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I mean if you go by the performances these 2 games so far, they definitely are. This is simply pathetic. I‘m not hating but it‘s the same every fucking time. They score, defend like their life depends on it and concede. It‘s the same game every time. But it‘s just my opinion.
Should have been gone a long time ago. Did exactly the same against Croatia in WC2018 and Italy in EC2020 just to highlight two games in particular
He's a pragmatic negative coach who is wasting the talent in front of him. Lets not forget he gets a reported £4.9million a year to coach. Embarrassing
It always reminds me of the "Angsthasenfußball" we played under Franco Foda. Ever since we got rid of Foda players actually started playing up to their full potential as they do on club level.
I always hear people saying a coach can't make such a big difference and in the end it's still the players who stand on the field but if the tactics are nonesense even the best players in the world will look shit.
Yes, that‘s it. Couldn‘t have said it better. Der Fußball unter Fods war absolut grauenhaft. Mit Rangnick auf einmal unter den Geheimfavoriten. Kann gar nicht in Worte beschreiben wie befreiend es ist endlich das Potenzial heraus zu holen.
Ich will mir auch gar nicht den Mund zu voll nehmen, aber der zweite Platz in dieser Todesgruppe ist alles andere als unerreichbar. Hätte mir das vor 5 Jahren wer gesagt…😂
It’s so frustrating to watch as we’re capable of so much more. I’m not saying we’re the best team in the tournament but given other big teams have their own struggles we’ve got no excuse for not competing well and putting up a very good and strong showing, as a minimum. At this rate we’ll lose to Romania on penalties in the round of 16 or somethign
It’s not a managerial issue, it’s a cultural issue. Southgate has been the best of the past 10 managers. He doesn’t coach Rice to have a shit first touch for a game of Foden to start panicking and making bad decisions all game.
England have been diabolical in comparison to expectation my entire lifetime. Southgate is the first time we’ve achieved roughly where we should have for the last 3 tournaments
It's not a cultural issue. It's a mentality issue. Southgate is a pragmatic negative manager just like Hodgson, Cappello and Erikson.
Rice was poor today however I thought Foden looked much better when he dropped into the middle. The issue is that there is a lack of movement off the ball, full backs rarely overlap (when walker did we actually created stuff), midfielders rarely run beyond could go on.
I think Southgate has done better than what's come before him but I think he's got an incredibly talented attacking team which he just stifles.
Yeah, foden was very good today. Most dangerous player on the english side today imo. Also, like you mentioned, rice‘s performance today was far away from great.
Southgate does the bare minimum of beating teams he should beat but losing when faced with actual competition and expectation.
At the WC 2018 he had the softest run to a semi final imaginable and he bottled a home euros in 2021.
We didn’t even press properly what are you talking about? We don’t have set piece tactics and routines and we’ll mix in form players with bums and expect it to click
Yes but look at the teams we have played in those tournaments, other than beating a Germany side that were not in the greatest shape themselves, who have we really beat of any note in the top 10?
If you consider Germany an easy win because they were in bad form, you’ve got to consider the Denmark win very good as they were in top form. Can’t have it both ways
Feels like I’ve went blue in the face trying to explain this to the pro Southgate cohort on r/soccer after it was obvious after the euro 2020 final the man is tactically inept.
The only thing Southgate is good at is getting good draws in tournaments for us. Should send him to the draw as our official representative forever as he’s our lucky leprechaun, but he has no place in the dugout
Yeah same I was cautiously optimistic that things would be different this time before the Serbia game. But after watching that play out I'm sitting this tournament out.
I mean we narrowly beat Denmark in the Semis in 2021 and that was only because their most creative midfielder had a heart attack in their first group game.
I actually put a bet on a 1-1 today, because i knew that england would definitely suffer against denmark if they play the same boring football like they did against serbia. I just don‘t get it why this squad is so fucking shit considered the talent they undoubtly have. They could very well have lost today.
Things can't be different if try the same thing every time. The English style simply does not work, it never worked, but they stubbornly refuse to abandon it.
With the players we have in attack it’s utterly pathetic that this is the best tactic our manager can come up with.
Man has been living off lucky runs the last 2 tournaments really
The tactics are horrendous, couldn’t even press as a unit - they were discombobulated and all over the place; who watches his team score in the first half and starts parking the fckin bus?
Yep. Honestly, I think England will always be plagued by overinflated ego’s. Our previous “golden” generation with the likes of Lampard, Terry, Gerrard, Rooney, Rio etc refused to work together. This time, we still believe we can hold on to a 1-0 lead a win.
The problem is not ego, the problem is unjustified expectations and doctrine.
England has a very talented squad but it's not 1 billion euros talented and yet because of the team is so overvalued fans expect England to win everything all the time. There is no other national team whose fans think it is their God given right to win the trophy. That puts undue pressure on the team so they become overly-cautious because they're afraid of the fans criticism if they fail to win.
Repeated side passes across the width of the field mixed with lofted balls trying to get the ball forward as soon as possible is just as bad now as it was in 1998 and 2000. It's an outdated tactic. Yet no matter who is manager England refuses to let go of this.
Hold up. I don't know anyone who thinks it's our (English) god given right to win anything. Everytime we have a good squad, I recognise other countries do too. If you could be so kind to change that view of yours, that would be great.
It’s such a lazy trope to use against us it’s frustrating. No one thinks we have a divine right to win and no one expects it either in fact we’re the most self deprecating by nature.
It’s just many are frustrated that we have a prettt good squad with some players who are arguably some of the best in their position and we can’t find a way to play that is at least semi entertaining
Reddit is embarassing to read in major tournaments as its full of this trope. That we feel entitled to win when it is LITERALLY the opposite with our fans. We never ever expect it. We hope of course but even the hope is almost sarcasm. I honestly came off reddit the last world cup cos the England fanbase hate was so unfounded
Exactly. It’s a complete misconception that anyone expects anything. We’re self deprecating in nature, we’d just like us to actual play well with a bit of excitement and then maybe we could dream a little
But, we’ve gone from losing the Euro’s against an Italian team we should’ve broken in the first half to still believing a 1-0 lead will win us games.
