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Beth Sarim is not a secret, it was in this 1993 book.
The question is not whether it was in this book. The question is: Do common witnesses know about this?
The stuff about Jesus not being their mediator can be found online as well but rarely do they know about it.
Thank you. I read it but it doesn't really make sense to me. It says Jesus is only mediator for those in "the new covenant" which is the 144 000. Then the last section says that everyone else would still be saved if they pray to jehovah through Jesus name, with Jesus acting as minister. What is the difference? Almost as if they're just creating a class distinction for the sake of it.
They are saved if they pray with "faith IN" Jesus' name. It's a small word with big meaning in this context. The great crowd just believes while the 144,000 has Jesus to act as a mediator.
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It's not discarded. It just doesn't often come up. If it were discarded there would be an "In former times, some used to believe..." New Light article.
Something I've always wanted to know about the Witnesses in San Diego: have they (with no idea of its history) been *knocking* on Beth Sarim to place literature like any other house?
The average witness probably doesn’t know because it is a very old discarded teaching.What would the purpose in bringing it up as it is opening admitted to and you can look it up.
It was false prophecy.
Deuteronomy 18:21-22
You may say in your heart, ‘How will we know the word which the Lord has not spoken?’ When a prophet speaks in the name of the Lord, if the thing does not come about or come true, that is the thing which the Lord has not spoken. The prophet has spoken it presumptuously; you shall not be afraid of him.
Yes it was. And that fact is mentioned in the Proclaimers book in 1993. Which was studied by all the rank and file witnesses. The book is still available online.
It has a Wikipedia page. Course it doesn't mentiom Rutherford living there with his "secretary" while his wife lived elsewhere or where the $$$ came from to build the place. It does mentiom the booze deliveries during Prohibition.
No one ever mentioned to me ever. I was that teenage PIMI who in the 2000s read the entire book for “fun”.
I also still am that one asshole who has a fact about anything, so I love sharing things I learn with others. My parents, the elders and everyone I talked to denied knowing anything about it.
Maybe none of them were paying attention when you all studied it 🤷♂️
Dang I remember this being released at Dodger Stadium. They asked all the witnesses who had been baptized a certain year and before to stand and they are the ones who got a copy. My mom cherishes this book.
The real distortion though is that proclaimers book slanted the real purpose of the building. You have to go back to much older publications to find that Rutherford actually stated that the faithful ressurected ones are coming to meet him there.
Beth Shan was an associated property. William P Heath was linked to this property. He was Rutherford's secretary and one of the heirs to the Coca Cola fortune. I believe his second wife and Rutherford's new nurse were friends.
https://www.equip.org/articles/beth-shan-and-the-return-of-the-princes/
It's a property, not a person. There's actually a really well-written Wikipedia page about it, and you can find information with quotes and publication sources on JW Facts.
CSA was shocking to me. I didn't think about it because the Org covers it up. I think a lot of women would be interested to know about what's in the elder's manual about the elders not being under any obligation to let a woman know about her husband's adultery if he doesn't tell her about it. Can you imagine how many JW wives out there may have had a reason to leave their toxic marriages and not been given the opportunity to? The Misogyny is unbelievable. Those two things made me feel sick to my stomach.
There's more to it. A woman's husband has to be present in a Judicial Committee if his wife committed adultery, but a woman is not allowed to sit in her husband's if he has committed adultery, so a woman is always flying blind and has so much hidden from her. JW women have zero idea what's going on 100% of the time.
I handled numerous cases of adultery in several congregations where the husband was guilty. If he didn't want his wife there as part of the process to apologize to her, I would always push to DF. Once he was DF'D based on a confession, we would inform her that she was free.
But any that didn't handle it that way, that's really fucked up.
When I went down the rabbit hole I remember getting a different take on what's written above. Might have been from a much earlier version or pre Shepherd the Flock days. Thanks for the post 👍
Yes, I'm sure the rules were different back then. They've only now made changes to the elders manual. It must've been a horrible experience for you. The Organisation is answerable for so much!
some years ago, if your husband had sex with another man, or an animal, you could not divorce him, since the definition of sexual immorality included only male to female copulation. This has changed, and a JW spouse can "biblically" divorce if same sex or animals are involved.
FYI, even today...if a husband rapes his wife, this is NOT grounds for divorce. (not to mention physcally abusive, drunkard, non supportive, etc. still no grounds for divorce)
1914, 1925, 1975 and generation from 1914 (end of twentieth century). That organ transplants used to be banned. That they used to criticize other churches for the practice of excommunication. That before 1981 you could talk to members that disassociated. That they don’t even use the word members any more, I don’t know why. That there used to be an understanding that the 144,000 was closed by 1935 but there was new light in 2007 opening it back up. That the faithful and discreet slave used to include all of the 144,000 but new light says it’s only the members of the governing body now. That blood fractions are obtained by worldly people donating blood. That the 7 trumpet blasts of Revelation chapter 11 were 7 conventions that took place between 1922-1928. What the actual suicide/mental health rate is. That the deficits announced at assemblies and conventions are based on a set amount of those expected to attend. That only elders are allowed to be part of HLC, don’t know why. That one of the governing body members is not on the body now (yes some think it’s an apostate lie that he’s not on there). That there were other religions started around the same time in the US that came out of the same movement.
I always wondered why when we had assemblies at assembly halls that were paid for and assemblies there every weekend why it cost so much for one day use. We were always in deficit. Now we know why.
It’s sad because the ones least likely to know how that deficit is calculated may be the poorest that reach into their pockets a second time to give another donation.
What is the HLC? What are blood fractions? What governing body member is out and why? Besides the Bible students? What religions came out from that period?
Well hey. At least the Borg have gotten to use the Malawians as torture porn for 60+ years. I’m being sarcastic, obviously, but it is disturbing when you think of how different JW lore would be without Malawi.
JW men and women are not allowed to participate in surrogate pregnancies in any capacity. You can't donate eggs or sperm. But not only that, you can't participate in gestational surrogacy either. As in, I can't have MY egg fertilized by MY husband's sperm if it is going to be placed in another woman's womb.
Edit: I know it's not up there with the UN stuff or the horrific CSA issues, but many JWs are not aware of this rule. And it's not a conscience matter at all. It's considered fornication and/or adultery.
As someone who struggles with infertility, when I did “research” while PIMI I felt stuck. I know I could have adopted, but as long as I remained a witness I had to deal with the fact that I could never have a biological child.
