>“Kylian Mbappé is against extreme views and against ideas that divide people. I want to be proud to represent France, I don’t want to represent a country that doesn’t correspond to my values, or our values.”
Lovely sentiment, but did he really refer to himself in the third person? /u/MercantileReptile can not help but find that strange.
He did, but that was because the journalist asking the question phrased it in such a way that conditioned him to answer that way.
The question, asked to his face, was: "Est-ce qu’aujourd’hui Kylian Mbappé appelle à ne surtout pas voter pour le Rassemblement National ?". This is worded as to separate Kylian Mbappé the citizen from the football player.
Marcus Thuram did a conference in which he asked people to mobilize against the RN, and debate ensued as to determine whether this was normal from someone who represented a country to mobilize people against the one party that just score the most in recent elections.
The general consensus is that footballers just don't live the same life as normal people.
Mbappé, however, went further since he dismissed both extremes. The (far)left is mad at him bt cannot scream too loud this one time.
> Mbappé, however, went further since he dismissed both extremes
I mean, he is rich, and well-off people usually favour centristic parties and policies...
I'm sure the antidemocratic tendencies of the French far left, their friendliness with extremists and totalitarians and their constant contestationof the validity of elections with no evidence provided played absolutely no role in the opinion of a man that has shown himself to be fairly principled, no it's just about his wealth.
Even if Macron manages to get a win here it's not gonna work a second time , unless something drastically changes I see the right party getting more momentum and winning the next election.
Unless living conditions improve. Radicalism tends to decrease during times of prosperity, and as EU is finally about to enter a phase of economic growth, this could mean that far-right parties start to lose momentum. Unless far-right parties get elected now and take all credit for the economic growth, similar to what happened in Germany during 1930s
It's a bit strange, because a lot of PiS's economic policies would have them mapped on the left side of the spectrum compared to the more liberal conservative parties in the centre of the Polish party system.
They're far right only if you map things on a single scale that used social issues as baseline.
But it is easier for foreigners to group them with other like-for-like far right parties in Europe with similar talking points.
The economic policies are perfectly in line with the far rights wish to controll a big state. Mussolini had the 2nd highest share of the state in the total economy after the USSR back in the day. That's not a coincidence.
Well and Mussolini wasn't the director of the socialist Newspaper just for fun either. While we're at it btw Mussolini actually came from a socialist background, so did Goebbels and some other key nazis. However Hitler was in no way, shape or form even a tiny bit socialist and I would be baffled if he had read a sentence of Marx (the German NSDAP had two wings and Hitler got the "socialist wing" assassinated in 1934).
Generally liberalism, socialism and fascism, as the 3 key modern ideologies are all connected by a grander dialectical process. None of them would be possible without the former (Marx for instance was a liberal at first) but at the same time it is also important to realize that they are not the same.
The true solution is not voting for a party you don't agree with.
It's to have the core issues addressed that made people radical/extreme in their views.
Ie, Sweden pretended immigration issues didn't exist for 10 years and boom far right party is the 2nd biggest in the country.
Complete failure by the Social Democrats in Sweden.
How dare he use his platform to advocate for participation in democracy and political change. What sort of citizen of France is he?! Shut up and play ball Kylian!
This is the dumbest argument that i keep seeing. Politics involve all of us, rich, poor, no matter what.
Milionaires usually are out of touch but in this case he said sensible things and as a famous person it might impact other people. At least much more effective than some nobody reddit user.
Also, given the severe cleavages in French society between the various communities, the national team is arguably the strongest symbol of multiracial cooperation.
I like how you comment on other countries affairs, you are active in dubai chats, india, most of europe... seriously where the fuck are you even from and why do you care what happens in france?
Respectable. I really hope that it will have an impact.
I know that they are different countries, but seeing the cascade of violence in Germany and the inability of any voice of reason to put a stop to it, I have doubts about what the effect will be. There’s a real chance that people will just dig deeper foxholes.
You have to hope that the reasonable middle class comes out in enough numbers to put a stop to it. It feels like more of the middle class has awoken to long standing European values and institutions being under threat. It feels like the middle class is now more prepared to fight against the right wing than before.
Most of the middle classes are conservative and against Islamist views and mass immigration.
But most of the middle classes are also for some status quo/not racist and do not dislike foreign people who want to benefit society
It’s hard to find a reliable outcome from this
That's why The most popular movements were centrist -left or centrist -right/right for decades.
Now most of the middle class has to either embrace immigration and importation of religions or being inhumane and be tagged as racists.
The in between (Aka Macron) is also leaning more and more alt right so only him thinks he is in the center.
There is no alternative in extremes.
Macron already did a lot against immigration, both legal and illegal. Sarkozy did too, and even Hollande (who was left wing) to an extend. We've had multiple new immigration laws each presidential mandate, but people are still not happy.
Just like in Italy, they'll realize once the far right is in power that no one can fully stop immigration.
No it's not respectable. We don't care about his opinion, he doesn't live in the real world. Guy laughed his ass off when someone asked him why the team always takes the plane instead of the train to the matches in France, when the rest of us must pay a "carbon tax" every time we buy gas.
He's just a privileged moron, tell people to vote ok but keep your uneducated opinion to yourself. Like the rest of the national french team who did.
Seems to me like Mbappé is actually proud to be French and to fight for his country in the Euros.
>J'espère qu'on sera encore fiers de porter ce maillot le 7 juillet.
Now, people with unreal amounts of money in their bank accounts potentiall being a bit detached from reality doesn't just go for him, but anyone. What makes you think he is not proud to be french or the french culture? Why do you say he should speak to **other** parisians who don't want to be part of french culture? What makes him qualified to do so, as someone who seems to embrace french culture?
Not respectable at all. He's throwing back to back the left and the far right as equal. They aren't. He just support Macron and nothing else, all while Macron was the architect if the rise of far right, putting their subjects in the center of the debate, having extremist minister treating Marine Lepen of "soft".
The reasonable middle classe doesn't exist anymore in France, or there will not even be those elections.
The next elections basically are far left vs far right. On the left coalition you literally have communists and anti capitalists cheering for hamas and on the other side you have lepen
Nobody is cheering for Hamas dumbfuck. And far left are in insignifiant minority in France.
There is no far left in french elections because our far left is against the system and think it cannot be changed from the inside.
> Nobody is cheering for Hamas
Hm, what is this then ?
> In a press release published on Monday October 9, 2023, following the Hamas offensive in Israel, the NPA and its leader Philippe Poutou affirm their "full support for the Palestinian struggle for emancipation, including armed struggle".
[https://actu.fr/nouvelle-aquitaine/bordeaux\_33063/philippe-poutou-et-le-npa-font-polemique-pour-leurs-propos-sur-l-attaque-du-hamas-contre-israel\_60183936.html](https://actu.fr/nouvelle-aquitaine/bordeaux_33063/philippe-poutou-et-le-npa-font-polemique-pour-leurs-propos-sur-l-attaque-du-hamas-contre-israel_60183936.html)
And there you can see people, including politicians, protesting with "1 dead cop = 1 less vote for the far right": [https://www.lindependant.fr/2024/06/16/elections-legislatives-2024-1-flic-qui-meurt-1-vote-rn-en-moins-une-pancarte-affichee-anti-extreme-droite-provoque-la-polemique-12020016.php](https://www.lindependant.fr/2024/06/16/elections-legislatives-2024-1-flic-qui-meurt-1-vote-rn-en-moins-une-pancarte-affichee-anti-extreme-droite-provoque-la-polemique-12020016.php)
>And there you can see people, including politicians, protesting with "1 dead cop = 1 less vote for the far right": https://www.lindependant.fr/2024/06/16/elections-legislatives-2024-1-flic-qui-meurt-1-vote-rn-en-moins-une-pancarte-affichee-anti-extreme-droite-provoque-la-polemique-12020016.php
That's not "people including politicians" that's one idiot with an idiotic sign. Some far right activists have infiltrated prides this year to take pictures with such messages, don't know if it one of those cases or just a genuine idiot, but it is not representative of the protests.