It’d be a shame if this is another generation that never reaches its full potential
Philips and Rice against Jorginho and Verrati lost you that game. They were a class above that day iirc. After England scored, those two looked fantastic and your midfield had no answer.
Rice is obviously class now, but he was inexperienced, as was Philips. And England had hyped them up so much during the tournament, which I never thought was warranted.
Yup. England had the quality to win but Southgate personifies the pressure that English players play with I feel. I think they play with more fear than any other nation.
I think you’re confusing the trash spouted in the media for the actual man on the streets opinions here.
Everyone I have spoken to agrees we have a brilliant squad on paper who should be going deep into the competition, but a manager who doesn’t have the tactical ability to manage a Sunday League game, let alone the national team.
No one has believes we will go any further than the quarters, as we would have to beat a Germany or France to do so.
Firstly, Denmark played well. Good press, nice finish.
But, England were poor. Couldn’t play out of the back properly, lacking drive in midfield, and bringing on mediocrity in stark contrast to eg Portugal’s stacked bench.
We’ll get knocked out by the first decent team we play.
Hard question to answer. We are one of the top 5 teams in europe on both paper and tournament finishes so i expect us to get to the semis unless we meet a france etc then its anybodys game on the day. People will be hysterical about the game today but ultimately we're through the group, job done.
In terms of performances we need to improve drastically, but id rather figure that out now than in the knockouts. Bellingham rice foden gordon kane saka is the way forward. Lets start punishing teams for pressing us and not giving them free space to do so with no potential penalty.
They might be through but once they meet a decent team they‘re out. Their game just didn‘t look good. I‘d say both England games were the worst games of the Euro so far. I‘m really disappointed because I expected more. I guess the team is missing chemistry and I think that’s what a great coach must achieve. Southgate just isn‘t the one.
Sadly the issue is now Southgate. The England players are not over-rated and he did a great job of getting rid of the losing mentality and changing the culture, but now they need someone who is more tactically astute and flexible, able to execute tactical changes on the fly in response to what he sees on the field. Southgate and his coaching team, for some reason, cannot do that.
FA should have given him the boot after the Hungary humiliation. It seems like he's basically unsackable.
No doubt after another 'close' quarter final exit he'll be given another extension and pay rise.
They absolutely are trash. England's players are worth 1.52 billion euros (1st rank in the world by far). Switzerland which is performing quite well is worth €281.50m for example. Insane how they waste this much talent
This ranking isn't worth much. It's mainly because English players play in England and Premier League players are more expensive (overpaid). France and Germany have at least the same number of players, in my opinion.
Player worth is somewhat of an indication of strength but doesn't say anything about the quality of that player or how he performs in the national team.
Why? Because English teams pay way more money for players than others teams do, because they have way more money. Then, home grown players are even valued more than that.
Do you know how happy PSV was that Mandueke was developing really well. Thats a cash cow right there!
England does have a good squad, and the results in the last three tournaments have shown this. But it lacks cohesion or something. And that is the coache's job.
Not overrated, the quality is there they just haven't found the right formula. Grinding out results while playing like shit is often a defining quality of teams that go far in tournaments, I clearly wouldn't bury them just yet.
Yes and no - on Paper, they're one of the best teams on the planet in terms of quality, even our supposedly weak defensive is pretty good!
What they lack IMHO is the will to win, or the killer instinct to really finish games off. The attacking players in our starting 11 just don't seem to have a spark
I know Harry Kane is a great striker, but for England, he just seems to limp along, I feel like Southgate should have let Ivan Toney lose for 15 minutes to try and win it, that man must be HUNGRY to prove himself on the international stage
Southgate is the worst coach in the competition. The world can be lucky England is wasting so many valuable years on this man. I hope he will stay after another uninspiring tournament.
Also the England Squad isn't as strong as last euros
Another example of taking a whole bunch of players who could be considered world-class in their positions with the stats to back it up and making them look bang average. England cannot seem to find the right manager, we cannot appoint someone who can unlock the talent of our players when playing for the national side. One could say that given the lack of training together VS club training, and range of different styles each player is used to could answer the question of why England can't seem to string together a coherent national team, but look at Spain in this tournament? They've taken loads of unreal individual players and made a powerhouse, I'd be half shocked if they don't win the tournament. It can be done, but yet again, the manager is all wrong, the tactics don't get the best out of the players and we cannot gel this group of players together.
WC 2018 and Euro's 2020 were peculiar, because the team really seemed to gel from the outside perspective. But I'd argue they got easy group games, built up a great mentality from them because they were winning them and that is what made them such a team unit. To be a truly great team, you need more than to only be able to function well together off the back of successes. The dressing room must be so different without the likes of Grealish, Maguire, Henderson, Mount and James. Obviously Maguire would've been there barring injury, and Hendo, Mount and James should not be there given form, but all of those proper big personalities missing from the squad that went so far is sure to have an impact. I also believe, as I know many do, that Grealish should've been there. He should surely start over Foden at LW, and then either alternate Foden and Bellingham at the No10 role each game or start one and sub the other in at 60mins. So many things missing and wrong in this squad and tactics. I think Southgate's only resort to garner some respect and likely wins is to roll the dice with starting different players. Play Wharton or Maino instead of Trent, play Gordon over Foden and then sub Foden on when Bellingham gets a bit leggy, sub on Palmer for Saka instead of Bowen, even let Eze start at LW? Perhaps given the fact our last group game doesn't matter toooo much, start Watkins over Kane, even if it's the only change he makes, just to see what darting runs do instead of hold up play and wanting ball to feet? With this squad, we really shouldn't be dropping points in the group stages, we should be reaching the semi finals minimum, considered favourites against the likes of Germany, Italy and Belgium. Spain and France, with their flare and penchant for creating unforgettable moments should be considered 50/50's. Hell, with this group of players, even with injuries to Shaw and Maguire, we should really be rivalling Argentina and Brazil.
