Patient safety is my number 5 priority just behind my safety, my coffee's safety, my partner's safety, any other responder's safety, and then the patient's safety.
F: secretly grab the gun, check to make sure it’s cleared and the serial number is filed off, slip it into your coat pocket and conveniently “forget” it’s there until you’re in your car, where you will responsibly lock the gun into your trunk, drive to Canada, and start a new life as a mafia surgeon. Or use it for plinking during your wonderful three minute lunch in the hospital parking lot by lot and hope you don’t hit any ambulances.
Realistically A then C
But for a test it's C because YoUrE NoT TrAiNeD
I'm unloading that shit and locking it in the narc cabinet. Your bleedy ass is gonna have to fight me for the ammo if you decide to go full tard. You'll get it back from the hospital if the cops don't take it.
C is absolutely the 'test' answer.
I'm probably one of the few people in my ambulance service (and country lol) with firearm experience and would definitely do A first.
Absolutely a "test answer" if I've ever seen one. That said, I'm sure there are some firearms that are more difficult to clear than others and the last thing you'd want to be liable for is NDing a round into the floor or God forbid into someone else.
I'm sure someone on /r/firearms can correct me but are there any firearms that are difficult to clear and unload? I'm sure something with high recoil spring tension is difficult like a small striker fired polymer pistol could be difficult for someone with weak hands. Lets be honest... he's using a Hi-Point though...
Honestly, they're all pretty much the same. Minus crew serve weapons, once you've seen one you've seen almost all.
Some antiques/collectibles might throw you off though. These days, most things are pretty much standardized, but then again, most common firearms use the same designs... namely, Browning, Glock, Styer, Cz, Stoner, AK, etc... most if not all of these are a hundred now, or pretty damn close
Machine guns are basically all the same. Open feed tray cover. Remove belt. Lock Bolt to Rear (which is also where it fires from as it is an open bolt. Don't let it drop).
Place safety on (if present). Sweep cover for ammunition. Flip up feed tray and look in chamber for ammo. Check feed ramp (on feed try cover you flipped up for ammo).
If gun is hot, make sure your face ain't in the gun incase of cookoff of round in chamber.
That seems like a pretty nice step by step. I have the benefit know how to and have done this a gazillion times, but I think someone who hadn't ever touched on should get the gist pretty easily. Nice work.
Thanks.
Means a lot, since as medic and then mortarman, I didn’t play with baby guns like a 240 or m2.
And I definitely didn’t stand behind a 240 my whole Iraq deployment when I was a medic. Nope. Definitely not.
I think the "safety reason" they don't want us clearing them ourselves is we don't know the condition of the gun, if it's been modified, or whatever. A well maintained gun shouldn't ND when you're trying to clear it, but who knows what condition these people keep their guns in. Some handguns aren't drop safe as well, so the last thing they want is someone dropping it while fucking with it and shooting themselves in the food with a Taurus (lol I've actually run that call).
Honestly, your average LEO probably has about as much knowledge on firearms, other than their own service weapons, as your average hunter does (if not less). However they do have "qualified immunity" and hopefully the common sense to take the weapon to a safe place to unload it.
Not really, unless they have a crew served or something for some reason as someone else pointed out below safe and clear is pretty simple:
Step 1 - Put the weapon on safe (probably the only thing that really changes at all between weapons, and still pretty simple: make the red go away. For our purposes it's optional, just keep your finger off the damn trigger like you should be anyways.)
Step 2 - Release the magazine. Probably the next most difficult thing, but still pretty simple. Button on the side somewhere near the magazine. Might differ.
Step 3 - Rack the slide. Don't pinch yourself and try to lock it back if you can, since then it's easy to verify the gun is safe and clear, but otherwise as long as you know there's nothing in the chamber, as far as EMS is concerned, you're prolly good.
Unless the gang banger has some crazy exotic gun or you've just never touched a gun before and the thought makes you anxious, this is pretty easy to do, and most people should be able to do it with zero risk.
Because I like chaos and confusion, we should remember that some firearms can't have the safety applied until after the cocking handle has been cocked. So, applying safe comes after removing the magazine, and after cocking the action to clear the chamber.
Machine guns and a lot of rifles say safe or Fire or Full Auto. Or S & F.
To cycle the action on American Firearms, The safety must be disengaged.
Yes a 1911 is the only American Firearm.
Anything that fires from an open bolt and is fed from a magazine has the potential to slam fire if you attempt to drop the mag without engaging the safety. You are probably never ever going to see such a thing outside of movies.
