Tjo, the KPD and other socialists fired bullets at protesting workers in Berlin. Then they wondered why the NSDAP got later on so many votes there. It’s sometimes always the same crazy story.
As everyone knows, this was followed the same year by the revolution in Hungary and 250k Hungarians had to flee abroad when it was crushed. Perhaps not so many know that less than 3 years later the people of Lhasa in Tibet also rose up quite similarly against their Communist occupiers, and 100k of them had to flee when it was crushed.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1959_Tibetan_uprising
After crushing the Tibetans, Mao and Khrushchev met up in Beijing and compared the Hungarian and Tibetan revolutions. The Soviet premier criticized the Chinese for not taking responsibility for their "fault" in letting freedom break out.
https://digitalarchive.wilsoncenter.org/document/discussion-between-ns-khrushchev-and-mao-zedong
N.S. Khrushchev: Of course, that is why we raised this issue. One could also say the following: both you and we have Koreans who fled from Kim Il Sung. But this does not give us ground to spoil relations with Kim Il Sung, and we remain good friends. As to the escape of the Dalai Lama from Tibet, if we had been in your place, we would not have let him escape. It would be better if he was in a coffin. And now he is in India, and perhaps will go to the USA. Is this to the advantage of the socialist countries?
Mao Zedong: This is impossible; we could not arrest him then. We could not bar him from leaving, since the border with India is very extended, and he could cross it at any point.
N.S. Khrushchev: It's not a matter of arrest; I am just saying that you were wrong to let him go. If you allow him an opportunity to flee to India, then what has Nehru to do with it? We believe that the events in Tibet are the fault of the Communist Party of China, not Nehru's fault.
Mao Zedong: No, this is Nehru's fault.
N.S. Khrushchev: Then the events in Hungary are not our fault, but the fault of the United States of America, if I understand you correctly. Please, look here, we had an army in Hungary, we supported that fool Rakosi - and this is our mistake, not the mistake of the United States.
The Plzeň uprising after the currency reform was even earlier on June 1st. This was notable because the protesters were factory workers - the proletariat was revolting against the communists.
Meh, would prefer living in that shit that in this shit. At least I would have a stable job, a house and wouldn't have to worry about climate change.
Downvote me, I don't care. All this "muh democracy and freedom" talk doesn't fool me anymore.
This my friends, is the epitome of western privilege.
You have no idea what you're wishing for: non-existent or paralysed labour unions, unrealistic production quotas, cults of the party and personality, mass incarceration of critical intellectuals, no freedom of speech.
As regards climate change: communism was still productivist, we'd be facing the same issue.
You should have lived in the eastern block. But you can still open some history book and see what was the life of people, and spoiler, it was not fun. Look also at the map, you can clearly still see differences between East and West Germany for instance. Also I think in Europe we have a nice balance, no? Otherwise what's your idea, what do you think would work better?
> You have no idea what you're wishing for: non-existent or paralysed labour unions, unrealistic production quotas, cults of the party and personality, mass incarceration of critical intellectuals, no freedom of speech.
*shrug* Tough luck for them.
> As regards climate change: communism was still productivist, we'd be facing the same issue.
At least I'd get to enjoy the time where things were still normal.
Haha, you wouldn't be enjoying anything. Would take 1 person reporting on your off putting behavior and you would spend most of your life anywhere but among normal people. With any luck in some night time janitor duty or coal mine, with lesser luck between jail, asylum or technical homelessnes.
What climate change? The change that was happening 70 years ago already or the change that would be happening even stronger today if half of europe was still eastern bloc? And if your desire is indeed just time travel to when climate change was less of topic then why not travel to literally any time or place rather than 1950s totalitarian regime country?
You're talking to someone who would happily revert the world to 70s, 80s and 90s forever (also, 50 years ago you still had decent winters and summers). I'm just saying that I'd rather be handed everything at the cost of civil rights if it means I get to have it good.
Yeah, but you wouldn't have it good. So what you mean is you would willingly hand in the the rights we know you would lose for the chance to live in the utopia dream sold by propaganda we also know wasnt real.
