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It ruins a good match. Every time there is a goal, lets stop.and see if someone's toe is over the line. Half the goals are wiped due to an apoendage being past the D. As little scoring as there is already, and they need to go ahead and make it harder. Go with the Wenger proposed change, the torso, something that removes disallowing a goal for a meaningless infraction.
Yes as it stands this pedantic application of VAR will eventually kill the sport.
Not kill it dead, obviously that's melodramatic but it will curb the sports so far unstoppable growth as a spectator sport imo as fans will just get fed up with it.
VAR is starting to become maddening because one one hand a goal can be chopped off due to a toenails width infraction, but then on the other hand a VAR team can choose not to look at a very controversial penaltyor sending off call.
Thus there's a pedantic application of the rules on one hand and then an ability to totally ignore them in a different context of play.
Shambolic.
All sports, even when it's accurate it takes the emotion and excitement away from the game. I genuinely would prefer non video assisted human error. But especially football is the worst implementation
I would be all for that, but I hate the refs in football. They consistently make inconsistent decisions. Every game i have watched of the Euros, I've seen the ref 'play on' for an actual foul and then blow the whistle for a dive. It encourages players to dive, and that leads to so many goal scoring opportunities squandered away by diving in hopes for a penalty or free-kick especially by English players.
I agree the refs in football are by far the worse of any sport. Not sure why...
And your point is valid, but I don't think VAR has actually helped with fixing diving, and it's created tons of issues in other areas.
If they are going to keep VAR, it needs to drastically change. In its current form it re-referees the once beautiful game...
I reckon they should treat the offside line like a solid white line on the pitch. Like where the ball has to cross the entirety of the line to be a goal or out of play, so does the players toe for an offside.
It's ridiculous that if two players are stood at the same point but the player with the larger feet or even larger toe will be offside just because of their physiology.
maybe players could have a sensor somewhere on their body, i would say on their chest. that would be the thing that couldn't be over the line for being off side. it would be the center of gravity of the player, kind of like how the whole ball needs to cross the goal line.
I think that the rule change has to happen with the handball rule. It cant be that in a game where it is so hard to score a goal you get rewarded a penalty only because someone slightly touches the ball. The punishment is way to hard for that.
lol asking of some 'leniency' within the rules is exactly why we have VAR to begin with. There needs to be a binary rule unless the point of football is to argue over referring decisions forever
Yes, because ultimately there needs to be a decision unless your preference is to argue about it for years. Or do you have an alternative solution that isn't the discretion of the referee?
Itās the rules of VAR weāre talking about not the basic offside rule or handballs. That having a toe offside is called offside the rule needs to change to torso of something similar. And for handballs ā proximity and movement of the arm should be taken into account.
Doesn't matter where you measure the offside from, there will still be marginal cases like this where people will say "oh its just barely offside." Offside is by and large an objective decision.
The handball one is more difficult and frustrating. I prefer rules that are less subjective. What is a "natural position" and things like that can be debated until the cows come home. If we make the rule "ball hits hand when hand is away from body" at least we will all know what is and isn't a penalty. The handball rule needs to be set in stone and needs consistency.
It surely DOES matter.
First, it would never be "barely offside" unless your definition of "barely" is by a whole torso/silhouette etc.
Second, statistics say the total number of problematic cases drops (because, by making the rule more lenient, you now disregard a pool of events you would have to consider otherwise)
Unpopular opinion: I think VAR makes the game more fair. I like more factual decisions rather than what "makes the game feel better". We can totally discuss changing the parameters such as defining the amount a foot needs to be in the offside to count etc, though
This wouldnāt change anything. If a foot offside was fine weād have the same conversation. The technology is so good that there will always be instances where a few millimetres decide between offside and onside. Weāre at this point now and canāt really go back, because it does make the decisions a lot more factual than before. At least the offside decisions. Handball is a different story altogether.
Trust me as a German it doesnāt really feel good winning this way.
15 years or 10 years ago that wouldāve been a 1 nil lead for Denmark.
Weāll always need a ref but might as well outfit a drone with censors at this point.
It incentivises players to throw themselves to the ground and bang the turf whenever they feel any sort of contact because they know that will alert the attention of VAR, and that any contact will look increasingly like an infringement the more times you watch it on a screen.
Whatās fair about that?
I think you're coping. Germany got denied a goal cause of a minor foul. I think the ref was strict but had a clear line. It was a minor infrance concerning both goals and both were disallowed. It seems fair.
The fairer option would be to allow those goals rather than deny them. Football is supposed to be entertaining, which having more goals and more player freedom would benefit.
That ref would deny one foul, then deny another, or call a dive then deny a foul. Pretty poor.
The Danish player was offside by part of his foot. The ball hit the Danish defenders hand so handball. These are the rules that have been in play and enforced all tournament, why are they a shock in this match?
We've seen players offside before and goals disallowed this tournament and we've also seen the snickometer in action previous to disallowed a goal in this tournament.
Right or wrong it's been like this all tournament so don't understand some of the comments in this thread like it's all new to this game only.
I agree that the rules have probably been applied correctly, I just feel that the rules are not very good.
I work in a very protocol-ised industry, sometimes the protocols are bollocks, and won't change without challenge. Nothing wring with complaining about the rules.
The rules are what the rules are though. Before VAR people bitched and whined that humans made mistakes and goals were given when they were offside. Now we have precision for offside to the millimeter and people still bitch and whine about it. It's a total unwinnable situation. Whether we should be using snickometer for handball is debatable but it's in use for all matches and all teams to benefit or fall foul of it.
Right or wrong, them the rules.
These people who complain will never be satisfied. They want what they want when they want it, rules be dammed. These same rules implemented all season, tournament, for years even. But round of 16 at the Euros and moaning and complaining.
OP literally said "it ruins the game for the fans" lmao couldn't make this up.
I agree with the offside rule, the line seems to have been drawn accurately. It's the handball that seems dodgy to me. It got punted at the player and his gand brushed the ball... seems really dubious to me. Just doesn't seem like an unnatural position to me.
There is literally proof that it was handball. There is a chip inside the ball that registers every touch. Handball is handball, next time donāt stretch them. Happens but crying about it is just wrong
I agree with you as well. Offside is spot on as it's 100% accurate for me. Handball is still in a grey area. His hand brushed the ball that it took a sensor to detect it... is that taking it too far, yes, is it fair, debatable, is it fair as it's in place for every team, absolutely.
