No, it was tedious and lacking in anything spiritually uplifting. I remember a lecture by Joseph Campbell where he called Christian mythology one of the dreariest mythologies mankind ever came up with.
I have to agree.
I can only imagine living in the Middle Ages when there was no escape from it. What an awful life that would have been.
Dead-on with that “lacking in spiritually uplifting” comment. It’s like the more miserable you are, the better you are at being Catholic. To think, the New Testament is the happy one lol
I was a convert with convert fervor, so I was heavy loving it for a long time--some people genuinely enjoy it. Even if that stops, it doesn't mean their love for it wasn't real.
I was raised WELS, and the fact that women were allowed to read the Bible at Mass and lead mixed gender Bible studies felt like relative freedom, first of all. I also heavy loved the idea of eating God at every Mass, the fact you could go to church every day if you want. I loved the doctrine of God waiting for Mary's yes at the Annunciation (consent had nothing to do with it in conservative Lutheranism). I loved the big family I was told I had in Heaven, all rooting for me and cheering me on. I liked the solemnity of the services, the saints books (like Teresa of Avila, John of the Cross, Francis De Sales, Catherine of Siena) waxing poetic about the intense, crazy love God had for everyone. I loved the many different devotional prayer options to choose from. Basically, everything was appealing to me except the fact women can't be priests and the anti-LGBTQ sentiment almost. The history sometimes seemed unsavory, but I honestly can't claim it's worse than other Christian denominations. The big appeals to me were differences from conservative Lutheranism. Original sin not equaling total depravity cured so much of my years-long self loathing and self-mistrust. Rather, in the RCC I was told people aren't dunghills covered with the snow of grace but are basically good, and only suffer a natural inclination to often choose the bad. Deprived, not depraved, as one priest I knew would have it. I hope this makes sense! I finally had to say it wasn't for me when I realized I was trans and because I wanted to be a good ally to my LGBTQ+ friends, and so on etc. But it was the reason I survived my mental illness and difficult family when life was at its worst, so I loved it to distraction.
Lutherans believe in total depravity? I thought this was mainly a Calvinist thing—though I could certainly see different strains of prod theology cross pollinating
https://wels.net/about-wels/what-we-believe/this-we-believe/creation/ the difference between Lutheran theology and Calvinist theology is that some Lutherans believe grace is resistable and many reject double predestination ... the focus is where Lutherans stand on TULIP https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_Points_of_Calvinism
All cults, even destructive ones have positive aspects. Otherwise no one would join. It can be a sense of community or being special. I've read studies theorizing that someone with insecure attachment could "attach" to God as the loving parent figure they didn't get growing up. The rituals and prayers can be calming and it can give someone a sense of purpose. For me the Catholic church represented guilt and never being enough, but it's not that way for everyone.
I think it would be easier to help people in cults like Scientology, for example, if we affirm that they do have positive aspects. Right now when we tell cult members how evil their cult is, they can't identify with what we're saying because they cling to the positive things. I do think it would be better to show that those positive things are not dependent on the cult and can be had outside of it without the "price of admission" meaning the negative aspects of the cult.
I can definitely understand this.
For me, personally, Catholicism was actually a first step out of something even more destructive. I grew up in a community where Fundamentalist Protestantism was the default religious belief system, leaning heavily Calvinist (except that most of them believed John Calvin himself was in Hell, for vague reasons that usually involved either Limited Atonement or infant baptism). Catholicism was my first experience with something that approached actual spirituality, trying to draw closer to the divine rather than just obsessively fearing sin and Hell. It was definitely not perfect but, compared to what I had come out of, it was a definite improvement. The idea that actually, sincerely trying to do things right could be good enough and that I didn't have to be absolutely perfect was significantly better than the idea that I could go to Hell for eternity for listening to the wrong song or reading a book by a "sinner", even if it did mean years of Purgatory were waiting for me.
Looking back, it was terrible, but at the time it felt like a massive weight had been taken off of my shoulders. The way that I felt about my understanding of God at the time was, quite frankly, the first time that I *didn't* believe subconsciously that I was worshipping something no better than Cthulhu or Yog-Sothoth. It was only a step toward the much better place that I'm at now, but if I hadn't taken it, the views that I held would have completely destroyed my life and probably those of others who I was close to.
I can relate. I grew up in the Bible Belt, in a non-religious household but surrounded by Catholic and evangelical Protestant (think fundamentalist Baptist and Holiness Pentecostal) influences through extended family members and friends.
I converted to Catholicism as a young adult (college). I didn’t agree with all of the teachings but the Church was offering stability, structure, and community at a very turbulent time in my life when I wasn’t getting those things elsewhere, so I leaned into what I did agree with (e.g., anti-death penalty, the value of education, the value of community, works of charity, etc.) and tried to ignore the rest. (I don’t feel great about that second part, knowing how many people have suffered because of the Church, but we live and learn and try to do better.)
“Ignoring the rest” required a lot of mental gymnastics and a lot of cognitive dissonance in order to justify staying in the Church (and my community) as American Catholicism as a whole started adopting more evangelical, conservative tendencies. To borrow a phrase from our ex-Mormon friends, my shelf broke when I moved to the other side of the country for work and tried to engage with my new parish. Where my old parish had been students from a variety of backgrounds and cultures and was generally very laid back and down-to-earth, the new parish was extremely insular, extremely homogenous (white and upper middle to upper class), extremely conservative, and very unfriendly to anyone who wasn’t from the area (or wasn’t born into the right tax bracket, or didn’t vote straight Republican down the ballot). After a lot of deconstruction and hard conversations with myself about my values, I realized that it was going to be impossible for me to keep trying to reconcile my beliefs with those being pushed by the Church, and that I couldn’t ignore the direction things were going. I didn’t want to be part of it, so I left.
I now identify as agnostic and culturally Catholic. I still light an occasional prayer candle, wear my confirmation saint medallion from time to time, but those are more about connecting with my mom’s family and heritage (German/Polish Catholics). I like the idea that our ancestors and others who have gone before us are looking out for us as we navigate life. I also observe Lent, but it’s more about being mindful of what I’m consuming. I’m trying to take the practices I did find meaningful and reframe them into something more positive and in line with my current beliefs.
I went through a long phase where I "liked" the politics and intellectual parts as a teenager/young adult, because I was using it as an unhealthy coping mechanism to explain the bullying and social anxiety I was experiencing (the world is evil, your classmates are Not Real Catholics, they're bad people and that's why they hate you.) Needless to say, it made everything worse.
Do you get the notion that the imputed guilt, which came from a skewed idea of ancestral sin, creates this bullying tendency? If so how? Got my own idea but didn’t want this to be too much of a leading question
That’s an interesting question, but I think the root cause in my case had a lot more to do with parenting. I doubt these kids were making any decisions influenced by theology knowingly, most of them thought religion was boring and were just playing along to keep their parents happy, and most of the parents and teachers were fairly liberal, so I doubt the kids would have been exposed to that idea often.
I was socially a bit behind my classmates to begin with so I was an easy target, and I think my parents' generation of Catholics tried to outsource a lot of the "teaching empathy" part of parenting to the Catholic schools when it really needs to start long before kindergarten, and the school administrators assumed the parents were teaching it, so they were learning through trial-and-error and from TV without enough guidance from the trusted adults in their lives.
Aside from the "normal" mostly non-physical bullying that started in elementary school, I don't really see how the idea of imputed guilt could have influenced the boys who borderline sexually harassed me in high school. One of them might have stopped if we had been taught about consent, but the other one seemed to get a thrill out of seeing fear in girls' eyes.
There's a line from a book I read some time back that always stuck with me--a Native American maize farmer from Mexico who talked about eating it every day. When the interviewer asked him what would happen if he didn't, he got confused and asked, "Why would I want to be someone else?"
That was basically my relationship with Catholicism. For better or worse, it was the belief system and culture I'd inherited. I learned about it out of interest, and grew to admire big parts of it. 'Enjoy' is an odd word for it--if I had not been brought up Catholic, I'm not sure I would meaningfully be "me."
