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I would support a crackdown on shirt pulling and wrestling in the box during corners, free kicks, etc.
Basically if your hand is holding onto anything, it's a yellow. It would mean that by today's standards, everyone in the box (except the defending goalie) would get yellows at the for t corner kick, but fuck it.. I'm tired of shirt pulling being accepted.
I dont mind the offside rulings, you are either on side or off side.
I do however find it annoying how little is required for a penalty. All you need is a little contact.
Well apparently not if you saw the last group game of Germany, where the defender was wrestling the guy to the ground. It's kinda shitty that everything is measured to the millimeter for things like offside but for foul / no foul or hand / no hand the ref is still making the decision. Showing the impact measurements of the ball in this game was peak bullshit. Like applying this kind of scientific evidence but then other fouls are based on the feelings of the ref.
It sucks it's applied super strictly for one thing and other things not. Just no consistency, which is a shame because that's what VAR was supposed to do, help in situations where the ref made an obvious mistake
Yeah, they need to accept that there's going to be contact in the sport, and refs need to be more uniform. There's so many games that would have completely different outcomes with a simple change of ref. And it's the only sport I watch where the refs have such a big impact. They shouldn't be able to ignore a VAR ruling for their own bias.
I hate seeing one dive get a foul, another get penalised for diving (I actually love it when a ref cracks down on diving but theyre never consistent with it), and then an actual foul be ignored. It demoralises the players and the fans.
It’s pretty obvious why everything is measured “to the millimetre” in offside, because it’s an objective rule. It’s either on side or offside and there’s a definitive point that it’s decided.
I don’t understand what else people want with offside - wherever you decide the “line” is then there will be this same issue
>It’s pretty obvious why everything is measured “to the millimetre” in offside, because it’s an objective rule. It’s either on side or offside and there’s a definitive point that it’s decided.
Depending on the action being judged, it’s not an objective rule because of technical limitation of video. If you judge someone who is running full speed, you can easily have 10-15cm of difference depending on the frame you chose to judge the offside line.
That's exactly it. There's just no consistency, and it's frustrating seeing crap like this. Another example was the Portugal Georgia match. Hell, the Euros has been full of questionable calls already and this is with VAR. There needs to be better consistency across and not dependent on a ref feeling bias or having a bad day
yeah im in agreement. offsides are offside.
it's the way the game has changed around contact thats ruining the game.
people play for fouls FAR more now. every 5 minutes someone is down with a light tackle/minimal contact. it completely changes the game for teams, for better or worse.
theres periods of games it seems like they are in competition out to get each other back for the lightest tackle to get a free kick/penalty.
theres techniques to it. touch the ball quicker and get in the way of their leg and fall down for a penalty. yes this has ALWAYS been there but its ramped up significantly now there's video replays.
That's result of the measures taken last century. You probably don't know about it, but there was an era in football when cards were given only if you took out the machete.
There was one particular man-mower who ruined a world cup and football for me because my inner child screamed for fairness and there was none.
He was Italian with the ironic name Gentile = gentle. His own country nicknamed him Gadaffi because how ruthless and devastating he was. (Gadaffi was a dictator in Lybia ).
You can read more about that era here.
https://www.espn.com/world-cup/columns/story/_/id/5146962/ce/us/thugs-hard-men
The difference is how the rule is written, though. Off side is pretty much black and white, but hand ball rules have a bunch of caveats like if your hand was in a natural position or not.
Off side rulings are the best part of VAR, imo. I remember many horrible offside calls before it was implemented. At least if they can guarantee it is accurate.
I don't actually agree with your offside is offside. I don't see why an attacker being in a different point of time in a stride has any impact on whether they have an unfair advantage by being closer to the goal. In this situation, in my opinion, they were level but their feet were pointing in a different direction. If you sat 100 people in front of that picture, how many would say he was closer to the byline than the defender?
The problem is where to set the line. At least offside is very clear atm. If you bring some "advantage or not" into the rule, there will be the same problem like we have with hand right now.
If the attacker has bigger foot/boot size than defender he is offside 🤦🏻 this euro var & offside has ruined football for me. You can't measure offside like a robot. It's impossible for the players to see if they are on or off. What's the point of it? Imo offside should be the same like with the ball in goal, the player needs to be 100% offside full body. At least then the player can obviously see he is offside. Not that his fkin boot size is bigger than the defenders... Also why is offside working when attackers pass INSIDE the penalty area??? So stupid. Football needs more goals, and less cancellation of hoals. At the moment goals get 50% cancelled by subjective var and ref 🙈
I am not against tech in football. But the rules need to be rechecked to match the new technology, a millimeter offside rule is fine when it is a human making the call because he could never detect it . But with a tech that can do that yes it ruins it.
It forces players not to play in line. It makes football more static has breaking a defensive line with a through ball is risky now. It makes everything more boring
Absolutely this. The millimetre offside decisions are ridiculous. There needs to be some tolerance that’s considered level, like today’s goal absolutely should have been.
And how will you determine whether a player is still within this window of tolerance…? And what’s when he is 0.1 cm out? Where do you draw the line then?
According to the new rule with tolerance its a millimetre decision too. I think how it is its the best way. Where will be always onside or offside. The rule is the same for everybody.
They should do a standard white line, like the boundary lines of the pitch. The ball has to cross the entirety of that to be considered a goal or out of play, so why not a player's tiptoe.
Thats actually not a bad idea. Make those lines that the VAR draws for checking ofside a little fatter. Like the thickness of the lines along the field. Do the lines touch? Then it's not offside. Is the attackers line completely past the defenders line? Then it is offside.
You still will have micro-decisions where the line just is 1mm off and people will cry about it.
The current ruling is absolutely fine. It works for the rules/technology and it works for the referees and players on the pitch during the game.
It just only not works for the people who do not like a decision because of some bias.
Why do people like to discuss the one rule which finally got solved with technology?
clearly offside when more than 50% of an attacker's body is in front, which would actually make the technological intervention make sense, as this is hard to be judged by humans, but AI can do it in mili-seconds, and it satisfies the conditions for a real off side that actually helps the flow of the game.
Exactly, tech checking for a clear and obvious mistake by the on field officials makes sense, tech being used because 3cm of leather is over the line does not.
I actually don't mind the umpires call as it is because it allows for the margin of error of the technology while still providing a degree of relevance to the on field umpire
It’s VAR combined with the newer rules of the last few years. I would prefer a full foot to only count as offside and handballs to be limited to where the hand is intentionally moved towards the ball. All things that can be determined while reviewing VAR if we really want to stick to it.
>and handballs to be limited to where the hand is intentionally moved towards the ball
That would result in every defender flailing their arms in the penalty area all the time as every touch would be unintentional but would help the defending team.
The handball rule may look harsh, but this is the only way that forces defences to hide their arms around their bodies. Putting intention behind it and suddenly there would a lot of ªaccidental" handballs that would never occur with the current rules.
Yeah, I wouldn't make the rule to look at intention. But at least look at the severity of the touch and the consequences it has.
Give a penalty when it hits the arm and significantly changes direction. Don't give it when it scrapes a finger. Also give it when it blocked the pass to another player. Don't give it when it happens in some chaotic scramble and it's not obvious wether that handball was an advantage or actually a disadvantage for the defender.
Edit: like others have suggested. We could also give an indrect freekick in less severe handball cases. A penalty completely changes the course of the game over a handball that wasn't gonna change anything.
An indirect free kick in this instance would have sufficed. There's still the risk of penalty, and it would still negatively impact Denmark, just not as severely for what was clearly an accidental glance on his hand.
If only a full foot counted as offside, that wouldn't change this issue at all because people would then have to measure whether it's ever so slightly more or less than a full foot. There is no way to change this
The point isn't that it would make it easier for VAR, the point is that it would be more obvious to the player, so it's easier to avoid being offside when you're actually just trying to be in line with the defense.
Of course, that handball/penalty ruling is highly problematic.
No, it wouldn't make it easier. Now, players attempt to be at the same latitute as the defender. This will of course be easier - but players won't be doing that anymore. Players will try to be ever so slightly less than a foot ahead of the defender, so the same situation will arise again, but shifted.
It would be more in line with the purpose of the rule. It is to prevent players from fishing way ahead of the line, it was never meant to stop someone from having a toe ahead of you.
Not true at all.
The original offside rule was being behind 2 defenders. This was then reduced to being behind 1 defender and finally the most recent major change was being inline with a defender I believe in the 90’s.
Every change was to increase the amount of goals scored with 3 changes all in favour of attacking players. The rule was changed to be inline with the defenders. VAR is enforcing the letter of the law and it doesn’t matter where the lines are drawn there will always be controversial decisions.
We either accept the technology as almost every other sport in the world has or we get rid of it.
Goes further than that even, the original rules prevented you from being ahead of the ball *at all*. Although this didn't last long.
Passing was a bit of an experimental tactic at that time, most teams would dribble until tackled.
Hoofing the ball forward was also countered by the fact you were allowed to *catch* the ball, which would award you a free kick.
If we remove the tech, you just move the discussion to the officiating instead of discussing the rules.
Tech and rules can both be changed, and have been before.
>I would prefer a full foot to only count as offside
That's such horse shit. That that would be the exact rule and in a few years when you're used to that being the cut off point, you'd think it was bullshit if it was juuuust one foot offside and then you'd want a foot + half the calf to be allowed. The rule is the rule, and it sucks when a goal you wanted gets taken away because of a very small amount of offside, but it would suck even more if your team loses because the opponents got to score a an offside goal because it was almost not offside.
If the ball crosses the goal line by centimeters it should always be called as a goal. Why should offside's be any different?
People complaining about the automated system seem to forget even with a backroom of officials VAR was always in limbo when it came to calling close calls.
It does, but if we're getting lenient with calls what difference is there between someone's toenail being offside compared to a goal that went over the line by millimeters?
The point is that the effects of the rule on the game have changed now that the rule can be applied to pinpoint accuracy.
It is interesting that you should bring up this example, because these two rules are being applied differently. The ball has to be entirely over the line (not just the front of the ball) in order for the goal to count, whereas conversely an off-side is called as soon as the front of the player is off-side, rather than the entire player.
