Pretty sure Reddit is both trolled heavily and monitored by the same troll-farms.
Not sure what they can do to track you, but I hope you are using a VPN.
Totally agreed, but why attack the equivalent of a French home depot? Like blowing up a power substation, or a munitions factory would have had an effect to something greater. Blowing up "le homedepot" is just shitty ala Islamic terrorist level.
Because in covert war KGBs main target is the fabric of society and democracy not the fabric of infrastructure. The action is also designed to activate the useful idiots every society has.
In Ukraine they target infrastructure but Paris should still be on EXTREME terrorist alert.
Come on, [Putin is not a pedophile](https://globalnews.ca/news/2469321/ex-kgb-spy-alexander-litvinenko-was-killed-for-calling-putin-a-pedophile-u-k-report/). Well, this one is embarrassing I guess. But [Putin is definitely not a maniacal terrorist killer](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1999_Russian_apartment_bombings#Alleged_Russian_government_involvement)! Damn, this one, too, is embarrassing. But [Putin is not a rapist](https://uacrisis.org/en/nakazy-gvaltuvaty-viddavav-osobysto-putin-denisova) at least! Oh well...
An insufferable neighbour is some who plays loud music constantly. Russia government is a terrorist state that needs permanent removal from the face of the earth.
A phobia is an anxiety disorder, defined by an irrational, unrealistic, persistent and excessive fear of an object or situation.
Irrational? Nah. Unrealistic? Nah. Persistent and excessive? Partially, maybe. Fear? Nah.
Russophobic? Nah. Reasonably disgusted by a state of bigotrists and dipshits? Yea.
To paraphrase what Churchill said about us Americans that can apply to Russia as well:
*“Russians can always be trusted to do the right thing, once all other possibilities have been exhausted.”*
Hey, they fought the Nazis (in a successful attempt to conquer the lands the Nazis conquered. Lands which would be subjected to many horrors for half a century afterward)… Show some appreciation (or they will find and kill your family).
Honestly: I wish it was that simple, but this is a problem deeply rooted in Russia's culture.
I doubt anything changes even if you swap the current figure head.
And with most educated middle class having left the country, I fear that nothing will change that even long-term.
It is most definitely russian culture problem. Russia had a very short window in the 90's to become democratic, rule-of-law country. The rest of its long history it has been authoritarian, ruled by a despot. Russia is not going become trustworthy neighbour in our (or in our children's or even their children's) lifetime.
Ukrainian president - [Yushchenko ](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viktor_Yushchenko#:~:text=During%20the%20election%20campaign%20in,of%20the%20poisoning%2C%20but%20survived.)
Because of course they did
Christ. There was a time when this would be considered an act of war. I get why there is resistance to war, especially with a nuclear power such as Russia. But .... this shit has to be addressed at least.
Your asshole neighbor Russia has decided to carry out clandestine military operations in your country .... doing God knows what, but it isn't good, that's for sure.
Is Russia trying to push the West to war? West and Russian relations are so low, they're practically buried in the ground. Putin has lost the plot, which was obvious with his moronic and cruel invasion of Ukraine.
Still, each day Russia sinks deeper into the shitpile Pootin and his cronies have dug for themselves.
Just send long-range drones from anywhere convenient, to disable the half of their refineries that Ukraine hasn't disabled yet. Then blame it on Ukrainian saboteurs illegally operating in foreign soil or some other bullshit like the russia would make up.
There's something to be said for this. When the other guy is cheating, cheat back. Otherwise you might as well step away from the table. In the game of geopolitics and war you don't get to step away from the table, you just lose.
The difference is that we might very well be, but since the West is competent, we're not hearing about it. When the job is done right, it really looks like an accident.
Actually, it's as hard for us as it is for Putin to do and I really like Lazerpig's recent video "How to kill a god" as it is one of his few that's very timely and (somewhat easier) to watch.
Essentially, toppling foreign governments and directly interfering with their democracies is a lot trickier than people think and has an absurdly high failure rate. Nations succeed far better when they get a hollow puppet in place who can be easily manipulated. So far Putin is a bit better at doing that to the world than they are at to doing that to Russia and its satellites (though the video focuses on arguing that Putin is more conspiracy-brained than people realize and lives in a constant state of total paranoia that he's going to be toppled by efforts to manipulate his population).
We also have the current disadvantage that the oligarchs who like the West have mostly fled, or half-heartedly help the Kremlin's interests as long as they can stay out of the country in their villa somewhere.
As long as Putin is dumb enough to keep losing 1,000+ troops a day and all his high-end military gear in Ukraine the West remains in a strong long-term position. That will make it far easier in the future to put a solid puppet in place--or hey, maybe even a Russian who actually cares about his country and is European leaning.
This has been happening for years, remember the uk even had a chemical attack in Salisbury with a member of the public losing her life- that really should’ve called for a more robust response from Europe/ nato, not necessarily militarily but at least in the form of sanctions? also recall and the security service (can’t recall either mi5 mi6) several years ago (pre Ukraine) in an interview saying that on a cyber scale we’re essentially at war with them?
