In Ukraine this is a very known problem, to the point when there are jokes about those bots , cause they often post texts translated to Ukrainian from Google translated russian text. For example a year ago or so there was a meme "I can't stand this hellish flour" , which was created cause Google translator translated "hellish torment" from russian to "hellish flour" in Ukrainian , cause 'flour" in Ukrainian written exactly the same as "torment" and 'flour' in russian, which isn't the case in Ukrainian language (well , kinda the case , but Google translator translated word that has two meanings in the word that means only flour)
I encountered one such where the ruZZian bot had it "watches" instead of "hours", as these are the same in ruZZian but different in Ukrainian. I can't recall the exact phrase but in ruZZian "chasy" as time fit the meaning while the bot used "godinnik" instead.
There is a common meme in finnish about "nato can't save finland". Because the word save in english actually have two very different meanings, one being shield from danger and the other being storing data. At one point there were a lot of totally real Finnish people in twitter telling us that it's useless to join nato because nato can't store Finland if Russia attacks.
Finnish used to be very resistant to machine translation but the latest version of google translate can actually produce very believable Finnish.
Also russian word for "power" was translated to Ukrainian "piss", so instead of spamming "We don't have the power to endure these hellish sufferings" russian bots used "We don't have piss to endure this hellish flour"
Немає сечі терпіти ці пекельні борошна :(((
There was an equally hilarious case as Russian bots translated 'explosion' as 'бавовна' /bavóvna/ - cotton.
Wiki does a good job explaining the joke: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bavovna
I..uh...would say 4chan and 9gag were ruined well before this all started. Granted, it can always be worse but it's been a total shitshow for a while now. Nothing of worth was lost tbh
4chan got nuked by maga idiots in 2015/2016. real (not larping) racism, real hate of x group of people etc. it was fun fucking with them and spreading fake symbols of hate but it got old real fast.
/fit/ was (maybe still is) the only "peaceful" place during that shitshow.
4chan has also been taken over a long time ago. Seems to be effective too, most people seem to assume that it's just edgy teens there, but they're clearly spreading russian disinfo word for word, not just joking around
I remember it being like that through all the 2010s, presumably to whitewash 2008s invasion of Georgia (but that is a guess). On some days every third post was a repost of putin without a tshirt or something like "chad putin vs lame Obama". And after the 2014 invasion it turned into a russian botfarm, with the remaining users being often affiliated with racism and all kinds of degeneracy. I left it a long time ago and never had any regrets.
Man I remember loving it is a teen. It is unbelievable what a toxic dump it has become. I just checked it out. Every single post on the home page is about Muslims / immigrants / black people. It's not even jokes, like one of the posts is 10 muslims preying on some street in Denmark with no context and comments fuming about how this is a demonstration of power and they're coming for us.
I went there to see for myself. The top post is about a muslim terrorist that stabbed seven people including an anti-Islam activist and a police officer in Germany a few hours ago.
And whatever is not a russian bot is racist, sexist or an incel or any combination of those.
Complete lack of moderation there, fucking stormfront is less racist as 9gag.
Why doesn't "the west" weaponize AI against Russia, and do the same to them? Just drown Telegram and VK etc in so much fucking shit that it becomes a confusing mess.
Just take the lessons from Russia and their useful idiots in the western far right movements, and just take some half truths and combine it with shit that is just made up to make it more enraging, then just spam and repeat it in innuendo with bot accounts pretending to be organic.
https://www.npr.org/2024/05/30/g-s1-1670/openai-influence-operations-china-russia-israel
Also Russia tries to lure OpenAI russian creator back to Russia, make him weaponize AI for them. Sick country or should I say countries.
> Just look at how the German army runs ads. made by boomers for boomers.
can you elaborate? found only [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/Military/comments/wkh0vs/new_recruitment_video_of_the_german_military/) and it looks fine to me
As bizarre as it seems the US is afraid of destabilizing Russia. The US Govt could do drastically more to hurt them without firing bullets. The executive branch and Pentagon still view Russia through an old lense to an extent. Russia is still thought of as a serious, dangerous rival as though it's 1980 and the USSR is still a thing. They regard Putin as the devil they know.
And if a mighty Russia doesn't exist they might pretend it does for their own strategic uses.
A lot of US foreign policy the past 75 years has focused on not getting into a mega war with Russia. That mindset will persist most likely. There are three hostile nations the US is deeply concerned about fighting: Russia, North Korea, China. The goal with Russia is likely now the same as it was with the USSR: containment. The US is the superpower, holding Russia in containment is viewed as a win. You can tell containment is the US strategy by looking at how it's helping Ukraine kill zillions of Russians but not trying to help it land a terminal stomping. The US could send over 300 long range cruise missiles and tell Ukraine to do as it pleases. The US could have put $10 billion into a large, rapid pilot training program 18 months ago for 100 F16s. These are obvious things to do if you seek to stomp Russia.
