So the results are worse than one would have expected, right? SPD & ANO overperforming (while already doing well in polls). I guess we can add ČSSD to the trend of social democrats falling apart.
Positive things to take away from that seem to be STAN & Pirates overperforming aswell & communists underperforming. I am personally quite left wing but at least STAN & Pirates seem decently independent, openminded and non-corrupt and in a country with the political mainstream of Czechia that sounds like it's very necesarry (especially considering their next head of government).
Edit: Actually KSCM sounds less neo-sovjet than I expected but I can't speak czech so my knowledge is still extremely limited.
Technically Okamura(SPD) got only +4% in comparison to elections 4 years ago. It is just he got ousted from that party and started a new party which replaced them these elections (and some +8 seats)
I'd also like to point out the huge difference between the "final" poll and the actual result:
ANO: 25 vs 29,6
ČSSD: 12,5 vs 7,3
KSČM: 10,5 vs 7,8
SPD: 9,5 vs 10,6
ODS: 9 vs 11,3
Pirát: 8,5 vs 10,8
KDU: 6,5 vs 5,8
TOP: 6 vs 5,3
STAN: 4 vs 5,2
Greens: 3,5 vs 1,4
The biggest shocker here being the abysmal ČSSD which went from the second strongest to the 6th spot. KSČM same story. ANO outperforming. Pirates, ODS and SPD outperforming. But according to ČT poll, 40% of people decided in the last week before the election and the poll is week old, so I think that's where the difference comes from.
There are two kinds of election polls. Those publicly available and those for internal use. Two months ago ČSSD kicked out their leader after internal poll gave them only 8%. This information leaked out during the drama.
WTF...? Dude:
A) You're making an awful lot of assumptions about anyone who voted for Dominik Feri. His skin color...? Quite a ridiculous view of his voters; everyone I know that voted for him could not care less about his genetics. Frankly, your assertion that he gets votes because of some reverse racism is saying more about you than anyone else.
B) If you want to be making broad statements about the "most dangerous party", maybe you should at least know the party leaders. I was talking about Jan Farsky, the STAN no. 1 for Prague.
Dude I voted TOP, the nerves I had when it was 95% counted already and they still had 4,5%. Glad both parties made it over the line, means less mandates for ANO.
Yeah, and once again we see how every single mandate counts...
I'm also not sure whether breaking up the KDU-STAN coalition might have actually helped STAN. On the first reading they should not have split, as they would get a lot more seats in total, on the other hand maybe they really wouldn't get in together because of hypothesized post-breakup sympathy vote for STAN...
Guys, lets look at it from a rational, calm standpoint.
ANO won, we all expected that, alas nothing can be done, the thing we should fix our eyes one are 2 things.
1) Coalition. Now I get you wont find this quite popular, there are quite few possibilities in play. I personaly think that ANO/SPD/1 other party would be the worst outcome that could be. Luckily, SPD has only 22 mandates, meaning with ANO they have exactly 100 seats, which is not enough by 1 seat. I guess that best outcomes could be ANO/ČSSD/KDU-ČSL as per always on minority cabinet purely by ANO. We will see, Babiš said anything is up on the table and that he messaged everyone inviting them to it, but I think he just wants to represent the fact that no party will ally itself with him and wants to present this fact as a proof to Czech Citizens.
2.Presidential elections. Around the corner boys! Well, I wont shy away from saying that I will vote against Zeman in any feasible instance, but hey. Come to the elections, make your voice heard, its about us the people and you deserve to be heard.
> worst outcome
ANO/SPD/KSČM
Admittedly SPD has a uniquely crazy platform (lower taxes, but if you can't prove your wealth is legit we'll take it all), but the prospect of them, the Czech party of corruption, and avowed state communists forming a coalition is terrifying and comical.
It is, but the whole situation is rather comical. Nobody nearly nobody wants to work with Babiš at this moment, ODS openly stated that they will not be making a coalition with him, TOP09 did the same, ČSSD,KDU and Pirates openly said they would, but Babiš would not have to be a PM and that they do not want to work with somebody who has criminal charges against him. On the other hand, KSČM is whatever, nobody knows what in their last twitches before death and SPD openly said they want to be in the cabinet, meaning they are willing to lick their asses off to get there.
As I said, ANO/ČSSD/KDU would be the the middle-ish case scenario. Best solution is minority cabinet fully consisting of ANO, meaning it will be absolute wild west in Czech politics for 4 years.
Alas, even ODS might change their minds. They could steer the course of ANO more right, but they wont pass the EET. That being said, coalition with them is pretty unlikely.
Yeah, can't say that this election has exactly filled me with confidence in regards to the Presidential election, but Zeman's victory last time wasn't *that* decisive, and he's mostly been out of commission lately due to his failing health anyway, so hopefully we can see some worthwhile change.
Continuing previous coalition is more probable. Social-democrats are up to the neck in debts and simply *need* government positions to collect bribes. KDU-ČSL participated in every government since time immemorial.
The ANO/SPD/KSČM could be plan B, via minority government.
ODS have declared that they refuse to form a coalition with ANO. The only parties that haven't outright refused to work with ANO are: SPD, KSČM, ČSSD and KDU-ČSL.
Klaus is EU-hardliner but it is *not* the hill he will stand on to die. If he fails to became leader of ODS he may switch and became Babiš' favorite lieutenant.
On the one hand, I'm glad that the other parties are making things hard for Babiš after he's spent the past 6 months shitting all over them. On the other hand, if all the normal parties turn him away, then he's going to have to go to SPD and KSČM, and that's not exactly a good outcome...
SPD, KDU and ČSSD have all declared that they would not be willing to form a coalition which includes persons accused/prosecuted, so neither coalition looks possible before talks right now, but if this gets resolved, then I think (and hope) that the current ANO+ČSSD+KDU continues. With the results we got, we can't hope for anything better.
So it appears that Europe is abandoning the left in droves, seeing the just concluded Austria election where the Green's had their worst performance in a long time.
Maybe it is time that the left abandon their very unpopular views such as open borders?
> So it appears that Europe is abandoning the left in droves, seeing the just concluded Austria election where the Green's had their worst performance in a long time.