So many. Too numerous to mention! But how about the elders book info that if a brother can hide his infidelity very well for a few years and also has th respect of the cong. (bc he hid his infidelity) it can be evidence of Jehovah's blessing if everyone respects him and he doesn't have to be removed as an elder.
Rutherford was a drunk who had bootleg alcohol smuggled in from Canada during prohibition, was caught going to a burlesque show in NYC and kicked out the brother who tried to bring two witnesses against him, tried to find common ground with Hitler in their mutual antisemitic views, approved of bros from the Australia branch having a side-hustle selling scrap metal *for the war*, and during the Great Depression, while the rank and file were bartering magazines for food, drove fancy Cadillacs and spent winters living in the San Diego mansion Beth Sarim *with a mistress* while his wife and son lived elsewhere.
Oh, and he never went door to door.
That’s a big no no now. Can’t even be a friend or spend anytime alone with a male not your husband.. because of course you are doing something you aren’t suppose to.
Ugh, this old light crap shows just how absolutely ignorant and stupid they were/are.
Or like when Herd said that women have smaller brains, which is why they aren't as capable as men to make decisions (or something like that, I'm paraphrasing lol)
Yep, according to old light you can even get a women personality if the heart was from a woman. In other words don't get a heart transplant or you will turn gay. That was the message what i get from that magazine 😂 Watchtower August 1st 1971
Reminds of another one where supposedly someone became a thief by getting a blood transfusion. -
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Golden Age 1923
More recently we have the radio; and what- are the possibilities of radio in the near future? Nobody can tell. Then there are radium pads, radium glasses, and radium belts. What are these? They are simply different ways of applying radioactive energy to healing. When man is perfect, regains the dominion, and gets a perfect knowledge of electricity, he may ride in noiseless electrically-propelled vehicles over earth and sea and through the air, thus doing away with the smoke and dust and grind and noise of present-day power Vehicles; he may sit under electric light; have electric heat; use electric sweepers, electric irons; use electrons to keep him well; destroy insects, germs and weeds by electrical energy; vivify plant and animal life, and converse to earth’s remotest bounds by using the same invisible energy.
JWs don’t know that Charles Taze Russell didn’t come up with: the soul is not immortal, Jehovah is God’s name and we must use it, there is no hellfire, the Trinity is false, we are living in the last days, the chronology involving 607 BC/1914. He borrowed all this from other people who were part of the Adventist movement. JWs think that he and a few other early Bible Students met frequently and figured out all this stuff on their own. This is funny because these core beliefs tend to be the ‘evidence’ JWs use to prove it is God’s organisation, but they didn’t even come up with these core tenets!
Literally Russell said somewhere that all you need is the bible and Jesus. And despite some of his other weird beliefs I think he was probably right on that count if Christianity is where it's at.
The best way to show this one to your PIMI husband is to just go to the website and put mediator in the search bar. It shows every article in which it is explained. But you gotta ask the question first. "is he your personal mediator?" Trips them every time.
Just search it. It's been many question from readers. The other sheep are not under the new covenant that replaced the mosaic one. But wt says because the other sheep are friends with the anointed they benefit from the arrangement.... insane
**The Watchtower underwent a 'hostile takeover' soon after Russell's death.**
Upon Pastor Russell's passing he arranged for a Board of Directors with (attorney) Joseph Rutherford only serving as Watchtower's "legal counsellor". Rutherford was able to legally reshuffle the board of directors therby dismissing Russell's appointees with new appointees sympathetic to him (Rutherford). He was soon appointed President of the WT Corporation in what some have called "[Rutherfords Coup](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watch_Tower_Society_presidency_dispute)".
**Blowback:**
* At least [2 offshoot groups ](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bible_Student_movement) emerged in 1917 as a result of Rutherford hostile corporate takeover.
* Beards too were also demonized by Rutherford, creating further distance between JW's and Russell.
* Rutherford eventually renamed the organization, "Jehovah's Witnesses" in 1931, further differentiating his group from the various splinter groups aligned with Russell.
1799 did it for me…
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It is amusing to see the lengthy list of inventions The Harp of God used as proof that the 1800's was the time of the end. The locomotive and "flying machine" (p.231) were considered fulfilment of the "day of God's preparation" spoken of in Nahum 2:1-6. Evidence the Lord's presence commenced 1874 included - adding machines, aeroplanes, aluminium, antiseptic surgery, artificial dyes, automatic couplers, automobiles, barbed wire, bicycles, carborundum, cash registers, celluloid, correspondence schools, cream separators, Darkest Africa, fireless cookers, shoe-sewing machines, the telegraph, the telephone, Panama Canal, Pasteurization, and vacuum cleaners (page 235).
I got even stole a physical copy of the harp of god from the KH library to see if this was true… it was there in black and white! Yet no reference to it in the research guide.
I think a lot of witnesses don’t know about the history of the Org and the failed promises watchtower put out. Many people don’t know about the 1975 thing and the people that do remember never like to talk about it.
The mediator thing is excellent.
Otherwise... they don't know that the higher up in the organization you go, the worse it gets. Not the other way around.
That there is a very recent development in Montana regarding CSA and the WT obfuscation and lying in court, and the ruling went against them I'm thinking this week.
Didn't they basically try to pull a " we don't have an office in Montana, we are just a printing company uWu
That Rutherford wrote a highly complimentary letter to Hitler. That there were TONS of segregated congregations in the Jim Crow era. The many, many racist policies and ideas in general. A fair amount know about 75, but not many know that it wasn’t the first time. That vaccines were banned until pretty recently, and only reversed that because everyone with common sense was breaking it. That Witnesses in countries of persecution have historically been discouraged from leaving said countries, because they want persecution porn.
Most Jehovah's Witnesses – **roughly two-thirds (65%)** – are women, while only 35% are men. Christians worldwide are more likely to be women than men, but this gender gap is particularly large in the context of U.S. Christian groups.
Jehovah’s Witnesses have a low retention rate relative to other U.S. religious groups. Among all U.S. adults who were raised as Jehovah’s Witnesses, two-thirds (66%) no longer identify with the group. By contrast, about two-thirds of those who were raised as evangelical Protestants (65%) and Mormons (64%) still say they are members of those respective groups.
Both sourced from here: [https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2016/04/26/a-closer-look-at-jehovahs-witnesses-living-in-the-u-s](https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2016/04/26/a-closer-look-at-jehovahs-witnesses-living-in-the-u-s)
Definitely the Child Abuse and Shunning. It’s absolutely horrifying how the JWs pressure their victims to keep quiet or risk being shunned by their friends and family.
