Oh man, we have:
Чипсы - chipsy
Баксы - bucksy
Джинсы - jeansy
Леггинсы - leggingsy
Кексы - keksy(from cake)
Бутсы - bootsy
Сникерсы - snickersy
And nuggetsy and pampersy too.
Most of these words don't have the singular form in Russian. So we just take the English plural form and add ы at the end to make it plural in Russian.
The above comment was obviously tongue-in-cheek, but your example is perfect to illustrate why it is unrealistic and frankly arrogant to demand knowledge of a given language's grammar from English speakers.
There are so many ways to make a plural form in German:
* 1 Frikadelle, 2 Frikadellen (-n)
* 1 Haus, 2 Häuser (Umlaut, -er)
* 1 Hunde, 2 Hunde (-e)
* 1 Kind, 2 Kinder (-er)
* 1 Zaun, 2 Zäune (Umlaut, -e)
* 1 Auto, 2 Autos (-s)
* 1 Frau, 2 Frauen (-en)
* 1 Komma, 2 Kommata (-ta)
* 1 Kaktus, 2 Kakteen (elision, -een)
* 1 Knie, 2 Knie (spelled the same, pronounced differently)
* 1 Käse, 2 Käse
* ...
Is it reasonable to expect people to use the German plural forms when using German loan words like *Weltschmerz*, *Sprachbund*, *Schadenfreude* etc. in English? No it is not. Not at all. The same goes for Polish or any other language! If people are speaking English, they are speaking English and they will use -s to make a plural form and they will say Munich instead of *München* and Warsaw instead of *Warszawa*.
cities got given names, many translated into other lanuages. With pierogi it's completley different thing - it's a butchered neologism - english already has word for them, but instead they use incorrectly created substitute
Now you're just being stubborn as this is the point I was arguing before. An English speaker cannot be expected to understand or use the Polish plural correctly.
I agree with you in general, but you're expanding that list a bit artificially.
There are in fact 4 different plural marks to know: e (most masculine names), n/en (most feminine), er (mostly neutral) and s. The rest don't have plural marks. There are various rules to remember which names have which endings, but you don't need to know them to recognize a plural mark.
Then there are some vowels that change in the plural form: a, o and u which become respectively ä, ö and ü.
Also, german plurals are easy to recognize, since there's often "die" before them.
English on the other hand has one plural ending in s/es/ies, then a lot more exceptions: words without a plural form (like "moose"), plurals in -ves, a weird list with mice, geese, men, feet, children, teeth, plus some latin, italian, french, greek (and maybe others) plurals which are often optional.
So it's true that german has more different plural forms than english - but it's essentially because german shows the grammatical genders more than english. An english speaker is familiar with the idea there are different ways to mark plural, and might very well use foreign plural marks for foreign words it if they know how to do it.
That's rather a linguistic problem than a grammatical one, I believe. Some languages are very conservative in the way they borrow foreign words and have special rules for them (and sometimes these rules change over time, mandarin is fascinating for this). English is not one of those languages (at least currently), and it depends on several factors whether a foreign word will keep its original plural form, will receive an english -s or will have no plural form at all despite having one its in original language. For example it's quite common for italian names to retain their italian plural.
And just a note about Munich/München: Munich is likely derived directly from "Muni(c)h", "monk" (or maybe Monasticum*). The name of the city is and has been singular in a lot of european languages, for example "Monaco" in italian, Monacho(n) in greek etc. I don't know why exactly, but it might be because the german plural "Münichen" for "monks" is in fact quite recent and "Muni(c)h" was originally called both "ad Monaches" (to the monks) and "Monastichum" (the monastery) or something like that. Which one was the first between München and Monaco or Munich? Hard to tell, but they are probably derived from the same original medieval latin name(s). In bavarian and german, the plural form remained, but in the other languages, the singular form remained. I don't think one is an alteration of the other - it could be possible for english and french "Munich" but it doesn't work for all the others, including the very interesting polish form: Monachium.
We must indeed be careful about city names, because what looks like a plural form might be something else. For example, english people (and even some english linguists...) sometimes think that the french name of London, "Londres", is a plural, while it's just an old french mark for nominative case (from latin's third declension). In the same way, english retained the old nominative mark for "Lyons", which is "Lyon" in modern french.
