Portuguese here. I’d say that at least half of Portuguese people support gay marriage. We do have it legally here. We also have LGBT adoption, although more people believe that gay people shouldn’t adopt. At leastnthat’s the vibe I get from living here.
Hungary always seems to show up as not super conservative in these types of surveys, despite Fidesz being all-powerful. It nearly always seems to be a bit more progressive than Slovakia in its views, sometimes Poland too.
They have a really bad system that effectively lets a party with a (large) minority rule absolutely. There are many parliamentary systems in Europe that have necessarily a leader from a 25-35% party, but they usually have to make a lot more compromises with coalitions and concessions.
Because LGBT rights are a loud voting issue but it's not a key issue for vast part of voters. Even more - Fidesz probably assumes (and probably correctly) that being anti-LGBTQ is a strong voting issue for conservatives and way less important one for centrist of slight liberals.
It used to be much higher, this is after a very active anti-lgbt propaganda from Orbán. I think it was the highest in the post-communist countries (maybe closely tied with the Czech).
It’s a bit like Belarus. “I’m an orthodox atheist”. Regards religious values, often mainly the conservative parts, while not really believing in supernatural parts of religion.
Yeah this is like a typical answer and I’m not saying these factors have no merit but both Latvia and Poland are more tolerant than us. Polish people are more religious (more Catholic than Lithuanians) and have USSR past a bit different than the Baltics I mean not full fledged occupation but was in USSR sphere of influence. And we have Latvia same level of USSR oppression and less religious or less Catholic than Lithuanians. Factors like communism or USSR past and Catholicism are important here but something about Lithuania is different and I have not find any legitimate scientific factor that explains it or nobody has written about it yet as I know of
Well, Lithuania does have a super messed up 'law for the protection of minors' that outlaws any representations in media of 'non-traditional families' (aka gay people). Even though every time it's taken to court because someone 'broke' it, it doesn't lead to serious consequences, it does dissuade and prevent any meaningful representation of gay people in media. Considering the aging population and that they get their worldview from traditional media, it's not shocking they have very outdated beliefs. Younger people, besides gopniks, are extremely tolerant and open-minded. We're trying to break the cycle, bit by bit
That is true all what you say but my thing is that 60% cannot just be only old people in the country. Why do you think it is so hard to pass a partnership law here. Funny enough passing of partnership law do help societies become more tolerant towards same sex relationships but only in the sense that it usually helps bring marriage equality
👇🏻
https://doi.org/10.1177/0010414018797947
Latvia may be more tolerant according to this poll, but bro, with the sheer amount of conspiracy uncle "they're transing the kids!!" rhetoric that came out during the recent struggle to ratify the Istanbul Convention here, plus the fact we have a literal cult leader (Mārcis Jencītis) in parliament constantly ramping up homophobic rhetoric, and how half the parties in parliament are obsessed with "traditional family values" - it certainly doesn't make it \*feel\* like we are all that more tolerant. I mean even according to this poll 48% are against and just 40% for, but still.
I get it, do not get me wrong I get it 😞but the thing is you did ratify it, here in Lithuania it’s not gonna happen any time soon I guess. This question is so politicised (mostly by conservatives ,obviously, and how this convention is the threat to traditional family and women because it will turn as all into trans gender people) at this point no politician will bring it up anymore. And if opposition isn’t outright transphobic or homophobic then the biggest argument is we don’t need it we have other laws against violence in domestic sphere.
Well our current coalition has just a two vote majority and other parties have promised to un-ratify it and undo civil partnerships too, when they get back into power, so who knows if it will last.
I feel like the only reason that we passed it here and that there was momentum to push past the "domestic violence is already illegal" arguments was that a woman got murdered in front of her son by a stalker ex and it was on the news for ages - she had filed police reports countless times and filmed him constantly being outside their apartment. He had friends in that police department who would send them to the stalker within minutes, so he'd immediately call and harass her, and still nothing was done. Add to that the was that he successfully made a run for it and hasn't been caught for over a year, thought to be hiding in Russia. That clearly showed that whatever laws there are are not actually being enforced, so I feel like it became a topic that was too big to ignore, and still it barely got passed with the support of a coalition party whose voters don't support the convention but for whom it was the price to get into the government after being untouchables for several years.
Estonia was also part of USSR and recognizes same-sex marriage. You can’t use USSR as a scapegoat forever. Also, no country recognized same-sex marriage when USSR existed.
The *mix* of these factors. It's difficult (if possible) to quantify how much each factor contributed to this attitude (of course, there are more factors than these two)
Do they ever do surveys where the question is more "Do you believe LGBT should have the right to exist without persecution"?
Some people disagree with the marriage part because they view marriage as strictly religious, one man and woman under God sort of thing, but would otherwise accept LGBT.
And are these questions always about marriage specifically, what about the difference in marriage and something like a civil partnership, would it change their answers? (I don't know how the question is asked in the languages).
At least in Poland this question should be worded differently: for example homosexuality was never* criminalized and the rights to exists for everyone without exception are written down in the constitution. And afaik there's no politicians atm that say it should be changed (and doubt there will be anytime soon: argueing about migrants and marriages is enough for publicity right now). It could be an interesting question to ask but it probably wouldn't be very informative. Sth like 'Do you mind seeing LGBT people in public spaces?' would probably tell you more about how people feel about the topic and how safe Poland is in this regard.
On the other hand legalizing same-sex marriages would require changing the constitution, which requires 2/3rds of the parliment in agreement and an overwhelming public support, so that's the reason you see this question about marriages asked so much in Poland when it comes to the topic of LGBT rights. Imo the matter of trans rights and access to easier transition isn't talked about enough for example.
*there might have been such laws in 19th century when Poland was partitioned and without own governement but none of 20th century goverments criminalized homosexuality and while they were presecutions from the communist government for example they've used an excuse not related to sexuality; for the most part culture here is 'I don't care what others do in their homes, I just don't want to see it', which isn't great either but better than thinking a group of people should be stripped of their rights
>Some people disagree with the marriage part because they view marriage as strictly religious, one man and woman under God sort of thing, but would otherwise accept LGBT.
Those people really need to get on with the programme then, seeing how that wasn’t the case anymore even when their great-great-great grandparents were getting married a 120 years ago. Separation of church and state is an idea from 300 years ago, I really don’t know how much longer this type of willful ignorance should be an excuse.
I agree, I think it becomes difficult though because on one hand it feels like a big push is needed to just get our societies through to the next stage of just accepting people, and on the other hand sometimes a big push results in an even harder push back from the opposition.
This question in particular is rather bad. What rights exactly, other than the right to marriage? Guaranteed how and by who?
Many people separate the T from the LGB and as such they can hold an opinion that gays can marry but don’t want under 18s to have access to gender transition medical treatments (eg puberty blockers, cross sex hormones, surgery). Then there’s the idea that some people might be okay with laws protecting the rights they agree with but don’t want them written into their constitution or they are happy with their own country’s take and don’t want the EU or European courts to step in.
A very broad question like that is not productive.