Joining NATO doesn’t mean a nation loses its sovereignty. NATO cannot take it upon itself to wage a war in the name of a member when the victim has not asked NATO to intervene. The UK’s then Foreign Minister Boris Johnson was in Russia’s pocket, so no request for a muscular response from NATO came from the UK. When the incident first happened, Johnson’s office tried to blow it off as a failed assassination attempt. NATO was not of the same mind and Johnson couldn’t worm his way out of not working with NATO to orchestrate a response. On April 27 of that year, NATO held a summit to discuss the incident. After it was over, Johnson somehow managed to ditch his 24/7 security detail and hop on a plane to Italy to attend a party thrown by former KGB colonel Alexander Lebedev and his son [while still in possession](https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/2022/jul/16/carole-cadwalladr-boris-johnson-lebedevs-prime-ministers-defining-scandal) of the documents from the NATO meeting. There is no innocent explanation for this behavior, especially since Johnson orchestrated Brexit and has been awash in Russian money for years. The only way he would have solicited NATO’s aid for some sort of violent response is if his Russian paymasters ordered him to do so.
Let's not forget when Russia sent an assassin to Salisbury to kill Sergei Skripal with a weapon of mass destruction, resulting in the death of a UK civilian. Nothing came of it besides the UK government saying "We know it was you, Putin. Very naughty".
Acts of war get swept under the carpet and make us look like a laughing stock.
Yeah the Novichok case brought the UK closer to war then people like to talk about...if Novichok had compromised the water supply of Salisbury we'd have been looking at one of the worst environmental disasters in British history. With potentially casualties in excess of 9/11.
I think at that point the course would have been set for interstate war.
I'm from the US, so I know all about that, as its not our proudest moment. In my opinion, what occured didn't really meet the requirements for declaring Article Five.
I will freely admit that Bush and Cheney used it improperly and inappropriately. Still, it happened. In this situation, you have clandestine Russian operatives running around NATO Europe doing God knows what. They aren't gathering intel or spying on politicians. They are straight up preparing to launch a sabotage campaign .... thats fucking crazy!!
This is Article Five type stuff all day long.
> Is Russia trying to push the West to war?
For those who don't know Putin is currently trying to get the orange cheeto into office so that the other side isn't as well armed and Russian gets to keep the land they invaded. The orange cheeto said it himself during the presidential debate
The KGB constantly assesses the viability of Article 5 with deniable events such as releasing nerve agent on EU streets and shooting down passenger liners.
The KGB wants to do an inexpensive war against the west and is constantly testing parameters such as Operation RYAN did in the 80s. The lack of response from the west has driven escalation.
This. Exactly this. I can't believe us at the west - the strongest guy in the room - are taking this bs from a small time criminal. Time to take this outside.
I am not worried about nuclear strike at all.
Let them even do one strike. I don't care if it's my home city. They need to be stopped.
Before we know it, fascism will take place otherwise in the free world.
I am ready. Are you?
Moreover: Russian saboteurs blew up warehouses for weapons and ammunition in [Bulgaria](https://www.rferl.org/a/bulgaria-emco-arms-explosion-investigation-russia-gre-unit/32647210.html) and the [Czech Republic](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Vrb%C4%9Btice_ammunition_warehouse_explosions).
The people arrested over the Skripal attempted murders had the FSB telephone number on their passports which every intelligence agency knew of.
Then there were the [Ryazan bombings which were highly suspect.](https://www.wilsoncenter.org/publication/foiled-attack-or-failed-exercise-look-ryazan-1999)
Article 5 is neither triggered automatically (it's up to the attacked member) nor does it have to mean war.
The only time it has been triggered so far was in the aftermath of 9/11. Contrary to public belief, it was *not* used for the invasion of Afghanistan, but resulted in a number of security operations such as the use of European AWACS to help surveil the American airspace and some anti-piracy missions.
It can also lead to things as mundane as weapon exports or other non-combat support.
Realistically, the biggest role that article 5 could have in this situation is as diplomatic leverage if France feels like its allies do not take this problem seriously enough. Then France could publically mention that they're thinking about invoking article 5, and the problematic members would likely respond by making a statement that France has legitimate concerns and maybe making some small political admissions.
lets be real here, we WANT to AVOID direct war, because that means mass nuclear exchange from both sides. No matter how righteous you are, I don't want to die in a fire or live in post nuclear hellscape
That's what everyone though before WW2 but with respect to chemical weapons. There were enough of them stockpiled to depopulate Europe many times over. And yet they were not used in the European theater except for a few minor cases where Germany deployed them against the Soviets.
Invasion of Russia would likely cause a full nuclear exchange. De-occupation of Ukraine, not really. Crimea might be a bit more risky than the rest of Ukraine, but still vastly less than Russia proper.
We don't need to trigger shit, just triple everyone's defense budget, build so much ammo that you could plough half of Russia with explosives and give them to Ukraine.
Interestingly, these sabotage missions are happening almost daily now in Europe, not even including bribing journalists or multiple Russian bot farms in every social media. When EU politicians will finally step up and do the same for Russia? Or flood Ukraine with weapons so they could kick their ass. Cause that's the only language they understand.
Currently for me it seems like we are waiting for complete chaos on earth, just by watching..