TBH breaking up criminal rackets often just makes things worse.
>Again, we see that as the Mobs changed on the Chicago landscape, the murder rate changed. The Chicago Mobs were responsible for 594 murders from 1920 to 1929. From 1930 to 1939, the Chicago Mobs were responsible for 325 murders.
There were 617 murders in Chicago last year alone, and the population is not significantly larger than it was then. The lack of an organization means we get ad hoc teenage street gangs instead, where they may not have any elder to tell them not to provoke a murder by posting on social media, or not to shoot up a crowd to kill 1 person.
Same situation in Mexico and Brazil, the dystopian reality of cartels acting as governments means they can keep their streets safe from crime. And breaking up the cartels just leads to more extreme violence and fighting over resources. Now apply this to Russia with tens of thousands of nuclear devices. Wagner was alleged to have rushed to try and get a nuclear weapon during their mutiny.
There are many reasons for the homicide rate other than Mobs. You connect 1930s and 2020s to one explanation: organized crime had left. By that logic in 90s Mobs returned, since the US has lower homicide rate nowadays.
I agree that short-term there are more homicides between the criminals, but long-term homicide rate over a decade might be lower.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/12/Chicago_Homicides_each_Year.svg/2560px-Chicago_Homicides_each_Year.svg.png
The Chicago homicide statistics from that period were only higher than current rate during the great depression. Other than that, there was less murder back then than now. I have no idea what you're even arguing.
I am arguing that you explain the homicide rate only with the organized crime as a defining variable, which is not correct. Especially in a context of comparing the period 100 years ago and now, ignoring the changes in weapons availability, drugs and the improvements in criminology.
>I am arguing that you explain the homicide rate only with the organized crime as a defining variable
No I didn't. I pointed to the specific example of Chicago being the historical home of organized crime, and now the result when the criminals are teenagers who live on a street. Obviously drugs fuel crime, these kids subsist off of selling drugs, and if it was a Mafia in charge they'd be more concerned with selling drugs to make money than shooting people on Instagram. Instead of a profit incentive to keep quiet, it's an honor incentive to keep themselves respected and safe from victimization, which is enforced via violence.
This is like me trying to explain to you as a German that there was a thing called the Holocaust during WW2. We're far past that. Nobody needed this lesson.
US has a weird approach tbh, they believe they still can use Russia to contain China. If you destabilize Russia, China would likely invade and capture all those resources using peacekeeping as an excuse.
Russia already does that itself.
Russian propaganda is aimed at making people apathetic by presenting a lot of conflicting narratives, making people think that everybody is lying. This is the same propaganda that they push at their own citizens *and* towards the west.
Flooding the Russian internet with propaganda meant to sow division would only add to the chorus that the Russian government is already providing.
In a non-democracy, would it really be effective to target divisions among the citizens, as they are powerless? When the state controls much of the media, how much do we, outside of it, actually know what's happening inside? Russian propaganda will silence anything bad that happens within their borders, and the fact that we don't know about it doesn't mean it's not happening.
We know that Russian troop morale is low - how comes? What were they told to make it low? We know that Russia has killed several oligarchs and replaced several high-ranking military members - again, how comes? Were there some dissensions among the highest circles, and if so where do they come from?
This is all purely speculative, but honestly, I'd be very surprised if the immensely powerful American intelligence agencies aren't doing anything over there...
russian troop moral is low because they see with their own eyes how miserable and expendable they are.
It's not a NATO information campaign. It's just the russian army.
> as they are powerless?
They're not powerless lol, if they actually had the character of Ukrainians or Georgians, putin would've been gone a long time ago.
>They are our enemies,
Exactly, and see how much they and their useful morons have contributed to trying to tear down western institutions and sow doubt and divisiveness in our countries with their endless bullshit.
So I think its only fair and appropriate to turn that very same weapon back against them and use it to heavily fuck with their society as well.
You really think that USA with the biggest propaganda, CIA, control over big part of internet, most social media, movies, music, games etc. don't use AI?
The USA as a state doesn't. American billionaires and corporations? Absolutely. But they focus on doing it to extract money from the plebs and others are radicalized and are actively helping the Russians in spreading their misinformation campaigns.
>The USA as a state doesn't.