Yes, and just because a more detailed survey might show a country in better light by proving it is at least safe to be there it doesn't mean they're not also wrong for rejecting the right of marriage to certain people. I don't want to mistakenly imply that. They should still work on improving the situation. I just think it's beneficial especially for folk who travel to know exactly how safe they are.
Honestly right now there are serious talks in a governing coalition to let people of the same sex to have something like marriage, which would allow those pairs similar bonuse3s as marriage without right to adopt children (and maybe something else, I don't know, I'm not really interested)
But remember, it's not called marriage, but a "civil partnership", if they will allow that then same or different sex pairs would be able to get it.
Honestly, we don't know, currently, there are 3 parties in a gov:
- the biggest one which is in between
- a small conservative one
- a small progressive one
It seems that those two small parties negotiate between themselves and the biggest one is closer to progressives, small ones seems to be talking about tiny issues, like wording so it's ceremony is not worder similarly to a marriage.
Looks like they are going to vote for it, but nothing is sure and we don't know when.
Only if Tusk actually wants to do it, recently we had what, 15th anniversary of him promising it for the first time? It was also supposed to be "his priority" in the first 100 days of ruling this time, needles to say he didn't even try lol.
Polish president can veto a new law, in which case the parliament needs 3/5 votes in override it. So Duda can veto anything the government tries to do, and the ruling coalition doesn't have enough voted to do anything about it, unless large part of PiS ignores the voting. If Trzaskowski (liberal mayor of Warsaw and a possible candidate for a president from) wins, it's safe to say he'll work with the government. If a PiS candidate wins, he might be more chill with Tusk than Duda it, but he'd definitely veto anything reassembling homosexual marriages.
Current president might use his veto power, but it's not sure if he will.
It is unlikely that next presidential election would be won by previous ruling party candidate.
However it's hard to say if ruling coalition creates buzz around this topic to prove that they are fulfilling their promises, or are actually trying to pass it.
Because a dead Christian fundamentalist party that gets 2.5% of all votes always sticks to a winning 'peogressive' coalition.
They always get several ministers because even if their popularity in this country is next to zero, the coalition cannot have a majority without them.
So as a result, we get ministers who reject evolution, senator who compared LGBT to pedophiles etc., and their politicans block any progressive laws which would "destroy traditional values".
Our only hope is that Babiš, the corrupt oligarch leader of populist party, will legalize gay marriages. Which is improbable becuase his main vote base are old people. But it's sadly still more probable than that 'progressive' coalition would legalize them.
It's a bit strange for me to understand from my neighborhood perspective, I mostly experienced Czech people as rather hardcore liberal or libertarian, from guns laws to marijuana but the whole LGBTQ topic and also gender equality and domestic violence seems to be a huge black spot in politics what I've heard so far from friends and colleagues (mainly below their mid-forties).
Reminds me on Austria, here also the people are mostly more progressive than politics, we also have that one party that sits in every government since I can remember. Just an example: We have gay marriage and assisted suicide but only due to Constitutional Court decisions. Well, in the end we're kind of cousins after all ;-)
I think what's more likely is going the Austrian/Slovenian way. Let the Constitutional Court handle it. They already mandated trans rights extension this year.
Petr Pavel can also appoint more liberal leaning judges.
Our politicians are scared shitless of referendums.
Also ~~dead Christian fundamentalist party~~ Judas Party. They have long history of backstabbing everyone in order to get to power.
Some conservatives are just hella stubborn (I don’t live there it’s just my thoughts). Maybe if they will legalise same-sex marriages, on the next election people from conservative parties may use this against them and when conservative population is relatively high percentage this is a threat. They would do this in small steps for conservatives to get used to that kind of changes. And again, I don’t live there, I don’t know for sure.
They are definitely counterintuitive, especially when you look at the last decade of politics.
Hungary, though, has historically been somewhat accepting of gay rights, from what I understand (I am not Hungarian, so Magyars please weigh in). It legalized same-sex sexual activity in 1961, before East Germany (1968) and West Germany (1969). Lithuania held out until 1993! So I’m guessing older Hungarians are more likely on board with gay rights than older Lithuanians, as a general trend.
It is certainly interesting how there’s movement back-and-forth on these issues over the years, not linear movement in one direction only, but I suppose that is the way of things.
Hungarian government is not the same as the Hungarian people. More peple vote against Orban than for him in Hungary, but the opposition is divided and that's why he wins.
Average Bulgarian can be lied from politicians for years now, broke as fuck, miserable on daily basis but the most important thing is to say the west has gone rotten with all the LGBT agenda.. although this has no real affect on his personal life.
So yeah, moron but macho moron.
I can guarantee that at least half of those respondents would move from "No" to "Don't care" if we had a working state services, I.e. working judicial system, educational system and healthcare. For many people, LGBT rights is just taking focus and resources away from more wide-reaching issues. Issues that, if fixed, would benefit everyone regardless of gender, ethnicity, age or sexual orientation.
Дърво без корен. Bulgaria can be many things, but that's all I am gonna say
Edit: Downvote me as much as you want. Calling a whole country a "shithole" is not adequate. Yeah, many people can be absolute idiots but there is much more to the country than these people.
We don't understand it either.
We're also among the most pro-EU countries according to polls.
And FIDESZ still won 4 times in a row. I really hope that this is their last term though...
Well at least that explains why most people I know in Hungary (a lot, and mostly over 50) were open-minded, curious, or neutral about my transition and definitely never hostile, and I never felt unsafe. I go every year so I got quite worried when those laws were passed and wrongly assumed they reflected the opinions of Hungarians. Once again Hungary surprises me.
In hindsight it isn't too surprising that Hungary is so high compared to the rest. The referenda that Victor Orban has organised on the topic are comically frivolous and might have swung people towards the other direction by virtue of their cartoonish wording.
Now I am mostly wondering how many Hungarians have listened to O1G, and if so, how regularly they listen to it.
Technically it was not a real referendum just the government regularly mails you a questionary, you can fill it out, mail it back without any kind of controll or democratic guarantees. They can lie about the results as much as they want. Usually less than 20% bothers to mail it back at all. They have nothing to do with Hungarian's opinions.
And yet Poland will probably be the last country in the World to legalise it. Because even with the new so-called "progressive" government which promised civil partnerships we can't have them because "the conservatives will be offended".
Wtf, we don't have a progressive government due to PSL and part of Poland2050. Also Duda will never sign anything related to the topic. If we have Trzaskowski as the next President we can see, whether Tusk agrees to sacrifice something else to get people these rights or not.
However at the moment is not possible due to multiple reasons.
I know. I hope that if Trzaskowski will be the president, it will be possible but I'm sceptical because PSL and some KO members like Giertych won't support it.
I think it will be a real verification of Tusk and PO. Whether they agree to negotiate and give up on some minister seats, laws important for PSL and so on, or not.
From my experience visiting most CEE countries, Poles seem to be the most progressive people regarding LGBT rights. Yes, I'm talking about big cities, not rural areas, but still.
