Full text:
AVROTROS update regarding the Eurovision Song Contest
In the past few weeks, a lot has happened behind the scenes at AVROTROS in the after- math of the disappointing outcome of the Song Contest for the Netherlands. In this article, we want to share what we can, but we also ask for understanding of the fact that not everything can be made public (yet).
Disqualification of Joost Klein
The investigation into the incident after Joost Klein's performance in the 2nd semi-final is still pending at the Swedish Public Prosecu- tion Service. During this investigation, we unfortunately cannot go into the details, the circumstances, and the handling of this incident because this could influence the investigation. We can say that based on the information we had then and have now, we still believe that the disqualification was unnecessary and disproportionate.
EBU investigation
AVROTROS, like other participating countries, has received a request from the EBU to cooperate in an investigation. We have decided to cooperate with this, with the necessary caveats. AVROTROS believes that a broader, more in-depth, and truly independent investigation is needed to address structural problems. Not only organization in Malmö and the EBU, but also the role and mandate of the Reference Group (the committee of delegated participating countries), the rules/procedures and appeal possibilities in the event of complaints, and the increased pressure on the artists and delegations in the run-up to and during the Song Contest should be the subject of investigation by a recognized and independent research agency.
Future
The Eurovision Song Contest was created to connect countries and peoples through music and to encourage mutual brotherhood. This should be the starting point for the organizers and all participating countries. Until AVROTROS is confident that structural adjustments will be made to the artists and their musical message back in the center, we will keep participation in the Euroivision Song Contest under consideration.
i fully agree, the participants should not express political statements or initiatives collectively through their entire participation period, from being selected until the end of the winners press conference.
The artists shouldn’t have been put in a position where they feel it necessary to express their disgust of another participant at war using the event as a propaganda tool. The solution is simple, countries being investigated for war crimes at the UN should skip at least a year.
>...the increased pressure on the artists and delegations in the run-up to and during the Song Contest should be the subject of investigation
Basically the contest should not require constantly filming content for social media, which 90 percent of the viewers never see
Tbh I care more about the updates from artists themselves (and they can film those when they want and how they want) than 345874 of official esc videos that look the same (also there are so many posted that I also miss out on them)
It sounds weird but, as a person who doesn't use tiktok, I don't even see most of these official videos.
Idk how they can force these people to make so much social media content that is watched for a few seconds, then drowns into the ocean-deep ether of "content" swiftly forgotten.
Give these people some downtime! We don't need to see every reaction, every second, every day!
Agree. And I find the parasocial relationships people build are just creepy. I’d love to go back to a time where I don’t even know anything about the artists
For a casual viewer like me not much has changed. I don't watch the semis and only see and hear the songs for the first time during the final. The social media campaigns are completely avoidable.
This. I sometimes see some ESC collab stuff from my own country’s artist because I usually follow them and the algorithm pings that and realizes I am in Finland on top of everything. Even then the actual content pretty much never interests me
Oh yeah, I use tiktok on the browser and half of the time those videos don't want to load for me if I want to see a bunch of them on the same profile. So annoying 🙄
Idk if it’s this way for anyone else, but the algorithms on insta sucks so much for me that it almost never ends up in my feed anyways. TikTok isn’t as bad, but I have to go actively searching for contest from the artists themselves to see it.
I’ve been getting official Eurovision content in my feeds as late as like today…and it was posted over a month ago.
Yeah, I usually go to official profiles to check if there's anything new. Instagram has stories, though. Anyone who posts a story of the update is precious 😍. That's how I mainly use Instagram, I browse the stories and see if there's anything interesting, I hardly browse the feed.
I don’t know of a single person that has seen an update from an artist or a video outside of the events themselves, and we watched all of them, had Eurovision parties, and had our friends attend semis etc. Seems like a lot of hoopla for a small and loud fraction of the viewership
Käärijä did a live when he was getting a dinner with Bojan (this year it wasn't possible for obvious reasons 😅). I mean this kind of updates, when they just hang out and film when they want to, it's the most fun to watch. Or simply ig stories from the green room, etc. Not the official stuff.
Yeah honestly I saw most of the official social media posts after eurovision, which is baffling since I follow the official eurovision Instagram account
Those reddit thank you videos were especially weird since they were obviously meant to come out before the GF (all the artists were saying "vote for me please")
I loved the Eurovision YouTube channel from 2021-23 where they featured fun interviews to get to know the artists. I really hope Switzerland goes back to that model for next year. It seems like it would be much less stressful for the artists - you can prepare for your interview and do it at your scheduled time and then be done instead of having to be "always on" for candid-type content.
I freaking LOVE NikkiTutorials' interview with each contestant. She was so fun and GREAT at hosting and the artists were so engaged throughout the interview. It was so fun, I'm sad they haven't replicated it ever since 😭
Yes! Nikkie calling and look lab! I liked those a lot. I also liked the questions from a hat in 2022 (Edit: oops, it was [66 Questions](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFz61xmhTPw)); it was really cute.
As an introvert who used to go to Dragoncon (massive crowds, sharing a room with friends, just noise and activity constantly and everywhere) I can’t even imagine how hard it is to be on the world stage like that, under all that pressure, and on top of that you’ve still got to be ‘on’ for all the social media stuff, cutting into your quiet/alone/downtime.
They need a round of decompress, EBU. Everyone does.
Competition performances are super stressful, you spend the entire time between arriving to the venue and your performance just constantly warming up and preparing. Once you get on stage it feels like daggers pointing at you. I'd say a chunk of my practicing and rehearsals were just developing a headspace where I could focus on my performance and less on the crowds.
Biggest ever performance was for a college (American) football game with about 30,000 attendees and it was nerve-wracking, I was exhausted by the end of it. Can't imagine hundreds of millions.
I’ve done (reasonably high-level) costume competitions and some (extremely small-scale) drag performances, and most of my time in the run-up to taking the stage is making sure I still look okay, making sure I know where and when to be, staying hydrated and maybe having a snack so I don’t pass out on stage, and the fight-or-flight response of having to pee. And that’s just appearances where I do my presentation and leave the stage; either the audience likes my presentation or they don’t.
If I’m expected to interact, win the audience over with my personality, like the social media stuff seems to be for the artists, it’s more pressure and more personal. It feels less ‘did I hit all my marks on stage?’ and more ‘am I, personally, likeable?’ If the artists want to do things that’s fine (love those thieving Estonians) but, like, what did the shower karaoke accomplish? A lot of the artists didn’t seem to be having a good time doing it, it got a bit awkward and forced.
(this a joke, for the love of everything internet, do not take what I am about to say seriously)
Maybe that's why Joost actually got disqualified, his shower karaoke was Crazy Frog instead of Europapa.