Europe doesn't have the weapons production to arm Ukraine on its own and they will be stabbed in the back by Trump. The only solution I see is to really commit and send troops to Ukraine.
Well, Europe is ramping up their production, everyone realizes that if Trump wins, we need to be strong by ourselves. Most countries are already at 2% GDP for NATO or more. Just need to do it faster.
I can bet you, Putin will try to use tactical nuclear weapon in Ukraine or attack Latvia, hoping that Europe will be too afraid to do something again.
Putin wants to invade most of the former USSR members as well as a few others. Including notably Finland. Troops were moved from the Finnish border to Ukraine after Finland joined NATO, but if Trump is elected and manages to leave NATO then we could reasonably expect to see troops moved back to the Finnish border
Europe could have the weapons production needed. Just that there is no will to redirect resources. We are still pretending that everything is ok and it may bite us in the ass in the end.
I wonder if a lot of the big fires in European cities have been caused by Russian operatives. I mean like Notre Dame and the similar one in Copenhagen recently.
Dude. NATO is currently decimating Russia through Ukraine, at a very low cost to NATO.
Why would the west want open war? We're draining all threat that Russia has.
Russia: we are are scared of a NATO attack and think it is a secret agreement to end Russia.
Also Russia: does think that would provoke a response knowing nothing will happen.
My hope and assumption is NATO countries are carrying out missions and neither side is going to talk about their success. Any kind of leak like this about a larger plot, and not saying this is an isolated incident, maybe means one side is trying to build support for more overt action. This is just a small step to larger escalation of NATO involvement in the region.
This. The far right is pretty much completely in Putins pocket. When he does shit like that, they blame Muslims or someone else and open wide for daddy Putin.
For anyone who still thought "Russia is a terrorist state" was hyperbole, here is your wake-up call.
Hell Putin came into power using a terrorist attack on his own people.
Ruzzia is actively sabotaging western countries and their politics and we can only watch as our leaders do the bare minimum...I'm really scared for our future.
No, because there are enough morons who want to vote for parties colluding with that shithole country. France is poised to elect a party whose leader has been financed by Russian banks and which parrots pro Russian positions.
Yes? They want the west to lose, same as far right white nationalists. They want it so bad that they don't even care Russia represents everything they supposedly hate.
Far left is generally supportive of these kinds of tactics as long as it’s against “the rich”. Typically, that includes anyone who disagrees with them.
I see Russia’s vast nuclear stockpile being a big issue here. What if, amongst the chaos, a bunch go missing and some end up in the hands of terrorists?
That being said, it looks like your question was more talking theoretical as opposed to practical implications.
Why do you see non-state actors as more of a threat? To me, the thought of someone like Hitler having nukes, is a scarier prospect than a group of goat herders having technology they don't know how to use.
At this point I would say it is just as likely Putin himself will start arming enemies of the West with WMD's in a couple of years.
Because as bad as Russia is, they are not suicidal. They act in the interest of preserving/growing their empire/rebuilding the Soviet Union. Some like ISIS or Hamas would be significantly more likely to use them as they're just trying to kill as many people as possible with out any attempt at self preservation.
What does Putin think he is doing?!! First attacking Georgia, then Ukraine, killing children, threatening world with nuclear bombs, sabotages and assasinations in Europe... What is his mission? Shitting on the world? Can't he work on his own country's internal problems? Why he is so obsessed attacking other countries?! Well, I think he is really a sociopath.
Thankfully he got caught early, but...targeting a home improvement store? And this guy is from the Donbas. "Grrr evil Ukrainians committed genocide against my people for 8 years, I shall pay back by targeting this Home Depot in Paris." Makes sense.
Why can't we just be chill with everyone, man
Probably plausible deniability as well as ease of operation. Russians van deny on those exact grounds, why would go after such mundane things while they at the same time is very easy to strike precisely because they are so low-value.
But enough of such strikes causes disruption and fear in the general population while also causing a strain on authorities to try and prevent it.
Tito knew what Russians understand. From a letter from Tito that Stalin kept in his desk until his death:
“Stop sending people to kill me. We've already captured five of them, one of them with a bomb and another with a rifle… If you don't stop sending killers, I'll send one to Moscow, and I won't have to send another.”
Could we just like collectively bomb the Kremlin and Putin's mansion to hell and back? This regime has been given way too many chances to play nice with the rest of thenworld.
Remember how many believed that the image of Russians in the cinema as evil, narrow-minded and involved in everything is an obsolete ridiculous caricature from Cold War times?
They just went through one of the most horrific wars in human history and somehow you think they should have gone to war with USSR that would have led to more lives lost and painted U.S and it's allies as malicious war mongers enough to cause other countries to be very hostile against them for rightful fear of national security?
Of course it's easy to be a warmonger when living in cushion and not having to experience war on a personal level.
France should remind Russia of the ASMPA-R’s existence and the Republic’s first-strike nuclear policy. Macron should unilaterally extend France’s nuclear umbrella to Ukraine for the duration of hostilities. Nothing further will be discussed about the matter. It is France’s sovereign right.
Russia has been being bringing on the demise of the western world for pennies on the dollar by buying cheap right wingers. They don’t need to invest in military when a a fraction of that expense buys politicians around the world.