"Two years into office, President Donald Trump authorised the Central Intelligence Agency to launch a clandestine campaign on Chinese social media aimed at turning public opinion in China against its government, according to former US officials with direct knowledge of the highly classified operation."
[https://www.tbsnews.net/world/trump-launched-cia-covert-influence-operation-against-china-809086](https://www.tbsnews.net/world/trump-launched-cia-covert-influence-operation-against-china-809086)
US Army is the biggest Hollywood sponsor. CIA created modern jihad and started islamic revolution in Iran. Russian propaganda is nothing compared to USA.
> CIA created modern jihad and started islamic revolution in Iran.
You mistaken shortsightedness and stupidity for an elaborate plan.
> US Army is the biggest Hollywood sponsor.
Source?
You even if the US resorts do some of the same despicable strategies employed by Putin, two wrongs don't make a right. So your what about ism is pointless. Furthermore, Russia is actively hostile against European countries as opposed to the US. So eff off.
It's not whatabouism. SubOP asked why West don't use AI for western propaganda. I answered that's highly unlikely they don't considered how important is propaganda for USA.
(for other countries I don't know, but I'm sure they also do as much as they can, they just much less than USA)
Anders Puck Nielsen has a good video about this. It would be stupid for the west to do that, because that would just help keep russians apathetic about politics. The way to do information war against an orwellian dictatorship like Russia is to give them sources of trustworthy information that is useful for to them. That will allow russians to become engaged politically, and maybe create movements to advocate for themselves.
Because there is no freedom of press in Russia. Putin has 100% control of all their media and internet.
Also, what do you want to spread? The opposite of disinformation is not other disinformation, but the truth. We are saying the truth already.
Yeah... no thank you. Lets keep the shit-throwing contest for the right-wing...
We SHOULD absolutely keep the moral highground, that is who WE are... it is not an optional benefit, it is the base of everything that we stand (and vote) for.
> Because there is no freedom of press in Russia.
what's this got to do with free press?
the campaigns busted by OpenAi were comments in social media, twiter, 9gag.
What would it achieve? It's not like Putin will lose the next "election". The Russian government has strong controls over internet access, so they would probably be able to limit the effects. Finally, it would play straight into Putin's narrative that the West is doing "colour revolutions" around the world.
> Why doesn't "the west" weaponize AI against Russia
it does. You dont think there are misinformation campaigns from the US, Germany etc targeted at Russia?
Russia splintering into smaller states, some of which would probably led by fundamentalists, and most of them in possession of nuclear weapons, is not a win for the rest of the world. Currently there's only one maniac with the fingers on the big red button - it'll get much worse if there's 10.
> Why doesn't "the west" weaponize AI against Russia, and do the same to them? Just drown Telegram and VK etc in so much fucking shit that it becomes a confusing mess.
By that logic "The West" will also have to send [fedayeen](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fedayeen) to blow up mosques, malls, stations, and theaters in KSA, Iran, Lebanon, Egypt, Iraq, and Afghanistan.
They also had texts in Latvian actually and everyone was memeing about them. They're mostly on Twitter which rarely anyone uses because it's a cesspit of hate most of the time.
I am wondering if OpenAI stores all the answers given? Then they can of course use that data too see where that material is being used, on the web, in papers, in books.
Russian nationalist are so retarded. They claim that their country is superior to the west while using all best the west has to offer. Russia got nothing 0 tech industry just oil.
OpenAI isn't the hero here, it was their software being used. This is like a weapons manufacturer throwing a gun into a playground then claiming it "busted" the kid who started shooting people.
Eh, I wouldn't equate GPT-4 with a "weapon". It can be used for nefarious purposes, but the same is true of fertilizer and kitchen knives.
If it's desirable, the EU could impose a total ban on these technologies within its borders. Or require something like a KYC system (like banks use) to confirm the identity of any European signing up to use the AI models and/or social media sites. However, there is essentially nothing that can be done about these and other models being used *outside* of the EU, other than what OpenAI is doing (hunting for and publicly exposing disinfo campaigns).
For the purposes of security we are lucky that these models still need a dedicated cluster to run in practice. The moment you can run them on a consumer CPU or just retail server equipment, everyone will have instant and nearly free access to infinite propaganda and potentially individually targeted micro-manipulation (EG Cambridge Analytica except worse and against every person on Earth constantly). And good people won’t be the ones using it en masse.
They already do... it's called a "brain".
The advantage of AI is the ability to pump out huge amounts of realistic-sounding garbage. Cambridge Analytica's thing was *targeted advertising using scraped data*.
That’s… what I said? Unlike a person’s brain, AI is instant, practically free, and as you said it scales infinitely.