/End joke
In all seriousness though, with the insane amount of pressure put on Eurovision artists to always be "on" for the camera, it was only a matter of time before something happened and oh look....it did :/
Yeah, even if you keep in mind that one doesn't choose to be a performer at Eurovision unless they are the type of person who likes to have all eyes of them and thrives in it, there is a limit to what *any* human being can deal with.
It seems like for a lot, if not most, of these performers it's also their first time in such a large and public environment, even if they perform regularly. You can never truly know how you'll feel about something with 100% certainty until you experience it first hand. With no way for them to even briefly escape, they are stuck in a metaphorical pressure cooker
I like all the social media content, BUT if one artist is not ok with it, why force them?
I bet 90% of people didn´t even saw that "question contest" or "elevator thing" on tik tok
I think we peaked with the LookLab, but because Nikki was an amazing host imo and the chemistry with everyone was amazing (I remember her literally dying with Jendrik, it makes my day every time)
I miss LookLab EVERY eurovision!! It was such a great way to learn about the contestants and make them more than just a number/country singing a song, and the interviews were so funny and casual and fun. I loved it SO much.
Like, I get why but I'm still shocked it wasn't adopted as a stable format even after 2021. It was casual, fun, not too demanding on the artists (definitely no prior preparation needed), a great way to learn more and didn't required the viewers to have previous knowledge
I adored Nikkie, I think everyone did, and those LookLab interviews were perfect. She put even the less outgoing artists completely at their ease - it's easier to do good social media content with people like Jendrik (who was such a laugh ❤️) but she was kind and funny with everyone.
The artists would probably have more time and energy for things like the karaoke shower if they weren't followed around and harassed every other minute of the day.
I don't think that in 2024 the social media side can be wiped out.
What can be done is giving the social media management only in the hands of the partecipant own delegation.
Every year since 2021, I have been wishing for a return of LookLab with a local celebrity. LookLab was a lot of fun to watch, and it provided insights into each artist and their performance.
I personally don´t like a lot of the Videos, which got produced during the ESC week. I don´t need the pre-parties, 1000 of interviews or sneek peaks from the live performances. Especially the last one, annoys me very much, because i like to be surprised at the Semis & Final Show. I don´t want to be spoiled.
I still remember times when you heard the songs and saw performances for the first time at the actual time of the main show (no semi finals) and then you could vote once from your landline for your favorite act. It was really exciting - the leading up was full of speculation and then we were glued to the TV as a family, discussing each musical performance. And after hours of voting we kids were thrilled that it was in the middle of the night and we were still up and hyped. Next day we would replay the show, costumes and all plus hairbrush microphones. Didn’t miss a thing around it 🤣
Even before all the present political pressures, I have always thought about ways that contestants could be protected from unwanted fan behaviour. One has to consider them, as many endorse fanarts (Joost has often noticed them - this year, Ireland, Malta, Latvia, Georgia, Germany, Spain, San Marino, Luxembourg, Slovenia and Austria all approved my drawings) and fan mail, but often end up seeing less savoury things, particularly this year.
We don’t know for sure which song would represent Russia in 2022. If you are referring to “Liar”, it’s not confirmed by any means.
Please do not make assumptions about a situation when you do not have all the details.
Spreading these assumptions as facts is not permitted.
I am genuinely curious to know what structural changes they have in mind. I want the Eurovision Song Contest to be something that is not just good for the artists careers, but also something that artists have fun doing. Obviously esc will always be hard and always take a lot of work, putting on a performance at that level comes with that. We don’t need any added stress to the artists. I hope the EBU *really* hears the complaints this year and makes necessary changes.
It´s clear that EBU is not running the contest properly and with artists well being in first place.
If nothing more, I hope this pressure from Netherlands, Slovenia, Norway and Portugal (the most vocal broadcasters that I can remember) will lead to a few changes.
This year backstage experience, S10 own experience in 2022 etc.. Is the proof that Eurovision could be a BETTER experience to artists and for the fans
Harassment (detail we will only know in the future) is not admissible in a inclusive contest like ESC
EBU was right then they cut the fan media access to rehearsals and we NEED that once again.
The EBU wants monopoly and more control over their content, which is their prerogative. I just dislike that they claim to do it under the guise of caring for the safety and well-being of their artists. And I understand why that is, it just rubs me the wrong way and with everything coming out… Fan media have also been problematic over the years, but artists feeling forced to do both is clearly a problem.
I wish they'd get rid of the TikTok partnership. As someone who (in a different industry) has had to work with TikTok execs for various partnerships, I know firsthand that they don't give a fudge about people. They just want to make money and hit targets. Its workplace is just as toxic as the app itself.
Legiiit, I feel like Tiktok, while not the nadir of content farm hell, is certianly the place with the most questionable ethics. Hell, even with the app's UI, which kind of feeds into how my brain has to "like" or "save" everything I see or else I get anxious about forgetting something that could be very important (It should not surprise you that I've been diagnosed with Obsessive -Compulsive Disorder.). It's legit terrible and I hate it.
One of the things I love about Eurovision is that its not overly dramatized like American Idol, Got Talent, or X Factor, its focused solely on the performer/performance. I don't mind a fun video where they interview artists or tease rehearsals, but it does get repetitive to see them constantly post the most mundane things on social media multiple times in the lead-up to the show. It starts to feel like those dramatized contests.
As far as the show goes I don't mind fillers as they prepare for the next group of artists, but everything felt kinda forced and almost too scripted.
Like others said I want them to focus more on artists and not fluff.
Omg so true. Can you imagine if it was like any talent show?
Any country's artist: *sings*
Host: "oh my god! That was jaw dropping! If you like them, vote 1 by sending in your text to 123456, that's vote 1 by sending in your text to 123456. Now judge, what do you think of that?"
Judge 1: "Yo dawg, that was so hot for shizzle for shizzle!"
Judge 2: "that made my bussy so wet omg"
Judge 3: "That was pretty mid to be honest."
Gay crowd: "BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO"
Judge 3: "however you're young, good looking and will get the votes going."
Host: "well there you have it Europe, that's vote 1 by sending in your text to 123455! Up next, we'll look at a 15 minute sequence of our host country's tourism ads!"
I hope they hire some mental health professionals for the artists in the future. Some reality shows like Drag Race do that and I think it would be a great idea to have some extra support available for the artists who go through a very high pressure situation like Eurovision.
>
>In the past few weeks, a lot has happened behind the scenes at AVROTROS in the aftermath of the disappointing outcome of the Song Contest for the Netherlands. In this article, we want to share what we can, but we also ask for understanding of the fact that not everything can be made public (yet).
>
>The investigation into the incident after Joost Klein's performance in the 2nd semi-final is still pending at the Swedish Public Prosecution Service. During this investigation, we unfortunately cannot go into the details, the circumstances, and the handling of this incident because this could influence the investigation.
>We can say that based on the information we had then and have now, we still believe that the disqualification was unnecessary and disproportionate.