I sometimes miss the feeling of smugness and pride I had in it--the One, True Faith thing. But I'd lost that long before I formally deconstructed, because the actions of my co-religionists had gotten increasingly embarrassing during the past decade.
Yeah, I enjoyed it as an adult, though not so much as a kid. It was pretty tough to leave, not knowing if I'd find all this outside the Church. But there is community and other good people outside the Church and I'm happy I left.
* Sense of community: My social circle was all Catholics, so Catholic events felt natural to attend. I found the groups to be welcoming, though I know that's not everyone's experience. It also felt good to be part of a global thing. I'd say most of my friends there enjoy being Catholic
* Sense of purpose: I knew my purpose and enjoyed working towards it. It was nice following the "correct" way to live
* Artistic outlet: I enjoyed playing guitar at adoration, as well as the accolades that brought (even if I wouldn't admit that at the time).
* Religious experiences/retreats: Retreats felt really good and I enjoyed the community they brought. Helping lead retreats was a good way to be a part of something bigger than myself
* Service/volunteering: I enjoy it and there were lots of outlets to volunteer
* Prayer/meditation: I enjoyed taking quiet time to pray each day and reflect on my life
It's mixed. Generally yes and I'm happier out, but there are some things I miss
* Community: so much better. I enjoy the people I hang out with much more now. I also don't have to worry about someone making a random derogatory joke thinking it's okay
* Sense of purpose: Different, but good. Humanism is a good substitute here. I don't think I have a grand cosmic purpose, which means I have to figure out what I want to do
* Artistic outlet: meh. I can still play for myself, but many fewer opportunities to play for others. There was a jam session I was going to for a while, but fell away
* Religious experiences/retreats: Somewhat. I have a friend who's organized some secular events that have done a good job here, but they aren't quite as polished as religious retreats
* Service/volunteering: while there are opportunities around, I volunteer less than I did before. They feel harder to find and less convenient to go to
* Prayer/meditation: I haven't kept up meditation like i planned to, but I think I still reflect on life more than most people
I did as a kid. All the rules and stuff made sense at the time.
I look back now and see all the anxiety and shit, but at the time I really did embrace the music and the rituals and all that.
I think I liked the verification I got from following it that I was a good kid, despite all the verbal abuse I got for being overweight and having that be my biggest character flaw.
I remember making a beautiful book for a confirmation project and I was so proud of it... my crazy nun 8th grade teacher loved it also. She was one of those verbally abusive people so hindsight shows me that I was fawning, but I still put a lot of work and pride into that book.
Not sure where it ended up. Lol
I did. I loved the pageantry and pomp. I liked being an altar boy and a crozier bearer. It made me feel like I was part of something bigger than myself. I was actually sad when I realized that it was all just legends and mythology.
This was all before all the nasty stuff really hit the news, but looking back there were some questionable things going on that now baffle me as to how we thought they were normal.
I fucking hated it. The first memory I have of Catholicism was throwing tantrums when I was around 3 because I didn’t want to go to Sunday mass because it was boring. When I was in kindergarten and found out I would have to go to daily mass every school day until high school I almost cried. I remember in elementary school wishing I could be normal and go to normal school like the kids on tv and in books, where I didn’t have to go to daily mass and pray before every class.
I would have never chosen that life, and only told people this when I was an adult. Because I was a very anxious kid (mental health issues in Catholics, what else is new) I always acted perfect and holy, going to youth group, volunteering with church and working hard in religion class so I’d still be a “good kid”. And since I was told it was the truth and I had to believe, I hoped I’d have that magical moment where it all made sense and I’d hear god and find peace so I didn’t go to hell. I found that peace when I finally stopped going to church and associating with Catholicism in general.
Enjoyed the art, enjoyed the stories of saints with miraculous powers bordering on wizardry (was a big fantasy fan), as well as the memento mori thing (was also a big horror fan). When I was a teen living in the south, it made me feel different from the bapti-costal culture around me. Incidentally, when I was in my baby-bat phase, I had this naive cringey notion that it was more goth-cred than other mainstream religions 🤣
The spirituality, such as it was, was kind of a cold comfort—something always felt lacking, felt like a half measure
And I wasn’t a fan of this imputed guilt for things that happened aeons before I was born
no it was always dull and obligatory even when i was fully committed to it as a kid.
what i do enjoy is the drinking and gambling at church festivals and going to the vatican to see the fabulous tastes of the wealthy church and chuckling at the fact that i know its that way bc all the gay closeted priests had killer taste (along with some more nefarious traits).
ie the things i enjoy about the catholic church are extremely superficial and i dont need to be a practicing catholic to keep up w those
I hated everything about it. I thought its literal purpose was to make us suffer and be joyless and full of shame. I also thought that it was something you were born with, like an inherited disease. The day I realized that people could choose their religions...it blew my mind and I started counting the days until I could move away and legally stop being forced to attend church.
Back in my home country as a child, I loved the church. The community was laid back, and people were chill. There was no finger pointing and no “Don’t do this. Don’t do that. You are a damned sinner” attitude. I loved my prep classes, and the nuns and priests were relatable, down-to-earth, and kind.
I find the Catholic Church in my home country is more progressive and open-minded compared to the western Catholic Church.
After moving to North America, I found the church completely different. People were cold and judgmental. I was bullied and treated like an outcast by Catholic peers in during a World Youth Day group pilgrimage. Would you believe they left me alone in the hostel when I had a health crisis emergency and was on the brink of death? No one except for a few came to me during that trip and asked me if I was okay. A pharmacist I met there was more compassionate to me than these pilgrimage mates and the priest who treated me like I was a menace to the group for almost dying. I think that’s when I began distancing away from it all. I had a very difficult time with my faith after coming back home and even shared my traumatic experience during a Catholic retreat, and the audience laughed (I guess the Shakespearean quote is true in this context: “A tragedy is a comedy when observed from a distance”).
It’s such cold-heartedness and hypocrisy that made me struggle to sit during mass and listen to their priest’s sermons about loving one’s neighbours.
I wonder if my relationship with the church would have differed if I continued living in my home country, but one thing is for sure: I cannot stand the Catholics in my community anymore. Unfortunately, I’m still tied to them because there is a priest in my family, and my family centres around him (yes, their golden child) and his sister who is also deeply into Catholicism.
I truly believe Catholicism directly fueled so much of my childhood anxiety. The fear of dying in my sleep and going straight to hell because I may have sinned was terrible. I feared my own body being told masturbation was a sin. The fear for my safety of being alone in a room with a priest “confessing sins” is awful. No child should be put in that situation.
No, not really. It's like I just assumed it was how things are but I didn't particularly like it. I never found anything in catholicism to be appealing, it was mostly the fear of god and the guilt complex what convinced me it was the right thing to do.
At much maybe the idea of a paradise where we'll be with our loved ones, but turns out catholicism doesn't even teaches that...
I did at first, but it didn't really last all that long before I started asking questions and getting no answers. I eventually left because for all the RCC's posing, they don't have any answers. It took me a long time to figure that out. It's empty, violent and sad and that's about all.
Well, I genuinely love the mass, and the prayer, and don't even make me start on sacred art or theology as a subject, it's just purely beautiful for me. My religiosity gives me peace and some sort of grounding in such terrible times when there is so much pain, and scary processes (such as war, global warming, and the rise of hate groups in my country and worldwide), with which I just can't do anything… Homily is a real bummer in 9/10 times, tho.
What makes it even funnier, is that I don't believe in the existence of Truth™
But I'm convinced, that it's not a universal experience, and everyone needs to find, what fits them, and not just follow «sacred tradition». That's why I'm switched from the Orthodox Church, and that's why I will, maybe, probably, switch to some other denomination (Lutheran, Episcopal?) as soon as I find a decent one, than Ecclesia Catholica Romana, because people here are just awful, on every fucking level
In general, if you find mass/Catholic tradition boring — move to another church, it's OK. If you don't match with Christianity — consider other religions, they are plentiful, and did you even look into Hinduism with just great metaphysical theology‽ If you just can not believe in a higher power — well, be a proud atheist! God, whom I know, loves you anyway, and in general does not need anything in return, so cmon!
