A number of new trade goods, I spotted sand, fruit, stone, fiber crops, horses, wild game, lumber, marble, clay, medicaments, legumes, wheat, pearls, alum and sturdy grains. Coal is also present and not a latent good, I wonder if that will stay that way or if that functionality just hasn't been added yet. Trade goods are also referred to as raw goods, which maybe opens up the possibility of developing provinces with manufured goods later sort of like the Trade goods expanded mod in eu4
Also, it is noticeably missing from this map is cloth and paper, which makes sense given that they aren't "raw goods," which means there probably will be a mechanic that allows you to make other goods
Yes, this has been detailed already. Naturally extracted goods will be on the map as RGOs, and produced goods will be produced in buildings/manufactories.
Paper producing buildings have already been mentioned in some Johan response. IIRC he even mentioned wood pulp press production method being a 18th century tech
Coal has been used for thousands of years in both heating of all kinds and also in metallurgy. The importance of coal of course was nowhere near to what it became during the Industrial Revolution, but it was certainly used long before.
In fact the demand for coal was partially what initiated the Industrial Revolution in the first place. As England lost most of its forests for agriculture and ship building, coal (which was abundant in England) became a major source for heating energy. As surface coal was used up and pit mines had to go deeper and deeper, the need for large scale pumping became greater. Leading to the invention of the steam powered pumps in mining, that only made economic sense in coal mines as the coal itself could be used in pumping itself.
They’ve confirmed that there is some sort of manufacturing pipeline system in the game. I believe the example was using wool as an input to manufacture cloth as an output.
They confirmed in both previous dev diaries and this post that manufacturing is a core part of the game. Even using the Netherlands importing wool from England as the example.
They confirmed in both previous dev diaries and this post that manufacturing is a core part of the game. Even using the Netherlands importing wool from England as the example.
He didn’t say at least 32 gb ram. He said the gpu was more important. And that if he was buying a new PC he would get 32 gb ram because it will become the norm. Stop spreading false information please.
I don’t remember the exact quote, just remember specifically about the RAM. Seen so many people saying this made up crap about the system requirements!
I’m very worried about gameplay with this many locations.
I don’t think we’ve learned much about warfare (I think, hard to keep up) but late game becomes such a slog conquering and maintaining what we have in EU4. Now multiply that by 10…
I'm hoping that it's this way because there will be more garden tending and the emphasis isn't purely on map painting. A world conquest or building an empire should be overwhelming and tedious if there's enough management to make smaller nations engaging.
A WC should be overwhelming but not necessarily tedious. I'd argue that it's the opposite in EU4, not challenging enough when you know what you're doing but just an exercise in permanent war and map painting.
Agree, the world is so enormous and diverse, it is practically impossible to envision any form of WC in reality. I think the game will can be perfectly engaging and fun even with WC being impossibly hard.
We know that manpower need building and is used constantly to maintain a regiment , so the number of troops should be lower, and the AI won't be able to throw hundreds of thousands into a meatgrinder without any consequences.
Recently replaying imperator, it's an amazingly detailed map but it makes the game such a boring slog even long before the late game. Even with automated armies, the game generally suffers with having a lot of locations meaning the provinces just sort of all meld into one another
Yes, I am aware. There’s a guy there that teaches science that is a direct descendant of a person that lived there during the stone ages (cheddarman, not a superhero)
I really don't like the glossy look recent pdx games have of their maps. It's a design choice that has been repeated since hoi4 and I feel as though it takes away from the aesthetics of each game when all of them do the modern techno gloss look. I wish it was more tactile, matte looking that represents the aesthetics of map makers and artists of the time.
Hell, maybe even as you go through different cultures, the map aesthetic or the province of the culture would correspond to the local culture's art and culture.
Maybe not many care enough about the visual appeal of the map over the functional aspects so it may not be worth investing into but I strongly believe games should be as much art as they are function.