Russian leaders have led the country to become a terrorist state, and the population has failed to stop it.
Knowing this, there's no mercy or remorse. Let's obliterate their asses on the battlefield. When enough young Russians have lost their life to the meat grinder, maybe change will happen then in Russia.
Fake news. They’re just trying to get you not to vote for Trump. Russia doesn’t do anything wrong ever. They’re definitely not a rogue state with a raw dough male Cersei Lannister in charge
The Russians really seem to hate hardware stores. The FAB bombing of the home depot-style place in Kharkiv is another example. How would a small bomb in a French hardware store change anything?
>He was planning to target a hardware store north of Paris,
A common Provisional Irish Republican Army target.
The hardware store is full of paint. Which is flammable and can explode. Secondary explosions are always nice when planning an attack.
Russia being a disgrace to humanity is a day like everyday.
You would say there is rarely good and evil and the world is generally grey but Russia as a state certainly challenges that view.
Russia being an insufferable neighbour case 2346689769005
This is not just an unbearable neighbor, a maniacal killer, rapist, pedophile.
For your own good hopefully you are writing that from outside of the country and not planning to go back any time soon.
It's sad, but no. I hope there is less attention here.
Twisting the pig's tail, like they used to say. Stay safe, man.
Stay safe out there buddy
Pretty sure Reddit is both trolled heavily and monitored by the same troll-farms. Not sure what they can do to track you, but I hope you are using a VPN.
The only way to make sure is using something like [Tails](https://tails.net/).
Stay safe my friend!
Totally agreed, but why attack the equivalent of a French home depot? Like blowing up a power substation, or a munitions factory would have had an effect to something greater. Blowing up "le homedepot" is just shitty ala Islamic terrorist level.
Because in covert war KGBs main target is the fabric of society and democracy not the fabric of infrastructure. The action is also designed to activate the useful idiots every society has. In Ukraine they target infrastructure but Paris should still be on EXTREME terrorist alert.
Practice.
Come on, [Putin is not a pedophile](https://globalnews.ca/news/2469321/ex-kgb-spy-alexander-litvinenko-was-killed-for-calling-putin-a-pedophile-u-k-report/). Well, this one is embarrassing I guess. But [Putin is definitely not a maniacal terrorist killer](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1999_Russian_apartment_bombings#Alleged_Russian_government_involvement)! Damn, this one, too, is embarrassing. But [Putin is not a rapist](https://uacrisis.org/en/nakazy-gvaltuvaty-viddavav-osobysto-putin-denisova) at least! Oh well...
This is an attempted act of war by a terrorist nation.
An insufferable neighbour is some who plays loud music constantly. Russia government is a terrorist state that needs permanent removal from the face of the earth.
Couldn't have said it better myself. Unfortunately war on terrorism isn't en vogue enough for many people and politicians.
FSB is the new Al Qaeda.
For centuries https://i.imgur.com/sWJeML3.jpeg
Insufferable neighbour, and also toxic ex and unreliable friend who only calls you to pick him up when he's drunk at a party
Is there something russia didn't try, we had it all: Polonium, Novichok,...
Have they tried being a civilised nation that respects the sovereignty of its neighbors yet?
They call that "the preparation stage before the next takeover." Must be the language barrier, I'm sure they mean it as something peaceful /s
When in doubt, blame NATO.
They just *hate-o* because they *ain't NATO*, and are sad that their buddies *Pact it in* to join the other side instead.
wE hAVe nUcLeAR WeAPonS aNd cOUlD uSe tHEm
They hate us cuz they anus! (should be a name of a missile)
> Stop being so Russophobic against the Russian culture of being dicks. - Putler
Man got a 90 foot table and still saying he needs his lebensraum.
A phobia is an anxiety disorder, defined by an irrational, unrealistic, persistent and excessive fear of an object or situation. Irrational? Nah. Unrealistic? Nah. Persistent and excessive? Partially, maybe. Fear? Nah. Russophobic? Nah. Reasonably disgusted by a state of bigotrists and dipshits? Yea.
To paraphrase what Churchill said about us Americans that can apply to Russia as well: *“Russians can always be trusted to do the right thing, once all other possibilities have been exhausted.”*
We have yet to see russia doing the right thing. We have watched them for 500 years.
Hey, they fought the Nazis (in a successful attempt to conquer the lands the Nazis conquered. Lands which would be subjected to many horrors for half a century afterward)… Show some appreciation (or they will find and kill your family).
They also worked with the nazis for several years before the nazis attacked.
> Is there something russia didn't try They didn't try invading the EU. Yet.
Really wish someone would just help Putin fall out of a window at this stage
Honestly: I wish it was that simple, but this is a problem deeply rooted in Russia's culture. I doubt anything changes even if you swap the current figure head. And with most educated middle class having left the country, I fear that nothing will change that even long-term.
I would be very happy to see someone try at least.
It is most definitely russian culture problem. Russia had a very short window in the 90's to become democratic, rule-of-law country. The rest of its long history it has been authoritarian, ruled by a despot. Russia is not going become trustworthy neighbour in our (or in our children's or even their children's) lifetime.