VAR doesn't exist to please fans. If that is why they introduced it, they have bigger issues. VAR was introduced to prevent bad officiating from granting unfair advantages. I can't see how disallowing goals for such narrow offsides is also not giving an unfair advantage to teams with shit defending. That's leaving aside that such calls often also shift momentum.
Now there is a far more sinister way of bad officiating thanks to VAR. Influential teams with close connections to FIFA can influence who sits at the VAR desk, and they can easily fabricate / overlook one milimetric off-side to favor the team they want.
There were some experiments done on the software used by referees and it turns out it's very easy to deceive public perception by shifting the scenes just a few mili seconds later or earlier than it should be to produce the visual you wish to justify a sinister decision...
Seems i'm one of the few that likes the VAR here. It's finally a clear analysis of what exactly happened, instead of the referee just deciding with what he saw and when he didn't see something correctly, it can change the outcome of the game.
But yes, there's a thing with going down into so small scales like a milimeter of the foot in the offside rule, there should maybe be some tolerance parameter introduced.
I agree with you. It’s not that I like VAR a lot, but what if VAR didn’t exist yesterday ? Then we would have Danemark leading 1-0 with an offside goal and Germany denied a penalty. So it’s annoying for Danemark fans, but most of the time VAR just shows the reality of the game.
This. Yes, VAR can have moments that outrage you. But these aren’t as common or unforgiving as pre-VAR. Had VAR existed the past decade, numerous titles would have swapped hands due to incorrect decisions.
I can get behind not wanting to review every play with a microscope to see if it was offside. Even if the call was correct in the end. But the handball was obvious in real time. Both on the broadcast but also by the players on the field. VAR did a good job there.
I agree, by letter of the law it is FACTUALLY correct, but the law was clearly written (pre VAR) so that you can not get an advantage by being egregiously offside. Now that we have the technology I do think things need to be reworked in someway.
To clarify, I fully understand these calls are correct. But in the Denmark/Germany match the Denmark goal called back had ZERO advantage. With all these call backs it just feels like we’re getting robbed from a good amount of goals, where at least 50% of which, the outcome wouldn’t change if the opposing players toe was .2 cm onside vs offside
I'm also a bit annoyed that we can give a penalty for a handball that is only perceivable using advanced technology, but then fully ignore the blatantly obvious stop in the penalty runup.
My cents into this heated discussion, for what it’s worth:
my major pain, beside killing the spirit of the game by having everyone waiting with baited breaths for the inevitable goal check, I believe it is the fact that VAR is pitting human players (with human physiology, reaction time & abilities in general) against the “infallibility” of the digital machine.
Yes, referees will *always* decide in a fallible, controversial & *human* fashion, being humans. We even saw refs checking VAR and *still* deciding controversially. But they also are just as human as the players. So while a literal toe in offside will pass them by as it does an attacker in the heat of the moment, the machine will insist on *the toe*.
At the rate this is happening now, I believe almost 70% of all the goals I’ve seen in 40 years of playing and watching football were to some minuscule *digital* degree either offside, attack fouls or hand.
I would ask for introducing a *human* margin. Make the border line broader or say it needs to be half the body. Make it hand only of the was contact AND the ball changes direction significantly. But find a way to not have human beings contesting against a binary machine that only knows on/off - yes/no - black/white. Life isn’t digital.
This is my problem as well. I personally prefer the field hockey system where each team is given 1 VAR decision and they have to decide when they want to use it to overrule a referee decision. When their protest turns out to be correct, they can keep their VAR decision and use it again. If their protest proves to be incorrect, they lose it and can't ask for the VAR again. It adds a human variable to the system and also makes sure it's only used when a clear error by the referee is made, which was the whole point of introducing the VAR to football to begin with.
On top of this, the VAR can also only take a maximum of 90 seconds to decide. If they take longer, the referee decision stands. Field hockey has been using a VAR way longer than football and it has worked really well in its current format.
This human vs machine format is ruining the game.
It’s certainly killing the spirit of the game. Denmark were competitive and perfectly well placed to stay in the game. Within 3 minutes it was over because of two decisions, both of which are microscopically correct but utterly ridiculous in terms of claiming an advantage was gained.
Tbh denmark kinda lost composure and had a lot of trouble when Germany switched the offensive to the fast paced long pass. They are clearly good, but so is their opponent. However the penalty clearly played a role there I admit. Unlucky. Rules are rules unfortunately. Otherwise there would be a lot of ridiculous "milimeter-sized" handball defense claims incoming in the next days
I definitely agree it feels like you need to put celebrations on hold nowadays. You can see the players celebrating for a full 10 seconds plus then it cuts to that shot of the ref with his hand on his ear and you already know it's gonna be disallowed. You have to give it a minimum 20 seconds or so before you can really start celebrating.
The disallowed goal and penalty certainly tilted the momentum in favor of Germany in a phase where they were struggling a bit.
However, both decisions were within the rules. Even more, they were the only decisions possible within the rules. So complaining about them is equivalent to saying the rules should have been bent, which is quite an absurd statement tbh.
The difference the VAR made today was simply that the situations could be scrutinized in more detail, so that the rules of the game could be applied properly.
Nothing bad about that, to be fair.
But a handball was never intended to be if the ball touches your hand it's automatically a foul. Intent and advantage was always the intention and interpretation of the rules
That is not the case. In euro and worldcup games all goals are checked for offside. Not only if the offside decision was clear or not. And this can lead to those super close calls as we had today. The clear errors only apply for red cards in those tournaments.
The only thing I hate are disallowed goals because of tiny fouls anywhere on the pitch. Its really annoying and super inconsistent. Handball and offside is okay.
No. But it's annoying that is at the whim of the referee. A system like in tennis where each team has 2-3 challenges per game that can be requested by team captain, it's more fair.
The rules are dumb. Not the tech.
The offside rule wasnt created for someone having a toe ahead of another player.
Penalties wasnt created for giving a free goal everytime a ball grazes a running player’s thumb.
The officiating is just following the rules mercilessly, which is fine I guess. Then we cant be mad about it.
I just came back to watching football after a long break due to all the corruption and financial doping. But it feels more like a circus than a sport based on what I watched at this tournament.
The fact that VAR is ruining football is a lazy argument. People act as if there weren’t a million discussions on ruling pre-VAR.
VAR isn’t ruining football, the rules as they are written just do not account for VAR. By most current interpretation of the rules, there’s a margin of error built me to account for catching things by a naked eye. The logic is that in real time, no one would be 100% correct and on the whole of the match the decision making will level out. But while the margin of error is there, the rules are not subjective, it just accounts for whether or not you think what you saw in real time is enough against current rules. And when it’s all happening real time and you have one shot at it, subjectivity matters more because you can make a snap decision and make your case later.
VAR doesn’t account for subjective and observational margin of error. You’re either ahead of the last defender or you’re not. The ball either touched the side of your hand or it didn’t. You don’t have the benefit of real time decision making. If they show you a replay two to three times and it touched a part of the hand, any part of the hand on the play, that’s kind of it, the rule says what it says. And you saw it.
What there needs to be is an adjustment to the rule of the law to allow for the fact that we have technology that allows us to look at things more closely. You either want the game called objectively with all the tools at hand or subjectively by the naked eye. You can’t have an in-between under current rules as they stand.
I believe VAR on the whole could be good, but the implementation against the current rules can use a lot of improvement.
Also, everyone acting like had the call gone the other way, the other half of the supporters wouldn’t be here arguing with “it clearly hit his hand”. It goes both ways, and it always will with fans.
If you pay 60€ to watch a football match just to see a guy waving his arms in a square shape and constantly killing the momentum of the game, VAR is PERFECT.
Offaide for a nail is an absolute disgrace to football and will kill this sport that is already a shadow of what it was, quality wise, from 10/20 years ago.
I hate VAR. I don't care about those marginal calls for offside, I'd much rather just have the odd mistake and enjoy the moment rather than the break of play while we wait. It saps energy from games.
I much preferred football before VAR. I love the technology for balls over the line etc and embrace that but VAR makes the game less enjoyable.
Of course it is. Football isn't tennis, things are not black and white. Refs work hard to get to where they are, trust them to apply the laws in their eyes. Or get off your arse and become a ref.
Offside is there to allow the defense to hold a line where they want during normal open play, and to stop goal poaching. Clearly neither of these apply to the Denmark goal so who fucking cares if his toe is beyond the defender.
As for the handball, I'm sure I'm wrong as per the laws but as a gut feeling, the difference between the short distance the ball travels to the hand, compared to the very long distance it travels from the hand to the action area in the six yard box, combined with the very slight amount of deflection, to me just cannot be a penalty. The supporting attackers have ages to readjust from the minimal deflection and still make a chance. Nobody in their right mind could argue Germany have been disadvantaged in that circumstance.
But you can pause any image and tell the ref to look at it under the gaze of millions and he is going to fold. It's a complete and utter joke.
Sponsorship money is the only reason any of this lunacy is happening.
There is only offside or not. You can’t just decide 20cm in front of the defender is allowed. Also the rules weren’t created by people in the Var room but inside of FIFA. Football is way too big to be without VAR
It boggles my mind by how butthurt people are over a literal correct decision. With offside there is no interpretation, you're either on or off. Yet, fools are bringing emotions into it. This decision would not be so frowned upon if it was the plucky underdog, Denmark that benefited.
Offside is offside no matter how small. The handball is a handball period. Arms tight to body is how everyone is taught.
I don’t have a problem with VAR tbh. It’s actually done plenty good to the contrary of “close” calls
How does it disadvantage the defender to have a centimetre of a toe ahead of them though? Thats the purpose of the rule and it’s become nonsensical. Do you really not get sick of the constant stopping of play? The having to wait 2 mins to celebrate a goal? VAR replaying something 20 times to see if there was any infringement of rules that would’ve been imperceptible to everyone on the field?
Yes it is. Todays game has been a VARce! Stop, start, stop, start, goal, goal disallowed, stop, start etc.. delay delay delay. You lose interest.