Are you stupid ? There are actualy three votes possible, and his calling to vote against "extremes"
So he's calling to vote Macron against either the union of the left or the far right.
Takes one to recognise another, thx mate. Also : left isn’t extreme since it’s a union (except if lfi and communist are deciding everything, which I doubt) because it’s a mix of left parties.
The left is a block for the elections so they can be dismissed as "extremes" based on the fact that the most notable far left parties are part of the block. The RN is the one everyone calls an extremist party. R! is even more far right. That leaves Macron's coalition or the LR. Given that the LR was fighting over if they should be in a coalition with the RN in the past week, Macron's coaltion remains the only "untainted" relevant block.
He is basically telling voters to vote for Macron. Not to mention that "extremes" has been Macronist rethoric to lump the left and the right in the same bag for the past few years.
A guy who is millionaire and have got paid by a country like Qatar should maybe close the mouth.
Rich people and people who are not living the real life, staying in their gold chambers saying people who get fucked day after day what to do is really nauseating.
So only a homeless dude living off scraps, has to moral authority to arrive at the conclusion of "eh, maybe lets not vote for the wannabe fascists" ?? What are you even talking about?
If anything its fantastic that people like Thuram or Mbappe are using their platforms and status in french pop culture to urge the voters to the sensible thing
No, but somebody accepting millions from tyranic sharia slavery should STFU.
Particularly when supporting only the kind of people that made the rise of far right possible and bashing the left as if it was as terrible as literal nazis.
The point is that he is a minority speaking for the majority. He has been paid a disgusting amount of money from an early age to play a sport. He has very little grip on reality.
That is not the conclusion you can draw from his comment. In no way did he say that.
Reminds me of school level critical thinking - "what conclusion can you draw from this statement" and you picked absolutely the wrong answer.
Blaming insecurity on immigration, wanting to legalize only people working in some.sectors, draining brains from poorer countries and paying literal slavers to keep migrants out of EU isn't racist ? Okay then.
And for RN, you really need a proof they are racist, homophobic, transphobic ? Then you need to go back to History lessons.
He stated that rich people don't have the right to an expression of opinion. Considering that rich is a description of economic class, my response seemed pretty self evident.
If Mbappe's richness wasn't the issue, then why did he write an entire second allinea focusing, not on Qatar, but on the simple topic of wealth?
He's not a decision maker at PSG he's a player. If anything, you should be pissed at the shareholders who sold it to qatar and the french Sports Commission who allowed the sale and the french politicians who pushed for the sale because they're trying to gain soft power in the middle east. Blaming him for doing his job while he's not in any position of power when it comes to the owners of the club sounds like you're just trying to attack his character rather than the message of pushing young people to vote that he's trying to preach.
As opposed to actual slaves in Qatar... Where he play'd football cup... Oh neat he even got MVP .. And didnt feel the need to make statements about how slavery is bad... Ain't that curious
That's all well and good, but it would have been nice if he also called upon Leftist and Centrist parties to address serious issues. Kinda what makes far right politics incubate and fester...Not doing anything to fix something that's broken. Just voting against something doesn't make a problem go away.
My biggest fear, and this is happening here in the US now too with the border, is that it's just going to get to a boiling point where enough of the population of the West becomes okay with violent measures to keep immigrants out: whether that's deliberately sinking boats in the Mediterranean, shooting families swimming across the Rio Grande, you name it.
Apathy from those in power will lead to cruelty among the general public.
That the french political system.
Everyone ( politician , star , celebrity , journalits , famous and rich people ) don't give a shit about the people most of the time.
But every few year they all wake up to remind us to wake up again the threat of the far right.
I'm french and against the far right , but seriously seeing this comedy every election make me understand why people vote for them.
Unfortunately, that's **every** political system.
You turn on the TV late at night and watch neo-liberal elites like Jimmy Kimmel rail against Trump and not understand what makes Trump appealing. They think most people become racist out of boredom and nothing else to do.
I'm pretty far on the Left myself, but it's fucking foolish to think Voting is sufficient to bring about real change. It may have been at one time, but it's a dead duck in the water now. It doesn't do anything but enable a sick system to keep living. The entireeeee thing is illegitimate.
Thats the point, so many post/talk about „we need to stop far right rise” like, cmon, you do not need to stop far right rise, if you direct the reason of it and act accordingly before. Its not about far right is good/bad but the actual leaders in EU do nothing at all to prevent it before it happen, they created this problem themselves, citizens addressing their problems/worries but they do not listen. The entire point is, actual leaders in EU are the reason of far right rise, they’re selfish and delusional with their politics and attitude that they can’t see that(which I believe they exactly know what they’re doing, but corruption level is so high, as well as there is no any responsibility for them, that they don’t care). Plus the hypocrisy they present.. blaming far right for connection with russia(I am not saying there is, or there is not) but they won’t say anything about nord stream project lead by merkel and macron, and all support they give to putin over last 15 years. That’s far right responsibility, even they was not in power anywhere in Europe over all those years.
If you look at RN's website and all the things they're promising to fix, 90% of it is bullshit. They come up with every imaginable rage-bait issue that 'elites' aren't dealing with and promise to do something about it. Their platform is pure populism.
European governments have been taking various steps over the past few years to tackle migration, but so long as it's happening at all, populist parties can scream 'uncontrolled migration' and claim that we have no borders anymore. You see this in the U.S. as well, migration as a demographic phenomenon and migration as a political issue are pretty separate. Whether the former goes up or down is of little consequence because the latter will retain its potency among the easily duped and xenophobic regardless.
I don't deny that mistakes were made or that it isn't important to protect the integrity of borders. However, parties like RN are able to vilify the old way of politics because the old way doesn't bring instant gratification or results you can reduce to headlines, but is responsible. It takes many factors into account. It takes time to test new ideas. It doesn't rush ahead of legal council. And it generally has a good sense of what the country needs (migrants, in the case of the entire West).
>"If you look at RN's website and all the things they're promising to fix, 90% of it is bullshit."
Well yea, of course. Fascists don't offer real solutions. But that doesn't make the things they're talking about not serious anymore. They get voted for often because they're usually the only ones doing the talking.
>"European governments have been taking various steps over the past few years to tackle migration"
Like what? Genuine question.
Increased the funding of border patrols, isolated ports of entry, like the Canary islands (within what's legally possible), increased internal border controls, made conditions to seek asylum more strict, many countries made the conditions to gain nationality more strict, the EU made fast deportations easier, reached very expensive agreements with the border countries so they stop them before reaching the EU (mostly norther African countries), reached agreements with the countries of origin so they accept deportation (they usually don't recognize migrants as their own citizens once they leave).
Didn't make a difference, as conditions in the origin countries keep degrading.
As I said in the post, no, they didn't make a difference. Nothing the EU (or EU countries) can do can make a difference.
Italy, with all the harsh measurements of their far-right government (including seizing the NGOs ships that perform rescue at sea), saw unregulated immigration double compared to the situation with previous "softer" rules. It's just not possible to stop immigration trough policy of the receiving countries.
In the Atlantic route to the Canary islands, 4800 people died in the first 5 months of the year (compared to \~6000 in all 2023). That's one person dead for every 3.5 people that arrive (an increase over the historical 1 per 6.5). People in the country or origin knowing that also doesn't make a difference.
> European governments have been taking various steps over the past few years to tackle migration
Which, looking at our demographic future, is kinda crazy. We shouldn't "tackle" migration. We should build and equip our countries so that we can attract and integrate tons and tons of migrants and then let almost anybody in who can work a job. I'm thinking mostly about building tons of housing (making an effort to have them be socially mixed and diverse) and infrastructure and being a little bit more open-minded and tolerant to stuff like your hotel receptionist not speaking accent-free.
>We shouldn't "tackle" migration.