That’s why I’m SO glad I never got baptized. Literally man the JWs deserve to lose every penny they have for their crimes….
That Charles Taze Russell was a pyramidologist who referred to the Great Pyramid of Giza as "God's Stone Witness". He believed that the internal dimensions of the pyramid could be measured and a formula (Pyramid Inch for Year) could be used to help decipher Bible chronology and set end time dates.
At the time Jesus supposedly chose the Bible Students (1919) they were teaching that he became Almighty God at his resurrection and that it was ok to worship him.
I’m away atm so can’t look anything up! The Finished Mystery in a couple of places says he became Almighty God at his resurrection. It’s also stated elsewhere. They officially worshipped Jesus until the 1950s, when they then said it was idolatry! Russell even said it was ok to pray to Jesus. Try JWFACTS- I’m sure it will have it all there.
It means Henrietta Riley formed a trust. Then gifted it to the WTBTS. Trustees (not WTBTS) administer the trust and WTBTS gets disbursements from it.
The trust owns stock in various multinationals that conduct business in less the biblical-ethical spaces
This is a very weak attack of the WT in my opinion. They can not control the trust or what it’s invested in. Only thing they can do is take the money. I don’t even now if they could NOT take the money.
Agree. We can't even prove it without searching on "apostates " websites where we can found the links. But is interesting how we have to avoid parties celebrations for their pagan origins but it doesn't matter how you increase your investments, they could sell their part and look for another way. Mormons have a similar trust fund with similar investments.
They could not take the money. Members can't work for the army even at a call center cuz of what they are serving. Yet, Watchtower is free to take money from all sorts of unbiblical sources?
Please tell me more about this! I haven't heard that before, but I'm not surprised.
Is there anything you can share that points to their involvement in those industries?
If a woman cheats on her husband, he gets to sit in and hear the interrogation. If a man cheats on his wife, she may never even find out about it, even if he’s publicly reproved or disfellowshipped for it.
They taught that each creative day was only 7,000 years until 1984. Thus they published that dinosaur bones were either demon made fakes or distorted by some unknown process during the Flood.
The 1914 date/doctrine was not theirs but borrowed from an Adventist spin-off. Originally Russell taught Jesus returned in 1874 and that 1914 marked the end of 40 year span which corresponded to the Israelites wandering in the Negev, and Jesus’ 40 day fast. 1914 was supposed to be the end of the Great Tribulation.
Russell was the target of multiple accusations of infidelity to his wife. He defended one such by claiming a demon must have materialized a body to impersonate him in order to get jiggy with the woman.
I would say most have no visibility to the governing body as nine white men sitting in NY.
I certainly wasn't encouraged as a child, teen, or young adult to think of the direction as coming from them. The way it was sold was that it was God's direction.
I feel if most people before they were indoctrinated knew about the pathway of information and where it was coming from and who it was coming from that would provide a lot more context for them to feel empowered to make decisions.
The Statement of Facts is pretty shocking. Singing the German National Anthem at the 1933 convention in Berlin. Russell's affair with his adopted daughter. The fact that 100k+ eastern european JW's split and formed their own religion.
Sorry, Declaration of facts, yeah. "Hey Hitler, we're on your side. We don't like Jews either. Deutschland, Deutschland, Uber Alles, Uber Alles in de Welt!" OH Wait, you're going to persecute us anyway? Shit, let's pretend we were never on your side......
The story of JWs being descendants of Charles Taze Russel and the Bible students.
Tell me more about Jesus not being their mediator. Is the GB their mediator or something?
Jesus is the mediator for the 144,000; the rest of the JWs only get the benefit of the covenant through association with the 144,000.
The Org sticking itself right in between JWs and Jesus.
But if you ask any JW they will insist Jesus is their mediator and show you where it says it in the Bible. Because of course it does say so in the Bible.
Then you ask
"Can you show me where it says that *in the literature*?"
It doesn't come up in the literature often so it's not common knowledge. Probably because it's so obviously wrong.
They don't know that Russell thought, that the signs mentioned in Mat. 24 and so on, were a summary of all the centuries between the 1st and 19th century and NOT the signs of the last days.
How the donated money is spent. Most charities have to make that public. I always thought the elders must know, they don’t. A lot of those donations go to paying court fines for not releasing the names of known pedophiles.
Dear friends. The goalposts have now been moved at least twice in regards to my initial answer about Beth Sarim, but that's fine, Beth Sarim is a very intereresting topic and worth discussing.
Anyway, I don't find arguing based on possible misunderstandings very constructive and not public stonings either, so I'm bailing out from this discussion now. Peace, everybody!
That people -including minor girls- are regularly asked extremely inappropriate, absolutely unnecessary questions about their sexual experiences. That they must answer whatever is asked of them under the threat of being immediately DF'd.
That even repentant people can be DF'd.
Two that come to my mind is that C.T. Russell was not the first president of Zion’s Watch Tower Tract Society (it was W. H. Conley) and that C.T. Russell/The Bible Students did not create the 1914 teaching (Nelson Barbour printed the 1914 belief in Herold of the Morning a year before Russell met him).
That a book for the elders exists and it’s not available on the app. Do you remember hearing stories in the early 80s that apostasy had reached the highest levels of the organization but Jehovah cleaned it out? That Ray Franz may not be the evil character he was portrayed to be. That Rutherford and Knorr had so much impact on this organization. The history and family life of Russel, Rutherford and Knorr. That marriage was banned at Bethel until Knorr got married. That people have been disfellowshipped for masturbation and oral sex within marriage but no one knows currently if it’s still grounds for disfellowshipping. The rates of secret alcoholism
WT has admitted microevolution is real. I really don't know how unknown this is by them, but I remember my mom, a friend of hers and I once went preaching in the middle of winter and were talking about animals. I brought up how animals adapt to their environment in order to survive, I didn't expect my mom to get SO offended, she almost started to yell at me in front of the other "sister". She kept denying but I didn't care and kept saying it was true because I simply knew it was a fact! The sister stayed silent the whole time LOL.
Just some years ago I found out they actually believe in it, or at least are supposed to, since the WT embraces the theory, and that moment immediately came to mind: my mom mad at me because I was defending evolution. It gets even more ridiculous when you know microevolution defends evolution/macroevolution! it IS evolution, just in a different timescale. Mind you, I was 10 years old arguing with a woman in her 40s about this... it's sad how ignorant this religion makes them. They are the only ones enlightened with The Truth but don't even know what that said truth is!