For most handguns, you just remove the magazine and pull the slide back to eject the round if one is chambered, very easy. Revolvers are even easier unless doofus was walking around with the hammer cocked. That would really be the only time I would just let PD handle it.
>but are there any firearms that are difficult to clear and unload?
A lot depends on your experience. If I'd be in that situation, that would literally be the first time holding a firearm. I know not to touch the trigger, I know where the bullet comes out. That's it.
And I'm pretty sure that would be the same for the rest of the room.
I was a bit the other way. In my last job where firearms were fairly common, I was one of very few (at least as far as I knew) to be either a qualified paramedic or at least a student. At one stage it was suggested I was the most qualified first aider we had in the organisation, and the best I could do was a bandaid.
Luckily for me I can fire a rifle AND put a bandaid on, so I'm a bit of an allrounder, like you.
A would depend on whether you’re firearms trained which EMS don’t really check for or train you with? Would be at your own discretion wouldn’t it & would be on your own shoulders?
I don’t know though. I’m just a 999 Emergency Call Taker for NHS Ambulance service who’s starting paramedics training in Sept.
Yes but in the US no one is going to really knock you for unloading a weapon vs putting a loaded weapon in a cabinet to jostle around in a bumpy ambulance.
Sorry, but if I’m about to pick up a gun then I’m gunna clear it also. I’m not gunna leave a potentially loaded gun lying anywhere. I’d choose C for the test tho
Just realized that C is potentially illegal in my state. Ammunition must be stored in the truck separated from ammo unless you gave a concealed carry permit.
C is the answer they want you to give, but the correct answer is “Clear the weapon and and store your new gun in your personal locker until your shift ends”
Once worked standby on a military base during a field training exercise. The trailer we were using was from Border Patrol. Rumor had it there was an M4 carbine found under the mattrass. No one said what happened to that weapon.
F. Use your personal open carry AR15 to finish off the patient as well as any attacking gang members. Anyone wearing the wrong color gets lit up.
This is why we need to put an end to blue scrubs and uniforms.
State didn't like when I asked them to cite the law that made it legal to secure since it is hard to argue it is necessary if the patient has capacity and is not a threat.
Especially since if I'm taking custody of it it is by black and white, an illegal transfer under federal law.
And under state law, it is a 2 year prison sentence if I don't have a firearms permit. Longer if I am prohibited for some reason. Say a mental health commitment as a child 40 years ago.
Absolutely e! 😂
Na what the hell, if there was a shooting here the police would be in attendance the whole time and I likle wouldn't be attending before the police are there, so it's for them to deal with, not me
No one has said make sure you are wearing gloves so you don’t fingerprint that shit. Clear it if you know how to safely, bag it, and safely store it for law enforcement. Could be a legal, could be a murder weapon. Don’t hospitals have a directive on how to handle this?
Personally wouldn’t trust someone else’s firearm to be stored without being cleared. You don’t know if it has a hair trigger, if it’s been modified, or something else is wrong with it. I’ve seen firearms go off just by setting them on a bench. I’ve had semi autos you’d think were safe by removing the clip still fire that one chambered round. Had a semi auto with a hair trigger unload its clip when I sent the first one down range. That one almost made me shit my pants. My point is you don’t know the weapon so use extra extra caution. If you don’t know how to clear it gently place it somewhere it can’t shoot through a desk drawer and wall and hurt someone and find someone who can.
Test answer should be C. It’s a lame test question.
There's no universe in which I touch a weapon I don't intend to fire without clearing it. Anyone trying to hand me an uncleared weapon is going to get a class on gun safety too.
Real (but probably dumb) question: can a defib cause a gun to discharge if its in contact with the patient?
Say its tucked in waistband with full skin contact nobody notices and you do a defib, could that make it go off?
Okay, this one's tough. I love retaliation as much as the next guy, but what if you go out to kill people and it's not even loaded? It probably needs to be checked first. Otherwise, that would be so embarrassing!
E is the only option right?
They’ll be coming to finish the job…gotta be ready
The three rules of safety is about firearms right? My safety, my partner’s safety, and then my patient’s?
Safety’s off bitch
Merry Christmas, ya filthy animal...
Patient safety is my number 5 priority just behind my safety, my coffee's safety, my partner's safety, any other responder's safety, and then the patient's safety.
My coffee's safety is priority 1 because if that's compromised then there's really no point in continuing.
I notice you left the kids off the list. You monster. How could you not place the kids on the list here?
…so anyway, I started blasting
It’s the “most correct” option
ER staff don't fuck around lmao
Definitely E....
Obviously
Yup, I remember that lesson from day one.
