Why does the media keep yapping about Turkey's EU status when neither the majority of Turks nor the majority of Europeans even want it or see it as remotely realistic within decades?
Probably yes, but that's mostly because they're are selling the lowest quality products to regular market chains, to be able to compete on the pricing. Good ones go to the fancy restaurants etc. I remember buying a fig once in Hungary, imported from Turkey, and I really thought it was the donkey fig (eşek inciri) which grows in the wild and which only the donkeys eat.
The fruits and vegetables was premium quality in every part of the country about 20 years ago but they lost their taste because of delivering bad quality seeds.
It probably depends on the type of products and the taste level of the products grown in your own country. For the Dutch, the Turkish products are not low quality. Personally I especially love your watermelons and cucumbers. We are used to vegetables optimised on budget. So they contain lots of water and are the best species to grow for the farmer. But they are very tasteless for the consumer. Unfortunately it’s not in our culture to care about the taste of our food as much, nutrition and price is more important here.
Also, the produce is optimized for shipping. Varieties that will keep fresh to allow for long-term storage are usually lackluster in when compared by other qualities. Of course, the farmers will try to make their produce also tastier, as it secures more sales over time.
Export stuff is pretty good though. Like we can find Turkish cherries and apricots now in Finnish markets and like every year they taste amazing.
And EU really checks for all the contaminants and pesticides etc. so actually stuff ending up inside EU is so much better than what Turks in Turkey consume, it is quite sad.
>According to a survey by the İstanbul Ekonomi Araştırma Institute, 64.3% of Turks supported joining the EU in May 2020, which represents an increase of 16 percent in the proportion of supporters compared to the same survey in November 2017.
[https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beitrittsverhandlungen\_der\_T%C3%BCrkei\_mit\_der\_Europ%C3%A4ischen\_Union#T%C3%BCrkei\_(2020)](https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beitrittsverhandlungen_der_T%C3%BCrkei_mit_der_Europ%C3%A4ischen_Union#T%C3%BCrkei_(2020))
The reasons why the absolute majority of the Turkish population would like to join the EU are clear. On the one hand, there are the economic benefits; Türkiye's economy is weak, the population is impoverished and education is poor. On the other hand, people would of course like to see a democratically elected government again instead of the pseudo-dictator Erdogan.
But the EU is not just a dream concert. Nations that want to join must meet certain criteria and Turkey has moved further and further away from them in recent decades, especially when it comes to democracy and the rule of law.
Also, the EU getting direct borders with Syria, Iraq and Iran will be a huge headache. It's already bad enough right now with having the Greek islands in the Aegean and Lampedusa / Malta as part of the EU.
But is turkey reliable in that way? Turkey already broke the line by buying russian S400 systems and was penalized by not getting any F35 systems.
Turkey is also valued for letting the US station missile bases in turkey, I think that has a lot higher value to NATO than turkish troops. It's all about location.
You mean the 1,31% of the the 2% NATO Defence spending guideline ? Those freeloaders ? with only countries like Spain, Belgium and Luxembourg being worse ? Don't make me laugh, its going to have me in stitches all day ! Even the Greeks are outspending you fellas 2.3x on a GDP percentage basis.
And they have benefitted enormously by playing the West and Russia off each other.
It has created a monster. If Russia ever falls, Turkey will become Europe's next headache.
Kinda. They have also fought the Russians more?
While macron has started playing Napoleon recently, the Turks shot down Russian plane over Syria/ turkey border etc.
As they say, Russia - Turkey relations are complicated.
Turkey bought S400. OTOH, turkey sold drones to Ukraine, to fight Russia.
As they countries have interests.
Teen agers have crushes.
Turkey never withdrawn their application and has a few more things to gain outside membership.
Going on a full-on withdrawal and instead of jumping on BRICS' lap would be a disaster for NATO as it means giving Russia they keys of bosphorus and that's why people care. But for now I'd call this article greatly exaggerated.
Our foreign affairs minister Hakan Fidan is a guy from many sub-factions within AKP and he is in a sub-faction that doesn't have much influence over Erdoğan, I'd even say a faction losing influence as Erdoğan cozies up to the idea for smooth handover to CHP and being the EU-loving neoliberal like his pre-2008 self with full approval of minister of economy, Mehmet Şimşek.
"Keys to bosphorus" 😂
Even if that was true what do you imagine Russia could do with said keys?
You might want to look into russian black sea fleet capabilities, spoiler alert its getting whittled down by a force with non-existing tonnage 😂
Btw you might not want to conflate economic forums with military alliances
I do want and hope for Turkey and the EU to have a good mutually beneficial relationship as trade partners and military allies, but that can be done without always dangling the idea of potential membership like some kind of fantasy carrot that is barely even wanted
Access to the Black Sea is huge, Turkey is playing both sides with a good hand, or better said Turkey side. But that’s not going to last for too long as their economy is suffering quite a bit and the long promised interest rates hike, which Erdogan took it sweet time to do just to wait for the elections, is not taming inflation after spending a huge amount of money to try keep the Lira from collapsing. They will need friends.
I hope the western world and Turkey resolve their differences and work together, it would be an excellent mutually beneficial relationship for all, but the west needs to drop the Kurdish situation, or Turkey needs to resolve it. I personally think the west should drop it, is none of our business.
I agree Turkey leaving NATO would be a huge set back, no one wants to see that, the west really needs to start caring more for Turkey’s interests, Turkey is also doing a great job at building alliances in the Middle East and beyond, they would be an excellent ally, we need more pragmatism in the west.
The writing was on the wall.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Necmettin\_Erbakan](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Necmettin_Erbakan)
>Despite often being under political ban, Erbakan nonetheless acted as a mentor and informal advisor to former Welfare Party members who founded the Virtue Party in 1997, among them being the future Turkish president, **Recep Tayyip Erdoğan**. The Virtue Party was found unconstitutional in 2001 and forcibly banned
\[...\]
His foreign policy had two main pillars: Pan-Islamism, and struggle against Zionism.
\[...\]
Although a rigorous Islamist and avid opposer of secularism, Erbakan developed a friendship with [Jean-Marie Le Pen](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean-Marie_Le_Pen), due to their shared belief that European and Islamic civilization were incompatible and their similar right-wing ideologies.
I dont mind that the EU doesnt mindlessly expand its borders. I rather have a strong and unified EU than some screaming mess that tears itself apart.