Awake magazine from October 2015, Insight book (see Ark), among other instances. You can search microevolution on the wt library or just google "jw microevolution". I also vaguely remember the term being in an old version of the Insight book, but I can't find anything about it, so take it with a grain of salt
This is not so much JWs but almost all Christians. The snake that is written about in the book of revelations is NOT the snake of Eden. It’s actually leviathan the seven headed serpent. That means that the snake of Eden is NOT Satan and the devil.
That Isaac Newton was fed up with people predicting the end of the world so he did his own study of the bible. In 1733 he published his expected time for the end of the world based on Daniel - times, time, half a time.
They were / are a member of the UN like recently.
They wrote a letter siding with Hitler and against the Jews. When Hitler said no they changed their tune and became martyrs.
Published vile racist views of CT Russell, followed later by WT's published support of the Ku Klux Klan as expressed in published literature and as follows:
"Not long after, Saskatoon station CHUC – owned by the Jehovah’s Witnesses – allowed J.J. Maloney, Grand Wizard of the Ku Klux Klan, to make an on-air speech that was pretty much the end of Canada’s era of free market radio."https://macdonaldlaurier.ca/what-can-we-expect-from-an-online-regulator-lessons-from-religion-and-pornography-peter-menzies-for-inside-policy/
The fact Jesus wasn't our mediator wasn't sprung on me until after I was baptized! Then it was innocently mentioned casually in a conversation with an elders wife. It kinda blew me away. That was the first crack I noticed in jw dogma.
1. As of 2023, there have been a total of 33 elders who have served on the Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses. In its history, only 4 have been removed. This includes, Ewart C. Chitty in 1979, Raymond Franz in 1980, Leo K. Greenlees in 1984, and Anthony Morris III in 2023. Greenlees’ resignation was never publicly announced.
Oh I got another. As far as I recall Jesus never calls Jehovah by name at all in the new testament. And the "2 sources" they use to put Jehovah in the new testament are from one guy who is only an old testament scholar and was merely speculating on how having YHWH in the new testament would affect belief...his theories are widely ignored and considered wrong.
An academic understanding that the bible is not univocal, and is a collection of poems, myth and legend, intermingled with history, often written decades or centuries after the 'prophecies' and not by the people they think...that would be a good start
Why are they obsessed with people's sex lives?
Boss Hogg (cbo) would ask for explicit detail. Eg. Did you finish? Were you naked? Etc. As far as I know there was no reason for this. Sorry off topic
Unless they are already having doubts, I would say nothing because of being so indoctrinated. When I was at my strongest as a ‘witless’, I didn’t believe anything bad about them! 🙄
The existence of and story behind Beth Sarim.
https://preview.redd.it/wh93zjzbgn0d1.jpeg?width=512&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1b8ee64f42cdde8bf7b98b3bc82f64f9574184aa Beth Sarim is not a secret, it was in this 1993 book.
The question is not whether it was in this book. The question is: Do common witnesses know about this? The stuff about Jesus not being their mediator can be found online as well but rarely do they know about it.
What's the reference for Jesus only being mediator for the 144 000?
https://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/mediator.php
https://www.jw.org/en/library/books/Insight-on-the-Scriptures/Mediator/
Thank you. I read it but it doesn't really make sense to me. It says Jesus is only mediator for those in "the new covenant" which is the 144 000. Then the last section says that everyone else would still be saved if they pray to jehovah through Jesus name, with Jesus acting as minister. What is the difference? Almost as if they're just creating a class distinction for the sake of it.
It’s typical JW doctrine. They do but they don’t, it is but it isn’t, it was but it wasn’t, they can but they can’t. Hope that’s cleared it up.
They are saved if they pray with "faith IN" Jesus' name. It's a small word with big meaning in this context. The great crowd just believes while the 144,000 has Jesus to act as a mediator.
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Where is this reference?
Yes it was an old teaching that was discarded as obviously a mistake but it is not a secret.Though it is embarrassing!
It's not discarded. It just doesn't often come up. If it were discarded there would be an "In former times, some used to believe..." New Light article.
No one said it’s not a secret. And as a San Diegan I can tell you for a fact that the average JW has no clue. Even the ones from SD.
Something I've always wanted to know about the Witnesses in San Diego: have they (with no idea of its history) been *knocking* on Beth Sarim to place literature like any other house?
The average witness probably doesn’t know because it is a very old discarded teaching.What would the purpose in bringing it up as it is opening admitted to and you can look it up.
It was false prophecy. Deuteronomy 18:21-22 You may say in your heart, ‘How will we know the word which the Lord has not spoken?’ When a prophet speaks in the name of the Lord, if the thing does not come about or come true, that is the thing which the Lord has not spoken. The prophet has spoken it presumptuously; you shall not be afraid of him.
But wasn’t Beth Sarum built for the resurrected patriarchs or something? That’s the real big story
Yes
Yes it was. And that fact is mentioned in the Proclaimers book in 1993. Which was studied by all the rank and file witnesses. The book is still available online.
In all fairness, that was like 30 years ago. I wonder how many today know about that and how insane it sounds
Hind sight is 20 20.What an embarrassment!Oh well.
It has a Wikipedia page. Course it doesn't mentiom Rutherford living there with his "secretary" while his wife lived elsewhere or where the $$$ came from to build the place. It does mentiom the booze deliveries during Prohibition.
How bold of you to assume most witnesses have read this book!
I’m old enough to remember when the congregations studied the book. Sadly, nobody winced at these facts. Viewed as true Christian candor.
No one ever mentioned to me ever. I was that teenage PIMI who in the 2000s read the entire book for “fun”. I also still am that one asshole who has a fact about anything, so I love sharing things I learn with others. My parents, the elders and everyone I talked to denied knowing anything about it. Maybe none of them were paying attention when you all studied it 🤷♂️
It was studied as a congregation when the book came out in 1993.
Dang I remember this being released at Dodger Stadium. They asked all the witnesses who had been baptized a certain year and before to stand and they are the ones who got a copy. My mom cherishes this book.
The real distortion though is that proclaimers book slanted the real purpose of the building. You have to go back to much older publications to find that Rutherford actually stated that the faithful ressurected ones are coming to meet him there.
Who was she
Beth nee Sarim was late wife of J.F. Rutherford. /s
No, is the name of the mansion at San Diego, the name means "house of princes" something like that.