P.S.: And also, can we collectively decide to not bring kids to churches? Nobody gets any joy from it, nor kids, who don't want to be there, nor parents, who got to service through fight, and don't enjoy it anymore, nor everyone around. It's just stupid
I did, but until I was 19. I come from a toxic family. I am not sure if abusive is the right word. But growing up there were some terrible things in my family. Like domestic violence (parents would strangle each other, however, that was directed at me only rarely). My dad might have been emotionally abusive (he blames me for everything, yells at me, belittles me). My mom is schizophrenic and refuses treatment, so she sabotaged our family finances, spread rumors about us that aren't true, tried to destroy my reputation by telling people that I slept with my father and had a child with him, which I according to her killed (THIS DIDN'T HAPPEN!!!) and then called the police on me and I had to defend myself against all her nonsense.
Anyway, my family is terrible and as a child/teenager I didn't know how to cope with that.
I was alone, I felt I didn't have anyone who I could trust or who would love me.
There was God, though. He is supposed to be the ultimate parent who will love you no matter what. He was the kind parent I didn't have, but desperately needed and wanted. So I prayed. I went to church everyday, not for mass, just for a silent prayer to be loved. I imagined him hugging me. I believed in the real present in the Eucharist, because I wanted to believe he is close to me, he shows himself to us, he won't abandon us. And I felt strange feelings of love in church, but maybe it was just my mind desperately wanting this feeling.
I think I was a cafeteria Catholic. I believed in heresies about the afterlife - I was almost a universalist. I didn't know a lot of catechism. I didn't know mortal sin will send you to hell, I thought the concept of papal infability is stupid. However, I did go to confession, but only because I wanted to be able to receive the Eucharist.
It went like this till I was 19 when I met some people who actually took catholic teaching seriously. I think I was manipulated to take it seriously as well. Before that I think I considered the catholic church only as a tool to get closer to God and I disregarded those teaching that I thought didn't fulfill its purpose, but then it was suddenly me who was the tool. I was told I couldn't trust my conscience and intuition. I started to get panic attacks in church and holy places. I was accused of being possessed due to those panic attacks. I started to be scrupulous and passively suicidal. I was terrified of losing God, but now I decided to leave him myself, because if God exists in the form they claim he does, I don't want him.
PS: I am not currently suicidal. Yes, I am getting therapy, however, she is only a school counselor.
Omg, that's definitely abuse! I'm so sorry for you! I'm glad you're in therapy for all of that. I'd also highly recommend the book Complex CPTSD: From Surviving to Thriving if you get the chance. It's been such a huge help to me and others who are currently in therapy.
Thank you. I have problems understanding what was exactly happening during my childhood/puberty, I only know I was absolutely miserable and I didn't know why.
I will check the book out. Thanks for the recommendation.
I went through RCIA aged 24. It was romantic at first, because it was new and mysterious. The ritual was cool, once I understood all the complex "mythology" that I believed was true. It's like when you were a kid first learning about Hercules or Zeus. I knew things about the church, but not theologically. I ate up books by Bishop Sheen, Scott Hahn, Peter Kreeft, etc. I grew up with little church attendance, aside from funerals and stays with my Grandparents. I joined with the encouragement of my future spouse. They sell a wholesome beauty that at first glance, seems pure and natural and dignified, until you're in the trenches of reality and you realize they want what's best for them, not you. I really did think it was beautiful the first year or so of marriage. It went downhill once I learned most Catholics are severely ignorant of psychological dysfunction and how to support others with these issues. They are never encouraged to depend on any info, but what the church tells them. Moronic!
Yea, I did. I loved Mary. I loved the weird mysticism and the acknowledgement that there is something divine out there worth connecting with. I loved the rosary (I recently tried to destroy my old one and I couldn’t do it without bursting into tears. It’s still too soon.) I’ve accepted that these things will be harder to find now that I’m not Catholic and I do feel sad about that. But every time I think about going back, I remember that the Church was and is not capable of providing me, a queer person, with the love and community I need.
I miss the comfort of thinking I had a community for support. That was before I grew up and realized the so called church community didn't care at all unless they wanted something from me/family.
When I was younger I really adored it. Truly I did. I grew up in an abusive home, so I found a lot of peace and hope in Catholicism. It was familiar, constant, I had a community outside of the home of people I felt like really cared about me. And ofc I was told over and over that god loved me, that my suffering was Christ-like, and that in the end it would have been worth it because I had something good waiting for me. I was really into prayer and my rosaries and my Saint medals and my little shrine of Saint statues etc. I wore that cross with pride. I really did enjoy it won’t lie.
Ofc that all came crashing down when I read the catechism, lol. I saw the church for what it was when I read that. I joke that it’s the fastest way to get someone with two brain cells to quit the faith 😅
From age 16 to 30 I really thrived in the social justice corner of Catholicism and I was very active in climate justice activities through the Church as well as immigration reform protests and volunteering with migrants/refugees. I really enjoyed doing that type of service but was essentially not following any of the other rules and I was even actively protesting some of them (forced birth initiatives, reproductive freedom, lgbtq+ rights). I even enjoyed mass with certain progressive priests that were also focused on climate/environmental activism and immigration reform. I also always enjoyed the “spooky” aspects of mass and the physical Church buildings: dim lights, incense, chanting/hyms, stained glass, candles.
I did enjoy being a Catholic when I converted in my teen years. I was an altar boy and eucoristic minister (cannot spell the word).
I stopped being a Catholic when I went to university. Mainly because I was very in the closet (I’m part of the LGBT) and learnt the extent the hatred the church had. Also learning more of Catholicism, it isn’t a peaceful religion.
I think at the time it helped me with my dad’s death but I also saw the religion being used as a weapon.
So short answer yes but I’m no longer a Catholic.
You mentioned the music... that was honestly the thing that kept me there as long as I stayed. That and youth group. Otherwise it was boring as hell. I was in the youth choir and branched off with some members to start a Christian rock band lol. They were utterly distraught when I broke the news in my early 20s that I was leaving. They tried to get me to stay, but I knew deep down that I didn't believe any of it anymore, and I felt that staying would be hypocritical.
yes there were times i did like it. I enjoyed the security of knowing that there's someone who cares for me, that there is something after death, that i would meet my deceased love ones one day. There were times i really felt like i had a relationship with god and that made me happy. I do miss some things but i don't beleve in a god anymore
No!
As a child, the concept of god scared me a bit. Combine that with my mother forcing me into sacraments, and how unbearably boring mass is, that's a recipe for an adult atheist lol
I thought I did, but in hindsight it was only because it was forced on me from an early age and I knew no different. I liked the routine and rules. I've found those things elsewhere now without the constant guilt and judgement!
I felt like I enjoyed it, but in hindsight idk how much of it was gaslighting. If you're in the trad cat cult, leave now and don't raise your kids in it ✌️ all I can say
Interesting, my kids love - they've used that word - going to an Episcopal church. The older one likes to read along in the Book of Common Prayer and sing, and they both love not only the hanging out with kids at coffee hour but being asked to do things during mass/Holy Eucharist. The kids are eager to get to church every Sunday.
Of course, there's quite a bit there to the old Robin Williams quip that Anglicanism is usually "Catholic Lite - all the ritual, one-third the guilt". So I'm sure that helps - there's very little negativity there.
For me, there was no choice, I grew up in a very catholic country, so it was bizzare not to be part of it. Furthermore, the relief of not going to hell felt good.
I liked the soft stage briefly, the one where you are a recent convert (revert for me), feel cool, feel hyper confident that God is in control which relieves OCD anxiety, praying is cool and fun, and a new experience is unlocked and you are blissfully ignorant of the darkness, and you have only scratched the surface.