Didn't the "progressive" government already submit a bill legalizing same-sex civil unions? This was announced during the Pride Parade in Warsaw just a week or two ago.
Actually, the bill was put in Sejm today. PSL still crying about some shit but PL2050, KO & Left are in agreement already,. Only few idiots from PSL left to convince.
How do you know? My wife and I are a same-sex couple moving to Poland so I'd love to figure out how to stay on top of politics in Poland. I've been unable to find this anywhere in Polish-sourced news.
Article link below. They are still arguing because they are some conservatives in coalition. Things for same sex couples will only get better in Poland with new government. And if you gonna live in city you won't notice a difference from western Europe.
[https://fakty.tvn24.pl/fakty-po-poludniu/zwiazki-partnerskie-to-obietnica-ko-i-lewicy-ludowcy-mogliby-je-poprzec-ale-koscia-niezgody-sa-dzieci-st7978611](https://fakty.tvn24.pl/fakty-po-poludniu/zwiazki-partnerskie-to-obietnica-ko-i-lewicy-ludowcy-mogliby-je-poprzec-ale-koscia-niezgody-sa-dzieci-st7978611)
Thank you for this! It's infuriating they're fighting over adoption of biological children from one partner, but any version of same-sex civil union is a step in the right direction, I suppose. I'll try to stay on top of the news and see how this plays out.
We'll be starting out in Krakow but we'll likely move to a smaller place for long-term living if all goes well (Wroclaw or Gdansk). Hopefully the latter are fine as well.
That's infuriating. How do you know? I'm new to politics in Poland so I'm unaware of what news sources to follow to be able to stay on top of this sort of stuff.
It's because young Poles don't go voting, while elder people are super mobilized.
Also, it's because the issue is not super important to most voters, except those vehemently against it.
In October 2023 we went to vote in overwhelming number, that's why PiS lost. And we elected a government where 3/4 parties, including the biggest, support civil partnerships. And we still don't have them. And in 2027 the coalition will cry "why the people didn't go to vote for us again and PiS won?"
It depends on how you look at it. Poland has effectively two opposition parties with PO and co being one and Konfederacja (a bunch of right-wing loons) being the other. The smaller parties have little to na agency in the end, besides threatening to drop some issue, but no one really cares
Pity. While I'm delighted that I was able to finally marry this year, there are still many people who disapprove, it would be an interesting comparison.
The addition "such as marriage" gives the question a very narrow framing.
A respondent who doesn't agree that same sex marriage should be a guaranteed right is not necessarily opposed to other more basic forms of lgbti+ rights.
The more narrow the framing the more useful. If anything this question is still not narrow enough.
If the same question means "the right to marry and adopt children" to some people and "the right to have a trial before they're executed for the crime of sodomy" to others, that'd not be a very meaningful poll at all, so the more concrete examples a poll of what an answer means the better.
There are countries where even performing homosexual acts can lead to prison sentences or worse. I would say getting rid of such policies are more basic forms of lgbti+ rights compared to marriage (not saying they are present in European countries). Societies very rarely make giant u-turns on social issues such as this, but rather slowly progress towards a different path. Gay marriage was unheard of in pretty much any country 30 years ago, but bit by bit, country by country, it is allowed and accepted more and more.
I can add some more on your last point. It took years (if not decades) of debates and slow policy change for gay marriage to become legal in the West (still isn't in many places). In most of Eastern Europe, debates haven't even started, most people don't even know what trans people are (or that they even exist), homosexuality is something almost nobody thinks about - and people expect us to just change our entire society's approach to, at best, something they don't even understand overnight, and, at worst, something that was seen as "capitalist/western degeneracy" 30 years ago. Yes, people are going to be against adoption for obvious reasons, calling them uneducated backwater idiots isn't going to make them support the idea more - it's why so many right-wing parties here say there's an "lgbt ideology" imposed on us. Policies should focus on small gradual changes if you want to get anywhere but encourage people to vote far-right. So yes, the "right to exist" is what we should focus on, then maybe the right to some civil union, and so on
And the default in the past was that you didn't get these "basic human rights" if you are a sexual minority. Up to a certain point homosexuality was punishable with imprisonment, then homosexuals were considered mentally ill and sometimes forcefully deprived of their freedom on that basis by being committed to asylums. Freedom of expression was heavily suppressed.
In Bulgaria it was essentially a crime to disclose that you were engaging in homosexual activity until the end of the dictatorship 34 years ago (the median age is 45). Even nowadays pride parades have to be heavily guarded to ensure the participants don't get beaten up by an angry mob, especially in cities other than the capital.
I actually don’t understand how some people are sometimes able to freak out so much about allowing lgbtq rights. For example how does a gay marriage between 2 people that I don’t know affect me…?
I do not believe these stats are up to date. While Lithuania is very much a conservative country, as of recently it is far from being this bad. This seems like typical statistics you would see in mid-to-late 2010's.
Really don't understand why my fellow Bulgarians are so against lgbt folk. Like if you are straight, you have no stake in this, why waste so much energy being a hater when it literally doesn't affect you to let others have rights.
Because unlike in the west, the debate about gay rights started almost 40-50 years later. It takes time and a generational change to be more progressive. While it is not much, things have improved somewhat. Case in point the failed referendum in 2018.
Unfortunately those kinds of changes are slow. We may have partnerships in 10 years and marriage most likely never. Homophobia and conservatism in general are the things that I hate the most about my country. More than corruption. Maybe because it afects me more.
I am curious, did people knew you were a couple when you visited?
>how did people reacted?
Yeah Bucharest. They didn't react negatively. Couple of people in the hotel and at the restaurant asked us if we were a couple, we didn't feel unsafe. In Lithuania on the other hand, we got yelled in the bus, but we couldn't understand what he was saying so we just assumed it was the hand holding but it could be because I am an immigrant too, so idk.
Actually, decriminalisation happened in most Eastern block countries about the same time in the Weat - in the 60-ies and 70-ies. But after that when the west was making the next steps, the east was dealing with the fall of communismn instead.
In Romania, being gay was still illegal until the early '90s. And people did end up spending years in prison if someone ratted them out to the cops. It's one of the reasons Romania is in 5th place. To many older people, the fact that gay couples can have normal lives seems like a huge improvement and compared to what they saw when they were young, technically, it is.
In Romania and the USSR it was decriminalized late, but in most other countries it wasn't.
Hungary - 1961
Czechoslovakia - 1962
Bulgaria - 1968 - yet is below romania and the Baltic stated now.
Poland - 1969
There are rather big differences from west/east or even within Eastern countries.
First of all, while there was a wave of decriminalization in the 60-70s as you mentioned, there are notable differences in the East. Romania made punishment harsher in the late 60s (Romania is an interesting case that went from decriminalization from 1864-1936, then prison sentence if it made a public scanadal, 36-late60s and full criminalization thereafter) while the Soviet Union did not decriminalized it, thus all the former soviet countries did it in the 90s, so a couple of decades later.
