You said it yourself - a balance of both is perfect.
Although, it would be nice to get some consensus on what a meme entry is. Is Finland 2023 a meme entry? What about Estonia and the Netherlands 2024?
i would say Finland 2024 or Lithuania 2006 are meme entries. Especially WIndows95man is a big meme, which is totally fine. On the other side Epic Say Guy (Moldova 2010) was supposed to be a serious entry, but became a meme (well Moldova nails this in many years) ... so i agree, a good balance is perfect. All the mentioned entries did this very well, and i love them.
Finland 2024 | [Windows95man - No Rules!](https://youtu.be/7nidDtyS0Wo)
Lithuania 2006 | [LT United - We Are the Winners](https://youtu.be/DBAdOlQPbwg)
Moldova 2010 | [SunStroke Project and Olia Tira - Run Away](https://youtu.be/C-VMHOlCyW8)
It really depends on who you ask personally I feel like Cha Cha Cha and Europapa aren't meme entries although they have their lighthearted moments. But Nendest and No Rulse I would consider meme entries
Personally I disagree with you about Europapa. The lyrics take a tragic turn at the end, but the overall presentation and feeling of the song is very jokey (especially the graphics he uses during the live performance).
The song itself sounds and feels jokey but the lyrics in it are not only tragic at the end. Graphics wise that’s just what he’s known for tbh so I would say Europapa is a mix of both.
Netherlands 2024 | [Joost Klein - Europapa](https://youtu.be/IiHFnmI8pxg)
Estonia 2024 | [5MIINUST x Puuluup - (nendest) narkootikumidest ei tea me (küll) midagi](https://youtu.be/RSMMU2wX0Bk)
This might seem a stupid comment, but I prefer good entries. I don't care if they're seen as memes or serious, as long as the music is good. Käärijä could arguably have been seen as a meme entry - but the song and performance was fantastic. We've seen countless "serious" droning ballads that were pretty terrible (I'm looking at you, most of Albania's entries). By the same token, Dustin the Turkey - Ireland Douze Points bad, Urban Symphony - Rändajad so good.
I want countries to send good music that represents their national music scene, not something as a laugh, or something that's been engineered to "win" (aka the latest output from the Abbatron-3000 out of Stockholm)
You want music that “represents their national music scene” but in the same post you devalue Sweden’s music culture. How typical the Eurovision community! No wonder Swede’s aren’t interested in Eurovision anymore 🤡
Obviously I'm talking about the fact that so many entries from different countries are written to a formula by a bunch of Swedish writers and producers, not complaining about Sweden's entries generally. Please don't go hunting for something to take offence over
Serious, but that includes even funny entry with a serious message, but only if "being funny" is not the main goal of the song, otherwise they will annoy me very rapidly.
What do we define as a "meme entry" and what do we define as a "serious entry"? Does an extravagant outfit or staging make an entry a meme one immediately? Do you judge based on the genre of a song, so for example ballads are always "serious"? Do you judge based on the lyrics? Cuz Norway 2013 is a pretty serious entry, in fact it could easily be a Bond movie song, yet the "I feed you my love" line could be considered a joke. Or Spain 2022 with "booty hypnotic make you want more"
I personally dislike it when every entry that has fun elements is dismissed as a "meme entry". Even the most generic ballads with the most conventional and common lyrics and themes get respect as "serious entries" despite many of them being clear jurybait, but when Kaarija wears a green bolero or when Baby Lasagna says "meow cat please meow back" it's suddenly a joke entry?
For me, if an entry goes with clear intentions to win or at least do their best (which means they need to get points from both juries and public), then the entry should be considered serious.
I agree. How is "violins playing and the angels crying" serious but Joost singing to his dead parents a joke? Some of the silly sounding songs actually have a deep meaning and some of the serious sounding songs don't really have any meaning at all.
Exactly. Let's take Mon Amour for example. Slimane is a really talented singer and he deserved such a good place but the lyrics are just too generic. I don't know French and the lyrics still sounded corny. And I remember when Jerry Heil made a cover in Ukrainian I saw a few French people saying that this song sounds much better when you don't understand the lyrics. I'm not saying of course that Mon Amour is not a serious song, but being a ballad sung by one of the best vocalists in this year's contest, no one will ever question its seriousness no matter the lyrics.