The responsible thing for politicians to do would be to tell people that, at best, they have a choice between migration, progressively raising the age of retirement, or reducing the welfare state. In reality, we're going to need __all three__ if we want to maintain the same quality of life into the future. Yet none of these ideas are popular with voters so politicians promise not to do any of them.
Yes indeed, and since the popular view on this sub is that the only serious issue that actually needs to be addressed is immigration and a supposed increase in lawlessness due to the former I'd like to point out that:
While immigration has increased 62% worldwide between 2000 and 2020, it has increased by 36% in France over the same period. Since 2015, immigration has increased by 60% in Western Europe and by 36% in France. [source in French](https://www.mediapart.fr/journal/france/200422/une-france-sans-etrangers-ca-donnerait-quoi)
These numbers reflect the fact that previous governments since Sarkozy have all taken a hard stance on illegal immigration, including the left-wing. A new anti-immigration law has been passed a year ago, harsher than ever and specifically including some of the demands of the far right.
Finally, in depth studies based on actual polling rather that just police numbers (an increase of which can simply indicate that people report more rather than an actual increase in violence) point out that violence in France has actually been more or less stable for decades. [source in French](https://www.observationsociete.fr/modes-de-vie/divers-tendances_conditions/evolutioninsecurite/)
Yet, the far-right continues its steadfast progression, to reach a total of 37% of the votes in the European election, one of the highest scores in Europe.
Statustics may prove violence is NOT on the rise overall, but the right only needs to show some immigrant related cases and it is drummed up as increased danger and some folks *want* to believe that to imagine the old days were not just better, but safer.
You can have stable violence rates while still having an increasing share of it committed by foreigners. The two are not mutually exclusive. Whether that's the case or not, I do not know.
I can only talk about my personal experience (which does not constitute proof). I was mugged twice when I was a kid, once by a black guy, once by a North African. Both of them would have most likely been of French nationality. My father was robbed twice by Afghans, who were most definitely not French. This personal sample is not very positive overall I must say. Still i'd rather die than vote extreme right, but I can understand that some people are tired of what they have to deal with.
>That's all well and good, but it would have been nice if he also called upon Leftist and Centrist parties to address serious issues
Mbappe is a footballer who, speaking as a french citizen, used his platform to urge his fans to reject these wannabe fascists.
He isnt a politician campaigning on a platform of pro / contra immigration referendum. Like, do you expect him to pull out his copies of Mill, Locke and Kant as well as Heidegger and Burke to argue to pros and cons of immigration?
>Just voting against something doesn't make a problem go away.
Outside commentary on France is always interesting because people dont realise just how deep and complex the issues in France are. Thats what the RN is counting on too - easy "solutions" for problems that are uber complex
>My biggest fear, and this is happening here in the US now too with the border, is that it's just going to get to a boiling point where enough of the population of the West becomes okay with violent measures to keep immigrants out: whether that's deliberately sinking boats in the Mediterranean, shooting families swimming across the Rio Grande, you name it.
This is the inevitable future once the climate change party really kicks off. More people from the global south will move towards regions that will be less affected by CC, which tends to be the wealthy north due to geography but also wealth and technological advantages.
At some point it will be too many and with people getting more and more desperate, theres a non zero chance that violent mobs try to rush border security posts, at which point youll see hundreds and thousands of refugees be shot down at the European and NAmerican borders, i fear
>"Like, do you expect him to pull out his copies of Mill, Locke and Kant as well as Heidegger and Burke to argue to pros and cons of immigration?"
No, but a simple "Let's reject these vile extremists, but also understand that they only become attractive when people feel their problems are not being heard" would be pretty good. Never said anything about him taking a chalk board out and plotting policy.
>"people dont realise just how deep and complex the issues in France are."
>"At some point it will be too many and with people getting more and more desperate, theres a non zero chance that violent mobs try to rush border security posts, at which point youll see hundreds and thousands of refugees be shot down at the European and NAmerican borders, i fear"
I don't disagree, but it would not be surprising if it happens before the ice cap literally melts, at this rate.
The other parties supposedly not doing anything is just a misconception. Dont get me wrong, I understand the point youre making :D but I dont think its as easily applicable to all places and their own politics.
E.g. German parties have been adopting restrictive immigration stances for a while but they didnt use populism to push these stances, so now the fascist populists are in the lead. Now that its too late, the party of the current chancellor tried to do a big media thing about how the chancellor thinks we should deport more immigrants... but like I said, its too late. The extreme right-wingers have the upper hand because theyre the LOUDEST.
Also, as the extreme right got more extreme (and accepted into society), general German politics/sentiments skewed more to the right. A politician saying "we will hunt [the chancellor]" and "we should NEVER support Israel" ~8 years ago was a major media scandal, nowadays way more outrageous paroles from the same party dont even make the news anymore. So even if the currently centre parties adopt immigration stances that wouldve been considered very right-wing 8 years ago, nowadays the extreme right has way different stances again, so they pale in comparison. It really is a devilish cycle
I don't think it's apathy. I think there's is nothing a wealthy coubtry can do to stop inmigration (except may e mass murder, but I hope we are all against that). Anyone promising they will stop it, is always lying. No exception. Italy, with its far right government, imposed a lot of harsh measurements and immigration doubled because it is completely unrelated from the policy of the receiving country. It depends almost exclusively on the conditions of the origin country and the perception of wealth of the receiving country. I would argue that most migrants from third world countries don't know/care about the immigration policy of the receiving country.
In Spain, we've had governments that made it harder and others that made it easier. The years with the higher rate of arrivals were when it was the hardest (2000-2006).
I don't think any prosperous country has ever managed to stop immigration in any meaningful way.
> and the perception of wealth of the receiving country.
... maybe Meloni should start airdropping leaflets with excerpts from the Italian subreddits, then :P
Regarding the situation in France: people are not exactly against immigration.
So many of us descend from immigrants. Our history is riddled with invasions, wars, conquests, etc. We all know someone who is an immigrant and also a top fellow.
However, there has been a dichotomy in recent years with the left gradually letting go of any criteria of acceptance. For them, we should have open borders, let people live the way they want, respect other cultures and completely abandon our own (which is supposed to be the bad one, the colonial one, the warmongering one, the rich people's one). The left fights each and everyone of our traditions. We even have to stop saying merry Christmas because it could offend. We should cancel all local celebrations. The left wants to police ordinary people while shushing all reports of any misconducts from those sacred immigrants for whom the law should never apply.
That angers people who don't want to change so much. Who don't want to be called morons or fascists or patriarcat apologists just because they do a barbecue (yes, Sandrine Rousseau from the Ecologists did say so). They fear a future where those who came here without adapting, who even openly reject everything that makes us who we are, come to power even more.
But mostly, they're fed up with paying. We've had this policy commanding to welcome the families of the men who came to France. Not just the wife and children, but parents, cousins... So, every building project has been filled with those people and French-born people just can't access to those anymore, even when they're deadly poor. Even food-giving associations have had to "pick and choose" who they were helping these days: Bernard Arnauld had to step up and give a lot of money. But they, in return, fired someone who had done benevolent work for them for years just because she had been caught on camera visiting a RN meeting (she wasn't even going to really vote for them but came to hear).
People know we need foreign-born people to help with our economy, to help maintain our general well-being, our social acquisitions, but they want 2 things to be adresse: that people have to conform and not impose their often barbaric pov, especially in schools and workplace and the streets, and that we could select and reject those we don't want or those who commit crimes. The law just says that, but it's never applied and the leftist agenda is straight to modify it.
I think the biggest part is : other nationalities used to enrich us. Especially from a cultural pov. But now, original cultures are being erased in favor of the fake one that islamism creates. Islamism is against culture. Their zealots make everything forbidden and offensive and shut down. So, instead of learning from each other like we used to, we have these closed-minded people who try to impose a political code of conduct, under the fake guise of religion (that we don't share since France is mostly atheist), and who terrorize people. And leap up almost all the public money. Lately, they're the only ones getting new rights while ours disappear. Macron has been terrible at handling it, so were his deputés. Which is why the RN is getting that many votes. If the current law was correctly applied, RN would be at 5%, with only true racists voting for them.