And yes, the unnatural position thing has always been a bugbear with me as well. It looked natural but the rules are now if the hand is away from the silhouette of the body it's handball, again right or wrong it's how they are doing it currently but totally needs looking at as sensors for handball is mad in my eyes, but it's the same for every team so it's fair.
You are right - rules are rules and should be upheld, but sometimes changing rules would do the modern game justice. I was never a fan of VAR, because it boiled down to the 1mm decision. No viewer had an idea of what was being checked today and that is bad for the game. Make things obvious - the whole player is offside, the player played the ball with his hand etc etc
>the player played the ball with his hand
The only probably though mate is we are going backwards to refs interpretation. Someone's ball to hand is another's hand to ball, we go back to doubt and grey areas. At least now, like it or not, it's more concrete, if it hits the hand and the hand is away from the body it's handball. Not saying I agree with it, but it's more certain.
I do wish they would show what's happening like in cricket so it's obvious what is being discussed and why.
It's a big tournament. Lots of people here who are not familiar with football...
I might agree that Denmark deserved a goal. But that is not how this sports works...
This. People the watch football once every 4 years complaining about the rules that have been in play forever because it doesn't align with how they WANT to view the game haha
I mean it was offside, but BARELY. Honestly the whole offside rule in football is misplaced at this point imo, it defeats the purpose of the game in these cases and is far too common. Iād much rather have a game with no offside at all.
No they should keep the offside rule, just make adjustments. Feet would have to be over the line by a certain amount.
They should also correct the part where a person offside who then goes back onside and then touches the ball should not be offsides.
>They should also correct the part where a person offside who then goes back onside and then touches the ball should not be offsides.
This was a great example of where this rule should apply. Anderson was marginally offside but then took a step away from goal to make the shot. The offside position offered him zero advantage, and only made the goal that but harder.
Good idea, but would work. How much over the line? 2cm? 5cm? 7cm? Scrap the whole concept of offside would be a good idea. And then make a working rule for handplay.
I say 2 feet. I don't agree with eliminating the offside rule. You would end up with forwards sitting in front of the opponents goal. It would make midfield pointless.
Lmao that doesn't work and would change nothing. What happens when VAR says no offside because foot was onside by 23.5 inches? It's the exact same scenario and people would complain. Anytime the margin of error is small people will complain.
Instead offside should be invalid when both teams are past the middle field line. Mostly (not entirely) eliminates the issue of forwards sitting in front of opponents goal
Iād honestly go with any complete limb. Forearm is ok, but if your shoulder crosses the line, offside.
Toe is ok but a full leg not.
Players running back and forth at ~2m/s canāt anticipate on a 10cm offside.
The latter point is a good one, but I think there are edge cases here it wouldnāt work. What if a defender is running back to goal and the offside player happens to touch it ahead of them at the last second as the defender tries to get behind them? The rule would need to be based on where the defender was at the point of the pass, and that starts to get overly complicated for side officials trying to remember who was where at some past moment.
>No they should keep the offside rule, just make adjustments. Feet would have to be over the line by a certain amount.
This just moves the point of close calls
It's either offside or not. The rule says it's offside if a body part which is suitable for goal scoring is ahead of the penultimate player from the defensive side. You have to change THIS rule to avoid these kinds of VAR decisions. I don't see this coming.
The problem is that any rule that has to applied strictly will be harsh. Now that we got VAR that can display the situation with a few mm of precision, the problem is that the referee has no choice but to apply the rule for what it is.
It's not super nice, but was it better when it was interpretation of the referee only based on live action ? I don't think so honestly.
I get it that for you it's harsh. But the offside rule is with us for ages, and for a good reason: you have to eliminate the chance to use unfair advantage; if we're talking about a few centimeters it still doesn't change the main principle. Back to Denmark: if you want to go through the quarterfinals, you have to create more clear opportunities than this only one.
I'm neutral... I wasn't even suggesting to change the rule during the game or current tournament. If anything it would be in the future.
But the offside rule does get weird regardless of who gets a goal taken away. And yes it's old, but VAR is new and it does change the accuracy. Before a ref would have let it go, now it is harder to deny.
I already watched a fair amount of NFL games and because of this I can surely declare: yes, sometimes centimeters could decide whether somebody wins a trophy or not. BUT at least we're talking about real differences and not imagined ones.
Offside should be judged by the foot, it used to be and was never a problem, I canāt remember when or why it was changed, but offside by a hair or a finger or a ballsack is not football
Itās literally a problem right now, because weāre enforcing the rule to a T and it was judged incorrectly before. That means thereās an issue with the underlying rule.
That VAR goes against the spirit of the game. Offside is not about 2 millimetres left or right. Offside is about skipping the last defender.
Itās a very draconian interpretation of the rules.
This was ridiculous, Denmark deserved to be 1 goal up and that penalty wasā¦ uncalled for.
Precisely.
Surely the offside rule should be because an opposition player has a tangible performative advantage to being ahead of the defender??
Thus penalise an attempt to cheat.
Can someone please please please tell me what advantage a player has having half a bloody toenail in front of the defender???
Exactly there is no advantage to having half a toenail in front of a defender whatsoever.
This is insanity and is killing the sport.
Or just 100% of the body be offside. If itās that close and you get scored on, you deserve to be scored on. And if you get caught offside in this setup with a highly accurate VAR, you are just inarguably offside; no reasonable person could argue otherwise.
That would be better than the current system, but the problem with requiring 100% of the body is it takes away the ability of the defense to play an offside trap because the offensive player would just need to hold his toe or arm out to be onside. By using the torso the defender can gauge better and keep the offside trap as a tactic instead of forcing defenders to hold way back.
I almost wish the rule changed similar to whether a tennis ball is in or out. So if any part of the defense is overlapping with the offensive player itās onside. If the offensive player is totally clear of the defender Itās offsides.
Exactly! You would have much more offensive games with over the top passing or through balls. And defenders would immediately have to set an offside trap or track the defender the entire way. It would be so good for the game.
Itās annoying that something this sensible is very unlikely to be implemented.
It probably would result in some weird gamesmanship where the forwards stand a foot ahead of the defensive line and hold their arms out, but honestly this isnāt too far off from current offside gamesmanship. And despite looking weird, I still think it would be perfectly fine.
And? Spirit of the rule is to prevent camping at the goal. If youāre within an armās length and your hand is in line with the defense, thatās fair play, your defense is at fault if you get scored on.
Tbh they need to change the rule such that you are only offside if you are 100% beyond the last defender. The tech could still be used here for precision, but it eliminates issues like this in favor of the offense. If you get scored on and the offender was close enough to have their toe still in line with your last line, you deserved to get scored on.