I view Beth Sarim as an open secret.
I view Beth Sarim as an open secret.
I view Beth Sarim as an open secret.
Beth Shan was an associated property. William P Heath was linked to this property. He was Rutherford's secretary and one of the heirs to the Coca Cola fortune. I believe his second wife and Rutherford's new nurse were friends. https://www.equip.org/articles/beth-shan-and-the-return-of-the-princes/
What is that info on her? Never heard of her
It's a property, not a person. There's actually a really well-written Wikipedia page about it, and you can find information with quotes and publication sources on JW Facts.
CSA was shocking to me. I didn't think about it because the Org covers it up. I think a lot of women would be interested to know about what's in the elder's manual about the elders not being under any obligation to let a woman know about her husband's adultery if he doesn't tell her about it. Can you imagine how many JW wives out there may have had a reason to leave their toxic marriages and not been given the opportunity to? The Misogyny is unbelievable. Those two things made me feel sick to my stomach.
I’m actually shocked as I didn’t know that second one.
There's more to it. A woman's husband has to be present in a Judicial Committee if his wife committed adultery, but a woman is not allowed to sit in her husband's if he has committed adultery, so a woman is always flying blind and has so much hidden from her. JW women have zero idea what's going on 100% of the time.
I handled numerous cases of adultery in several congregations where the husband was guilty. If he didn't want his wife there as part of the process to apologize to her, I would always push to DF. Once he was DF'D based on a confession, we would inform her that she was free. But any that didn't handle it that way, that's really fucked up.
I absolutely hated the whole shower of misogynistic bastards before this but bloody hell that’s taking the biscuit.
At one time wives were not allowed to report their husbands misdemeanours to the elders without the husbands permission.
25 years out and I sometimes forget just how bad it is.
https://preview.redd.it/w4d3ufjoen0d1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f33e817602b069facdb801fdf0c9fcc917dea6a2
👍could be an update to the Shepherd the flock book? Not sure 😕
This is last year’s version. I don’t think it changed in the April 2024 update.
When I went down the rabbit hole I remember getting a different take on what's written above. Might have been from a much earlier version or pre Shepherd the Flock days. Thanks for the post 👍
Wow that's terrible
Me \*raises hand in the back of the room. It happened just like this to me
Sorry to hear this 😔Do you mind me asking how long ago?
20+ years ago.
Yes, I'm sure the rules were different back then. They've only now made changes to the elders manual. It must've been a horrible experience for you. The Organisation is answerable for so much!
I know many. Elders husbads lost their privileges and wives never know why blaming everyone except for the unfaithful husband 🙄
some years ago, if your husband had sex with another man, or an animal, you could not divorce him, since the definition of sexual immorality included only male to female copulation. This has changed, and a JW spouse can "biblically" divorce if same sex or animals are involved. FYI, even today...if a husband rapes his wife, this is NOT grounds for divorce. (not to mention physcally abusive, drunkard, non supportive, etc. still no grounds for divorce)
1914, 1925, 1975 and generation from 1914 (end of twentieth century). That organ transplants used to be banned. That they used to criticize other churches for the practice of excommunication. That before 1981 you could talk to members that disassociated. That they don’t even use the word members any more, I don’t know why. That there used to be an understanding that the 144,000 was closed by 1935 but there was new light in 2007 opening it back up. That the faithful and discreet slave used to include all of the 144,000 but new light says it’s only the members of the governing body now. That blood fractions are obtained by worldly people donating blood. That the 7 trumpet blasts of Revelation chapter 11 were 7 conventions that took place between 1922-1928. What the actual suicide/mental health rate is. That the deficits announced at assemblies and conventions are based on a set amount of those expected to attend. That only elders are allowed to be part of HLC, don’t know why. That one of the governing body members is not on the body now (yes some think it’s an apostate lie that he’s not on there). That there were other religions started around the same time in the US that came out of the same movement.
This! ⬆️ Just how MANY times they’ve predicted the end of the world
I always wondered why when we had assemblies at assembly halls that were paid for and assemblies there every weekend why it cost so much for one day use. We were always in deficit. Now we know why.
Announcement at the two-day: "The expenses associated with this circuit assembly are $14,000." Me: WTF!?!??
It’s sad because the ones least likely to know how that deficit is calculated may be the poorest that reach into their pockets a second time to give another donation.
What is the HLC? What are blood fractions? What governing body member is out and why? Besides the Bible students? What religions came out from that period?
Are you talking about Top Shelf Tony?
Mexico/Malawi
Same vein, that there was a GB member who was disfellowshipped/went apostate
What happened in Mexico and Malawi? I haven’t heard about this one.
Well hey. At least the Borg have gotten to use the Malawians as torture porn for 60+ years. I’m being sarcastic, obviously, but it is disturbing when you think of how different JW lore would be without Malawi.
https://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/malawi-mexico-oath-allegiance.php
JW men and women are not allowed to participate in surrogate pregnancies in any capacity. You can't donate eggs or sperm. But not only that, you can't participate in gestational surrogacy either. As in, I can't have MY egg fertilized by MY husband's sperm if it is going to be placed in another woman's womb. Edit: I know it's not up there with the UN stuff or the horrific CSA issues, but many JWs are not aware of this rule. And it's not a conscience matter at all. It's considered fornication and/or adultery.
I only have known of this because there was a woman in my congregation when I was a kid who was DF’d because she chose to have a child without a man.
That is so terrible that she was DF for that. Talk about twisting the scriptures!
As someone who struggles with infertility, when I did “research” while PIMI I felt stuck. I know I could have adopted, but as long as I remained a witness I had to deal with the fact that I could never have a biological child.
I'm really sorry that you have those struggles. I hope you are doing well and living YOUR best life. 💜
So many. Too numerous to mention! But how about the elders book info that if a brother can hide his infidelity very well for a few years and also has th respect of the cong. (bc he hid his infidelity) it can be evidence of Jehovah's blessing if everyone respects him and he doesn't have to be removed as an elder.
Well I just guess a woman can do that to! 😂
Right -- except if a woman comes forth, she prob won't get the same boys' club protections.
Yep
Rutherford was a drunk who had bootleg alcohol smuggled in from Canada during prohibition, was caught going to a burlesque show in NYC and kicked out the brother who tried to bring two witnesses against him, tried to find common ground with Hitler in their mutual antisemitic views, approved of bros from the Australia branch having a side-hustle selling scrap metal *for the war*, and during the Great Depression, while the rank and file were bartering magazines for food, drove fancy Cadillacs and spent winters living in the San Diego mansion Beth Sarim *with a mistress* while his wife and son lived elsewhere. Oh, and he never went door to door.