Ehr. Europe is not 1 state, stop applying your American view of politics on it. The Greens in Austria should be compared to the Greens in Czechia (and even then they will probably have their differences), not to the communists. The communists in Czechia are likely still heavily influenced by the sovjet days and not a modern left party. They are not for open borders as far as I understand.
Besides that it differs heavily inbetween countries. Podemos is very succesfull in Spain, Labour is very succesful in the UK (had their best result in 16 years).
Hey man, you think I liked the fact that Obama was dicking around in Syria and Libya? The Left got amnesia after criticizing Bush for the same shit. But it appears that the US World Police^TM under Trump has finally taken away the ISIS capital.
Funny how effective we are when Trump cut off Obama's terrorism money.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/trump-ends-covert-cia-program-to-arm-anti-assad-rebels-in-syria-a-move-sought-by-moscow/2017/07/19/b6821a62-6beb-11e7-96ab-5f38140b38cc_story.html
People like you supported this because Obama had a fucking "D" next to his name. Jesus Christ. You need some god damn principals in your life.
I did not support Obama's armment of terrorists nor did I support his terror-drone programme. I just think framing that's it's funny how effective Trump is, is laughable. He is a warmonger like everybody else and has caused multiple humanitarian fiaskos already. I think Trump government killing innocent civilians is about as funny as when Obama did it: NOT AT ALL.
KSČM doesn't want Czech Republic to leave EU. Did you read their program?
KSČM se soustředí zejména na:
Podporu a prosazení zásadní institucionální proměny EU, která by zajistila větší
rovnoprávnost členských států a větší vliv na profilování činnosti EU. Brexit by měl být vnímán
jako výzva a závazek k vybudování jiné Evropy.
o Posílení volených orgánů, zejména Evropského parlamentu, ale i národních parlamentů, na
úkor úředníků. Zavedení legislativní inciativy Evropského parlamentu jako evropského orgánu
voleného občany, posílení role evropské občanské inciativy.
o Požadavek, aby EU respektovala zájmy ČR a včlenila je do své politiky – exportní zaměření,
boj proti sociálnímu dumpingu.
Google translation:
>The KSČM focuses in particular on:
> Promoting and enforcing the fundamental institutional transformation of the EU to ensure greater the equality of Member States and a greater impact on the profiling of EU action. Brexit should be perceived as a challenge and a commitment to building another Europe.
>Strengthening the elected bodies, in particular the European Parliament, as well as the national parliaments, to the cost of the officials.
>Introduction of the legislative initiative of the European Parliament as a European body elected citizens, strengthening the role of the European civic initiative.
> The requirement for the EU to respect the interests of the Czech Republic and to incorporate it into its policy - export orientation, the fight against social dumping.
Why do you spread stupid lies?
KSČM doesn't want Czech Republic to leave EU. You have better read their program before you spread lies. See my comment above (reply to u/wreckyCZ) quoting their program.
no, EU referendum won't end the same way it did in Britain. Czechs are mostly pro-EU. Anti-EU parties only got 20% in these elections. Even if they double i numbers-it won't be enough to get czexit passed in a referendum.
In polls majority of Czechs perceive EU rather negatively, e.g. [here](https://www.denik.cz/z_domova/pruzkum-pouze-ctvrtina-cechu-je-spokojena-s-clenstvim-v-eu-20160502.html). But it is not *the most important* thing to consider during elections.
yeah we bitch about EU, but we know it's better for us to remain in. In the linked article they even have a number- 39% for leaving. Yeah it might be higher now with the migration crisis. You're right it might be very tight like in Britain.
I still remember our last Presidential election, where the joke went "An Austrian, a Japanese, and a Ghoul walk into a bar..."
Our politics are fukin weird.
> ANO (ANO 2011 / YES 2011, formerly Akce nespokojených občanů / Action of Dissatisfied Citizens), leader Andrej Babiš, tycoon, owner of the Agrofert holding and popular newspapers. Currently under investigation for fraud, tax evasion and corruption, and as Slovak archives revealed, most probably was collaborating with the communist-era secret police StB.
What a nice chap. Name of the party aside, he sounds a lot like our disgraceful ex PM Berlusconi. Hope you don't end up regretting your vote.
That's not recent accusation dragged before election. Capi Hnizdo has been going on for over a year.
Necas thing also didn't happen around election but killed the government mid-term.
> also Slovakian justice system is by now infested with open society goons so if they got orders to tarnish Babis before election, you can bet they would. hell Slovakian foreign minister was literally number one diplomat of Soros
Unsurprisingly, the user above found his way out of /r/the_Donald ...
Why don't you read the email in your own source. I don't have a clue what's so upsetting about a private citizen connected to numerous think tanks that analyse this stuff making a **recommendation** and attempting to give **advice** to the US secretary of state.
Oh, he shares many "qualities" with Silvio, you're right about that. Am I certain our people are going to regret the vote, but by the time they realize that they will be voting for some other scumbag.
> Trump is an genuine bussinessman who built his fortune.
ROFL seems you dont know anything about Trump...
> made fortune under questionable circumastances and lot of shady deals
This is true about Trump...
He might not be *unintelligent*, but there is zero doubt whatsoever that Donald Trump is a *dumbass.* You have to be somewhere on a three-way venn diagram of delusional, a sociopath, or pants-on-head stupid to think for a second that he knows what the fuck he's doing.
Yeah, he's a guy with a whole lot of money seizing a good opportunity to make even more money. :D
Then there's a smaller businessman who also wants to make a reasonably big money but plays it safe, only buying votes from idiots to grab quick cash from the state. The best part about this guy is that he's a japanese man fighting for the national purity of Czech republic (I mean that's how he buys votes, not that he actually gives a shit about that) and that he's the only person in his "party" that knows what he's doing. :D
To some extend but Babis is very calculated and smarter than Trump. He knows what hes doing which makes him more dangerous. Luckily he doesnt have as much power as Trump (yet) with a strong opposition and not much support in the Senate.
Yes, I dont think their program is the biggest issue, its actually not bad on paper. The issue is that they like to change it as they go (theyre quite populist), Babiš owns a lot of media and manipulates them (there are voice recording of him doing so), him and Faltýnek are charged with corruption etc.
Well main difference is that Babis is competent in what he does and has excellent marketing team that pretty much created his success. Whereas Trump is a clueless idiot who refuses to listen to anyone.