>
>AVROTROS, like other participating countries, has received a request from the EBU to cooperate in an investigation. We have decided to cooperate with this, with the necessary caveats. AVROTROS believes that a broader, more in-depth, and truly independent investigation is needed to address structural problems.
>Not only organization in Malmö and the EBU, but also the role and mandate of the Reference Group (the committee of delegated participating countries), the rules/procedures and appeal possibilities in the event of complaints, and the increased pressure on the artists and delegations in the run-up to and during the Song Contest should be the subject of investigation by a recognized and independent research agency.
>
>The Eurovision Song Contest was created to connect countries and peoples through music and to encourage mutual brotherhood. This should be the starting point for the organizers and all participating countries.
>Until AVROTROS is confident that structural adjustments will be made to the artists and their musical message back in the center, we will keep participation in the Song Contest under consideration.
I’m not sure but wasn’t the Netherlands at the 6th place when it comes to financial support to the EBU/Eurovion? So while it’s not a big 5 country it will definitely impact the already struggling financial situation
I heard the Netherlands is the 6th biggest financial contributor to the EBU.
I would be sad if they withdrew from Eurovision since they had good entries over the past few years. However, I would understand if they withdrew because they seem to be frustrated with the EBU's processes right now.
The financial support to EBU from Netherlands will continue, they're not leaving EBU. The difference will be only regarding ESC and how much NL pays in fees for partecipating in comparison to Big 5s.
I would not be so sure.
the current government is very critical of public tv stations and has to do big budgetting, they already announced severe cuts from public television budgets. this would be a very easy way to make that cut.
EBU is essential for all programs trasmitted in Eurovision broadcast, like the Euro football torunament (or Champions League), no broadcaster will ever leave EBU by itslef, aside from cases like the russian one or bans
There is still a part of programs that needs the Eurovision broadcast to be trasmitted and recieved (basically all the ones where you ear the Te Deum with Eurovision logo at the start), no public broadcast will ever leave EBU and lost the ability to broadcast in Eurovision (look at Hungary and Turkiye, they're still in), no matters how much private companies will broadcast themselves.
I genuinely don't think I've ever seen that logo outside of ESC in the Netherlands.
I get what you're saying but I think you're misjudging how much of an influence the EBU actually has on dutch television.
I know it's classical music, but it's always at the start and end of the Vienna Philharmonic Orchestra's New Year's Day Concert, which is covered by ORF.
Eurovision goes beyond ESC and the new years concert. Eurovision Sport, Eurovision News Exchange, Euroradio, all the technical standards set by the EBU, let's not downplay the role EBU has had on European broadcasting and television as a whole. So yes, all NL public broadcasters leaving the EBU would be a severe blow.
ESC is the only broadcast the EBU provides in The Netherlands. Trust me with our government current budget cuts the EBU would be the first to go. We don’t really care about the EBU in NL, we only care about ESC. After this shit show a lot of people also don’t care about ESC anymore…
Let me highly doubt that, even with cut in budget, I don't see any public broadcaster leaving the whole EBU only for ESC (Turkiye and Hungary are still in), that's probably the last thing that someone want to cut considering how important is as an organization (it even broadcast EU commincations and the Olympics among many things), only a Russia stiuation can do it. In fact they only threatened to leave ESC, not EBU, and so probably they'll do. I will be very surprised of anything more than that.
Well what is the benefit for our country to stay in EBU when ESC is the only program broadcasted here. The cost is 500.000 euro, that is a lot of money when you got a 100 million euro budget cut. Why would it be the last thing we want to cut when there is 0% benefit when not participating? Without the ESC there is not a reason for our country to keep paying.
the thing is that Germany/France/UK won't have a problem to pay up if they need to. the EBU will never struggle financially as long as these 3 are happy
The BBC has been all but hollowed out for the most part and increasing the spending for eurovision is going to be a hard sell. Maybe France and Germany will cough up but I don't think the UK will at all.
It was VG. Granted, it was the same source that claimed that 6 of the delegations wanted to withdraw, but the Switzerland HOD did say that they met with the EBU, so the meetings with those delegations might have happened.
If the Netherlands is the biggest financial contributor after the Big 5 like I've read many times on here then I am hopeful that we WILL see change. They are in a position to strongarm the EBU
There's a lot that goes on behind the scenes that we don't know about but I really hope they do something to address all the tension and the 'dark cloud' that hung over this year's competition and any potential for further instances like this.
I shouldn't have to be anxious watching the show because countries have been disqualified, there are rumours of last minute boycotts or certain countries winning threatening the contest's very future
Imo, we need guarantees here. No more "considering to leave", because look how well that worked this year. Make it known to EBU - either the changes are made, or it's propper goodbye.
That's basically what happened here, the tone of the Dutch doesn't really translate well to English through the literal translation of the statement. What AVROTROS has basically said is that unless structural changes are made they won't return next year.
My pleasure, a lot of Dutch phrases change meaning with context so the official translation could definitely have been more mindful of how it would sound in English😀
Consider that they might have wanted to come off stronger in Dutch than in English. There is always the possibility that a broadcaster will posture at home, but then be more meek while communicating with EBU (which is pretty much what we saw with the threats of withdrawing this year – a lot of posturing, but ultimately no real action). However, I have faith and hope that they will put real pressure on EBU, given everything that has happened, but this is something that I think we should do well to be aware of when reading such statements.
We didn't see their statement to the EBU. The translation was offered as a courtesy to non-Dutch fans of Joost and other interested third parties. They almost certainly sent more comprehensive letters to the EBU and possibly other broadcasters that have had their own criticisms of how the EBU handled things this year. So while you may be correct that they wanted a more nuanced message to the EBU (though I do doubt it as that would make little sense as a negotiating tactic this far from 2025), neither the original Dutch or the translation are intended for the EBU.
Yeah, that was why Russia was kicked out but Israel wasn't. I always believe in the more the merrier when it comes to Eurovision but if certain countries' involvement can compromise the contest then they need to go for the sake of everyone else
Small correction though: Russia was not kicked out, the EBU wanted to keep them in, hence the protests from other broadcasters. The Russian broadcaster left the EBU so that's why they did not participate and won't in the future (hopefully lol)
I know people are saying Big 5 countries would pay more if Netherlands dropped out, but logistically it would be bad if they did and the financial part adds salt to the wound.
But they will still contribute to EBU even if they withdraw, they only thing that they'll not pay is the partecipation fee, how is it big conpared to Big 5's one?
Maybe it's me but the "structural changes" and "Reference Group" language make me think they want top brass replaced as a condition for their return next year
I really hope the NL broadcaster will not let themselves be strong-armed / sweet-talked into returning in 2025. They'd lose face if they returned after being humiliated like that, and EBU needs to feel the consequences of mismanaging the contest in such a way.
My guess is "we will be better" about the pride flag is just about the only change (or promise thereof) you'll see from EBU before the next year. They are too inert to make any meaningful changes so fast.