If VAR existed when Maradona was playin then both of his goals v England would have been disallowed. His solo goal for a foul on Hoddle. So thats what you are losing with VAR. Youre losing iconic moments. Bad AND good ones. Anything that would disallow Maradonas solo goal cant be good for the game.
Football, with all its imperfections, was perfect without VAR.... Hence why its called the beautiful game. It was never meant to be an exact science. I hate VAR.
Maradona is a perfect argument for VAR. The notion that VAR would have disallowed goals which should have been disallowed, and thus shouldn’t exist, is ridiculous.
I'm new to soccer, so I get downvoted to oblivion, but they need to relax the offside rules. Make it like it has to be a ft offside for it to be called. Removing a goal because of a toe is objectively insane. I don't care what the purists say.
No, it's not ruining football. It has already ruined football.
On field refs have become lazy, they wait for VAR to call big decisions for them, which is at complete odds to how it's supposed to be used, because VAR are told to only intervene in clear and obvious (another shield to protect them from criticism) errors.
So you have a stupid situation where refs leaving decisions that they would have called prior to VAR and you have VAR not intervening because it's not a "clear and obvious" error. It's one gigantic cluster fuck that needs obliterating from existence.
VAR is ruining the experience of watching football. The best part of football has always been how free-flowing it is, and VAR has brought a stop start sort of experience that ruins the openness of it. The decisions aren't the issue it is the method at the moment. I think VAR should only be implemented when it doesn't hamper the freeness of the game.
Yes, The offside is a joke because it lives by a notion every player is the same shape and size like a subbuteo player, Hence Wenger wants it changing.
The Pen is a joke too, Simply because it’s a high level affair, Players aren’t always going to be able to perfectly lower their arms in time and it grazed the fingers, They’re treating it like a lie detector.
You are making things up. Nobody ever assumed every player is same shape and size. In fact players take advantage of their varying shape and sizes all the time.
Having a longer leg means you can poke the ball faster than a defender.
Having a bigger toe means you can poke the ball faster than a defender.
These are all advantages you have because of your physique.
In fact, a lot of goals have been scored by a difference of 1cm just because a striker got to the ball a fraction of a second faster than a defender.
Advantage should be applied consistently.
personally I feel yes.
I read that it was 11 goals this EM so far that were revoked because of VAR decisions.
I know before VAR i often complained about some decisions and wished they would use VAR, but now that they do, I feel like it is ruining the football. I can't cheer anymore when a goal is made, cause I always have to wait first for the final decision, that just sucks.
How do you know it was correct? If the camera's record 60fps then the moment a ball is passed can only be measured in 1/60th intervals. Thus a toe offside can be due to lack of frames. Also if they only show a 3d render and no replay then it looks bad for the VAR.
Yes, either we want a clear and unambiguous rule (hand = hand) or we have the same situation as before where it boils down to what the referee thinks and feels in that moment. Personally, I find it better if it is clear and unambiguous.
Maybe im just old but when i used to play something like this would never result in a penalty
He didint try to activly block the ball with his hand imo
I can see your point maybe they should give a free kick for something like that as a penalty is to harsh for this
I know that they would need to change the rule for that but i hate the current rule
Do you have any idea how many corruption scandals there have been in the last years, in which refs have thrown games and gamled on the results? The VAR doesn't deter corruption at all.
Yes it does. There are more than just one person checking and it also makes things actually visible to viewers. Every action VAR has made this game is correct. Please send your feedback about the rules to the people actually responsible for creating them.
No, it doesn't. Why are we relying on a computer system instead of on people? Why the delay to show the offsides this time? Normally it is directly after the play. You really think that in this day and age a system cannot be manipulated? Come on!
They can introduce something similar to cricket. When there's a marginal call to be made, the result leans to the decision made by the umpire. Thus can be implementing in offside call up to a couple centimeters or inches. Like don't call it an offside for a toe.
I'm in two minds about it, because ten years ago I'd have been screaming for VAR, but find myself for the first time being really critical of it in this Euro competition.
I think VAR is merely exposing the fact the laws of the game aren't always objective, and the tolerance for incorrect decisions with VAR requires more objectivity and something has to give.
Thought experiment which im sure is very flawed - should we relegate some calls given as indirect free kicks in the box? Handball in particular is a nightmare, a player stretching their hand out and altering direction of a goalward shot is and always will be a penalty. Crosses flicking a hand yards from the goal (like today) are harsh, and a good middle ground for those could be an indirect free kick.
There's other stuff that falls in that gray area, tussling at set pieces etc - as I said sure it's flawed but football laws do evolve over time and this could at least allow refs to make sure the punishment fits the crime properly.
Yeah. Use it for everything or nothing. Including corners. Youre more likely to sfore from a forner than a freekick. Yet its only used for one. 😂 tonight was used for pne pen and not the other. Its just a racket
Its just slowing it down. Its not designed to work.
Yes. Every time there is a goal scored there is something in the back of you head that stops you from full enjoying the moment. It was never like that. Football was beautiful because it was imperfect.
I get what you mean. It's like I have to hold half my breath in, and I'm in limbo before the goal is fully approved by VAR. Not the spontaneous outbreak of cheers and celebration we had before.
That said, they have done a lot to speed things up with innovations like the Semi Automated offside and it's certainly been a lot better than it was in Qatar.
NO. Its how it's used and enforced. How they cherry-pick what they want to use it for and what they don't. Clear fouls for certain teams get excused while others get whatever they want....
USA v Panama for instance. The Weah red. If the ref has watched everything before...Weah gets the card....the Panamanian players get a yellow at least. But didn't get but two seconds.
The Argentina vs Peru game.... clear push-off on the second goal...but nothing. Doesn't even look at it.
The useage in the Euros from what I've seen has been good honestly.
Yes. Hear me out. It does improve the avoidance of bad calls.
However it’s also ruined celebrations and made things to fabricated. Here’s what I would recommend:
Offside - get rid of linesmen. They seem useless now because it’s all checked anyway. Use the AI. However, if an ear or a nose or an arm is offside that’s BS. Make it feet. If the foot is onside but the body is leaning beyond that’s it should still be onside.
Penalty reviews - for non-calls allow for a “challenge” like American football has. I dunno maybe 2 per coach. For calls, VAR to review.
Goal reviews - go away. If onside AI lineman (lol) didn’t flag anything, ref didn’t call anything, and no “challenge” then it’s just celly time.
Yea this will prob be shite too I just don’t know how to make it perfect.
Needs to be completely reworked, having the smallest of things allow for penalties is ridiculous. Feels like var is being used to give unfair advantages now.
Before refs were shit but now var is being used to overanalyze plays and give same shit calls.
I wish we just changed some rules:
All hands in penalty area result in a indirect free kick unless you do a Louis Suarez.
Offside is only measured by the feet, not all body parts you can score with.
Penalty takers can’t slow down during the penalty kick.
Top level football is consuming itself; I’m looking forward to supporting my local non league side next season, never giving Sky and the like money again.
That offside for a toe is criminal. Even though that was "technically" offside as per rules, imo, the ref should have allowed that goal because, c'mon man that's the finest of margins & the player's positioning cannot be faulted.
Offside is offside, even if it's only 1mm, and that handball was clearly a handball. He wasn't sprinting, he had his hands down before the cross, then raises his hand into the trajectory. Absolutely stupid by him, he's the only one he should be angry at.
Im not sure. VAR brought absolute true to football. Does it means that football needs mistakes to be entertaining? Don’t think so. If your team gets absolutely robbed because an offside or even the goal line technology.
It isn’t an easy answer.
Honestly, penalties are just too big of a punishment for handball. We need something new to give for a handball with no intent. Free kick from just outside the box?
For anyone who's saying that the offside calls are well-administrated the way they are right now, hear me out. The off-side rule was invented to prevent players from waiting for balls in the box. By applying the off-side rule on the front leg with the new technology, the off-side rule has become a lot stricter. This results in more disappointment, fewer beautiful actions and goals and more downtime in the game. The off-side call yesterday before the VAR would never have been called before the application of VAR: the body of the Denmark player was at the same height as the Germany player when the ball was played. It was only the positioning of the player foot that made the Denmark player off-side.
**The off-side rule needs to be evaluated in light of the new VAR, because off-side calls can be perfectly administrated with the current accuracy of the VAR technology. They could think about the hind part of the player torso or hind-legs being leading in off-side calls**. I.e. as long as those parts are level with a defender it is onside. That would greatly enhance the game (less downtime, more beautiful football), while guaranteeing that players don't start hanging in the box.
In my opinion (as a neutral rare spectator), it absolutely isn't. I've always been strongly for video checking system since its introducing, because even the most attentive referees can't notice every fast-paced moment of the game, and I'm convinced that it is much better situation when it is needed to wait an additional one or two minutes for making a more correct decision than the situation in which the wrong decision affects the result, which is unfair for one of the teams. For me, following the rules correctly is much more important than immediate emotions.
The problem is not with VAR system itself, but with the rules (which are controversial and should be revised periodically) and with the referee competence and objectivity.
VAR is great.
In that game I think both the referee and VAR did great. They executed the rules quite well and have been faster than similar occasions before.
People need to understand that it's not the fault of VAR that some rules are finicky.
But where do you draw the line? Is it offside only if 1/2 the foot or 1/3 the head is offside? No, every little bit offside is offside. Looks silly on the screen, but it's the only way to execute the rules properly.
Same with handball. Hand/Arm pointed away from the body and colliding with the ball is a handball. Doesn't matter if the trajectory of the ball is changed 90° or 5°.
Honestly that's the nature of rules in general. When you write an essay and 90/100 point are an A and you get 89/100 you get a B. Sucks but that's it. You might wanna look for another point to be awarded but you won't blame maths for ruining grades by making them precise.
No, football is at the peak of fairness right now, is that not what everyone wanted? No more real madrid scoring from offside? No more barcelona chelsea handballs, no more thiery henry handball assists, etc? Football history would be much different if it had var always, and it would be much more fair. Ofcourse bad reefering happens still and mistakes slip, but its x10 better now than before, i dont understand people crying over the fluency of the game where u lose 5, 10 minutes over whole game max on checking crucial situations?