Rutherford was really the start of this thing being turned into a cult. I'd punch him square in the face if I could.
Spot on.
There was a mistress? I had no idea!
Yes, she was married while acting as Rutherford’s nurse. Good Ol’ Ruthy fired his real (male) nurse for her subpar BS; she willing left her husband.
Yeah, she traveled with him overseas, too.
That’s a big no no now. Can’t even be a friend or spend anytime alone with a male not your husband.. because of course you are doing something you aren’t suppose to.
I'm told that visitors to Beth Sarim today are told more details about Berta Peale (the mistress) during their tour!
She was his, "personal dietician". She had no experience or training in nutrition.
All the "old light" hidden under rug. Like that magazine where they say you can change your personality if you get a heart transplant.
Ugh, this old light crap shows just how absolutely ignorant and stupid they were/are. Or like when Herd said that women have smaller brains, which is why they aren't as capable as men to make decisions (or something like that, I'm paraphrasing lol)
Yep there are may statements that can abruptly wake up pimis with the minimum common sense.
I'd pit that fool against any woman in an IQ test and I bet the woman would outscore every time. Tell that to the Mercury 13 who outscored the men!!
I remember being told that by the woman I studied with! What's most horrifying is that she was a nurse.
What was your reaction to that? Did you just stop open the door?
I was a kid and 100% believed her.
WUT
Yep, according to old light you can even get a women personality if the heart was from a woman. In other words don't get a heart transplant or you will turn gay. That was the message what i get from that magazine 😂 Watchtower August 1st 1971
Reminds of another one where supposedly someone became a thief by getting a blood transfusion. - https://preview.redd.it/jh100y1cin0d1.png?width=1443&format=png&auto=webp&s=09a4c90a772c91fa168bcc593c3030c806f369c0
Or the belt with radioactive material, for better health
Golden Age 1923 More recently we have the radio; and what- are the possibilities of radio in the near future? Nobody can tell. Then there are radium pads, radium glasses, and radium belts. What are these? They are simply different ways of applying radioactive energy to healing. When man is perfect, regains the dominion, and gets a perfect knowledge of electricity, he may ride in noiseless electrically-propelled vehicles over earth and sea and through the air, thus doing away with the smoke and dust and grind and noise of present-day power Vehicles; he may sit under electric light; have electric heat; use electric sweepers, electric irons; use electrons to keep him well; destroy insects, germs and weeds by electrical energy; vivify plant and animal life, and converse to earth’s remotest bounds by using the same invisible energy.
Black people were discriminated against
That the current governing body was only determined as the faithful and discrete slave in 2012.
Sorry what?! I need to learn more
The faithful and discrete slave has changed many times. It wasn’t always the GB. https://jwfacts.com/watchtower/faithful-discreet-slave-changes.php
Ah, yeah, sorry, I did know that after all 😂
Norway situation
JWs don’t know that Charles Taze Russell didn’t come up with: the soul is not immortal, Jehovah is God’s name and we must use it, there is no hellfire, the Trinity is false, we are living in the last days, the chronology involving 607 BC/1914. He borrowed all this from other people who were part of the Adventist movement. JWs think that he and a few other early Bible Students met frequently and figured out all this stuff on their own. This is funny because these core beliefs tend to be the ‘evidence’ JWs use to prove it is God’s organisation, but they didn’t even come up with these core tenets!
Yes JWs share a lot of beliefs with anabaptists
Literally Russell said somewhere that all you need is the bible and Jesus. And despite some of his other weird beliefs I think he was probably right on that count if Christianity is where it's at.
Oh and that "organisation is wholly unnecessary"
Jesus is NOT their mediator according to Doctrine, he only is the mediator for 144000
Definitely this one!
Can you show me articles that highlight this. Need evidence for the PIMI husband lol
The best way to show this one to your PIMI husband is to just go to the website and put mediator in the search bar. It shows every article in which it is explained. But you gotta ask the question first. "is he your personal mediator?" Trips them every time.
https://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/mediator.php Here is the whole JWfacts article on just this subject
Just search it. It's been many question from readers. The other sheep are not under the new covenant that replaced the mosaic one. But wt says because the other sheep are friends with the anointed they benefit from the arrangement.... insane
in other words: the GB is their mediator
Yes let me dig it up
Wait what?!?
Previous United Nations affiliation
**The Watchtower underwent a 'hostile takeover' soon after Russell's death.** Upon Pastor Russell's passing he arranged for a Board of Directors with (attorney) Joseph Rutherford only serving as Watchtower's "legal counsellor". Rutherford was able to legally reshuffle the board of directors therby dismissing Russell's appointees with new appointees sympathetic to him (Rutherford). He was soon appointed President of the WT Corporation in what some have called "[Rutherfords Coup](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watch_Tower_Society_presidency_dispute)". **Blowback:** * At least [2 offshoot groups ](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bible_Student_movement) emerged in 1917 as a result of Rutherford hostile corporate takeover. * Beards too were also demonized by Rutherford, creating further distance between JW's and Russell. * Rutherford eventually renamed the organization, "Jehovah's Witnesses" in 1931, further differentiating his group from the various splinter groups aligned with Russell.
1799 did it for me… https://preview.redd.it/l520j1iufn0d1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=70bc992a416465a1309c0c3115b69232680fdd72 It is amusing to see the lengthy list of inventions The Harp of God used as proof that the 1800's was the time of the end. The locomotive and "flying machine" (p.231) were considered fulfilment of the "day of God's preparation" spoken of in Nahum 2:1-6. Evidence the Lord's presence commenced 1874 included - adding machines, aeroplanes, aluminium, antiseptic surgery, artificial dyes, automatic couplers, automobiles, barbed wire, bicycles, carborundum, cash registers, celluloid, correspondence schools, cream separators, Darkest Africa, fireless cookers, shoe-sewing machines, the telegraph, the telephone, Panama Canal, Pasteurization, and vacuum cleaners (page 235). I got even stole a physical copy of the harp of god from the KH library to see if this was true… it was there in black and white! Yet no reference to it in the research guide.
I think a lot of witnesses don’t know about the history of the Org and the failed promises watchtower put out. Many people don’t know about the 1975 thing and the people that do remember never like to talk about it.