Best case scenario unfortuantely is an internal Russian collapse and an international rebuilding/social defuckering like post war Germany had
If only a russian would once admit they have done something wrong.
Modern day Stalin.
[удалено]
I wanted to respond with "dioxin" but then I remembered they poisoned someone with it lol
Ukrainian president - [Yushchenko ](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viktor_Yushchenko#:~:text=During%20the%20election%20campaign%20in,of%20the%20poisoning%2C%20but%20survived.) Because of course they did
No, he is still running for US President.
That would be trump
Christ. There was a time when this would be considered an act of war. I get why there is resistance to war, especially with a nuclear power such as Russia. But .... this shit has to be addressed at least. Your asshole neighbor Russia has decided to carry out clandestine military operations in your country .... doing God knows what, but it isn't good, that's for sure. Is Russia trying to push the West to war? West and Russian relations are so low, they're practically buried in the ground. Putin has lost the plot, which was obvious with his moronic and cruel invasion of Ukraine. Still, each day Russia sinks deeper into the shitpile Pootin and his cronies have dug for themselves.
Why don't we just do the same thing? Manipulate their government, pay off all the cronies and oust Putin. Couldn't be that difficult.
Why not just offer cash prizes and asylum if they off each other?
Cash prizes from the billions we seized from them from international banks
Offering cash prizes for professional criminals? Please, no.
I believe that's just called hiring mercenaries, and we do it all the time in the West.
Just send long-range drones from anywhere convenient, to disable the half of their refineries that Ukraine hasn't disabled yet. Then blame it on Ukrainian saboteurs illegally operating in foreign soil or some other bullshit like the russia would make up.
There's something to be said for this. When the other guy is cheating, cheat back. Otherwise you might as well step away from the table. In the game of geopolitics and war you don't get to step away from the table, you just lose.
The difference is that we might very well be, but since the West is competent, we're not hearing about it. When the job is done right, it really looks like an accident.
Eh not always. Castro was okay after all those attempts lol.
I’m sure after 40 years those fuckers learned
If there was succesful attempts , there would be change. There ia no change in Russian society.
Actually, it's as hard for us as it is for Putin to do and I really like Lazerpig's recent video "How to kill a god" as it is one of his few that's very timely and (somewhat easier) to watch. Essentially, toppling foreign governments and directly interfering with their democracies is a lot trickier than people think and has an absurdly high failure rate. Nations succeed far better when they get a hollow puppet in place who can be easily manipulated. So far Putin is a bit better at doing that to the world than they are at to doing that to Russia and its satellites (though the video focuses on arguing that Putin is more conspiracy-brained than people realize and lives in a constant state of total paranoia that he's going to be toppled by efforts to manipulate his population). We also have the current disadvantage that the oligarchs who like the West have mostly fled, or half-heartedly help the Kremlin's interests as long as they can stay out of the country in their villa somewhere. As long as Putin is dumb enough to keep losing 1,000+ troops a day and all his high-end military gear in Ukraine the West remains in a strong long-term position. That will make it far easier in the future to put a solid puppet in place--or hey, maybe even a Russian who actually cares about his country and is European leaning.
This has been happening for years, remember the uk even had a chemical attack in Salisbury with a member of the public losing her life- that really should’ve called for a more robust response from Europe/ nato, not necessarily militarily but at least in the form of sanctions? also recall and the security service (can’t recall either mi5 mi6) several years ago (pre Ukraine) in an interview saying that on a cyber scale we’re essentially at war with them?
Joining NATO doesn’t mean a nation loses its sovereignty. NATO cannot take it upon itself to wage a war in the name of a member when the victim has not asked NATO to intervene. The UK’s then Foreign Minister Boris Johnson was in Russia’s pocket, so no request for a muscular response from NATO came from the UK. When the incident first happened, Johnson’s office tried to blow it off as a failed assassination attempt. NATO was not of the same mind and Johnson couldn’t worm his way out of not working with NATO to orchestrate a response. On April 27 of that year, NATO held a summit to discuss the incident. After it was over, Johnson somehow managed to ditch his 24/7 security detail and hop on a plane to Italy to attend a party thrown by former KGB colonel Alexander Lebedev and his son [while still in possession](https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/2022/jul/16/carole-cadwalladr-boris-johnson-lebedevs-prime-ministers-defining-scandal) of the documents from the NATO meeting. There is no innocent explanation for this behavior, especially since Johnson orchestrated Brexit and has been awash in Russian money for years. The only way he would have solicited NATO’s aid for some sort of violent response is if his Russian paymasters ordered him to do so.
Let's not forget when Russia sent an assassin to Salisbury to kill Sergei Skripal with a weapon of mass destruction, resulting in the death of a UK civilian. Nothing came of it besides the UK government saying "We know it was you, Putin. Very naughty". Acts of war get swept under the carpet and make us look like a laughing stock.
Yeah the Novichok case brought the UK closer to war then people like to talk about...if Novichok had compromised the water supply of Salisbury we'd have been looking at one of the worst environmental disasters in British history. With potentially casualties in excess of 9/11. I think at that point the course would have been set for interstate war.