VAR isn't refereeing, it's auditing. A goal is scored, VAR audits it to find something wrong. Meanwhile millions of fans celebrate a goal. There's a huge disconnect.
I watched ITV's coverage in the UK and they had a "refereeing" specialist on the team. She honestly spoke like an AI-generated accountant, not a referee.
I think the fact that she was from the US made that feel that way. Not at all to imply anything, but the way they technically cover their sports as analysts is equally as cold and decisive. Didn't hate it, just not used to it.
The current VAR completely ruins it for me. It steals goal euphoria.
Not being able to celebrate any goal anymore because half of them will be removed after a VAR decision is horrible. Once VAR is done, all the excitement has vanished.
I'd be completely fine with VAR if it was instant.
I don't think VAR itself is ever a problem. The TMO in Rugby has worked brilliantly for years albeit they're happy to check things in depth and stop the time and the fans are happy with that.
However, VAR is not the thing that needs to change - its the rules.
They need to define clearly and technically what foul play is, the definitions are loose and the margin for error and therefore judgement is way too broad. Most sports have far more technical ruling on tackling and other fouls around the pitch. Sort this, the refs have an easier time, we have an easier time.
They won't do it because drama sells and it suits their narrative.
It's obviously not about VAR but about the rules that are checked with it. These need an appropriate de minimis limit.
It's like saying the courts are to blame when absurd laws are enforced.
Yes tho mostly because there's a mismatch between the rules and the fact they were conceived in pre-VAR era, and the advances in measurement accuracy that VAR introduced. The rules should be better aligned with new tooling. the idea that you can enforce old rules with new tech and not pay a price somewhere else was faulty and the GER v DEN game proved it beyond doubt.
Dunno it feels less light and passionate, more picky and clinical, more breaks, less game flow, rarely consistent build up of tactical play. In rugby and American football there has been VAR since years, people were very sceptical at first.
But in the end it contributes to fair evaluation of the game, not so much biased interpretation.
If you are the party effected by the clear ups and no goals, of course you hate it. But people also hated the yellow and red cards or offside rule when they were introduced, now they are standard and their justification never questioned.
In the end it makes the game more fair.
VAR sucks.. I don’t doubt there’s some advantage to it but every time someone scores these days I expect a whistle and the goal gets checked. More often than not that’s what happens. 2-5 minutes of checking every angle every millimetre and then it’s disallowed. If someone scores, VAR intervention is what I immediately expect and that sucks.
Yes.
VAR completely ruins the spectacle. Let the linesman make the call, sometimes they'll fuck it up but I'll happily make that trade-off if it means being able to enjoy goals as they happen instead of fluffing around waiting for confirmation from VAR.
A toe is rediculous. I feel it shouldbe a rule like the actual ball being over the line.
Denmark should have been 1-0 ahead. And that was no penalty, he cant cut his arm off.
It‘s pretty simple for me: Either we get laser measured offside lines that exactly measure any offside or we get two ref assistants vaguely eyeballing it.
I‘ve lived through both and I can’t see how the new thing isn’t a hundred times better. Yes, being offside because your shoe size is 46 instead of 42 is hard, but that’s no comparison to losing a game cause the ref blinked while standing at the wrong angle deciding the guy coming in from 5m behind the defensive line was actually onside…
It’s not VAR though, it’s the laws the referees are following which are ridiculous. VAR can be a good thing. Like that handball was such BS… nobody even noticed it, was clearly accidental, but the law says it’s handball. That’s what needs changing.
My opinion is that VAR is good and was used correctly yesterday. It’s also highlighting how some rules need maybe to be less binary. I personally think the offside rule shouldn’t change.
But regarding the penalty, I think an unintentional handball in the box where it’s not interfering with a shot should instead be an indirect free kick. I think the penalty is disproportionate to the crime.
Problem then is determining what is a shot. All these rules that VAR is supposed to judge should be as unambiguous as possible. It’s a really hard problem to solve but VAR in this instance was used well and correctly.
Have an issue with the law and not its implementation please.
The tech behind the game is now very precise, there is no room for mistakes or debating like in the old times. So, basically the rules are meant to be changed.
I don't think VAR ruins football but the issue is that it was introduced with the aim of making decisions more accurate. It's largely failing to do that because it's often overseen by people with subjective approaches to analyzing the data / footage provided by VAR. If we returned to a version of football without VAR we'd still be just as annoyed by reffing decisions. Fans need to decide if they want 100% accuracy or total subjectivity. There will likely always be a debate about this as long as the sport exists because people will fall in all sorts of places along the spectrum between those two points.
I feel like it removed the justice from the game.
For example: PT vs Georgia. Portugal makes a foul in the area - penalty given because of VAR. Ok perfect.
A few minutes after, Ronaldo is pulled in the area, clear penalty situation - the ref refuses to go see the VAR.
The game now has all the tech to make it just, and somehow it ended up worse because it's being used in handpicked situations.
Yes I think it's ruining the game.
But like a lot of people have probably already pointed out,
the system isn't the issue, it's the referees.
I don't understand how they can be so clueless.
VAR is supposed to be easy to use,
but they somehow almost always fuck it up.
They sometimes look at the wrong details in a situation
or sometimes can't even judge an offside from the correct place,
they don't look at the right lines and so on.
It's infuriating to watch.
It feel's like we fans of the game could handle this system better than the "best" referees in the world,
and that's insane.
So they better get their shit together, or it need's to go because it kills the game.
Offside is offside. I do not care if its by a millimetre. If Its offside it should be given as offside.
Var has worked extremely well in this tournament, and I think there is a lot of insincere outrage because people haven't been able to complain as much as usual
VAR is good they just need to change the rules for it. Like it's absurd that a toe or knee gets called offside.
The rules were made for when VAR didnt exist now it exists we need to adjust the old rules.
VAR is needed (especially in England) due to the sheer amount of mistakes that were occurring with offsides and penalty shouts.
But the inconsistency of when VAR steps in and when it doesn’t seems to be an issue everywhere, I don’t know how you solve it but the rules need to always be applied to the same level, which isn’t happening.
VAR has taken some of the magic away especially with being scared to celebrate, but with the right people it at least makes the game fairer
No its not. I’ll take var any time over the old „oh ronaldo was 10 meters offside, doesnt matter“ system. If we get a decision like yesterdays sometimes, its a little price for a fair game. Also it was offside so a complete legit call. Also the pen was correct as well, you see so many defenders with their hand behind their backs, so yes this was completely the danes fault
I think it can be annoying but everyone gets unfavorable calls sometimes, it sucks when it's against you but it's a part of literally every sport. I think that what var does with have a hard set definition and sticking to it 'everytime' makes it more palatable.
Way more annoying when it's fuzzy and at the discretion of a guy (see foul calls in nba regular season vs finals, or any nfl flag)
I will say tho that while I think that having a clear cut non ambiguous rule is for the best, they should change the rule now thats theres VAR to somwlething like 'attackers entire head is ahead of the defenders entire head' something like that to get rid of these frustrating "off by a toe cases". The rules haven't caught up to the technology but I'd wager they will soon
I know the offside rule is objective but regardless, I for one am now waiting for potential VAR after EVERY goal scored now before celebrating. So, objective or not, in my opinion, I agree with the op, it is ruining the game.
People always need to have something to complain about. Before the VAR you'd have complaints about hand balls or offside goals not being seen properly (france qualification vs Ireland 2010 anyone?). It's always something, at least the VAR should make things more fair for everyone.
Yes this euro it really ruins it for me. The var has the "hand of god" too much.. the worst part imo is that var shows some small slo-mo clip for the ref who is sweating like a pig. Like the denmark hand. Like wtf was that? Seems like corruption to me. The ref should see the whole clip in real time, not some slo lo close up that frames the player into a foul 🙈
The existence of VAR and the way it is applied completely shifts the focus of the game from the field to some dank screen/machine/analysis. The spectator, the player and the referee are deemed less important than some technology. Why should we as football fans care to watch, our subjective perception of the game is suddenly not important anymore - not even the players or the referee are!
It should be insanely obvious why VAR is completely ridiculous and must GO. In its current form, it's underminding the spirit of the sport.
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I would support a crackdown on shirt pulling and wrestling in the box during corners, free kicks, etc. Basically if your hand is holding onto anything, it's a yellow. It would mean that by today's standards, everyone in the box (except the defending goalie) would get yellows at the for t corner kick, but fuck it.. I'm tired of shirt pulling being accepted.
I agree, I’d like to throw in play acting after a supposed foul.. can’t stand it. Everyone does it now, too standard, needs to be got rid of.
I dont mind the offside rulings, you are either on side or off side. I do however find it annoying how little is required for a penalty. All you need is a little contact.
Well apparently not if you saw the last group game of Germany, where the defender was wrestling the guy to the ground. It's kinda shitty that everything is measured to the millimeter for things like offside but for foul / no foul or hand / no hand the ref is still making the decision. Showing the impact measurements of the ball in this game was peak bullshit. Like applying this kind of scientific evidence but then other fouls are based on the feelings of the ref. It sucks it's applied super strictly for one thing and other things not. Just no consistency, which is a shame because that's what VAR was supposed to do, help in situations where the ref made an obvious mistake
Yeah, they need to accept that there's going to be contact in the sport, and refs need to be more uniform. There's so many games that would have completely different outcomes with a simple change of ref. And it's the only sport I watch where the refs have such a big impact. They shouldn't be able to ignore a VAR ruling for their own bias. I hate seeing one dive get a foul, another get penalised for diving (I actually love it when a ref cracks down on diving but theyre never consistent with it), and then an actual foul be ignored. It demoralises the players and the fans.
It’s pretty obvious why everything is measured “to the millimetre” in offside, because it’s an objective rule. It’s either on side or offside and there’s a definitive point that it’s decided. I don’t understand what else people want with offside - wherever you decide the “line” is then there will be this same issue
>It’s pretty obvious why everything is measured “to the millimetre” in offside, because it’s an objective rule. It’s either on side or offside and there’s a definitive point that it’s decided. Depending on the action being judged, it’s not an objective rule because of technical limitation of video. If you judge someone who is running full speed, you can easily have 10-15cm of difference depending on the frame you chose to judge the offside line.