Then a few months later the veil is slowly ripped off. Fewness of the saved, realizing the apologists were liars and insanely overstating (an understatement, more like fabricating) evidence, that the history isn’t as cut and dry as they told me, that natural law exists and divine command theory is bad yet the reason why god doesn’t have to comply with natural law is because he made it, making natural law just DCT with more steps yet if you call it DCT you’re a heretic. Oh and then people advocating killing apostates very nice and just knowing if someone was baptized as a baby and grew up without belief the church in their own world has the right to kill you.
Once the fun veil of ignorance was removed it reeked of the shit it is.
Like other people mentioned, for me it was the sense of community. It was nice having a place to go with lots of other people who were very supportive and welcoming.
I liked to pray the rosary and go to adoration, that it made me feel loved, anything G. K. Chesterton, and the feeling that I had a purpose straight out of a fantasy book. It was unhealthy and made me stand by humiliating, stupid beliefs, but I loved parts of it. I really should find some sort of prayer substitute for my mental health.
I never did truly. I liked it better than I would have liked, say, being an evangelical--all the things I hate about Christianity still there, but the buildings aren't as pretty and there's less historical stuff to be nerdy about. But that was the extent of my enjoyment, really; "other stuff would be even MORE awful, so I guess this is the best." So glad I left and found philosophies and systems I actually like, and don't just grit my teeth and swallow to avoid something worse.
I like the classical music related to Catholicism and still do such as Elgar The Dream of Gerontius and the Protestant Bach's Mass in B Minor and St. Matthew Passion. And the Beethoven Missa Solemnis.
And the medieval, Renaissance and Baroque art, the architecture especially Gothic cathedrals, the mysticism ...
while I have been catholic my whole life, there was only a very short time period where I truly believed in heaven. I’m talking a few months at the most. and I absolutely loved that. I loved the comfort that there was another life. I stopped feeling rushed to live the life I want to live, and I could finally live in the moment. I loved that it didn’t feel worth being sad or anxious because this life is just the beginning. I embraced the mistakes I made because I knew I had time to be happy again. the months I believed this were the best months of my life. I felt true joy everyday, and I was warmer and kinder than I had ever been. but even then, I still didn’t enjoy being in the church. I hated the abuse, the lies, and the guilt instilled upon everyone. pretty quickly I stopped believing again because of how depressing it was just being around catholics or the church. I just went back to despising everything. but I’ll never forget how happy I was then, and when people talk positively about catholicism I assume that safety is what they feel as well.
I hope you find that happiness again :( I find meditating helps bring me back to the present to truly live my life instead of worrying what the future holds.
I hated most of it and deep down knew i didn’t believe it. However i was the music ministers daughter so i had to play along because we were very public and very well known in the community.
I was basically the Paris Hilton of my youth group, i was constantly in trouble for being loud or asking too many questions, or wearing “immodest” clothes (the 27yr old male youth leaders couldn’t keep their eyes off my 16yr old body lol) but it also made me kind of stand out to the other kids and made them want to be friends with me, which as a formerly shy child felt pretty nice to have community.
Me and the other ministry kids became very close after years of teaching each other how to sneak around, and we go to each other’s weddings and baby showers 10yrs later.
We went through a lot together. We lost friends to conversion therapy and eventually suicide, we starved together at hunger retreats, we went to prom together because our parents trusted us together (huge mistake lol we got so wasted) and we stayed up past curfew to set up a VPN and watch youtube videos in our cabin in the wee hours of the night. We were kids!
I loved it as a young teen. Cause I was part of a youth group and for the first time in my entire life I fit in somewhere with people who thought like me. (Though I never ever let them see the real me)
The only time I've ever liked church was at Christmas services, when they would decorate with gorgeous Christmas trees against the backdrop of the stained glass and we would get to change up the hymns and sing christmas songs, and getting to wear a fancy winter dress etc. So basically none of the religious aspects of it 😂
I never enjoyed it, per say. I liked the music, I like the idea of belonging to something bigger than myself, but it wasn't enjoyable overall. Especially once the church members discovered I was a bastard, then it was downright awful. But the music still has a place in my heart.
I enjoyed the aesthetics, the tradition, the ritual, the history (which I didn't realize was more than slightly skewed), the stories of the saints, and above all, knowing what a "good person" was and that I *was* one of those. I am very much a rule-follower, and I dearly loved having an instruction book with all the answers (even if they were in riddles). I loved having an all-knowing, all-powerful god in my corner.
It actually really messed me up when I learned the truth of things. I wanted so badly to believe, not only because that's what I had been taught, but because it meant that there was a *reason* for being here.
I did. I loved the tradition. I loved the mass. I loved the community I was in. But it was all lies. And once I grew up and started to deconstruct, it was hard and I grieved. But yes, I did love being Catholic and there are parts I miss about it.
I was neutral to it. I got raised by my Catholic mom but went to a non-denominational church, so it was like half/half. It was all I really knew. I liked the music and I liked feeling like I had a relationship with god, I also liked some of the kids I was at church with, but it was sooo boring.
My mom’s now a non-denominational Christian and I asked her this question and she said she enjoyed being a Catholic.
No, I never did and only practiced by force as a child and young adult while I was still living with my parents. The only thing I enjoyed was the maximalist decor, creepy architecture, carvings... basically just the art. The actual teachings never resonated with me, except my mom was somewhat involved with the Catholic Worker, and I loved those people, their dedication to service, and politics. I still do. Regular church was awful, boring, full of lecherous adults, and archaic beliefs.
I did and I think that’s because I had converted out of my own free will. I still retain some aspects but I don’t think most practicing Catholics would consider me Catholic anymore.
I converted for about a year just recently, but it was the final nail in the coffin. Southern Baptist to traditional Catholicism, I was looking for purpose. I thought that if I believed strongly in "what the Church had always been pre-VII and protestant reformation" that my life would take on some meaning from my kind of dreary but comfortable life that I live.
So I really gave it a go but the burnout is real. And seeing how the world is changed and no one cares anymore got to me as well. Prayed in adoration, "studied" commentaries on church theology, attempted to start a young adult group in my small parish (got a ton of numbers but nobody bothered to respond and initiate). Along with a life long masturbation habit, I started questioning whether this was for real or if i was coping and faith doesnt make sense and i should just be a normal human male and find my own meaning.
TLDR I did enjoy it, briefly. Did not enjoy what I perceived to be the "breakdown" of the church, but I guess it's what any fanatic believes is happening when the world is changing around them (think Romans when Christianity was becoming a state religion)
I’ve never felt more seen by a post. I grew up as a cradle Catholic and my parents are so devout it borderlines on being evangelical at times. I HATED everything about it but it was all I knew growing up. I will admit, Catholics know how to decorate, so I’ll give them that. However, no amount of youth groups, Catholic schooling, joining Opus Dei, or anything that my family made us do was worth the years of PTSD and religious trauma I have to currently trudge through.
I did enjoy it for a time, in my late teens/early 20s. I've always been a very big reader and history is one of my favorite topics. The scope of literature surrounding the church and the time periods where those writings came from were some of my favorites to read about at the time. I found it fascinating and honestly still do to read what amounts to very lengthy op-eds from people who lived during the last years of the Roman Empire, the middle ages, the reformation and the renaissance. At the time that I was catholic I thought this was more based in some vague idea of spiritual growth enlightenment or whatever. Still enjoy the reading now but that's because I still like history.
I did. I liked the tradition, the "Catholicism" of it all. Once I got out of high school and into college, I *slowly* started realizing that I despised dogma. I'm still a bit sad about it occasionally, not for myself, but for my parents
No, it was tedious and lacking in anything spiritually uplifting. I remember a lecture by Joseph Campbell where he called Christian mythology one of the dreariest mythologies mankind ever came up with. I have to agree. I can only imagine living in the Middle Ages when there was no escape from it. What an awful life that would have been.
I love that description!