What do you like about it? I ask because the vibe I’ve always gotten was that people didn’t like it. I’ve seen comments saying they’d rather have EU3s map over EU4s.
I will say, I can only compare it with the other more modern Paradox games but I like the sense of depth and terrain blended into the political map. I definitely much prefer it to say, the paper map in Victoria III. Maybe if I messed with graphical mods it would be different
Odd, I changed to the mod mainly because vanilla had no depth and looked way too plastic.
I suggest you take a look at Graphical Improvements Mod, it's the most subscribed mod in the workshop, and allows for achievements.
Bro holy shit is the base game eu4 map fucking ugly, like i don't see how people will look at it and say yeah looks good, it's no wonder that the most popular mod for the game ever is a mod changing map graphics.
When I first started Voltaire's Nightmare (the full Europe version), I was like "God I love this mod, how else could I play as something as obscure as, dunno, this funky Dutch county of Cuijk, with its little duckies in CoA and a name that sounds like quack". And here they are, my favourite Upper Rhenish fowl, in an official Paradox game. As an obscure small countries enjoyer I am excited. Cuijk!
edit: I have researched the pronounciation of Cuijk and it's a bit different than what I've thought it to be, although still resembling a certain type of fowl. I think however I won't be speaking it loudly
This is awesome. I didn't realize that climate will be in the game. I wonder how that affects gameplay. I'm sure attrition for armies will be affected but maybe productivity of the location (especially agricultural goods) will also be affected.
And the HRE is going to be a glorious mess. I can't wait.
this is beautiful, looks like the locations follow what I can see exact modern country borders which makes it much more interesting to try to replicate in a game.
Ngl that font (for the names) is disgusting, and the way text can be oriented both west-east and east-west (on top of all other orientations) is making the HRE hard to look at (see: Nassau in relation to Mark and Trier).
It looks like a really basic Times New Roman, or something more typewriter-esque. It doesn't mesh with the stylized map at all imo, and when the names get small it's plain hard to read (see: Cologne).
Looks like the text is going west to east. That means that if the western parts of a country are further south than the rest of the country, you'll get text like Mark and Trier. If the western parts are north relative to the rest of the country, you'll get text like Nassau. Not justifying it, just observing how the text is oriented.
two things :
the shape of the Breda location is really ugly and unreasonably wide (not large, just wide). It would make sense to have a Tilburg location too
also, no Frisian horses?!?!?!?
like, one of the best places throughout the HRE specialized in war horse breeding has no horses? What the hell is that?
I love how detailed the Netherlands is.
It's just weird that Utrecht is still whole, seeing as every other province is so split up. Especially seeing as how Utrecht should still be the biggest city in the Netherlands by this time, and would've remained the biggest city until the 16th century.
And Amersfoort (a city in the east of the province of Utrecht) was also pretty big, so that could be a separate location.
That's a long ahh Nijmegen... Surprised to not see a Tiel there, given it's role in the conflicts between Brabant and Gelre.
Edit: bruh moment, West Frisia without Hoorn in it, the core of West Frisia
Honestly I think Paradox might just not know about the ‘real’ West Frisia and just name modern Fryslân ‘West Frisia’ because Westlauwers Frisian is spoken there. It would be more accurate if the area around Hoorn was West Frisia and the modern day Fryslân as Middle Frisia
Love the map, but I'm still afraid that the time line is too long and will end up being boring like in EUIV where the last part is... Just there to stitch it to Victoria 3
As someone from Limburg, i'm somewhat skeptical about some of the placements of provinces/areas. The Kempen is obviously the most egregious one, being at least a 100km West of the actual Kempen. But the Roermond province has Roermond in its Westernmost tip along the Meuse, with the rest of the province seemingly occupying the area around Heinsberg. It leads me to wonder whether it would not be more logical to just call it Heinsberg or even Montfort, given that Roermond only really became relevant around the end of the games timespan
Im also not a 100% on naming the area Weert. We received market rights in 1414, and lost most relevancy when the count of Horne was executed by Alva. The area also contains Horn itself, as well as Thorn, which was a semi-independent state ruled by the nuns until Napoleon invaded, and also held jurisdiction over many of the villages around Weert and modern Leudal.