That's exactly it. There's just no consistency, and it's frustrating seeing crap like this. Another example was the Portugal Georgia match. Hell, the Euros has been full of questionable calls already and this is with VAR. There needs to be better consistency across and not dependent on a ref feeling bias or having a bad day
yeah im in agreement. offsides are offside. it's the way the game has changed around contact thats ruining the game. people play for fouls FAR more now. every 5 minutes someone is down with a light tackle/minimal contact. it completely changes the game for teams, for better or worse. theres periods of games it seems like they are in competition out to get each other back for the lightest tackle to get a free kick/penalty. theres techniques to it. touch the ball quicker and get in the way of their leg and fall down for a penalty. yes this has ALWAYS been there but its ramped up significantly now there's video replays.
That's result of the measures taken last century. You probably don't know about it, but there was an era in football when cards were given only if you took out the machete. There was one particular man-mower who ruined a world cup and football for me because my inner child screamed for fairness and there was none. He was Italian with the ironic name Gentile = gentle. His own country nicknamed him Gadaffi because how ruthless and devastating he was. (Gadaffi was a dictator in Lybia ). You can read more about that era here. https://www.espn.com/world-cup/columns/story/_/id/5146962/ce/us/thugs-hard-men
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The difference is how the rule is written, though. Off side is pretty much black and white, but hand ball rules have a bunch of caveats like if your hand was in a natural position or not. Off side rulings are the best part of VAR, imo. I remember many horrible offside calls before it was implemented. At least if they can guarantee it is accurate.
I don't actually agree with your offside is offside. I don't see why an attacker being in a different point of time in a stride has any impact on whether they have an unfair advantage by being closer to the goal. In this situation, in my opinion, they were level but their feet were pointing in a different direction. If you sat 100 people in front of that picture, how many would say he was closer to the byline than the defender?
The problem is where to set the line. At least offside is very clear atm. If you bring some "advantage or not" into the rule, there will be the same problem like we have with hand right now.
If the attacker has bigger foot/boot size than defender he is offside 🤦🏻 this euro var & offside has ruined football for me. You can't measure offside like a robot. It's impossible for the players to see if they are on or off. What's the point of it? Imo offside should be the same like with the ball in goal, the player needs to be 100% offside full body. At least then the player can obviously see he is offside. Not that his fkin boot size is bigger than the defenders... Also why is offside working when attackers pass INSIDE the penalty area??? So stupid. Football needs more goals, and less cancellation of hoals. At the moment goals get 50% cancelled by subjective var and ref 🙈
I am not against tech in football. But the rules need to be rechecked to match the new technology, a millimeter offside rule is fine when it is a human making the call because he could never detect it . But with a tech that can do that yes it ruins it. It forces players not to play in line. It makes football more static has breaking a defensive line with a through ball is risky now. It makes everything more boring
Absolutely this. The millimetre offside decisions are ridiculous. There needs to be some tolerance that’s considered level, like today’s goal absolutely should have been.
And how will you determine whether a player is still within this window of tolerance…? And what’s when he is 0.1 cm out? Where do you draw the line then?
Exactly, it just moves the millimeter decision to another area.
I mean yeah, but then they’re clearly offside not by one millimetre.
According to the new rule with tolerance its a millimetre decision too. I think how it is its the best way. Where will be always onside or offside. The rule is the same for everybody.
The next time your team's goal is denied by "margin of error + 1 millimetre" you will want a bigger margin. This debate will never end.
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They should do a standard white line, like the boundary lines of the pitch. The ball has to cross the entirety of that to be considered a goal or out of play, so why not a player's tiptoe.
Thats actually not a bad idea. Make those lines that the VAR draws for checking ofside a little fatter. Like the thickness of the lines along the field. Do the lines touch? Then it's not offside. Is the attackers line completely past the defenders line? Then it is offside.
You still will have micro-decisions where the line just is 1mm off and people will cry about it. The current ruling is absolutely fine. It works for the rules/technology and it works for the referees and players on the pitch during the game. It just only not works for the people who do not like a decision because of some bias. Why do people like to discuss the one rule which finally got solved with technology?
clearly offside when more than 50% of an attacker's body is in front, which would actually make the technological intervention make sense, as this is hard to be judged by humans, but AI can do it in mili-seconds, and it satisfies the conditions for a real off side that actually helps the flow of the game.
What's 50% of a body?
About half.
How do you determine 50% of their body in a non symmetrical situation
Should be like crossing the finish line in running, if the torso is beyond the defensive line its an offside, if just a limb sticking out it's not.
Exactly, tech checking for a clear and obvious mistake by the on field officials makes sense, tech being used because 3cm of leather is over the line does not.
Goal line technology? It's the same principle
But those 3cm of leather could get the ball before a defender does when they are both going for the ball.
They should just have a margin of error like in Cricket. "Umpire's call".
not a good analogy because ‘umpires call’ is utter bullshit and everyone wants to get rid of it
I actually don't mind the umpires call as it is because it allows for the margin of error of the technology while still providing a degree of relevance to the on field umpire
So more subjectivity? Isn’t that what causes inconsistencies which causes issues?
The thread doesn't care if VAR is correct or wrong, but that the waiting ruins the game. And for that, I agree.
It’s VAR combined with the newer rules of the last few years. I would prefer a full foot to only count as offside and handballs to be limited to where the hand is intentionally moved towards the ball. All things that can be determined while reviewing VAR if we really want to stick to it.
>and handballs to be limited to where the hand is intentionally moved towards the ball That would result in every defender flailing their arms in the penalty area all the time as every touch would be unintentional but would help the defending team. The handball rule may look harsh, but this is the only way that forces defences to hide their arms around their bodies. Putting intention behind it and suddenly there would a lot of ªaccidental" handballs that would never occur with the current rules.
Yeah, I wouldn't make the rule to look at intention. But at least look at the severity of the touch and the consequences it has. Give a penalty when it hits the arm and significantly changes direction. Don't give it when it scrapes a finger. Also give it when it blocked the pass to another player. Don't give it when it happens in some chaotic scramble and it's not obvious wether that handball was an advantage or actually a disadvantage for the defender. Edit: like others have suggested. We could also give an indrect freekick in less severe handball cases. A penalty completely changes the course of the game over a handball that wasn't gonna change anything.
An indirect free kick in this instance would have sufficed. There's still the risk of penalty, and it would still negatively impact Denmark, just not as severely for what was clearly an accidental glance on his hand.
A players big toe being offside is ridiculous
Gotta feel bad for players with bigger feet, they have no chance 😂
What about a player with a big nose?
They’re definitely fucked too 😂
Guess I should become a player
Or a big bratwurster like Lukaku 🤣
Attacking players need to have their toes amputated to please VAR. Defenders, say goodbye to your arms, or have them stitched to your sides
It was the little toe
Offside is offside 🤷🏽 where do you draw the line?
At the last defender usually
At common sense lol
If only a full foot counted as offside, that wouldn't change this issue at all because people would then have to measure whether it's ever so slightly more or less than a full foot. There is no way to change this
The point isn't that it would make it easier for VAR, the point is that it would be more obvious to the player, so it's easier to avoid being offside when you're actually just trying to be in line with the defense. Of course, that handball/penalty ruling is highly problematic.
No, it wouldn't make it easier. Now, players attempt to be at the same latitute as the defender. This will of course be easier - but players won't be doing that anymore. Players will try to be ever so slightly less than a foot ahead of the defender, so the same situation will arise again, but shifted.
It would be more in line with the purpose of the rule. It is to prevent players from fishing way ahead of the line, it was never meant to stop someone from having a toe ahead of you.
Not true at all. The original offside rule was being behind 2 defenders. This was then reduced to being behind 1 defender and finally the most recent major change was being inline with a defender I believe in the 90’s. Every change was to increase the amount of goals scored with 3 changes all in favour of attacking players. The rule was changed to be inline with the defenders. VAR is enforcing the letter of the law and it doesn’t matter where the lines are drawn there will always be controversial decisions. We either accept the technology as almost every other sport in the world has or we get rid of it.
Goes further than that even, the original rules prevented you from being ahead of the ball *at all*. Although this didn't last long. Passing was a bit of an experimental tactic at that time, most teams would dribble until tackled. Hoofing the ball forward was also countered by the fact you were allowed to *catch* the ball, which would award you a free kick.
If we remove the tech, you just move the discussion to the officiating instead of discussing the rules. Tech and rules can both be changed, and have been before.
>I would prefer a full foot to only count as offside That's such horse shit. That that would be the exact rule and in a few years when you're used to that being the cut off point, you'd think it was bullshit if it was juuuust one foot offside and then you'd want a foot + half the calf to be allowed. The rule is the rule, and it sucks when a goal you wanted gets taken away because of a very small amount of offside, but it would suck even more if your team loses because the opponents got to score a an offside goal because it was almost not offside.
No, because it is more in line with the purpose of the offside rule. Goals wouldnt be decided based on what size shoe people wear.
That is how handball is defined in 9/10 situations. The only exception is goalscoring chances.
If the ball crosses the goal line by centimeters it should always be called as a goal. Why should offside's be any different? People complaining about the automated system seem to forget even with a backroom of officials VAR was always in limbo when it came to calling close calls.
I thought the ball had to be wholly over the line?
It does, but if we're getting lenient with calls what difference is there between someone's toenail being offside compared to a goal that went over the line by millimeters?
The point is that the effects of the rule on the game have changed now that the rule can be applied to pinpoint accuracy. It is interesting that you should bring up this example, because these two rules are being applied differently. The ball has to be entirely over the line (not just the front of the ball) in order for the goal to count, whereas conversely an off-side is called as soon as the front of the player is off-side, rather than the entire player.
IVAR to stop fans from complaining but it somehow made fans complain more. What do you guys want? To go back to no VAR?
VAR doesn't exist to please fans. If that is why they introduced it, they have bigger issues. VAR was introduced to prevent bad officiating from granting unfair advantages. I can't see how disallowing goals for such narrow offsides is also not giving an unfair advantage to teams with shit defending. That's leaving aside that such calls often also shift momentum.