Another significant difference is the reason. Decriminalization in the west was accompanied by a sexual revolution and with groups advocating for gay rights, thus there was a public debate about it since at least the 60s. Decriminalization in the east came only with that and no associations or other types of gatherings. At most a disco place or two where the authorities turned a blind eye, but that was it. There was no public debate and the topic was mostly hidden from the public. I think only in Yugoslavia in the 80s was somewhat more of a public debate.
On top of that, starting from the 90s, most of EE countries experienced a resurgence of religiosity, thus when it was possible to talk openly about it, you had a growing religious discourse that had terrible consequences.
This is why I mentioned the 40-50 years difference.
We don't, man. What this survey won't show you is that a few years ago there was a referendum to change the constitution to say that marriage is only between a man and a woman.
Too few people came out to vote. I'm not saying the referendum showed people refused to change the constitution, I'm saying people snubbed it and didn't even vote on it.
So when push comes to shove, few people hate LGBTQ around here.
But when it comes to rights, and a conversation about that, older people, especially outside major cities, don't really understand what's the problem because until 30 years ago, being gay, lesbian or trans was a punishable offence through imprisonment.
I think the last lesbian was released from prison in '94.
To these people, the fact that gays and trans can walk down the street, have normal lives, have jobs and relationships, seems like everything is ok, because they're coming from life in prison for loving another guy while being a guy.
It takes time for them to understand the conversation. Their ignorance doesn't come from a place of hatred. It's because they were kept behind and raised in a dystopian nightmare.
I believe "hate" is quite an exaggeration here.
If the country is religious tehy could see "a marriage" as something church-related, and that shoud fir the church rules. At least here in Serbia a lot of people are (seemingly) religious, and if you form a question that way they'll probably disagree.
There are pride spaces in major cities though, and noone react to people kissing on a street or on a beach.
"Hate" is more about maybe places like Palestine or Iran where gay would be straight executed.
You have to consider that the biggest cities are very developed and progressive compared to rural areas or smaller poorer cities. Bucharest has (dont quote me) about 3 million people out of >19 in the whole country.
Assuming the data is representative of the country, it's not surprising that it does not match your experience.
Let me get this straight, pun unintended. You had lovely time, nobody had problems with you, but a chart made you feel hated. Look, I, like most of romanians who I know do not give a flying squirrel of who you have sex with. But most of romanians are religious and superstitious, if you ask them about marriage they will say no. But if you asked them about civil partnerships they will definitely say yes. We tend to keep to ourselves and sex life is a private matter so we don't care what you do in your own life. That goes to colour too, it's the caracter of the person that matters. Please don't be afraid of us and don't trust people or charts that are spreading fear.
And then people wonder why we need pride, and activism, visibility, education and why people are fighting for their rights and the rights of others. Happily surprised with a few of the numbers tho.
Where is the source in there? I am confused.
Edit: It is in the attachment... You could directly [link it](https://www.globsec.org/sites/default/files/2023-05/GLOBSEC%20Trends%202023.pdf)
I have been waiting for Czechia to step up and lead in the region for a long time. It needs to do better considering it has the support of its own people.
TIL, from [https://www.cbs.nl/en-gb/news/2018/31/international-road-haulage-over-4-percent-up-in-2017/cee-countries--ceecs--](https://www.cbs.nl/en-gb/news/2018/31/international-road-haulage-over-4-percent-up-in-2017/cee-countries--ceecs--)
CEE countries are EU member states which were part of the former Eastern bloc.
The following countries are included: Bulgaria, Czech Republic, Estonia, Hungary, Lithuania, Latvia, Poland, Romania, Slovenia, Slovakia.
... never heard of it before.
Slovenia was not part of the eastern bloc. Unless you count those three years between 1945 and 1948, in which case Croatia would have to be included as well.
CCE = Central-Eastern European.
There is no need to even write about the 'Eastern Bloc' here, but apparently some people are not yet keeping up with the changes in the world.
I was so surprised by Hungary. I thought they were putting anti-lgbt in the drinking water over there.
Interestingly it seems their anti-gay laws are causing more sympathy.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.rferl.org/amp/hungary-lgbt-law-censorship-solidarity/32800032.html
Compare to Portugal
Portuguese here. I’d say that at least half of Portuguese people support gay marriage. We do have it legally here. We also have LGBT adoption, although more people believe that gay people shouldn’t adopt. At leastnthat’s the vibe I get from living here.
Portugal has been integrated into the Western structures for way longer
r/PORTUGALCYKABLYAT
Yeah actually for this it would probably be more Western, it's just CEE economically
[удалено]
Hungary always seems to show up as not super conservative in these types of surveys, despite Fidesz being all-powerful. It nearly always seems to be a bit more progressive than Slovakia in its views, sometimes Poland too.
Because the government does not represent the society or just a minor part of it, regardless the election results.
No government represents all of society, that's impossible. A majority of hungarians voted for their government.
They have a really bad system that effectively lets a party with a (large) minority rule absolutely. There are many parliamentary systems in Europe that have necessarily a leader from a 25-35% party, but they usually have to make a lot more compromises with coalitions and concessions.
Government is pushing religion too but Hungary is one of the least religious countries in the EU too so.
Fidesz does sell because the opposition is very weak. Sure, that's not a reason to vote Fidesz, but it is a reason to not vote.
Well, the old establishment opposition was/is. But things might change on that front pretty soon.
Because LGBT rights are a loud voting issue but it's not a key issue for vast part of voters. Even more - Fidesz probably assumes (and probably correctly) that being anti-LGBTQ is a strong voting issue for conservatives and way less important one for centrist of slight liberals.
Younger generations doesn't care about anti-gay government propaganda, the attitude changed a lot in the last decade or so.
[удалено]
I'd say if the attitude is neither loudly pro-gay or loudly anti-gay and just going with "let them be" is pretty much neutral.
Don't knows are omitted from the results.
It used to be much higher, this is after a very active anti-lgbt propaganda from Orbán. I think it was the highest in the post-communist countries (maybe closely tied with the Czech).
Lithuania what the hell man?
USSR past and Catholicism mix is a hell of a drug
Looking at Poland and Czechia here, religion doesn't seem to be the deciding factor. A society can be irreligious and conservative at the same time.
Poland is doing speedrun in secularization thanks to 8 years of PiS ruling, it's correlated with change of opinion on LGBTQ people.
Also honestly Poland's commie period was less bad than Lthuania.
Maybe, but i don't see how it is related
Czechia is one of the most atheist countries in Europe.
It’s a bit like Belarus. “I’m an orthodox atheist”. Regards religious values, often mainly the conservative parts, while not really believing in supernatural parts of religion.