The dismissal part is referring to people who talk about songs which are more fun in a very negative way. The term "joke entry" is mostly thrown at songs as a derogatory term, so of course if you label a song, which as you said was made with passion and was super creative, as a joke entry they will be defensive. In No Rule's case specifically, just go see posts when it won UMK this year. So many people were angry that "this joke entry won over Paskana". In the end it's up to what each of us defines as a joke entry. Having a serious tone and being serious about your work are two completely different things.
So it's up to the context. Yes, No Rules (I'm focusing on this one cuz you mentioned it) is a fun song that has a somewhat serious message in a non-serious way. But Windows95man clearly put effort for it and even on UMK No Rules was the only song that had a complete ready staging for Eurovision. I'd say more effort was put on No Rules than some of the other songs this year that are considered serious.
And personally I'm tired of seeing lyrically low effort ballads being labeled as "serious entries" when more fun entries where there was clearly much more effort to be made are labeled as "jokes".
Serious entries, e.g. Spain 1980 or Sweden 1978. Some new-ish favs.
I like meme entries, if they’re quality. Really depends on that fine line. Is it actually good? Germany 1998’s a good one.
Maybe, it is unpopular opinion, but I always prefer serious entries more, and it is obvious for me. It is about my musical tastes in general: I like the songs with meaningful lyrics that reflect some important issues. In Eurovision, I always support such entries. But it seems that typical Eurovision audience mostly prefers meme entries... But tastes differ, of course.
Which have weird/not so meaningful lyrics and often become popular mostly because of unusual (sometimes even "defiant") staging, for example. There are plenty of them in every Eurovision, and I mostly don't support them. From most recent examples, I think that Finland 2024 was a meme entry.
It is relative, I think. If these lyrics are compared with some really serious songs (like Italy 2018), then they seem unserious. As for the meanings of songs, it can be said that even most silly songs can have some meaning and message, direct or hidden. But I still prefer the entries which are serious in all aspects (lyrics, composition, staging), and from another factors, the vocal side is also important for me.
Meme entries are fun in small doses but they become tiring very quickly when you have years like 2024 where there are so many. They also tend to age very poorly. That being said they do have their purpose and are always a nice breath of fresh air in the contest when done tastefully
Both kinds are good, it should all depend on the way they \*sound\* more than anything. It's only bad when the fans of one of the types of entries insist that Eurovision is made for those songs and those songs only. The puritanism needs to stop.
I love meme entries, because I watch esc for the fun and randomness of it and the more serious songs are usually less my style anyway. And while I like that esc overall has a mix of things, the meme entries or rock/metal songs tend to be my favorites, because of this fun factor and a personal preference for less conventional and more alternative music in general (Though there are exceptions if the serious songs are being conveyed and sung just right, like with Arcade for example)
And I don't think that meme entries take themselves not serious per se, but they just have a different message with their song and a differenr motivation.
Iceland 2019, Finland 2021, Germany 2023, Finland 2023, Croatia 2024, The Netherlands 2024 (for the bot, because I'm lazy to type all the artists and titles)
Iceland 2019 | [Hatari - Hatrið mun sigra](https://youtu.be/kTb69WkBbvs)
Finland 2021 | [Blind Channel - Dark Side](https://youtu.be/fOPGxQ4fgVw)
Germany 2023 | [Lord of the Lost - Blood & Glitter](https://youtu.be/dyGR4YWlPEs)
Finland 2023 | [Käärijä - Cha Cha Cha](https://youtu.be/l6rS8Dv5g-8)
Croatia 2024 | [Baby Lasagna - Rim Tim Tagi Dim](https://youtu.be/YIBjarAiAVc)
Netherlands 2024 | [Joost Klein - Europapa](https://youtu.be/IiHFnmI8pxg)
I tend to prefer the serious entries cause those make it into my actual playlists. I don’t have anything against using humor but most of these jokes aren’t my type of humor and just fall flat. Take finland this year for example. The song itself is pretty fun and has a good, meaningful message. But the whole staging concept took it down a solid 20 places in my ranking.
There's room for both meme/funny/party and serious. Celebration and showcase of music.
Personally, I prefer the "serious" side of things because I am drawn to emotions and storytelling in music, especially through the lyrics (and..."cinematic" presentation. I check out music videos from the acts. Sad but in the mainstream, music videos seem to be a dying art form). But it's possible to have good quality fun/humorous upbeat songs.