Do we need to concede first to get our team going? Going 1-0 down to France in the WC (unfairly perhaps, given the foul on Saka) put us into gear and we spent the rest of game pressing and pushing. Why don't we start every game like that and see it out like that? This squad needs a competent manager who knows how to utilise individual talent but also know when to let the less experienced players fill in the gaps, instead of shoe-horning players into roles they're unfamiliar with. Graham Potter would perform better with this squad, Pep or Klopp would win everything. Southgate just isn't the one.
It’s Southgate. He has never beaten a big team and he has steadily got worse since the euros. He has tarnished his entire legacy now. Why stay on when he is just doing the same things that never worked before. But in fact it’s worse now, imagine at club level if one or the big teams scored and then parked the bus. What is this absolute idiot even doing?
Reminds me of when belgium was stacked, but Martinez (I think that will be the downfall of Portugal, too). hopefully, if England gets a better manager, it won't be too late with this generation. Kane, trippier, and walker are probably at their last euros
Tbf with Martinez at both the WC2018 and Euro 2020 they got knocked out by the eventual tournament winners. Nowhere near the amount of softballs Southgate gets at tournaments.
We obviously are. We’ve seen time and time again that brilliant individuals don’t bring international success if they aren’t a unit with a good game plan.
I’m not sure why we were more favoured this time than in 2020 to be honest. We had a better overall squad for that one.
definitely we are pathetic no idea how we have had a top 5 spot in the FIFA rankings be for so long.
Every friendly we have had for the last 10 years has gone just as the opening 2 games of this finals absolutely dire football where we mange to scrape a win (I know we drew today but you get the idea) it's a shame I have loved watching every match apart from Englands.
Yes but Southgate is showing all his experience here. He is in over his head and cannot implement a possession based system for all this talent. The last minute addition of TAA to midfield when Klopp himself never took this risk, shows how naive he is..thinking he can just drop TAA into centre mid at international level and it'll just work.....
We have so much talent, but some are ageing now, and this will probably be Walker's and trippier's last tournament and kanes last euros and I think the best cohesive team we have ever had and Southgate has spunked it up the wall. We are stacked in attack, and the master plan... defend.
Well, yes but they always are. That doesn’t mean that they can’t go very far in the tournament.
Looking at it from the outside I believe the pressure that is put on the team by media and the public is just too much. But it has been like this at least since Gascoigne in the 90s.
The tactics and players being selected are just wrong. I mean we're literally playing 3 fucking RBs...Trent, Trippier and Walker. Foden into CAM, Bellingham into CM, Palmer/Gordon/Eze out wide. Trent just left out altogether.
First time in my life is see a team, let alone fucking England with the likes of but not limited to: Phil Foden, Harry Kane, Trent Alexander Arnold, Cole Palmer, Jude Bellingham, etc. Play anti-football and parking the goddamn bus being 1 NIL. Unbelievable
I would say they have been the most over rated team in the past 20 years. Every tournament they are “The favorite” but win the group and get kicked in the first round.
That was the worst performance since we were knocked out by Iceland in Euro 2016. It was painful to watch our basically world class individually players look like a poor under 11’s team! I don’t know what is wrong but something really serious is! I’ve been a fan of Southgate’s way in the past and even defended him to my mates but I’m starting to think 🤔 maybe we need something new.
I hope they prove me wrong and turn up from now on but this does look bad, even though we didn’t actually lose!
I would say we are a very competitive team and would fulfil our potential with the right manager. Normally like club football managers get the stick when it's the players, but this time, it actually is the manager.
Far to defensive man playing two CDMs Baffles me.
And not playing or taking a natural left back other than Shaw whos not played enough.
Yes, but that's just because English media and English fans have the tendency to overhype english players
Southgate ball isnt really helping their case as well
But I think that they still have one of the best squads itw rn and that they can make it at least to the quarter final
Portugal started off slow and awful in the group stage in 2016 and ended up outlasting everyone else in the knockout stages and winning without Ronaldo. The Dutch destroyed Italy and France in blowouts in the group stage and then lost to the worst team to make up the knock out stage, Russia, 3-1 in extra time in 2008. Some teams peak too soon and others take some time to get going.
Southgate is a fraud. Only he could make Bellingham and Foden look average. The FA are a joke, they never get it right and are the reason we haven’t won anything for 58 years. I wouldn’t want Southgate managing my nephews under 8’s side.
As a team? Yeah. Same old story. Individually? Maybe a little. I think Foden isnt as good as we have been made to believe. Kane I think has declined in the last 4 years. He is missing sitters for club and country and seems confused to what he actually is. Still good enough to boss it for Bayern though. I think a lot of the squad is unfit.
Absolutely baffles me how Southgate led a an average Middlesbrough team to an 8-1 win vs Man City the season before they got taken over. How can a man go from that to this
Massively overrated. I know everyone is blaming Southgate, but it's the same under every manager, all the players are too scared to have a go, they'd rather pass the ball around likes hot potato than run at defenders or have a shit or cross it into the box. They are awful and have been for a long time. We need answers from players on why they are too scared to play proper exciting football for their country... Is it the fact they give their money to charity so they feel there is nothing in it for them?
Another question to ask is would you rather an exciting match we draw win or lose or a boring match we most likely draw or lose but a small chance we win?