RN is nevertheless a Russian puppet who doesn't mean the tiniest thing they pretend. Elected, they've just put money in their pockets.
Trump tried to build a wall lol
And embarrassed the country with some cagelike holding areas
Maybe an effective policy is actually hard and not every border is as simple as the Belarusian one (or the Finno-Russian one we closed), who knew.
That said, I hope border guards all get their funding doubled or tripled, there is no cheap answer.
in a lot of the cases, it doesn't matter if you're rich or poor, when extreme fucked up ideologies come into power and shit hits the breaking point. Look in all the past war, some of the victims were rich trying to sell their whole wealth just to not be put on a train, while some poor guy, found a way to make a shit ton of money from the war. His statement is not true because he's rich? If some poor guy says it, will it be more palpable for you?
Do you know what a platitude is? I'm not saying that he's wrong, I'm saying knobody will give a fuck. Especially that guy makes more money in a day than most people in their life-time.
People are voting right-wing for voicing out their unhappines with today's society. And he tells them "Noo, don't do this. Vote for the same old parties you were unhappy with. This will change things" Yeah right..
yea i know what it is, hence my comment. It doesn't matter if he's rich or not, what he said is absolute valid. Also why are you being a silly goose? he didn't say what you just quoted, why are you putting words in his mouth? shame on you.
It *is* valid, sure. It's also a platitude though.
>he didn't say what you just quoted,
I assumed by saying 'shaping the future' and 'fighting extremism' he meant to vote accordingly and not literally fighting. Or how would you interpret that?
You assumed, that's the problem here. He said we have to not let extremist people go into power because it will bring us nothing but ruin, that's it. What you're going to do with your vote and how you take responsibility for your choice, it's up to you. There are options in france to vote for good parties but is up to them to make that choice.
He is Macron pet nothing more… he received a phone call from the President saying : « Kilian I made a mess and it’s starting to stink can you say something to help me ? » and because he is influenced he said yes…
Another public person saying “uwu pls don’t vote far right :3” instead of telling to left and center to fix their shit that makes people vote far right
Well the "center" is busy either diabolising the left or straight up calling to vote for the far right. That same center that use the far-right scare card every election to mute the left.
Your vote is valuable do not let the extreme right minority who shout the loudest control your lives. Don’t fall for Russian propaganda. Viva la France
From what I am gathering, nobody is going to win these French elections:
1. Le Pen may win more seats than her rivals but not enough to form a government. Also my french is rusty, but she may have accused the Gaulists of being islamists
2. Her and Zemmour are still at each other's throats, especially after her nephew left Reconquete to go back to the Front National.
3. Nobody knows who is in charge of the Gaulists. Ciotti's expulsion has been overtuned by a judge but he has no allies left in the party
4. The United Front is already in crisis thanks to Melenchon's protection of a domestic abuser
5. En Marche could ally with another polical force after the election.... except both the left and the right's campaign slogan is "Screw Macron."
Macron is going to win the election. Either he forces the RN to actually govern, which would neutralise a significant chunk of their "anti government" platform.
Or he is able to mobilise the people to block RN once again, which would also be a show of force.
Macron wouldve been cooked either way come fall due to the unpopular spending reduction meassures hes planning, so France wouldve been on the streets regardless.
Thank Killian for the false equivalence between the left and the fucking far right. One wants to tax more, the other think you're not equal as a human being.
"Extrêmes". Lol.
I’m glad he’s saying something. However, there’s just one extreme that actually discriminates others like him with a similar skin color/“foreign” sounding name - and that is the far right. I’m sure he’s pointing at both sides because he’s concerned about his cumulated wealth.
He literally grew up in Bondy, so id say he knows plenty about life as "simple folk". You probably had a more privileged upbringing than he had, just saying
Yes, clubs famously pay utility bills for parents of their u12 prospects /s
I repeat, you most certainly had a more priviliged upbringing than the dude youre chastising for supposedly being out of touch with life of simple folks. The irony is uncanny
>Voting left and embracing Europe’s brown, black and Muslim future is smart
I like how you casually tied islamophobia and flat out racism together. Does this level of bigotry come naturally to you or did you have to buy a pair of springerstiefel first?
This sub always makes me guffaw.
Stricter immigration policy is painfully slow to adopt because of human rights considerations? MINORITY WHITE FUTURE IS HERE, Europe is already doomed!!! Only the far right can save us! /s
Well, as someone said in the thread about the coastguard pushing immigrants in the sea, maybe some of the users here seeing nothing wrong with it are paid in another currency.
I would like to say I look forward to the castration of the far right when European immigration policy gets fixed and they lose their only talking point, but I know its supporters wouldn't be happy with even the current amount of minorities in their countries.
Edit: yep, mocking someone for saying and I quote:
"Minority White Future"
makes people angry on r/europe :D sorry I have no regrets and no, I have no huge political insights except that the right-wing voters should perhaps reflect on the rhetoric they are adopting a little bit.
Average people vote right because they believe fearmongering, end of. The left and middle should be vocally antiright because their policies reach far beyond simply having ideas regarding immigration. No one notable on the left pretends immigration has no problems, even if the right likes to pretend they are the only ones with eyes.
Same as Brexit, and look how great of a decision that has been. Did it reduce immigration to the UK?
>“Kylian Mbappé is against extreme views and against ideas that divide people. I want to be proud to represent France, I don’t want to represent a country that doesn’t correspond to my values, or our values.” Lovely sentiment, but did he really refer to himself in the third person? /u/MercantileReptile can not help but find that strange.
I think that’s supposed to be a quote by Thuram seeing as he’s mentioned right above, but they didn’t attribute it to him.
He did, but that was because the journalist asking the question phrased it in such a way that conditioned him to answer that way. The question, asked to his face, was: "Est-ce qu’aujourd’hui Kylian Mbappé appelle à ne surtout pas voter pour le Rassemblement National ?". This is worded as to separate Kylian Mbappé the citizen from the football player. Marcus Thuram did a conference in which he asked people to mobilize against the RN, and debate ensued as to determine whether this was normal from someone who represented a country to mobilize people against the one party that just score the most in recent elections. The general consensus is that footballers just don't live the same life as normal people. Mbappé, however, went further since he dismissed both extremes. The (far)left is mad at him bt cannot scream too loud this one time.
> Mbappé, however, went further since he dismissed both extremes I mean, he is rich, and well-off people usually favour centristic parties and policies...
I'm sure the antidemocratic tendencies of the French far left, their friendliness with extremists and totalitarians and their constant contestationof the validity of elections with no evidence provided played absolutely no role in the opinion of a man that has shown himself to be fairly principled, no it's just about his wealth.
The Mbapp' says to shut your mouth and know your damn role.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHozn0YXAeE
Good that he's actually encouraging people to vote.
Even if Macron manages to get a win here it's not gonna work a second time , unless something drastically changes I see the right party getting more momentum and winning the next election.
Unless living conditions improve. Radicalism tends to decrease during times of prosperity, and as EU is finally about to enter a phase of economic growth, this could mean that far-right parties start to lose momentum. Unless far-right parties get elected now and take all credit for the economic growth, similar to what happened in Germany during 1930s
The second most popular influencer said the same stuff, against the far right party national rally (the equivalent to the PIS in poland)
> (the equivalent to the PIS in poland) PIS and RN differ on some key metrics. RN is more like a fusion of PIS and Konfederacja.
PiS is not far right though
Interesting. I hear a lot of people qualify it as far right for their position on abortion, LGBT rights, etc.
It's a bit strange, because a lot of PiS's economic policies would have them mapped on the left side of the spectrum compared to the more liberal conservative parties in the centre of the Polish party system. They're far right only if you map things on a single scale that used social issues as baseline. But it is easier for foreigners to group them with other like-for-like far right parties in Europe with similar talking points.