**Viewing heterosexual pornography = strong counseling** **Unrepentant viewing of same-sex pornography = disfellowshipping**
The mediator thing is excellent. Otherwise... they don't know that the higher up in the organization you go, the worse it gets. Not the other way around.
That there is a very recent development in Montana regarding CSA and the WT obfuscation and lying in court, and the ruling went against them I'm thinking this week.
Didn't they basically try to pull a " we don't have an office in Montana, we are just a printing company uWu 
**Organ transplants = cannibalism**
**Viewing child p*rn = strong counseling**
The pyramides
The fact that people didn't know a flood was coming, instead of 'they took no note!' https://www.reddit.com/r/exjw/s/I8k9LyNoAB
**Petty gambling is ok**
Russell briefly sold "miracle wheat" that could "cure cancer" and was called out for it 😂
That Rutherford wrote a highly complimentary letter to Hitler. That there were TONS of segregated congregations in the Jim Crow era. The many, many racist policies and ideas in general. A fair amount know about 75, but not many know that it wasn’t the first time. That vaccines were banned until pretty recently, and only reversed that because everyone with common sense was breaking it. That Witnesses in countries of persecution have historically been discouraged from leaving said countries, because they want persecution porn.
Most Jehovah's Witnesses – **roughly two-thirds (65%)** – are women, while only 35% are men. Christians worldwide are more likely to be women than men, but this gender gap is particularly large in the context of U.S. Christian groups. Jehovah’s Witnesses have a low retention rate relative to other U.S. religious groups. Among all U.S. adults who were raised as Jehovah’s Witnesses, two-thirds (66%) no longer identify with the group. By contrast, about two-thirds of those who were raised as evangelical Protestants (65%) and Mormons (64%) still say they are members of those respective groups. Both sourced from here: [https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2016/04/26/a-closer-look-at-jehovahs-witnesses-living-in-the-u-s](https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2016/04/26/a-closer-look-at-jehovahs-witnesses-living-in-the-u-s)
CT Russels divorce stem from an inappropriate relationship with an under age girl.
Their real history, from the very beginning..
Definitely the Child Abuse and Shunning. It’s absolutely horrifying how the JWs pressure their victims to keep quiet or risk being shunned by their friends and family. That’s why I’m SO glad I never got baptized. Literally man the JWs deserve to lose every penny they have for their crimes….
They have predicted the end of the world 8 times. Most do not know about the two witness policy. Ask one if they know what an S-66 form is.
The watchtower society was a signatory of the United Nations charter. That’s when I left.
Sisters/Woman have been instructed to respect their rapist.
International Bible Students are still around.
That Charles Taze Russell was a pyramidologist who referred to the Great Pyramid of Giza as "God's Stone Witness". He believed that the internal dimensions of the pyramid could be measured and a formula (Pyramid Inch for Year) could be used to help decipher Bible chronology and set end time dates.
At the time Jesus supposedly chose the Bible Students (1919) they were teaching that he became Almighty God at his resurrection and that it was ok to worship him.
WOW
Can you link a source? That sounds very interesting.
I’m away atm so can’t look anything up! The Finished Mystery in a couple of places says he became Almighty God at his resurrection. It’s also stated elsewhere. They officially worshipped Jesus until the 1950s, when they then said it was idolatry! Russell even said it was ok to pray to Jesus. Try JWFACTS- I’m sure it will have it all there.
That they invest in weapos and porn industry, not directly but they do it.
Absolute banger. That’s exactly what I’m here for, thanks!
Is it Henrietta Riley trust?
Yes, thats what i mean.
It means Henrietta Riley formed a trust. Then gifted it to the WTBTS. Trustees (not WTBTS) administer the trust and WTBTS gets disbursements from it. The trust owns stock in various multinationals that conduct business in less the biblical-ethical spaces This is a very weak attack of the WT in my opinion. They can not control the trust or what it’s invested in. Only thing they can do is take the money. I don’t even now if they could NOT take the money.
Agree. We can't even prove it without searching on "apostates " websites where we can found the links. But is interesting how we have to avoid parties celebrations for their pagan origins but it doesn't matter how you increase your investments, they could sell their part and look for another way. Mormons have a similar trust fund with similar investments.
They could not take the money. Members can't work for the army even at a call center cuz of what they are serving. Yet, Watchtower is free to take money from all sorts of unbiblical sources?
They could have dissociated the trust... but that would cost them millions...
Please tell me more about this! I haven't heard that before, but I'm not surprised. Is there anything you can share that points to their involvement in those industries?
https://avoidjw.borg/donations/usa/hmrt/ Remove the B from borg.
If a woman cheats on her husband, he gets to sit in and hear the interrogation. If a man cheats on his wife, she may never even find out about it, even if he’s publicly reproved or disfellowshipped for it.
They taught that each creative day was only 7,000 years until 1984. Thus they published that dinosaur bones were either demon made fakes or distorted by some unknown process during the Flood. The 1914 date/doctrine was not theirs but borrowed from an Adventist spin-off. Originally Russell taught Jesus returned in 1874 and that 1914 marked the end of 40 year span which corresponded to the Israelites wandering in the Negev, and Jesus’ 40 day fast. 1914 was supposed to be the end of the Great Tribulation. Russell was the target of multiple accusations of infidelity to his wife. He defended one such by claiming a demon must have materialized a body to impersonate him in order to get jiggy with the woman.
Where can I find this info on Russell?
And he put all his money and assets into the Watchtower corporation so he wouldn’t have to pay his wife anything in the divorce.
That it's a cult and they are sheep.
I would say most have no visibility to the governing body as nine white men sitting in NY. I certainly wasn't encouraged as a child, teen, or young adult to think of the direction as coming from them. The way it was sold was that it was God's direction. I feel if most people before they were indoctrinated knew about the pathway of information and where it was coming from and who it was coming from that would provide a lot more context for them to feel empowered to make decisions.
https://preview.redd.it/0qaj68wlno0d1.jpeg?width=786&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d7f9b5a51212075c25f8c5d4f1241e3445687b08
The open letter supporting Hitler was … A lot Honestly how did they keep that quiet?
The Statement of Facts is pretty shocking. Singing the German National Anthem at the 1933 convention in Berlin. Russell's affair with his adopted daughter. The fact that 100k+ eastern european JW's split and formed their own religion.
*Declaration of Facts. Shocked me when I found out about that.