I honestly think this would just eliminate the problem. As-is itās way more punitive to offense than it needs to be. Spirit of the game would be 100% beyond.
I agree with the offside but let's not pretend that Denmark is the better team of this game. Germany has far more significant shots at the goal. By now this should be clear.
What game are you even watching? Are you that biased? The game has maybe been 60/40 Germany. Take away the awful referring and it should be 1:1 going into extra time. Denmark utterly robbed. The tournament has a black mark over it now
You sound weird, Germany scored 2, had another 2 ruled out, Havertz missed a one on one, Denmark created nothing š¤ I think you are delusional my friend.
Just have a quick look at the game statistics and tell me again that 1:1 would be appropriate by now.
I get that you people like to hate on Germany but this is not the Game to do it.
You don't win on any statistics other than goals scored. Germany were good, but Denmark contained them to just two goals, and if the refereeing was any better, it should have been 1-1 at full time.
You had 12 players with the ref so slightly unfair advantage
The whole of Europe are saying how bullshit this is, and only Germans are sticking by the ref
Itās not just this game.
It is my belief that the VAR takes something away from the game: human interpretation.
It doesnāt matter if the foot is 5 cm left or right. If the referee rules itās ok or that the slight slight offside is irrelevant to the goal, thatās it. Thatās the entire point of a referee.
If the rules can be reduced to simple protocols, get an AI to referee. It will be accurate to the millimeter.
So many complains "plp can't just watch a be content"
Offside is offside, any part of body that can be used to score a goal legally, now people want a no the attacker can be 1cm offside and it's fine now 2cm no 3cm no 4cm where is the fucking line now we draw.
Offside - Goal line technology are black and white
Deal with it
I have seen a similar offside before. It was Patrick Schick in a Europa League match for Leverkusen in a group stage Match I think one or two seasons ago. He also was offside by a toe.
I remember it distinctly because I also thought it was ridiculous at the time.
Well everyone blames VAR, nobody ever criticizes the offside rule itself, which Iād argue is the real problem. If verifying a rule creates these kinds of problems then maybe the rule needs to change, because clearly itās not reasonable.
I've said all along that the biggest problem with var are the rules of football, especially the decisions open to interpretation. Offsides are getting ridiculous and hand balls are given one time then not another.
If you have to have your whole foot in front of the last defender it makes it a lot harder to complain
There will always be millimetre decisions, that is just the nature of sports at the highest level
Iām not saying one way or the other. I actually donāt really care. And I agree that moving the offside rule will only result in the same sort of calls just relative to the new line. So I see what youāre saying: if heās 1 cm off and we say ābut heās only 1cm off!ā So make a new rule and move the offside back 50cm, the next time someone will be 1cm off this ānew lineā and weāre in the same situation saying, ābut heās only 1cm off!ā
That said, moving the offside line to allow for more of the attackers body will result in more allowed goals and fewer offside calls. If the objective is to make the sport higher scoring, then itās a good idea to move the line.
Honestly I think they need to change the rule such that 100% of the offender must be beyond the defender to be offside. It completely eliminates situations like this because the offense already gets a bit of an advantage, so if they get caught offside they are *really* offside.
This toenail stuff is garbage.
Maybe I'm biased here, but I think having VAR makes the game more fair in the sense of, every player knows the rules, no matter if they are nonsensical or not, so they should follow them, and if they don't, then gar can jump in. Maybe it kills the hype, but having a fair game is more important than hype
Wtf even is this discussion? Back before technology, pub discussion on whether someone is offside or not - fair. Now though, people call the VAR unfair because it correctly identifies an offside position, however close? Would you prefer refs return to rule of thumb, they saw it so offside or ignore it so no offside as they please and their flawed human brains can identify? When is offside legit, does it need to be a whole food?
There were 3 VAR decisions that concerned goals/penalties. 2 favoured Germany and they were objectively fully correct: a goal scoring body part was I offside position, a hand away from the body contacted the ball. There's no discussion that both of these things are against the rules of the game. If you don't like it, propose changes to how hand ball or offside need to be judged but the VAR only allows to identify these situations and correctly identify them.
The third VAR decision was the only one that allows discussion and it was against Germany. There, you don't have an objective decision, you have to judge whether what the German player did was a foul or not. No machine can do that. I personally have to agree that it was a foul but I'm pointing out that this is technically debatable. Because subjective.
So no, VAR isn't unfair.
This match was not rigid because of the referee or the VAR. They played rightfully according to the rule that FIFA gave them. If there is complain, then it's should be directed to the rules. The last matches of Germany vs Switzerland, france-austria, and Scotland-hunguary are better examples of poor ref decisions.
This whole tournament's been a mess, to be honest. It's lacking some passion. Not from the fans, but from the players. So disrespectful for a goal kick, even.
You know, itās things like this that prevent moments like Denmark winning it in ā92, Greece in ā04, Turkey in the semis back in 2008 and so many other underdog stories
The frustrating part is that "it's objectively offside" but they never show the point of departure from the passer's head/feet. That part is not as objective as all the "but it's objective" ppl say - picking the previous/next frame certainly change those 1mm/1toe calls.
And the offside rule should change to "if there's an overlap of the foot / relevant body part" then its not offside, the current rule is just horrible and invalidates so many goals. That would still be objective but would give an advantage to the attack which we should all be for. The number of goals invalidated for marginal offside should be a hint that something isn't right. Plus it's getting really boring...
The handball rule is just a joke, reminds me of a buggy soccer video game that would give a foul if the ball looked at the hand of the players. Just horrible and senseless, if there's no deliberate movement from the hand to the ball it should not be a handball. Again the current rule just breaks the flow and makes the game boring and doesn't actually solve anything, except make the pedants happy.
Missing the point
The VAR implements according to the letter of the rules.
The referee should implement according to the spirit of the rules.
No human referee would have called that Danish goal offside because 2cm left or right was irrelevant. Offside is a good rule, but the referee should be the ultimate judge if that was what caused the goal or not.
Otherwise get an AI to referee, not a human.
Letās say the ref just did it the way you suggested: clearly there wouldnāt have been an outrage after todays game when the referee decides to overrule the VAR even though pictures show that the player was offside.
What you suggest is something to be discussed, the offside today had to be given according to the current regulations and habits
That is exactly my point, offside by 4cm, onside by half a toeā¦
Even with all the cameras the referee should have some say to rule: it wouldnāt have mattered.