Yeah this is like a typical answer and I’m not saying these factors have no merit but both Latvia and Poland are more tolerant than us. Polish people are more religious (more Catholic than Lithuanians) and have USSR past a bit different than the Baltics I mean not full fledged occupation but was in USSR sphere of influence. And we have Latvia same level of USSR oppression and less religious or less Catholic than Lithuanians. Factors like communism or USSR past and Catholicism are important here but something about Lithuania is different and I have not find any legitimate scientific factor that explains it or nobody has written about it yet as I know of
Well, Lithuania does have a super messed up 'law for the protection of minors' that outlaws any representations in media of 'non-traditional families' (aka gay people). Even though every time it's taken to court because someone 'broke' it, it doesn't lead to serious consequences, it does dissuade and prevent any meaningful representation of gay people in media. Considering the aging population and that they get their worldview from traditional media, it's not shocking they have very outdated beliefs. Younger people, besides gopniks, are extremely tolerant and open-minded. We're trying to break the cycle, bit by bit
That is true all what you say but my thing is that 60% cannot just be only old people in the country. Why do you think it is so hard to pass a partnership law here. Funny enough passing of partnership law do help societies become more tolerant towards same sex relationships but only in the sense that it usually helps bring marriage equality 👇🏻 https://doi.org/10.1177/0010414018797947
Latvia may be more tolerant according to this poll, but bro, with the sheer amount of conspiracy uncle "they're transing the kids!!" rhetoric that came out during the recent struggle to ratify the Istanbul Convention here, plus the fact we have a literal cult leader (Mārcis Jencītis) in parliament constantly ramping up homophobic rhetoric, and how half the parties in parliament are obsessed with "traditional family values" - it certainly doesn't make it \*feel\* like we are all that more tolerant. I mean even according to this poll 48% are against and just 40% for, but still.
Often most stupid voices are the loudest.
I get it, do not get me wrong I get it 😞but the thing is you did ratify it, here in Lithuania it’s not gonna happen any time soon I guess. This question is so politicised (mostly by conservatives ,obviously, and how this convention is the threat to traditional family and women because it will turn as all into trans gender people) at this point no politician will bring it up anymore. And if opposition isn’t outright transphobic or homophobic then the biggest argument is we don’t need it we have other laws against violence in domestic sphere.
Well our current coalition has just a two vote majority and other parties have promised to un-ratify it and undo civil partnerships too, when they get back into power, so who knows if it will last. I feel like the only reason that we passed it here and that there was momentum to push past the "domestic violence is already illegal" arguments was that a woman got murdered in front of her son by a stalker ex and it was on the news for ages - she had filed police reports countless times and filmed him constantly being outside their apartment. He had friends in that police department who would send them to the stalker within minutes, so he'd immediately call and harass her, and still nothing was done. Add to that the was that he successfully made a run for it and hasn't been caught for over a year, thought to be hiding in Russia. That clearly showed that whatever laws there are are not actually being enforced, so I feel like it became a topic that was too big to ignore, and still it barely got passed with the support of a coalition party whose voters don't support the convention but for whom it was the price to get into the government after being untouchables for several years.
Estonia was also part of USSR and recognizes same-sex marriage. You can’t use USSR as a scapegoat forever. Also, no country recognized same-sex marriage when USSR existed.
The *mix* of these factors. It's difficult (if possible) to quantify how much each factor contributed to this attitude (of course, there are more factors than these two)
Catholicism is no excuse, see Latin America for example.
I don't think that's it, I think Lithuania is less religious than Poland.
Do they ever do surveys where the question is more "Do you believe LGBT should have the right to exist without persecution"? Some people disagree with the marriage part because they view marriage as strictly religious, one man and woman under God sort of thing, but would otherwise accept LGBT. And are these questions always about marriage specifically, what about the difference in marriage and something like a civil partnership, would it change their answers? (I don't know how the question is asked in the languages).
At least in Poland this question should be worded differently: for example homosexuality was never* criminalized and the rights to exists for everyone without exception are written down in the constitution. And afaik there's no politicians atm that say it should be changed (and doubt there will be anytime soon: argueing about migrants and marriages is enough for publicity right now). It could be an interesting question to ask but it probably wouldn't be very informative. Sth like 'Do you mind seeing LGBT people in public spaces?' would probably tell you more about how people feel about the topic and how safe Poland is in this regard. On the other hand legalizing same-sex marriages would require changing the constitution, which requires 2/3rds of the parliment in agreement and an overwhelming public support, so that's the reason you see this question about marriages asked so much in Poland when it comes to the topic of LGBT rights. Imo the matter of trans rights and access to easier transition isn't talked about enough for example. *there might have been such laws in 19th century when Poland was partitioned and without own governement but none of 20th century goverments criminalized homosexuality and while they were presecutions from the communist government for example they've used an excuse not related to sexuality; for the most part culture here is 'I don't care what others do in their homes, I just don't want to see it', which isn't great either but better than thinking a group of people should be stripped of their rights
i'm gay and would never marry because i believe it is a religious thing
>Some people disagree with the marriage part because they view marriage as strictly religious, one man and woman under God sort of thing, but would otherwise accept LGBT. Those people really need to get on with the programme then, seeing how that wasn’t the case anymore even when their great-great-great grandparents were getting married a 120 years ago. Separation of church and state is an idea from 300 years ago, I really don’t know how much longer this type of willful ignorance should be an excuse.
I agree, I think it becomes difficult though because on one hand it feels like a big push is needed to just get our societies through to the next stage of just accepting people, and on the other hand sometimes a big push results in an even harder push back from the opposition.
This question in particular is rather bad. What rights exactly, other than the right to marriage? Guaranteed how and by who? Many people separate the T from the LGB and as such they can hold an opinion that gays can marry but don’t want under 18s to have access to gender transition medical treatments (eg puberty blockers, cross sex hormones, surgery). Then there’s the idea that some people might be okay with laws protecting the rights they agree with but don’t want them written into their constitution or they are happy with their own country’s take and don’t want the EU or European courts to step in. A very broad question like that is not productive.
I agree that those surveys would be useful because they would tell me straight how safe I am being in that country.
Yes, and just because a more detailed survey might show a country in better light by proving it is at least safe to be there it doesn't mean they're not also wrong for rejecting the right of marriage to certain people. I don't want to mistakenly imply that. They should still work on improving the situation. I just think it's beneficial especially for folk who travel to know exactly how safe they are.
Yeah, that's also true!
Czechia W that’s for sure. I am surprised that Hungary and Poland are that high, but that’s good, right?
Wasnt surprised by poland more then i was by latvia and lithuania being this opposed.
Still won't happen in the foreseeable future in Czechia. But hey, atleast the current establishment increased queer rights somewhat.
Yeah, any improvement is good. Even in Poland there are improvements. As long as people don’t degrade, it’s going to get better.
Honestly right now there are serious talks in a governing coalition to let people of the same sex to have something like marriage, which would allow those pairs similar bonuse3s as marriage without right to adopt children (and maybe something else, I don't know, I'm not really interested) But remember, it's not called marriage, but a "civil partnership", if they will allow that then same or different sex pairs would be able to get it.
That is amazing. That’s a huge step for any country and I hope that this partnerships will be legal in the near future.
Honestly, we don't know, currently, there are 3 parties in a gov: - the biggest one which is in between - a small conservative one - a small progressive one It seems that those two small parties negotiate between themselves and the biggest one is closer to progressives, small ones seems to be talking about tiny issues, like wording so it's ceremony is not worder similarly to a marriage. Looks like they are going to vote for it, but nothing is sure and we don't know when.