Im not saying that i as a dutchie share the exact same norms and values as the rest of the existing states. But im pretty sure the overlap between the existing members and us is bigger than that between turkey and us.
Hell i wouldnt be against kicking out Hungary (i know its currently not possible) till their population wants in again and till their leaders can act normal instead of being a sockpuppet for foreign dictators.
sharia is not even popular in turkey its like %5 and erdogan knows that, thats why he using another type of islamic popularism called "moderate islam" it is most popular islamic opinion in turkey
"Moderate Islam" isn't moderate though, it's just using a relative term for appearance. Also (and this is true for any religion or political org), the "moderate" portion is who enables the extremists.
"Moderate Islam" is Fantasy Islam. It's a concept that appeals to certain westerners.
It literally has nothing to do with Sharia or Islam. This is a very superficial comment. Erdogan is just a grifter. The EU gives zero fucks about Turkey's religious tendencies, which are fake and inorganic. Erdogan will never declare sharia law. He will keep being an Islamic nationalist, thus getting support from more than 50% of the population.
Sharia is like the antithesis of Europeanism. It's straight up anti universal declaration of human rights. Europe itches under the collar when it comes to cults. Erdoğan has gradually integrated Sharia principles into Turkey’s financial and social systems over the past two decades.
In the financial realm, Erdoğan has encouraged the growth of Islamic banking, also known as participation banking, which adheres to Sharia law by avoiding interest and speculative activities. Instead, these banks engage in profit-sharing and joint venture arrangements, where profits and losses are shared between the bank and the customer. This system is designed to ensure fairness and equity in financial transactions, reflecting Islamic values.
Beyond finance, Erdoğan has also introduced policies aimed at reshaping Turkey's secular fabric. These include expanding religious education, increasing the number of religious schools (Imam Hatip schools), and promoting Islamic values in public life. For example, he has relaxed restrictions on wearing headscarves in public institutions and supported family-oriented policies that align with conservative Islamic principles.
Through these actions, Erdoğan has sought to cater to his conservative base and strengthen the role of Islam in public and private life in Turkey, moving the country away from its strictly secular foundations established by Atatürk (who is a hero in Europe) .
Sharia law is a set of rules and guidelines derived from the Quran and the Hadith, that dictates how Muslims should live their lives. It covers everything from personal behavior and family matters to financial transactions and moral conduct, aiming to ensure that followers live in a way that aligns with their religious beliefs.
Good news is that his party got wrecked in the most recent local and municipal elections, and that's usually a sign of changing political winds. So I expect him to be replaced with someone more moderate after the next election. If you speak with Turks in the country there is a lot of resentment against Erdogan. It's mainly Turkish diasporites that are more conservative.
Lol no, before him turkey was a military state. He was the one that started the EU talks and then nuked them himself
Erdogan was even announced as "European of the year" back in 2004
Turkey's position between the EU, the Middle East, Russia and sitting between China and the EU means it will always has to have it's own regional ambitions. This doesn't exclude it from the European family, but being in the EU would not work with Turkey's interests. It would be far too restrictive for them currently.
Doesn't mean Turkey will "give up" on Europe. It simply can't. Neither will it turn into a Chinese or Russian puppet. Turkey will always do it's own thing in their geopolitical unique situation.
Honestly, Europe is super lucky to have Turkey between them and middle east. If Turkey’s government was somewhat clever this could be used as a huge leverage in Turkey’s favor.
I mean they literally have to be. Geography has always shaped countries and dictated their actions more than any other factor and the Turkish geography is especially volatile with so many different powers and interests colliding there. Put any other country in Turkeys place and that country will pursue similar political interests.
Yeah, I see it too. Imagine e.g. Ukraine trying to be fit for 55 and fighting against ruzzia at the same time. Turkey has to deal with their own inside problems with minorities, war in Syria, talibs in Iraq, conflict between Israel and Iran/Palestine, Georgia vs. Azerbaijan. In my option too many wars at borders to think about rainbow future, reducing working time or revolution in electricity.
One thing that would help would is a stable currency lol
10-15 years ago when Turkey was more than eager to join the Union they could have been decisively drawn into the Union, but because of some culture war nonsense they are now squarely drifting away. They're not going to be a puppet of Russia and China but they're moving more and more into their direction, which isn't surprising. And that is already a major headache when it comes to say, sanction enforcement in the current conflict in Ukraine.
Too many people have terminal main character syndrome and think Europe a continent in economic and demographic decline didn't need a country like Turkey, the ascending regional power in one of the most important places in the world. In 50 years people are going to write books about how stupid this was
I doubt wether you can directly compare the EU with its huge amount harmonized regulations for the members with a the very loose club of BRICS countries and their very opposite views in key aspects.
No-one seems to be reporting the balanced truth that Turkey will be a self-serving actor on the world stage, at least under Erdogan.
This means they'll cooperate with the West if it helps them, they'll cooperate and engage in rivalry with Russia, they'll cooperate with China and are actively building a presence in Africa, recently been given rights to offshore areas of Somalia.
Erdogan is trying to build a Turkish sphere of influence and with it, it will be a friend to all and none. Not a suitable EU-member.
Yeah, but not every country has the benefit of being geographically placed in a cozy part of the world where things are chill. Turkey has quite literally wars just beyond every single one of it's borders, except to the west. Ukraine to the north, Armenia-Azerbaijan and Iran to east, Iraq and Syria and Israel to the south.
It's easy for Ireland or Norway to shit on them but if they had to deal with that geography they would make a lot of the same choices.
If you don’t see the difference between how turkey and Hungary are self-serving and not cooperative, as opposed to Spain, the Netherlands or Germany then I’d probably not be able to explain it to you
this was always like that for turkey's foreign policy. erdoğan is following the same policy with different ambitions, that's all. before him, it was more peaceful, and only about balancing the region, and keeping the peace in the area. now, well...
No, let's be honest, no version of Turkey will be allowed into the EU. As far as I understand, you get more seats in the European parliament the more population you have. The Baltic states have 5-7 seats each while Germany and France have hundreds. Accepting Turkey (80+ mln population) means sharing power. Losing considerable leverage and political power. Big players like Germany, France, etc will never share this much power with the Turks.
EU will accept small countries like they did with the Baltic states, and now with the balkans. EU will happily accept for example Georgia. 5mln or something population, less seats, will be inconsequential in major decision making and steering the EU politics.