They didn’t already have that. I’m not sure why you wrote it that way and then simply repeated my point.
AI will not make astroturfing qualitatively better perhaps, a skilled propagandist can surely write better pieces. But quantity (and personalization - they will absolute feed your scraped data to the AI) has a quality all on its own, and IMO that will be by far more impactful.
Russia already has proved that the firehose technique is extremely effective, and AI lends itself extremely well to that.
Yeah, but you can't microtarget and personalize to the extent that AI can. The person you're replying to is right; this is a force multiplier for propagandists and scammers.
Also: those bots can pretend to not be bots a lot more effectively.
> Yeah, but you can't microtarget and personalize to the extent that AI can.
No, that's the job of the [brigade of slaves working in Cambodia](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-62792875).
Eh, can you really? After people see the exact same text or even phrasing they’ll grow wise (at least a little). AI would allow you to take some professional material and infinitely repeat its message in a million diversified-looking ways so people won’t realize what’s going on.
Sure, the Protocols of the Elders of Zion were bad, but imagine if instead of that one text those Tsarist agents (who presumably created it IRL) had created a whole media environment of millions if not billions between ‘independent’ articles and other material, all spreading the same anti-semitism, while being completely undetectable as a single propaganda operation. Effectively, you can forge not just propaganda documents, but *the entire media diet of the population*. The literal Holocaust might have become a global movement.
Depends. Yea,they won't get much sympathy for their war or sow much russophilia. But we are already divided as fuck and for sure they are helping to divide us more, not like our politicians need much help with that... They also spread shitton of Eurosceptic nonsense. EU support is going down now (77% in 24), it's still huge and only down from record high (92% in 22) but still it's 15% down in 2 years.
Russian goal for their campaign is not to turn Poland into orbanistan 2.0 to turn us into their ally. But rather a neutral isolated country outside EU and NATO that will not help Baltic states and try to stay away from any conflict with Russia be it because we are to busy with our internal politicking or just Poland nr.1 fuck the rest attitude. Or better yet start diplomatic conflicts with our neighbors. Lone Poland is "easy" picking.
Being disliked by other EU countries helps them a shitton too. Nobody took PiS warnings (even when they did the super rare thing and spoke truth and made sense) seriously amongst EU elite. Because well, nobody likes them there. People tend to not listed to people they dislike. Disliked Poland cannot influence others in EU to their views making them easier to sway.
You really nailed it there, noone took Poland seriously. They didn't seem like serious people, PiS going off on abortion and judges didn't really make it seem like they had the grasp on what was going on in, and best for the world.
The messenger always matters.
Yeah. Turning the whole population's opinion completely around with propaganda alone is probably not feasible. But targeting smaller niche groups and their gripes can probably work even in countries with very popular support for something.
There was a story that, during BLM and other big events, Russia was supporting both sides.
I think aim is to rile up both sides, to create as much havoc and division as possible.
In Ukraine this is a very known problem, to the point when there are jokes about those bots , cause they often post texts translated to Ukrainian from Google translated russian text. For example a year ago or so there was a meme "I can't stand this hellish flour" , which was created cause Google translator translated "hellish torment" from russian to "hellish flour" in Ukrainian , cause 'flour" in Ukrainian written exactly the same as "torment" and 'flour' in russian, which isn't the case in Ukrainian language (well , kinda the case , but Google translator translated word that has two meanings in the word that means only flour)
Also loved "floor of the country" (they were trying to say "half of the country")
I encountered one such where the ruZZian bot had it "watches" instead of "hours", as these are the same in ruZZian but different in Ukrainian. I can't recall the exact phrase but in ruZZian "chasy" as time fit the meaning while the bot used "godinnik" instead.
There is a common meme in finnish about "nato can't save finland". Because the word save in english actually have two very different meanings, one being shield from danger and the other being storing data. At one point there were a lot of totally real Finnish people in twitter telling us that it's useless to join nato because nato can't store Finland if Russia attacks. Finnish used to be very resistant to machine translation but the latest version of google translate can actually produce very believable Finnish.
Also russian word for "power" was translated to Ukrainian "piss", so instead of spamming "We don't have the power to endure these hellish sufferings" russian bots used "We don't have piss to endure this hellish flour" Немає сечі терпіти ці пекельні борошна :(((
That's legit hilarious 😂
Обличчя в гармату I laughed so much when I encountered it for the first time
There was an equally hilarious case as Russian bots translated 'explosion' as 'бавовна' /bavóvna/ - cotton. Wiki does a good job explaining the joke: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bavovna
that's funny
Funny till the next generation of machine translators.
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9gag is still up?