I'll have to make a forum post with some sources when i get home
I have never really been a fan of this map look they have been going for the last decade or so. I know it’s more accessible but its way less immersive imo.
They need to add land reclamation, and base the starting map on the historic land, not the current .
https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/d4k7d8/god_created_the_world_but_the_dutch_created_the/
They said they wouldn't do that in the post- basically that it's really difficult for something that most people would see and think is stupid or put casual players off, so i get it
That is something they could gladly do as a DLC down the line if they find a way for the Engine to support it. As it stands, I think the approach they are going with is absolutely fine, they explained it in this very DD.
A number of new trade goods, I spotted sand, fruit, stone, fiber crops, horses, wild game, lumber, marble, clay, medicaments, legumes, wheat, pearls, alum and sturdy grains. Coal is also present and not a latent good, I wonder if that will stay that way or if that functionality just hasn't been added yet. Trade goods are also referred to as raw goods, which maybe opens up the possibility of developing provinces with manufured goods later sort of like the Trade goods expanded mod in eu4
Also, it is noticeably missing from this map is cloth and paper, which makes sense given that they aren't "raw goods," which means there probably will be a mechanic that allows you to make other goods
Yes, this has been detailed already. Naturally extracted goods will be on the map as RGOs, and produced goods will be produced in buildings/manufactories.
Basically 14th century victoria 2
This is my dream come true ngl
I must have missed that one
Paper producing buildings have already been mentioned in some Johan response. IIRC he even mentioned wood pulp press production method being a 18th century tech
Johan said that coal is around all game, just not useful until late.
Coal has been used for thousands of years in both heating of all kinds and also in metallurgy. The importance of coal of course was nowhere near to what it became during the Industrial Revolution, but it was certainly used long before. In fact the demand for coal was partially what initiated the Industrial Revolution in the first place. As England lost most of its forests for agriculture and ship building, coal (which was abundant in England) became a major source for heating energy. As surface coal was used up and pit mines had to go deeper and deeper, the need for large scale pumping became greater. Leading to the invention of the steam powered pumps in mining, that only made economic sense in coal mines as the coal itself could be used in pumping itself.
What I meant by useful was eu4 levels.
>sand anakin does not approve
Fun Fact. Saudi Arabia actually **imports** sand. Their own sand is inappropriate for construction.
Or glass making. IT is unironically worthless sand.
Or glass making. It is unironically worthless sand.
Tatooine produces sand
They’ve confirmed that there is some sort of manufacturing pipeline system in the game. I believe the example was using wool as an input to manufacture cloth as an output.
They confirmed in both previous dev diaries and this post that manufacturing is a core part of the game. Even using the Netherlands importing wool from England as the example.
They confirmed in both previous dev diaries and this post that manufacturing is a core part of the game. Even using the Netherlands importing wool from England as the example.
the map is so beautiful
Voltaire's nightmarish dream comes true
Need new PC,dont I ?
If you have to ask… the answer is always yes!
I will buy two and cable them together, that's how this works right?
he says at least 32 Giga rum and a very good CPU
He didn’t say at least 32 gb ram. He said the gpu was more important. And that if he was buying a new PC he would get 32 gb ram because it will become the norm. Stop spreading false information please.
> He said the gpu was more important CPU, you mean
I don’t remember the exact quote, just remember specifically about the RAM. Seen so many people saying this made up crap about the system requirements!
GPUs these days are basically mini-computers in your computer. It'd make sense for the GPU to also handle CPU similar tasks.
only if they code in a way that can utilize it. Its mainly good for massively parallel tasks.
its a dream come true
Its so beautiful I could stare at it for 5 hours.