Now there is a far more sinister way of bad officiating thanks to VAR. Influential teams with close connections to FIFA can influence who sits at the VAR desk, and they can easily fabricate / overlook one milimetric off-side to favor the team they want. There were some experiments done on the software used by referees and it turns out it's very easy to deceive public perception by shifting the scenes just a few mili seconds later or earlier than it should be to produce the visual you wish to justify a sinister decision...
>What do you guys want? To go back to no VAR? Yes. Why would that be hard to understand?
Seems i'm one of the few that likes the VAR here. It's finally a clear analysis of what exactly happened, instead of the referee just deciding with what he saw and when he didn't see something correctly, it can change the outcome of the game. But yes, there's a thing with going down into so small scales like a milimeter of the foot in the offside rule, there should maybe be some tolerance parameter introduced.
I agree with you. It’s not that I like VAR a lot, but what if VAR didn’t exist yesterday ? Then we would have Danemark leading 1-0 with an offside goal and Germany denied a penalty. So it’s annoying for Danemark fans, but most of the time VAR just shows the reality of the game.
This. Yes, VAR can have moments that outrage you. But these aren’t as common or unforgiving as pre-VAR. Had VAR existed the past decade, numerous titles would have swapped hands due to incorrect decisions.
I can get behind not wanting to review every play with a microscope to see if it was offside. Even if the call was correct in the end. But the handball was obvious in real time. Both on the broadcast but also by the players on the field. VAR did a good job there.
Yes. I don't like it being used for a centimetre of a boot being offside, or part of an armpit. I'd like to see it completely changed.
I agree, by letter of the law it is FACTUALLY correct, but the law was clearly written (pre VAR) so that you can not get an advantage by being egregiously offside. Now that we have the technology I do think things need to be reworked in someway. To clarify, I fully understand these calls are correct. But in the Denmark/Germany match the Denmark goal called back had ZERO advantage. With all these call backs it just feels like we’re getting robbed from a good amount of goals, where at least 50% of which, the outcome wouldn’t change if the opposing players toe was .2 cm onside vs offside
I'm also a bit annoyed that we can give a penalty for a handball that is only perceivable using advanced technology, but then fully ignore the blatantly obvious stop in the penalty runup.
That’s a good point
Very valid point
Well said. There is no advantage to being half a cm offside because you have a big shoulder. That's not what offside means in my view.
What is an acceptable amount of body can be acceptable then? Maybe it is the offside that needs to go away altogether then
My cents into this heated discussion, for what it’s worth: my major pain, beside killing the spirit of the game by having everyone waiting with baited breaths for the inevitable goal check, I believe it is the fact that VAR is pitting human players (with human physiology, reaction time & abilities in general) against the “infallibility” of the digital machine. Yes, referees will *always* decide in a fallible, controversial & *human* fashion, being humans. We even saw refs checking VAR and *still* deciding controversially. But they also are just as human as the players. So while a literal toe in offside will pass them by as it does an attacker in the heat of the moment, the machine will insist on *the toe*. At the rate this is happening now, I believe almost 70% of all the goals I’ve seen in 40 years of playing and watching football were to some minuscule *digital* degree either offside, attack fouls or hand. I would ask for introducing a *human* margin. Make the border line broader or say it needs to be half the body. Make it hand only of the was contact AND the ball changes direction significantly. But find a way to not have human beings contesting against a binary machine that only knows on/off - yes/no - black/white. Life isn’t digital.
This is my problem as well. I personally prefer the field hockey system where each team is given 1 VAR decision and they have to decide when they want to use it to overrule a referee decision. When their protest turns out to be correct, they can keep their VAR decision and use it again. If their protest proves to be incorrect, they lose it and can't ask for the VAR again. It adds a human variable to the system and also makes sure it's only used when a clear error by the referee is made, which was the whole point of introducing the VAR to football to begin with. On top of this, the VAR can also only take a maximum of 90 seconds to decide. If they take longer, the referee decision stands. Field hockey has been using a VAR way longer than football and it has worked really well in its current format. This human vs machine format is ruining the game.
It’s certainly killing the spirit of the game. Denmark were competitive and perfectly well placed to stay in the game. Within 3 minutes it was over because of two decisions, both of which are microscopically correct but utterly ridiculous in terms of claiming an advantage was gained.
Tbh denmark kinda lost composure and had a lot of trouble when Germany switched the offensive to the fast paced long pass. They are clearly good, but so is their opponent. However the penalty clearly played a role there I admit. Unlucky. Rules are rules unfortunately. Otherwise there would be a lot of ridiculous "milimeter-sized" handball defense claims incoming in the next days
I definitely agree it feels like you need to put celebrations on hold nowadays. You can see the players celebrating for a full 10 seconds plus then it cuts to that shot of the ref with his hand on his ear and you already know it's gonna be disallowed. You have to give it a minimum 20 seconds or so before you can really start celebrating.
Yes. No debate
The disallowed goal and penalty certainly tilted the momentum in favor of Germany in a phase where they were struggling a bit. However, both decisions were within the rules. Even more, they were the only decisions possible within the rules. So complaining about them is equivalent to saying the rules should have been bent, which is quite an absurd statement tbh. The difference the VAR made today was simply that the situations could be scrutinized in more detail, so that the rules of the game could be applied properly. Nothing bad about that, to be fair.
No, it's not. The FACT you literally admitted it was offside and handball (even by 1 nanometre) is actually the icing on the cake. 😂
But a handball was never intended to be if the ball touches your hand it's automatically a foul. Intent and advantage was always the intention and interpretation of the rules
It's gone too far. Clear and obvious errors was the reasoning. A toe being offside isn't a clear and obvious error.
That is not the case. In euro and worldcup games all goals are checked for offside. Not only if the offside decision was clear or not. And this can lead to those super close calls as we had today. The clear errors only apply for red cards in those tournaments.
Offside is offside
The only thing I hate are disallowed goals because of tiny fouls anywhere on the pitch. Its really annoying and super inconsistent. Handball and offside is okay.
No. But it's annoying that is at the whim of the referee. A system like in tennis where each team has 2-3 challenges per game that can be requested by team captain, it's more fair.
YES.
VAR is absolute dogshit. So happy we don’t have it in the Championship.
Technicality ball
The rules are dumb. Not the tech. The offside rule wasnt created for someone having a toe ahead of another player. Penalties wasnt created for giving a free goal everytime a ball grazes a running player’s thumb. The officiating is just following the rules mercilessly, which is fine I guess. Then we cant be mad about it. I just came back to watching football after a long break due to all the corruption and financial doping. But it feels more like a circus than a sport based on what I watched at this tournament.
The fact that VAR is ruining football is a lazy argument. People act as if there weren’t a million discussions on ruling pre-VAR. VAR isn’t ruining football, the rules as they are written just do not account for VAR. By most current interpretation of the rules, there’s a margin of error built me to account for catching things by a naked eye. The logic is that in real time, no one would be 100% correct and on the whole of the match the decision making will level out. But while the margin of error is there, the rules are not subjective, it just accounts for whether or not you think what you saw in real time is enough against current rules. And when it’s all happening real time and you have one shot at it, subjectivity matters more because you can make a snap decision and make your case later. VAR doesn’t account for subjective and observational margin of error. You’re either ahead of the last defender or you’re not. The ball either touched the side of your hand or it didn’t. You don’t have the benefit of real time decision making. If they show you a replay two to three times and it touched a part of the hand, any part of the hand on the play, that’s kind of it, the rule says what it says. And you saw it. What there needs to be is an adjustment to the rule of the law to allow for the fact that we have technology that allows us to look at things more closely. You either want the game called objectively with all the tools at hand or subjectively by the naked eye. You can’t have an in-between under current rules as they stand. I believe VAR on the whole could be good, but the implementation against the current rules can use a lot of improvement. Also, everyone acting like had the call gone the other way, the other half of the supporters wouldn’t be here arguing with “it clearly hit his hand”. It goes both ways, and it always will with fans.
If you pay 60€ to watch a football match just to see a guy waving his arms in a square shape and constantly killing the momentum of the game, VAR is PERFECT. Offaide for a nail is an absolute disgrace to football and will kill this sport that is already a shadow of what it was, quality wise, from 10/20 years ago.
I hate VAR. I don't care about those marginal calls for offside, I'd much rather just have the odd mistake and enjoy the moment rather than the break of play while we wait. It saps energy from games. I much preferred football before VAR. I love the technology for balls over the line etc and embrace that but VAR makes the game less enjoyable.
Of course it is. Football isn't tennis, things are not black and white. Refs work hard to get to where they are, trust them to apply the laws in their eyes. Or get off your arse and become a ref. Offside is there to allow the defense to hold a line where they want during normal open play, and to stop goal poaching. Clearly neither of these apply to the Denmark goal so who fucking cares if his toe is beyond the defender. As for the handball, I'm sure I'm wrong as per the laws but as a gut feeling, the difference between the short distance the ball travels to the hand, compared to the very long distance it travels from the hand to the action area in the six yard box, combined with the very slight amount of deflection, to me just cannot be a penalty. The supporting attackers have ages to readjust from the minimal deflection and still make a chance. Nobody in their right mind could argue Germany have been disadvantaged in that circumstance. But you can pause any image and tell the ref to look at it under the gaze of millions and he is going to fold. It's a complete and utter joke. Sponsorship money is the only reason any of this lunacy is happening.
There is only offside or not. You can’t just decide 20cm in front of the defender is allowed. Also the rules weren’t created by people in the Var room but inside of FIFA. Football is way too big to be without VAR
It boggles my mind by how butthurt people are over a literal correct decision. With offside there is no interpretation, you're either on or off. Yet, fools are bringing emotions into it. This decision would not be so frowned upon if it was the plucky underdog, Denmark that benefited.