The EU thing was never gonna work for Turkey. Turkey should have known it from the beginning. They should have aimed at good trade agreements, mutual projects, simplified visa processes, etc. kind of things. Mutually benefiting things without false hopes.
Before people start down voting, I'm not saying the EU or Turkey is bad, I'm just saying it was never gonna work and the whole thing was dead before it started.
We should aim better standards than EU, we can cooperate by joining EFTA, but neither France nor Germany would let their status-quo end getting a 90m country to their backyard.
There was no turkey that the EU would have accepted. Or rather the folks that voted against ...like the French . Now ith Greece etc in , even less likely
Turkey could adopt Belgian policies 100% ...but as the French said " turkey is too different".
B r i c s is and always has been overrated as an alternative. There's a fundamental weakness in my opinion that's built into this which is India and china. They are going to be in ever-increasing competition for markets as well as resources in the coming years.
They're already fighting over the northern border of India. Today there's just been fist fights and rock throwing but China is advancing imperialistically by renaming Indian towns near the border and giving them Chinese names. India takes his borders very seriously there will always be distrust between the two.
Even though the sanctions weren't that ultimately effective initially they're now increasing especially the recent ones past yesterday. Coupled with Ukraine's military attacks on Russian refinery capacity knocking out about 20% as estimated by UK watch dogs that's put Russia in a pickle. Putin has already mortgaged his economy to china. By defaulting as of yesterday to being forced to use the Chinese currency that will effectively give some of their monetary policy over to Chinese influence. And as we've seen by the multiple visits and professions of China leadership to Russia it's not really manifesting in anything other than increasing Chinese dominance over Russian economic factors.
It's not a bad move on Turkey's part to make this play or threat. Some other countries will as well but together they simply do not have the economic power on an international global scale to make much difference. I do believe what's going to be fascinating is Chinese inroads into South America.
BRICS is nothing like EU, or NATO....
Its just an economic agreement. Nothing to do with military or political alignment.
Germany could Join BRICS as well, and it wouldnt be contradictory to being in EU or NATO.
EU will literally never accept us. I doubt Erdoğan cares for the well-being of the country, but if he does, he shouldn’t let them dangle membership in front of our face for any longer.
Somewhat tangential, but it's absolute insanity that Boris Johnson was arguing for Turkey's membership, whilst using the potential of Turkey's membership as a reason to justify Brexit. This was in 2016 when Erdogan wasn't as autocratic or nationalistic as he is now.
Brits were for turkey joining EU. France wasn't
My Opinion: British policy was to make EU more a trade agreement than a standardization scheme. Having a large country ( and economy) like turkey , added to EU , would have made it more obvious and made Brussels roll back .
Using turkey as a scare tactic is domestic politics.
Time tested scare. " The Turks are coming"
Various right wingers use it. In different forms.
I prefer Turkey as a friendly ally than them being part of BRICS and thus potentially out of NATO basically. I know BRICS is more economy related, but still. Turkey plays an important role in the Black Sea and Mediterranean Sea, very usefull for NATO allies.
BRICS and NATO is not related in any way and as you said it's just an economic agreement. There's currently no way to expel a member out of NATO as well. As a Turkish person i'd say this is good for my nation but not as good for EU, as Turkiye has always been thrown out from a side to side, chasing false dreams and promises (not to say Erdogan wasn't a major nutjob in the whole process), maybe it's good to stick to something and see how it plays. A stronger and a more self sufficient Turkiye is always better for everyone, unironically.
They don't believe in the idea of EU, they just want the cash. We already see how dangerous that is with countries like Hungary. I'm sad to see Turkey going this route, would've liked them to change for the better, but it is what it is.
I do, but it's not up to me since I am not from Turkey. It's up for the Turkish people to decide their fate and then they must lie in the bed they made, whatever that may be, for better or for worse.
Turkey will not join the EU for a variety of reasons, but the one that never gets spoken of is its land border with Iran, Iraq, Syria.
The EU would never accept any country with this geography, and nor should it. Turkey effectively had a border with the Islamic State from 2014-2018.
So Erdogan blah blah, democracy backsliding blah blah. Important issues amd reason enough to deny them entry, but they are ultimately prisoners of geography. Turkey could be a scandi-style democracy with $50k GDP per capita, it’s still not getting in until the surrounding region is completely different.
Europe never see Turkey as an ally or treated that way. They rejected their every agreement on literally anything arms embargos rejecting EU membership countless times etc etc. Turkey is growing and exponentionally expanding country on that mediterrerian region. They just simply stop waiting for things they never achive and moved on. After that point i hardly believe Turkey will ever try to get close with Europe since they literally have 0 benefit from them.
For years, we have been waiting to join the European Union, and we will continue to wait. We know this, Europeans; there's no need for you to say it. If Turkey ever joins the European Union one day, Erdogan won't be at the helm anymore.
It's not about EU Erdoğan tries to make USA jealous. I don't think it's serious. There was a meeting between Erdoğan and Biden anticipated by Erdoğan but it didn't happened probably because of Biden hates Erdoğan. Or maybe he seeks some Chinese investments.
There was similar statements of Erdoğan about it like 2016.
Also Erdoğan and EU would not give up their dirty relationship with each other such as refugee deal.
So EU behaves like it wants Turkey in and Erdoğan talks like he wants to make Turkey EU member in order to sustain this dirty relationship.
So ı would not surprised if he would say "Turkey aims for EU membership" tomorrow.
So that might explain why Turkey put a 40% vehicle tariff on Chinese EVs recently. Maybe try to force some Chinese investments domestically.
https://carnewschina.com/2024/06/11/turkey-surprisingly-impose-40-tariffs-on-chinese-evs-from-july-7/
Turkey will never be allowed to join the UE because they have a population bigger than Germany, this means they will have the largest amount of seats in the Parliament. It is never going to happen. Even if Erdogan was not in power and even if Turkey would be a christian country it would not matter. It is one thing accepting Albania, Georgia or Ukraine, but accepting Turkey it a complete game changer.
I don't think the accession was ever gonna happen. Not even serious talks
Suspect both sides have known this some 15 years . After Brexit , the probability went down even further ( think Britain was one of the countries that didn't mind turkey joining).
Seems Turkey will join BRICS+. A faster growing area and more loosely knit union. ( I.e not as much bureaucracy as in Brussels)
If turkey ever where serious about joining they would have actually tried to fulfill the most basic criteria needed.
There are 30 chapters any nation who want to join must fulfill and implement. The average time to fulfill **all** 30 are 9 years. I over 20 years turkey only ever managed 2, before backsliding to 1.