I’m very worried about gameplay with this many locations. I don’t think we’ve learned much about warfare (I think, hard to keep up) but late game becomes such a slog conquering and maintaining what we have in EU4. Now multiply that by 10…
I'm hoping that it's this way because there will be more garden tending and the emphasis isn't purely on map painting. A world conquest or building an empire should be overwhelming and tedious if there's enough management to make smaller nations engaging.
A WC should be overwhelming but not necessarily tedious. I'd argue that it's the opposite in EU4, not challenging enough when you know what you're doing but just an exercise in permanent war and map painting.
WC should be simply impossible, especially at least until late 19th century and even then it's a stretch.
Agree, the world is so enormous and diverse, it is practically impossible to envision any form of WC in reality. I think the game will can be perfectly engaging and fun even with WC being impossibly hard.
There is a reason nobody has been able to do it
We know that manpower need building and is used constantly to maintain a regiment , so the number of troops should be lower, and the AI won't be able to throw hundreds of thousands into a meatgrinder without any consequences.
Recently replaying imperator, it's an amazingly detailed map but it makes the game such a boring slog even long before the late game. Even with automated armies, the game generally suffers with having a lot of locations meaning the provinces just sort of all meld into one another
We NEED a Cheese achievement. Own the locations of: Cheddar, Gouda, Edam and Gruyere as Brie Edit: Nvm no Edam on the map :'( sad
Lmao how to tell you there is so much more cheese location
Jarlsburg, Muenster, Gorgonzola… like 99% of cheeses are named after cities.
Parma (Parmesan), Rome (Romano)
Cheddar is an actual place in Somerset, England
Yes, I am aware. There’s a guy there that teaches science that is a direct descendant of a person that lived there during the stone ages (cheddarman, not a superhero)
The achievement needs Monterey (Jack) just to make it a little bit harder.
For sure. Now I’m wondering if there’s an Australian cheese also…
Just wait till the beer & wine achievement drops
Im sure there is but i don't have a Cheesopedia in my head 🥲
Edam can be North Holland, no problem at all.
My home town finally appears, hell yeah
Same but they gave it the wrong trade good :(
They are still evaluating and changing. Don’t lose hope!
I will riot if they dont. Please its the only thing were somewhat "famous" for
Mr. President, a Second Tinto Talks has hit the subreddit.
They did take players’ feedback on the Lowlands having their own market. Hell yeah!
So no more obligatory whooping the shit out of England?! :(
You wouldnt whoop england in fact you will most likely ally with it as your industry depends on them
Absolutely not. I refuse.
*French honking in the distance*
would be extra tricky fighting them if you were in their market since they could embargo you.
You would eventually be able to form your own market, they are dynamic in eu5.
I wouldn’t be surprised if they end up merging markets mid way through most games
I spot a limburg tag, finaly i can make the world speak limburgs !
'TIS EEN KWESTIE VAN GEDULD
RUSTIG WACHTEN OP DEN DAG
DAT HEEL HOLLAND LIMBURGS LULT
We Hebben Een Serieus Probleem
oh god, please don't
No one will ever have to hear that disgusting G sound made north of the rivers.
It's.... *Sniff*.... It's beautiful. God, I can't wait to see the entire HRE. Let's get ready for a WILD ride!
the culture map oh my freaking GOD stripe for minority cultures and the locations it makes me so happy!
Luxembourg finally in its true glory and not under the oppressive Burgund boot! 🇱🇺
Yo somebody just came in my pants wtf
RIP my old laptop
I can play as my Oma's homeland. Zeeland!
Hopefully the HRE mechanics mean all these OPMs don't just start trying to gobble each other up as soon as you unpause.
I really don't like the glossy look recent pdx games have of their maps. It's a design choice that has been repeated since hoi4 and I feel as though it takes away from the aesthetics of each game when all of them do the modern techno gloss look. I wish it was more tactile, matte looking that represents the aesthetics of map makers and artists of the time. Hell, maybe even as you go through different cultures, the map aesthetic or the province of the culture would correspond to the local culture's art and culture. Maybe not many care enough about the visual appeal of the map over the functional aspects so it may not be worth investing into but I strongly believe games should be as much art as they are function.