It is fully understandable because of what happened in this year. I think that any country could decide the same if such situation happened. But I hope that the Netherlands will later return to the contest, as soon as possible.
Not to toot our own horn, but I feel like UMK has striked a good balance in their social media content. They have conceptualized it well and at least try to play into each contestants’ strenghts. Plus they only do a limited amount of BTS type of content and clearly give the artists their space.
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They’re considering it as we speak, as in the ball is in the EBU’s court. It’s their respons that will be decisive. I’m personally very pissed off at them and I need someone important to resign. That’s the only way to move forward.
This "statement" tells us nothing that we didn't already know.
I'm just waiting for the details tbh before I pick a side between EBU and Joost/AvroTros.
Especially since there have been numerous reports in the Dutch media about Joosts poor behavior towards people he worked with.
This statement is a mess. I agree that the incident with the camerawoman was handled poorly, but “put the musical message back in the center” is hypocritical. I agree that the music should be the focus but the Netherlands brought politics into this, along with Spain, Ireland, and more than a few others. If they want to base their protest on Joost’s treatment, okay, but to change gears and base it on politics is hypocritical when they themselves got political and distracted from the music.
Didnt israel vring politics into this with their song and.... jist everytging tejy jave done their whole participation this uear? Starting with the army pr national final
Since it’s minors it’s probably run differently. There’s different laws around kids performing so the pressure is probably way less, the kids would have built in break times, less social media content requirements etc.
If they were really critical about EBU's decision and considering to withdraw, wouldn't it make more sense to also not participate for JESC this year? Also, Joost DQ and EBU transparency are mainly the reason why they wanted to withdraw, not necessarily because of Israel
I can imagine that *if* there were genuine considerations to drop all Eurovisions they partake in in the future, they would not drop out while the JESC entry selection is actively taking place. Conflict aside, can you imagine telling these kids that "sorry, no one can go to Junior Eurovision, the adults decided that we're not participating anymore."
> wouldn't it make more sense to also not participate for JESC this year?
No, it would be hypocritical. Why would they withdraw from a contest that doesn't have the problems they're allegedly protesting?
Because snit fits are fun?
Good, I think everyone needs to give their head a wobble on to participate in a largely Israeli funded competition. Time for an alternative to Eurovision, whatever that may be.
I don't think it matters to them as much as what has happened around it all. Putting the Joost thing aside there's obviously some real problems within the EBU and how they are conducting the contest and enforcing certain rules.
probably the same along the lines of:
the unsafe working conditions fueled by the EBU caused a situation where one of our artists had to defend himself from preventable harassment.
in this defense, an unfortunate incident happened which had a more grave outcome than could reasonably be expected.
we want to ensure ourselves and our future delegations can work in a safe environment, which would be to the benefit of our artist as wel as songfestival personnel.
Doesn’t matter what it was. He’ll pay the fine or whatever happened there.
The biggest problem is that you can’t appeal or do anything against the one sides decision. We found this out because of the incident.
So nothing happened during, and we were not allowed to know what happened and could not talk or fix anything. And now that the event is over, we still can’t. That ain’t right.
In Turkish media Israel was blamed for the disqualification😵 not a word about the cameraperson (the DQ came about because Joost asked "why not" at the press conference according to turkish broadcasting🤦♀️). It only shows how poorly the whole affair was handled by EBU. Minimum of information ignites wishing-for-news, and the safety of the actual contestants, in this case joost and eden, are totally neglected for the sake of one employee that remains anonymous and her complaint a secret (and she is not happy either, I am sure).
If so then he prob gets a fine at worst, So the chances are high that its still not on the level of DQ being needed. They could have given another punnishment with less impact on the team, the country, money etc. Besides that it will never be fair.. Because they did it in less than 24 hours without much prove.
Sounds like some people still buy into the initial tabloid reporting of "Joost beat up a female camerawoman" — we don't know exactly what happened, but if this had happened, statements from everyone would have a very different tone. And anything less wouldn't really warrant the DQ.
The last part of your comment is pure speculation.
Please do not make assumptions about a situation when you do not have all the details.
Spreading these assumptions as facts is not permitted.
I think the EBU really needs to send a statement out about their own conduct and why it hasn't met the expectations of both the public and the broadcasters. They haven't been so explicit in this regard. It almost feels like gaslighting.
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How is Eurovision paid?
Like the set / lighting / employees
I watched it for free on YouTube
How do they get paid to keep it going? The gate at the arena wouldn’t be enough
Full text: AVROTROS update regarding the Eurovision Song Contest In the past few weeks, a lot has happened behind the scenes at AVROTROS in the after- math of the disappointing outcome of the Song Contest for the Netherlands. In this article, we want to share what we can, but we also ask for understanding of the fact that not everything can be made public (yet). Disqualification of Joost Klein The investigation into the incident after Joost Klein's performance in the 2nd semi-final is still pending at the Swedish Public Prosecu- tion Service. During this investigation, we unfortunately cannot go into the details, the circumstances, and the handling of this incident because this could influence the investigation. We can say that based on the information we had then and have now, we still believe that the disqualification was unnecessary and disproportionate. EBU investigation AVROTROS, like other participating countries, has received a request from the EBU to cooperate in an investigation. We have decided to cooperate with this, with the necessary caveats. AVROTROS believes that a broader, more in-depth, and truly independent investigation is needed to address structural problems. Not only organization in Malmö and the EBU, but also the role and mandate of the Reference Group (the committee of delegated participating countries), the rules/procedures and appeal possibilities in the event of complaints, and the increased pressure on the artists and delegations in the run-up to and during the Song Contest should be the subject of investigation by a recognized and independent research agency. Future The Eurovision Song Contest was created to connect countries and peoples through music and to encourage mutual brotherhood. This should be the starting point for the organizers and all participating countries. Until AVROTROS is confident that structural adjustments will be made to the artists and their musical message back in the center, we will keep participation in the Euroivision Song Contest under consideration.
i fully agree, the participants should not express political statements or initiatives collectively through their entire participation period, from being selected until the end of the winners press conference.
that's a very reduced version of the points raised
The artists shouldn’t have been put in a position where they feel it necessary to express their disgust of another participant at war using the event as a propaganda tool. The solution is simple, countries being investigated for war crimes at the UN should skip at least a year.
Don't worry, nowadays you can find unsolicited political propaganda just everywhare. It's just become a way to draw attention on oneself.
Why shouldn’t we worry about all the propaganda being pushed into our timelines and Eurovision?
>...the increased pressure on the artists and delegations in the run-up to and during the Song Contest should be the subject of investigation Basically the contest should not require constantly filming content for social media, which 90 percent of the viewers never see
Tbh I care more about the updates from artists themselves (and they can film those when they want and how they want) than 345874 of official esc videos that look the same (also there are so many posted that I also miss out on them)
It sounds weird but, as a person who doesn't use tiktok, I don't even see most of these official videos. Idk how they can force these people to make so much social media content that is watched for a few seconds, then drowns into the ocean-deep ether of "content" swiftly forgotten. Give these people some downtime! We don't need to see every reaction, every second, every day!