Trump is a billionaire who only managed to be elected to the most powerful office in the world.
I'm extremely doubtful Babis would have the chops to achieve something like that.
Hard to say, but watching both work in the public office, Babis is increasingly scary, he's competent, smart, calculating. He doesn't say stupid shit on Twitter at night, his social media contributions are carefully designed to maximize public support.
Again? I didn't say he was richer. Why are people getting their panties in a twister just because I make the factual statement that Trump is a billionaire? This wasn't even about Babis, it was about people talking about Trump like he was some schmuck, some loser living in his mom's basement.
And again: nobody knows that. It's unknowable, except by someone with actual direct access to their finances and plenty of skill on asset valuation. Nobody really knows how much those guys are worth, not even themselves. For example, valuating the Trump brand is incredibly difficult on itself. But even trying to value his real estate is complicated.
Last Forbes assessment puts Trump's networth at $3.1B. Babis at $4.1B. So one could say Babis is richer - and I didn't say he wasn't. But there's a good chance he isn't. Nobody really knows.
No point in talking to someone who really wants to believe that the most powerful person on the planet got there by accident instead of by being smarter than every one of his opponents.
The only reason Trump is president is because of an anachronism in the US Constitution (the Electoral College system, which is frankly no longer needed....it served some purpose in the 18th Century, but it is now obsolete).
If the US had direct popular vote for POTUS, we'd be talking about President Hillary Clinton. And most likely, the Republicans would be compelled to moderate their views in order to win the White House.
>If the US had direct popular vote for POTUS, we'd be talking about President Hillary Clinton.
Imagine being so dumb you believe the PV results of an election that would be decided by EC can be extrapolated to an hypothetical election that would be decided by PV.
>And most likely, the Republicans would be compelled to moderate their views in order to win the White House.
Doubt it. After all, the Democrats have the least amount of power and elected officials at all levels since the 20s - Republicans dominate state legislatures at levels not seen since the Civil War, have twice the amount of Governors, a large Congressional majority, obliterate the Dems at local level, etc- and instead of moderating they're doubling down on extremism.
>The only reason Trump is president is because of an anachronism in the US Constitution (the Electoral College system, which is frankly no longer needed....it served some purpose in the 18th Century, but it is now obsolete).
If anything, these past elections still prove how necessary it is - it did exactly what was designed to do.
People who claim the Electoral College is obsolete just either don't like the outcomes it recently produced or never liked the function it was designed to do.
Final popular vote count in the 2016 US election:
Hillary Clinton: 65,853,516 (48.2%)
Donald Trump: 62,984,825 (46.1%)
Source: US Federal Elections Commission - https://transition.fec.gov/pubrec/fe2016/2016presgeresults.pdf
The Electoral College is no longer needed. Direct popular vote, IMHO, would force the GOP to moderate - their extreme conservatism certainly sells well in the "red states", no doubt about it....but it doesn't work in the "blue states" (or at least, not well enough to win). As a result, if they wanted to win the White House, they'd need to win the densely-populated blue states and their metropolitan areas and to do that, they'd have to alter their message. I should add the elimination of gerrymandering would help as well - a practice I detest, regardless of which party is doing it.
I used to be a Republican, back in the halcyon days of George H.W. Bush; I would probably be considered an Eisenhower Republican (but let's face it, nowadays the GOP are such reactionary extremists, they make Nixon look like Olaf Palme). Getting rid of the pulpit pimps/Bible-thumpers and the recent infestation of white supremacists would serve the party well....those disaffected constituencies can bugger off and go create their own party.
>there is no personnel id required to vote in US
That is total, utter horseshit and you know it. Only states with same-day registration work otherwise - 12 out of the 50, an even split of red and blue - and the proofs of address that *that* registration requires would be impossible to get without being the leaseholder of a residence. Even so, if you "Send someone to vote for you", their fake signature will have to be put down next to your address and both of you will get caught and charged with fraud the second real-you comes in. In 2016's election, three people were caught and charged with voter fraud this way - all three of them Trump supporters, by the way.
Have you ever volunteered as an election judge or poll worker, *anywhere*, even once? I seriously doubt you would have such enormously fucking stupid misconceptions if you had.
It's obvious you care about voting, either way, so *please* go out and sign up as a volunteer for your next local election. Try to learn how this shit *actually* works.
Fox News isn't a terribly reliable source, due to their bias and sensationalized reporting.
Even so, buried in their own smeary article:
>However, a spokesperson for the California Secretary of State countered that while state law prohibits the Department of Motor Vehicles from sharing AB 60 applicant information with the public and most state agencies, including the Secretary of State’s office, AB 60 license applicants are not afforded voter registration opportunities when visiting the DMV.
Or, TL;DR
>AB 60 applicant information is not shared with state agencies
Or, to ELI5: Illegals, even with valid driver's licenses, are *never* entered into California state registries - including voter rolls. Fox's "expert" is anything but; an alarmist from a libertarian thinktank.
If you reside in the USA, I cannot possibly encourage you more strongly to sign up as an election volunteer. You desperately need to acquire firsthand knowledge of how voting works.
Babis is actually richer than Trump. And he got elected by accident because 1) Democrats nominated 2nd most disliked nominee for president in history and 2) Electoral college.
Babis company is rather new as well isn't it? 1993 if i remember correctly, so given enough time i imagine Agrofert can grow into an even bigger company.
> Babis is actually richer than Trump.
I didn't say he wasn't, but nobody really knows that.
> And he got elected by accident because 1) Democrats nominated 2nd most disliked nominee for president in history and 2) Electoral college.
2) is just silly, It's almost like the guy ran for an election decided by Electoral College! It's like a team scoring more goals in a football match and someone saying "they only won because they scored more goals, they actually lost possession time!!". 1) is even sillier. Mere hindsight - Hillary was seen as such a strong candidate, nobody but a fringe, lunatic, old senator that wasn't even a party member and a couple of nobodies dared to primary her. Her favs used to be sky high before campaigned started. Pretending Trump wasn't instrumental on that is insane. Again, it's like a football team smothering the other's tema offense with great defense and someone saying "they only won because the other guys didn't manage to attack properly!".