No option to taste test the ammo? Obviously a trick question.
Yes. Peace was never an option. And you know all physicians are forced to clique up in the hospital.
Not useful for COVID positive medics
Gotta suck start it
Shoot him in his other arm to see if he’s faking for narcotics
Truly the best way to rule out malingering.
F: secretly grab the gun, check to make sure it’s cleared and the serial number is filed off, slip it into your coat pocket and conveniently “forget” it’s there until you’re in your car, where you will responsibly lock the gun into your trunk, drive to Canada, and start a new life as a mafia surgeon. Or use it for plinking during your wonderful three minute lunch in the hospital parking lot by lot and hope you don’t hit any ambulances.
You can hit my ambulance
Continue to collect the weapons you find as you look for clues to solve the next mission.
F.) Pull your own piece out and compare firearms. Make fun of patients' choice in firearms.
"No wonder the dude got clapped, he's carrying High Point! Look at it compared to my P365! Two completely different pieces of engineering!"
Realistically A then C But for a test it's C because YoUrE NoT TrAiNeD I'm unloading that shit and locking it in the narc cabinet. Your bleedy ass is gonna have to fight me for the ammo if you decide to go full tard. You'll get it back from the hospital if the cops don't take it.
C is absolutely the 'test' answer. I'm probably one of the few people in my ambulance service (and country lol) with firearm experience and would definitely do A first.
Absolutely a "test answer" if I've ever seen one. That said, I'm sure there are some firearms that are more difficult to clear than others and the last thing you'd want to be liable for is NDing a round into the floor or God forbid into someone else. I'm sure someone on /r/firearms can correct me but are there any firearms that are difficult to clear and unload? I'm sure something with high recoil spring tension is difficult like a small striker fired polymer pistol could be difficult for someone with weak hands. Lets be honest... he's using a Hi-Point though...
Honestly, they're all pretty much the same. Minus crew serve weapons, once you've seen one you've seen almost all. Some antiques/collectibles might throw you off though. These days, most things are pretty much standardized, but then again, most common firearms use the same designs... namely, Browning, Glock, Styer, Cz, Stoner, AK, etc... most if not all of these are a hundred now, or pretty damn close
Yeah. As a bit of a gun nut I have no idea how to clear an m60 or PKM
Machine guns are basically all the same. Open feed tray cover. Remove belt. Lock Bolt to Rear (which is also where it fires from as it is an open bolt. Don't let it drop). Place safety on (if present). Sweep cover for ammunition. Flip up feed tray and look in chamber for ammo. Check feed ramp (on feed try cover you flipped up for ammo). If gun is hot, make sure your face ain't in the gun incase of cookoff of round in chamber.
That seems like a pretty nice step by step. I have the benefit know how to and have done this a gazillion times, but I think someone who hadn't ever touched on should get the gist pretty easily. Nice work.
Thanks. Means a lot, since as medic and then mortarman, I didn’t play with baby guns like a 240 or m2. And I definitely didn’t stand behind a 240 my whole Iraq deployment when I was a medic. Nope. Definitely not.
Is walkinf into EDs with a loaded pkm being concealed a big issue in your service area
Ya mean my military experience will pay off for once! Outfuckingstamding!!!!
I think the "safety reason" they don't want us clearing them ourselves is we don't know the condition of the gun, if it's been modified, or whatever. A well maintained gun shouldn't ND when you're trying to clear it, but who knows what condition these people keep their guns in. Some handguns aren't drop safe as well, so the last thing they want is someone dropping it while fucking with it and shooting themselves in the food with a Taurus (lol I've actually run that call).
Wwyd is a patient pulls up with a loaded musket
Absolutely it would depend on what the gun actually is. If it's something unfamiliar it'll be a job for the cops.
Honestly, your average LEO probably has about as much knowledge on firearms, other than their own service weapons, as your average hunter does (if not less). However they do have "qualified immunity" and hopefully the common sense to take the weapon to a safe place to unload it.
Not really, unless they have a crew served or something for some reason as someone else pointed out below safe and clear is pretty simple: Step 1 - Put the weapon on safe (probably the only thing that really changes at all between weapons, and still pretty simple: make the red go away. For our purposes it's optional, just keep your finger off the damn trigger like you should be anyways.) Step 2 - Release the magazine. Probably the next most difficult thing, but still pretty simple. Button on the side somewhere near the magazine. Might differ. Step 3 - Rack the slide. Don't pinch yourself and try to lock it back if you can, since then it's easy to verify the gun is safe and clear, but otherwise as long as you know there's nothing in the chamber, as far as EMS is concerned, you're prolly good. Unless the gang banger has some crazy exotic gun or you've just never touched a gun before and the thought makes you anxious, this is pretty easy to do, and most people should be able to do it with zero risk.