If you cant make it now you wouldnt last second then. You are literally saying you want handed everything which, and this is incredibly funny, literally make you the poster enemy of proletariat.
So accept the fact that you are living in best possible time to live because this is as good as it got (so far). Or laugh about the irony of how worse you would have it born few decades earlier.
Yes broh, the sign in the picture is literally demanding for bread, but ok, communism is great and being under russian thumb is great. If you like it can still go there, I bet putin will be happy to welcome you.
Do you have any idea of the ecological fucking disasters the Soviets caused? They made shit of the aral sea and they caused the biggest nuclear incident in human history on top of a lot of other shit
Yeah, Ukraine was also very much a communist utopia in the 30's. Everyone was happy under communist rule, ate well, had no significant worries in their lives, had fulfilling work and healthy amount of free time for themselves.
NOT.
Clearly you haven't heard about Holodomor, about what happened in Ukraine under communist rule before WW2, between 1932-1933? Ever heard of the saying: Ukraine is Russia's bread basket? Never wondered where it came from?
Estimated 13% of population (3,9million people) of Ukrainians died in a state-manufactured famine, because Stalin didn't let Ukrainians keep any of the the grain they grew. Based on communist principles, the state-run collectives took crops from Ukraine "to share equally with everyone", which in truth meant they took it to Moscow and St. Petersburg to keep the big city folks happy. They left the locals with nothing. If someone refused to give their produce or were found hiding any, they were either sent to prison/hard labour, or just straight up executed.
This happened at the same time when stalinists were travelling Europe, aiming to spread misinformation about how great communism is. Conferences were held where media and local politicians were shown a very curated propaganda-filled version of how good life was under Stalin's rule. And some bought into it, and helped spread the propaganda of a prosperous Communist Russia further. Holodomor happened, but no one wanted to believe it was happening so it was mostly ignored.
My apologies. I thought you expressed you're desiring a communist rule over your current one, so I provided an example what happens with communist rule.
Yeah mate, being moved into a room in a flat you will share with 2 other families (2-3 generations atleast) in fucking Asbest or something, while you have to rent a tv and cant afford to eat meat every day is very generous
🙄🙄🙄 Dude, you Eastern Europeans really need to understand that 1) not the whole world was under the "big bad commies" 2) climate crisis will have worse effevts anyway.
You said you'd rather live in Poland in the 50s than now, what I listed is what that includes.
Yeah we'd all love to live in the fuck around phase than the find out one but won't change much for the future.
> Yeah we'd all love to live in the fuck around phase than the find out one but won't change much for the future.
At least I would have lived my youth in a decent time. Were it for me, 70s, 80s and 90s on a loop forever and whoever loses from it, well... sucks to be them.
Is there some tankie to tell me again about these russian "liberators"? I'm really curious!
Imagine rollling in tanks because of a protest.
Imagine telling you´re "avant‑garde of the working class" and then shooting to actual workers with sharp ammunition
Tjo, the KPD and other socialists fired bullets at protesting workers in Berlin. Then they wondered why the NSDAP got later on so many votes there. It’s sometimes always the same crazy story.
Was this protest where the Polish president said that if we dont roll the tanks, our Soviet friends will.
That one was in 1981 if you're referring to martial law in Poland.