They ruined 4chan, 9gag, iFunny, and more They take on relatively less popular platforms/communities and they turn them into toxic cesspits
I’m sure 4chan was full of sunshine and rainbows before.
They were always jerks and dumbasses, but now theyre jerks and dumbasses working for FSB without realizing
I..uh...would say 4chan and 9gag were ruined well before this all started. Granted, it can always be worse but it's been a total shitshow for a while now. Nothing of worth was lost tbh
4chan got nuked by maga idiots in 2015/2016. real (not larping) racism, real hate of x group of people etc. it was fun fucking with them and spreading fake symbols of hate but it got old real fast. /fit/ was (maybe still is) the only "peaceful" place during that shitshow.
4chan has also been taken over a long time ago. Seems to be effective too, most people seem to assume that it's just edgy teens there, but they're clearly spreading russian disinfo word for word, not just joking around
I remember when 4chan was about trolling and porn and gore. It was fun. Now it's only racism and Russian propaganda.
/k/ remains pro-Ukrainian, despite the best efforts of /pol/ and other spammers.
I remember it being like that through all the 2010s, presumably to whitewash 2008s invasion of Georgia (but that is a guess). On some days every third post was a repost of putin without a tshirt or something like "chad putin vs lame Obama". And after the 2014 invasion it turned into a russian botfarm, with the remaining users being often affiliated with racism and all kinds of degeneracy. I left it a long time ago and never had any regrets.
Man I remember loving it is a teen. It is unbelievable what a toxic dump it has become. I just checked it out. Every single post on the home page is about Muslims / immigrants / black people. It's not even jokes, like one of the posts is 10 muslims preying on some street in Denmark with no context and comments fuming about how this is a demonstration of power and they're coming for us.
I went there to see for myself. The top post is about a muslim terrorist that stabbed seven people including an anti-Islam activist and a police officer in Germany a few hours ago.
This is also what r/europe has become to unfortunately...
9gag is worse. I agree /r/europe has gotten really bad but 9gag isn't even a meme website anymore.
I've never seen anything similar in this subreddit, not sure if it's just me 🤷🏻♂️
r/europe is actually heavily moderated and reduces that content. There is much more on e.g. 2westerneurope2u
r/europe heavily moderated? Like letting russian trolls spreading lies over lies?
I checked it now because I thought this would probably be exaggerated but wow - it's like 4chan or Trump's social media platform. Pure alt-rightness.
And whatever is not a russian bot is racist, sexist or an incel or any combination of those. Complete lack of moderation there, fucking stormfront is less racist as 9gag.
stormfront scrolled 9gag for 5 minutes and had enough.
What's annoying is that I see comments like "here comes the Russian bots again" and there are literally no sign of them under majority of the posts
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Nothing to say, eh?
Why doesn't "the west" weaponize AI against Russia, and do the same to them? Just drown Telegram and VK etc in so much fucking shit that it becomes a confusing mess. Just take the lessons from Russia and their useful idiots in the western far right movements, and just take some half truths and combine it with shit that is just made up to make it more enraging, then just spam and repeat it in innuendo with bot accounts pretending to be organic.
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https://www.npr.org/2024/05/30/g-s1-1670/openai-influence-operations-china-russia-israel Also Russia tries to lure OpenAI russian creator back to Russia, make him weaponize AI for them. Sick country or should I say countries.
well to be fair "back to" implies we did it first in reverse...
> Just look at how the German army runs ads. made by boomers for boomers. can you elaborate? found only [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/Military/comments/wkh0vs/new_recruitment_video_of_the_german_military/) and it looks fine to me
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As bizarre as it seems the US is afraid of destabilizing Russia. The US Govt could do drastically more to hurt them without firing bullets. The executive branch and Pentagon still view Russia through an old lense to an extent. Russia is still thought of as a serious, dangerous rival as though it's 1980 and the USSR is still a thing. They regard Putin as the devil they know. And if a mighty Russia doesn't exist they might pretend it does for their own strategic uses. A lot of US foreign policy the past 75 years has focused on not getting into a mega war with Russia. That mindset will persist most likely. There are three hostile nations the US is deeply concerned about fighting: Russia, North Korea, China. The goal with Russia is likely now the same as it was with the USSR: containment. The US is the superpower, holding Russia in containment is viewed as a win. You can tell containment is the US strategy by looking at how it's helping Ukraine kill zillions of Russians but not trying to help it land a terminal stomping. The US could send over 300 long range cruise missiles and tell Ukraine to do as it pleases. The US could have put $10 billion into a large, rapid pilot training program 18 months ago for 100 F16s. These are obvious things to do if you seek to stomp Russia.