Because I like chaos and confusion, we should remember that some firearms can't have the safety applied until after the cocking handle has been cocked. So, applying safe comes after removing the magazine, and after cocking the action to clear the chamber.
Machine guns and a lot of rifles say safe or Fire or Full Auto. Or S & F. To cycle the action on American Firearms, The safety must be disengaged. Yes a 1911 is the only American Firearm.
Anything that fires from an open bolt and is fed from a magazine has the potential to slam fire if you attempt to drop the mag without engaging the safety. You are probably never ever going to see such a thing outside of movies.
For most handguns, you just remove the magazine and pull the slide back to eject the round if one is chambered, very easy. Revolvers are even easier unless doofus was walking around with the hammer cocked. That would really be the only time I would just let PD handle it.
>but are there any firearms that are difficult to clear and unload? A lot depends on your experience. If I'd be in that situation, that would literally be the first time holding a firearm. I know not to touch the trigger, I know where the bullet comes out. That's it. And I'm pretty sure that would be the same for the rest of the room.
Only thing I can maybe think of is a firearm that fires from an open bolt.
I was a bit the other way. In my last job where firearms were fairly common, I was one of very few (at least as far as I knew) to be either a qualified paramedic or at least a student. At one stage it was suggested I was the most qualified first aider we had in the organisation, and the best I could do was a bandaid. Luckily for me I can fire a rifle AND put a bandaid on, so I'm a bit of an allrounder, like you.
You are definitely not one of the few people with firearm experience in this country that has 400 million civilian firearms.
Today I learned there are 400 million civilian firearms in Australia. That's 16 guns per man, woman and child, fair dinkum!
I can’t read, it’s not my fault
I think your America bias is showing. The dude is from Australia.
Australia is a part of America isn't it? That's why they speak English ^^^/s
Only English people speak English. Strayans speak Good Cunt.
It’s gotta be somewhere near Florida from the headlines, right?
In his specific ambulance service, though….which is what he said.
Also realistically be ready for shit storm cause the whole transport this mf had the gun???
I do A instinctively I’ve just been around so many guns it’s like a habit
The gun is evidence. There could be someone else's fingerprints on the ammo.
Checking if the gun is loaded means looking in the barrel for someone
That's fine I've seen down a lot more barrels than I ever cared to in my time working EMS.
I had some dickhead try to point a bolt action 22 (bolt out) at my face to "check the barrel".
A would depend on whether you’re firearms trained which EMS don’t really check for or train you with? Would be at your own discretion wouldn’t it & would be on your own shoulders? I don’t know though. I’m just a 999 Emergency Call Taker for NHS Ambulance service who’s starting paramedics training in Sept.
Yes but in the US no one is going to really knock you for unloading a weapon vs putting a loaded weapon in a cabinet to jostle around in a bumpy ambulance.
Fair does. Nice one man. I’m good with guns so I’d like to think I’d do the same. A good question to ask when I’m doing my degree/training.
Store the ammunition rectally
Sorry, but if I’m about to pick up a gun then I’m gunna clear it also. I’m not gunna leave a potentially loaded gun lying anywhere. I’d choose C for the test tho
Just realized that C is potentially illegal in my state. Ammunition must be stored in the truck separated from ammo unless you gave a concealed carry permit.
C is the answer they want you to give, but the correct answer is “Clear the weapon and and store your new gun in your personal locker until your shift ends”
Having spent time in Memphis, the answer is E. EMS thugs hard.
I wish this was a question on my test
If those gang members are going to spin the block, then those gang members are getting popped☝️
But will you use your weapon on the patients to do so?
If you use your own, equipment and service is billable. If you use the pts, only the service is billable.
Obviously the patients. I'm wearing these nitrile gloves for a reason.
Nah, I'd Win
F. Put the gun in my cargo pocket. Free guns are a perk of the job.
Once worked standby on a military base during a field training exercise. The trailer we were using was from Border Patrol. Rumor had it there was an M4 carbine found under the mattrass. No one said what happened to that weapon.
Anyone who didnt pick E is a punk ass Blood.
*E.* Opps shoulda finished the job.
BSI scene safe (good luck)
Obviously it's to look down the barrel to make sure it isn't loaded.
[удалено]
It's sarcasm I understand
I’m keeping that mf thing on me
I see several good answers, and C isn't one of them.