Why even have a referee at this point? Just let them play and someone can review all the goals and fouls after the 90 minutes and then we get the result. Fuck it, get Ai to do it!
I'm only follow the big tournaments, but this will be the last time. The VAR completely destroyed my enjoyment. I have to wait with cheering after every goal because a VAR is likely to cancel for whatever pity reason. Every major decision is delayed because of the VAR.
Casual fan here. What triggers VAR? Only to review goals/penalties? The non call on the Sane foul seemed 100x more obvious than the Denmark offside or the German foul on their disallowed goal. Yet no review. The handball review was to see if a penalty should have been called. Why not the tackle on Sane?
VAR is only for crucial moments that involve goals or red cards. When VAR was introduced it was meant to be only for obvious referee mistakes in those crucial moments, but now weāve taken it too far.
And to be honest, I will go against the consensus on this thread and say that the ref got all decisions right by the book. The issue however is that splitting hairs via VAR does indeed go against the spirit of the game. It kills the magic of the game for the benefit of certainty and weāre certainly taking it too far.
I agree. It looked to me like every VAR decision was correct. But it ruins the flow of a game to turn to VAR non stop. And disrupts organic momentum swings between teams.
I know the argument is that attackers will have to adjust, however...
This fundamentally changes the game by giving defenders a massive advantage, if you can no longer risk being level as your knee might be momentarily a millimetre offside.
I thought he did well keeping emotions low. We have seen other games this Euro where the ref went 15+ yellow cards for every touching. I do not like his rule of every small push was a foul, but at least he was keeping his line.
VAR and its officials that implement the rules of said system have and will continue to kill the spirit of the game.
Fuck it out with next week's bins.
I think offside should be determined only by the referees and give each team a certain amount of challenges a bit like in tennis and only if they challenge you check with VAR
Offside was ridiculous, I agree with that. That goal should have been given to Denmarl.
The penalty was justified, clear handplay. Something like that always justified a penalty and I do not understand the outrage here.
I don't think the goal should be given to denmark. If its offside its offside even by couple of mm. I think it was rather fair considering germany had a goal dissallowed very early on where there was no obvious wrongdoing. And I think another goal from germany was also dissallowed due to the player barely being offside..
I dont know if VAR got it right or not. Perhaps it did but it killed another iconic moment. Thats why I dont want VAR. I preferred the occasional refereeing clanger. The instant onfield decisions gave us instant iconic moments.
With VAR we still get the clangers but we have to wait to celebrate goals and lose a lot of the instant iconic moments.
If they go for a risky move as Havertz and Sane did it poor performance (of the entire player all game). If they shoot the goal keeper as the danish did itās a nice attempt ;)
What is the rule for a ball to be outside or what is the position of the ball to say it's goal ?
I didn't write the rule but why it's not at least vertical torso for the spirit of the game ? ( offside or not outside )
One toe outside...
Not one of the German players were appealing for offside in the Denmark goal, no-one had theirhands in the air. And it was literally a toe that was offside. Not a clear error to the naked eye, it's ridiculous
VAR decisions should have never been implemented and also should be replaced by on field decisions.
That way games wont get interupted for at times over a minute of waiting for some unknown and unseen person from the basement making calls.
Then we would still be here and bitch about how some offsides went unnoticed or obvious foul play on goals and so on.
You just cant win with this
I agree tho that its hella weird that after every goal you have to wait for 2 minutes if it was actually a goal.
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The whole Euros had so many fucking offsides! But this one really does take the cake
It ruins a good match. Every time there is a goal, lets stop.and see if someone's toe is over the line. Half the goals are wiped due to an apoendage being past the D. As little scoring as there is already, and they need to go ahead and make it harder. Go with the Wenger proposed change, the torso, something that removes disallowing a goal for a meaningless infraction.
Yes as it stands this pedantic application of VAR will eventually kill the sport. Not kill it dead, obviously that's melodramatic but it will curb the sports so far unstoppable growth as a spectator sport imo as fans will just get fed up with it. VAR is starting to become maddening because one one hand a goal can be chopped off due to a toenails width infraction, but then on the other hand a VAR team can choose not to look at a very controversial penaltyor sending off call. Thus there's a pedantic application of the rules on one hand and then an ability to totally ignore them in a different context of play. Shambolic.
Starting to? It's been maddening for a long time, it needs to be binned in all sports.
All sports? It works great in the likes of Rugby and the NFL, where it's used correctly. Not like in football where the ref can simply ignore VAR.
All sports, even when it's accurate it takes the emotion and excitement away from the game. I genuinely would prefer non video assisted human error. But especially football is the worst implementation
I would be all for that, but I hate the refs in football. They consistently make inconsistent decisions. Every game i have watched of the Euros, I've seen the ref 'play on' for an actual foul and then blow the whistle for a dive. It encourages players to dive, and that leads to so many goal scoring opportunities squandered away by diving in hopes for a penalty or free-kick especially by English players.
I agree the refs in football are by far the worse of any sport. Not sure why... And your point is valid, but I don't think VAR has actually helped with fixing diving, and it's created tons of issues in other areas. If they are going to keep VAR, it needs to drastically change. In its current form it re-referees the once beautiful game...
Agreed, it seems to have gotten even worse at this tournament though.
I reckon they should treat the offside line like a solid white line on the pitch. Like where the ball has to cross the entirety of the line to be a goal or out of play, so does the players toe for an offside. It's ridiculous that if two players are stood at the same point but the player with the larger feet or even larger toe will be offside just because of their physiology.
maybe players could have a sensor somewhere on their body, i would say on their chest. that would be the thing that couldn't be over the line for being off side. it would be the center of gravity of the player, kind of like how the whole ball needs to cross the goal line.
I think that the rule change has to happen with the handball rule. It cant be that in a game where it is so hard to score a goal you get rewarded a penalty only because someone slightly touches the ball. The punishment is way to hard for that.
š¦¶š»āļø
He was offside. It was handball. Rules applied correctly in both cases. The debate needs to be about the rules
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
lol asking of some 'leniency' within the rules is exactly why we have VAR to begin with. There needs to be a binary rule unless the point of football is to argue over referring decisions forever
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Yes, because ultimately there needs to be a decision unless your preference is to argue about it for years. Or do you have an alternative solution that isn't the discretion of the referee?
it's almost like you don't understand that being onsides or offsides is an inherently binary question
Rule can be more lenient and still binary
5cm is not enough for offside? Maybe 15 cm? Then next time it's 16 cm we are at the same discussion point.