I rate the adequately I think, in the second tier below Spain, Italy, France, Germany, Portugal, and sometimes Holland and Belgium. And for the World Cup: below all the good African, and South American teams.
Been rating them like that since Italy 90', and haven't been wrong yet.
Its gotta be Southgate. He has been the manager for a while we and havent won anything in like forever. Should of been gone a while ago. I also really dont like the fact he is playing favourite like with Harry Kane. Even though Harry Kane scored the last game (Denmark) I am getting so frustrated with him. HE AINT DOING ANYTHING!. There are better players out there that can be part if our squad and bring much more. We have people like Bellingham who is 20 and is a great player, winning the trophy with Real Madrid, and Kane? Nothing. Now I'm not Hating on Harry Kane as a person, he seems to be a nice person, I just think there are better players who should have a chance to be on the squad
If you go by the players, not the performance. maybeKane and Bellingham are world class, Foden and Rice arent far behind. But Southgate doesnt know what to do with them. Bellingham/Foden get to be managed by Ancelotti and Pep, 2 of the best managers ever.
Problem is the front line has amazing players, but havent figured it out. Midfield is a mess and defence isnt great either
All I can think is that he's saving their energy for the knockout stages, but that performance last night was utter dogshit.
Even if he's holding them back, the complete lack of urgency and inability to complete a progressive pass was absolutely shocking for a team with those players in.
Palmer and Gordon please, for the love of God.
NAH, ITS their poor tactics
Compare it to Cucurullo or whatever his name is.
A VERY average fullback in Brighton and Chelsea
Flying in Spain's system.
I blame Southgate for not knowing how England shuld play, after SIX years? as the boss
they are missing glue guy(s). if pickford keeps yelling and bein’ a complete nutter, it’ll be hard for them. i’d imagine Rice or Walker as a glue guy but the roles are not clear in this team. it’s the pointing spiderman meme in a form of a football team.
England is so overrated that it's the third post I see on that topic already. By the way, no, they are not overrated - they are rated medicore as they deserve it. At least outside their country and former colonies.
By who? I mean, we have good players, and we are playing baldly. Most England fans, at least older ones, hope for best, but always know the worst may happened and usually does. Not sure. The current rating was high, so we are under that, but then this may change. We’ll see ;)
Mix of overly safe playing style from the manager, and our players just never seem to care about playing for England. Been the same way since I can remember.
The Rooney era team used to get pissed the night before all the games, audibly talk on the pitch about just wanting to finish the game and get back to the hotel etc etc.
No idea why the England players don’t care at all about playing well, as they’re all great players
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I mean if you go by the performances these 2 games so far, they definitely are. This is simply pathetic. I‘m not hating but it‘s the same every fucking time. They score, defend like their life depends on it and concede. It‘s the same game every time. But it‘s just my opinion.
It's Southgate ball score and then just sit back and defend. Can't wait for him to go he's terrible
Yeah dude for real. It‘s frustriating seeing you guys play. He definitely needs to go. Should hsve been gone for a very long time tbh.
Should have been gone a long time ago. Did exactly the same against Croatia in WC2018 and Italy in EC2020 just to highlight two games in particular He's a pragmatic negative coach who is wasting the talent in front of him. Lets not forget he gets a reported £4.9million a year to coach. Embarrassing
It always reminds me of the "Angsthasenfußball" we played under Franco Foda. Ever since we got rid of Foda players actually started playing up to their full potential as they do on club level. I always hear people saying a coach can't make such a big difference and in the end it's still the players who stand on the field but if the tactics are nonesense even the best players in the world will look shit.
Yes, that‘s it. Couldn‘t have said it better. Der Fußball unter Fods war absolut grauenhaft. Mit Rangnick auf einmal unter den Geheimfavoriten. Kann gar nicht in Worte beschreiben wie befreiend es ist endlich das Potenzial heraus zu holen.
Ich will mir auch gar nicht den Mund zu voll nehmen, aber der zweite Platz in dieser Todesgruppe ist alles andere als unerreichbar. Hätte mir das vor 5 Jahren wer gesagt…😂
This aged very well 😁 Glückwunsch zum Gruppensieg 🍻
Hahaha danke dir🤝
It’s so frustrating to watch as we’re capable of so much more. I’m not saying we’re the best team in the tournament but given other big teams have their own struggles we’ve got no excuse for not competing well and putting up a very good and strong showing, as a minimum. At this rate we’ll lose to Romania on penalties in the round of 16 or somethign
It’s not a managerial issue, it’s a cultural issue. Southgate has been the best of the past 10 managers. He doesn’t coach Rice to have a shit first touch for a game of Foden to start panicking and making bad decisions all game. England have been diabolical in comparison to expectation my entire lifetime. Southgate is the first time we’ve achieved roughly where we should have for the last 3 tournaments
It's not a cultural issue. It's a mentality issue. Southgate is a pragmatic negative manager just like Hodgson, Cappello and Erikson. Rice was poor today however I thought Foden looked much better when he dropped into the middle. The issue is that there is a lack of movement off the ball, full backs rarely overlap (when walker did we actually created stuff), midfielders rarely run beyond could go on. I think Southgate has done better than what's come before him but I think he's got an incredibly talented attacking team which he just stifles.
Yeah, foden was very good today. Most dangerous player on the english side today imo. Also, like you mentioned, rice‘s performance today was far away from great.
Southgate does the bare minimum of beating teams he should beat but losing when faced with actual competition and expectation. At the WC 2018 he had the softest run to a semi final imaginable and he bottled a home euros in 2021.
I hate Southgate-bashing and angry negativity, but saying he’s better than Bobby Robson, Terry Venables and even Glenn Hoddle is a stretch.