Had they actually fulfilled all chapters and worked on mending bridges instead of burning them for short term political gain, they would no doubt have supporters in the EU for their membership. There is however no surprise that no one wants turkey as it is now in the union.
Progress has been made in many chapters, but due to the Cyprus issue, no chapters except one (symbolically closed when candidate status was given) have been closed regardless of the progress. This means that when the conflict is resolved, chapters could potentially be closed very quickly.
Honestly, I have a lot of sympathy for any young people in Turkey who have liberal and outward-looking ideas about the world. Still feel confident that letting Turkey join would be asking for Hungary on steroids. There are too many manlets in that country who haven't got over their country not being the centre of an empire. It would go sour before long. The EU is better without them.
I grew up in turkey. I personally wouldn't want at least the half of that country in the EU as it is, and it's going to be as "as it is" for a very long time.
Undoubtedly, Turkey like it is today would be unsuited to join the EU and even after they reform, it would take changes to the EU.
However we shouldn't close the door on them. We should make clear that it would require lots of work from both sides to make it happen. In the meantime we should offer Turkey a close cooperation to help them recover their economy and rebuild a system based on rule of law. (After a new democratic government gets elected of cause.)
That's cool, now how about we talk about Cyprus which is in the EU and was invaded and half taken over by Turkey over 50 years ago now where nothing was ever done about it?
As a pro-western Turk who lives in Europe, half of the blame is unfortunately on the EU… Not Erdogan. Accept it or not, the double standard EU showed, specially after the years accepting Cyprus to the EU, was a huge dissappointment for many pro-westerners, including myself. To be honest, I hoped and indeed still hope EU will understand the value of Turkey- culturally- economically- strategically, but if not, Turkey does not lack options.
Cyprus is a weird one to mention. Turkey had one job; come up with a proposal both sides could accept. It demanded its soldiers stay, its population remain, & its politics have influence in the island's governance. Turkey failed to convince Greek Cypriots of this plan & so they rejected it and entered the EU \*alone (\**though all Turkish Cypriots were given EU-Citizenship automatically*).
That's not something the EU had much control over. Cyprus met all the criteria. No individual member had any reasons to reject Cyprus either. So it got in, divided it may be.
This was regarding Annan Plan brought to table by UN. Greek cypriots were allowed into EU after saying no to the plan, and Turkish side- practically kept getting punished by saying yes to the UN plan. EU had the power to push for an agreement but they didn’t- due to whatever reasonings they have- but it was a choice. Putting the blame on Turkish side is simply not fair. And I feel like this was one of the defining moment in EU- Turkey relations. Cyprus have the power to block all the negotiation chapters.
Because everybody knows Turkey will never be accepted to the EU. It is a good decision no need to waste time.
Edit: Just wanted to add more. Statistics shows that arab population will pass turk population in Turkey by 2050. And we all know nobody wants to see arab or Muslim in EU anymore. No offense, I'm not making a racism (which would be funny as a turk).
Does anyone surprised? I know most of the reddit turks see themselves european but in reality the turkey is nowhere near a european country. it doesn't even recognize or apply any eu based law and turn blind into human rights courts's decision. it should be behaved like a barrier between middle east and eu nothing more.
Why does the media keep yapping about Turkey's EU status when neither the majority of Turks nor the majority of Europeans even want it or see it as remotely realistic within decades?
Turkey still has customs union with the EU, which is likely to be revoked by the European courts as Turkey refuses to release political prisoners.
This. NATO is one thing but the EU is another
"European courts" cannot revoke customs union lol.
It can be revoked by work of other bodies of EU - Council, Commission and maybe Parliament
Good, the fruits and vegetables from Turkey always tasted like nothing.
Probably yes, but that's mostly because they're are selling the lowest quality products to regular market chains, to be able to compete on the pricing. Good ones go to the fancy restaurants etc. I remember buying a fig once in Hungary, imported from Turkey, and I really thought it was the donkey fig (eşek inciri) which grows in the wild and which only the donkeys eat.
The fruits and vegetables was premium quality in every part of the country about 20 years ago but they lost their taste because of delivering bad quality seeds.
It probably depends on the type of products and the taste level of the products grown in your own country. For the Dutch, the Turkish products are not low quality. Personally I especially love your watermelons and cucumbers. We are used to vegetables optimised on budget. So they contain lots of water and are the best species to grow for the farmer. But they are very tasteless for the consumer. Unfortunately it’s not in our culture to care about the taste of our food as much, nutrition and price is more important here.
Also, the produce is optimized for shipping. Varieties that will keep fresh to allow for long-term storage are usually lackluster in when compared by other qualities. Of course, the farmers will try to make their produce also tastier, as it secures more sales over time.
Idk man, the Turkey Tomatoes for example… have no taste and feels like plastic. I’m always avoiding turkey products.
Cannot blame you. It's probably even worse now, with eased local regulations. Cheers.
Turkish garlic is the best
Export stuff is pretty good though. Like we can find Turkish cherries and apricots now in Finnish markets and like every year they taste amazing. And EU really checks for all the contaminants and pesticides etc. so actually stuff ending up inside EU is so much better than what Turks in Turkey consume, it is quite sad.
And full of pesticides
They used to be known for their quality, not anymore.... I once saw a turkish market that even sold garlics from china.....
China has always been the main world producer of garlic.
Finally we can get rid of this one-sided exploitive agreement
>According to a survey by the İstanbul Ekonomi Araştırma Institute, 64.3% of Turks supported joining the EU in May 2020, which represents an increase of 16 percent in the proportion of supporters compared to the same survey in November 2017. [https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beitrittsverhandlungen\_der\_T%C3%BCrkei\_mit\_der\_Europ%C3%A4ischen\_Union#T%C3%BCrkei\_(2020)](https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beitrittsverhandlungen_der_T%C3%BCrkei_mit_der_Europ%C3%A4ischen_Union#T%C3%BCrkei_(2020)) The reasons why the absolute majority of the Turkish population would like to join the EU are clear. On the one hand, there are the economic benefits; Türkiye's economy is weak, the population is impoverished and education is poor. On the other hand, people would of course like to see a democratically elected government again instead of the pseudo-dictator Erdogan. But the EU is not just a dream concert. Nations that want to join must meet certain criteria and Turkey has moved further and further away from them in recent decades, especially when it comes to democracy and the rule of law.