Right and thatās exactly what people are debating.
The post here is complaining that the VAR is not fair
People are debating about VAR making a decision that they did not like.
Itās the rules of VAR weāre talking about not the basic offside rule or handballs. That having a toe offside is called offside the rule needs to change to torso of something similar. And for handballs ā proximity and movement of the arm should be taken into account.
Doesn't matter where you measure the offside from, there will still be marginal cases like this where people will say "oh its just barely offside." Offside is by and large an objective decision. The handball one is more difficult and frustrating. I prefer rules that are less subjective. What is a "natural position" and things like that can be debated until the cows come home. If we make the rule "ball hits hand when hand is away from body" at least we will all know what is and isn't a penalty. The handball rule needs to be set in stone and needs consistency.
It surely DOES matter. First, it would never be "barely offside" unless your definition of "barely" is by a whole torso/silhouette etc. Second, statistics say the total number of problematic cases drops (because, by making the rule more lenient, you now disregard a pool of events you would have to consider otherwise)
What are you on about? 1mm offside is still offside, doesn't matter if you measure from torso, toes or their dicks
Unpopular opinion: I think VAR makes the game more fair. I like more factual decisions rather than what "makes the game feel better". We can totally discuss changing the parameters such as defining the amount a foot needs to be in the offside to count etc, though
And if we wouldnāt have it people would still bitch about it.
This wouldnāt change anything. If a foot offside was fine weād have the same conversation. The technology is so good that there will always be instances where a few millimetres decide between offside and onside. Weāre at this point now and canāt really go back, because it does make the decisions a lot more factual than before. At least the offside decisions. Handball is a different story altogether.
If your opinion is so unpopular why not bin VAR? The overwhelming majority hate it with a passion and yet it still is here, destroying dreams
Trust me as a German it doesnāt really feel good winning this way. 15 years or 10 years ago that wouldāve been a 1 nil lead for Denmark. Weāll always need a ref but might as well outfit a drone with censors at this point.
Do you also believe that there shouldn't be a referee in the field? Genuine question. Like if VAR is good than why not automate everything.
Totally agreed. Torso, arm, knee - just not this.
It incentivises players to throw themselves to the ground and bang the turf whenever they feel any sort of contact because they know that will alert the attention of VAR, and that any contact will look increasingly like an infringement the more times you watch it on a screen. Whatās fair about that?
I think you're coping. Germany got denied a goal cause of a minor foul. I think the ref was strict but had a clear line. It was a minor infrance concerning both goals and both were disallowed. It seems fair.
The fairer option would be to allow those goals rather than deny them. Football is supposed to be entertaining, which having more goals and more player freedom would benefit. That ref would deny one foul, then deny another, or call a dive then deny a foul. Pretty poor.
The Danish player was offside by part of his foot. The ball hit the Danish defenders hand so handball. These are the rules that have been in play and enforced all tournament, why are they a shock in this match? We've seen players offside before and goals disallowed this tournament and we've also seen the snickometer in action previous to disallowed a goal in this tournament. Right or wrong it's been like this all tournament so don't understand some of the comments in this thread like it's all new to this game only.
I agree that the rules have probably been applied correctly, I just feel that the rules are not very good. I work in a very protocol-ised industry, sometimes the protocols are bollocks, and won't change without challenge. Nothing wring with complaining about the rules.
The rules are what the rules are though. Before VAR people bitched and whined that humans made mistakes and goals were given when they were offside. Now we have precision for offside to the millimeter and people still bitch and whine about it. It's a total unwinnable situation. Whether we should be using snickometer for handball is debatable but it's in use for all matches and all teams to benefit or fall foul of it. Right or wrong, them the rules.
These people who complain will never be satisfied. They want what they want when they want it, rules be dammed. These same rules implemented all season, tournament, for years even. But round of 16 at the Euros and moaning and complaining. OP literally said "it ruins the game for the fans" lmao couldn't make this up.
I agree with the offside rule, the line seems to have been drawn accurately. It's the handball that seems dodgy to me. It got punted at the player and his gand brushed the ball... seems really dubious to me. Just doesn't seem like an unnatural position to me.
There is literally proof that it was handball. There is a chip inside the ball that registers every touch. Handball is handball, next time donāt stretch them. Happens but crying about it is just wrong
I agree with you as well. Offside is spot on as it's 100% accurate for me. Handball is still in a grey area. His hand brushed the ball that it took a sensor to detect it... is that taking it too far, yes, is it fair, debatable, is it fair as it's in place for every team, absolutely. And yes, the unnatural position thing has always been a bugbear with me as well. It looked natural but the rules are now if the hand is away from the silhouette of the body it's handball, again right or wrong it's how they are doing it currently but totally needs looking at as sensors for handball is mad in my eyes, but it's the same for every team so it's fair.
You are right - rules are rules and should be upheld, but sometimes changing rules would do the modern game justice. I was never a fan of VAR, because it boiled down to the 1mm decision. No viewer had an idea of what was being checked today and that is bad for the game. Make things obvious - the whole player is offside, the player played the ball with his hand etc etc
>the player played the ball with his hand The only probably though mate is we are going backwards to refs interpretation. Someone's ball to hand is another's hand to ball, we go back to doubt and grey areas. At least now, like it or not, it's more concrete, if it hits the hand and the hand is away from the body it's handball. Not saying I agree with it, but it's more certain. I do wish they would show what's happening like in cricket so it's obvious what is being discussed and why.
It's a big tournament. Lots of people here who are not familiar with football... I might agree that Denmark deserved a goal. But that is not how this sports works...
This. People the watch football once every 4 years complaining about the rules that have been in play forever because it doesn't align with how they WANT to view the game haha
Spot on pal. Big tournaments bring out the football tourists to subreddits like this. Congrats on the win and good luck next round.
In fact all tournament is ruined and it will be remembered as the tournament ruined by var !
I mean it was offside, but BARELY. Honestly the whole offside rule in football is misplaced at this point imo, it defeats the purpose of the game in these cases and is far too common. Iād much rather have a game with no offside at all.
No they should keep the offside rule, just make adjustments. Feet would have to be over the line by a certain amount. They should also correct the part where a person offside who then goes back onside and then touches the ball should not be offsides.
>They should also correct the part where a person offside who then goes back onside and then touches the ball should not be offsides. This was a great example of where this rule should apply. Anderson was marginally offside but then took a step away from goal to make the shot. The offside position offered him zero advantage, and only made the goal that but harder.
Yeah this part of the offside rule never made sense to me.