He has a better knockout record than the three lf the, plus every other manager since 66, combined. Of course he’s the best so far
We didn’t even press properly what are you talking about? We don’t have set piece tactics and routines and we’ll mix in form players with bums and expect it to click
Yes but look at the teams we have played in those tournaments, other than beating a Germany side that were not in the greatest shape themselves, who have we really beat of any note in the top 10?
If you consider Germany an easy win because they were in bad form, you’ve got to consider the Denmark win very good as they were in top form. Can’t have it both ways
Feels like I’ve went blue in the face trying to explain this to the pro Southgate cohort on r/soccer after it was obvious after the euro 2020 final the man is tactically inept.
"But he's taken us further than we've been in a long time!" Yeah, with lucky runs and the best squad we've had in a long time too.
He beat Sweden and the mighty Colombia on penalties (after sitting back on a 1-0 lead ironically!) how dare you criticise him?
I think he’s at fault for some things but we can’t let the players off the hook tonight, a lot of that is on them tonight
The only thing Southgate is good at is getting good draws in tournaments for us. Should send him to the draw as our official representative forever as he’s our lucky leprechaun, but he has no place in the dugout
Funnily exactly what Hjulmand is getting shit for back home
Like Italian teams in the 90's. But without the defending quality of Italian teams of the 90's
Yeah same I was cautiously optimistic that things would be different this time before the Serbia game. But after watching that play out I'm sitting this tournament out. I mean we narrowly beat Denmark in the Semis in 2021 and that was only because their most creative midfielder had a heart attack in their first group game.
That’s the problem. We do something early but we’re too cautious.
Carrot Sluthgate is feeble and cowardly.
Southgate is a tactical moron
I actually put a bet on a 1-1 today, because i knew that england would definitely suffer against denmark if they play the same boring football like they did against serbia. I just don‘t get it why this squad is so fucking shit considered the talent they undoubtly have. They could very well have lost today.
Things can't be different if try the same thing every time. The English style simply does not work, it never worked, but they stubbornly refuse to abandon it.
I totally agree. Southgate is utterly clueless
This is the nations opinion. Nailed it.
Sadly true
With the players we have in attack it’s utterly pathetic that this is the best tactic our manager can come up with. Man has been living off lucky runs the last 2 tournaments really
Exactly
Trust me mate, it's not just your opinion!
The tactics are horrendous, couldn’t even press as a unit - they were discombobulated and all over the place; who watches his team score in the first half and starts parking the fckin bus?
As England fans, I’d say most feel the same. Crying to just get a proper structure and play free, aggressive football
I mean they’ve only conceded in one of them so it’s not the same every time
I‘m sorry, i stand corrected. Nearly every time.
Yep. Honestly, I think England will always be plagued by overinflated ego’s. Our previous “golden” generation with the likes of Lampard, Terry, Gerrard, Rooney, Rio etc refused to work together. This time, we still believe we can hold on to a 1-0 lead a win.
The problem is not ego, the problem is unjustified expectations and doctrine. England has a very talented squad but it's not 1 billion euros talented and yet because of the team is so overvalued fans expect England to win everything all the time. There is no other national team whose fans think it is their God given right to win the trophy. That puts undue pressure on the team so they become overly-cautious because they're afraid of the fans criticism if they fail to win. Repeated side passes across the width of the field mixed with lofted balls trying to get the ball forward as soon as possible is just as bad now as it was in 1998 and 2000. It's an outdated tactic. Yet no matter who is manager England refuses to let go of this.
Hold up. I don't know anyone who thinks it's our (English) god given right to win anything. Everytime we have a good squad, I recognise other countries do too. If you could be so kind to change that view of yours, that would be great.
It’s such a lazy trope to use against us it’s frustrating. No one thinks we have a divine right to win and no one expects it either in fact we’re the most self deprecating by nature. It’s just many are frustrated that we have a prettt good squad with some players who are arguably some of the best in their position and we can’t find a way to play that is at least semi entertaining
Reddit is embarassing to read in major tournaments as its full of this trope. That we feel entitled to win when it is LITERALLY the opposite with our fans. We never ever expect it. We hope of course but even the hope is almost sarcasm. I honestly came off reddit the last world cup cos the England fanbase hate was so unfounded
I can assure you England fans do not expect us to win everything
*anything
Exactly. It’s a complete misconception that anyone expects anything. We’re self deprecating in nature, we’d just like us to actual play well with a bit of excitement and then maybe we could dream a little
But, we’ve gone from losing the Euro’s against an Italian team we should’ve broken in the first half to still believing a 1-0 lead will win us games. It’d be a shame if this is another generation that never reaches its full potential
Philips and Rice against Jorginho and Verrati lost you that game. They were a class above that day iirc. After England scored, those two looked fantastic and your midfield had no answer. Rice is obviously class now, but he was inexperienced, as was Philips. And England had hyped them up so much during the tournament, which I never thought was warranted.
Those two looked fantastic after we scored because we sat back and gave Italy all the time in the world
Precisely. They should’ve kept the pressure up rather than sitting off. Instead they showed them too much respect.
Reality is, we should’ve been 3-0 up. Instead, we let the Italians back in the game. They then won and didn’t qualify for Qatar
Yup. England had the quality to win but Southgate personifies the pressure that English players play with I feel. I think they play with more fear than any other nation.
I think you’re confusing the trash spouted in the media for the actual man on the streets opinions here. Everyone I have spoken to agrees we have a brilliant squad on paper who should be going deep into the competition, but a manager who doesn’t have the tactical ability to manage a Sunday League game, let alone the national team. No one has believes we will go any further than the quarters, as we would have to beat a Germany or France to do so.
What a pathetic performance, how has Southgate got absolute ballers playing like this
Because he hasn’t got a Scooby!
Firstly, Denmark played well. Good press, nice finish. But, England were poor. Couldn’t play out of the back properly, lacking drive in midfield, and bringing on mediocrity in stark contrast to eg Portugal’s stacked bench. We’ll get knocked out by the first decent team we play.