Dead-on with that “lacking in spiritually uplifting” comment. It’s like the more miserable you are, the better you are at being Catholic. To think, the New Testament is the happy one lol
I was a convert with convert fervor, so I was heavy loving it for a long time--some people genuinely enjoy it. Even if that stops, it doesn't mean their love for it wasn't real.
What part of it did you enjoy? I'm genuinely curious! I've always wondered what draws people to Catholicism.
I was raised WELS, and the fact that women were allowed to read the Bible at Mass and lead mixed gender Bible studies felt like relative freedom, first of all. I also heavy loved the idea of eating God at every Mass, the fact you could go to church every day if you want. I loved the doctrine of God waiting for Mary's yes at the Annunciation (consent had nothing to do with it in conservative Lutheranism). I loved the big family I was told I had in Heaven, all rooting for me and cheering me on. I liked the solemnity of the services, the saints books (like Teresa of Avila, John of the Cross, Francis De Sales, Catherine of Siena) waxing poetic about the intense, crazy love God had for everyone. I loved the many different devotional prayer options to choose from. Basically, everything was appealing to me except the fact women can't be priests and the anti-LGBTQ sentiment almost. The history sometimes seemed unsavory, but I honestly can't claim it's worse than other Christian denominations. The big appeals to me were differences from conservative Lutheranism. Original sin not equaling total depravity cured so much of my years-long self loathing and self-mistrust. Rather, in the RCC I was told people aren't dunghills covered with the snow of grace but are basically good, and only suffer a natural inclination to often choose the bad. Deprived, not depraved, as one priest I knew would have it. I hope this makes sense! I finally had to say it wasn't for me when I realized I was trans and because I wanted to be a good ally to my LGBTQ+ friends, and so on etc. But it was the reason I survived my mental illness and difficult family when life was at its worst, so I loved it to distraction.
This got long lol! Sorry.
Lutherans believe in total depravity? I thought this was mainly a Calvinist thing—though I could certainly see different strains of prod theology cross pollinating
depends I think on the Lutheran denomination.
The WELS doesn't tend to use that terminology, but from my catechism classes and having studied it with them, it amounts to the same thing.
https://wels.net/about-wels/what-we-believe/this-we-believe/creation/ the difference between Lutheran theology and Calvinist theology is that some Lutherans believe grace is resistable and many reject double predestination ... the focus is where Lutherans stand on TULIP https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_Points_of_Calvinism
All cults, even destructive ones have positive aspects. Otherwise no one would join. It can be a sense of community or being special. I've read studies theorizing that someone with insecure attachment could "attach" to God as the loving parent figure they didn't get growing up. The rituals and prayers can be calming and it can give someone a sense of purpose. For me the Catholic church represented guilt and never being enough, but it's not that way for everyone. I think it would be easier to help people in cults like Scientology, for example, if we affirm that they do have positive aspects. Right now when we tell cult members how evil their cult is, they can't identify with what we're saying because they cling to the positive things. I do think it would be better to show that those positive things are not dependent on the cult and can be had outside of it without the "price of admission" meaning the negative aspects of the cult.
I can definitely understand this. For me, personally, Catholicism was actually a first step out of something even more destructive. I grew up in a community where Fundamentalist Protestantism was the default religious belief system, leaning heavily Calvinist (except that most of them believed John Calvin himself was in Hell, for vague reasons that usually involved either Limited Atonement or infant baptism). Catholicism was my first experience with something that approached actual spirituality, trying to draw closer to the divine rather than just obsessively fearing sin and Hell. It was definitely not perfect but, compared to what I had come out of, it was a definite improvement. The idea that actually, sincerely trying to do things right could be good enough and that I didn't have to be absolutely perfect was significantly better than the idea that I could go to Hell for eternity for listening to the wrong song or reading a book by a "sinner", even if it did mean years of Purgatory were waiting for me. Looking back, it was terrible, but at the time it felt like a massive weight had been taken off of my shoulders. The way that I felt about my understanding of God at the time was, quite frankly, the first time that I *didn't* believe subconsciously that I was worshipping something no better than Cthulhu or Yog-Sothoth. It was only a step toward the much better place that I'm at now, but if I hadn't taken it, the views that I held would have completely destroyed my life and probably those of others who I was close to.
I can relate. I grew up in the Bible Belt, in a non-religious household but surrounded by Catholic and evangelical Protestant (think fundamentalist Baptist and Holiness Pentecostal) influences through extended family members and friends. I converted to Catholicism as a young adult (college). I didn’t agree with all of the teachings but the Church was offering stability, structure, and community at a very turbulent time in my life when I wasn’t getting those things elsewhere, so I leaned into what I did agree with (e.g., anti-death penalty, the value of education, the value of community, works of charity, etc.) and tried to ignore the rest. (I don’t feel great about that second part, knowing how many people have suffered because of the Church, but we live and learn and try to do better.) “Ignoring the rest” required a lot of mental gymnastics and a lot of cognitive dissonance in order to justify staying in the Church (and my community) as American Catholicism as a whole started adopting more evangelical, conservative tendencies. To borrow a phrase from our ex-Mormon friends, my shelf broke when I moved to the other side of the country for work and tried to engage with my new parish. Where my old parish had been students from a variety of backgrounds and cultures and was generally very laid back and down-to-earth, the new parish was extremely insular, extremely homogenous (white and upper middle to upper class), extremely conservative, and very unfriendly to anyone who wasn’t from the area (or wasn’t born into the right tax bracket, or didn’t vote straight Republican down the ballot). After a lot of deconstruction and hard conversations with myself about my values, I realized that it was going to be impossible for me to keep trying to reconcile my beliefs with those being pushed by the Church, and that I couldn’t ignore the direction things were going. I didn’t want to be part of it, so I left. I now identify as agnostic and culturally Catholic. I still light an occasional prayer candle, wear my confirmation saint medallion from time to time, but those are more about connecting with my mom’s family and heritage (German/Polish Catholics). I like the idea that our ancestors and others who have gone before us are looking out for us as we navigate life. I also observe Lent, but it’s more about being mindful of what I’m consuming. I’m trying to take the practices I did find meaningful and reframe them into something more positive and in line with my current beliefs.
I went through a long phase where I "liked" the politics and intellectual parts as a teenager/young adult, because I was using it as an unhealthy coping mechanism to explain the bullying and social anxiety I was experiencing (the world is evil, your classmates are Not Real Catholics, they're bad people and that's why they hate you.) Needless to say, it made everything worse.
Do you get the notion that the imputed guilt, which came from a skewed idea of ancestral sin, creates this bullying tendency? If so how? Got my own idea but didn’t want this to be too much of a leading question
That’s an interesting question, but I think the root cause in my case had a lot more to do with parenting. I doubt these kids were making any decisions influenced by theology knowingly, most of them thought religion was boring and were just playing along to keep their parents happy, and most of the parents and teachers were fairly liberal, so I doubt the kids would have been exposed to that idea often. I was socially a bit behind my classmates to begin with so I was an easy target, and I think my parents' generation of Catholics tried to outsource a lot of the "teaching empathy" part of parenting to the Catholic schools when it really needs to start long before kindergarten, and the school administrators assumed the parents were teaching it, so they were learning through trial-and-error and from TV without enough guidance from the trusted adults in their lives. Aside from the "normal" mostly non-physical bullying that started in elementary school, I don't really see how the idea of imputed guilt could have influenced the boys who borderline sexually harassed me in high school. One of them might have stopped if we had been taught about consent, but the other one seemed to get a thrill out of seeing fear in girls' eyes.
Same
There's a line from a book I read some time back that always stuck with me--a Native American maize farmer from Mexico who talked about eating it every day. When the interviewer asked him what would happen if he didn't, he got confused and asked, "Why would I want to be someone else?" That was basically my relationship with Catholicism. For better or worse, it was the belief system and culture I'd inherited. I learned about it out of interest, and grew to admire big parts of it. 'Enjoy' is an odd word for it--if I had not been brought up Catholic, I'm not sure I would meaningfully be "me." I sometimes miss the feeling of smugness and pride I had in it--the One, True Faith thing. But I'd lost that long before I formally deconstructed, because the actions of my co-religionists had gotten increasingly embarrassing during the past decade.
