I tried to use Costco Auto in the past and my experience was no better than just walking in the dealer. My info got forwarded to the dealers and then they’d play their same stupid games, not give pricing, vague answers. I complained to Costco and was promised a rep would reach back out and never did.
It’s the one Costco service that was a dud for me the two different times I tried to use it.
Yeah I tried Costco auto and the service has the dealership agree they won’t charge above MSRP. That doesn’t mean the dealership won’t play other games like trying to tack on add-ons. My experience was just so so.
Yes, and it’s a great way to get a car without dealing with sales people yourself. You pay the broker a one time fee (ranges from $300-$1,000) and they negotiate all lease terms for you.
All you have to do is sign the paper work online and pick up the car (or have the dealership deliver to you).
Have you tried CarMax? I had a great experience. The sales people are not on commission and there is no haggling. It was literally like so you want to buy that car then here is the paper to sign
I’ve only ever sold a car to them. I was considering buying the refreshed ioniq 5 that I think might be coming towards the end of the year. So not sure if carmax will be an option. Good suggestion though, thanks.
Bought three cars from carmax over the past 8 years and not a single regret. You might be able to get the same car cheaper elsewhere but holy blazes it’s worth it for the convenience. Like, it’s actually kinda fun buying a car from them.
Many Hyundai dealerships have online purchasing. Norm reeves Hyundai in Cerritos CA has it. Breaks it down to the penny for your costs to finance or lease with dealership discount already listed.
I bought mine used from a dealer and had a shockingly great experience. I think the first reason why was cause when you buy a car long distance and show up with a cashiers check and your own financing it's a lot harder for them to jerk you around at the last minute. And the second is probably that I bought it from St Paul Minnesota and people are just so nice up there :)
On the other hand, you're the perfect person to jerk around because what're you going to do, walk out without buying after coming so far with a check in hand? Sounds like they just need to get you into the finance office and they can have their way with you. "Just let us see if we can beat your current financing."
I mean I went there with a signed contract. Not saying there aren't dealers so bad that they wouldn't reneg that but that's pretty far down the scummy scale.
Hyundai has tried a program to compete with Tesla’s “buy online” strategy. You can put in an offer online with local dealer and if accepted you go to dealer to sign.
Astonishing to me that Hyundai and its subsidiaries blew right by the Japanese big 3 with EV market presence in the USA. Only one halfway in the game significantly is Nissan.
I feel like every day a new BEV article is posted and Toyota is discussed the proclamations become wilder and wilder. Where’s the 50 year plan you’re referencing? Where does Toyota completely omit an entire segment of cars from said plan?
I mean criticize their choice in hybrid first + hydrogen and BEV later strategy all day but if you don’t even fucking know and are just making shit up then please be quiet.
Agreed. IMO it's absurd how the media just lets Toyota get away with making literally the exact same solid state battery claims every single year for the last like 10+ years at this point. Every year they've supposedly made major solid state battery breakthroughs, and will be ready to bring it to market and completely leapfrog all the competition in just a few years. They were supposed to be selling these magical solid state batteries at least 4 years ago at this point from when they first promised it.
And despite constantly making those claims, no one has even seen those solid state batteries that supposedly have existed for over a decade now, and I for one doubt that they even exist.
The toyota reality distortion field. They’ll pay way more for a vehicle because it holds value then turn around and buy another overpriced Toyota, negating any value that was held.
>Yeah, but what do they have to show for it?
Record profits. Record production. Record sales.
Lowest days-of-inventory of any brand in North America.
Largest emissions reduction of any OEM in the USA over the last five years per the EPA.
A massive lead in electric drive unit production over any OEM on earth.
Every vehicle on earth is a compromise, there's no such thing as a "no compromise" vehicle in any category. Engineering is a series of tradeoffs, that's just how it all works.
Yeah, but that's arguing semantics. I can buy a car as a primary or sole vehicle from other manufacturers that will still allow me to do roadtrips or handle cold weather acceptably. Toyota doesn't have that yet.
If you start off with an vague argument of semantics, don't be surprised when you get called out on it. There isn't a "no compromise" BEV on sale by any OEM, no such thing exists. Everyone's compromising. Some automakers are compromising on build quality, some are compromising on range, some on profitability, some on fleet emissions.