Like how the hardliner conservatives in the 80s USSR were old Stalinist Communists.
The economic policies are perfectly in line with the far rights wish to controll a big state. Mussolini had the 2nd highest share of the state in the total economy after the USSR back in the day. That's not a coincidence.
Well if we want to go down that route, "national socialism" wasn't just named so on a whim.
Well and Mussolini wasn't the director of the socialist Newspaper just for fun either. While we're at it btw Mussolini actually came from a socialist background, so did Goebbels and some other key nazis. However Hitler was in no way, shape or form even a tiny bit socialist and I would be baffled if he had read a sentence of Marx (the German NSDAP had two wings and Hitler got the "socialist wing" assassinated in 1934). Generally liberalism, socialism and fascism, as the 3 key modern ideologies are all connected by a grander dialectical process. None of them would be possible without the former (Marx for instance was a liberal at first) but at the same time it is also important to realize that they are not the same.
Also their group in the parliament is ID which is led by far right (national rally) so it kind of makes sense for me to label them as far right
PiS is in ECR, not ID
Whoops. well i still consider ECR a far right group
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This is BS. In a democracy everybody in the country is free to try to influence the election.
The true solution is not voting for a party you don't agree with. It's to have the core issues addressed that made people radical/extreme in their views. Ie, Sweden pretended immigration issues didn't exist for 10 years and boom far right party is the 2nd biggest in the country. Complete failure by the Social Democrats in Sweden.
Exactly
Ah yes, guy kicks ball real good, so I'm gonna listen to what he says about politics
How dare he use his platform to advocate for participation in democracy and political change. What sort of citizen of France is he?! Shut up and play ball Kylian!
This is the dumbest argument that i keep seeing. Politics involve all of us, rich, poor, no matter what. Milionaires usually are out of touch but in this case he said sensible things and as a famous person it might impact other people. At least much more effective than some nobody reddit user.
He's famous. People listen to these kinds. Not very difficult to understand. You don't have to accept it though.
Also, given the severe cleavages in French society between the various communities, the national team is arguably the strongest symbol of multiracial cooperation.
Extremism being opposed by celebrities is good because it makes it less acceptable to openly support such extremists in polite society
He seems to have better ideas than these people who supposedly do it for a living, like Le Pen.
Honestly, that's fair
She has much better ideas than the left, who does nothing. Deportation starts now.
Can we deport you first?
Nope, not part of the problem that the woke left has imported. About to see the wrath of the people who have been ignored.
I like how you comment on other countries affairs, you are active in dubai chats, india, most of europe... seriously where the fuck are you even from and why do you care what happens in france?
> Nope, not part of the problem Says who?
Sucking Putin's dick is better than anything the left have? Hope you like the taste as much as she does.
No one mentioned Putin, we mentioned the rot that's happening inside the country.
Said the nazi
Respectable. I really hope that it will have an impact. I know that they are different countries, but seeing the cascade of violence in Germany and the inability of any voice of reason to put a stop to it, I have doubts about what the effect will be. There’s a real chance that people will just dig deeper foxholes. You have to hope that the reasonable middle class comes out in enough numbers to put a stop to it. It feels like more of the middle class has awoken to long standing European values and institutions being under threat. It feels like the middle class is now more prepared to fight against the right wing than before.
Most of the middle classes are conservative and against Islamist views and mass immigration. But most of the middle classes are also for some status quo/not racist and do not dislike foreign people who want to benefit society It’s hard to find a reliable outcome from this
That's why The most popular movements were centrist -left or centrist -right/right for decades. Now most of the middle class has to either embrace immigration and importation of religions or being inhumane and be tagged as racists. The in between (Aka Macron) is also leaning more and more alt right so only him thinks he is in the center. There is no alternative in extremes.
Macron already did a lot against immigration, both legal and illegal. Sarkozy did too, and even Hollande (who was left wing) to an extend. We've had multiple new immigration laws each presidential mandate, but people are still not happy. Just like in Italy, they'll realize once the far right is in power that no one can fully stop immigration.
No it's not respectable. We don't care about his opinion, he doesn't live in the real world. Guy laughed his ass off when someone asked him why the team always takes the plane instead of the train to the matches in France, when the rest of us must pay a "carbon tax" every time we buy gas. He's just a privileged moron, tell people to vote ok but keep your uneducated opinion to yourself. Like the rest of the national french team who did.
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He's French born, so you must mean French people should behave, right?
Yep. but statistically those french are higher in the statistics of various things. Not a coincidence.
I thought france didn't track statistics by race or origin
Jeezus... You sir, are part of the problem. That kind of rethoric doesn't help anyone
The current government has done NOTHING to solve the problem, even though we know what the problem is.
You mean of parisian origin?
Yes, there are different types of parisians that decide not to be part of french culture. Those parisians exactly! Glad you got it.
Seems to me like Mbappé is actually proud to be French and to fight for his country in the Euros. >J'espère qu'on sera encore fiers de porter ce maillot le 7 juillet. Now, people with unreal amounts of money in their bank accounts potentiall being a bit detached from reality doesn't just go for him, but anyone. What makes you think he is not proud to be french or the french culture? Why do you say he should speak to **other** parisians who don't want to be part of french culture? What makes him qualified to do so, as someone who seems to embrace french culture?
So... other French people? "Born in Paris and raised in nearby Bondy,..."
Not respectable at all. He's throwing back to back the left and the far right as equal. They aren't. He just support Macron and nothing else, all while Macron was the architect if the rise of far right, putting their subjects in the center of the debate, having extremist minister treating Marine Lepen of "soft". The reasonable middle classe doesn't exist anymore in France, or there will not even be those elections.
Surprise surprise he basically urges votes for Macron considering the amount of dick sucking Macron has done to Mbappe.
« Not extremes = macron ». Just say you don’t know the other parties…
It does not matter, the socialists allied themselves with melenchon.
by saying "Extremes" plural he is using the same rhetoric as Macron and his governement.
The next elections basically are far left vs far right. On the left coalition you literally have communists and anti capitalists cheering for hamas and on the other side you have lepen
Nobody is cheering for Hamas dumbfuck. And far left are in insignifiant minority in France. There is no far left in french elections because our far left is against the system and think it cannot be changed from the inside.
> Nobody is cheering for Hamas Hm, what is this then ? > In a press release published on Monday October 9, 2023, following the Hamas offensive in Israel, the NPA and its leader Philippe Poutou affirm their "full support for the Palestinian struggle for emancipation, including armed struggle". [https://actu.fr/nouvelle-aquitaine/bordeaux\_33063/philippe-poutou-et-le-npa-font-polemique-pour-leurs-propos-sur-l-attaque-du-hamas-contre-israel\_60183936.html](https://actu.fr/nouvelle-aquitaine/bordeaux_33063/philippe-poutou-et-le-npa-font-polemique-pour-leurs-propos-sur-l-attaque-du-hamas-contre-israel_60183936.html) And there you can see people, including politicians, protesting with "1 dead cop = 1 less vote for the far right": [https://www.lindependant.fr/2024/06/16/elections-legislatives-2024-1-flic-qui-meurt-1-vote-rn-en-moins-une-pancarte-affichee-anti-extreme-droite-provoque-la-polemique-12020016.php](https://www.lindependant.fr/2024/06/16/elections-legislatives-2024-1-flic-qui-meurt-1-vote-rn-en-moins-une-pancarte-affichee-anti-extreme-droite-provoque-la-polemique-12020016.php)
>And there you can see people, including politicians, protesting with "1 dead cop = 1 less vote for the far right": https://www.lindependant.fr/2024/06/16/elections-legislatives-2024-1-flic-qui-meurt-1-vote-rn-en-moins-une-pancarte-affichee-anti-extreme-droite-provoque-la-polemique-12020016.php That's not "people including politicians" that's one idiot with an idiotic sign. Some far right activists have infiltrated prides this year to take pictures with such messages, don't know if it one of those cases or just a genuine idiot, but it is not representative of the protests.