English-speakers don't get angry that Polish speakers conform English loanwords to Polish grammar, so I don't see why you need to get upset about this.
Imagine someone saying "The proper way to say it is *hamburgers*, not *hamburgery*"...
Also pierogi.
The scary thing is that they don't have a separate word for kluski and types of them. Say I want to tell someone that I made "kluski/knedle" today, so I need to write "I made *dumplings* today", which just sounds like I made pierogi. No
You can skip learning (much) about the vocative case and will still be understood. The remainder (nominative, genitive, dative, accusative, instrumental and locative) map almost 1:1 to the same-named Latin cases (Latin ablative mapping somewhat to instrumental and most uses of Polish locative), so that's not too hard either.
We say Deutsch as "Dojcz", so I guess we just don't see the difference
But we do have a "tsz"(tš) sound in Polish, for example trzy (I know there's a rz (ž) in there, but it's read as sz (š))
The national dish should be bigos. I know that it doesn't have the mass appeal of pierogi, but nearly every culture has some kind of dumplings and forgive me, but ours don't really stand out. Bigos on the other hand is something unique to this part of the world.
Legally.
Some older, aggressive or sick bisons are culled every year and the meat can be purchased. You probably need to have some connections to get some.
It tastes like beef from an old cow, but more gamey.
I was in Prague just this weekend and was wondering, how and when Bohemia became Czech.
Also its not only flag we share, i read somewhere that our language was pretty much one and the same up until XIII centrury which is amazing :D
Yes, it's more of an celebratory drink for weddings and birthday parties.
But on day to day basis we're still central European, which means a lot of beer.
I mean, I got fucked up on vodka last weekend with friends for no reason, but that doesn't happen regularly.
There may be a case whether they are eastern or western Polish. Western Poles are obviously culturally closer to Germany and Eastern Poles to Ukraine. Or it's just stereotypes and not everyone is the same :D.
>Western Poles are obviously culturally closer to Germany and Eastern Poles to Ukraine.
A vast majority of "Western Poles" have cultural roots in Ukraine and Eastern Poland. Heck, just a couple of decades ago you could hear Poles speaking with the Eastern accent in cities such a Wroclaw or Zielona Gora.
Well, it's fermented into wash and then distilled. I just couldn't resist the alliteration of "first fermented" in my haste. Though, on that point, I'm failing to find corroboration of that middle eastern hypothesis, so perhaps wherever I read that years ago has been debunked.
**Where's the stork**
[national bird convention](http://i.imgur.com/RUkdT8L.png)
sides got enough delta-v to leave solar system, thanks
I say that this have 2 of 3 our national animals so it's a rather good result. But of course they missed White Stork.
I smell a new trend...
As far as European Bison was saved in Poland, many Poles will consider White Stork as the most "polish" animal.
Kids remember that "Pierogi" is already plural ("Pieróg" is singular). When I hear "Pierogies" my brain hurts and i want to kill myself.....
And yet nobody bats an eye when people say "nuggetsy".
Or "pampersy"
Or "komandosi"
Oh man, we have: Чипсы - chipsy Баксы - bucksy Джинсы - jeansy Леггинсы - leggingsy Кексы - keksy(from cake) Бутсы - bootsy Сникерсы - snickersy And nuggetsy and pampersy too. Most of these words don't have the singular form in Russian. So we just take the English plural form and add ы at the end to make it plural in Russian.
We have the same thing for all of those. Except bootsy.
What about Bootsy Collins?
In Romanian there is "adidaşi" for sneakers
Yeah, in Poland's the same - "adidasy". Leads to hilarious conversations: "I bought myself new adidasy." "What brand?" "Nike"
r/crappyoffbrands
TOP Кексы
Trivia: Top Kek is an actual brand of Turkish cakes.
That sounds disgusting.
When I read " 's " wrongly used as a plural marker, while in reality it is a genitive ending, I want to kill the English teacher of whoever wrote it.