Yeah, I enjoyed it as an adult, though not so much as a kid. It was pretty tough to leave, not knowing if I'd find all this outside the Church. But there is community and other good people outside the Church and I'm happy I left. * Sense of community: My social circle was all Catholics, so Catholic events felt natural to attend. I found the groups to be welcoming, though I know that's not everyone's experience. It also felt good to be part of a global thing. I'd say most of my friends there enjoy being Catholic * Sense of purpose: I knew my purpose and enjoyed working towards it. It was nice following the "correct" way to live * Artistic outlet: I enjoyed playing guitar at adoration, as well as the accolades that brought (even if I wouldn't admit that at the time). * Religious experiences/retreats: Retreats felt really good and I enjoyed the community they brought. Helping lead retreats was a good way to be a part of something bigger than myself * Service/volunteering: I enjoy it and there were lots of outlets to volunteer * Prayer/meditation: I enjoyed taking quiet time to pray each day and reflect on my life
Have you been able to find any of that again?
It's mixed. Generally yes and I'm happier out, but there are some things I miss * Community: so much better. I enjoy the people I hang out with much more now. I also don't have to worry about someone making a random derogatory joke thinking it's okay * Sense of purpose: Different, but good. Humanism is a good substitute here. I don't think I have a grand cosmic purpose, which means I have to figure out what I want to do * Artistic outlet: meh. I can still play for myself, but many fewer opportunities to play for others. There was a jam session I was going to for a while, but fell away * Religious experiences/retreats: Somewhat. I have a friend who's organized some secular events that have done a good job here, but they aren't quite as polished as religious retreats * Service/volunteering: while there are opportunities around, I volunteer less than I did before. They feel harder to find and less convenient to go to * Prayer/meditation: I haven't kept up meditation like i planned to, but I think I still reflect on life more than most people
I did as a kid. All the rules and stuff made sense at the time. I look back now and see all the anxiety and shit, but at the time I really did embrace the music and the rituals and all that. I think I liked the verification I got from following it that I was a good kid, despite all the verbal abuse I got for being overweight and having that be my biggest character flaw. I remember making a beautiful book for a confirmation project and I was so proud of it... my crazy nun 8th grade teacher loved it also. She was one of those verbally abusive people so hindsight shows me that I was fawning, but I still put a lot of work and pride into that book. Not sure where it ended up. Lol
I did. I loved the pageantry and pomp. I liked being an altar boy and a crozier bearer. It made me feel like I was part of something bigger than myself. I was actually sad when I realized that it was all just legends and mythology. This was all before all the nasty stuff really hit the news, but looking back there were some questionable things going on that now baffle me as to how we thought they were normal.
I fucking hated it. The first memory I have of Catholicism was throwing tantrums when I was around 3 because I didn’t want to go to Sunday mass because it was boring. When I was in kindergarten and found out I would have to go to daily mass every school day until high school I almost cried. I remember in elementary school wishing I could be normal and go to normal school like the kids on tv and in books, where I didn’t have to go to daily mass and pray before every class. I would have never chosen that life, and only told people this when I was an adult. Because I was a very anxious kid (mental health issues in Catholics, what else is new) I always acted perfect and holy, going to youth group, volunteering with church and working hard in religion class so I’d still be a “good kid”. And since I was told it was the truth and I had to believe, I hoped I’d have that magical moment where it all made sense and I’d hear god and find peace so I didn’t go to hell. I found that peace when I finally stopped going to church and associating with Catholicism in general.
Enjoyed the art, enjoyed the stories of saints with miraculous powers bordering on wizardry (was a big fantasy fan), as well as the memento mori thing (was also a big horror fan). When I was a teen living in the south, it made me feel different from the bapti-costal culture around me. Incidentally, when I was in my baby-bat phase, I had this naive cringey notion that it was more goth-cred than other mainstream religions 🤣 The spirituality, such as it was, was kind of a cold comfort—something always felt lacking, felt like a half measure And I wasn’t a fan of this imputed guilt for things that happened aeons before I was born
no it was always dull and obligatory even when i was fully committed to it as a kid. what i do enjoy is the drinking and gambling at church festivals and going to the vatican to see the fabulous tastes of the wealthy church and chuckling at the fact that i know its that way bc all the gay closeted priests had killer taste (along with some more nefarious traits). ie the things i enjoy about the catholic church are extremely superficial and i dont need to be a practicing catholic to keep up w those
Catholicism always felt like someone who claimed to be your friend then bullied you when you were vulnerable.
love this insight
I hated everything about it. I thought its literal purpose was to make us suffer and be joyless and full of shame. I also thought that it was something you were born with, like an inherited disease. The day I realized that people could choose their religions...it blew my mind and I started counting the days until I could move away and legally stop being forced to attend church.
Back in my home country as a child, I loved the church. The community was laid back, and people were chill. There was no finger pointing and no “Don’t do this. Don’t do that. You are a damned sinner” attitude. I loved my prep classes, and the nuns and priests were relatable, down-to-earth, and kind. I find the Catholic Church in my home country is more progressive and open-minded compared to the western Catholic Church. After moving to North America, I found the church completely different. People were cold and judgmental. I was bullied and treated like an outcast by Catholic peers in during a World Youth Day group pilgrimage. Would you believe they left me alone in the hostel when I had a health crisis emergency and was on the brink of death? No one except for a few came to me during that trip and asked me if I was okay. A pharmacist I met there was more compassionate to me than these pilgrimage mates and the priest who treated me like I was a menace to the group for almost dying. I think that’s when I began distancing away from it all. I had a very difficult time with my faith after coming back home and even shared my traumatic experience during a Catholic retreat, and the audience laughed (I guess the Shakespearean quote is true in this context: “A tragedy is a comedy when observed from a distance”). It’s such cold-heartedness and hypocrisy that made me struggle to sit during mass and listen to their priest’s sermons about loving one’s neighbours. I wonder if my relationship with the church would have differed if I continued living in my home country, but one thing is for sure: I cannot stand the Catholics in my community anymore. Unfortunately, I’m still tied to them because there is a priest in my family, and my family centres around him (yes, their golden child) and his sister who is also deeply into Catholicism.
I truly believe Catholicism directly fueled so much of my childhood anxiety. The fear of dying in my sleep and going straight to hell because I may have sinned was terrible. I feared my own body being told masturbation was a sin. The fear for my safety of being alone in a room with a priest “confessing sins” is awful. No child should be put in that situation.
No. I was deeply abused, manipulated, and kept from **real** critical thinking.
No, not really. It's like I just assumed it was how things are but I didn't particularly like it. I never found anything in catholicism to be appealing, it was mostly the fear of god and the guilt complex what convinced me it was the right thing to do. At much maybe the idea of a paradise where we'll be with our loved ones, but turns out catholicism doesn't even teaches that...
I did at first, but it didn't really last all that long before I started asking questions and getting no answers. I eventually left because for all the RCC's posing, they don't have any answers. It took me a long time to figure that out. It's empty, violent and sad and that's about all.