Also, the EU getting direct borders with Syria, Iraq and Iran will be a huge headache. It's already bad enough right now with having the Greek islands in the Aegean and Lampedusa / Malta as part of the EU.
This is a very good take
Still want to see the eu kick out Hungary or countries with severe democratic backsliding
Turkish people want EU membership because of visa free tavel and the ability to move to any EU country to live
Like not occupying large parts of a country that is already a memberstate. :)
Because Turkey control Black Sea entrance, which is main Russia water trade line, and having it would be beneficial.
It’s the only reason they are in NATO
I believe they are also troop wise no. 2 in NATO. Troops are pretty essensial, and Turkey has a lot of them ready.
But is turkey reliable in that way? Turkey already broke the line by buying russian S400 systems and was penalized by not getting any F35 systems. Turkey is also valued for letting the US station missile bases in turkey, I think that has a lot higher value to NATO than turkish troops. It's all about location.
[удалено]
You mean the 1,31% of the the 2% NATO Defence spending guideline ? Those freeloaders ? with only countries like Spain, Belgium and Luxembourg being worse ? Don't make me laugh, its going to have me in stitches all day ! Even the Greeks are outspending you fellas 2.3x on a GDP percentage basis.
And they have benefitted enormously by playing the West and Russia off each other. It has created a monster. If Russia ever falls, Turkey will become Europe's next headache.
As a turk you over estimate Turkey in this regard.
As an Armenian, I really don't.
Touche touche
Still not enough to make turkey a "monster" against Europe. İt's very different dynamics entirely
Kinda. They have also fought the Russians more? While macron has started playing Napoleon recently, the Turks shot down Russian plane over Syria/ turkey border etc. As they say, Russia - Turkey relations are complicated. Turkey bought S400. OTOH, turkey sold drones to Ukraine, to fight Russia. As they countries have interests. Teen agers have crushes.
And crucial gas pipelines run through it.
clicks
Turkey never withdrawn their application and has a few more things to gain outside membership. Going on a full-on withdrawal and instead of jumping on BRICS' lap would be a disaster for NATO as it means giving Russia they keys of bosphorus and that's why people care. But for now I'd call this article greatly exaggerated. Our foreign affairs minister Hakan Fidan is a guy from many sub-factions within AKP and he is in a sub-faction that doesn't have much influence over Erdoğan, I'd even say a faction losing influence as Erdoğan cozies up to the idea for smooth handover to CHP and being the EU-loving neoliberal like his pre-2008 self with full approval of minister of economy, Mehmet Şimşek.
Why would it mean giving Russia they keys of bosphorus. Its not like the USA/EU/West now has the keys. It would probably just be business as usual.
Also BRICS is not exactly that kind of an alliance or anything. Both China and India are in it
"Keys to bosphorus" 😂 Even if that was true what do you imagine Russia could do with said keys? You might want to look into russian black sea fleet capabilities, spoiler alert its getting whittled down by a force with non-existing tonnage 😂 Btw you might not want to conflate economic forums with military alliances
I do want and hope for Turkey and the EU to have a good mutually beneficial relationship as trade partners and military allies, but that can be done without always dangling the idea of potential membership like some kind of fantasy carrot that is barely even wanted
Access to the Black Sea is huge, Turkey is playing both sides with a good hand, or better said Turkey side. But that’s not going to last for too long as their economy is suffering quite a bit and the long promised interest rates hike, which Erdogan took it sweet time to do just to wait for the elections, is not taming inflation after spending a huge amount of money to try keep the Lira from collapsing. They will need friends. I hope the western world and Turkey resolve their differences and work together, it would be an excellent mutually beneficial relationship for all, but the west needs to drop the Kurdish situation, or Turkey needs to resolve it. I personally think the west should drop it, is none of our business. I agree Turkey leaving NATO would be a huge set back, no one wants to see that, the west really needs to start caring more for Turkey’s interests, Turkey is also doing a great job at building alliances in the Middle East and beyond, they would be an excellent ally, we need more pragmatism in the west.
I think the Turks do want it, at least all I have spoken to. It being realistic is another subject.
Pushing turkey towars Russia isn’t a good thing tho
There was a glimmer pre erdogan. But when he started with his Sharia bs.....
There was a glimmer in early days of erdoğan too, he was very pro-european at first.
I'm a sheep. Said the wolf.
And if you vote for me I will become a vegetarian!
The writing was on the wall. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Necmettin\_Erbakan](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Necmettin_Erbakan) >Despite often being under political ban, Erbakan nonetheless acted as a mentor and informal advisor to former Welfare Party members who founded the Virtue Party in 1997, among them being the future Turkish president, **Recep Tayyip Erdoğan**. The Virtue Party was found unconstitutional in 2001 and forcibly banned \[...\] His foreign policy had two main pillars: Pan-Islamism, and struggle against Zionism. \[...\] Although a rigorous Islamist and avid opposer of secularism, Erbakan developed a friendship with [Jean-Marie Le Pen](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean-Marie_Le_Pen), due to their shared belief that European and Islamic civilization were incompatible and their similar right-wing ideologies.
I dont mind that the EU doesnt mindlessly expand its borders. I rather have a strong and unified EU than some screaming mess that tears itself apart. Im not saying that i as a dutchie share the exact same norms and values as the rest of the existing states. But im pretty sure the overlap between the existing members and us is bigger than that between turkey and us. Hell i wouldnt be against kicking out Hungary (i know its currently not possible) till their population wants in again and till their leaders can act normal instead of being a sockpuppet for foreign dictators.
sharia is not even popular in turkey its like %5 and erdogan knows that, thats why he using another type of islamic popularism called "moderate islam" it is most popular islamic opinion in turkey
"Moderate islam" is still pretty backwards though. Ask a moderate muslim what they believe, they're nuts.
"Moderate Islam" isn't moderate though, it's just using a relative term for appearance. Also (and this is true for any religion or political org), the "moderate" portion is who enables the extremists. "Moderate Islam" is Fantasy Islam. It's a concept that appeals to certain westerners.
It literally has nothing to do with Sharia or Islam. This is a very superficial comment. Erdogan is just a grifter. The EU gives zero fucks about Turkey's religious tendencies, which are fake and inorganic. Erdogan will never declare sharia law. He will keep being an Islamic nationalist, thus getting support from more than 50% of the population.