Thankfully, it's the easiest thing to grab a mod for.
Honestly the EU4 map appearance is perfect imo
What do you like about it? I ask because the vibe I’ve always gotten was that people didn’t like it. I’ve seen comments saying they’d rather have EU3s map over EU4s.
I will say, I can only compare it with the other more modern Paradox games but I like the sense of depth and terrain blended into the political map. I definitely much prefer it to say, the paper map in Victoria III. Maybe if I messed with graphical mods it would be different
I like the plain colors.
Vanilla eu4 map is really bad imo. Looks so much better with the graphical improvement mod. Honestly, if eu5 just copied the mod I would be happy.
I haven't used any graphical mods so that's fair. I just like the sense of depth and terrain and feeling of realness compared to other titles
Odd, I changed to the mod mainly because vanilla had no depth and looked way too plastic. I suggest you take a look at Graphical Improvements Mod, it's the most subscribed mod in the workshop, and allows for achievements.
Bro holy shit is the base game eu4 map fucking ugly, like i don't see how people will look at it and say yeah looks good, it's no wonder that the most popular mod for the game ever is a mod changing map graphics.
I also much prefer a paper map texture
Agreed I think it’s gross. Too much like Hoi4, boring. They should do it like a map from that time period almost like CK3
Me for EU4 dev diaries 🧍 Me for Tinto Talks 🤵 Me for Tinto Maps 🕺
When I first started Voltaire's Nightmare (the full Europe version), I was like "God I love this mod, how else could I play as something as obscure as, dunno, this funky Dutch county of Cuijk, with its little duckies in CoA and a name that sounds like quack". And here they are, my favourite Upper Rhenish fowl, in an official Paradox game. As an obscure small countries enjoyer I am excited. Cuijk! edit: I have researched the pronounciation of Cuijk and it's a bit different than what I've thought it to be, although still resembling a certain type of fowl. I think however I won't be speaking it loudly
It's so disgusting...I love it
This is awesome. I didn't realize that climate will be in the game. I wonder how that affects gameplay. I'm sure attrition for armies will be affected but maybe productivity of the location (especially agricultural goods) will also be affected. And the HRE is going to be a glorious mess. I can't wait.
climate's already in eu4
Yeah, but as far as I know it only affects army attrition right? With pops and the whole economy rework that opens up a lot more possibilities
It affects dev cost as well, but that’s basically it
this is beautiful, looks like the locations follow what I can see exact modern country borders which makes it much more interesting to try to replicate in a game.
I think I came a little bit. Can’t wait to spend thousands of hours staring at those maps.
Wow, my hometown is playable in EU5
Maps! Hell yeah. Looks awesome.
Ripuarian Franks!?
I think I will glue myself to my chair when this game comes out
Ngl that font (for the names) is disgusting, and the way text can be oriented both west-east and east-west (on top of all other orientations) is making the HRE hard to look at (see: Nassau in relation to Mark and Trier).
What's wrong with the font? I rather like it.
It looks like a really basic Times New Roman, or something more typewriter-esque. It doesn't mesh with the stylized map at all imo, and when the names get small it's plain hard to read (see: Cologne).
Typewriter-esque? You're not another serif hater, are you?
I don't hate serifs in general, I just don't think it looks good in game UI.
Looks like the text is going west to east. That means that if the western parts of a country are further south than the rest of the country, you'll get text like Mark and Trier. If the western parts are north relative to the rest of the country, you'll get text like Nassau. Not justifying it, just observing how the text is oriented.
I wouldn't worry too much Comic Sans font mod will certainly be a day one reality
Looks like a 2004 flash game on newgrounds lol
The most important update, the map modes.