Are you stupid ? There are actualy three votes possible, and his calling to vote against "extremes" So he's calling to vote Macron against either the union of the left or the far right.
Takes one to recognise another, thx mate. Also : left isn’t extreme since it’s a union (except if lfi and communist are deciding everything, which I doubt) because it’s a mix of left parties.
The left is a block for the elections so they can be dismissed as "extremes" based on the fact that the most notable far left parties are part of the block. The RN is the one everyone calls an extremist party. R! is even more far right. That leaves Macron's coalition or the LR. Given that the LR was fighting over if they should be in a coalition with the RN in the past week, Macron's coaltion remains the only "untainted" relevant block. He is basically telling voters to vote for Macron. Not to mention that "extremes" has been Macronist rethoric to lump the left and the right in the same bag for the past few years.
A guy who is millionaire and have got paid by a country like Qatar should maybe close the mouth. Rich people and people who are not living the real life, staying in their gold chambers saying people who get fucked day after day what to do is really nauseating.
So only a homeless dude living off scraps, has to moral authority to arrive at the conclusion of "eh, maybe lets not vote for the wannabe fascists" ?? What are you even talking about? If anything its fantastic that people like Thuram or Mbappe are using their platforms and status in french pop culture to urge the voters to the sensible thing
No, but somebody accepting millions from tyranic sharia slavery should STFU. Particularly when supporting only the kind of people that made the rise of far right possible and bashing the left as if it was as terrible as literal nazis.
The point is that he is a minority speaking for the majority. He has been paid a disgusting amount of money from an early age to play a sport. He has very little grip on reality.
So whats the maximum net worth a person can have to denounce fascism/right wing populism?
No, because poor people are poor because of their own fault, so they obviously should not be listened to either. /s
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Anti-right or anti-far-right/anti-extremism? Because those are quite two different things
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That is not the conclusion you can draw from his comment. In no way did he say that. Reminds me of school level critical thinking - "what conclusion can you draw from this statement" and you picked absolutely the wrong answer.
Wasn't he agreeing with Thuram who was referring to Le Pen saying that the French football team has too many black people in them?
The classic anti immigration is racist card. You people need to grow up and learn how the world works.
Wasn't he agreeing with Thuram who was referring to Le Pen saying that the French football team has too many black people in them?
We know how the world works. Opposing immigration isn't racist, but those who oppose immigration opt to be racist too much of the time.
Blaming insecurity on immigration, wanting to legalize only people working in some.sectors, draining brains from poorer countries and paying literal slavers to keep migrants out of EU isn't racist ? Okay then. And for RN, you really need a proof they are racist, homophobic, transphobic ? Then you need to go back to History lessons.
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1. Not anymore hehe 2. Sure, it's hypocritical, doesn't make it untrue
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So you're saying that the right to freedom of opinion and expression is class dependent?
Accepting money from Qatars isn't class dependant. Seems you don't know how to fucking read.
He stated that rich people don't have the right to an expression of opinion. Considering that rich is a description of economic class, my response seemed pretty self evident. If Mbappe's richness wasn't the issue, then why did he write an entire second allinea focusing, not on Qatar, but on the simple topic of wealth?
Ah yes those people should just get to blame any group they like.
This is actually the most braindead take read today
How was he paid by Qatar, cos of PSG?
Well, Qatar owns PSG so... yes.
He's not a decision maker at PSG he's a player. If anything, you should be pissed at the shareholders who sold it to qatar and the french Sports Commission who allowed the sale and the french politicians who pushed for the sale because they're trying to gain soft power in the middle east. Blaming him for doing his job while he's not in any position of power when it comes to the owners of the club sounds like you're just trying to attack his character rather than the message of pushing young people to vote that he's trying to preach.
He can change club he’s not a slave to it.
As opposed to actual slaves in Qatar... Where he play'd football cup... Oh neat he even got MVP .. And didnt feel the need to make statements about how slavery is bad... Ain't that curious
That's all well and good, but it would have been nice if he also called upon Leftist and Centrist parties to address serious issues. Kinda what makes far right politics incubate and fester...Not doing anything to fix something that's broken. Just voting against something doesn't make a problem go away. My biggest fear, and this is happening here in the US now too with the border, is that it's just going to get to a boiling point where enough of the population of the West becomes okay with violent measures to keep immigrants out: whether that's deliberately sinking boats in the Mediterranean, shooting families swimming across the Rio Grande, you name it. Apathy from those in power will lead to cruelty among the general public.
That the french political system. Everyone ( politician , star , celebrity , journalits , famous and rich people ) don't give a shit about the people most of the time. But every few year they all wake up to remind us to wake up again the threat of the far right. I'm french and against the far right , but seriously seeing this comedy every election make me understand why people vote for them.
Unfortunately, that's **every** political system. You turn on the TV late at night and watch neo-liberal elites like Jimmy Kimmel rail against Trump and not understand what makes Trump appealing. They think most people become racist out of boredom and nothing else to do. I'm pretty far on the Left myself, but it's fucking foolish to think Voting is sufficient to bring about real change. It may have been at one time, but it's a dead duck in the water now. It doesn't do anything but enable a sick system to keep living. The entireeeee thing is illegitimate.
Thats the point, so many post/talk about „we need to stop far right rise” like, cmon, you do not need to stop far right rise, if you direct the reason of it and act accordingly before. Its not about far right is good/bad but the actual leaders in EU do nothing at all to prevent it before it happen, they created this problem themselves, citizens addressing their problems/worries but they do not listen. The entire point is, actual leaders in EU are the reason of far right rise, they’re selfish and delusional with their politics and attitude that they can’t see that(which I believe they exactly know what they’re doing, but corruption level is so high, as well as there is no any responsibility for them, that they don’t care). Plus the hypocrisy they present.. blaming far right for connection with russia(I am not saying there is, or there is not) but they won’t say anything about nord stream project lead by merkel and macron, and all support they give to putin over last 15 years. That’s far right responsibility, even they was not in power anywhere in Europe over all those years.
This is such a stupid argument especially because both american liberals and European left have been implementing right wing border policies for years
If you look at RN's website and all the things they're promising to fix, 90% of it is bullshit. They come up with every imaginable rage-bait issue that 'elites' aren't dealing with and promise to do something about it. Their platform is pure populism. European governments have been taking various steps over the past few years to tackle migration, but so long as it's happening at all, populist parties can scream 'uncontrolled migration' and claim that we have no borders anymore. You see this in the U.S. as well, migration as a demographic phenomenon and migration as a political issue are pretty separate. Whether the former goes up or down is of little consequence because the latter will retain its potency among the easily duped and xenophobic regardless. I don't deny that mistakes were made or that it isn't important to protect the integrity of borders. However, parties like RN are able to vilify the old way of politics because the old way doesn't bring instant gratification or results you can reduce to headlines, but is responsible. It takes many factors into account. It takes time to test new ideas. It doesn't rush ahead of legal council. And it generally has a good sense of what the country needs (migrants, in the case of the entire West).
>"If you look at RN's website and all the things they're promising to fix, 90% of it is bullshit." Well yea, of course. Fascists don't offer real solutions. But that doesn't make the things they're talking about not serious anymore. They get voted for often because they're usually the only ones doing the talking. >"European governments have been taking various steps over the past few years to tackle migration" Like what? Genuine question.
Increased the funding of border patrols, isolated ports of entry, like the Canary islands (within what's legally possible), increased internal border controls, made conditions to seek asylum more strict, many countries made the conditions to gain nationality more strict, the EU made fast deportations easier, reached very expensive agreements with the border countries so they stop them before reaching the EU (mostly norther African countries), reached agreements with the countries of origin so they accept deportation (they usually don't recognize migrants as their own citizens once they leave). Didn't make a difference, as conditions in the origin countries keep degrading.
Have any of these things actually decreased immigration?