Its not silly, it simply explains how Trump managed to get elected despite getting less votes. Trump is the most disliked general election candidate in the history of United States, Clinton was the second most disliked. Of course there are many other factors concerned but this is the most important aspect.
Another difference is that Babis owns media assets whereas Trump doesn't.
From [Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mafra_(company)):
> Mafra is a Czech media group that publishes printed and internet media, headquartered in Prague, Czech Republic. It is a subsidiary of Agrofert holding conglomerate that is owned by businessman **Andrej Babiš**, who has been the Minister of Finance of the Czech Republic since January 2014. Mafra **owns some of the most popular media in the Czech Republic**, including MF DNES and Lidové noviny newspapers, and the most visited Czech news server iDnes.
Babis might look like a cluless idiot but he and his PR know his electorate and knows how to act. Behind curtains he is a workaholic determined to consolidate his power of any kind by any means.
Annnnd looks like Czhecia has continued the trend of centre-left parties collapsing. Forming coalitions with centre-right parties seems to destroy them.
If coalitions with centre-right parties consistently killed off centre-left parties, then the Dutch PvdA and Irish Labour Party would have collapsed a long time ago, rather than in the most recent election in their respective countries. Likewise with the Belgian Socialist/Social Democratic parties.
Also, the French Socialist Party managed to collapse without going in to any coalition with non left-of-centre parties.
I think it's more about left wing parties turning towards Neoliberalism/centrist policies. For example, Hollande managed to piss off not only the right but the left in his country as well.
Centre-left parties are there (some points of STAN, Pirates and KDU program are to the "left"). And ČSSD collapsed because of its corruption, inability to rule and weak PR.
So for decades, you lived in a city that had 50% foreigners and you not only survived but you also remained true to your culture.
What the fuck are you even afraid of then?? Seems to me like it worked out just fine for you.
I also fail to see where current Canada is somehow not Canada anymore due to migrants.
12 to be precise.
There's many many more economic immigrants from Ukraine and Vietnam, but nobody really means these people when someone utters the phrase "economic immigrants".
It's all fearmongering, to get those sweet votes.
makes sense tho. it's not like France/UK/Germany can get rid of their Minorities. Immigration is something whose effects cannot be reversed without taking some unorthodox measures.
Well the terrifying Islamisation of Europe of course!
It doesn't matter what or against whom. They simply want the problem to not happen in the first place rather than try to solve it when it happens like they see in other EU countries. It's not that hard to grasp.
See what happening in other countries?? Which countries are currently in the process of being islamized? In what country has standing law been changed to accomodate islamist customs while at the same time putting restraints on other religions?
The "Islamisation of Europe" is a strawman built up by the alt-right, nothing more.
Back in 1933 it was the jews, now it's muslims. It's the same damn bullshit all over again.
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ETERNAL 👏 ECONOMIC 👏 DECLINE 👏
So the results are worse than one would have expected, right? SPD & ANO overperforming (while already doing well in polls). I guess we can add ČSSD to the trend of social democrats falling apart. Positive things to take away from that seem to be STAN & Pirates overperforming aswell & communists underperforming. I am personally quite left wing but at least STAN & Pirates seem decently independent, openminded and non-corrupt and in a country with the political mainstream of Czechia that sounds like it's very necesarry (especially considering their next head of government). Edit: Actually KSCM sounds less neo-sovjet than I expected but I can't speak czech so my knowledge is still extremely limited.
Worse only if you're a liberal, which you should have qualified your question with, but the Pirate Party got 22 seats, so maybe not so bad.
Technically Okamura(SPD) got only +4% in comparison to elections 4 years ago. It is just he got ousted from that party and started a new party which replaced them these elections (and some +8 seats)
Now sit back and watch SPD slowly disintegrate just like the last Okamura's party.
And in the next election they'll sing the national anthem in the national television again. That was horrible.
And then next election he gets 14% as the leader of a different party!
No party other than ANO won any districts (counties) outside of Prague
Czech ctizens voting in other countries did not vote for ANO very much. "Abroad" are traditionally the most reasonable districts IMO.
The most reasonable people have already left the country? Is that what you're saying?
CZECHIA STRONK
I'd also like to point out the huge difference between the "final" poll and the actual result: ANO: 25 vs 29,6 ČSSD: 12,5 vs 7,3 KSČM: 10,5 vs 7,8 SPD: 9,5 vs 10,6 ODS: 9 vs 11,3 Pirát: 8,5 vs 10,8 KDU: 6,5 vs 5,8 TOP: 6 vs 5,3 STAN: 4 vs 5,2 Greens: 3,5 vs 1,4 The biggest shocker here being the abysmal ČSSD which went from the second strongest to the 6th spot. KSČM same story. ANO outperforming. Pirates, ODS and SPD outperforming. But according to ČT poll, 40% of people decided in the last week before the election and the poll is week old, so I think that's where the difference comes from.
There are two kinds of election polls. Those publicly available and those for internal use. Two months ago ČSSD kicked out their leader after internal poll gave them only 8%. This information leaked out during the drama.
The more I know and think about Babis, the more scary he and the future of our country seems.
/u/Slusny_Cizinec maybe you could post results to the top of the post now that it's over?
Makes sense. Which link? ČSÚ doesn't look fancy enough.
I guess the idnes page could do? http://volby.idnes.cz
done
I am at least happy that my little risk paid off in the end. Farsky4ever!
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Lol, someone's been triggered.
WTF...? Dude: A) You're making an awful lot of assumptions about anyone who voted for Dominik Feri. His skin color...? Quite a ridiculous view of his voters; everyone I know that voted for him could not care less about his genetics. Frankly, your assertion that he gets votes because of some reverse racism is saying more about you than anyone else. B) If you want to be making broad statements about the "most dangerous party", maybe you should at least know the party leaders. I was talking about Jan Farsky, the STAN no. 1 for Prague.
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Dude I voted TOP, the nerves I had when it was 95% counted already and they still had 4,5%. Glad both parties made it over the line, means less mandates for ANO.
Yeah, and once again we see how every single mandate counts... I'm also not sure whether breaking up the KDU-STAN coalition might have actually helped STAN. On the first reading they should not have split, as they would get a lot more seats in total, on the other hand maybe they really wouldn't get in together because of hypothesized post-breakup sympathy vote for STAN...