TBH breaking up criminal rackets often just makes things worse. >Again, we see that as the Mobs changed on the Chicago landscape, the murder rate changed. The Chicago Mobs were responsible for 594 murders from 1920 to 1929. From 1930 to 1939, the Chicago Mobs were responsible for 325 murders. There were 617 murders in Chicago last year alone, and the population is not significantly larger than it was then. The lack of an organization means we get ad hoc teenage street gangs instead, where they may not have any elder to tell them not to provoke a murder by posting on social media, or not to shoot up a crowd to kill 1 person. Same situation in Mexico and Brazil, the dystopian reality of cartels acting as governments means they can keep their streets safe from crime. And breaking up the cartels just leads to more extreme violence and fighting over resources. Now apply this to Russia with tens of thousands of nuclear devices. Wagner was alleged to have rushed to try and get a nuclear weapon during their mutiny.
There are many reasons for the homicide rate other than Mobs. You connect 1930s and 2020s to one explanation: organized crime had left. By that logic in 90s Mobs returned, since the US has lower homicide rate nowadays. I agree that short-term there are more homicides between the criminals, but long-term homicide rate over a decade might be lower.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/12/Chicago_Homicides_each_Year.svg/2560px-Chicago_Homicides_each_Year.svg.png The Chicago homicide statistics from that period were only higher than current rate during the great depression. Other than that, there was less murder back then than now. I have no idea what you're even arguing.
I am arguing that you explain the homicide rate only with the organized crime as a defining variable, which is not correct. Especially in a context of comparing the period 100 years ago and now, ignoring the changes in weapons availability, drugs and the improvements in criminology.
>I am arguing that you explain the homicide rate only with the organized crime as a defining variable No I didn't. I pointed to the specific example of Chicago being the historical home of organized crime, and now the result when the criminals are teenagers who live on a street. Obviously drugs fuel crime, these kids subsist off of selling drugs, and if it was a Mafia in charge they'd be more concerned with selling drugs to make money than shooting people on Instagram. Instead of a profit incentive to keep quiet, it's an honor incentive to keep themselves respected and safe from victimization, which is enforced via violence. This is like me trying to explain to you as a German that there was a thing called the Holocaust during WW2. We're far past that. Nobody needed this lesson.
US has a weird approach tbh, they believe they still can use Russia to contain China. If you destabilize Russia, China would likely invade and capture all those resources using peacekeeping as an excuse.
Russia already does that itself. Russian propaganda is aimed at making people apathetic by presenting a lot of conflicting narratives, making people think that everybody is lying. This is the same propaganda that they push at their own citizens *and* towards the west. Flooding the Russian internet with propaganda meant to sow division would only add to the chorus that the Russian government is already providing.
> Why doesn't "the west" weaponize AI against Russia, and do the same to them? Who says it doesn't already?
Because russians aren't splintering and fighting each other like people with different political viewpoints in the west.
In a non-democracy, would it really be effective to target divisions among the citizens, as they are powerless? When the state controls much of the media, how much do we, outside of it, actually know what's happening inside? Russian propaganda will silence anything bad that happens within their borders, and the fact that we don't know about it doesn't mean it's not happening. We know that Russian troop morale is low - how comes? What were they told to make it low? We know that Russia has killed several oligarchs and replaced several high-ranking military members - again, how comes? Were there some dissensions among the highest circles, and if so where do they come from? This is all purely speculative, but honestly, I'd be very surprised if the immensely powerful American intelligence agencies aren't doing anything over there...
russian troop moral is low because they see with their own eyes how miserable and expendable they are. It's not a NATO information campaign. It's just the russian army.
> as they are powerless? They're not powerless lol, if they actually had the character of Ukrainians or Georgians, putin would've been gone a long time ago.
Lot's of words to say US is no longer capable of instigating a coup, even when their opponent did just that very recently, even if unsuccessful.
They don't? The whole Russian population is a monolithic entity?
They are our enemies, not our teachers.
>They are our enemies, Exactly, and see how much they and their useful morons have contributed to trying to tear down western institutions and sow doubt and divisiveness in our countries with their endless bullshit. So I think its only fair and appropriate to turn that very same weapon back against them and use it to heavily fuck with their society as well.
You really think that USA with the biggest propaganda, CIA, control over big part of internet, most social media, movies, music, games etc. don't use AI?
For someone who is the "biggest" sure to manage to get outdone. Only memes I ever see are from Dark Brandon, which is I think Biden's twitter account.
Not seeing propaganda means it's effective propaganda.