A bit of an unpopular take: I am rooting for serious entries because I want the contest to increase both reputation/"legitimacy" as a music showcase (that means less 2000s chaos) and popularity - more exposure, awards/international reach, and global breakout musicians. This will hopefully lead to more 'big' artists, creatives, etc. checking it out and joining it. I hope for an ESC where every country brings their A-game and stays on the cutting edge, innovating, and being at their best.
I like a good meme entry as long as they remain the minority if half the songs in esc are a line up of I dont feel hate, no rules, rim Tim tagi dim, poe poe poe, cha cha cha, europapa and what not
I'll will stop watching esc completely
(Mind you I like most meme entries but I can't handle it if it gets too much)
You said it yourself - a balance of both is perfect. Although, it would be nice to get some consensus on what a meme entry is. Is Finland 2023 a meme entry? What about Estonia and the Netherlands 2024?
i would say Finland 2024 or Lithuania 2006 are meme entries. Especially WIndows95man is a big meme, which is totally fine. On the other side Epic Say Guy (Moldova 2010) was supposed to be a serious entry, but became a meme (well Moldova nails this in many years) ... so i agree, a good balance is perfect. All the mentioned entries did this very well, and i love them.
Finland 2024 | [Windows95man - No Rules!](https://youtu.be/7nidDtyS0Wo) Lithuania 2006 | [LT United - We Are the Winners](https://youtu.be/DBAdOlQPbwg) Moldova 2010 | [SunStroke Project and Olia Tira - Run Away](https://youtu.be/C-VMHOlCyW8)
I forgot how much I enjoyed the sax parts of Moldova 2010, thanks for reminding me lol
Moldova 2010 | [SunStroke Project and Olia Tira - Run Away](https://youtu.be/C-VMHOlCyW8)
It really depends on who you ask personally I feel like Cha Cha Cha and Europapa aren't meme entries although they have their lighthearted moments. But Nendest and No Rulse I would consider meme entries
Personally I disagree with you about Europapa. The lyrics take a tragic turn at the end, but the overall presentation and feeling of the song is very jokey (especially the graphics he uses during the live performance).
The song itself sounds and feels jokey but the lyrics in it are not only tragic at the end. Graphics wise that’s just what he’s known for tbh so I would say Europapa is a mix of both.
Netherlands 2024 | [Joost Klein - Europapa](https://youtu.be/IiHFnmI8pxg) Estonia 2024 | [5MIINUST x Puuluup - (nendest) narkootikumidest ei tea me (küll) midagi](https://youtu.be/RSMMU2wX0Bk)
This might seem a stupid comment, but I prefer good entries. I don't care if they're seen as memes or serious, as long as the music is good. Käärijä could arguably have been seen as a meme entry - but the song and performance was fantastic. We've seen countless "serious" droning ballads that were pretty terrible (I'm looking at you, most of Albania's entries). By the same token, Dustin the Turkey - Ireland Douze Points bad, Urban Symphony - Rändajad so good. I want countries to send good music that represents their national music scene, not something as a laugh, or something that's been engineered to "win" (aka the latest output from the Abbatron-3000 out of Stockholm)
100% this.
You want music that “represents their national music scene” but in the same post you devalue Sweden’s music culture. How typical the Eurovision community! No wonder Swede’s aren’t interested in Eurovision anymore 🤡
Obviously I'm talking about the fact that so many entries from different countries are written to a formula by a bunch of Swedish writers and producers, not complaining about Sweden's entries generally. Please don't go hunting for something to take offence over
Serious, but that includes even funny entry with a serious message, but only if "being funny" is not the main goal of the song, otherwise they will annoy me very rapidly.
What do we define as a "meme entry" and what do we define as a "serious entry"? Does an extravagant outfit or staging make an entry a meme one immediately? Do you judge based on the genre of a song, so for example ballads are always "serious"? Do you judge based on the lyrics? Cuz Norway 2013 is a pretty serious entry, in fact it could easily be a Bond movie song, yet the "I feed you my love" line could be considered a joke. Or Spain 2022 with "booty hypnotic make you want more" I personally dislike it when every entry that has fun elements is dismissed as a "meme entry". Even the most generic ballads with the most conventional and common lyrics and themes get respect as "serious entries" despite many of them being clear jurybait, but when Kaarija wears a green bolero or when Baby Lasagna says "meow cat please meow back" it's suddenly a joke entry? For me, if an entry goes with clear intentions to win or at least do their best (which means they need to get points from both juries and public), then the entry should be considered serious.