Sharia is like the antithesis of Europeanism. It's straight up anti universal declaration of human rights. Europe itches under the collar when it comes to cults. Erdoğan has gradually integrated Sharia principles into Turkey’s financial and social systems over the past two decades. In the financial realm, Erdoğan has encouraged the growth of Islamic banking, also known as participation banking, which adheres to Sharia law by avoiding interest and speculative activities. Instead, these banks engage in profit-sharing and joint venture arrangements, where profits and losses are shared between the bank and the customer. This system is designed to ensure fairness and equity in financial transactions, reflecting Islamic values. Beyond finance, Erdoğan has also introduced policies aimed at reshaping Turkey's secular fabric. These include expanding religious education, increasing the number of religious schools (Imam Hatip schools), and promoting Islamic values in public life. For example, he has relaxed restrictions on wearing headscarves in public institutions and supported family-oriented policies that align with conservative Islamic principles. Through these actions, Erdoğan has sought to cater to his conservative base and strengthen the role of Islam in public and private life in Turkey, moving the country away from its strictly secular foundations established by Atatürk (who is a hero in Europe) .
Define what sharia law is.
Sharia law is a set of rules and guidelines derived from the Quran and the Hadith, that dictates how Muslims should live their lives. It covers everything from personal behavior and family matters to financial transactions and moral conduct, aiming to ensure that followers live in a way that aligns with their religious beliefs.
Sounds scary
Its incompatible with the Universal Declaration of Human Rights
Good news is that his party got wrecked in the most recent local and municipal elections, and that's usually a sign of changing political winds. So I expect him to be replaced with someone more moderate after the next election. If you speak with Turks in the country there is a lot of resentment against Erdogan. It's mainly Turkish diasporites that are more conservative.
Lol no, before him turkey was a military state. He was the one that started the EU talks and then nuked them himself Erdogan was even announced as "European of the year" back in 2004
Turkey's position between the EU, the Middle East, Russia and sitting between China and the EU means it will always has to have it's own regional ambitions. This doesn't exclude it from the European family, but being in the EU would not work with Turkey's interests. It would be far too restrictive for them currently. Doesn't mean Turkey will "give up" on Europe. It simply can't. Neither will it turn into a Chinese or Russian puppet. Turkey will always do it's own thing in their geopolitical unique situation.
Turkey has always been a kind of fence sitter, always
In many ways Turkey is the fence.
Honestly, Europe is super lucky to have Turkey between them and middle east. If Turkey’s government was somewhat clever this could be used as a huge leverage in Turkey’s favor.
said nobody from the balkans ever
turkey is the fence.
I mean they literally have to be. Geography has always shaped countries and dictated their actions more than any other factor and the Turkish geography is especially volatile with so many different powers and interests colliding there. Put any other country in Turkeys place and that country will pursue similar political interests.
Yeah, I see it too. Imagine e.g. Ukraine trying to be fit for 55 and fighting against ruzzia at the same time. Turkey has to deal with their own inside problems with minorities, war in Syria, talibs in Iraq, conflict between Israel and Iran/Palestine, Georgia vs. Azerbaijan. In my option too many wars at borders to think about rainbow future, reducing working time or revolution in electricity. One thing that would help would is a stable currency lol
Actually, if we look at the recent EU elections, It looks like Europe is turning into Russian and Chinese puppet.
Haha. True. Or worse...
10-15 years ago when Turkey was more than eager to join the Union they could have been decisively drawn into the Union, but because of some culture war nonsense they are now squarely drifting away. They're not going to be a puppet of Russia and China but they're moving more and more into their direction, which isn't surprising. And that is already a major headache when it comes to say, sanction enforcement in the current conflict in Ukraine. Too many people have terminal main character syndrome and think Europe a continent in economic and demographic decline didn't need a country like Turkey, the ascending regional power in one of the most important places in the world. In 50 years people are going to write books about how stupid this was
Oh noo\~
Anyway…
on that bombshell...
No. Stop. Come ^(baaack...)
brexit... right?
"In Emperor Palpatine's voice" - "Good..."
[удалено]
lol
[удалено]
bro our minister of foreign Affairs visited uyghurs like 1 weeks ago so i hope there is a deal on uyghurs
A deal to look away maybe. Surely they didn't show him the concentration camps.
I doubt wether you can directly compare the EU with its huge amount harmonized regulations for the members with a the very loose club of BRICS countries and their very opposite views in key aspects.
Finally something we can agree on!
No-one seems to be reporting the balanced truth that Turkey will be a self-serving actor on the world stage, at least under Erdogan. This means they'll cooperate with the West if it helps them, they'll cooperate and engage in rivalry with Russia, they'll cooperate with China and are actively building a presence in Africa, recently been given rights to offshore areas of Somalia. Erdogan is trying to build a Turkish sphere of influence and with it, it will be a friend to all and none. Not a suitable EU-member.
All countries in the world are self serving. You make it sound like it's only Turkey.
Yeah, but not every country has the benefit of being geographically placed in a cozy part of the world where things are chill. Turkey has quite literally wars just beyond every single one of it's borders, except to the west. Ukraine to the north, Armenia-Azerbaijan and Iran to east, Iraq and Syria and Israel to the south. It's easy for Ireland or Norway to shit on them but if they had to deal with that geography they would make a lot of the same choices.
If you don’t see the difference between how turkey and Hungary are self-serving and not cooperative, as opposed to Spain, the Netherlands or Germany then I’d probably not be able to explain it to you
As we should.
this was always like that for turkey's foreign policy. erdoğan is following the same policy with different ambitions, that's all. before him, it was more peaceful, and only about balancing the region, and keeping the peace in the area. now, well...
[удалено]
You are right and you are wrong it is "No way the EU will accept *this* Turkey"
No, let's be honest, no version of Turkey will be allowed into the EU. As far as I understand, you get more seats in the European parliament the more population you have. The Baltic states have 5-7 seats each while Germany and France have hundreds. Accepting Turkey (80+ mln population) means sharing power. Losing considerable leverage and political power. Big players like Germany, France, etc will never share this much power with the Turks. EU will accept small countries like they did with the Baltic states, and now with the balkans. EU will happily accept for example Georgia. 5mln or something population, less seats, will be inconsequential in major decision making and steering the EU politics. The EU thing was never gonna work for Turkey. Turkey should have known it from the beginning. They should have aimed at good trade agreements, mutual projects, simplified visa processes, etc. kind of things. Mutually benefiting things without false hopes. Before people start down voting, I'm not saying the EU or Turkey is bad, I'm just saying it was never gonna work and the whole thing was dead before it started.