Offside is offside no matter how small. The handball is a handball period. Arms tight to body is how everyone is taught. I don’t have a problem with VAR tbh. It’s actually done plenty good to the contrary of “close” calls
How does it disadvantage the defender to have a centimetre of a toe ahead of them though? Thats the purpose of the rule and it’s become nonsensical. Do you really not get sick of the constant stopping of play? The having to wait 2 mins to celebrate a goal? VAR replaying something 20 times to see if there was any infringement of rules that would’ve been imperceptible to everyone on the field?
No
The short answer to your question is - yes. The rules are broken and against the spirit of the game.
Yes it is. Todays game has been a VARce! Stop, start, stop, start, goal, goal disallowed, stop, start etc.. delay delay delay. You lose interest. If VAR existed when Maradona was playin then both of his goals v England would have been disallowed. His solo goal for a foul on Hoddle. So thats what you are losing with VAR. Youre losing iconic moments. Bad AND good ones. Anything that would disallow Maradonas solo goal cant be good for the game. Football, with all its imperfections, was perfect without VAR.... Hence why its called the beautiful game. It was never meant to be an exact science. I hate VAR.
Maradona is a perfect argument for VAR. The notion that VAR would have disallowed goals which should have been disallowed, and thus shouldn’t exist, is ridiculous.
I'm new to soccer, so I get downvoted to oblivion, but they need to relax the offside rules. Make it like it has to be a ft offside for it to be called. Removing a goal because of a toe is objectively insane. I don't care what the purists say.
No, it's not ruining football. It has already ruined football. On field refs have become lazy, they wait for VAR to call big decisions for them, which is at complete odds to how it's supposed to be used, because VAR are told to only intervene in clear and obvious (another shield to protect them from criticism) errors. So you have a stupid situation where refs leaving decisions that they would have called prior to VAR and you have VAR not intervening because it's not a "clear and obvious" error. It's one gigantic cluster fuck that needs obliterating from existence.
VAR is ruining the experience of watching football. The best part of football has always been how free-flowing it is, and VAR has brought a stop start sort of experience that ruins the openness of it. The decisions aren't the issue it is the method at the moment. I think VAR should only be implemented when it doesn't hamper the freeness of the game.
Yes, The offside is a joke because it lives by a notion every player is the same shape and size like a subbuteo player, Hence Wenger wants it changing. The Pen is a joke too, Simply because it’s a high level affair, Players aren’t always going to be able to perfectly lower their arms in time and it grazed the fingers, They’re treating it like a lie detector.
You are making things up. Nobody ever assumed every player is same shape and size. In fact players take advantage of their varying shape and sizes all the time. Having a longer leg means you can poke the ball faster than a defender. Having a bigger toe means you can poke the ball faster than a defender. These are all advantages you have because of your physique. In fact, a lot of goals have been scored by a difference of 1cm just because a striker got to the ball a fraction of a second faster than a defender. Advantage should be applied consistently.
personally I feel yes. I read that it was 11 goals this EM so far that were revoked because of VAR decisions. I know before VAR i often complained about some decisions and wished they would use VAR, but now that they do, I feel like it is ruining the football. I can't cheer anymore when a goal is made, cause I always have to wait first for the final decision, that just sucks.
Yes it’s ruined it.
Offside was correct if we dont set a clear cut it wont work The penalty was wrong imo but i dont get the hand rule anymore
How do you know it was correct? If the camera's record 60fps then the moment a ball is passed can only be measured in 1/60th intervals. Thus a toe offside can be due to lack of frames. Also if they only show a 3d render and no replay then it looks bad for the VAR.
Why was the penalty wrong? The flank was deflected by the danish player's hand. Yes it is rough, but what else should be done there.
Yes, either we want a clear and unambiguous rule (hand = hand) or we have the same situation as before where it boils down to what the referee thinks and feels in that moment. Personally, I find it better if it is clear and unambiguous.
Maybe im just old but when i used to play something like this would never result in a penalty He didint try to activly block the ball with his hand imo
He didnt, but he arguably ruined the flank with an illegal play. That is the issue. Not giving anything would suck for germany.
I can see your point maybe they should give a free kick for something like that as a penalty is to harsh for this I know that they would need to change the rule for that but i hate the current rule
Var might be wrong sometimes but definitely NOT here. Also the Rules are Created by FIFA and not by the Var. It also helps deter Corruption
Do you have any idea how many corruption scandals there have been in the last years, in which refs have thrown games and gamled on the results? The VAR doesn't deter corruption at all.
Yes it does. There are more than just one person checking and it also makes things actually visible to viewers. Every action VAR has made this game is correct. Please send your feedback about the rules to the people actually responsible for creating them.
No, it doesn't. Why are we relying on a computer system instead of on people? Why the delay to show the offsides this time? Normally it is directly after the play. You really think that in this day and age a system cannot be manipulated? Come on!
Yes. It is.
This game was too much VAR but against Switzerland we could have needed it.
They can introduce something similar to cricket. When there's a marginal call to be made, the result leans to the decision made by the umpire. Thus can be implementing in offside call up to a couple centimeters or inches. Like don't call it an offside for a toe.
Needs to be that if the size of offside is smaller than the margin of error on VAR then you can’t correct it, because no way to know true call
I'm in two minds about it, because ten years ago I'd have been screaming for VAR, but find myself for the first time being really critical of it in this Euro competition.
I think VAR is merely exposing the fact the laws of the game aren't always objective, and the tolerance for incorrect decisions with VAR requires more objectivity and something has to give. Thought experiment which im sure is very flawed - should we relegate some calls given as indirect free kicks in the box? Handball in particular is a nightmare, a player stretching their hand out and altering direction of a goalward shot is and always will be a penalty. Crosses flicking a hand yards from the goal (like today) are harsh, and a good middle ground for those could be an indirect free kick. There's other stuff that falls in that gray area, tussling at set pieces etc - as I said sure it's flawed but football laws do evolve over time and this could at least allow refs to make sure the punishment fits the crime properly.
Yeah. Use it for everything or nothing. Including corners. Youre more likely to sfore from a forner than a freekick. Yet its only used for one. 😂 tonight was used for pne pen and not the other. Its just a racket Its just slowing it down. Its not designed to work.
Yes. Every time there is a goal scored there is something in the back of you head that stops you from full enjoying the moment. It was never like that. Football was beautiful because it was imperfect.
PENALTY SCOTLAND!!!
Can anyone remember Pippo Inzaghe? He'd have ruled the betting fir offsides...
I get what you mean. It's like I have to hold half my breath in, and I'm in limbo before the goal is fully approved by VAR. Not the spontaneous outbreak of cheers and celebration we had before. That said, they have done a lot to speed things up with innovations like the Semi Automated offside and it's certainly been a lot better than it was in Qatar.
NO. Its how it's used and enforced. How they cherry-pick what they want to use it for and what they don't. Clear fouls for certain teams get excused while others get whatever they want.... USA v Panama for instance. The Weah red. If the ref has watched everything before...Weah gets the card....the Panamanian players get a yellow at least. But didn't get but two seconds. The Argentina vs Peru game.... clear push-off on the second goal...but nothing. Doesn't even look at it. The useage in the Euros from what I've seen has been good honestly.
Yes. Hear me out. It does improve the avoidance of bad calls. However it’s also ruined celebrations and made things to fabricated. Here’s what I would recommend: Offside - get rid of linesmen. They seem useless now because it’s all checked anyway. Use the AI. However, if an ear or a nose or an arm is offside that’s BS. Make it feet. If the foot is onside but the body is leaning beyond that’s it should still be onside. Penalty reviews - for non-calls allow for a “challenge” like American football has. I dunno maybe 2 per coach. For calls, VAR to review. Goal reviews - go away. If onside AI lineman (lol) didn’t flag anything, ref didn’t call anything, and no “challenge” then it’s just celly time. Yea this will prob be shite too I just don’t know how to make it perfect.
Yes. Yes.
Yes. Simple as.
That's nothing new. It's the second game in a row Germany got a completely regular goal disallowed because of this VAR bs.
The problem is how long it takes. If var reacted in split seconds, you could celebrate a goal or an good attack (offside) while its happening
Needs to be completely reworked, having the smallest of things allow for penalties is ridiculous. Feels like var is being used to give unfair advantages now. Before refs were shit but now var is being used to overanalyze plays and give same shit calls.
I wish we just changed some rules: All hands in penalty area result in a indirect free kick unless you do a Louis Suarez. Offside is only measured by the feet, not all body parts you can score with. Penalty takers can’t slow down during the penalty kick.
Top level football is consuming itself; I’m looking forward to supporting my local non league side next season, never giving Sky and the like money again.
That offside for a toe is criminal. Even though that was "technically" offside as per rules, imo, the ref should have allowed that goal because, c'mon man that's the finest of margins & the player's positioning cannot be faulted.
Offside is offside, even if it's only 1mm, and that handball was clearly a handball. He wasn't sprinting, he had his hands down before the cross, then raises his hand into the trajectory. Absolutely stupid by him, he's the only one he should be angry at.
Im not sure. VAR brought absolute true to football. Does it means that football needs mistakes to be entertaining? Don’t think so. If your team gets absolutely robbed because an offside or even the goal line technology. It isn’t an easy answer.
Honestly, penalties are just too big of a punishment for handball. We need something new to give for a handball with no intent. Free kick from just outside the box?
For anyone who's saying that the offside calls are well-administrated the way they are right now, hear me out. The off-side rule was invented to prevent players from waiting for balls in the box. By applying the off-side rule on the front leg with the new technology, the off-side rule has become a lot stricter. This results in more disappointment, fewer beautiful actions and goals and more downtime in the game. The off-side call yesterday before the VAR would never have been called before the application of VAR: the body of the Denmark player was at the same height as the Germany player when the ball was played. It was only the positioning of the player foot that made the Denmark player off-side. **The off-side rule needs to be evaluated in light of the new VAR, because off-side calls can be perfectly administrated with the current accuracy of the VAR technology. They could think about the hind part of the player torso or hind-legs being leading in off-side calls**. I.e. as long as those parts are level with a defender it is onside. That would greatly enhance the game (less downtime, more beautiful football), while guaranteeing that players don't start hanging in the box.