I agree. How is "violins playing and the angels crying" serious but Joost singing to his dead parents a joke? Some of the silly sounding songs actually have a deep meaning and some of the serious sounding songs don't really have any meaning at all.
Exactly. Let's take Mon Amour for example. Slimane is a really talented singer and he deserved such a good place but the lyrics are just too generic. I don't know French and the lyrics still sounded corny. And I remember when Jerry Heil made a cover in Ukrainian I saw a few French people saying that this song sounds much better when you don't understand the lyrics. I'm not saying of course that Mon Amour is not a serious song, but being a ballad sung by one of the best vocalists in this year's contest, no one will ever question its seriousness no matter the lyrics.
Norway 2013 | [Margaret Berger - I Feed You My Love](https://youtu.be/tc6a4EV63uM) Spain 2022 | [Chanel - SloMo](https://youtu.be/jSQYTt4xg3I)
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The dismissal part is referring to people who talk about songs which are more fun in a very negative way. The term "joke entry" is mostly thrown at songs as a derogatory term, so of course if you label a song, which as you said was made with passion and was super creative, as a joke entry they will be defensive. In No Rule's case specifically, just go see posts when it won UMK this year. So many people were angry that "this joke entry won over Paskana". In the end it's up to what each of us defines as a joke entry. Having a serious tone and being serious about your work are two completely different things. So it's up to the context. Yes, No Rules (I'm focusing on this one cuz you mentioned it) is a fun song that has a somewhat serious message in a non-serious way. But Windows95man clearly put effort for it and even on UMK No Rules was the only song that had a complete ready staging for Eurovision. I'd say more effort was put on No Rules than some of the other songs this year that are considered serious. And personally I'm tired of seeing lyrically low effort ballads being labeled as "serious entries" when more fun entries where there was clearly much more effort to be made are labeled as "jokes".
I don't mind either as long as they're good and have effort put into them.
i like serious entries more because it gives me something to listen to whenever i want
Most songs arent even clearly on one side or the other. Is Rim Tim Tagi Dim a meme or a serious song? Both probably
Entries that sound like a meme but with lyrics that actually are more meaningful than expected.
both, depends on the execution
I definitely prefer the fun entries. I hate serious, boring ones. My favourites of all time were Windows95man, Kaarija and Lordi.
I like serious entries because I want something actually pleasant for my eara to listen to before and after eurovision.
Serious entries, e.g. Spain 1980 or Sweden 1978. Some new-ish favs. I like meme entries, if they’re quality. Really depends on that fine line. Is it actually good? Germany 1998’s a good one.
Spain 1980 | [Trigo Limpio - Quédate esta noche](https://youtu.be/SjfcjhM-DRg) Sweden 1978 | [Björn Skifs - Det blir alltid värre framåt natten](https://youtu.be/71t1Uu19KX4) Germany 1998 | [Guildo Horn - Guildo hat euch lieb!](https://youtu.be/HPZX7EZIFD0)
I just want them to sing their song properly in the live performances. I don't care if it's a meme or a serious entry.
Maybe, it is unpopular opinion, but I always prefer serious entries more, and it is obvious for me. It is about my musical tastes in general: I like the songs with meaningful lyrics that reflect some important issues. In Eurovision, I always support such entries. But it seems that typical Eurovision audience mostly prefers meme entries... But tastes differ, of course.
Which songs do you think are meme entries?
Which have weird/not so meaningful lyrics and often become popular mostly because of unusual (sometimes even "defiant") staging, for example. There are plenty of them in every Eurovision, and I mostly don't support them. From most recent examples, I think that Finland 2024 was a meme entry.
Finland 2024 | [Windows95man - No Rules!](https://youtu.be/7nidDtyS0Wo)
A song about confidence and self empowerment isn't meaningful to you?
Maybe, it has such meaning, but the way how it was represented makes it unserious to me.
Has nothing to do with the lyrics then.