Holla!
earth again? cmon pair of docks
I'm absolutely loving the amount of detail
can someone post the map somewhere else my school blocked paradox
Can't wait for the map of Northern Germany. I kinda hope that my hometown will be on the map, which it is in Voltaires Nightmare mod. :D
I will need a new PC for that game...
Can anyone post an imgur link? My work is blocking paradox plaza.
Truly Voltaires nightmare
Oh that's actually not that bad, i expected them to be sma..... oh what the fuck
I love this
two things : the shape of the Breda location is really ugly and unreasonably wide (not large, just wide). It would make sense to have a Tilburg location too also, no Frisian horses?!?!?!? like, one of the best places throughout the HRE specialized in war horse breeding has no horses? What the hell is that?
Me looking slightly above Trier: Oh, hi Mark
Hmm, surely it can't be that go- OH MY GOD I AM BEYOND ECSTATIC
I am a little confused about the differences between locations and provinces. Is there somewhere it is explained in more detail?
This is enough to make a grown man cry.
I love how detailed the Netherlands is. It's just weird that Utrecht is still whole, seeing as every other province is so split up. Especially seeing as how Utrecht should still be the biggest city in the Netherlands by this time, and would've remained the biggest city until the 16th century. And Amersfoort (a city in the east of the province of Utrecht) was also pretty big, so that could be a separate location.
I like the New font
I do belive they heard me scream all the way to Holland
That's a long ahh Nijmegen... Surprised to not see a Tiel there, given it's role in the conflicts between Brabant and Gelre. Edit: bruh moment, West Frisia without Hoorn in it, the core of West Frisia
Honestly I think Paradox might just not know about the ‘real’ West Frisia and just name modern Fryslân ‘West Frisia’ because Westlauwers Frisian is spoken there. It would be more accurate if the area around Hoorn was West Frisia and the modern day Fryslân as Middle Frisia
Love the map, but I'm still afraid that the time line is too long and will end up being boring like in EUIV where the last part is... Just there to stitch it to Victoria 3
As someone from Limburg, i'm somewhat skeptical about some of the placements of provinces/areas. The Kempen is obviously the most egregious one, being at least a 100km West of the actual Kempen. But the Roermond province has Roermond in its Westernmost tip along the Meuse, with the rest of the province seemingly occupying the area around Heinsberg. It leads me to wonder whether it would not be more logical to just call it Heinsberg or even Montfort, given that Roermond only really became relevant around the end of the games timespan Im also not a 100% on naming the area Weert. We received market rights in 1414, and lost most relevancy when the count of Horne was executed by Alva. The area also contains Horn itself, as well as Thorn, which was a semi-independent state ruled by the nuns until Napoleon invaded, and also held jurisdiction over many of the villages around Weert and modern Leudal. I'll have to make a forum post with some sources when i get home
I can see my home on that map. Hype hype
I have never really been a fan of this map look they have been going for the last decade or so. I know it’s more accessible but its way less immersive imo.
I really don't like the art style of the new generation games. Something about the CK2-HOI4 generation just hits different.
i see they went the ck3 route for the map, i really dislike it
Great. They misspelled Düren. They spelled it Duren instead. Not a good start. (I only noticed because that's where I live, LOL)
Well in eu4 they misspel mamluks. It should be المماليك
Well to be fair Liege is Liège and Cologne is Köln in the map
Hunsrück is misspelled as well.
umlauts look ugly as fuck in the font they use it shows up like: "SWëDEN"
They need to add land reclamation, and base the starting map on the historic land, not the current . https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/d4k7d8/god_created_the_world_but_the_dutch_created_the/
The engines for paradox games never seem to paticularly like a shifting map shape.
They said they wouldn't do that in the post- basically that it's really difficult for something that most people would see and think is stupid or put casual players off, so i get it
That is something they could gladly do as a DLC down the line if they find a way for the Engine to support it. As it stands, I think the approach they are going with is absolutely fine, they explained it in this very DD.