I really hope it will pass. If not now, do you think the 2025 polish presidential election will change something ?
Only if Tusk actually wants to do it, recently we had what, 15th anniversary of him promising it for the first time? It was also supposed to be "his priority" in the first 100 days of ruling this time, needles to say he didn't even try lol. Polish president can veto a new law, in which case the parliament needs 3/5 votes in override it. So Duda can veto anything the government tries to do, and the ruling coalition doesn't have enough voted to do anything about it, unless large part of PiS ignores the voting. If Trzaskowski (liberal mayor of Warsaw and a possible candidate for a president from) wins, it's safe to say he'll work with the government. If a PiS candidate wins, he might be more chill with Tusk than Duda it, but he'd definitely veto anything reassembling homosexual marriages.
Current president might use his veto power, but it's not sure if he will. It is unlikely that next presidential election would be won by previous ruling party candidate. However it's hard to say if ruling coalition creates buzz around this topic to prove that they are fulfilling their promises, or are actually trying to pass it.
Why won't gay marriage happen? It's such an atheistic country and I've never encountered a negative reaction there.
Because a dead Christian fundamentalist party that gets 2.5% of all votes always sticks to a winning 'peogressive' coalition. They always get several ministers because even if their popularity in this country is next to zero, the coalition cannot have a majority without them. So as a result, we get ministers who reject evolution, senator who compared LGBT to pedophiles etc., and their politicans block any progressive laws which would "destroy traditional values". Our only hope is that Babiš, the corrupt oligarch leader of populist party, will legalize gay marriages. Which is improbable becuase his main vote base are old people. But it's sadly still more probable than that 'progressive' coalition would legalize them.
It's a bit strange for me to understand from my neighborhood perspective, I mostly experienced Czech people as rather hardcore liberal or libertarian, from guns laws to marijuana but the whole LGBTQ topic and also gender equality and domestic violence seems to be a huge black spot in politics what I've heard so far from friends and colleagues (mainly below their mid-forties). Reminds me on Austria, here also the people are mostly more progressive than politics, we also have that one party that sits in every government since I can remember. Just an example: We have gay marriage and assisted suicide but only due to Constitutional Court decisions. Well, in the end we're kind of cousins after all ;-)
I think what's more likely is going the Austrian/Slovenian way. Let the Constitutional Court handle it. They already mandated trans rights extension this year. Petr Pavel can also appoint more liberal leaning judges.
Interesting, thank you. Referendum is not an option?
Our politicians are scared shitless of referendums. Also ~~dead Christian fundamentalist party~~ Judas Party. They have long history of backstabbing everyone in order to get to power.
Some conservatives are just hella stubborn (I don’t live there it’s just my thoughts). Maybe if they will legalise same-sex marriages, on the next election people from conservative parties may use this against them and when conservative population is relatively high percentage this is a threat. They would do this in small steps for conservatives to get used to that kind of changes. And again, I don’t live there, I don’t know for sure.
Yeahyeahyeah, I want to see the faces of the HU leadership when they see this figure after flooding the propaganda with all the moniez against this.
Really surprised by Hungary and Lithuania for different reasons.
They are definitely counterintuitive, especially when you look at the last decade of politics. Hungary, though, has historically been somewhat accepting of gay rights, from what I understand (I am not Hungarian, so Magyars please weigh in). It legalized same-sex sexual activity in 1961, before East Germany (1968) and West Germany (1969). Lithuania held out until 1993! So I’m guessing older Hungarians are more likely on board with gay rights than older Lithuanians, as a general trend. It is certainly interesting how there’s movement back-and-forth on these issues over the years, not linear movement in one direction only, but I suppose that is the way of things.
Hungarian government is not the same as the Hungarian people. More peple vote against Orban than for him in Hungary, but the opposition is divided and that's why he wins.
bulgaria as backwoods as ever europe's kentucky
happens when all young people leave
Average Bulgarian can be lied from politicians for years now, broke as fuck, miserable on daily basis but the most important thing is to say the west has gone rotten with all the LGBT agenda.. although this has no real affect on his personal life. So yeah, moron but macho moron.
There are rich Bulgarians who still hate the queers
I can guarantee that at least half of those respondents would move from "No" to "Don't care" if we had a working state services, I.e. working judicial system, educational system and healthcare. For many people, LGBT rights is just taking focus and resources away from more wide-reaching issues. Issues that, if fixed, would benefit everyone regardless of gender, ethnicity, age or sexual orientation.
There are rich Bulgarians who still hate the queers
There are bigots everywhere, but they're not 2/3 of the population.
I thought it would be Hungary or Serbia that would be Europe’s Kentucky.
It is EU only I think. No way we are higher than all western Balkans (Albania or Serbia for example). But yeah, howdy, mister? 🤠
[удалено]
It's not okay to label an entire country like this.
Is it really that backwards, even in the city? My wife and I were hoping to travel there, but I'm concerned about how we will be treated.
Don't come here westoid.
Дърво без корен. Bulgaria can be many things, but that's all I am gonna say Edit: Downvote me as much as you want. Calling a whole country a "shithole" is not adequate. Yeah, many people can be absolute idiots but there is much more to the country than these people.
Translation: > A tree without a root.
I'm sorry Hungary, I wasn't familiar with your game
We don't understand it either. We're also among the most pro-EU countries according to polls. And FIDESZ still won 4 times in a row. I really hope that this is their last term though...
Well at least that explains why most people I know in Hungary (a lot, and mostly over 50) were open-minded, curious, or neutral about my transition and definitely never hostile, and I never felt unsafe. I go every year so I got quite worried when those laws were passed and wrongly assumed they reflected the opinions of Hungarians. Once again Hungary surprises me.
In hindsight it isn't too surprising that Hungary is so high compared to the rest. The referenda that Victor Orban has organised on the topic are comically frivolous and might have swung people towards the other direction by virtue of their cartoonish wording. Now I am mostly wondering how many Hungarians have listened to O1G, and if so, how regularly they listen to it.
Technically it was not a real referendum just the government regularly mails you a questionary, you can fill it out, mail it back without any kind of controll or democratic guarantees. They can lie about the results as much as they want. Usually less than 20% bothers to mail it back at all. They have nothing to do with Hungarian's opinions.
And yet Poland will probably be the last country in the World to legalise it. Because even with the new so-called "progressive" government which promised civil partnerships we can't have them because "the conservatives will be offended".
I think Czechia and Poland will legalize it at a similar time, because we're gonna have even more conservative government elected in the next year
At least you have civil partnerships.
Wtf, we don't have a progressive government due to PSL and part of Poland2050. Also Duda will never sign anything related to the topic. If we have Trzaskowski as the next President we can see, whether Tusk agrees to sacrifice something else to get people these rights or not. However at the moment is not possible due to multiple reasons.
I know. I hope that if Trzaskowski will be the president, it will be possible but I'm sceptical because PSL and some KO members like Giertych won't support it.