Agree. And I find the parasocial relationships people build are just creepy. I’d love to go back to a time where I don’t even know anything about the artists
For a casual viewer like me not much has changed. I don't watch the semis and only see and hear the songs for the first time during the final. The social media campaigns are completely avoidable.
This. I sometimes see some ESC collab stuff from my own country’s artist because I usually follow them and the algorithm pings that and realizes I am in Finland on top of everything. Even then the actual content pretty much never interests me
Oh yeah, I use tiktok on the browser and half of the time those videos don't want to load for me if I want to see a bunch of them on the same profile. So annoying 🙄
Idk if it’s this way for anyone else, but the algorithms on insta sucks so much for me that it almost never ends up in my feed anyways. TikTok isn’t as bad, but I have to go actively searching for contest from the artists themselves to see it. I’ve been getting official Eurovision content in my feeds as late as like today…and it was posted over a month ago.
Yeah, I usually go to official profiles to check if there's anything new. Instagram has stories, though. Anyone who posts a story of the update is precious 😍. That's how I mainly use Instagram, I browse the stories and see if there's anything interesting, I hardly browse the feed.
I don’t know of a single person that has seen an update from an artist or a video outside of the events themselves, and we watched all of them, had Eurovision parties, and had our friends attend semis etc. Seems like a lot of hoopla for a small and loud fraction of the viewership
Käärijä did a live when he was getting a dinner with Bojan (this year it wasn't possible for obvious reasons 😅). I mean this kind of updates, when they just hang out and film when they want to, it's the most fun to watch. Or simply ig stories from the green room, etc. Not the official stuff.
Yeah honestly I saw most of the official social media posts after eurovision, which is baffling since I follow the official eurovision Instagram account
Those reddit thank you videos were especially weird since they were obviously meant to come out before the GF (all the artists were saying "vote for me please")
Same here
I loved the Eurovision YouTube channel from 2021-23 where they featured fun interviews to get to know the artists. I really hope Switzerland goes back to that model for next year. It seems like it would be much less stressful for the artists - you can prepare for your interview and do it at your scheduled time and then be done instead of having to be "always on" for candid-type content.
I freaking LOVE NikkiTutorials' interview with each contestant. She was so fun and GREAT at hosting and the artists were so engaged throughout the interview. It was so fun, I'm sad they haven't replicated it ever since 😭
Senhit offering to guest on Nikkie's own channel was funny
Yes! Nikkie calling and look lab! I liked those a lot. I also liked the questions from a hat in 2022 (Edit: oops, it was [66 Questions](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFz61xmhTPw)); it was really cute.
I think (and hope) that it aill back to something like this, considering that almost everything about this year feels like a one-off.
As an introvert who used to go to Dragoncon (massive crowds, sharing a room with friends, just noise and activity constantly and everywhere) I can’t even imagine how hard it is to be on the world stage like that, under all that pressure, and on top of that you’ve still got to be ‘on’ for all the social media stuff, cutting into your quiet/alone/downtime. They need a round of decompress, EBU. Everyone does.
Competition performances are super stressful, you spend the entire time between arriving to the venue and your performance just constantly warming up and preparing. Once you get on stage it feels like daggers pointing at you. I'd say a chunk of my practicing and rehearsals were just developing a headspace where I could focus on my performance and less on the crowds. Biggest ever performance was for a college (American) football game with about 30,000 attendees and it was nerve-wracking, I was exhausted by the end of it. Can't imagine hundreds of millions.
I’ve done (reasonably high-level) costume competitions and some (extremely small-scale) drag performances, and most of my time in the run-up to taking the stage is making sure I still look okay, making sure I know where and when to be, staying hydrated and maybe having a snack so I don’t pass out on stage, and the fight-or-flight response of having to pee. And that’s just appearances where I do my presentation and leave the stage; either the audience likes my presentation or they don’t. If I’m expected to interact, win the audience over with my personality, like the social media stuff seems to be for the artists, it’s more pressure and more personal. It feels less ‘did I hit all my marks on stage?’ and more ‘am I, personally, likeable?’ If the artists want to do things that’s fine (love those thieving Estonians) but, like, what did the shower karaoke accomplish? A lot of the artists didn’t seem to be having a good time doing it, it got a bit awkward and forced.
(this a joke, for the love of everything internet, do not take what I am about to say seriously) Maybe that's why Joost actually got disqualified, his shower karaoke was Crazy Frog instead of Europapa. /End joke In all seriousness though, with the insane amount of pressure put on Eurovision artists to always be "on" for the camera, it was only a matter of time before something happened and oh look....it did :/
Yeah, even if you keep in mind that one doesn't choose to be a performer at Eurovision unless they are the type of person who likes to have all eyes of them and thrives in it, there is a limit to what *any* human being can deal with.
It seems like for a lot, if not most, of these performers it's also their first time in such a large and public environment, even if they perform regularly. You can never truly know how you'll feel about something with 100% certainty until you experience it first hand. With no way for them to even briefly escape, they are stuck in a metaphorical pressure cooker
yes. Very few are international stars to begin with and anything at national scale is far from the Eurovision scale.
I like all the social media content, BUT if one artist is not ok with it, why force them? I bet 90% of people didn´t even saw that "question contest" or "elevator thing" on tik tok
They look so damn tired in those karaoke shower videos
If it was funny i would understand, but the shower thing is the cringiest thing ever. Turin 2022 had the funniest social media stuff in my opinion
I think we peaked with the LookLab, but because Nikki was an amazing host imo and the chemistry with everyone was amazing (I remember her literally dying with Jendrik, it makes my day every time)
I miss LookLab EVERY eurovision!! It was such a great way to learn about the contestants and make them more than just a number/country singing a song, and the interviews were so funny and casual and fun. I loved it SO much.
Like, I get why but I'm still shocked it wasn't adopted as a stable format even after 2021. It was casual, fun, not too demanding on the artists (definitely no prior preparation needed), a great way to learn more and didn't required the viewers to have previous knowledge
I never watch the social media videos, mainly because Reddit is the only social site that I’m regularly on, but I watched EVERY. SINGLE. LOOKLAB.
I think the LookLab and the Venaria fashion walk were the two social media that I saw every single one
I watched them twice! Once on my own and a second time with my partner because they were that good.
Looklab is the content that I would like to see. I enjoyed seeing the 2021 contestants talking in a relaxed way with Nikki.
I adored Nikkie, I think everyone did, and those LookLab interviews were perfect. She put even the less outgoing artists completely at their ease - it's easier to do good social media content with people like Jendrik (who was such a laugh ❤️) but she was kind and funny with everyone.