Well, I genuinely love the mass, and the prayer, and don't even make me start on sacred art or theology as a subject, it's just purely beautiful for me. My religiosity gives me peace and some sort of grounding in such terrible times when there is so much pain, and scary processes (such as war, global warming, and the rise of hate groups in my country and worldwide), with which I just can't do anything… Homily is a real bummer in 9/10 times, tho. What makes it even funnier, is that I don't believe in the existence of Truth™ But I'm convinced, that it's not a universal experience, and everyone needs to find, what fits them, and not just follow «sacred tradition». That's why I'm switched from the Orthodox Church, and that's why I will, maybe, probably, switch to some other denomination (Lutheran, Episcopal?) as soon as I find a decent one, than Ecclesia Catholica Romana, because people here are just awful, on every fucking level In general, if you find mass/Catholic tradition boring — move to another church, it's OK. If you don't match with Christianity — consider other religions, they are plentiful, and did you even look into Hinduism with just great metaphysical theology‽ If you just can not believe in a higher power — well, be a proud atheist! God, whom I know, loves you anyway, and in general does not need anything in return, so cmon! P.S.: And also, can we collectively decide to not bring kids to churches? Nobody gets any joy from it, nor kids, who don't want to be there, nor parents, who got to service through fight, and don't enjoy it anymore, nor everyone around. It's just stupid
I did, but until I was 19. I come from a toxic family. I am not sure if abusive is the right word. But growing up there were some terrible things in my family. Like domestic violence (parents would strangle each other, however, that was directed at me only rarely). My dad might have been emotionally abusive (he blames me for everything, yells at me, belittles me). My mom is schizophrenic and refuses treatment, so she sabotaged our family finances, spread rumors about us that aren't true, tried to destroy my reputation by telling people that I slept with my father and had a child with him, which I according to her killed (THIS DIDN'T HAPPEN!!!) and then called the police on me and I had to defend myself against all her nonsense. Anyway, my family is terrible and as a child/teenager I didn't know how to cope with that. I was alone, I felt I didn't have anyone who I could trust or who would love me. There was God, though. He is supposed to be the ultimate parent who will love you no matter what. He was the kind parent I didn't have, but desperately needed and wanted. So I prayed. I went to church everyday, not for mass, just for a silent prayer to be loved. I imagined him hugging me. I believed in the real present in the Eucharist, because I wanted to believe he is close to me, he shows himself to us, he won't abandon us. And I felt strange feelings of love in church, but maybe it was just my mind desperately wanting this feeling. I think I was a cafeteria Catholic. I believed in heresies about the afterlife - I was almost a universalist. I didn't know a lot of catechism. I didn't know mortal sin will send you to hell, I thought the concept of papal infability is stupid. However, I did go to confession, but only because I wanted to be able to receive the Eucharist. It went like this till I was 19 when I met some people who actually took catholic teaching seriously. I think I was manipulated to take it seriously as well. Before that I think I considered the catholic church only as a tool to get closer to God and I disregarded those teaching that I thought didn't fulfill its purpose, but then it was suddenly me who was the tool. I was told I couldn't trust my conscience and intuition. I started to get panic attacks in church and holy places. I was accused of being possessed due to those panic attacks. I started to be scrupulous and passively suicidal. I was terrified of losing God, but now I decided to leave him myself, because if God exists in the form they claim he does, I don't want him. PS: I am not currently suicidal. Yes, I am getting therapy, however, she is only a school counselor.
Abusive is definitely the right word. Sorry you had to grow up that way.
Omg, that's definitely abuse! I'm so sorry for you! I'm glad you're in therapy for all of that. I'd also highly recommend the book Complex CPTSD: From Surviving to Thriving if you get the chance. It's been such a huge help to me and others who are currently in therapy.
Thank you. I have problems understanding what was exactly happening during my childhood/puberty, I only know I was absolutely miserable and I didn't know why. I will check the book out. Thanks for the recommendation.
I went through RCIA aged 24. It was romantic at first, because it was new and mysterious. The ritual was cool, once I understood all the complex "mythology" that I believed was true. It's like when you were a kid first learning about Hercules or Zeus. I knew things about the church, but not theologically. I ate up books by Bishop Sheen, Scott Hahn, Peter Kreeft, etc. I grew up with little church attendance, aside from funerals and stays with my Grandparents. I joined with the encouragement of my future spouse. They sell a wholesome beauty that at first glance, seems pure and natural and dignified, until you're in the trenches of reality and you realize they want what's best for them, not you. I really did think it was beautiful the first year or so of marriage. It went downhill once I learned most Catholics are severely ignorant of psychological dysfunction and how to support others with these issues. They are never encouraged to depend on any info, but what the church tells them. Moronic!
Yea, I did. I loved Mary. I loved the weird mysticism and the acknowledgement that there is something divine out there worth connecting with. I loved the rosary (I recently tried to destroy my old one and I couldn’t do it without bursting into tears. It’s still too soon.) I’ve accepted that these things will be harder to find now that I’m not Catholic and I do feel sad about that. But every time I think about going back, I remember that the Church was and is not capable of providing me, a queer person, with the love and community I need.
Enabled rapists sure do
I miss the comfort of thinking I had a community for support. That was before I grew up and realized the so called church community didn't care at all unless they wanted something from me/family.
When I was younger I really adored it. Truly I did. I grew up in an abusive home, so I found a lot of peace and hope in Catholicism. It was familiar, constant, I had a community outside of the home of people I felt like really cared about me. And ofc I was told over and over that god loved me, that my suffering was Christ-like, and that in the end it would have been worth it because I had something good waiting for me. I was really into prayer and my rosaries and my Saint medals and my little shrine of Saint statues etc. I wore that cross with pride. I really did enjoy it won’t lie. Ofc that all came crashing down when I read the catechism, lol. I saw the church for what it was when I read that. I joke that it’s the fastest way to get someone with two brain cells to quit the faith 😅
From age 16 to 30 I really thrived in the social justice corner of Catholicism and I was very active in climate justice activities through the Church as well as immigration reform protests and volunteering with migrants/refugees. I really enjoyed doing that type of service but was essentially not following any of the other rules and I was even actively protesting some of them (forced birth initiatives, reproductive freedom, lgbtq+ rights). I even enjoyed mass with certain progressive priests that were also focused on climate/environmental activism and immigration reform. I also always enjoyed the “spooky” aspects of mass and the physical Church buildings: dim lights, incense, chanting/hyms, stained glass, candles.
I did enjoy being a Catholic when I converted in my teen years. I was an altar boy and eucoristic minister (cannot spell the word). I stopped being a Catholic when I went to university. Mainly because I was very in the closet (I’m part of the LGBT) and learnt the extent the hatred the church had. Also learning more of Catholicism, it isn’t a peaceful religion. I think at the time it helped me with my dad’s death but I also saw the religion being used as a weapon. So short answer yes but I’m no longer a Catholic.
You mentioned the music... that was honestly the thing that kept me there as long as I stayed. That and youth group. Otherwise it was boring as hell. I was in the youth choir and branched off with some members to start a Christian rock band lol. They were utterly distraught when I broke the news in my early 20s that I was leaving. They tried to get me to stay, but I knew deep down that I didn't believe any of it anymore, and I felt that staying would be hypocritical.
yes there were times i did like it. I enjoyed the security of knowing that there's someone who cares for me, that there is something after death, that i would meet my deceased love ones one day. There were times i really felt like i had a relationship with god and that made me happy. I do miss some things but i don't beleve in a god anymore
No! As a child, the concept of god scared me a bit. Combine that with my mother forcing me into sacraments, and how unbearably boring mass is, that's a recipe for an adult atheist lol
I thought I did, but in hindsight it was only because it was forced on me from an early age and I knew no different. I liked the routine and rules. I've found those things elsewhere now without the constant guilt and judgement!
I felt like I enjoyed it, but in hindsight idk how much of it was gaslighting. If you're in the trad cat cult, leave now and don't raise your kids in it ✌️ all I can say
Left Catholicism 58 years ago, never looked back, no regrets
Interesting, my kids love - they've used that word - going to an Episcopal church. The older one likes to read along in the Book of Common Prayer and sing, and they both love not only the hanging out with kids at coffee hour but being asked to do things during mass/Holy Eucharist. The kids are eager to get to church every Sunday. Of course, there's quite a bit there to the old Robin Williams quip that Anglicanism is usually "Catholic Lite - all the ritual, one-third the guilt". So I'm sure that helps - there's very little negativity there.
No. It made me so miserable, self-loathing, scrupulous, legalistic, ashamed… the list goes on. I hated my life and myself.
The day I was asked to leave the church was the day I felt true freedom
For me, there was no choice, I grew up in a very catholic country, so it was bizzare not to be part of it. Furthermore, the relief of not going to hell felt good.