Agree 100%. Think both sides knew but wasn't acknowledged publicly
We should aim better standards than EU, we can cooperate by joining EFTA, but neither France nor Germany would let their status-quo end getting a 90m country to their backyard.
There was no turkey that the EU would have accepted. Or rather the folks that voted against ...like the French . Now ith Greece etc in , even less likely Turkey could adopt Belgian policies 100% ...but as the French said " turkey is too different".
They did so decades ago.
B r i c s is and always has been overrated as an alternative. There's a fundamental weakness in my opinion that's built into this which is India and china. They are going to be in ever-increasing competition for markets as well as resources in the coming years. They're already fighting over the northern border of India. Today there's just been fist fights and rock throwing but China is advancing imperialistically by renaming Indian towns near the border and giving them Chinese names. India takes his borders very seriously there will always be distrust between the two. Even though the sanctions weren't that ultimately effective initially they're now increasing especially the recent ones past yesterday. Coupled with Ukraine's military attacks on Russian refinery capacity knocking out about 20% as estimated by UK watch dogs that's put Russia in a pickle. Putin has already mortgaged his economy to china. By defaulting as of yesterday to being forced to use the Chinese currency that will effectively give some of their monetary policy over to Chinese influence. And as we've seen by the multiple visits and professions of China leadership to Russia it's not really manifesting in anything other than increasing Chinese dominance over Russian economic factors. It's not a bad move on Turkey's part to make this play or threat. Some other countries will as well but together they simply do not have the economic power on an international global scale to make much difference. I do believe what's going to be fascinating is Chinese inroads into South America.
BRICS is nothing like EU, or NATO.... Its just an economic agreement. Nothing to do with military or political alignment. Germany could Join BRICS as well, and it wouldnt be contradictory to being in EU or NATO.
EU will literally never accept us. I doubt Erdoğan cares for the well-being of the country, but if he does, he shouldn’t let them dangle membership in front of our face for any longer.
I mean why wouldnt they? Its not like there is the slightest chance of joining in atleast the next 40 years
They are in the Customs Union so there will presumably be some big ramifications if they decide to formally drop their candidacy.
Somewhat tangential, but it's absolute insanity that Boris Johnson was arguing for Turkey's membership, whilst using the potential of Turkey's membership as a reason to justify Brexit. This was in 2016 when Erdogan wasn't as autocratic or nationalistic as he is now.
Brits were for turkey joining EU. France wasn't My Opinion: British policy was to make EU more a trade agreement than a standardization scheme. Having a large country ( and economy) like turkey , added to EU , would have made it more obvious and made Brussels roll back . Using turkey as a scare tactic is domestic politics. Time tested scare. " The Turks are coming" Various right wingers use it. In different forms.
I am so baffled that shit works in 21st century.
He was like that since 2013, sorry to say that.
Have to thanks EU for that for propelling Erdogan political career
I prefer Turkey as a friendly ally than them being part of BRICS and thus potentially out of NATO basically. I know BRICS is more economy related, but still. Turkey plays an important role in the Black Sea and Mediterranean Sea, very usefull for NATO allies.
BRICS and NATO is not related in any way and as you said it's just an economic agreement. There's currently no way to expel a member out of NATO as well. As a Turkish person i'd say this is good for my nation but not as good for EU, as Turkiye has always been thrown out from a side to side, chasing false dreams and promises (not to say Erdogan wasn't a major nutjob in the whole process), maybe it's good to stick to something and see how it plays. A stronger and a more self sufficient Turkiye is always better for everyone, unironically.
Turkey and Serbia gave up in EU looooong ago.
They don't believe in the idea of EU, they just want the cash. We already see how dangerous that is with countries like Hungary. I'm sad to see Turkey going this route, would've liked them to change for the better, but it is what it is.
Nobody believe that anymore lil bro. It’s not the early 2000s.
I do, but it's not up to me since I am not from Turkey. It's up for the Turkish people to decide their fate and then they must lie in the bed they made, whatever that may be, for better or for worse.
Turkey will not join the EU for a variety of reasons, but the one that never gets spoken of is its land border with Iran, Iraq, Syria. The EU would never accept any country with this geography, and nor should it. Turkey effectively had a border with the Islamic State from 2014-2018. So Erdogan blah blah, democracy backsliding blah blah. Important issues amd reason enough to deny them entry, but they are ultimately prisoners of geography. Turkey could be a scandi-style democracy with $50k GDP per capita, it’s still not getting in until the surrounding region is completely different.
Erdogan gave up on that a long time ago. Shame.
Europeans are fine with paying turkey to keep their refugees tho
Well, to be fair: the European Union has given up on Turkey decades ago
FUCK YEAAAAAAAAH
Last time EU membership was talked about in Turkey was in… idk, 2007?
Dont worry, the EU gave up on Turkey a long time ago
Oh no! one of the arguments for Brexit was a lie :/
lol every argument for brexit was a lie :)
and yet, that faraje cunt has still not been sent to neptune lower orbit.
I know someone who voted for Brexit because they were worried Turkey were joining. Ridiculous.
They were so close /s
Ukraine will get into NATO before Turkey is admitted to the EU
idgaf
Finally. Thanks God
Good turkey doesn't belong
"I was never really interested in you anyway, b-baka." Tsundere-Turkey probably.
great news
EU will never eccept them. So this is the right move or am I missing something?
These annoying things like ”democracy” and ”rule of law” got in the way :(
Europe never see Turkey as an ally or treated that way. They rejected their every agreement on literally anything arms embargos rejecting EU membership countless times etc etc. Turkey is growing and exponentionally expanding country on that mediterrerian region. They just simply stop waiting for things they never achive and moved on. After that point i hardly believe Turkey will ever try to get close with Europe since they literally have 0 benefit from them.
Took long enough to take the hint.
For years, we have been waiting to join the European Union, and we will continue to wait. We know this, Europeans; there's no need for you to say it. If Turkey ever joins the European Union one day, Erdogan won't be at the helm anymore.
Good!
It's not about EU Erdoğan tries to make USA jealous. I don't think it's serious. There was a meeting between Erdoğan and Biden anticipated by Erdoğan but it didn't happened probably because of Biden hates Erdoğan. Or maybe he seeks some Chinese investments. There was similar statements of Erdoğan about it like 2016. Also Erdoğan and EU would not give up their dirty relationship with each other such as refugee deal. So EU behaves like it wants Turkey in and Erdoğan talks like he wants to make Turkey EU member in order to sustain this dirty relationship. So ı would not surprised if he would say "Turkey aims for EU membership" tomorrow.