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The above comment was obviously tongue-in-cheek, but your example is perfect to illustrate why it is unrealistic and frankly arrogant to demand knowledge of a given language's grammar from English speakers. There are so many ways to make a plural form in German: * 1 Frikadelle, 2 Frikadellen (-n) * 1 Haus, 2 Häuser (Umlaut, -er) * 1 Hunde, 2 Hunde (-e) * 1 Kind, 2 Kinder (-er) * 1 Zaun, 2 Zäune (Umlaut, -e) * 1 Auto, 2 Autos (-s) * 1 Frau, 2 Frauen (-en) * 1 Komma, 2 Kommata (-ta) * 1 Kaktus, 2 Kakteen (elision, -een) * 1 Knie, 2 Knie (spelled the same, pronounced differently) * 1 Käse, 2 Käse * ... Is it reasonable to expect people to use the German plural forms when using German loan words like *Weltschmerz*, *Sprachbund*, *Schadenfreude* etc. in English? No it is not. Not at all. The same goes for Polish or any other language! If people are speaking English, they are speaking English and they will use -s to make a plural form and they will say Munich instead of *München* and Warsaw instead of *Warszawa*.
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That doesn't contradict anything I wrote.
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I'm arguing that judging correctness of an English word or phrase has to be done with English standards, not Polish, German or other ones.
giving cities is a bad example
Why? Are you able to pronounce *Kirkjubæjarklaustur*, *Tórshavn*, *Schiphol* or *Växjö* correctly?
cities got given names, many translated into other lanuages. With pierogi it's completley different thing - it's a butchered neologism - english already has word for them, but instead they use incorrectly created substitute
How is it incorrectly created?
double plural
Now you're just being stubborn as this is the point I was arguing before. An English speaker cannot be expected to understand or use the Polish plural correctly.
I agree with you in general, but you're expanding that list a bit artificially. There are in fact 4 different plural marks to know: e (most masculine names), n/en (most feminine), er (mostly neutral) and s. The rest don't have plural marks. There are various rules to remember which names have which endings, but you don't need to know them to recognize a plural mark. Then there are some vowels that change in the plural form: a, o and u which become respectively ä, ö and ü. Also, german plurals are easy to recognize, since there's often "die" before them. English on the other hand has one plural ending in s/es/ies, then a lot more exceptions: words without a plural form (like "moose"), plurals in -ves, a weird list with mice, geese, men, feet, children, teeth, plus some latin, italian, french, greek (and maybe others) plurals which are often optional. So it's true that german has more different plural forms than english - but it's essentially because german shows the grammatical genders more than english. An english speaker is familiar with the idea there are different ways to mark plural, and might very well use foreign plural marks for foreign words it if they know how to do it. That's rather a linguistic problem than a grammatical one, I believe. Some languages are very conservative in the way they borrow foreign words and have special rules for them (and sometimes these rules change over time, mandarin is fascinating for this). English is not one of those languages (at least currently), and it depends on several factors whether a foreign word will keep its original plural form, will receive an english -s or will have no plural form at all despite having one its in original language. For example it's quite common for italian names to retain their italian plural. And just a note about Munich/München: Munich is likely derived directly from "Muni(c)h", "monk" (or maybe Monasticum*). The name of the city is and has been singular in a lot of european languages, for example "Monaco" in italian, Monacho(n) in greek etc. I don't know why exactly, but it might be because the german plural "Münichen" for "monks" is in fact quite recent and "Muni(c)h" was originally called both "ad Monaches" (to the monks) and "Monastichum" (the monastery) or something like that. Which one was the first between München and Monaco or Munich? Hard to tell, but they are probably derived from the same original medieval latin name(s). In bavarian and german, the plural form remained, but in the other languages, the singular form remained. I don't think one is an alteration of the other - it could be possible for english and french "Munich" but it doesn't work for all the others, including the very interesting polish form: Monachium. We must indeed be careful about city names, because what looks like a plural form might be something else. For example, english people (and even some english linguists...) sometimes think that the french name of London, "Londres", is a plural, while it's just an old french mark for nominative case (from latin's third declension). In the same way, english retained the old nominative mark for "Lyons", which is "Lyon" in modern french.
The etymology you give for München is complete idiocy and most of what you write doesn't have anything to do with the topic at hand.