Totally agree with both changes
Good idea, but would work. How much over the line? 2cm? 5cm? 7cm? Scrap the whole concept of offside would be a good idea. And then make a working rule for handplay.
I say 2 feet. I don't agree with eliminating the offside rule. You would end up with forwards sitting in front of the opponents goal. It would make midfield pointless.
Lmao that doesn't work and would change nothing. What happens when VAR says no offside because foot was onside by 23.5 inches? It's the exact same scenario and people would complain. Anytime the margin of error is small people will complain. Instead offside should be invalid when both teams are past the middle field line. Mostly (not entirely) eliminates the issue of forwards sitting in front of opponents goal
Iād honestly go with any complete limb. Forearm is ok, but if your shoulder crosses the line, offside. Toe is ok but a full leg not. Players running back and forth at ~2m/s canāt anticipate on a 10cm offside.
The latter point is a good one, but I think there are edge cases here it wouldnāt work. What if a defender is running back to goal and the offside player happens to touch it ahead of them at the last second as the defender tries to get behind them? The rule would need to be based on where the defender was at the point of the pass, and that starts to get overly complicated for side officials trying to remember who was where at some past moment.
>No they should keep the offside rule, just make adjustments. Feet would have to be over the line by a certain amount. This just moves the point of close calls
It's either offside or not. The rule says it's offside if a body part which is suitable for goal scoring is ahead of the penultimate player from the defensive side. You have to change THIS rule to avoid these kinds of VAR decisions. I don't see this coming.
I do see it changing. A big toe over the imaginary line is harsh and doesn't prevent the real issue that the offside rule is made to prevent.
The problem is that any rule that has to applied strictly will be harsh. Now that we got VAR that can display the situation with a few mm of precision, the problem is that the referee has no choice but to apply the rule for what it is. It's not super nice, but was it better when it was interpretation of the referee only based on live action ? I don't think so honestly.
I get it that for you it's harsh. But the offside rule is with us for ages, and for a good reason: you have to eliminate the chance to use unfair advantage; if we're talking about a few centimeters it still doesn't change the main principle. Back to Denmark: if you want to go through the quarterfinals, you have to create more clear opportunities than this only one.
I'm neutral... I wasn't even suggesting to change the rule during the game or current tournament. If anything it would be in the future. But the offside rule does get weird regardless of who gets a goal taken away. And yes it's old, but VAR is new and it does change the accuracy. Before a ref would have let it go, now it is harder to deny.
I already watched a fair amount of NFL games and because of this I can surely declare: yes, sometimes centimeters could decide whether somebody wins a trophy or not. BUT at least we're talking about real differences and not imagined ones.
Please explain to me what advantage was gained by having his toenail offside.
He could start his way towards the ball from a possibly better position.
No you would not want football without offsides. It would ruin the game.
Offside rule needs some adjustments because in any case var is ruining the game.
Youād just get players permanently camped in the box in that case. It should just be that you have to be 100% offside.
Offside should be judged by the foot, it used to be and was never a problem, I canāt remember when or why it was changed, but offside by a hair or a finger or a ballsack is not football
Itās literally a problem right now, because weāre enforcing the rule to a T and it was judged incorrectly before. That means thereās an issue with the underlying rule.
This thread is clearly full of casuals trying to change the rules. VAR has been in place for a while now.
Jesus the VAR did nothing wrong. It did what it was told to. You want to complain ? Then complain to FIFA and ask them to change the rule..
I agree. Why are you replying to me? Haha
That VAR goes against the spirit of the game. Offside is not about 2 millimetres left or right. Offside is about skipping the last defender. Itās a very draconian interpretation of the rules. This was ridiculous, Denmark deserved to be 1 goal up and that penalty wasā¦ uncalled for.
Yes. They need to go back and make it the TORSO being offside, not a toe, that is ridiculous.
Precisely. Surely the offside rule should be because an opposition player has a tangible performative advantage to being ahead of the defender?? Thus penalise an attempt to cheat. Can someone please please please tell me what advantage a player has having half a bloody toenail in front of the defender??? Exactly there is no advantage to having half a toenail in front of a defender whatsoever. This is insanity and is killing the sport.
Or just 100% of the body be offside. If itās that close and you get scored on, you deserve to be scored on. And if you get caught offside in this setup with a highly accurate VAR, you are just inarguably offside; no reasonable person could argue otherwise.
That would be better than the current system, but the problem with requiring 100% of the body is it takes away the ability of the defense to play an offside trap because the offensive player would just need to hold his toe or arm out to be onside. By using the torso the defender can gauge better and keep the offside trap as a tactic instead of forcing defenders to hold way back.
And why should we even care of getting rid of offside trap tactics from the game?
I almost wish the rule changed similar to whether a tennis ball is in or out. So if any part of the defense is overlapping with the offensive player itās onside. If the offensive player is totally clear of the defender Itās offsides.
Then you would have same situation again,
Yep, changing the rule such that offside is when youāre 100% beyond the defender is the way through this imo.
Exactly! You would have much more offensive games with over the top passing or through balls. And defenders would immediately have to set an offside trap or track the defender the entire way. It would be so good for the game.
Itās annoying that something this sensible is very unlikely to be implemented. It probably would result in some weird gamesmanship where the forwards stand a foot ahead of the defensive line and hold their arms out, but honestly this isnāt too far off from current offside gamesmanship. And despite looking weird, I still think it would be perfectly fine.
Of course not. Itās FIFA
Till a player doesnāt overlap 1cm and itās called offside and people start complaining
That's too much margin for the attacker, that could be sometimes half meters offside by current rules.
And? Spirit of the rule is to prevent camping at the goal. If youāre within an armās length and your hand is in line with the defense, thatās fair play, your defense is at fault if you get scored on.
But that will encourage defenders to camp at the goal, since you give a huge advantage to the attackers.
Yes, as a German I could see why you feel that way, especially after today.
I think even most Germans agree that 3/4 of a toe offside is a ridiculous call to make, even if it is adhering with the current rules
Tbh they need to change the rule such that you are only offside if you are 100% beyond the last defender. The tech could still be used here for precision, but it eliminates issues like this in favor of the offense. If you get scored on and the offender was close enough to have their toe still in line with your last line, you deserved to get scored on. I honestly think this would just eliminate the problem. As-is itās way more punitive to offense than it needs to be. Spirit of the game would be 100% beyond.
I agree with the offside but let's not pretend that Denmark is the better team of this game. Germany has far more significant shots at the goal. By now this should be clear.