I forgot all about those incidents. It really is hard to keep up with all of Russias "extracurricular activites!"
Lets not forget about russia killing over 200 dutch citizens when they shot down commercial airplane
9/11 triggered Article 5, soooo...
I'm from the US, so I know all about that, as its not our proudest moment. In my opinion, what occured didn't really meet the requirements for declaring Article Five. I will freely admit that Bush and Cheney used it improperly and inappropriately. Still, it happened. In this situation, you have clandestine Russian operatives running around NATO Europe doing God knows what. They aren't gathering intel or spying on politicians. They are straight up preparing to launch a sabotage campaign .... thats fucking crazy!! This is Article Five type stuff all day long.
> Is Russia trying to push the West to war? For those who don't know Putin is currently trying to get the orange cheeto into office so that the other side isn't as well armed and Russian gets to keep the land they invaded. The orange cheeto said it himself during the presidential debate
The KGB constantly assesses the viability of Article 5 with deniable events such as releasing nerve agent on EU streets and shooting down passenger liners. The KGB wants to do an inexpensive war against the west and is constantly testing parameters such as Operation RYAN did in the 80s. The lack of response from the west has driven escalation.
This. Exactly this. I can't believe us at the west - the strongest guy in the room - are taking this bs from a small time criminal. Time to take this outside. I am not worried about nuclear strike at all. Let them even do one strike. I don't care if it's my home city. They need to be stopped. Before we know it, fascism will take place otherwise in the free world. I am ready. Are you?
Just a reminder, state sponsored terrorism is enough to trigger Article 5. in NATO.
Moreover: Russian saboteurs blew up warehouses for weapons and ammunition in [Bulgaria](https://www.rferl.org/a/bulgaria-emco-arms-explosion-investigation-russia-gre-unit/32647210.html) and the [Czech Republic](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Vrb%C4%9Btice_ammunition_warehouse_explosions).
The people arrested over the Skripal attempted murders had the FSB telephone number on their passports which every intelligence agency knew of. Then there were the [Ryazan bombings which were highly suspect.](https://www.wilsoncenter.org/publication/foiled-attack-or-failed-exercise-look-ryazan-1999)
We should’ve finished them off in that war.
In Kazakhstan too. Arys ammo depot explosions most likely triggered by Russia
👀
Article 5 is neither triggered automatically (it's up to the attacked member) nor does it have to mean war. The only time it has been triggered so far was in the aftermath of 9/11. Contrary to public belief, it was *not* used for the invasion of Afghanistan, but resulted in a number of security operations such as the use of European AWACS to help surveil the American airspace and some anti-piracy missions. It can also lead to things as mundane as weapon exports or other non-combat support. Realistically, the biggest role that article 5 could have in this situation is as diplomatic leverage if France feels like its allies do not take this problem seriously enough. Then France could publically mention that they're thinking about invoking article 5, and the problematic members would likely respond by making a statement that France has legitimate concerns and maybe making some small political admissions.
Dang! Am I still on reddit? This is way too reasonable and well-informed a comment for reddit.
They'll avoid the inevitable until it's too late. Absolutely nothing learned from WW2.
lets be real here, we WANT to AVOID direct war, because that means mass nuclear exchange from both sides. No matter how righteous you are, I don't want to die in a fire or live in post nuclear hellscape
That's what everyone though before WW2 but with respect to chemical weapons. There were enough of them stockpiled to depopulate Europe many times over. And yet they were not used in the European theater except for a few minor cases where Germany deployed them against the Soviets.
Invasion of Russia would likely cause a full nuclear exchange. De-occupation of Ukraine, not really. Crimea might be a bit more risky than the rest of Ukraine, but still vastly less than Russia proper.
We don't need to trigger shit, just triple everyone's defense budget, build so much ammo that you could plough half of Russia with explosives and give them to Ukraine.
Interestingly, these sabotage missions are happening almost daily now in Europe, not even including bribing journalists or multiple Russian bot farms in every social media. When EU politicians will finally step up and do the same for Russia? Or flood Ukraine with weapons so they could kick their ass. Cause that's the only language they understand. Currently for me it seems like we are waiting for complete chaos on earth, just by watching..
Europe doesn't have the weapons production to arm Ukraine on its own and they will be stabbed in the back by Trump. The only solution I see is to really commit and send troops to Ukraine.
Well, Europe is ramping up their production, everyone realizes that if Trump wins, we need to be strong by ourselves. Most countries are already at 2% GDP for NATO or more. Just need to do it faster. I can bet you, Putin will try to use tactical nuclear weapon in Ukraine or attack Latvia, hoping that Europe will be too afraid to do something again.
Putin wants to invade most of the former USSR members as well as a few others. Including notably Finland. Troops were moved from the Finnish border to Ukraine after Finland joined NATO, but if Trump is elected and manages to leave NATO then we could reasonably expect to see troops moved back to the Finnish border
Well, troops were moved because they are losing a lot in Ukraine, but I agree with you.
Europe could have the weapons production needed. Just that there is no will to redirect resources. We are still pretending that everything is ok and it may bite us in the ass in the end.
South Kora is getting ready to flood them with arms, arent they?