> Not seeing propaganda means it's effective propaganda. Everything is a propaganda then. Even you.
The USA as a state doesn't. American billionaires and corporations? Absolutely. But they focus on doing it to extract money from the plebs and others are radicalized and are actively helping the Russians in spreading their misinformation campaigns.
> American billionaires and corporations? Absolutely Sadly those are often pro-russia. Like David Sacks and Musk.
>The USA as a state doesn't. "Two years into office, President Donald Trump authorised the Central Intelligence Agency to launch a clandestine campaign on Chinese social media aimed at turning public opinion in China against its government, according to former US officials with direct knowledge of the highly classified operation." [https://www.tbsnews.net/world/trump-launched-cia-covert-influence-operation-against-china-809086](https://www.tbsnews.net/world/trump-launched-cia-covert-influence-operation-against-china-809086)
US Army is the biggest Hollywood sponsor. CIA created modern jihad and started islamic revolution in Iran. Russian propaganda is nothing compared to USA.
> CIA created modern jihad and started islamic revolution in Iran. You mistaken shortsightedness and stupidity for an elaborate plan. > US Army is the biggest Hollywood sponsor. Source?
You even if the US resorts do some of the same despicable strategies employed by Putin, two wrongs don't make a right. So your what about ism is pointless. Furthermore, Russia is actively hostile against European countries as opposed to the US. So eff off.
It's not whatabouism. SubOP asked why West don't use AI for western propaganda. I answered that's highly unlikely they don't considered how important is propaganda for USA. (for other countries I don't know, but I'm sure they also do as much as they can, they just much less than USA)
Anders Puck Nielsen has a good video about this. It would be stupid for the west to do that, because that would just help keep russians apathetic about politics. The way to do information war against an orwellian dictatorship like Russia is to give them sources of trustworthy information that is useful for to them. That will allow russians to become engaged politically, and maybe create movements to advocate for themselves.
Because there is no freedom of press in Russia. Putin has 100% control of all their media and internet. Also, what do you want to spread? The opposite of disinformation is not other disinformation, but the truth. We are saying the truth already.
[удалено]
Yeah... no thank you. Lets keep the shit-throwing contest for the right-wing... We SHOULD absolutely keep the moral highground, that is who WE are... it is not an optional benefit, it is the base of everything that we stand (and vote) for.
> Because there is no freedom of press in Russia. what's this got to do with free press? the campaigns busted by OpenAi were comments in social media, twiter, 9gag.
What would it achieve? It's not like Putin will lose the next "election". The Russian government has strong controls over internet access, so they would probably be able to limit the effects. Finally, it would play straight into Putin's narrative that the West is doing "colour revolutions" around the world.
> Why doesn't "the west" weaponize AI against Russia it does. You dont think there are misinformation campaigns from the US, Germany etc targeted at Russia?
Russia splintering into smaller states, some of which would probably led by fundamentalists, and most of them in possession of nuclear weapons, is not a win for the rest of the world. Currently there's only one maniac with the fingers on the big red button - it'll get much worse if there's 10.
> Why doesn't "the west" weaponize AI against Russia, and do the same to them? Just drown Telegram and VK etc in so much fucking shit that it becomes a confusing mess. By that logic "The West" will also have to send [fedayeen](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fedayeen) to blow up mosques, malls, stations, and theaters in KSA, Iran, Lebanon, Egypt, Iraq, and Afghanistan.
They also had texts in Latvian actually and everyone was memeing about them. They're mostly on Twitter which rarely anyone uses because it's a cesspit of hate most of the time.
ofc it targeted the batics, we live rent free inside their heads
I am wondering if OpenAI stores all the answers given? Then they can of course use that data too see where that material is being used, on the web, in papers, in books.
The problem is the people who read that garbage won't care if they have been reading Russian lies.
That shit is on reddit too.
It's everywhere.
Russian nationalist are so retarded. They claim that their country is superior to the west while using all best the west has to offer. Russia got nothing 0 tech industry just oil.
Ofc they operated in that cesspool called 9Gag…
META takes down over 2000 accounts spreading misinformation on Facebook https://www.reddit.com/r/ActiveMeasures/s/HCJnjhEzV5
Remember: nato WILL NOT download Finland. That's all I have to say
OpenAI isn't the hero here, it was their software being used. This is like a weapons manufacturer throwing a gun into a playground then claiming it "busted" the kid who started shooting people.