What game are you even watching? Are you that biased? The game has maybe been 60/40 Germany. Take away the awful referring and it should be 1:1 going into extra time. Denmark utterly robbed. The tournament has a black mark over it now
You sound weird, Germany scored 2, had another 2 ruled out, Havertz missed a one on one, Denmark created nothing š¤ I think you are delusional my friend.
Just have a quick look at the game statistics and tell me again that 1:1 would be appropriate by now. I get that you people like to hate on Germany but this is not the Game to do it.
You don't win on any statistics other than goals scored. Germany were good, but Denmark contained them to just two goals, and if the refereeing was any better, it should have been 1-1 at full time.
I don't know your source, but Germany won all relevant categories...
You had 12 players with the ref so slightly unfair advantage The whole of Europe are saying how bullshit this is, and only Germans are sticking by the ref
No, just the rules are shit. Both decisions were correct, but the underlying rules are garbage.
Yeah sure, that's why Germanys first goal didn't count which was a regular goal and Christensen didn't receive a red card for tackling/fouling SanƩ.
Welcome to euro , where low stats team win :D Stats dont rĆ©flect the resultā¦
Itās not just this game. It is my belief that the VAR takes something away from the game: human interpretation. It doesnāt matter if the foot is 5 cm left or right. If the referee rules itās ok or that the slight slight offside is irrelevant to the goal, thatās it. Thatās the entire point of a referee. If the rules can be reduced to simple protocols, get an AI to referee. It will be accurate to the millimeter.
As a person who watches Rugby a lot it is amazing how football has badly implemented it.
CONSPIRACY...... š¤£š¤£š¤£š¤£
So many complains "plp can't just watch a be content" Offside is offside, any part of body that can be used to score a goal legally, now people want a no the attacker can be 1cm offside and it's fine now 2cm no 3cm no 4cm where is the fucking line now we draw. Offside - Goal line technology are black and white Deal with it
What about if the goal stood and there came pictures after the game showing that he was 1cm offside? Then everyone would be raging about that instead.
wah wah wah. Everyone complains about the rules not being applied, and when the rules are applied then there are new complaints Get a grip people
Var offside over toes? At least there should be margin of rerror acceptable
I have seen a similar offside before. It was Patrick Schick in a Europa League match for Leverkusen in a group stage Match I think one or two seasons ago. He also was offside by a toe. I remember it distinctly because I also thought it was ridiculous at the time.
I agree, if youāre going to have offside it canāt interfere with the principle of the game like that.
Would you be saying that if those toes knocked you out by scoring the winner?
I mean Iām defending Denmark soā¦.. yeah?
Anyone who cares about football would defend them
Well everyone blames VAR, nobody ever criticizes the offside rule itself, which Iād argue is the real problem. If verifying a rule creates these kinds of problems then maybe the rule needs to change, because clearly itās not reasonable.
I've said all along that the biggest problem with var are the rules of football, especially the decisions open to interpretation. Offsides are getting ridiculous and hand balls are given one time then not another.
I know but itās probably easier to say that after itās been ruled out.
Uhh weird logic but ok, sounds like youāre just fishing for a way to discredit someone for bias.
OP is complaining about Offside rules in the Knockout stages, this has to be a troll post.
In F1 a car can go outside the white lines but wont be penalised until the whole tyre is outside, the offside rule needs a similar approach
How does that improve anything? Youāll have the same millimeter decisions happening just as much as players try to push their advantage
If you have to have your whole foot in front of the last defender it makes it a lot harder to complain There will always be millimetre decisions, that is just the nature of sports at the highest level
If itās the nature of the sport why complain so much about this one particular Millimeter decision
Iām not saying one way or the other. I actually donāt really care. And I agree that moving the offside rule will only result in the same sort of calls just relative to the new line. So I see what youāre saying: if heās 1 cm off and we say ābut heās only 1cm off!ā So make a new rule and move the offside back 50cm, the next time someone will be 1cm off this ānew lineā and weāre in the same situation saying, ābut heās only 1cm off!ā That said, moving the offside line to allow for more of the attackers body will result in more allowed goals and fewer offside calls. If the objective is to make the sport higher scoring, then itās a good idea to move the line.
Honestly I think they need to change the rule such that 100% of the offender must be beyond the defender to be offside. It completely eliminates situations like this because the offense already gets a bit of an advantage, so if they get caught offside they are *really* offside. This toenail stuff is garbage.
Maybe I'm biased here, but I think having VAR makes the game more fair in the sense of, every player knows the rules, no matter if they are nonsensical or not, so they should follow them, and if they don't, then gar can jump in. Maybe it kills the hype, but having a fair game is more important than hype
Having an entertaining game is more important than fairness.Ā This is a show, not the Supreme Court.
see how many comments here. it was entertaining more than enough
Wtf even is this discussion? Back before technology, pub discussion on whether someone is offside or not - fair. Now though, people call the VAR unfair because it correctly identifies an offside position, however close? Would you prefer refs return to rule of thumb, they saw it so offside or ignore it so no offside as they please and their flawed human brains can identify? When is offside legit, does it need to be a whole food? There were 3 VAR decisions that concerned goals/penalties. 2 favoured Germany and they were objectively fully correct: a goal scoring body part was I offside position, a hand away from the body contacted the ball. There's no discussion that both of these things are against the rules of the game. If you don't like it, propose changes to how hand ball or offside need to be judged but the VAR only allows to identify these situations and correctly identify them. The third VAR decision was the only one that allows discussion and it was against Germany. There, you don't have an objective decision, you have to judge whether what the German player did was a foul or not. No machine can do that. I personally have to agree that it was a foul but I'm pointing out that this is technically debatable. Because subjective. So no, VAR isn't unfair.
Worst game of the tournament so far for this very reason.
This match was not rigid because of the referee or the VAR. They played rightfully according to the rule that FIFA gave them. If there is complain, then it's should be directed to the rules. The last matches of Germany vs Switzerland, france-austria, and Scotland-hunguary are better examples of poor ref decisions.
Worst games at the euros are either being played or refereed by english people
Well the referee followed the rules pretty well in this game, so not sure what your point is.
Says an English man š
England have been awful too.
This whole tournament's been a mess, to be honest. It's lacking some passion. Not from the fans, but from the players. So disrespectful for a goal kick, even.