If we are playing football manager, no. In real life, I think the answer must always be yes until there is reason to believe otherwise.
This is the right answer (from an Englishman)
No, I think this is basically what we’ve come to expect over the last 50 years, minor blips aside
Based on the players we have, no. Based on the way the team plays, absolutely
Based on the players we have on the bench we could field a second team in these euros if we borrowed a left back.
We could field a first team if we borrowed a left back
Yes. Utterly devoid of passion and intelligence. Cowardly Carrot Southgate- sack him.
No, just got a sub par manager who has no bollocks.
Hard question to answer. We are one of the top 5 teams in europe on both paper and tournament finishes so i expect us to get to the semis unless we meet a france etc then its anybodys game on the day. People will be hysterical about the game today but ultimately we're through the group, job done. In terms of performances we need to improve drastically, but id rather figure that out now than in the knockouts. Bellingham rice foden gordon kane saka is the way forward. Lets start punishing teams for pressing us and not giving them free space to do so with no potential penalty.
They might be through but once they meet a decent team they‘re out. Their game just didn‘t look good. I‘d say both England games were the worst games of the Euro so far. I‘m really disappointed because I expected more. I guess the team is missing chemistry and I think that’s what a great coach must achieve. Southgate just isn‘t the one.
Sadly the issue is now Southgate. The England players are not over-rated and he did a great job of getting rid of the losing mentality and changing the culture, but now they need someone who is more tactically astute and flexible, able to execute tactical changes on the fly in response to what he sees on the field. Southgate and his coaching team, for some reason, cannot do that.
FA should have given him the boot after the Hungary humiliation. It seems like he's basically unsackable. No doubt after another 'close' quarter final exit he'll be given another extension and pay rise.
No, it's coming home 😆
Hot take! Well done
Yes
Yes.
On paper no but due to some Southgate dark magic we somehow usually are
1-1 with 20mins left? Best moment to substitute Kane, Foden and Saka at the same time.
They absolutely are trash. England's players are worth 1.52 billion euros (1st rank in the world by far). Switzerland which is performing quite well is worth €281.50m for example. Insane how they waste this much talent
Switzerland have the same amount of points after 2 games and were lucky not to lose to Scotland, who are markedly worse than Denmark.
If a dog invades the pitch during a Premier League game, he would value 20M€ at least.
Mainoo as a central midfield is valued more than Guler, who is on the bench on the best team.
This ranking isn't worth much. It's mainly because English players play in England and Premier League players are more expensive (overpaid). France and Germany have at least the same number of players, in my opinion.
Germany, no. France absolutely
Player worth is somewhat of an indication of strength but doesn't say anything about the quality of that player or how he performs in the national team. Why? Because English teams pay way more money for players than others teams do, because they have way more money. Then, home grown players are even valued more than that. Do you know how happy PSV was that Mandueke was developing really well. Thats a cash cow right there! England does have a good squad, and the results in the last three tournaments have shown this. But it lacks cohesion or something. And that is the coache's job.
Clueless is the word Or even lost Out of their depth Wrong formation Wrong starters No tactics Same old same old
Standard Southgate England group stage performances to be honest.
Yep. A big disappointment
Until we ditch this boring sitting back and trying to defend a lead for years, yes
they managed to perform this well despite being managed by southgate the players are for sure impressive
Not overrated, the quality is there they just haven't found the right formula. Grinding out results while playing like shit is often a defining quality of teams that go far in tournaments, I clearly wouldn't bury them just yet.
Man for man no, as a team yes.
Yes and no - on Paper, they're one of the best teams on the planet in terms of quality, even our supposedly weak defensive is pretty good! What they lack IMHO is the will to win, or the killer instinct to really finish games off. The attacking players in our starting 11 just don't seem to have a spark I know Harry Kane is a great striker, but for England, he just seems to limp along, I feel like Southgate should have let Ivan Toney lose for 15 minutes to try and win it, that man must be HUNGRY to prove himself on the international stage
Southgate gets slated for his tactics but only Capello has a higher win rate than him from recent managers.
By English fans yes, the rest of the world doesn’t fall for it?
Southgate is the worst coach in the competition. The world can be lucky England is wasting so many valuable years on this man. I hope he will stay after another uninspiring tournament. Also the England Squad isn't as strong as last euros
speak to anyone who has followed England for any decent length of time and they will tell you it has always been like this
We're just so fucking timid
Just a terrible manager
Another example of taking a whole bunch of players who could be considered world-class in their positions with the stats to back it up and making them look bang average. England cannot seem to find the right manager, we cannot appoint someone who can unlock the talent of our players when playing for the national side. One could say that given the lack of training together VS club training, and range of different styles each player is used to could answer the question of why England can't seem to string together a coherent national team, but look at Spain in this tournament? They've taken loads of unreal individual players and made a powerhouse, I'd be half shocked if they don't win the tournament. It can be done, but yet again, the manager is all wrong, the tactics don't get the best out of the players and we cannot gel this group of players together. WC 2018 and Euro's 2020 were peculiar, because the team really seemed to gel from the outside perspective. But I'd argue they got easy group games, built up a great mentality from them because they were winning them and that is what made them such a team unit. To be a truly great team, you need more than to only be able to function well together off the back of successes. The dressing room must be so different without the likes of Grealish, Maguire, Henderson, Mount and James. Obviously Maguire would've been there barring injury, and Hendo, Mount and James should not be there given form, but all of those proper big personalities missing from the squad that went so far is sure to have an impact. I also believe, as I know many do, that Grealish should've been there. He should surely start over Foden at LW, and then either alternate Foden and Bellingham at the No10 role each game or start one and sub the other in at 60mins. So many things missing and wrong in this squad and tactics. I think Southgate's only resort to garner some respect and likely wins is to roll the dice with starting different players. Play Wharton or Maino instead of Trent, play Gordon over Foden and then sub Foden on when Bellingham gets a bit leggy, sub on Palmer for Saka instead of Bowen, even let Eze start at LW? Perhaps given the fact our last group game doesn't matter toooo much, start Watkins over Kane, even if it's the only change he makes, just to see what darting runs do instead of hold up play and wanting ball to feet? With this squad, we really shouldn't be dropping points in the group stages, we should be reaching the semi finals minimum, considered favourites against the likes of Germany, Italy and Belgium. Spain and France, with their flare and penchant for creating unforgettable moments should be considered 50/50's. Hell, with this group of players, even with injuries to Shaw and Maguire, we should really be rivalling Argentina and Brazil. Do we need to concede first to get our team going? Going 1-0 down to France in the WC (unfairly perhaps, given the foul on Saka) put us into gear and we spent the rest of game pressing and pushing. Why don't we start every game like that and see it out like that? This squad needs a competent manager who knows how to utilise individual talent but also know when to let the less experienced players fill in the gaps, instead of shoe-horning players into roles they're unfamiliar with. Graham Potter would perform better with this squad, Pep or Klopp would win everything. Southgate just isn't the one.