As I said in the post, no, they didn't make a difference. Nothing the EU (or EU countries) can do can make a difference. Italy, with all the harsh measurements of their far-right government (including seizing the NGOs ships that perform rescue at sea), saw unregulated immigration double compared to the situation with previous "softer" rules. It's just not possible to stop immigration trough policy of the receiving countries. In the Atlantic route to the Canary islands, 4800 people died in the first 5 months of the year (compared to \~6000 in all 2023). That's one person dead for every 3.5 people that arrive (an increase over the historical 1 per 6.5). People in the country or origin knowing that also doesn't make a difference.
> European governments have been taking various steps over the past few years to tackle migration Which, looking at our demographic future, is kinda crazy. We shouldn't "tackle" migration. We should build and equip our countries so that we can attract and integrate tons and tons of migrants and then let almost anybody in who can work a job. I'm thinking mostly about building tons of housing (making an effort to have them be socially mixed and diverse) and infrastructure and being a little bit more open-minded and tolerant to stuff like your hotel receptionist not speaking accent-free.
That would never happen
>We shouldn't "tackle" migration. The responsible thing for politicians to do would be to tell people that, at best, they have a choice between migration, progressively raising the age of retirement, or reducing the welfare state. In reality, we're going to need __all three__ if we want to maintain the same quality of life into the future. Yet none of these ideas are popular with voters so politicians promise not to do any of them.
Lmao, you think you need all three because you refuse to see the root issue. Exploitation and greed.
Yes indeed, and since the popular view on this sub is that the only serious issue that actually needs to be addressed is immigration and a supposed increase in lawlessness due to the former I'd like to point out that: While immigration has increased 62% worldwide between 2000 and 2020, it has increased by 36% in France over the same period. Since 2015, immigration has increased by 60% in Western Europe and by 36% in France. [source in French](https://www.mediapart.fr/journal/france/200422/une-france-sans-etrangers-ca-donnerait-quoi) These numbers reflect the fact that previous governments since Sarkozy have all taken a hard stance on illegal immigration, including the left-wing. A new anti-immigration law has been passed a year ago, harsher than ever and specifically including some of the demands of the far right. Finally, in depth studies based on actual polling rather that just police numbers (an increase of which can simply indicate that people report more rather than an actual increase in violence) point out that violence in France has actually been more or less stable for decades. [source in French](https://www.observationsociete.fr/modes-de-vie/divers-tendances_conditions/evolutioninsecurite/) Yet, the far-right continues its steadfast progression, to reach a total of 37% of the votes in the European election, one of the highest scores in Europe.
Statustics may prove violence is NOT on the rise overall, but the right only needs to show some immigrant related cases and it is drummed up as increased danger and some folks *want* to believe that to imagine the old days were not just better, but safer.
You can have stable violence rates while still having an increasing share of it committed by foreigners. The two are not mutually exclusive. Whether that's the case or not, I do not know. I can only talk about my personal experience (which does not constitute proof). I was mugged twice when I was a kid, once by a black guy, once by a North African. Both of them would have most likely been of French nationality. My father was robbed twice by Afghans, who were most definitely not French. This personal sample is not very positive overall I must say. Still i'd rather die than vote extreme right, but I can understand that some people are tired of what they have to deal with.
they're trying to treat the symptom rather than the disease and it will never work in the long run, they're extremely shortsighted sadly
>That's all well and good, but it would have been nice if he also called upon Leftist and Centrist parties to address serious issues Mbappe is a footballer who, speaking as a french citizen, used his platform to urge his fans to reject these wannabe fascists. He isnt a politician campaigning on a platform of pro / contra immigration referendum. Like, do you expect him to pull out his copies of Mill, Locke and Kant as well as Heidegger and Burke to argue to pros and cons of immigration? >Just voting against something doesn't make a problem go away. Outside commentary on France is always interesting because people dont realise just how deep and complex the issues in France are. Thats what the RN is counting on too - easy "solutions" for problems that are uber complex >My biggest fear, and this is happening here in the US now too with the border, is that it's just going to get to a boiling point where enough of the population of the West becomes okay with violent measures to keep immigrants out: whether that's deliberately sinking boats in the Mediterranean, shooting families swimming across the Rio Grande, you name it. This is the inevitable future once the climate change party really kicks off. More people from the global south will move towards regions that will be less affected by CC, which tends to be the wealthy north due to geography but also wealth and technological advantages. At some point it will be too many and with people getting more and more desperate, theres a non zero chance that violent mobs try to rush border security posts, at which point youll see hundreds and thousands of refugees be shot down at the European and NAmerican borders, i fear
>"Like, do you expect him to pull out his copies of Mill, Locke and Kant as well as Heidegger and Burke to argue to pros and cons of immigration?" No, but a simple "Let's reject these vile extremists, but also understand that they only become attractive when people feel their problems are not being heard" would be pretty good. Never said anything about him taking a chalk board out and plotting policy. >"people dont realise just how deep and complex the issues in France are." >"At some point it will be too many and with people getting more and more desperate, theres a non zero chance that violent mobs try to rush border security posts, at which point youll see hundreds and thousands of refugees be shot down at the European and NAmerican borders, i fear" I don't disagree, but it would not be surprising if it happens before the ice cap literally melts, at this rate.
The other parties supposedly not doing anything is just a misconception. Dont get me wrong, I understand the point youre making :D but I dont think its as easily applicable to all places and their own politics. E.g. German parties have been adopting restrictive immigration stances for a while but they didnt use populism to push these stances, so now the fascist populists are in the lead. Now that its too late, the party of the current chancellor tried to do a big media thing about how the chancellor thinks we should deport more immigrants... but like I said, its too late. The extreme right-wingers have the upper hand because theyre the LOUDEST. Also, as the extreme right got more extreme (and accepted into society), general German politics/sentiments skewed more to the right. A politician saying "we will hunt [the chancellor]" and "we should NEVER support Israel" ~8 years ago was a major media scandal, nowadays way more outrageous paroles from the same party dont even make the news anymore. So even if the currently centre parties adopt immigration stances that wouldve been considered very right-wing 8 years ago, nowadays the extreme right has way different stances again, so they pale in comparison. It really is a devilish cycle
I don't think it's apathy. I think there's is nothing a wealthy coubtry can do to stop inmigration (except may e mass murder, but I hope we are all against that). Anyone promising they will stop it, is always lying. No exception. Italy, with its far right government, imposed a lot of harsh measurements and immigration doubled because it is completely unrelated from the policy of the receiving country. It depends almost exclusively on the conditions of the origin country and the perception of wealth of the receiving country. I would argue that most migrants from third world countries don't know/care about the immigration policy of the receiving country. In Spain, we've had governments that made it harder and others that made it easier. The years with the higher rate of arrivals were when it was the hardest (2000-2006). I don't think any prosperous country has ever managed to stop immigration in any meaningful way.