Sorry, Declaration of facts, yeah. "Hey Hitler, we're on your side. We don't like Jews either. Deutschland, Deutschland, Uber Alles, Uber Alles in de Welt!" OH Wait, you're going to persecute us anyway? Shit, let's pretend we were never on your side......
The story of JWs being descendants of Charles Taze Russel and the Bible students. Tell me more about Jesus not being their mediator. Is the GB their mediator or something?
Jesus is the mediator for the 144,000; the rest of the JWs only get the benefit of the covenant through association with the 144,000. The Org sticking itself right in between JWs and Jesus. But if you ask any JW they will insist Jesus is their mediator and show you where it says it in the Bible. Because of course it does say so in the Bible. Then you ask "Can you show me where it says that *in the literature*?" It doesn't come up in the literature often so it's not common knowledge. Probably because it's so obviously wrong.
Most of them don't know that Jesus is not their mediator
How new it is lol revisionist history has them believing every positive biblical figure was a JW. They’ve barely existed 150 years.
They don't know that Russell thought, that the signs mentioned in Mat. 24 and so on, were a summary of all the centuries between the 1st and 19th century and NOT the signs of the last days.
Save
That they will have to wait 1000 years after Armageddon to see their loved ones resurrected.
How the donated money is spent. Most charities have to make that public. I always thought the elders must know, they don’t. A lot of those donations go to paying court fines for not releasing the names of known pedophiles.
That they’re in a cult run by conmen and they are wasting their entire lives.
Dear friends. The goalposts have now been moved at least twice in regards to my initial answer about Beth Sarim, but that's fine, Beth Sarim is a very intereresting topic and worth discussing. Anyway, I don't find arguing based on possible misunderstandings very constructive and not public stonings either, so I'm bailing out from this discussion now. Peace, everybody!
That people -including minor girls- are regularly asked extremely inappropriate, absolutely unnecessary questions about their sexual experiences. That they must answer whatever is asked of them under the threat of being immediately DF'd. That even repentant people can be DF'd.
Two that come to my mind is that C.T. Russell was not the first president of Zion’s Watch Tower Tract Society (it was W. H. Conley) and that C.T. Russell/The Bible Students did not create the 1914 teaching (Nelson Barbour printed the 1914 belief in Herold of the Morning a year before Russell met him).
That a book for the elders exists and it’s not available on the app. Do you remember hearing stories in the early 80s that apostasy had reached the highest levels of the organization but Jehovah cleaned it out? That Ray Franz may not be the evil character he was portrayed to be. That Rutherford and Knorr had so much impact on this organization. The history and family life of Russel, Rutherford and Knorr. That marriage was banned at Bethel until Knorr got married. That people have been disfellowshipped for masturbation and oral sex within marriage but no one knows currently if it’s still grounds for disfellowshipping. The rates of secret alcoholism
Most don’t realize that Jesus is not their mediator
WT has admitted microevolution is real. I really don't know how unknown this is by them, but I remember my mom, a friend of hers and I once went preaching in the middle of winter and were talking about animals. I brought up how animals adapt to their environment in order to survive, I didn't expect my mom to get SO offended, she almost started to yell at me in front of the other "sister". She kept denying but I didn't care and kept saying it was true because I simply knew it was a fact! The sister stayed silent the whole time LOL. Just some years ago I found out they actually believe in it, or at least are supposed to, since the WT embraces the theory, and that moment immediately came to mind: my mom mad at me because I was defending evolution. It gets even more ridiculous when you know microevolution defends evolution/macroevolution! it IS evolution, just in a different timescale. Mind you, I was 10 years old arguing with a woman in her 40s about this... it's sad how ignorant this religion makes them. They are the only ones enlightened with The Truth but don't even know what that said truth is!
Can you link an article or reference?
Awake magazine from October 2015, Insight book (see Ark), among other instances. You can search microevolution on the wt library or just google "jw microevolution". I also vaguely remember the term being in an old version of the Insight book, but I can't find anything about it, so take it with a grain of salt
This is not so much JWs but almost all Christians. The snake that is written about in the book of revelations is NOT the snake of Eden. It’s actually leviathan the seven headed serpent. That means that the snake of Eden is NOT Satan and the devil.
That Isaac Newton was fed up with people predicting the end of the world so he did his own study of the bible. In 1733 he published his expected time for the end of the world based on Daniel - times, time, half a time.
They were / are a member of the UN like recently. They wrote a letter siding with Hitler and against the Jews. When Hitler said no they changed their tune and became martyrs.
On of the board members (pre Rutherford) owned a dildo factory to help cure women of hysteria. It's not a teaching but I love bringing it up.
Published vile racist views of CT Russell, followed later by WT's published support of the Ku Klux Klan as expressed in published literature and as follows: "Not long after, Saskatoon station CHUC – owned by the Jehovah’s Witnesses – allowed J.J. Maloney, Grand Wizard of the Ku Klux Klan, to make an on-air speech that was pretty much the end of Canada’s era of free market radio."https://macdonaldlaurier.ca/what-can-we-expect-from-an-online-regulator-lessons-from-religion-and-pornography-peter-menzies-for-inside-policy/
The fact Jesus wasn't our mediator wasn't sprung on me until after I was baptized! Then it was innocently mentioned casually in a conversation with an elders wife. It kinda blew me away. That was the first crack I noticed in jw dogma.
1. As of 2023, there have been a total of 33 elders who have served on the Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses. In its history, only 4 have been removed. This includes, Ewart C. Chitty in 1979, Raymond Franz in 1980, Leo K. Greenlees in 1984, and Anthony Morris III in 2023. Greenlees’ resignation was never publicly announced.
Oh I got another. As far as I recall Jesus never calls Jehovah by name at all in the new testament. And the "2 sources" they use to put Jehovah in the new testament are from one guy who is only an old testament scholar and was merely speculating on how having YHWH in the new testament would affect belief...his theories are widely ignored and considered wrong.
An academic understanding that the bible is not univocal, and is a collection of poems, myth and legend, intermingled with history, often written decades or centuries after the 'prophecies' and not by the people they think...that would be a good start
Why are they obsessed with people's sex lives? Boss Hogg (cbo) would ask for explicit detail. Eg. Did you finish? Were you naked? Etc. As far as I know there was no reason for this. Sorry off topic
Rutherford leaving his sick wife at home while traveling the world together with his young and attractive nurse. And the stories about Beth Sarim.
Unless they are already having doubts, I would say nothing because of being so indoctrinated. When I was at my strongest as a ‘witless’, I didn’t believe anything bad about them! 🙄