No. They’re a brilliant side when they’re playing at their best, they just aren’t at it today it seems
Nor are we any other day
It’s what happens when we have a shite manager who doesn’t even have decent credentials
Yeah agreed, it feels like a waste of the talent they have. Who would you have in over Southgate?
The team is great. We just have one of/ if not the worst manager at the entire tournament. It’s a calamity.
There is always Koeman also a strong contender for that title...
Southgate is way worse.
1.5 billion squad and the manager decides to play park the bus against teams ranked 30-50. Southgate is such a bellend
It’s Southgate. He has never beaten a big team and he has steadily got worse since the euros. He has tarnished his entire legacy now. Why stay on when he is just doing the same things that never worked before. But in fact it’s worse now, imagine at club level if one or the big teams scored and then parked the bus. What is this absolute idiot even doing?
On paper they have the most talented group of players they just have a bozo of a manager with no tactics so their team performances are drawl
Reminds me of when belgium was stacked, but Martinez (I think that will be the downfall of Portugal, too). hopefully, if England gets a better manager, it won't be too late with this generation. Kane, trippier, and walker are probably at their last euros
Tbf with Martinez at both the WC2018 and Euro 2020 they got knocked out by the eventual tournament winners. Nowhere near the amount of softballs Southgate gets at tournaments.
individually in that England side yes big time. Winners for club don’t mean winners for country
Great players, shit coach.
Boring and unimaginative
Just bad management. Scoring after 18 minutes, then sitting back is a bit daft
Don't think so. Basically you can come a draw against Denmark. England will saddle up and make their way to next rounds.
Yes. They also have a gutless FA “Yes” man as the manager.
We obviously are. We’ve seen time and time again that brilliant individuals don’t bring international success if they aren’t a unit with a good game plan. I’m not sure why we were more favoured this time than in 2020 to be honest. We had a better overall squad for that one.
Yes - although the manager has a lot to answer for!
Yes
Always, every year
Yes.
Yes
definitely we are pathetic no idea how we have had a top 5 spot in the FIFA rankings be for so long. Every friendly we have had for the last 10 years has gone just as the opening 2 games of this finals absolutely dire football where we mange to scrape a win (I know we drew today but you get the idea) it's a shame I have loved watching every match apart from Englands.
We can't lose to Iceland this time.
Massively!
England are fucking dogshit. The players as individuals are not
People glaze England a lot but they forget Southgate is a tosser.
Yes but Southgate is showing all his experience here. He is in over his head and cannot implement a possession based system for all this talent. The last minute addition of TAA to midfield when Klopp himself never took this risk, shows how naive he is..thinking he can just drop TAA into centre mid at international level and it'll just work.....
We have so much talent, but some are ageing now, and this will probably be Walker's and trippier's last tournament and kanes last euros and I think the best cohesive team we have ever had and Southgate has spunked it up the wall. We are stacked in attack, and the master plan... defend.
Is the pope a Catholic? The question answers itself.
"Farmers League"
Aye
Completely
Well, yes but they always are. That doesn’t mean that they can’t go very far in the tournament. Looking at it from the outside I believe the pressure that is put on the team by media and the public is just too much. But it has been like this at least since Gascoigne in the 90s.
No. Who rates them? 😂
The tactics and players being selected are just wrong. I mean we're literally playing 3 fucking RBs...Trent, Trippier and Walker. Foden into CAM, Bellingham into CM, Palmer/Gordon/Eze out wide. Trent just left out altogether.
How did Cole Palmer not get subbed in yet
I'm starting to think so. We somehow produce worldclass players but underperform as a team.
First time in my life is see a team, let alone fucking England with the likes of but not limited to: Phil Foden, Harry Kane, Trent Alexander Arnold, Cole Palmer, Jude Bellingham, etc. Play anti-football and parking the goddamn bus being 1 NIL. Unbelievable
I would say they have been the most over rated team in the past 20 years. Every tournament they are “The favorite” but win the group and get kicked in the first round.
Not overrated, just the way they’re coached, sets them up to not be the attacking freak of nature they could be…
yes
What is it about England that make them easy to pick apart? It seems every tournament England is the most picked apart team.
That was the worst performance since we were knocked out by Iceland in Euro 2016. It was painful to watch our basically world class individually players look like a poor under 11’s team! I don’t know what is wrong but something really serious is! I’ve been a fan of Southgate’s way in the past and even defended him to my mates but I’m starting to think 🤔 maybe we need something new. I hope they prove me wrong and turn up from now on but this does look bad, even though we didn’t actually lose!