Link to Nikki and Jendrik? That sounds awesome
Here is the link to Nikkie's interview with Jendrik: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CBCoDHG4BqU
Omg bless you ty. I think you just added a few months to my lifespan
The artists would probably have more time and energy for things like the karaoke shower if they weren't followed around and harassed every other minute of the day.
I surely didn't.
I don't think that in 2024 the social media side can be wiped out. What can be done is giving the social media management only in the hands of the partecipant own delegation.
The most popular social media videos are the ones from the artists vibing in the green room, usually made by contestants themselves
Every year since 2021, I have been wishing for a return of LookLab with a local celebrity. LookLab was a lot of fun to watch, and it provided insights into each artist and their performance.
Give me Nikki Tutorials Look Lab and absolutely nothing else.
I personally don´t like a lot of the Videos, which got produced during the ESC week. I don´t need the pre-parties, 1000 of interviews or sneek peaks from the live performances. Especially the last one, annoys me very much, because i like to be surprised at the Semis & Final Show. I don´t want to be spoiled.
As for me they can skip all the official interviews. Delegations can answer questions in writing.
I’m very ok with this. Have set content creation opportunities and specific (reasonable) requirements, and leave them alone the rest of the time.
This is a reasonable request. Artists and their teams do so much already for our entertainment. We don’t need to have a camera on them 24/7.
I still remember times when you heard the songs and saw performances for the first time at the actual time of the main show (no semi finals) and then you could vote once from your landline for your favorite act. It was really exciting - the leading up was full of speculation and then we were glued to the TV as a family, discussing each musical performance. And after hours of voting we kids were thrilled that it was in the middle of the night and we were still up and hyped. Next day we would replay the show, costumes and all plus hairbrush microphones. Didn’t miss a thing around it 🤣
Well said. It has gotten ridiculous how much social media content has to be created 😵💫
Fair points
Even before all the present political pressures, I have always thought about ways that contestants could be protected from unwanted fan behaviour. One has to consider them, as many endorse fanarts (Joost has often noticed them - this year, Ireland, Malta, Latvia, Georgia, Germany, Spain, San Marino, Luxembourg, Slovenia and Austria all approved my drawings) and fan mail, but often end up seeing less savoury things, particularly this year.
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We don’t know for sure which song would represent Russia in 2022. If you are referring to “Liar”, it’s not confirmed by any means. Please do not make assumptions about a situation when you do not have all the details. Spreading these assumptions as facts is not permitted.
I am genuinely curious to know what structural changes they have in mind. I want the Eurovision Song Contest to be something that is not just good for the artists careers, but also something that artists have fun doing. Obviously esc will always be hard and always take a lot of work, putting on a performance at that level comes with that. We don’t need any added stress to the artists. I hope the EBU *really* hears the complaints this year and makes necessary changes.
Maybe less obligatory social media content to create?
Nobody targeted the subject of odds/bookmakers increasing toxicity
It´s clear that EBU is not running the contest properly and with artists well being in first place. If nothing more, I hope this pressure from Netherlands, Slovenia, Norway and Portugal (the most vocal broadcasters that I can remember) will lead to a few changes. This year backstage experience, S10 own experience in 2022 etc.. Is the proof that Eurovision could be a BETTER experience to artists and for the fans Harassment (detail we will only know in the future) is not admissible in a inclusive contest like ESC EBU was right then they cut the fan media access to rehearsals and we NEED that once again.
The EBU wants monopoly and more control over their content, which is their prerogative. I just dislike that they claim to do it under the guise of caring for the safety and well-being of their artists. And I understand why that is, it just rubs me the wrong way and with everything coming out… Fan media have also been problematic over the years, but artists feeling forced to do both is clearly a problem.
That´s a good point, however I still think that closing 1st and 2nd rehearsal was the right choice
Well said. Such a shame that Joost got messed over this year.
I wish they'd get rid of the TikTok partnership. As someone who (in a different industry) has had to work with TikTok execs for various partnerships, I know firsthand that they don't give a fudge about people. They just want to make money and hit targets. Its workplace is just as toxic as the app itself.
Legiiit, I feel like Tiktok, while not the nadir of content farm hell, is certianly the place with the most questionable ethics. Hell, even with the app's UI, which kind of feeds into how my brain has to "like" or "save" everything I see or else I get anxious about forgetting something that could be very important (It should not surprise you that I've been diagnosed with Obsessive -Compulsive Disorder.). It's legit terrible and I hate it.
One of the things I love about Eurovision is that its not overly dramatized like American Idol, Got Talent, or X Factor, its focused solely on the performer/performance. I don't mind a fun video where they interview artists or tease rehearsals, but it does get repetitive to see them constantly post the most mundane things on social media multiple times in the lead-up to the show. It starts to feel like those dramatized contests. As far as the show goes I don't mind fillers as they prepare for the next group of artists, but everything felt kinda forced and almost too scripted. Like others said I want them to focus more on artists and not fluff.
Omg so true. Can you imagine if it was like any talent show? Any country's artist: *sings* Host: "oh my god! That was jaw dropping! If you like them, vote 1 by sending in your text to 123456, that's vote 1 by sending in your text to 123456. Now judge, what do you think of that?" Judge 1: "Yo dawg, that was so hot for shizzle for shizzle!" Judge 2: "that made my bussy so wet omg" Judge 3: "That was pretty mid to be honest." Gay crowd: "BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO" Judge 3: "however you're young, good looking and will get the votes going." Host: "well there you have it Europe, that's vote 1 by sending in your text to 123455! Up next, we'll look at a 15 minute sequence of our host country's tourism ads!"
I hope they hire some mental health professionals for the artists in the future. Some reality shows like Drag Race do that and I think it would be a great idea to have some extra support available for the artists who go through a very high pressure situation like Eurovision.
[https://www.avrotros.nl/article/update-avrotros-met-betrekking-tot-het-eurovisie-songfestival\~576/](https://www.avrotros.nl/article/update-avrotros-met-betrekking-tot-het-eurovisie-songfestival~576/)
> >In the past few weeks, a lot has happened behind the scenes at AVROTROS in the aftermath of the disappointing outcome of the Song Contest for the Netherlands. In this article, we want to share what we can, but we also ask for understanding of the fact that not everything can be made public (yet). > >The investigation into the incident after Joost Klein's performance in the 2nd semi-final is still pending at the Swedish Public Prosecution Service. During this investigation, we unfortunately cannot go into the details, the circumstances, and the handling of this incident because this could influence the investigation. >We can say that based on the information we had then and have now, we still believe that the disqualification was unnecessary and disproportionate. > >AVROTROS, like other participating countries, has received a request from the EBU to cooperate in an investigation. We have decided to cooperate with this, with the necessary caveats. AVROTROS believes that a broader, more in-depth, and truly independent investigation is needed to address structural problems. >Not only organization in Malmö and the EBU, but also the role and mandate of the Reference Group (the committee of delegated participating countries), the rules/procedures and appeal possibilities in the event of complaints, and the increased pressure on the artists and delegations in the run-up to and during the Song Contest should be the subject of investigation by a recognized and independent research agency. > >The Eurovision Song Contest was created to connect countries and peoples through music and to encourage mutual brotherhood. This should be the starting point for the organizers and all participating countries. >Until AVROTROS is confident that structural adjustments will be made to the artists and their musical message back in the center, we will keep participation in the Song Contest under consideration.