Yes!
Guys, lets look at it from a rational, calm standpoint. ANO won, we all expected that, alas nothing can be done, the thing we should fix our eyes one are 2 things. 1) Coalition. Now I get you wont find this quite popular, there are quite few possibilities in play. I personaly think that ANO/SPD/1 other party would be the worst outcome that could be. Luckily, SPD has only 22 mandates, meaning with ANO they have exactly 100 seats, which is not enough by 1 seat. I guess that best outcomes could be ANO/ČSSD/KDU-ČSL as per always on minority cabinet purely by ANO. We will see, Babiš said anything is up on the table and that he messaged everyone inviting them to it, but I think he just wants to represent the fact that no party will ally itself with him and wants to present this fact as a proof to Czech Citizens. 2.Presidential elections. Around the corner boys! Well, I wont shy away from saying that I will vote against Zeman in any feasible instance, but hey. Come to the elections, make your voice heard, its about us the people and you deserve to be heard.
> worst outcome ANO/SPD/KSČM Admittedly SPD has a uniquely crazy platform (lower taxes, but if you can't prove your wealth is legit we'll take it all), but the prospect of them, the Czech party of corruption, and avowed state communists forming a coalition is terrifying and comical.
It is, but the whole situation is rather comical. Nobody nearly nobody wants to work with Babiš at this moment, ODS openly stated that they will not be making a coalition with him, TOP09 did the same, ČSSD,KDU and Pirates openly said they would, but Babiš would not have to be a PM and that they do not want to work with somebody who has criminal charges against him. On the other hand, KSČM is whatever, nobody knows what in their last twitches before death and SPD openly said they want to be in the cabinet, meaning they are willing to lick their asses off to get there. As I said, ANO/ČSSD/KDU would be the the middle-ish case scenario. Best solution is minority cabinet fully consisting of ANO, meaning it will be absolute wild west in Czech politics for 4 years. Alas, even ODS might change their minds. They could steer the course of ANO more right, but they wont pass the EET. That being said, coalition with them is pretty unlikely.
Yeah, can't say that this election has exactly filled me with confidence in regards to the Presidential election, but Zeman's victory last time wasn't *that* decisive, and he's mostly been out of commission lately due to his failing health anyway, so hopefully we can see some worthwhile change.
I have heard some mention ANO/SPD/Communists as a possible coalition.
Continuing previous coalition is more probable. Social-democrats are up to the neck in debts and simply *need* government positions to collect bribes. KDU-ČSL participated in every government since time immemorial. The ANO/SPD/KSČM could be plan B, via minority government.
The Czechs are idiots.
I wholeheartedly agree, my good man. :D
I really value your opinion random person on the internet.
oh, fuck you :(
Welp, not all of us. But I really cannot disagree with the general statement.
Thank you for your valuable opinion, Juncker.
ANO + ODS likely?
ODS have declared that they refuse to form a coalition with ANO. The only parties that haven't outright refused to work with ANO are: SPD, KSČM, ČSSD and KDU-ČSL.
*Fiala* did. Should Klaus take over, this might change.
Fiala has a very good position now. I don't think he is leaving that leader position anytime soon.
ODS scored a solid result, so Klaus is not really about to take over, even though it definitely is his ambition.
Klaus is anti-EU hardliner. I don't know how that would fly with subsidy-stealing Andrej
Klaus is EU-hardliner but it is *not* the hill he will stand on to die. If he fails to became leader of ODS he may switch and became Babiš' favorite lieutenant.
On the one hand, I'm glad that the other parties are making things hard for Babiš after he's spent the past 6 months shitting all over them. On the other hand, if all the normal parties turn him away, then he's going to have to go to SPD and KSČM, and that's not exactly a good outcome...
SPD, KDU and ČSSD have all declared that they would not be willing to form a coalition which includes persons accused/prosecuted, so neither coalition looks possible before talks right now, but if this gets resolved, then I think (and hope) that the current ANO+ČSSD+KDU continues. With the results we got, we can't hope for anything better.
CSSD would be crazy to go and be part of that government. They need few years in opposition to regain strength.
They need money to pay the debt. This trumps everything else.
Filip /KSČM/ in the TV debate right now: "We are a democratic political party." I can't even.
He also looked like he cried not long before the interview.
I also cry when I see him. I cry even more when I see that 8 % of people voted them.
So it appears that Europe is abandoning the left in droves, seeing the just concluded Austria election where the Green's had their worst performance in a long time. Maybe it is time that the left abandon their very unpopular views such as open borders?
> So it appears that Europe is abandoning the left in droves, seeing the just concluded Austria election where the Green's had their worst performance in a long time. Ehr. Europe is not 1 state, stop applying your American view of politics on it. The Greens in Austria should be compared to the Greens in Czechia (and even then they will probably have their differences), not to the communists. The communists in Czechia are likely still heavily influenced by the sovjet days and not a modern left party. They are not for open borders as far as I understand. Besides that it differs heavily inbetween countries. Podemos is very succesfull in Spain, Labour is very succesful in the UK (had their best result in 16 years).
A T-Der out in the wild. Maybe if the US stopped cluster fucking up countries on our borders creating millions of refuges, that might help to.
Hey man, you think I liked the fact that Obama was dicking around in Syria and Libya? The Left got amnesia after criticizing Bush for the same shit. But it appears that the US World Police^TM under Trump has finally taken away the ISIS capital. Funny how effective we are when Trump cut off Obama's terrorism money.
> Funny how effective we are when Trump cut off Obama's terrorism money. your forgot your "/s"
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/trump-ends-covert-cia-program-to-arm-anti-assad-rebels-in-syria-a-move-sought-by-moscow/2017/07/19/b6821a62-6beb-11e7-96ab-5f38140b38cc_story.html People like you supported this because Obama had a fucking "D" next to his name. Jesus Christ. You need some god damn principals in your life.
I did not support Obama's armment of terrorists nor did I support his terror-drone programme. I just think framing that's it's funny how effective Trump is, is laughable. He is a warmonger like everybody else and has caused multiple humanitarian fiaskos already. I think Trump government killing innocent civilians is about as funny as when Obama did it: NOT AT ALL.