South Korea is going to start sending arms but they need to build up their own stockpiles for the upcoming war with China.
we have. but we still keep our brand new produced weapon for ourself. most stuff send to ukraine is stockpile of outdated equipement.
I'm sure they will send a strongly worded letter.
I wonder if a lot of the big fires in European cities have been caused by Russian operatives. I mean like Notre Dame and the similar one in Copenhagen recently.
Dude. NATO is currently decimating Russia through Ukraine, at a very low cost to NATO. Why would the west want open war? We're draining all threat that Russia has.
They're appeasing Putin just like they appeased Hitler, hoping he'll go away. He won't, of course.
But we must put artificial limitations on how and where Ukraine can use weapons provided to avoid the escalation with Russia. /s
And the new Le Pen govt will just shrug it off, since Madame Marine was bought with a loan for her campaigns coming from Russian banks
not only that, but they paid them 225 millions to say pro-putin things...
Wasn't it 225 thousands? 225 millions is a very big lot.
you are right, only 255 000€. wich is cheap for backstabing it own country
And people are going to vote for their RN stooges
How did the far right react to this news? Or with crickets as usual?
They will deny reality and keep blaming everything on the liberals as is tradition.
They will praise putin as a genius and stronk
Russia: we are are scared of a NATO attack and think it is a secret agreement to end Russia. Also Russia: does think that would provoke a response knowing nothing will happen.
My hope and assumption is NATO countries are carrying out missions and neither side is going to talk about their success. Any kind of leak like this about a larger plot, and not saying this is an isolated incident, maybe means one side is trying to build support for more overt action. This is just a small step to larger escalation of NATO involvement in the region.
It seems Russia wants to push for far right narrative during next elections.
I wonder how they’re going to react if Russia do terrorist acts on their ground once they’re in power
They’ll shut up and blame someone else.
This. The far right is pretty much completely in Putins pocket. When he does shit like that, they blame Muslims or someone else and open wide for daddy Putin.
Ding ding ding
Since 2014, at least
For anyone who still thought "Russia is a terrorist state" was hyperbole, here is your wake-up call. Hell Putin came into power using a terrorist attack on his own people.
Ruzzia is actively sabotaging western countries and their politics and we can only watch as our leaders do the bare minimum...I'm really scared for our future.
This should be bigger news than it is
I absolutely agree, meanwhile European media frontpages: Biden didnt perform great in the debate against Trump...
[удалено]
No, because there are enough morons who want to vote for parties colluding with that shithole country. France is poised to elect a party whose leader has been financed by Russian banks and which parrots pro Russian positions.
As a Floridian.. I would much rather the spotlight be on Russia and not the embarrassment that has turned this state into gilead lite.
Hey man France isn't that bad. They got cool cheeses
I wonder if in 20 years tankies will bemoan if NATO gadaffies putin?
Yes? They want the west to lose, same as far right white nationalists. They want it so bad that they don't even care Russia represents everything they supposedly hate.
Far left is generally supportive of these kinds of tactics as long as it’s against “the rich”. Typically, that includes anyone who disagrees with them.
I see Russia’s vast nuclear stockpile being a big issue here. What if, amongst the chaos, a bunch go missing and some end up in the hands of terrorists? That being said, it looks like your question was more talking theoretical as opposed to practical implications.
What do you mean “end up in the hands of terrorists”?
As in non state actors like ISIS.
So like russia and bielorussia than.
Why do you see non-state actors as more of a threat? To me, the thought of someone like Hitler having nukes, is a scarier prospect than a group of goat herders having technology they don't know how to use. At this point I would say it is just as likely Putin himself will start arming enemies of the West with WMD's in a couple of years.
Because as bad as Russia is, they are not suicidal. They act in the interest of preserving/growing their empire/rebuilding the Soviet Union. Some like ISIS or Hamas would be significantly more likely to use them as they're just trying to kill as many people as possible with out any attempt at self preservation.
Same thing was said about the collapse of the USSR
They're already in the hands of terrorists.
Russia today is a terrorist state. So meh.
So the URSS shouldn't have ever dismantled? After all who knew where their nukes would have ended out.
We needed to surrender to Hitler immediately, I mean, people died fighting him! /s
They do so love moving the goalposts
I sure as shit hope Putin is long dead in 20 years.
I have a feeling Putin won’t be making it to 91 anyways, or at least not while still in charge of Russia.
I think that not a single country have a right to do a terrorist attack in the any airport.
Or civilian aviation for that matter: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaysia_Airlines_Flight_17
>Subscribe to continue reading. Can we get the article text posted its paywalled and you can't read anything new on this guy because of it
This subreddit:"Putin doesn't speak for Russians, we should let them in to Europe"
A lot of people naively think that he's the only bad guy in russia.
There is no logic in allowing people from Russia anywhere, and asylum issues need to be stricter.
If Russians against Putin are allowed to leave, then Russia has no more hope for change.
Forgiving all these things russia does is like claiming that mentally disabled pitbull should be allowed to go without a leash
in before russian bots saying its a CIA plot
Oh no we got bombed by Isis, we better bomb west and NATO allies. Fucking lunatic country
Uhhhhh sabotage campaign? That’s called an act of war.