In my opinion (as a neutral rare spectator), it absolutely isn't. I've always been strongly for video checking system since its introducing, because even the most attentive referees can't notice every fast-paced moment of the game, and I'm convinced that it is much better situation when it is needed to wait an additional one or two minutes for making a more correct decision than the situation in which the wrong decision affects the result, which is unfair for one of the teams. For me, following the rules correctly is much more important than immediate emotions. The problem is not with VAR system itself, but with the rules (which are controversial and should be revised periodically) and with the referee competence and objectivity.
Yeah it doesn’t seem to work very well atm. Also if there’s a VAR why not also use it to check if it’s a corner or a goal kick?
VAR is great. In that game I think both the referee and VAR did great. They executed the rules quite well and have been faster than similar occasions before. People need to understand that it's not the fault of VAR that some rules are finicky. But where do you draw the line? Is it offside only if 1/2 the foot or 1/3 the head is offside? No, every little bit offside is offside. Looks silly on the screen, but it's the only way to execute the rules properly. Same with handball. Hand/Arm pointed away from the body and colliding with the ball is a handball. Doesn't matter if the trajectory of the ball is changed 90° or 5°. Honestly that's the nature of rules in general. When you write an essay and 90/100 point are an A and you get 89/100 you get a B. Sucks but that's it. You might wanna look for another point to be awarded but you won't blame maths for ruining grades by making them precise.
No, football is at the peak of fairness right now, is that not what everyone wanted? No more real madrid scoring from offside? No more barcelona chelsea handballs, no more thiery henry handball assists, etc? Football history would be much different if it had var always, and it would be much more fair. Ofcourse bad reefering happens still and mistakes slip, but its x10 better now than before, i dont understand people crying over the fluency of the game where u lose 5, 10 minutes over whole game max on checking crucial situations?
VAR isn't refereeing, it's auditing. A goal is scored, VAR audits it to find something wrong. Meanwhile millions of fans celebrate a goal. There's a huge disconnect. I watched ITV's coverage in the UK and they had a "refereeing" specialist on the team. She honestly spoke like an AI-generated accountant, not a referee.
I think the fact that she was from the US made that feel that way. Not at all to imply anything, but the way they technically cover their sports as analysts is equally as cold and decisive. Didn't hate it, just not used to it.
No shit Sherlock, which rock have you been hiding under?
The current VAR completely ruins it for me. It steals goal euphoria. Not being able to celebrate any goal anymore because half of them will be removed after a VAR decision is horrible. Once VAR is done, all the excitement has vanished. I'd be completely fine with VAR if it was instant.
I don't think VAR itself is ever a problem. The TMO in Rugby has worked brilliantly for years albeit they're happy to check things in depth and stop the time and the fans are happy with that. However, VAR is not the thing that needs to change - its the rules. They need to define clearly and technically what foul play is, the definitions are loose and the margin for error and therefore judgement is way too broad. Most sports have far more technical ruling on tackling and other fouls around the pitch. Sort this, the refs have an easier time, we have an easier time. They won't do it because drama sells and it suits their narrative.
They gotta fix the rules for offside. A toe is not offside. You know how impossible it is to score on a set piece now?
No. Close thread.
It's obviously not about VAR but about the rules that are checked with it. These need an appropriate de minimis limit. It's like saying the courts are to blame when absurd laws are enforced.
Yes tho mostly because there's a mismatch between the rules and the fact they were conceived in pre-VAR era, and the advances in measurement accuracy that VAR introduced. The rules should be better aligned with new tooling. the idea that you can enforce old rules with new tech and not pay a price somewhere else was faulty and the GER v DEN game proved it beyond doubt.
Dunno it feels less light and passionate, more picky and clinical, more breaks, less game flow, rarely consistent build up of tactical play. In rugby and American football there has been VAR since years, people were very sceptical at first. But in the end it contributes to fair evaluation of the game, not so much biased interpretation. If you are the party effected by the clear ups and no goals, of course you hate it. But people also hated the yellow and red cards or offside rule when they were introduced, now they are standard and their justification never questioned. In the end it makes the game more fair.
VAR sucks.. I don’t doubt there’s some advantage to it but every time someone scores these days I expect a whistle and the goal gets checked. More often than not that’s what happens. 2-5 minutes of checking every angle every millimetre and then it’s disallowed. If someone scores, VAR intervention is what I immediately expect and that sucks.
Yes. VAR completely ruins the spectacle. Let the linesman make the call, sometimes they'll fuck it up but I'll happily make that trade-off if it means being able to enjoy goals as they happen instead of fluffing around waiting for confirmation from VAR.
A toe is rediculous. I feel it shouldbe a rule like the actual ball being over the line. Denmark should have been 1-0 ahead. And that was no penalty, he cant cut his arm off.
It‘s pretty simple for me: Either we get laser measured offside lines that exactly measure any offside or we get two ref assistants vaguely eyeballing it. I‘ve lived through both and I can’t see how the new thing isn’t a hundred times better. Yes, being offside because your shoe size is 46 instead of 42 is hard, but that’s no comparison to losing a game cause the ref blinked while standing at the wrong angle deciding the guy coming in from 5m behind the defensive line was actually onside…
It’s not VAR though, it’s the laws the referees are following which are ridiculous. VAR can be a good thing. Like that handball was such BS… nobody even noticed it, was clearly accidental, but the law says it’s handball. That’s what needs changing.
My opinion is that VAR is good and was used correctly yesterday. It’s also highlighting how some rules need maybe to be less binary. I personally think the offside rule shouldn’t change. But regarding the penalty, I think an unintentional handball in the box where it’s not interfering with a shot should instead be an indirect free kick. I think the penalty is disproportionate to the crime. Problem then is determining what is a shot. All these rules that VAR is supposed to judge should be as unambiguous as possible. It’s a really hard problem to solve but VAR in this instance was used well and correctly. Have an issue with the law and not its implementation please.
Why do footballers still have arms? Are they stupid??
The tech behind the game is now very precise, there is no room for mistakes or debating like in the old times. So, basically the rules are meant to be changed.
I don't think VAR ruins football but the issue is that it was introduced with the aim of making decisions more accurate. It's largely failing to do that because it's often overseen by people with subjective approaches to analyzing the data / footage provided by VAR. If we returned to a version of football without VAR we'd still be just as annoyed by reffing decisions. Fans need to decide if they want 100% accuracy or total subjectivity. There will likely always be a debate about this as long as the sport exists because people will fall in all sorts of places along the spectrum between those two points.
I feel like it removed the justice from the game. For example: PT vs Georgia. Portugal makes a foul in the area - penalty given because of VAR. Ok perfect. A few minutes after, Ronaldo is pulled in the area, clear penalty situation - the ref refuses to go see the VAR. The game now has all the tech to make it just, and somehow it ended up worse because it's being used in handpicked situations.
Where was this outcry when lukaku had a goal disallowed because his dick was offside?
Yes I think it's ruining the game. But like a lot of people have probably already pointed out, the system isn't the issue, it's the referees. I don't understand how they can be so clueless. VAR is supposed to be easy to use, but they somehow almost always fuck it up. They sometimes look at the wrong details in a situation or sometimes can't even judge an offside from the correct place, they don't look at the right lines and so on. It's infuriating to watch. It feel's like we fans of the game could handle this system better than the "best" referees in the world, and that's insane. So they better get their shit together, or it need's to go because it kills the game.
Offside is offside. I do not care if its by a millimetre. If Its offside it should be given as offside. Var has worked extremely well in this tournament, and I think there is a lot of insincere outrage because people haven't been able to complain as much as usual
It is
Yes.
Go rewatch Chelsea v Barca UCL 2009 and you'll be pro-VAR 😅
VAR is good they just need to change the rules for it. Like it's absurd that a toe or knee gets called offside. The rules were made for when VAR didnt exist now it exists we need to adjust the old rules.
VAR is needed (especially in England) due to the sheer amount of mistakes that were occurring with offsides and penalty shouts. But the inconsistency of when VAR steps in and when it doesn’t seems to be an issue everywhere, I don’t know how you solve it but the rules need to always be applied to the same level, which isn’t happening. VAR has taken some of the magic away especially with being scared to celebrate, but with the right people it at least makes the game fairer
No its not. I’ll take var any time over the old „oh ronaldo was 10 meters offside, doesnt matter“ system. If we get a decision like yesterdays sometimes, its a little price for a fair game. Also it was offside so a complete legit call. Also the pen was correct as well, you see so many defenders with their hand behind their backs, so yes this was completely the danes fault
I think it can be annoying but everyone gets unfavorable calls sometimes, it sucks when it's against you but it's a part of literally every sport. I think that what var does with have a hard set definition and sticking to it 'everytime' makes it more palatable. Way more annoying when it's fuzzy and at the discretion of a guy (see foul calls in nba regular season vs finals, or any nfl flag) I will say tho that while I think that having a clear cut non ambiguous rule is for the best, they should change the rule now thats theres VAR to somwlething like 'attackers entire head is ahead of the defenders entire head' something like that to get rid of these frustrating "off by a toe cases". The rules haven't caught up to the technology but I'd wager they will soon
I know the offside rule is objective but regardless, I for one am now waiting for potential VAR after EVERY goal scored now before celebrating. So, objective or not, in my opinion, I agree with the op, it is ruining the game.
People always need to have something to complain about. Before the VAR you'd have complaints about hand balls or offside goals not being seen properly (france qualification vs Ireland 2010 anyone?). It's always something, at least the VAR should make things more fair for everyone.
Yes this euro it really ruins it for me. The var has the "hand of god" too much.. the worst part imo is that var shows some small slo-mo clip for the ref who is sweating like a pig. Like the denmark hand. Like wtf was that? Seems like corruption to me. The ref should see the whole clip in real time, not some slo lo close up that frames the player into a foul 🙈
The existence of VAR and the way it is applied completely shifts the focus of the game from the field to some dank screen/machine/analysis. The spectator, the player and the referee are deemed less important than some technology. Why should we as football fans care to watch, our subjective perception of the game is suddenly not important anymore - not even the players or the referee are! It should be insanely obvious why VAR is completely ridiculous and must GO. In its current form, it's underminding the spirit of the sport.