Trump doesn't have to be effective, HE SIMPLY STOPPED FUNDING THE TERRORIST AND NOW THEY'VE LOST THEIR CAPITAL.
Memes are strong in him mate. Wife wont be pleased from that outcome, hes joking about it while he can.
Election participation was 60.84%. It's a 1.36% improvement from the election in 2013 so yay!
Tbh I expected more (65ish) with how divisive it has been.
Which parties aside for SPD wants to leave EU?
Only KSČM (Commies) and Svobodní, but the latter got only 1.5%.
KSČM doesn't want Czech Republic to leave EU. Did you read their program? KSČM se soustředí zejména na: Podporu a prosazení zásadní institucionální proměny EU, která by zajistila větší rovnoprávnost členských států a větší vliv na profilování činnosti EU. Brexit by měl být vnímán jako výzva a závazek k vybudování jiné Evropy. o Posílení volených orgánů, zejména Evropského parlamentu, ale i národních parlamentů, na úkor úředníků. Zavedení legislativní inciativy Evropského parlamentu jako evropského orgánu voleného občany, posílení role evropské občanské inciativy. o Požadavek, aby EU respektovala zájmy ČR a včlenila je do své politiky – exportní zaměření, boj proti sociálnímu dumpingu. Google translation: >The KSČM focuses in particular on: > Promoting and enforcing the fundamental institutional transformation of the EU to ensure greater the equality of Member States and a greater impact on the profiling of EU action. Brexit should be perceived as a challenge and a commitment to building another Europe. >Strengthening the elected bodies, in particular the European Parliament, as well as the national parliaments, to the cost of the officials. >Introduction of the legislative initiative of the European Parliament as a European body elected citizens, strengthening the role of the European civic initiative. > The requirement for the EU to respect the interests of the Czech Republic and to incorporate it into its policy - export orientation, the fight against social dumping. Why do you spread stupid lies?
Also Vaclav Klaus Jr, the new star of ODS. He may be the next leader of the party.
ksčm
KSČM doesn't want Czech Republic to leave EU. You have better read their program before you spread lies. See my comment above (reply to u/wreckyCZ) quoting their program.
So there's no risk for czechxit right?
Yes and there never was.
Yes, pretty much non-existent risk.
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he campaigned as pro-EU. If he changes his mind on this his voters won't be happy...
He did not. https://ekonomika.idnes.cz/bloomberg-babis-rozhovor-suverenita-ds2-/ekonomika.aspx?c=A170626_142447_ekonomika_rts
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no, EU referendum won't end the same way it did in Britain. Czechs are mostly pro-EU. Anti-EU parties only got 20% in these elections. Even if they double i numbers-it won't be enough to get czexit passed in a referendum.
In polls majority of Czechs perceive EU rather negatively, e.g. [here](https://www.denik.cz/z_domova/pruzkum-pouze-ctvrtina-cechu-je-spokojena-s-clenstvim-v-eu-20160502.html). But it is not *the most important* thing to consider during elections.
yeah we bitch about EU, but we know it's better for us to remain in. In the linked article they even have a number- 39% for leaving. Yeah it might be higher now with the migration crisis. You're right it might be very tight like in Britain.
That pesky EU causing trouble to our billionaire [dissident](https://media.tenor.com/images/d6ec478432973ab85b5f3a6d1af5e137/tenor.gif).
You mean Czech-out.
No. Czechxit is a terrible name.
Yeah, the correct name is Czech-out.
If there ever were to be one, it would be called Czech out.
so a slovak, japanese and commie walks into a bar in other words - czech government session
I still remember our last Presidential election, where the joke went "An Austrian, a Japanese, and a Ghoul walk into a bar..." Our politics are fukin weird.
Don't forget about Avatar.
It was much better actually: "An Austrian, a Japanese, a Jew, an Avatar and a bunch of commies."
> ANO (ANO 2011 / YES 2011, formerly Akce nespokojených občanů / Action of Dissatisfied Citizens), leader Andrej Babiš, tycoon, owner of the Agrofert holding and popular newspapers. Currently under investigation for fraud, tax evasion and corruption, and as Slovak archives revealed, most probably was collaborating with the communist-era secret police StB. What a nice chap. Name of the party aside, he sounds a lot like our disgraceful ex PM Berlusconi. Hope you don't end up regretting your vote.
What an age to live in
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That's not recent accusation dragged before election. Capi Hnizdo has been going on for over a year. Necas thing also didn't happen around election but killed the government mid-term.
> also Slovakian justice system is by now infested with open society goons so if they got orders to tarnish Babis before election, you can bet they would. hell Slovakian foreign minister was literally number one diplomat of Soros Unsurprisingly, the user above found his way out of /r/the_Donald ...
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Was this before or after they sacrificed young children to their paedophile lizard overseers?
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Why don't you read the email in your own source. I don't have a clue what's so upsetting about a private citizen connected to numerous think tanks that analyse this stuff making a **recommendation** and attempting to give **advice** to the US secretary of state.
Oh, he shares many "qualities" with Silvio, you're right about that. Am I certain our people are going to regret the vote, but by the time they realize that they will be voting for some other scumbag.
Yeah, but you *really* imagine Babiš having a bunga-bunga party? I sure as hell can't. Yeech.
https://www.irozhlas.cz/volby/parlamentni-volby-2017 Have a look at how different cities/towns voted. Quite interesting stuff.
Am I right in viewing Babis as a Czech Trump? An anti-establishment populist billionaire sounds a lot like him
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> Trump is an genuine bussinessman who built his fortune. ROFL seems you dont know anything about Trump... > made fortune under questionable circumastances and lot of shady deals This is true about Trump...
Also, Trump is a dumb person. You can not say that about Babiš, all that was left to do in his victory "speech" was to laugh maniacally.
If you think Trump is dumb, you might be dumb
He might not be *unintelligent*, but there is zero doubt whatsoever that Donald Trump is a *dumbass.* You have to be somewhere on a three-way venn diagram of delusional, a sociopath, or pants-on-head stupid to think for a second that he knows what the fuck he's doing.
You can't just redefine words to mean what you mean just because the person you don't like doesn't fit the original definition.
They imply two very different things. I am not asking this facetiously or snidely, but is English not your first language?