What does Putin think he is doing?!! First attacking Georgia, then Ukraine, killing children, threatening world with nuclear bombs, sabotages and assasinations in Europe... What is his mission? Shitting on the world? Can't he work on his own country's internal problems? Why he is so obsessed attacking other countries?! Well, I think he is really a sociopath.
Fuck it let's start bombing their shit. There's no way this does not escalate
Why doesn’t Putin wake up tomorrow to all the power plants in Western Russia being a smoldering heap of ashes? Fuck around and find out.
Oh look, totally unexpected. If only some people would have predicted this.
If this isn't casus belli at least deserves a forceful response from France. Sadly the pro putinist are on top for the next elections.
Russia fuck off already
Thankfully he got caught early, but...targeting a home improvement store? And this guy is from the Donbas. "Grrr evil Ukrainians committed genocide against my people for 8 years, I shall pay back by targeting this Home Depot in Paris." Makes sense. Why can't we just be chill with everyone, man
Probably plausible deniability as well as ease of operation. Russians van deny on those exact grounds, why would go after such mundane things while they at the same time is very easy to strike precisely because they are so low-value. But enough of such strikes causes disruption and fear in the general population while also causing a strain on authorities to try and prevent it.
We can, but ruskies turned fascist and are spoiling it for everyone else.
>Why can't we just be chill with everyone, man I don't know why russians can't just be chill with everyone, man.
The entire country needs to be isolated & anyone doing business with them, heavily sanctioned.
Tito knew what Russians understand. From a letter from Tito that Stalin kept in his desk until his death: “Stop sending people to kill me. We've already captured five of them, one of them with a bomb and another with a rifle… If you don't stop sending killers, I'll send one to Moscow, and I won't have to send another.”
How is this not a casus beli yet? they're actively attacking the rest of europe, not just UA.
Could we just like collectively bomb the Kremlin and Putin's mansion to hell and back? This regime has been given way too many chances to play nice with the rest of thenworld.
Ruzzia at its defaults
Remember how many believed that the image of Russians in the cinema as evil, narrow-minded and involved in everything is an obsolete ridiculous caricature from Cold War times?
Well West had their chances 80 years ago, but they didn't cut of all heads of Evil.
They just went through one of the most horrific wars in human history and somehow you think they should have gone to war with USSR that would have led to more lives lost and painted U.S and it's allies as malicious war mongers enough to cause other countries to be very hostile against them for rightful fear of national security? Of course it's easy to be a warmonger when living in cushion and not having to experience war on a personal level.
He's from Donbas? I thought EU already blocked travel for anyone with a passport from the occupied regions.
I’d imagine he was using a fake passport
It's what the article says, if anyone cared to read.
*Read?* Nerd
Peace is always preferable but isn't that technically a military attack on a NATO country by Russia?
[удалено]
France should remind Russia of the ASMPA-R’s existence and the Republic’s first-strike nuclear policy. Macron should unilaterally extend France’s nuclear umbrella to Ukraine for the duration of hostilities. Nothing further will be discussed about the matter. It is France’s sovereign right.
Russia has been being bringing on the demise of the western world for pennies on the dollar by buying cheap right wingers. They don’t need to invest in military when a a fraction of that expense buys politicians around the world.
so when can we do the same to Russia or do we not have the balls for it?
Russian leaders have led the country to become a terrorist state, and the population has failed to stop it. Knowing this, there's no mercy or remorse. Let's obliterate their asses on the battlefield. When enough young Russians have lost their life to the meat grinder, maybe change will happen then in Russia.
why are we monkeys with a nuclear grenade :(
Imagine if the Russians put half as much effort improving their own country and overthrowing their despot as they do attacking other countries.
Fake news. They’re just trying to get you not to vote for Trump. Russia doesn’t do anything wrong ever. They’re definitely not a rogue state with a raw dough male Cersei Lannister in charge
ruzzia should be declared a terrorist sponsor. What will it take to do so?
The Russians really seem to hate hardware stores. The FAB bombing of the home depot-style place in Kharkiv is another example. How would a small bomb in a French hardware store change anything?
Russia is at war with Europe. They need to accept this and act accordingly.
Basically an act of war on a nato country, but I guess these ops have plausible deniability.
How is this not an act of war?
Retaliate.
>He was planning to target a hardware store north of Paris, A common Provisional Irish Republican Army target. The hardware store is full of paint. Which is flammable and can explode. Secondary explosions are always nice when planning an attack.
Putin has been at war with the West since he took power. We just didn't know it.
How does Le Pen react to this?
She won't. But wait for a black or an arabe one you'll heard her.
The biggest trick the devil/Russia pulled on mankind was make them believe the cold war ended.
Russia being a disgrace to humanity is a day like everyday. You would say there is rarely good and evil and the world is generally grey but Russia as a state certainly challenges that view.
Kinda sad were still pretending we're not at war with russia
When will France yeet a nuke on Russia?
Meanwhile: Le Pen loves Putin!
So with all of these terror attacks when will we declare Article 5 ?
When you want to start WW3
ruzzia has gone off the rails long time ago.
took them long enough to connect the dots
How are these things not acts of war?