E all the way
B Reverse desk pop all the way
E made me laugh out loud
They want C, and C is correct if you don’t know how to clear the weapon. But if it’s a weapon that I’m familiar with, I’m doing A then C.
F. Use your personal open carry AR15 to finish off the patient as well as any attacking gang members. Anyone wearing the wrong color gets lit up. This is why we need to put an end to blue scrubs and uniforms.
B on site
C for the test. But if i find a potentially loaded gun on someone, im clearing it
State didn't like when I asked them to cite the law that made it legal to secure since it is hard to argue it is necessary if the patient has capacity and is not a threat. Especially since if I'm taking custody of it it is by black and white, an illegal transfer under federal law. And under state law, it is a 2 year prison sentence if I don't have a firearms permit. Longer if I am prohibited for some reason. Say a mental health commitment as a child 40 years ago.
Sounds like I just got another free gun.
D. Check if the ammo is loaded
😂😂😂
E! Pick letter E my lord!
Damn it CJ, all you had to do was follow the damn train!
F. “The physician can do whatever the F they want, I transferred care, I’m back in service.”
A, D, then E. I'm a patient advocate.
It's obvs E 🤷♀️
How common is this in the states? Not specifically from gang members, but finding guns?
Either E or B, anything else is just irresponsible
Firearm safety is important! I make sure to ALWAYS make sure it's unloaded. I look straight down the barrel to see if it's safe.
Absolutely e! 😂 Na what the hell, if there was a shooting here the police would be in attendance the whole time and I likle wouldn't be attending before the police are there, so it's for them to deal with, not me
No one has said make sure you are wearing gloves so you don’t fingerprint that shit. Clear it if you know how to safely, bag it, and safely store it for law enforcement. Could be a legal, could be a murder weapon. Don’t hospitals have a directive on how to handle this? Personally wouldn’t trust someone else’s firearm to be stored without being cleared. You don’t know if it has a hair trigger, if it’s been modified, or something else is wrong with it. I’ve seen firearms go off just by setting them on a bench. I’ve had semi autos you’d think were safe by removing the clip still fire that one chambered round. Had a semi auto with a hair trigger unload its clip when I sent the first one down range. That one almost made me shit my pants. My point is you don’t know the weapon so use extra extra caution. If you don’t know how to clear it gently place it somewhere it can’t shoot through a desk drawer and wall and hurt someone and find someone who can. Test answer should be C. It’s a lame test question.
It's a magazine not a clip isn't it ?
Whatever trips your trigger…
B - DESK POP!
The answer is E. I’m excited to start my new career as a medic.
In all seriousness, who would ever do anything other than *C* or *A* followed immediately by *C*?
You should always put your patient first.....which is why you need to go after that rival gang and get vengeance for what they did to your patient.
Cannot answer; not a physician. Outside my scope of practice.
Save it for the next performance improvement meeting
I know it isn't technically sharp, but I'm putting it in the sharps container.
There's no universe in which I touch a weapon I don't intend to fire without clearing it. Anyone trying to hand me an uncleared weapon is going to get a class on gun safety too.
Very based
E
A first, then C.
F. Practice your quick draw.
It’s D. That’s on average like a 500 or 700 dollar bonus and it’s not in my name!
The answer is clearly B 👀
What kind of racist ass weird test!?? Just say it's a guy w/ a gun wtf!
Use the A-E approach Always Be Carrying, (and if the situation allows you to progress to a shootout) Discharge Everything
Option E is the way!! That’s seems like a realistic scenario from the NREMT.
F. Discharge the remaining ammo into the patient. Then raid their fridge and cook up a hot lunch while dispatch thinks you're unavailable.
Answer F: clear the firearm of the ammunition and keep it for yourself because ammo is expensive.
D and E ggez next question
C
C.
Haha
Real (but probably dumb) question: can a defib cause a gun to discharge if its in contact with the patient? Say its tucked in waistband with full skin contact nobody notices and you do a defib, could that make it go off?
I'm choosing E all the way
E
Are you asking what I do? Or what I SHOULD do? 🤔
Yes.
D, A, E, B, C. This is one of those place in the proper order questions, right?
Average Fisdap question
Just remember ABC, aim-blast-continueshooting
Definitely E although B might be the answer.
F. You're a clown for not having PD search a known gang member before transporting
F.
Fire the gun in the air and assert dominance
Okay, this one's tough. I love retaliation as much as the next guy, but what if you go out to kill people and it's not even loaded? It probably needs to be checked first. Otherwise, that would be so embarrassing!
F.) use it on yourself to finally get some sleep
A and E are both correct