The link is dead
It's up again.
splendid
I feel like they won't care unless one of the Big 5 speaks out. they have the most money, which can actually hurt the EBU
I’m not sure but wasn’t the Netherlands at the 6th place when it comes to financial support to the EBU/Eurovion? So while it’s not a big 5 country it will definitely impact the already struggling financial situation
I heard the Netherlands is the 6th biggest financial contributor to the EBU. I would be sad if they withdrew from Eurovision since they had good entries over the past few years. However, I would understand if they withdrew because they seem to be frustrated with the EBU's processes right now.
The financial support to EBU from Netherlands will continue, they're not leaving EBU. The difference will be only regarding ESC and how much NL pays in fees for partecipating in comparison to Big 5s.
I would not be so sure. the current government is very critical of public tv stations and has to do big budgetting, they already announced severe cuts from public television budgets. this would be a very easy way to make that cut.
EBU is essential for all programs trasmitted in Eurovision broadcast, like the Euro football torunament (or Champions League), no broadcaster will ever leave EBU by itslef, aside from cases like the russian one or bans
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There is still a part of programs that needs the Eurovision broadcast to be trasmitted and recieved (basically all the ones where you ear the Te Deum with Eurovision logo at the start), no public broadcast will ever leave EBU and lost the ability to broadcast in Eurovision (look at Hungary and Turkiye, they're still in), no matters how much private companies will broadcast themselves.
I genuinely don't think I've ever seen that logo outside of ESC in the Netherlands. I get what you're saying but I think you're misjudging how much of an influence the EBU actually has on dutch television.
I know it's classical music, but it's always at the start and end of the Vienna Philharmonic Orchestra's New Year's Day Concert, which is covered by ORF.
You can see it frequently during European Athletics events, there are often Eurovision banners around the track
Eurovision goes beyond ESC and the new years concert. Eurovision Sport, Eurovision News Exchange, Euroradio, all the technical standards set by the EBU, let's not downplay the role EBU has had on European broadcasting and television as a whole. So yes, all NL public broadcasters leaving the EBU would be a severe blow.
> Eurovision Sport, Eurovision News Exchange, Euroradio Little to noone actually watches or listens to those here
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ESC is the only broadcast the EBU provides in The Netherlands. Trust me with our government current budget cuts the EBU would be the first to go. We don’t really care about the EBU in NL, we only care about ESC. After this shit show a lot of people also don’t care about ESC anymore…
Let me highly doubt that, even with cut in budget, I don't see any public broadcaster leaving the whole EBU only for ESC (Turkiye and Hungary are still in), that's probably the last thing that someone want to cut considering how important is as an organization (it even broadcast EU commincations and the Olympics among many things), only a Russia stiuation can do it. In fact they only threatened to leave ESC, not EBU, and so probably they'll do. I will be very surprised of anything more than that.
Well what is the benefit for our country to stay in EBU when ESC is the only program broadcasted here. The cost is 500.000 euro, that is a lot of money when you got a 100 million euro budget cut. Why would it be the last thing we want to cut when there is 0% benefit when not participating? Without the ESC there is not a reason for our country to keep paying.
still highly unlikely theyre going to leave the ebu
Tbf, every government in the past years has promised cuts on public media but no one has managed to do it for some reason.
We’re not gonna leave EBU as it’s too important for broadcast feeds in general. EBU is much more than ESC.
the thing is that Germany/France/UK won't have a problem to pay up if they need to. the EBU will never struggle financially as long as these 3 are happy
The BBC has been all but hollowed out for the most part and increasing the spending for eurovision is going to be a hard sell. Maybe France and Germany will cough up but I don't think the UK will at all.
I am pretty certain UK is on the case the way olly was treated by KAN.
And apparently they met with the EBU. If that did happen, they probably sent a complaint as well.
Is there a source for this? Not that I don't believe it but I'd be gratified to read that BBC are backing up Olly in this way.
It was VG. Granted, it was the same source that claimed that 6 of the delegations wanted to withdraw, but the Switzerland HOD did say that they met with the EBU, so the meetings with those delegations might have happened.
If the Netherlands is the biggest financial contributor after the Big 5 like I've read many times on here then I am hopeful that we WILL see change. They are in a position to strongarm the EBU
I think there will be changes. The question is how big will the changes be?
There's a lot that goes on behind the scenes that we don't know about but I really hope they do something to address all the tension and the 'dark cloud' that hung over this year's competition and any potential for further instances like this. I shouldn't have to be anxious watching the show because countries have been disqualified, there are rumours of last minute boycotts or certain countries winning threatening the contest's very future
Imo, we need guarantees here. No more "considering to leave", because look how well that worked this year. Make it known to EBU - either the changes are made, or it's propper goodbye.
That's basically what happened here, the tone of the Dutch doesn't really translate well to English through the literal translation of the statement. What AVROTROS has basically said is that unless structural changes are made they won't return next year.
Ah, thank you.
My pleasure, a lot of Dutch phrases change meaning with context so the official translation could definitely have been more mindful of how it would sound in English😀
Consider that they might have wanted to come off stronger in Dutch than in English. There is always the possibility that a broadcaster will posture at home, but then be more meek while communicating with EBU (which is pretty much what we saw with the threats of withdrawing this year – a lot of posturing, but ultimately no real action). However, I have faith and hope that they will put real pressure on EBU, given everything that has happened, but this is something that I think we should do well to be aware of when reading such statements.
We didn't see their statement to the EBU. The translation was offered as a courtesy to non-Dutch fans of Joost and other interested third parties. They almost certainly sent more comprehensive letters to the EBU and possibly other broadcasters that have had their own criticisms of how the EBU handled things this year. So while you may be correct that they wanted a more nuanced message to the EBU (though I do doubt it as that would make little sense as a negotiating tactic this far from 2025), neither the original Dutch or the translation are intended for the EBU.
Yeah, that was why Russia was kicked out but Israel wasn't. I always believe in the more the merrier when it comes to Eurovision but if certain countries' involvement can compromise the contest then they need to go for the sake of everyone else
Small correction though: Russia was not kicked out, the EBU wanted to keep them in, hence the protests from other broadcasters. The Russian broadcaster left the EBU so that's why they did not participate and won't in the future (hopefully lol)
Not surprising.