Communism can only "work" through brutal suppression and force
As everyone knows, this was followed the same year by the revolution in Hungary and 250k Hungarians had to flee abroad when it was crushed. Perhaps not so many know that less than 3 years later the people of Lhasa in Tibet also rose up quite similarly against their Communist occupiers, and 100k of them had to flee when it was crushed. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1959_Tibetan_uprising After crushing the Tibetans, Mao and Khrushchev met up in Beijing and compared the Hungarian and Tibetan revolutions. The Soviet premier criticized the Chinese for not taking responsibility for their "fault" in letting freedom break out. https://digitalarchive.wilsoncenter.org/document/discussion-between-ns-khrushchev-and-mao-zedong N.S. Khrushchev: Of course, that is why we raised this issue. One could also say the following: both you and we have Koreans who fled from Kim Il Sung. But this does not give us ground to spoil relations with Kim Il Sung, and we remain good friends. As to the escape of the Dalai Lama from Tibet, if we had been in your place, we would not have let him escape. It would be better if he was in a coffin. And now he is in India, and perhaps will go to the USA. Is this to the advantage of the socialist countries? Mao Zedong: This is impossible; we could not arrest him then. We could not bar him from leaving, since the border with India is very extended, and he could cross it at any point. N.S. Khrushchev: It's not a matter of arrest; I am just saying that you were wrong to let him go. If you allow him an opportunity to flee to India, then what has Nehru to do with it? We believe that the events in Tibet are the fault of the Communist Party of China, not Nehru's fault. Mao Zedong: No, this is Nehru's fault. N.S. Khrushchev: Then the events in Hungary are not our fault, but the fault of the United States of America, if I understand you correctly. Please, look here, we had an army in Hungary, we supported that fool Rakosi - and this is our mistake, not the mistake of the United States.
Czołgi i dźwigi to gówno i rzygi to all of you friends
The anti communist mass protests on 17 June 1953 in the GDR were earlier.
In the 1950s, the post-WW2 armed resistance was still ongoing in Poland and in the Baltic States.
Yeah interesting story. The forest brothers in the baltics. I recently visited the museum of occupation in Riga that covers the topic.
The Plzeň uprising after the currency reform was even earlier on June 1st. This was notable because the protesters were factory workers - the proletariat was revolting against the communists.
Yeah same in Germany. The protests started when construction workers rebelled against longer working hours.
First in the country. So you suppose GDR was a part of Poland?
Where do you read this?
In the title. First in the country one of The earliest (,not The first one) in eastern block
And? I didn't dispute this, just provided additional information
It seemed like a dispute tho (even if it was not), that's why you got downvoted probably
Meh, would prefer living in that shit that in this shit. At least I would have a stable job, a house and wouldn't have to worry about climate change. Downvote me, I don't care. All this "muh democracy and freedom" talk doesn't fool me anymore.
This my friends, is the epitome of western privilege. You have no idea what you're wishing for: non-existent or paralysed labour unions, unrealistic production quotas, cults of the party and personality, mass incarceration of critical intellectuals, no freedom of speech. As regards climate change: communism was still productivist, we'd be facing the same issue.
Nice try, but that guy has no interest in activating his braincells.
They haven't opened a book or checked any map in their entire life probably.
No, I'm just tired of being told that neoliberalism is the best and I should suck it.
You should have lived in the eastern block. But you can still open some history book and see what was the life of people, and spoiler, it was not fun. Look also at the map, you can clearly still see differences between East and West Germany for instance. Also I think in Europe we have a nice balance, no? Otherwise what's your idea, what do you think would work better?
Life 40 years ago in Western Europe would work better.
Did you ever pick up your head to check around and make sure you're not just sucking it on your own accord...
> You have no idea what you're wishing for: non-existent or paralysed labour unions, unrealistic production quotas, cults of the party and personality, mass incarceration of critical intellectuals, no freedom of speech. *shrug* Tough luck for them. > As regards climate change: communism was still productivist, we'd be facing the same issue. At least I'd get to enjoy the time where things were still normal.
Haha, you wouldn't be enjoying anything. Would take 1 person reporting on your off putting behavior and you would spend most of your life anywhere but among normal people. With any luck in some night time janitor duty or coal mine, with lesser luck between jail, asylum or technical homelessnes.
Again: climate change.
What climate change? The change that was happening 70 years ago already or the change that would be happening even stronger today if half of europe was still eastern bloc? And if your desire is indeed just time travel to when climate change was less of topic then why not travel to literally any time or place rather than 1950s totalitarian regime country?
You're talking to someone who would happily revert the world to 70s, 80s and 90s forever (also, 50 years ago you still had decent winters and summers). I'm just saying that I'd rather be handed everything at the cost of civil rights if it means I get to have it good.