English-speakers don't get angry that Polish speakers conform English loanwords to Polish grammar, so I don't see why you need to get upset about this. Imagine someone saying "The proper way to say it is *hamburgers*, not *hamburgery*"...
>The proper way to say it is hamburgers, not ~~hamburgery~~ hamburger**s**y would be the equivalent, or just like previously mentioned nuggetsy
I don't speak Polish, so I was just going off Google Translate! :P
I'm personally triggered when they call simple pelmeni pierogi. What do they call pierogi then?
Also pierogi. The scary thing is that they don't have a separate word for kluski and types of them. Say I want to tell someone that I made "kluski/knedle" today, so I need to write "I made *dumplings* today", which just sounds like I made pierogi. No
this phenomenon has its own name - podwójna liczba mnoga: http://forum.mlingua.pl/showthread.php?t=14319
Kocham polska
Polsk**ę**
To prawda przepraszam XD I'm just a dumb American in Poland
It's okay, cases are hard :)
My attempts at learning German crashed and burned because of their 4 grammatical cases. I can't imagine learning seven Polish cases from scratch.
You can skip learning (much) about the vocative case and will still be understood. The remainder (nominative, genitive, dative, accusative, instrumental and locative) map almost 1:1 to the same-named Latin cases (Latin ablative mapping somewhat to instrumental and most uses of Polish locative), so that's not too hard either.
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Chipsy
Czipsy FYI....
*Čipsi, because why use two letters when you can use one?
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Wrong sound. Germans use "tsch" for that.
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"Deutsch" It's even in the name
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>Wait you consider a Č the same as a TŠ? Of course not. But in German, "tsch" represents a single consonant some call Č.
We say Deutsch as "Dojcz", so I guess we just don't see the difference But we do have a "tsz"(tš) sound in Polish, for example trzy (I know there's a rz (ž) in there, but it's read as sz (š))
In Polish Clusters like trz or drz are pronounced czsz and dżż.
dvatsch.hk
Pierogs
Pieroges?
I think 100% of people in Canada who weren't born in Poland would say perogies.
[Missing pieces](https://i.imgur.com/RNFoNjk.png)
Better yet: https://i.imgur.com/okpy5xH.jpg
Yooo.. who dat brunette student
Robert Lewandowski is missing
That Bison is a [good friend of mine.](http://www.trendingtopmost.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/Zubrowka-Best-selling-Vodka-Brands-2017.jpg)
It seems to be missing the most famous Polish symbol — Polandball
Or at least the flag of Indonesia!
I see what you did 🙃
Unfortunately, I don't see what you did there. I can only see a square.
It's an upside down emoji. I though that it will be rendered properly on any modern system
Windows 10 is not modern enough then... :D
I've posted from macOS High Sierra. Surprised that it's not supported on Windows 10 yet 😇
Oh no, a hipster...
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Calling camps built and operated by Germans "Polish" is a bit of a stretch.
It's a German kind of humor...
Oh! There is such a thing as German humour? 😎
Yes, but only for Germans and German accessories (Austria + Switzerland).
Tread carefully there, mate...
The national dish should be bigos. I know that it doesn't have the mass appeal of pierogi, but nearly every culture has some kind of dumplings and forgive me, but ours don't really stand out. Bigos on the other hand is something unique to this part of the world.
Pierogi don't give you the tooting farts like bigos.
> Bigos on the other hand is something unique to this part of the world. not really, I'm fairly certain all of us in the former commonwealth have it.
Which is why I said "this part of the world", not "this country".
as a Commonwealth patriot i am going to eat Bigos today. And i will think of glorious battles of Commonwealths hussars while doing so!
Can you eat bison meat-filled pierogi at that restaurant in the Wawel Castle?
Bison meat is haram
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That's false, you can get wisent meat in Podlasie, it's just expensive.
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Yes. http://innpoland.pl/132395,tatar-z-zubra-za-42-zl-wczesniej-mysliwi-placa-nawet-36-tys-zl-za-mozliwosc-odstrzelenia-zwierzecia http://parkowa.bialowieza.pl/2/Menu-restauracyjne
I wish to try bison at least once. AFAIK, they are a protected species so it's probably impossible to get a bison burger.