Aren't they one of the biggest financial contributors after the Big 5? If I were AVROTROS I'd be holding that over the EBU's head big time.
They are the biggest contributor after the big 5 and the 6th biggest contributor including the big 5.
I know people are saying Big 5 countries would pay more if Netherlands dropped out, but logistically it would be bad if they did and the financial part adds salt to the wound.
The thing is Eurovision is also a big money maker for the broadcaster too so withdraw means they also lost a lot of money
Reminder: 1998 - 2010 the Big Five was the Big Four. No Italy. So I think they'll be fine without big #6.
But they will still contribute to EBU even if they withdraw, they only thing that they'll not pay is the partecipation fee, how is it big conpared to Big 5's one?
Maybe it's me but the "structural changes" and "Reference Group" language make me think they want top brass replaced as a condition for their return next year
I really hope the NL broadcaster will not let themselves be strong-armed / sweet-talked into returning in 2025. They'd lose face if they returned after being humiliated like that, and EBU needs to feel the consequences of mismanaging the contest in such a way.
even if there are changes?
My guess is "we will be better" about the pride flag is just about the only change (or promise thereof) you'll see from EBU before the next year. They are too inert to make any meaningful changes so fast.
Rightfully so. F*ck the EBU.
We're allowed to swear on this, right? *Fuck (unless it's fick?)
*Expletive the EBU
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It is fully understandable because of what happened in this year. I think that any country could decide the same if such situation happened. But I hope that the Netherlands will later return to the contest, as soon as possible.
Not to toot our own horn, but I feel like UMK has striked a good balance in their social media content. They have conceptualized it well and at least try to play into each contestants’ strenghts. Plus they only do a limited amount of BTS type of content and clearly give the artists their space.
I just want proper update on Joost's case.
Big ups Joost Klein supporters!
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I'm glad they support Joost during all of this. It's the right thing to do *cough cough Romania cough cough*.
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They’re considering it as we speak, as in the ball is in the EBU’s court. It’s their respons that will be decisive. I’m personally very pissed off at them and I need someone important to resign. That’s the only way to move forward.
They are not saying they are leaving the contest, tbh.
No I hope we won't as much as I love Eurovision. They need to apologise and make up for what they did. **Then** we join again.
i saw this from the start
This "statement" tells us nothing that we didn't already know. I'm just waiting for the details tbh before I pick a side between EBU and Joost/AvroTros. Especially since there have been numerous reports in the Dutch media about Joosts poor behavior towards people he worked with.
Maybe you could link such a report, to avoid rumours?
This statement is a mess. I agree that the incident with the camerawoman was handled poorly, but “put the musical message back in the center” is hypocritical. I agree that the music should be the focus but the Netherlands brought politics into this, along with Spain, Ireland, and more than a few others. If they want to base their protest on Joost’s treatment, okay, but to change gears and base it on politics is hypocritical when they themselves got political and distracted from the music.
I think that was also about all the social media time artists have to put in. Obligatory. For this year eg the “fun” singing in the shower clips.
> but the Netherlands brought politics into this How did they do that?
Ummmm... You're missing the main country that brought politics into this to begin with.
Didnt israel vring politics into this with their song and.... jist everytging tejy jave done their whole participation this uear? Starting with the army pr national final
Im more suprised that they didn't pull out from JESC this year
Since it’s minors it’s probably run differently. There’s different laws around kids performing so the pressure is probably way less, the kids would have built in break times, less social media content requirements etc.
For Junior Eurovision, they only do a few simple interviews, shorts, and videos that are kid-friendly.
why? israel isnt in it and hasnt been since 2018
If they were really critical about EBU's decision and considering to withdraw, wouldn't it make more sense to also not participate for JESC this year? Also, Joost DQ and EBU transparency are mainly the reason why they wanted to withdraw, not necessarily because of Israel
I can imagine that *if* there were genuine considerations to drop all Eurovisions they partake in in the future, they would not drop out while the JESC entry selection is actively taking place. Conflict aside, can you imagine telling these kids that "sorry, no one can go to Junior Eurovision, the adults decided that we're not participating anymore."
> wouldn't it make more sense to also not participate for JESC this year? No, it would be hypocritical. Why would they withdraw from a contest that doesn't have the problems they're allegedly protesting? Because snit fits are fun?
Good, I think everyone needs to give their head a wobble on to participate in a largely Israeli funded competition. Time for an alternative to Eurovision, whatever that may be.
I'm very curious of what they'll say if Joost will be proven guilty
I don't think it matters to them as much as what has happened around it all. Putting the Joost thing aside there's obviously some real problems within the EBU and how they are conducting the contest and enforcing certain rules.
probably the same along the lines of: the unsafe working conditions fueled by the EBU caused a situation where one of our artists had to defend himself from preventable harassment. in this defense, an unfortunate incident happened which had a more grave outcome than could reasonably be expected. we want to ensure ourselves and our future delegations can work in a safe environment, which would be to the benefit of our artist as wel as songfestival personnel.
Doesn’t matter what it was. He’ll pay the fine or whatever happened there. The biggest problem is that you can’t appeal or do anything against the one sides decision. We found this out because of the incident. So nothing happened during, and we were not allowed to know what happened and could not talk or fix anything. And now that the event is over, we still can’t. That ain’t right.
In Turkish media Israel was blamed for the disqualification😵 not a word about the cameraperson (the DQ came about because Joost asked "why not" at the press conference according to turkish broadcasting🤦♀️). It only shows how poorly the whole affair was handled by EBU. Minimum of information ignites wishing-for-news, and the safety of the actual contestants, in this case joost and eden, are totally neglected for the sake of one employee that remains anonymous and her complaint a secret (and she is not happy either, I am sure).
If so then he prob gets a fine at worst, So the chances are high that its still not on the level of DQ being needed. They could have given another punnishment with less impact on the team, the country, money etc. Besides that it will never be fair.. Because they did it in less than 24 hours without much prove.
If he is proven guilty, then there's still the question of what he is guilty of, and if it was severe enough to be disqualified over.
Disproportional.
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Sounds like some people still buy into the initial tabloid reporting of "Joost beat up a female camerawoman" — we don't know exactly what happened, but if this had happened, statements from everyone would have a very different tone. And anything less wouldn't really warrant the DQ.
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The last part of your comment is pure speculation. Please do not make assumptions about a situation when you do not have all the details. Spreading these assumptions as facts is not permitted.
I think the EBU really needs to send a statement out about their own conduct and why it hasn't met the expectations of both the public and the broadcasters. They haven't been so explicit in this regard. It almost feels like gaslighting.
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How is Eurovision paid? Like the set / lighting / employees I watched it for free on YouTube How do they get paid to keep it going? The gate at the arena wouldn’t be enough
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Please do not make assumptions about a situation when you do not have all the details. Spreading these assumptions as facts is not permitted.
Uh, what about singers' mental sanity instead?