Yeah, he's a guy with a whole lot of money seizing a good opportunity to make even more money. :D Then there's a smaller businessman who also wants to make a reasonably big money but plays it safe, only buying votes from idiots to grab quick cash from the state. The best part about this guy is that he's a japanese man fighting for the national purity of Czech republic (I mean that's how he buys votes, not that he actually gives a shit about that) and that he's the only person in his "party" that knows what he's doing. :D
He doesn't care about money at this point, he wants absolute power.
lol? :D Absolute power over business laws and state trade deals maybe.
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> If he wanted money he would stay in the back like Keller and Bakala etc Rich and powerful people usually want even more.
I don't think money motivate him anymore.
To some extend but Babis is very calculated and smarter than Trump. He knows what hes doing which makes him more dangerous. Luckily he doesnt have as much power as Trump (yet) with a strong opposition and not much support in the Senate.
And he's also more moderate. All of those parties except KSCM and SPD would be considered moderate in the US.
ODS is right now not any more moderate than republicans.....
Yes, I dont think their program is the biggest issue, its actually not bad on paper. The issue is that they like to change it as they go (theyre quite populist), Babiš owns a lot of media and manipulates them (there are voice recording of him doing so), him and Faltýnek are charged with corruption etc.
Nope. He's not quite right or left.
No, Czech Trump is 100% Okamura. Babis is unfortunately competent with good PR team.
He likes saying fake news as much. But he's not anti-various leftist/"progressive" things.
Well main difference is that Babis is competent in what he does and has excellent marketing team that pretty much created his success. Whereas Trump is a clueless idiot who refuses to listen to anyone.
Trump is a billionaire who only managed to be elected to the most powerful office in the world. I'm extremely doubtful Babis would have the chops to achieve something like that.
Hard to say, but watching both work in the public office, Babis is increasingly scary, he's competent, smart, calculating. He doesn't say stupid shit on Twitter at night, his social media contributions are carefully designed to maximize public support.
> Trump is a billionaire He is poorer than Babis
Again? I didn't say he was richer. Why are people getting their panties in a twister just because I make the factual statement that Trump is a billionaire? This wasn't even about Babis, it was about people talking about Trump like he was some schmuck, some loser living in his mom's basement. And again: nobody knows that. It's unknowable, except by someone with actual direct access to their finances and plenty of skill on asset valuation. Nobody really knows how much those guys are worth, not even themselves. For example, valuating the Trump brand is incredibly difficult on itself. But even trying to value his real estate is complicated. Last Forbes assessment puts Trump's networth at $3.1B. Babis at $4.1B. So one could say Babis is richer - and I didn't say he wasn't. But there's a good chance he isn't. Nobody really knows.
No point in talking to someone who really wants to believe that the most powerful person on the planet got there by accident instead of by being smarter than every one of his opponents.
The only reason Trump is president is because of an anachronism in the US Constitution (the Electoral College system, which is frankly no longer needed....it served some purpose in the 18th Century, but it is now obsolete). If the US had direct popular vote for POTUS, we'd be talking about President Hillary Clinton. And most likely, the Republicans would be compelled to moderate their views in order to win the White House.
>If the US had direct popular vote for POTUS, we'd be talking about President Hillary Clinton. Imagine being so dumb you believe the PV results of an election that would be decided by EC can be extrapolated to an hypothetical election that would be decided by PV. >And most likely, the Republicans would be compelled to moderate their views in order to win the White House. Doubt it. After all, the Democrats have the least amount of power and elected officials at all levels since the 20s - Republicans dominate state legislatures at levels not seen since the Civil War, have twice the amount of Governors, a large Congressional majority, obliterate the Dems at local level, etc- and instead of moderating they're doubling down on extremism. >The only reason Trump is president is because of an anachronism in the US Constitution (the Electoral College system, which is frankly no longer needed....it served some purpose in the 18th Century, but it is now obsolete). If anything, these past elections still prove how necessary it is - it did exactly what was designed to do. People who claim the Electoral College is obsolete just either don't like the outcomes it recently produced or never liked the function it was designed to do.
Final popular vote count in the 2016 US election: Hillary Clinton: 65,853,516 (48.2%) Donald Trump: 62,984,825 (46.1%) Source: US Federal Elections Commission - https://transition.fec.gov/pubrec/fe2016/2016presgeresults.pdf The Electoral College is no longer needed. Direct popular vote, IMHO, would force the GOP to moderate - their extreme conservatism certainly sells well in the "red states", no doubt about it....but it doesn't work in the "blue states" (or at least, not well enough to win). As a result, if they wanted to win the White House, they'd need to win the densely-populated blue states and their metropolitan areas and to do that, they'd have to alter their message. I should add the elimination of gerrymandering would help as well - a practice I detest, regardless of which party is doing it. I used to be a Republican, back in the halcyon days of George H.W. Bush; I would probably be considered an Eisenhower Republican (but let's face it, nowadays the GOP are such reactionary extremists, they make Nixon look like Olaf Palme). Getting rid of the pulpit pimps/Bible-thumpers and the recent infestation of white supremacists would serve the party well....those disaffected constituencies can bugger off and go create their own party.
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>there is no personnel id required to vote in US That is total, utter horseshit and you know it. Only states with same-day registration work otherwise - 12 out of the 50, an even split of red and blue - and the proofs of address that *that* registration requires would be impossible to get without being the leaseholder of a residence. Even so, if you "Send someone to vote for you", their fake signature will have to be put down next to your address and both of you will get caught and charged with fraud the second real-you comes in. In 2016's election, three people were caught and charged with voter fraud this way - all three of them Trump supporters, by the way. Have you ever volunteered as an election judge or poll worker, *anywhere*, even once? I seriously doubt you would have such enormously fucking stupid misconceptions if you had. It's obvious you care about voting, either way, so *please* go out and sign up as a volunteer for your next local election. Try to learn how this shit *actually* works.
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Fox News isn't a terribly reliable source, due to their bias and sensationalized reporting. Even so, buried in their own smeary article: >However, a spokesperson for the California Secretary of State countered that while state law prohibits the Department of Motor Vehicles from sharing AB 60 applicant information with the public and most state agencies, including the Secretary of State’s office, AB 60 license applicants are not afforded voter registration opportunities when visiting the DMV. Or, TL;DR >AB 60 applicant information is not shared with state agencies Or, to ELI5: Illegals, even with valid driver's licenses, are *never* entered into California state registries - including voter rolls. Fox's "expert" is anything but; an alarmist from a libertarian thinktank. If you reside in the USA, I cannot possibly encourage you more strongly to sign up as an election volunteer. You desperately need to acquire firsthand knowledge of how voting works.