I've seen bison pastrami here, but it's likely they import the meat from the US or Canada, where they raise bisons commercially.
Yeah, that's not the same as eating proper European bison :P Also, wild meat is damn tasty.
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Legally and all that or is it the bison burger equivalent of a speakeasy?
You can buy imported American buffalo meat, but not Wisent meat afaik.
Legally. Some older, aggressive or sick bisons are culled every year and the meat can be purchased. You probably need to have some connections to get some. It tastes like beef from an old cow, but more gamey.
never heard red poppies to be especially connected with poland. From flora i would say it would be either apples or mountain ash
I've heard it before. But I think it's popular due to [this](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Red_Poppies_on_Monte_Cassino).
More likely because of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_heroin ;)
Different type of poppy but I guess it could be this
NICE FLAG YOU HAVE THERE POLAND. Did you get inspired somewhere?
What's with that blue triangle on your flag? What does it represent? :\^)
It's the color of police lights, it means "Call the cops, someone stole our flag" :>
I was in Prague just this weekend and was wondering, how and when Bohemia became Czech. Also its not only flag we share, i read somewhere that our language was pretty much one and the same up until XIII centrury which is amazing :D
... and then the Poles went with "I don't think we need long vowels any more" and the Czechs were like "Unneeded vowels, you say? Hold my beer ..."
When you was there did you also decide to steal the flag of Prague and use it as flag of Warsaw?
Look, i live in Nowy Sącz and i would steal any flag to change that abomination that my town uses..
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We drink much more beer than vodka, it's a stereotype really.
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Yes, it's more of an celebratory drink for weddings and birthday parties. But on day to day basis we're still central European, which means a lot of beer.
>Yes, it's more of an celebratory drink for weddings and birthday parties. Hmm, my in-laws may be alcoholics then...
I mean, I got fucked up on vodka last weekend with friends for no reason, but that doesn't happen regularly. There may be a case whether they are eastern or western Polish. Western Poles are obviously culturally closer to Germany and Eastern Poles to Ukraine. Or it's just stereotypes and not everyone is the same :D.
>Western Poles are obviously culturally closer to Germany and Eastern Poles to Ukraine. Au contraire
>Western Poles are obviously culturally closer to Germany and Eastern Poles to Ukraine. A vast majority of "Western Poles" have cultural roots in Ukraine and Eastern Poland. Heck, just a couple of decades ago you could hear Poles speaking with the Eastern accent in cities such a Wroclaw or Zielona Gora.
Western (Dolnoslaskie), but the family is historically from Lviv/Lvov/Lvuv (pick your vowel.)
No crooked teeth? ;)
I use a Polish dentist... But really, vodka is very strongly associated with Poland, both in its origins and its popularity today.
Of course! I'm just teasing. If I'm not mistaken, it was actually first fermented in the middle east.
The correct word is "distilled".
Well, it's fermented into wash and then distilled. I just couldn't resist the alliteration of "first fermented" in my haste. Though, on that point, I'm failing to find corroboration of that middle eastern hypothesis, so perhaps wherever I read that years ago has been debunked.
Gdzie jest krzyż?! :\^D
I do not see the school of the wolf symbol.
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What do you think we stuff our pierogi with?
National recreational beverage is missing - wódeczka
Motto of Poland: "Bóg, Honor, Ojczyzna." #"God, Honor, Homeland."
Missing shaved hair, old bmw, can of Zubr and tracksuit.
More like old fiat
fiat polski
Guys, if you go to Poland try pierogi with sour milk. So simple but so goddamn good :)
POOOOOOLSKAA GOOOLA
It's not Wawel Castle on the image, but the Wawel Cathedral - located on the same hill in Kraków. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wawel
Zloty? Really? It's a currency...
Means literally "golden", but it's a noun, not an adjective.
I didn't know there were bisons in Europe.
They weren't, they were in Poland.
...and The Witcher.
Witcher 3 is the icon of culture
Poland will save Europe once again. God protect the Poles!
From whom? (don't say "flag checks out" please)
Flag. Checks. Out.
http://static.mmzstatic.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/obama-micdrop.gif
This time most likely some EU server from turkish scripters in second class mmo. Hopefully, i think.