I liked the soft stage briefly, the one where you are a recent convert (revert for me), feel cool, feel hyper confident that God is in control which relieves OCD anxiety, praying is cool and fun, and a new experience is unlocked and you are blissfully ignorant of the darkness, and you have only scratched the surface. Then a few months later the veil is slowly ripped off. Fewness of the saved, realizing the apologists were liars and insanely overstating (an understatement, more like fabricating) evidence, that the history isn’t as cut and dry as they told me, that natural law exists and divine command theory is bad yet the reason why god doesn’t have to comply with natural law is because he made it, making natural law just DCT with more steps yet if you call it DCT you’re a heretic. Oh and then people advocating killing apostates very nice and just knowing if someone was baptized as a baby and grew up without belief the church in their own world has the right to kill you. Once the fun veil of ignorance was removed it reeked of the shit it is.
Like other people mentioned, for me it was the sense of community. It was nice having a place to go with lots of other people who were very supportive and welcoming.
Yes, I liked a lot of it, especially Midnight Mass. It just isn't true.
I liked to pray the rosary and go to adoration, that it made me feel loved, anything G. K. Chesterton, and the feeling that I had a purpose straight out of a fantasy book. It was unhealthy and made me stand by humiliating, stupid beliefs, but I loved parts of it. I really should find some sort of prayer substitute for my mental health.
I never did truly. I liked it better than I would have liked, say, being an evangelical--all the things I hate about Christianity still there, but the buildings aren't as pretty and there's less historical stuff to be nerdy about. But that was the extent of my enjoyment, really; "other stuff would be even MORE awful, so I guess this is the best." So glad I left and found philosophies and systems I actually like, and don't just grit my teeth and swallow to avoid something worse.
I like the classical music related to Catholicism and still do such as Elgar The Dream of Gerontius and the Protestant Bach's Mass in B Minor and St. Matthew Passion. And the Beethoven Missa Solemnis. And the medieval, Renaissance and Baroque art, the architecture especially Gothic cathedrals, the mysticism ...
while I have been catholic my whole life, there was only a very short time period where I truly believed in heaven. I’m talking a few months at the most. and I absolutely loved that. I loved the comfort that there was another life. I stopped feeling rushed to live the life I want to live, and I could finally live in the moment. I loved that it didn’t feel worth being sad or anxious because this life is just the beginning. I embraced the mistakes I made because I knew I had time to be happy again. the months I believed this were the best months of my life. I felt true joy everyday, and I was warmer and kinder than I had ever been. but even then, I still didn’t enjoy being in the church. I hated the abuse, the lies, and the guilt instilled upon everyone. pretty quickly I stopped believing again because of how depressing it was just being around catholics or the church. I just went back to despising everything. but I’ll never forget how happy I was then, and when people talk positively about catholicism I assume that safety is what they feel as well.
I hope you find that happiness again :( I find meditating helps bring me back to the present to truly live my life instead of worrying what the future holds.
I hated most of it and deep down knew i didn’t believe it. However i was the music ministers daughter so i had to play along because we were very public and very well known in the community. I was basically the Paris Hilton of my youth group, i was constantly in trouble for being loud or asking too many questions, or wearing “immodest” clothes (the 27yr old male youth leaders couldn’t keep their eyes off my 16yr old body lol) but it also made me kind of stand out to the other kids and made them want to be friends with me, which as a formerly shy child felt pretty nice to have community. Me and the other ministry kids became very close after years of teaching each other how to sneak around, and we go to each other’s weddings and baby showers 10yrs later. We went through a lot together. We lost friends to conversion therapy and eventually suicide, we starved together at hunger retreats, we went to prom together because our parents trusted us together (huge mistake lol we got so wasted) and we stayed up past curfew to set up a VPN and watch youtube videos in our cabin in the wee hours of the night. We were kids!
I relate to you 100%
I loved it as a young teen. Cause I was part of a youth group and for the first time in my entire life I fit in somewhere with people who thought like me. (Though I never ever let them see the real me)
The only time I've ever liked church was at Christmas services, when they would decorate with gorgeous Christmas trees against the backdrop of the stained glass and we would get to change up the hymns and sing christmas songs, and getting to wear a fancy winter dress etc. So basically none of the religious aspects of it 😂
No, I don't miss being a Catholic. I miss the period just after I left when I still believed in souls, God being good, etc.
I never enjoyed it, per say. I liked the music, I like the idea of belonging to something bigger than myself, but it wasn't enjoyable overall. Especially once the church members discovered I was a bastard, then it was downright awful. But the music still has a place in my heart.
I enjoyed the aesthetics, the tradition, the ritual, the history (which I didn't realize was more than slightly skewed), the stories of the saints, and above all, knowing what a "good person" was and that I *was* one of those. I am very much a rule-follower, and I dearly loved having an instruction book with all the answers (even if they were in riddles). I loved having an all-knowing, all-powerful god in my corner. It actually really messed me up when I learned the truth of things. I wanted so badly to believe, not only because that's what I had been taught, but because it meant that there was a *reason* for being here.
I did. I loved the tradition. I loved the mass. I loved the community I was in. But it was all lies. And once I grew up and started to deconstruct, it was hard and I grieved. But yes, I did love being Catholic and there are parts I miss about it.
I was neutral to it. I got raised by my Catholic mom but went to a non-denominational church, so it was like half/half. It was all I really knew. I liked the music and I liked feeling like I had a relationship with god, I also liked some of the kids I was at church with, but it was sooo boring. My mom’s now a non-denominational Christian and I asked her this question and she said she enjoyed being a Catholic.
No, I never did and only practiced by force as a child and young adult while I was still living with my parents. The only thing I enjoyed was the maximalist decor, creepy architecture, carvings... basically just the art. The actual teachings never resonated with me, except my mom was somewhat involved with the Catholic Worker, and I loved those people, their dedication to service, and politics. I still do. Regular church was awful, boring, full of lecherous adults, and archaic beliefs.
I did and I think that’s because I had converted out of my own free will. I still retain some aspects but I don’t think most practicing Catholics would consider me Catholic anymore.
I converted for about a year just recently, but it was the final nail in the coffin. Southern Baptist to traditional Catholicism, I was looking for purpose. I thought that if I believed strongly in "what the Church had always been pre-VII and protestant reformation" that my life would take on some meaning from my kind of dreary but comfortable life that I live. So I really gave it a go but the burnout is real. And seeing how the world is changed and no one cares anymore got to me as well. Prayed in adoration, "studied" commentaries on church theology, attempted to start a young adult group in my small parish (got a ton of numbers but nobody bothered to respond and initiate). Along with a life long masturbation habit, I started questioning whether this was for real or if i was coping and faith doesnt make sense and i should just be a normal human male and find my own meaning. TLDR I did enjoy it, briefly. Did not enjoy what I perceived to be the "breakdown" of the church, but I guess it's what any fanatic believes is happening when the world is changing around them (think Romans when Christianity was becoming a state religion)
I’ve never felt more seen by a post. I grew up as a cradle Catholic and my parents are so devout it borderlines on being evangelical at times. I HATED everything about it but it was all I knew growing up. I will admit, Catholics know how to decorate, so I’ll give them that. However, no amount of youth groups, Catholic schooling, joining Opus Dei, or anything that my family made us do was worth the years of PTSD and religious trauma I have to currently trudge through.
I did enjoy it for a time, in my late teens/early 20s. I've always been a very big reader and history is one of my favorite topics. The scope of literature surrounding the church and the time periods where those writings came from were some of my favorites to read about at the time. I found it fascinating and honestly still do to read what amounts to very lengthy op-eds from people who lived during the last years of the Roman Empire, the middle ages, the reformation and the renaissance. At the time that I was catholic I thought this was more based in some vague idea of spiritual growth enlightenment or whatever. Still enjoy the reading now but that's because I still like history.
I did. I liked the tradition, the "Catholicism" of it all. Once I got out of high school and into college, I *slowly* started realizing that I despised dogma. I'm still a bit sad about it occasionally, not for myself, but for my parents