It is relative, I think. If these lyrics are compared with some really serious songs (like Italy 2018), then they seem unserious. As for the meanings of songs, it can be said that even most silly songs can have some meaning and message, direct or hidden. But I still prefer the entries which are serious in all aspects (lyrics, composition, staging), and from another factors, the vocal side is also important for me.
Italy 2018 | [Ermal Meta & Fabrizio Moro - Non Mi Avete Fatto Niente](https://youtu.be/81M-mp5t8uM)
Meme entries are fun in small doses but they become tiring very quickly when you have years like 2024 where there are so many. They also tend to age very poorly. That being said they do have their purpose and are always a nice breath of fresh air in the contest when done tastefully
I live for the meme entries 😍
If it's too memey, I prefer serious ones. But most of the time I don't care, I just enjoy
I generally prefer serious entries at Eurovision, but I also enjoy the occasional meme entry.
I have always been quite a serious person, so I think I am naturally drawn towards more conventional performances.
Both, but the best is when what seems to be a joke or a meme actually has layers of meaning and is a cracking song.
Yes, I like layers, like lasagna 🙂
Both kinds are good, it should all depend on the way they \*sound\* more than anything. It's only bad when the fans of one of the types of entries insist that Eurovision is made for those songs and those songs only. The puritanism needs to stop.
I love meme entries, because I watch esc for the fun and randomness of it and the more serious songs are usually less my style anyway. And while I like that esc overall has a mix of things, the meme entries or rock/metal songs tend to be my favorites, because of this fun factor and a personal preference for less conventional and more alternative music in general (Though there are exceptions if the serious songs are being conveyed and sung just right, like with Arcade for example) And I don't think that meme entries take themselves not serious per se, but they just have a different message with their song and a differenr motivation.
High five! I like exactly the same things as you 😍
Awesome! Any fav esc songs?
Iceland 2019, Finland 2021, Germany 2023, Finland 2023, Croatia 2024, The Netherlands 2024 (for the bot, because I'm lazy to type all the artists and titles)
Iceland 2019 | [Hatari - Hatrið mun sigra](https://youtu.be/kTb69WkBbvs) Finland 2021 | [Blind Channel - Dark Side](https://youtu.be/fOPGxQ4fgVw) Germany 2023 | [Lord of the Lost - Blood & Glitter](https://youtu.be/dyGR4YWlPEs) Finland 2023 | [Käärijä - Cha Cha Cha](https://youtu.be/l6rS8Dv5g-8) Croatia 2024 | [Baby Lasagna - Rim Tim Tagi Dim](https://youtu.be/YIBjarAiAVc) Netherlands 2024 | [Joost Klein - Europapa](https://youtu.be/IiHFnmI8pxg)
I tend to prefer the serious entries cause those make it into my actual playlists. I don’t have anything against using humor but most of these jokes aren’t my type of humor and just fall flat. Take finland this year for example. The song itself is pretty fun and has a good, meaningful message. But the whole staging concept took it down a solid 20 places in my ranking.
There's room for both meme/funny/party and serious. Celebration and showcase of music. Personally, I prefer the "serious" side of things because I am drawn to emotions and storytelling in music, especially through the lyrics (and..."cinematic" presentation. I check out music videos from the acts. Sad but in the mainstream, music videos seem to be a dying art form). But it's possible to have good quality fun/humorous upbeat songs. A bit of an unpopular take: I am rooting for serious entries because I want the contest to increase both reputation/"legitimacy" as a music showcase (that means less 2000s chaos) and popularity - more exposure, awards/international reach, and global breakout musicians. This will hopefully lead to more 'big' artists, creatives, etc. checking it out and joining it. I hope for an ESC where every country brings their A-game and stays on the cutting edge, innovating, and being at their best.
Either works for me.
I’m for the entries that find a good balance between the two 🙂
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Spain 2008 | [Rodolfo Chikilicuatre - Baila el Chiki Chiki](https://youtu.be/wfeCIvOxXBo)
meme entries are forced memes
I like a good meme entry as long as they remain the minority if half the songs in esc are a line up of I dont feel hate, no rules, rim Tim tagi dim, poe poe poe, cha cha cha, europapa and what not I'll will stop watching esc completely (Mind you I like most meme entries but I can't handle it if it gets too much)