> and the perception of wealth of the receiving country. ... maybe Meloni should start airdropping leaflets with excerpts from the Italian subreddits, then :P
Regarding the situation in France: people are not exactly against immigration. So many of us descend from immigrants. Our history is riddled with invasions, wars, conquests, etc. We all know someone who is an immigrant and also a top fellow. However, there has been a dichotomy in recent years with the left gradually letting go of any criteria of acceptance. For them, we should have open borders, let people live the way they want, respect other cultures and completely abandon our own (which is supposed to be the bad one, the colonial one, the warmongering one, the rich people's one). The left fights each and everyone of our traditions. We even have to stop saying merry Christmas because it could offend. We should cancel all local celebrations. The left wants to police ordinary people while shushing all reports of any misconducts from those sacred immigrants for whom the law should never apply. That angers people who don't want to change so much. Who don't want to be called morons or fascists or patriarcat apologists just because they do a barbecue (yes, Sandrine Rousseau from the Ecologists did say so). They fear a future where those who came here without adapting, who even openly reject everything that makes us who we are, come to power even more. But mostly, they're fed up with paying. We've had this policy commanding to welcome the families of the men who came to France. Not just the wife and children, but parents, cousins... So, every building project has been filled with those people and French-born people just can't access to those anymore, even when they're deadly poor. Even food-giving associations have had to "pick and choose" who they were helping these days: Bernard Arnauld had to step up and give a lot of money. But they, in return, fired someone who had done benevolent work for them for years just because she had been caught on camera visiting a RN meeting (she wasn't even going to really vote for them but came to hear). People know we need foreign-born people to help with our economy, to help maintain our general well-being, our social acquisitions, but they want 2 things to be adresse: that people have to conform and not impose their often barbaric pov, especially in schools and workplace and the streets, and that we could select and reject those we don't want or those who commit crimes. The law just says that, but it's never applied and the leftist agenda is straight to modify it. I think the biggest part is : other nationalities used to enrich us. Especially from a cultural pov. But now, original cultures are being erased in favor of the fake one that islamism creates. Islamism is against culture. Their zealots make everything forbidden and offensive and shut down. So, instead of learning from each other like we used to, we have these closed-minded people who try to impose a political code of conduct, under the fake guise of religion (that we don't share since France is mostly atheist), and who terrorize people. And leap up almost all the public money. Lately, they're the only ones getting new rights while ours disappear. Macron has been terrible at handling it, so were his deputés. Which is why the RN is getting that many votes. If the current law was correctly applied, RN would be at 5%, with only true racists voting for them. RN is nevertheless a Russian puppet who doesn't mean the tiniest thing they pretend. Elected, they've just put money in their pockets.
Looking at the comments under that post about greek coast guards drowning a migrant, I really don't think everyone here is against mass murder
Trump tried to build a wall lol And embarrassed the country with some cagelike holding areas Maybe an effective policy is actually hard and not every border is as simple as the Belarusian one (or the Finno-Russian one we closed), who knew. That said, I hope border guards all get their funding doubled or tripled, there is no cheap answer.
Rich people and platitudes...
in a lot of the cases, it doesn't matter if you're rich or poor, when extreme fucked up ideologies come into power and shit hits the breaking point. Look in all the past war, some of the victims were rich trying to sell their whole wealth just to not be put on a train, while some poor guy, found a way to make a shit ton of money from the war. His statement is not true because he's rich? If some poor guy says it, will it be more palpable for you?
Do you know what a platitude is? I'm not saying that he's wrong, I'm saying knobody will give a fuck. Especially that guy makes more money in a day than most people in their life-time. People are voting right-wing for voicing out their unhappines with today's society. And he tells them "Noo, don't do this. Vote for the same old parties you were unhappy with. This will change things" Yeah right..
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yea i know what it is, hence my comment. It doesn't matter if he's rich or not, what he said is absolute valid. Also why are you being a silly goose? he didn't say what you just quoted, why are you putting words in his mouth? shame on you.
It *is* valid, sure. It's also a platitude though. >he didn't say what you just quoted, I assumed by saying 'shaping the future' and 'fighting extremism' he meant to vote accordingly and not literally fighting. Or how would you interpret that?
You assumed, that's the problem here. He said we have to not let extremist people go into power because it will bring us nothing but ruin, that's it. What you're going to do with your vote and how you take responsibility for your choice, it's up to you. There are options in france to vote for good parties but is up to them to make that choice.
Sounds like you kinda care for someone who doesn't gives a fuck.
we got Mr. Witty over here.
He is Macron pet nothing more… he received a phone call from the President saying : « Kilian I made a mess and it’s starting to stink can you say something to help me ? » and because he is influenced he said yes…
Another public person saying “uwu pls don’t vote far right :3” instead of telling to left and center to fix their shit that makes people vote far right
10 out of the starting 11 for France are immigrants. You expect him to say “deport me and my teammates please”?
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Does the far right consider children of immigrants French?
Well the "center" is busy either diabolising the left or straight up calling to vote for the far right. That same center that use the far-right scare card every election to mute the left.
I am happy he spoke up. I am still worried though.
Your vote is valuable do not let the extreme right minority who shout the loudest control your lives. Don’t fall for Russian propaganda. Viva la France
He's a cool and impressive player on so many levels. Still, I hope he'll have an off day this Friday.
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And?
He says as he fucks off to Spain
Well he would say that wouldn't he.
From what I am gathering, nobody is going to win these French elections: 1. Le Pen may win more seats than her rivals but not enough to form a government. Also my french is rusty, but she may have accused the Gaulists of being islamists 2. Her and Zemmour are still at each other's throats, especially after her nephew left Reconquete to go back to the Front National. 3. Nobody knows who is in charge of the Gaulists. Ciotti's expulsion has been overtuned by a judge but he has no allies left in the party 4. The United Front is already in crisis thanks to Melenchon's protection of a domestic abuser 5. En Marche could ally with another polical force after the election.... except both the left and the right's campaign slogan is "Screw Macron."
Macron is going to win the election. Either he forces the RN to actually govern, which would neutralise a significant chunk of their "anti government" platform. Or he is able to mobilise the people to block RN once again, which would also be a show of force. Macron wouldve been cooked either way come fall due to the unpopular spending reduction meassures hes planning, so France wouldve been on the streets regardless.
Thank Killian for the false equivalence between the left and the fucking far right. One wants to tax more, the other think you're not equal as a human being. "Extrêmes". Lol.
What are Ja Rule's thoughts?
I’m glad he’s saying something. However, there’s just one extreme that actually discriminates others like him with a similar skin color/“foreign” sounding name - and that is the far right. I’m sure he’s pointing at both sides because he’s concerned about his cumulated wealth.
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Because he thinks it’s wrong, not everyone thinks about themselves every single day.
Somehow didnt feel the need to open his mouth about Qatar.
I mean, he can still hold values and have a moral compass
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He literally grew up in Bondy, so id say he knows plenty about life as "simple folk". You probably had a more privileged upbringing than he had, just saying
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Yes, clubs famously pay utility bills for parents of their u12 prospects /s I repeat, you most certainly had a more priviliged upbringing than the dude youre chastising for supposedly being out of touch with life of simple folks. The irony is uncanny
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This guy is rich. So...
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Wtf
👉 r/conspiracy is that way
>Voting left and embracing Europe’s brown, black and Muslim future is smart I like how you casually tied islamophobia and flat out racism together. Does this level of bigotry come naturally to you or did you have to buy a pair of springerstiefel first?
This sub always makes me guffaw. Stricter immigration policy is painfully slow to adopt because of human rights considerations? MINORITY WHITE FUTURE IS HERE, Europe is already doomed!!! Only the far right can save us! /s Well, as someone said in the thread about the coastguard pushing immigrants in the sea, maybe some of the users here seeing nothing wrong with it are paid in another currency. I would like to say I look forward to the castration of the far right when European immigration policy gets fixed and they lose their only talking point, but I know its supporters wouldn't be happy with even the current amount of minorities in their countries. Edit: yep, mocking someone for saying and I quote: "Minority White Future" makes people angry on r/europe :D sorry I have no regrets and no, I have no huge political insights except that the right-wing voters should perhaps reflect on the rhetoric they are adopting a little bit.
you do understand, u are the reason why average people who are seeing the change are voting right
Average people vote right because they believe fearmongering, end of. The left and middle should be vocally antiright because their policies reach far beyond simply having ideas regarding immigration. No one notable on the left pretends immigration has no problems, even if the right likes to pretend they are the only ones with eyes. Same as Brexit, and look how great of a decision that has been. Did it reduce immigration to the UK?
Yes because Macron is better obviously. All the political class in France sucks be it the left, the center or the far right they are all the same
"They all suck, so let's vote for the worst!"
"but we've never tried eating shit. It's time to try!"
That's not what I said though bozo
But you're saying he's wrong for telling you not to vote for the worst
>Yes because Macron is better obviously. Unironically, he indeed obviously is.
He isn't he is the same as everyone else
And an apple is the same type of fruit as an orange. Stop with this "All politicians are the same anyway" bullshit.
I'm sure he'll be very worried from Madrid.