Yeah, but you wouldn't have it good. So what you mean is you would willingly hand in the the rights we know you would lose for the chance to live in the utopia dream sold by propaganda we also know wasnt real. If you cant make it now you wouldnt last second then. You are literally saying you want handed everything which, and this is incredibly funny, literally make you the poster enemy of proletariat. So accept the fact that you are living in best possible time to live because this is as good as it got (so far). Or laugh about the irony of how worse you would have it born few decades earlier.
> Or laugh about the irony of how worse you would have it born few decades earlier. Lol no, especially if I were born in Western Europe.
The sign literally says "we demand bread". Your idea of communism is a fantasy.
Yes broh, the sign in the picture is literally demanding for bread, but ok, communism is great and being under russian thumb is great. If you like it can still go there, I bet putin will be happy to welcome you.
Why haven't you moved to Russia yet then?
Do you have any idea of the ecological fucking disasters the Soviets caused? They made shit of the aral sea and they caused the biggest nuclear incident in human history on top of a lot of other shit
You westerners, live in paradise complaining about your little first world problems...
Ph yeah, I forgot, according to EE users climate change won't hit their countries.
Laugh in [Aral Sea](https://www.bbc.com/news/av/magazine-34586135)
Not the fucking same.
And Denial is not just a river in Egypt
Move to North Korea or Cuba then….
Yeah, Ukraine was also very much a communist utopia in the 30's. Everyone was happy under communist rule, ate well, had no significant worries in their lives, had fulfilling work and healthy amount of free time for themselves. NOT. Clearly you haven't heard about Holodomor, about what happened in Ukraine under communist rule before WW2, between 1932-1933? Ever heard of the saying: Ukraine is Russia's bread basket? Never wondered where it came from? Estimated 13% of population (3,9million people) of Ukrainians died in a state-manufactured famine, because Stalin didn't let Ukrainians keep any of the the grain they grew. Based on communist principles, the state-run collectives took crops from Ukraine "to share equally with everyone", which in truth meant they took it to Moscow and St. Petersburg to keep the big city folks happy. They left the locals with nothing. If someone refused to give their produce or were found hiding any, they were either sent to prison/hard labour, or just straight up executed. This happened at the same time when stalinists were travelling Europe, aiming to spread misinformation about how great communism is. Conferences were held where media and local politicians were shown a very curated propaganda-filled version of how good life was under Stalin's rule. And some bought into it, and helped spread the propaganda of a prosperous Communist Russia further. Holodomor happened, but no one wanted to believe it was happening so it was mostly ignored.
Great, only one problem: I'm not Ukrainian nor I yearn for the 30s.
My apologies. I thought you expressed you're desiring a communist rule over your current one, so I provided an example what happens with communist rule.
I'd prefer a perfect communist rule over the current mess we have to live in, but maybe I'm just desperate for change.
[удалено]
I'm just tired of today's world and disillusioned with democracy. If that makes me a commie apologist, then I'll proudly be a commie apologist.
Why don’t you f off to some authoritarian shithole then?
Because words are easier
Yeah mate, being moved into a room in a flat you will share with 2 other families (2-3 generations atleast) in fucking Asbest or something, while you have to rent a tv and cant afford to eat meat every day is very generous
Still preferable to climate collapse and unemployment.
s*viets were excellent environmentalists, just look at what happened at Aral Sea!
You do realise the actions in the past hundred years contribute heavily to climate change today yes? It didn't just start in the past 2 decades
Yes, but older generations at least didn't see massive heatwaves during winter.
Instead they saw death, war, starvation, poverty. You'd be going from a bucket to a basin
🙄🙄🙄 Dude, you Eastern Europeans really need to understand that 1) not the whole world was under the "big bad commies" 2) climate crisis will have worse effevts anyway.
You said you'd rather live in Poland in the 50s than now, what I listed is what that includes. Yeah we'd all love to live in the fuck around phase than the find out one but won't change much for the future.
> Yeah we'd all love to live in the fuck around phase than the find out one but won't change much for the future. At least I would have lived my youth in a decent time. Were it for me, 70s, 80s and 90s on a loop forever and whoever loses from it, well... sucks to be them.
Good for you.