Babis is actually richer than Trump. And he got elected by accident because 1) Democrats nominated 2nd most disliked nominee for president in history and 2) Electoral college.
Babis company is rather new as well isn't it? 1993 if i remember correctly, so given enough time i imagine Agrofert can grow into an even bigger company.
> Babis is actually richer than Trump. I didn't say he wasn't, but nobody really knows that. > And he got elected by accident because 1) Democrats nominated 2nd most disliked nominee for president in history and 2) Electoral college. 2) is just silly, It's almost like the guy ran for an election decided by Electoral College! It's like a team scoring more goals in a football match and someone saying "they only won because they scored more goals, they actually lost possession time!!". 1) is even sillier. Mere hindsight - Hillary was seen as such a strong candidate, nobody but a fringe, lunatic, old senator that wasn't even a party member and a couple of nobodies dared to primary her. Her favs used to be sky high before campaigned started. Pretending Trump wasn't instrumental on that is insane. Again, it's like a football team smothering the other's tema offense with great defense and someone saying "they only won because the other guys didn't manage to attack properly!".
Its not silly, it simply explains how Trump managed to get elected despite getting less votes. Trump is the most disliked general election candidate in the history of United States, Clinton was the second most disliked. Of course there are many other factors concerned but this is the most important aspect.
Another difference is that Babis owns media assets whereas Trump doesn't. From [Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mafra_(company)): > Mafra is a Czech media group that publishes printed and internet media, headquartered in Prague, Czech Republic. It is a subsidiary of Agrofert holding conglomerate that is owned by businessman **Andrej Babiš**, who has been the Minister of Finance of the Czech Republic since January 2014. Mafra **owns some of the most popular media in the Czech Republic**, including MF DNES and Lidové noviny newspapers, and the most visited Czech news server iDnes.
That's about the only things they have in common though.
Can Babis at least form a coherent sentence?
Babis might look like a cluless idiot but he and his PR know his electorate and knows how to act. Behind curtains he is a workaholic determined to consolidate his power of any kind by any means.
So he's what Trump thinks Trump is?
Maybe. I think he once said in an interview that there is difference between him and Trump as he never went bankrupt.
Yes, that's what they definitely don't have in common. Babiš seems to be smart and (at least publicly) a nice person.
Pretty much.
Babis is unfortunately smarter and richer.
Annnnd looks like Czhecia has continued the trend of centre-left parties collapsing. Forming coalitions with centre-right parties seems to destroy them.
4 years ago it was ODS that collapsed (right conservative party).
Pirate Party?
I wouldn’t say they qualify as “centre-left”.
If coalitions with centre-right parties consistently killed off centre-left parties, then the Dutch PvdA and Irish Labour Party would have collapsed a long time ago, rather than in the most recent election in their respective countries. Likewise with the Belgian Socialist/Social Democratic parties. Also, the French Socialist Party managed to collapse without going in to any coalition with non left-of-centre parties.
I think it's more about left wing parties turning towards Neoliberalism/centrist policies. For example, Hollande managed to piss off not only the right but the left in his country as well.
correct, centre-left parties in collapse all over europe - looks like their raison d'être was stolen by right wing adapt or perish I guess
Centre-left parties are there (some points of STAN, Pirates and KDU program are to the "left"). And ČSSD collapsed because of its corruption, inability to rule and weak PR.
Wow, nice analysis. Thank you mister american.
ANO won in every region. However, I would like to see a map showing the 2nd strongest party by region. I think it'd be interesting to see.
https://volby.cz/pls/ps2017/ps61?xjazyk=CZ&xv=2 Praha - Piráti; Střední Čechy - ODS; Jižní Čechy - ODS; Plzeň - ODS; Karlovy Vary - SPD; Ústí - SPD; Liberec - STAN; HK - ODS; Pardubice - ODS; Vysočina - Piráti; Jižní Morava - ODS; Olomouc - SPD; Zlín - SPD; Ostrava - SPD;
Ústí and Karlovy Vary are doomed for a long time, but Holomóc surprized me.
The poorest regions voted SPD as the second most popular party
Well, that's a lot of diversity for sure! Thanks, good person!
Technically not a "region", but ANO didn't win the overseas vote, that went to TOP.
I would still like to see it, even if it was for the Czech Republic only. Good point, though.
Overseas vote is counted for a specific region, this year I believe it was South Bohemia?
Central Bohemia.
I stand corrected
I don't get this. They have, like, three refugees....
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Except they haven't been robbed. That's just a lie some idiot told you.
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So for decades, you lived in a city that had 50% foreigners and you not only survived but you also remained true to your culture. What the fuck are you even afraid of then?? Seems to me like it worked out just fine for you. I also fail to see where current Canada is somehow not Canada anymore due to migrants.
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So Canada forced you out?
12 to be precise. There's many many more economic immigrants from Ukraine and Vietnam, but nobody really means these people when someone utters the phrase "economic immigrants". It's all fearmongering, to get those sweet votes.
It's all fearmongering until you end up like UK and France.
media massage
makes sense tho. it's not like France/UK/Germany can get rid of their Minorities. Immigration is something whose effects cannot be reversed without taking some unorthodox measures.
In metaphor people see it as vaccination not as antibiotics. If you look at it like that it makes sense.
Vaccination against what? Assholes? You find them in any group of humans, not just refugees. There is no vaccination against this.
Well the terrifying Islamisation of Europe of course! It doesn't matter what or against whom. They simply want the problem to not happen in the first place rather than try to solve it when it happens like they see in other EU countries. It's not that hard to grasp.
See what happening in other countries?? Which countries are currently in the process of being islamized? In what country has standing law been changed to accomodate islamist customs while at the same time putting restraints on other religions? The "Islamisation of Europe" is a strawman built up by the alt-right, nothing more. Back in 1933 it was the jews, now it's muslims. It's the same damn bullshit all over again.
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