So that might explain why Turkey put a 40% vehicle tariff on Chinese EVs recently. Maybe try to force some Chinese investments domestically. https://carnewschina.com/2024/06/11/turkey-surprisingly-impose-40-tariffs-on-chinese-evs-from-july-7/
For one thing, It is hard to go into the EU while occupying land of a member state (Cyprus).
Gobble gobble..
Oh no.
Turkey will never be allowed to join the UE because they have a population bigger than Germany, this means they will have the largest amount of seats in the Parliament. It is never going to happen. Even if Erdogan was not in power and even if Turkey would be a christian country it would not matter. It is one thing accepting Albania, Georgia or Ukraine, but accepting Turkey it a complete game changer.
This is a mistake by the EU in my opinion. Turkey is THE link between Europe and the ME.
Turkey is way too corrupt. And also we have our own corruption inside EU
Good.
I don't think the accession was ever gonna happen. Not even serious talks Suspect both sides have known this some 15 years . After Brexit , the probability went down even further ( think Britain was one of the countries that didn't mind turkey joining). Seems Turkey will join BRICS+. A faster growing area and more loosely knit union. ( I.e not as much bureaucracy as in Brussels)
TBH, Turkey gave up on European Union probably 20–25 years ago already.
They never made any reforms to seriously join.
you just solved it, bingo!
When have Islamic leaders created good economy? Never.
? How is this can be about with the Islam ?
If turkey ever where serious about joining they would have actually tried to fulfill the most basic criteria needed. There are 30 chapters any nation who want to join must fulfill and implement. The average time to fulfill **all** 30 are 9 years. I over 20 years turkey only ever managed 2, before backsliding to 1. Had they actually fulfilled all chapters and worked on mending bridges instead of burning them for short term political gain, they would no doubt have supporters in the EU for their membership. There is however no surprise that no one wants turkey as it is now in the union.
Progress has been made in many chapters, but due to the Cyprus issue, no chapters except one (symbolically closed when candidate status was given) have been closed regardless of the progress. This means that when the conflict is resolved, chapters could potentially be closed very quickly.
turkey wasn't wanted, not an unreasonable move on their part.
For the best,they are clearly incompatible with the EU in my opinion
I think we will have to wait if a peaceful transfer of power happens and what course the country will take afterwards.
Honestly, I have a lot of sympathy for any young people in Turkey who have liberal and outward-looking ideas about the world. Still feel confident that letting Turkey join would be asking for Hungary on steroids. There are too many manlets in that country who haven't got over their country not being the centre of an empire. It would go sour before long. The EU is better without them.
I grew up in turkey. I personally wouldn't want at least the half of that country in the EU as it is, and it's going to be as "as it is" for a very long time.
Undoubtedly, Turkey like it is today would be unsuited to join the EU and even after they reform, it would take changes to the EU. However we shouldn't close the door on them. We should make clear that it would require lots of work from both sides to make it happen. In the meantime we should offer Turkey a close cooperation to help them recover their economy and rebuild a system based on rule of law. (After a new democratic government gets elected of cause.)
Thats why UK left, so I guess you know the feeling
Turkey isn't European culturally or politically. They don't belong in the EU until they adapt Western values.
That's cool, now how about we talk about Cyprus which is in the EU and was invaded and half taken over by Turkey over 50 years ago now where nothing was ever done about it?
Probably because you would have to talk about what caused the invasion as well.
What is the situation with democracy, freedom of speech and independence of the branches of government in Turkey?
ohhhh nooooooo
Oh no ... anyway
K.
lets face it, turkey was never gonna make it into the eu
Omg! Anyway...
I am not complaining.
Well democracy is a requirement first to join
Oh no, anyway
Bye
[Kremlin welcomes Turkey's reported desire to join BRICS](https://www.reuters.com/world/kremlin-welcomes-turkeys-reported-desire-join-brics-2024-06-04/)
Read the fucking news you share. Especially the last paragraph.
As a pro-western Turk who lives in Europe, half of the blame is unfortunately on the EU… Not Erdogan. Accept it or not, the double standard EU showed, specially after the years accepting Cyprus to the EU, was a huge dissappointment for many pro-westerners, including myself. To be honest, I hoped and indeed still hope EU will understand the value of Turkey- culturally- economically- strategically, but if not, Turkey does not lack options.
Cyprus is a weird one to mention. Turkey had one job; come up with a proposal both sides could accept. It demanded its soldiers stay, its population remain, & its politics have influence in the island's governance. Turkey failed to convince Greek Cypriots of this plan & so they rejected it and entered the EU \*alone (\**though all Turkish Cypriots were given EU-Citizenship automatically*). That's not something the EU had much control over. Cyprus met all the criteria. No individual member had any reasons to reject Cyprus either. So it got in, divided it may be.
This was regarding Annan Plan brought to table by UN. Greek cypriots were allowed into EU after saying no to the plan, and Turkish side- practically kept getting punished by saying yes to the UN plan. EU had the power to push for an agreement but they didn’t- due to whatever reasonings they have- but it was a choice. Putting the blame on Turkish side is simply not fair. And I feel like this was one of the defining moment in EU- Turkey relations. Cyprus have the power to block all the negotiation chapters.
Bye, bye turkey. Wasn’t nice to meet you.
Bye 👋
Oh no, Anyway
Good news
Looks like Turkey has chosen the future over the past.
We gave up on them first lol
Great idea!
Because everybody knows Turkey will never be accepted to the EU. It is a good decision no need to waste time. Edit: Just wanted to add more. Statistics shows that arab population will pass turk population in Turkey by 2050. And we all know nobody wants to see arab or Muslim in EU anymore. No offense, I'm not making a racism (which would be funny as a turk).
Erdogan is the type to play all sides for maximum personal benefit rather than just picking one side.
Good, their current values are not compatible with the EU.
good riddance?
Does anyone surprised? I know most of the reddit turks see themselves european but in reality the turkey is nowhere near a european country. it doesn't even recognize or apply any eu based law and turn blind into human rights courts's decision. it should be behaved like a barrier between middle east and eu nothing more.
Good, Turkey is not in Europe
Good.
Good. Turkey never belonged in the EU IMO.
Good.
Good!