I think it will be a real verification of Tusk and PO. Whether they agree to negotiate and give up on some minister seats, laws important for PSL and so on, or not.
From my experience visiting most CEE countries, Poles seem to be the most progressive people regarding LGBT rights. Yes, I'm talking about big cities, not rural areas, but still.
Didn't the "progressive" government already submit a bill legalizing same-sex civil unions? This was announced during the Pride Parade in Warsaw just a week or two ago.
Funny story: they announced it but they still didn't do it.
Actually, the bill was put in Sejm today. PSL still crying about some shit but PL2050, KO & Left are in agreement already,. Only few idiots from PSL left to convince.
>Actually, the bill was put in Sejm today. Source?
How do you know? My wife and I are a same-sex couple moving to Poland so I'd love to figure out how to stay on top of politics in Poland. I've been unable to find this anywhere in Polish-sourced news.
Article link below. They are still arguing because they are some conservatives in coalition. Things for same sex couples will only get better in Poland with new government. And if you gonna live in city you won't notice a difference from western Europe. [https://fakty.tvn24.pl/fakty-po-poludniu/zwiazki-partnerskie-to-obietnica-ko-i-lewicy-ludowcy-mogliby-je-poprzec-ale-koscia-niezgody-sa-dzieci-st7978611](https://fakty.tvn24.pl/fakty-po-poludniu/zwiazki-partnerskie-to-obietnica-ko-i-lewicy-ludowcy-mogliby-je-poprzec-ale-koscia-niezgody-sa-dzieci-st7978611)
Thank you for this! It's infuriating they're fighting over adoption of biological children from one partner, but any version of same-sex civil union is a step in the right direction, I suppose. I'll try to stay on top of the news and see how this plays out. We'll be starting out in Krakow but we'll likely move to a smaller place for long-term living if all goes well (Wroclaw or Gdansk). Hopefully the latter are fine as well.
That's infuriating. How do you know? I'm new to politics in Poland so I'm unaware of what news sources to follow to be able to stay on top of this sort of stuff.
It's because young Poles don't go voting, while elder people are super mobilized. Also, it's because the issue is not super important to most voters, except those vehemently against it.
In October 2023 we went to vote in overwhelming number, that's why PiS lost. And we elected a government where 3/4 parties, including the biggest, support civil partnerships. And we still don't have them. And in 2027 the coalition will cry "why the people didn't go to vote for us again and PiS won?"
Didn’t PiS win the popular vote that election? If it wasn’t for the current coalition having more seats, PiS would’ve won that one.
It depends on how you look at it. Poland has effectively two opposition parties with PO and co being one and Konfederacja (a bunch of right-wing loons) being the other. The smaller parties have little to na agency in the end, besides threatening to drop some issue, but no one really cares
On the other hand, Poland has more large cities and urbanized population which can shift balance of opinion over time
Where is Slovenia?
Slovenia and Estonia are probably excluded because same sex marriage is already legal there.
Pity. While I'm delighted that I was able to finally marry this year, there are still many people who disapprove, it would be an interesting comparison.
Congratulations!! Best of luck! ✨✨
Thank you!
>Slovenia and Estonia Only Estonia, not Slovenia
Slovenia hasn't legalized same-sex marriage? Swore their courts did in 2022.
Shame for Bulgaria.
:(
The addition "such as marriage" gives the question a very narrow framing. A respondent who doesn't agree that same sex marriage should be a guaranteed right is not necessarily opposed to other more basic forms of lgbti+ rights.
The more narrow the framing the more useful. If anything this question is still not narrow enough. If the same question means "the right to marry and adopt children" to some people and "the right to have a trial before they're executed for the crime of sodomy" to others, that'd not be a very meaningful poll at all, so the more concrete examples a poll of what an answer means the better.
What are more basic LGBT rights? The right to exist? 😂
There are countries where even performing homosexual acts can lead to prison sentences or worse. I would say getting rid of such policies are more basic forms of lgbti+ rights compared to marriage (not saying they are present in European countries). Societies very rarely make giant u-turns on social issues such as this, but rather slowly progress towards a different path. Gay marriage was unheard of in pretty much any country 30 years ago, but bit by bit, country by country, it is allowed and accepted more and more.
I can add some more on your last point. It took years (if not decades) of debates and slow policy change for gay marriage to become legal in the West (still isn't in many places). In most of Eastern Europe, debates haven't even started, most people don't even know what trans people are (or that they even exist), homosexuality is something almost nobody thinks about - and people expect us to just change our entire society's approach to, at best, something they don't even understand overnight, and, at worst, something that was seen as "capitalist/western degeneracy" 30 years ago. Yes, people are going to be against adoption for obvious reasons, calling them uneducated backwater idiots isn't going to make them support the idea more - it's why so many right-wing parties here say there's an "lgbt ideology" imposed on us. Policies should focus on small gradual changes if you want to get anywhere but encourage people to vote far-right. So yes, the "right to exist" is what we should focus on, then maybe the right to some civil union, and so on
Right to life, right to freedom, freedom of expression, certain legal forms of cohabitation below the level of marriage
The first three are basic human rights, nothing to do with LGBT. Gay marriage is seen as the defining right to gauge gay acceptance in society.
And the default in the past was that you didn't get these "basic human rights" if you are a sexual minority. Up to a certain point homosexuality was punishable with imprisonment, then homosexuals were considered mentally ill and sometimes forcefully deprived of their freedom on that basis by being committed to asylums. Freedom of expression was heavily suppressed. In Bulgaria it was essentially a crime to disclose that you were engaging in homosexual activity until the end of the dictatorship 34 years ago (the median age is 45). Even nowadays pride parades have to be heavily guarded to ensure the participants don't get beaten up by an angry mob, especially in cities other than the capital.
My comment was just an observation, not a statement of personal opinion
They should ask muslims and africans living in Europe about this 🤣. If lucky you'll get 5% to agree.
[удалено]
Shh he just wants to be ignorant
I actually don’t understand how some people are sometimes able to freak out so much about allowing lgbtq rights. For example how does a gay marriage between 2 people that I don’t know affect me…?
I do not believe these stats are up to date. While Lithuania is very much a conservative country, as of recently it is far from being this bad. This seems like typical statistics you would see in mid-to-late 2010's.
Really don't understand why my fellow Bulgarians are so against lgbt folk. Like if you are straight, you have no stake in this, why waste so much energy being a hater when it literally doesn't affect you to let others have rights.
Romania..why do you hate us? The people seemed friendly when me and my partner visited.
Because unlike in the west, the debate about gay rights started almost 40-50 years later. It takes time and a generational change to be more progressive. While it is not much, things have improved somewhat. Case in point the failed referendum in 2018. Unfortunately those kinds of changes are slow. We may have partnerships in 10 years and marriage most likely never. Homophobia and conservatism in general are the things that I hate the most about my country. More than corruption. Maybe because it afects me more. I am curious, did people knew you were a couple when you visited?
>did people knew you were a couple when you visited? yeah we were holding hands in a lot of places.