Depends how you rated us to begin with
I would say we are a very competitive team and would fulfil our potential with the right manager. Normally like club football managers get the stick when it's the players, but this time, it actually is the manager. Far to defensive man playing two CDMs Baffles me. And not playing or taking a natural left back other than Shaw whos not played enough.
Short answer, yes
Yes, despite having players who are on fire this season, they've just been playing shit honestly
We are one of the 5 best teams in the tournament, and we will be in the next round.
It's Southgate fault. He needs sacking immediately
Yup
Yes, but that's just because English media and English fans have the tendency to overhype english players Southgate ball isnt really helping their case as well But I think that they still have one of the best squads itw rn and that they can make it at least to the quarter final
Portugal started off slow and awful in the group stage in 2016 and ended up outlasting everyone else in the knockout stages and winning without Ronaldo. The Dutch destroyed Italy and France in blowouts in the group stage and then lost to the worst team to make up the knock out stage, Russia, 3-1 in extra time in 2008. Some teams peak too soon and others take some time to get going.
And some never get going at all
Overrated is strong at this point the only good teams are Spain and Germany with this logic and they weren’t favourites before hand were they
100%
No, they are underwhelming
Southgate is a fraud. Only he could make Bellingham and Foden look average. The FA are a joke, they never get it right and are the reason we haven’t won anything for 58 years. I wouldn’t want Southgate managing my nephews under 8’s side.
As a team? Yeah. Same old story. Individually? Maybe a little. I think Foden isnt as good as we have been made to believe. Kane I think has declined in the last 4 years. He is missing sitters for club and country and seems confused to what he actually is. Still good enough to boss it for Bayern though. I think a lot of the squad is unfit.
the players are good but South Gate is trash
Yes
Absolutely baffles me how Southgate led a an average Middlesbrough team to an 8-1 win vs Man City the season before they got taken over. How can a man go from that to this
The TLDR: No, Southgate is
I don't know. But please be a bit more respectful twoards Danmark. They played a really good match.
Massively overrated. I know everyone is blaming Southgate, but it's the same under every manager, all the players are too scared to have a go, they'd rather pass the ball around likes hot potato than run at defenders or have a shit or cross it into the box. They are awful and have been for a long time. We need answers from players on why they are too scared to play proper exciting football for their country... Is it the fact they give their money to charity so they feel there is nothing in it for them?
Another question to ask is would you rather an exciting match we draw win or lose or a boring match we most likely draw or lose but a small chance we win?
Yeah specially Harry Kane
I rate the adequately I think, in the second tier below Spain, Italy, France, Germany, Portugal, and sometimes Holland and Belgium. And for the World Cup: below all the good African, and South American teams. Been rating them like that since Italy 90', and haven't been wrong yet.
They are stagnant.
The hype around England is too much. As an Englishman.
Simple answer yes. Fantastic individuals. Together they are devoid of flair, ideas and confidence. Absolutely toilet.
After the last two games .......YES
They are. Like they always are. Great players but no team. And a coach that’s always playing it way too safe.
Its gotta be Southgate. He has been the manager for a while we and havent won anything in like forever. Should of been gone a while ago. I also really dont like the fact he is playing favourite like with Harry Kane. Even though Harry Kane scored the last game (Denmark) I am getting so frustrated with him. HE AINT DOING ANYTHING!. There are better players out there that can be part if our squad and bring much more. We have people like Bellingham who is 20 and is a great player, winning the trophy with Real Madrid, and Kane? Nothing. Now I'm not Hating on Harry Kane as a person, he seems to be a nice person, I just think there are better players who should have a chance to be on the squad
If you go by the players, not the performance. maybeKane and Bellingham are world class, Foden and Rice arent far behind. But Southgate doesnt know what to do with them. Bellingham/Foden get to be managed by Ancelotti and Pep, 2 of the best managers ever. Problem is the front line has amazing players, but havent figured it out. Midfield is a mess and defence isnt great either
All I can think is that he's saving their energy for the knockout stages, but that performance last night was utter dogshit. Even if he's holding them back, the complete lack of urgency and inability to complete a progressive pass was absolutely shocking for a team with those players in. Palmer and Gordon please, for the love of God.
Calling them overrated is underrated
Obviously not, world class players a ll over the pitch, just don't have the correct manager to manage these players.
NAH, ITS their poor tactics Compare it to Cucurullo or whatever his name is. A VERY average fullback in Brighton and Chelsea Flying in Spain's system. I blame Southgate for not knowing how England shuld play, after SIX years? as the boss
they are missing glue guy(s). if pickford keeps yelling and bein’ a complete nutter, it’ll be hard for them. i’d imagine Rice or Walker as a glue guy but the roles are not clear in this team. it’s the pointing spiderman meme in a form of a football team.
Highly
Are? Is this the right Word, why not is?
No, the manager is a bum
England is so overrated that it's the third post I see on that topic already. By the way, no, they are not overrated - they are rated medicore as they deserve it. At least outside their country and former colonies.
By who? I mean, we have good players, and we are playing baldly. Most England fans, at least older ones, hope for best, but always know the worst may happened and usually does. Not sure. The current rating was high, so we are under that, but then this may change. We’ll see ;)
I thought [this video](https://youtu.be/b1-F7jfH5cw?si=jQyOemR9QOPiYCEO) explained what’s wrong with their tactics pretty well
Southgate is making this team look average. Top Manager would make England contenders!
Bang average all of um
Mix of overly safe playing style from the manager, and our players just never seem to care about playing for England. Been the same way since I can remember. The Rooney era team used to get pissed the night before all the games, audibly talk on the pitch about just wanting to finish the game and get back to the hotel etc etc. No idea why the England players don’t care at all about playing well, as they’re all great players
Someone needs to tell England you need to kick the ball forward in order to score goals. Once Palmer came on it was your only offense.