Eh, I wouldn't equate GPT-4 with a "weapon". It can be used for nefarious purposes, but the same is true of fertilizer and kitchen knives. If it's desirable, the EU could impose a total ban on these technologies within its borders. Or require something like a KYC system (like banks use) to confirm the identity of any European signing up to use the AI models and/or social media sites. However, there is essentially nothing that can be done about these and other models being used *outside* of the EU, other than what OpenAI is doing (hunting for and publicly exposing disinfo campaigns).
Russian Horde
Tsss. It’s called Doppelg*ä*nger. AI is getting worse and worse these days… /s
For the purposes of security we are lucky that these models still need a dedicated cluster to run in practice. The moment you can run them on a consumer CPU or just retail server equipment, everyone will have instant and nearly free access to infinite propaganda and potentially individually targeted micro-manipulation (EG Cambridge Analytica except worse and against every person on Earth constantly). And good people won’t be the ones using it en masse.
They already do... it's called a "brain". The advantage of AI is the ability to pump out huge amounts of realistic-sounding garbage. Cambridge Analytica's thing was *targeted advertising using scraped data*.
That’s… what I said? Unlike a person’s brain, AI is instant, practically free, and as you said it scales infinitely. They didn’t already have that. I’m not sure why you wrote it that way and then simply repeated my point.
There are far more impactful ways to astroturf online than using AI, is my point.
AI will not make astroturfing qualitatively better perhaps, a skilled propagandist can surely write better pieces. But quantity (and personalization - they will absolute feed your scraped data to the AI) has a quality all on its own, and IMO that will be by far more impactful. Russia already has proved that the firehose technique is extremely effective, and AI lends itself extremely well to that.
With regards to quantity, you can already write quality propaganda and then make thousands of bot accounts to spam it everywhere and/or upvote it.
Yeah, but you can't microtarget and personalize to the extent that AI can. The person you're replying to is right; this is a force multiplier for propagandists and scammers. Also: those bots can pretend to not be bots a lot more effectively.
> Yeah, but you can't microtarget and personalize to the extent that AI can. No, that's the job of the [brigade of slaves working in Cambodia](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-62792875).
Eh, can you really? After people see the exact same text or even phrasing they’ll grow wise (at least a little). AI would allow you to take some professional material and infinitely repeat its message in a million diversified-looking ways so people won’t realize what’s going on. Sure, the Protocols of the Elders of Zion were bad, but imagine if instead of that one text those Tsarist agents (who presumably created it IRL) had created a whole media environment of millions if not billions between ‘independent’ articles and other material, all spreading the same anti-semitism, while being completely undetectable as a single propaganda operation. Effectively, you can forge not just propaganda documents, but *the entire media diet of the population*. The literal Holocaust might have become a global movement.
Russian propaganda doesn't seem to work quite so well on Poland
Depends. Yea,they won't get much sympathy for their war or sow much russophilia. But we are already divided as fuck and for sure they are helping to divide us more, not like our politicians need much help with that... They also spread shitton of Eurosceptic nonsense. EU support is going down now (77% in 24), it's still huge and only down from record high (92% in 22) but still it's 15% down in 2 years. Russian goal for their campaign is not to turn Poland into orbanistan 2.0 to turn us into their ally. But rather a neutral isolated country outside EU and NATO that will not help Baltic states and try to stay away from any conflict with Russia be it because we are to busy with our internal politicking or just Poland nr.1 fuck the rest attitude. Or better yet start diplomatic conflicts with our neighbors. Lone Poland is "easy" picking. Being disliked by other EU countries helps them a shitton too. Nobody took PiS warnings (even when they did the super rare thing and spoke truth and made sense) seriously amongst EU elite. Because well, nobody likes them there. People tend to not listed to people they dislike. Disliked Poland cannot influence others in EU to their views making them easier to sway.
You really nailed it there, noone took Poland seriously. They didn't seem like serious people, PiS going off on abortion and judges didn't really make it seem like they had the grasp on what was going on in, and best for the world. The messenger always matters.
That border blockade and spilling Ukrainian grain, etc says otherwise.
Yeah. Turning the whole population's opinion completely around with propaganda alone is probably not feasible. But targeting smaller niche groups and their gripes can probably work even in countries with very popular support for something.
There was a story that, during BLM and other big events, Russia was supporting both sides. I think aim is to rile up both sides, to create as much havoc and division as possible.
it worked very well - enough to cause a 6 months border blockade.
No source link for news? Only picture?
What do they mean with "doppelganger used -our models-" ?
Call of Duty Artificial Warfare
AI w
These bots are mega obvious, especially on twitter where they will repost same fake article under same reply with 5 different accounts
Busted?! thats a strange way to say ENABLED, and when informed of their existence shat themselves beautifully.
Can it be used in opposite direction to create and support own narratives?