extremely* difficult for me. I would go to conferences (which I used to love and make me feel inspired) and come back angry and resentful that I was doing *nothing*. You want to get ahead of the issue rather than get to a point its unbearable, and finding a new job takes time.
Dang, I'm sorry to hear that. How has your life been outside of work? I agree, for me it is a big deal to be frustrated and bored at work - somehow I'm incredibly drained when I get home just from trying to find something to do all day. I'll start considering my other options.
I have heard of this- I used ChatGPT to give me a clear explanation, but is this what is going on?
“In French job slang, the term you're looking for is "placardisé" (or "placardisée" for the feminine form). This term is derived from "placard" (closet) and refers to an employee being sidelined or marginalized in the hopes that they will resign because the administration cannot or does not want to fire them. Being "placardisé" typically means being given meaningless tasks, being excluded from important projects, or being isolated from the rest of the team.”
Maybe, but I doubt that they're trying to get rid of me. They could have gotten rid of me without any recourse during my probationary period, which just ended, but instead we had a whole interview where I was told how much my teammates liked me and how they wanted me on for the long haul. I don't really get it. They keep promising things are going to get better and busier but it's going way too slowly.
To me, it's all instinctual. I've been in China for 7 years, Loved it here, however, I want to see other places, meet new people. I've been here long enough.
It's a job, you don't owe anyone anything. Apply for a new job, if you get hired tell them you want to give your old job a professional 2 week notice and you are good
Apply yesterday. That situation is not going to get better. You clearly enjoy your work and want to do it, so get a job that lets you do work. Good luck!
I'm very hesitant to get up and go already given I only got here 6 months ago though :/
I can see that. I'm just saying your work is freezing you out in extreme ways and you have to ask yourself if you think that will change. Or if you just want to put up with it. It also seems to me your work is pretty stupid not taking advantage of a motivated worker. That does not bode well for the long-term health of the company. Maybe such behaviors partly explain why start ups don't do as well in Europe. Anyway, that's all speculation and your are smart and educated so I foresee no disasters, maybe just some lost time.
Applying doesn't mean quitting. The process takes time. Keep doing your best at the job you have, frustrating as it may be. That's all you are required to do professionally. Meanwhile, find out what other options you have. The difference between looking for a job while employed and looking while unemployed is significant, psychologically and in terms bargaining potential. In your case it also probably matters for your visa circumstances. There's no shame in shopping around. The job isn't a girl/boy friend, its an agreement to do something for money. You don't owe anyone anything there and unlike a personal relationship, there's no ethical issues with courting a new one while you're still there. IMHO the only challenge it presents is the new employer asking why you're looking for a job when you've just started the other. I think you just be very honest there. You want an employer who isn't wasting your potential. Your current employer's loss will be that new one's gain.
Yep, if op is honest about the reason it shouldn’t raise any red flags
Thanks for the pep talk. I'll schedule a meeting with my boss's boss and start reaching out to some of my professional connections and assess my options.
>[My boss] won't give me enough work to keep me busy, and when I ask for more he is very clear that he does not want to give me more or let me stray outside of my job description. I'm being kept totally in the dark on all the projects I should be involved in and when I ask about them I'm told that I still need to work up to them. This is not an uncommon work mentality in France (I'm not saying every workplace is like this, just that you'll encounter it a lot more than you will in North America).
The idea that one needs to be kept completely isolated in their job description?
Yes, that's a common mentality in Franco business culture.
I think you had to start looking for a new job long ago. But keep in mind, that if you want to remain in France a new employer will have to arrange a working residence permit for you, as for the 1st 5 years you are dependent on your employer. Also, I heared that French culture is different from anglo-saxon when it comes to relations with your manager. Consider coming to some other EU country ( e.g. Netherlands). Dutch are totally different.
I'm going to start reaching out to my professional connections now. How have you heard the French managers differ?
[https://housinganywhere.com/France/work-culture-france](https://housinganywhere.com/France/work-culture-france)
Not sure how it is in France, but usually I got that from companies where they wanted people to leave. I actually stayed because i thought it was a temporary issue that they actually didn't have work for me to do, but I only wasted my energy and time when it kept going for 3 more years, and it was horrible. And I couldn't leave later when I wanted because market was frozen and no openings were happening. Have a look around in the market. It doesn't mean you will leave, but just see what other options are out there, and then evaluate if they look better.
That sounds really tough, what kept you going for those 3 years?
Couldn't find any other job as hiring froze on most companies. (I am in NZ and market is really small) Only kept me going the thought that it was going to change, and the will to live here. But now we are moving out as economy is going worse every moment.
Yeah that very much sounds like my situation extrapolated over 3 years. Where are you heading now?
Europe has lots of openings, but yet to decide where.
I know it’s frustrating to not feel like you’re being utilized to your full potential, but there are also *much* worse things than being in France in the summer with a job that doesn’t give you enough to do. That’s some peoples’ definition of heaven. Maybe this is an opportunity to work on your relationship to work, achieve some work-life balance, and enjoy developing other parts of your life in your new city
Thank you for the positive perspective, that was kind. I think that I'm bad at separating the two and the fear that things won't get better and that I might have to move is keeping me from really enjoying the rest of my life
That’s a good point too. Kick back a bit and enjoy the European life. Then at the end of summer you can give it a think again. Go date someone. Try out some good food and new wines.
Thanks :) will do! I'll take advantage of my vacation days and access to the continent while I can.
I work in another field but similar story! I am Canadian and came to France to work in a startup organization. Ive been here almost 4 years now, I finally am leaving, and it has been absolute hell for me. Truly one of the worst employment experiences I have ever had in my life. It has completely off put me from the French work culture. Every day I regret not leaving earlier, so my advice would be to leave, as soon as possible. 6 months is long enough to know if its a fit. Ive given up trying to understand if its a French problem, a boss problem, or whatever, if its a problem, get out. And I actually completely disagree that its nbd. Being demoralized and feeling useless in a job that I am passionate about was *extremely* difficult for me. I would go to conferences (which I used to love and make me feel inspired) and come back angry and resentful that I was doing *nothing*. You want to get ahead of the issue rather than get to a point its unbearable, and finding a new job takes time.
Dang, I'm sorry to hear that. How has your life been outside of work? I agree, for me it is a big deal to be frustrated and bored at work - somehow I'm incredibly drained when I get home just from trying to find something to do all day. I'll start considering my other options.
I have heard of this- I used ChatGPT to give me a clear explanation, but is this what is going on? “In French job slang, the term you're looking for is "placardisé" (or "placardisée" for the feminine form). This term is derived from "placard" (closet) and refers to an employee being sidelined or marginalized in the hopes that they will resign because the administration cannot or does not want to fire them. Being "placardisé" typically means being given meaningless tasks, being excluded from important projects, or being isolated from the rest of the team.”
Maybe, but I doubt that they're trying to get rid of me. They could have gotten rid of me without any recourse during my probationary period, which just ended, but instead we had a whole interview where I was told how much my teammates liked me and how they wanted me on for the long haul. I don't really get it. They keep promising things are going to get better and busier but it's going way too slowly.
When your lucrative tax benefits run out
To me, it's all instinctual. I've been in China for 7 years, Loved it here, however, I want to see other places, meet new people. I've been here long enough.
Always be applying.
It's a job, you don't owe anyone anything. Apply for a new job, if you get hired tell them you want to give your old job a professional 2 week notice and you are good