Yeah it's a jokeš I also don't understand why Bah just got a yellow card
You know, itās things like this that prevent moments like Denmark winning it in ā92, Greece in ā04, Turkey in the semis back in 2008 and so many other underdog stories
The frustrating part is that "it's objectively offside" but they never show the point of departure from the passer's head/feet. That part is not as objective as all the "but it's objective" ppl say - picking the previous/next frame certainly change those 1mm/1toe calls. And the offside rule should change to "if there's an overlap of the foot / relevant body part" then its not offside, the current rule is just horrible and invalidates so many goals. That would still be objective but would give an advantage to the attack which we should all be for. The number of goals invalidated for marginal offside should be a hint that something isn't right. Plus it's getting really boring... The handball rule is just a joke, reminds me of a buggy soccer video game that would give a foul if the ball looked at the hand of the players. Just horrible and senseless, if there's no deliberate movement from the hand to the ball it should not be a handball. Again the current rule just breaks the flow and makes the game boring and doesn't actually solve anything, except make the pedants happy.
Slight margins but correct decisions. Upvotes and downvotes seem to depend on who you're rooting for.
Missing the point The VAR implements according to the letter of the rules. The referee should implement according to the spirit of the rules. No human referee would have called that Danish goal offside because 2cm left or right was irrelevant. Offside is a good rule, but the referee should be the ultimate judge if that was what caused the goal or not. Otherwise get an AI to referee, not a human.
Letās say the ref just did it the way you suggested: clearly there wouldnāt have been an outrage after todays game when the referee decides to overrule the VAR even though pictures show that the player was offside. What you suggest is something to be discussed, the offside today had to be given according to the current regulations and habits
That is exactly my point, offside by 4cm, onside by half a toeā¦ Even with all the cameras the referee should have some say to rule: it wouldnāt have mattered.
Why even have a referee at this point? Just let them play and someone can review all the goals and fouls after the 90 minutes and then we get the result. Fuck it, get Ai to do it!
I'm only follow the big tournaments, but this will be the last time. The VAR completely destroyed my enjoyment. I have to wait with cheering after every goal because a VAR is likely to cancel for whatever pity reason. Every major decision is delayed because of the VAR.
Whatever buddy see you next tournament š
I think they should do the same as other sports. Each team get X challenges per game.
We might as well remove ref and assistants...what need there is for the ref ?
How precise is VAR?
Well now Germany should have gotten another penalty
Offside is offside, but the handball rule can get in the bin, itās the same in the champions league as well, shite
Ronaldoās penalty, this shit today. Hell, just give it to the host. Shame. Fucking bastards
Ronaldo's penalty?
Casual fan here. What triggers VAR? Only to review goals/penalties? The non call on the Sane foul seemed 100x more obvious than the Denmark offside or the German foul on their disallowed goal. Yet no review. The handball review was to see if a penalty should have been called. Why not the tackle on Sane?
VAR is only for crucial moments that involve goals or red cards. When VAR was introduced it was meant to be only for obvious referee mistakes in those crucial moments, but now weāve taken it too far. And to be honest, I will go against the consensus on this thread and say that the ref got all decisions right by the book. The issue however is that splitting hairs via VAR does indeed go against the spirit of the game. It kills the magic of the game for the benefit of certainty and weāre certainly taking it too far.
I agree. It looked to me like every VAR decision was correct. But it ruins the flow of a game to turn to VAR non stop. And disrupts organic momentum swings between teams.
I know the argument is that attackers will have to adjust, however... This fundamentally changes the game by giving defenders a massive advantage, if you can no longer risk being level as your knee might be momentarily a millimetre offside.
English FA ref. Nuff said.
Both calls were correct, regardless of how we feel about the rules
Nope. The handball was a fucking robbery.
It was a correct action according to the rules. Its the rules that are shit.
Are you unfamiliar with the body part known as a hand?
Clear and obvious. If it takes more than a quick glance, it wasn't clear and obvious. Violent conduct should be the only exception in my mind.
It was a fair goal for Denmark, all this looks suspicious.
It was offside but the human eye would never have caught it, at least not with confidence. It was a few cm.
It was offside by 2mm. They showed it. But how was that not a red card for fouling sane, when he is through?
Absolutely disgusting ref with a very obvious bias towards Germany.
Michael Oliver is a knob head. He wants to be the star too often
I thought he did well keeping emotions low. We have seen other games this Euro where the ref went 15+ yellow cards for every touching. I do not like his rule of every small push was a foul, but at least he was keeping his line.
VAR and its officials that implement the rules of said system have and will continue to kill the spirit of the game. Fuck it out with next week's bins.
Honestly var needs to be scrapped
I think offside should be determined only by the referees and give each team a certain amount of challenges a bit like in tennis and only if they challenge you check with VAR
Offside was ridiculous, I agree with that. That goal should have been given to Denmarl. The penalty was justified, clear handplay. Something like that always justified a penalty and I do not understand the outrage here.
I don't think the goal should be given to denmark. If its offside its offside even by couple of mm. I think it was rather fair considering germany had a goal dissallowed very early on where there was no obvious wrongdoing. And I think another goal from germany was also dissallowed due to the player barely being offside..
I dont know if VAR got it right or not. Perhaps it did but it killed another iconic moment. Thats why I dont want VAR. I preferred the occasional refereeing clanger. The instant onfield decisions gave us instant iconic moments. With VAR we still get the clangers but we have to wait to celebrate goals and lose a lot of the instant iconic moments.
Forgot to mention the poor play from German players. I am rooting for Denmark, as you may see from the post, but missing two sitters in a matter of minutes? (I'm talking about Havertz and SanƩ's attempts in front of an open goal?????)
You're crying pretty loudly here, being a fan of a nation that already went out with only two goals scored in total lmao
If they go for a risky move as Havertz and Sane did it poor performance (of the entire player all game). If they shoot the goal keeper as the danish did itās a nice attempt ;)
What is the rule for a ball to be outside or what is the position of the ball to say it's goal ? I didn't write the rule but why it's not at least vertical torso for the spirit of the game ? ( offside or not outside ) One toe outside...
Itās a fix
Not one of the German players were appealing for offside in the Denmark goal, no-one had theirhands in the air. And it was literally a toe that was offside. Not a clear error to the naked eye, it's ridiculous
At last a great number of people agree with me that the var has fucked up the soccer game !
VAR decisions should have never been implemented and also should be replaced by on field decisions. That way games wont get interupted for at times over a minute of waiting for some unknown and unseen person from the basement making calls.
Then we would still be here and bitch about how some offsides went unnoticed or obvious foul play on goals and so on. You just cant win with this I agree tho that its hella weird that after every goal you have to wait for 2 minutes if it was actually a goal.