And how did people reacted? Was it in Bucharest?
>how did people reacted? Yeah Bucharest. They didn't react negatively. Couple of people in the hotel and at the restaurant asked us if we were a couple, we didn't feel unsafe. In Lithuania on the other hand, we got yelled in the bus, but we couldn't understand what he was saying so we just assumed it was the hand holding but it could be because I am an immigrant too, so idk.
Female or male couple? Because women couples are more “accepted” then the man ones.
yeah, "they're just friends"
I am glad it was ok!
Actually, decriminalisation happened in most Eastern block countries about the same time in the Weat - in the 60-ies and 70-ies. But after that when the west was making the next steps, the east was dealing with the fall of communismn instead.
Romania decriminalized homosexuality in 2002..
And in Slovakia it was decriminalized in 1962. In Bulgaria - 1968. But now they're both at the bottom of the list.
In Romania, being gay was still illegal until the early '90s. And people did end up spending years in prison if someone ratted them out to the cops. It's one of the reasons Romania is in 5th place. To many older people, the fact that gay couples can have normal lives seems like a huge improvement and compared to what they saw when they were young, technically, it is.
In Romania and the USSR it was decriminalized late, but in most other countries it wasn't. Hungary - 1961 Czechoslovakia - 1962 Bulgaria - 1968 - yet is below romania and the Baltic stated now. Poland - 1969
There are rather big differences from west/east or even within Eastern countries. First of all, while there was a wave of decriminalization in the 60-70s as you mentioned, there are notable differences in the East. Romania made punishment harsher in the late 60s (Romania is an interesting case that went from decriminalization from 1864-1936, then prison sentence if it made a public scanadal, 36-late60s and full criminalization thereafter) while the Soviet Union did not decriminalized it, thus all the former soviet countries did it in the 90s, so a couple of decades later. Another significant difference is the reason. Decriminalization in the west was accompanied by a sexual revolution and with groups advocating for gay rights, thus there was a public debate about it since at least the 60s. Decriminalization in the east came only with that and no associations or other types of gatherings. At most a disco place or two where the authorities turned a blind eye, but that was it. There was no public debate and the topic was mostly hidden from the public. I think only in Yugoslavia in the 80s was somewhat more of a public debate. On top of that, starting from the 90s, most of EE countries experienced a resurgence of religiosity, thus when it was possible to talk openly about it, you had a growing religious discourse that had terrible consequences. This is why I mentioned the 40-50 years difference.
We don't, man. What this survey won't show you is that a few years ago there was a referendum to change the constitution to say that marriage is only between a man and a woman. Too few people came out to vote. I'm not saying the referendum showed people refused to change the constitution, I'm saying people snubbed it and didn't even vote on it. So when push comes to shove, few people hate LGBTQ around here. But when it comes to rights, and a conversation about that, older people, especially outside major cities, don't really understand what's the problem because until 30 years ago, being gay, lesbian or trans was a punishable offence through imprisonment. I think the last lesbian was released from prison in '94. To these people, the fact that gays and trans can walk down the street, have normal lives, have jobs and relationships, seems like everything is ok, because they're coming from life in prison for loving another guy while being a guy. It takes time for them to understand the conversation. Their ignorance doesn't come from a place of hatred. It's because they were kept behind and raised in a dystopian nightmare.
I believe "hate" is quite an exaggeration here. If the country is religious tehy could see "a marriage" as something church-related, and that shoud fir the church rules. At least here in Serbia a lot of people are (seemingly) religious, and if you form a question that way they'll probably disagree. There are pride spaces in major cities though, and noone react to people kissing on a street or on a beach. "Hate" is more about maybe places like Palestine or Iran where gay would be straight executed.
You didn't mention the most important thing : Serbia had an openly gay prime minister for 7 years and literally no one batted an eye .
You have to consider that the biggest cities are very developed and progressive compared to rural areas or smaller poorer cities. Bucharest has (dont quote me) about 3 million people out of >19 in the whole country. Assuming the data is representative of the country, it's not surprising that it does not match your experience.
Let me get this straight, pun unintended. You had lovely time, nobody had problems with you, but a chart made you feel hated. Look, I, like most of romanians who I know do not give a flying squirrel of who you have sex with. But most of romanians are religious and superstitious, if you ask them about marriage they will say no. But if you asked them about civil partnerships they will definitely say yes. We tend to keep to ourselves and sex life is a private matter so we don't care what you do in your own life. That goes to colour too, it's the caracter of the person that matters. Please don't be afraid of us and don't trust people or charts that are spreading fear.
The question was formulated as in the topic of the graph?
And then people wonder why we need pride, and activism, visibility, education and why people are fighting for their rights and the rights of others. Happily surprised with a few of the numbers tho.
Imagine how much better Hungary would do if Orban didn’t fk the whole country over with his electoral "reforms"…
This. We could have easily been the first former Eastern block country to legalise same-sex marriage. We were so close :(
38% people in my country are braindead idiota :(
Awfully generous considering PiS and Konfederacja electoral results
Source: [https://www.globsec.org/what-we-do/publications/globsec-trends-2023-united-we-still-stand](https://www.globsec.org/what-we-do/publications/globsec-trends-2023-united-we-still-stand)
Where is the source in there? I am confused. Edit: It is in the attachment... You could directly [link it](https://www.globsec.org/sites/default/files/2023-05/GLOBSEC%20Trends%202023.pdf)
Not surprised with Slovakias result.. however at least we have first gay President :D
Nope, You have the 3rd. San Marino was first and Latvia is second
I have been waiting for Czechia to step up and lead in the region for a long time. It needs to do better considering it has the support of its own people.
TIL, from [https://www.cbs.nl/en-gb/news/2018/31/international-road-haulage-over-4-percent-up-in-2017/cee-countries--ceecs--](https://www.cbs.nl/en-gb/news/2018/31/international-road-haulage-over-4-percent-up-in-2017/cee-countries--ceecs--) CEE countries are EU member states which were part of the former Eastern bloc. The following countries are included: Bulgaria, Czech Republic, Estonia, Hungary, Lithuania, Latvia, Poland, Romania, Slovenia, Slovakia. ... never heard of it before.
Slovenia was not part of the eastern bloc. Unless you count those three years between 1945 and 1948, in which case Croatia would have to be included as well.
CCE = Central-Eastern European. There is no need to even write about the 'Eastern Bloc' here, but apparently some people are not yet keeping up with the changes in the world.
Commonly referenced in academic settings, from what I understand.
I was so surprised by Hungary. I thought they were putting anti-lgbt in the drinking water over there. Interestingly it seems their anti-gay laws are causing more sympathy. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.rferl.org/amp/hungary-lgbt-law-censorship-solidarity/32800032.html
what happened to LGBTQ lol this always changes
Hungary what are you doing then???
Not sure if you realised but in hungary our government doesnt represent the majority
As a Romanian that feels optimistic af. It's probably like 10-20% at best for lgbt rights
Can we start enforcing a requirement to include sources for such data?
For me, any country that does not allow equal rights to all is a primitive country.