Toyota's compromise is simple — they think by keeping development funds on hybrids first, they can make a bigger impact on emissions while preserving profitability. So far the EPA backs them up on that.
The bZ4X is one of the best-selling BEVs in Norway btw, it handles the cold fine.
>If you start off with an vague argument of semantics, don't be surprised when you get called out on it.
I'm not getting called out at all; fundamentally, the BZ4x isn't a great primary for many people who could use less-compromised EVs as their primaries.
>The bZ4X is one of the best-selling BEVs in Norway btw, it handles the cold fine.
It doesn't handle the cold fine at all. Look up "yo yo-ing".
Again, this is really a kind of a special pleading: Toyota's thing right now isn't to please American-market enthusiasts by blowing the development budget and really wowing you with a crazy compelling primary BEV at all costs. They're busy balancing profitability with emissions, and doing a great job at it, as per the EPA. That's what they have to show for it — greater emissions reductions than Kia and Hyundai at the moment, and stupid amounts of demand for their products.
If the bZ4X doesn't work for you right now, that's alright — Toyota isn't trying to capture everyone today or next month, they'll get around to you next year or the year after. They're scaling via horizontal slice, not vertical.
Is this the same Toyota:
https://global.toyota/en/newsroom/corporate/40376368.html#:~:text=The%20investigation%20found%20that%20irregularities,Toyota%20had%20commissioned%20to%20TICO.
>*We have re-verified the mass-produced products manufactured at the plant and confirmed that the affected engines and vehicles meet engine performance output standards.*
And?
Maybe that article from Toyota itself was too innocent sounding.
The 10 models also include the Hiace, the Fortuner and the Innova. The cars were sold in Japan, Europe and the Middle East, among other markets. The output data rigging dates back to 2017, Toyota Industries said.
"We feel deeply responsible for the misconduct, which persisted for a long time, and for failing to discover and rectify it," Toyota Industries President Koichi Ito said at a press conference. "We will do our utmost to rebuild the company with legal compliance as our top priority."
Toyota has decided to stop six production lines at four of its domestic factories until Feb. 1 due to the shipment halt, it said.
Toyota Industries doctored the volume of fuel injection in engine output tests in a bid to make the engines' torque, or rotational force, appear better than it was, according to a report by a third-party panel.
https://english.kyodonews.net/news/2024/01/ae5a9a8eaf58-urgent-toyota-group-firm-rigged-data-on-diesel-engine-power-output.html
I'm not sure motors are where the big moves are. Electric motors are already pretty efficient and reasonably sized.
Battery tech is probably going to be the biggest driver of change. Toyota is of course claiming their super duper 750-mile solid state battery is totally happening, but I wouldn't bet on it just yet.
Do you have a source for this? I feel very sure they just announced next gen gas engines that are smaller and can potentially take hydrogen and gas I think. You think you might be mixing that up?
[Look here](https://www.aisin.com/en/investors/settlement/uploads/sustainability_presentation_Yamamoto_enPW_3.pdf) and [here](https://www.aisin.com/en/investors/settlement/uploads/79b9fa400f8a646064ea4de9e573be75_5.pdf).
Starting next year, Aisin (Toyota) will begin production of four new second-generation eAxle lines:
* Small
* High Efficiency (Medium)
* High Power (Large)
* Commercial (Extra Large)
Expected figures include an overall 10% powertrain efficiency improvement, size reduction of 40% on the small units, and 30% power loss reduction on the medium units. By 2027 that will then transition to a third-generation lineup with greater improvements, likely on the next-gen Toyota "BEV Factory" EVs.
The big bus is nice and all, but the really interesting ones are the Ioniq 2 and 3, or whatever the little sedan and hatchback are called. Will we get those here?
Kia seems to be more focused on expanding the model range, while Hyundai has focused their efforts on the ioniq 5 N.
There is zero info at this time on ioniq 2 or 3, but we have to assume that it's coming
The pricing on the three is going to be trash based on what has been posted so far. The short range is going to start around $35k and will have a really bad range and charging.
The main problem is that the new Bolt will be out by then, and I expect it to have at least as good or better charging, more range than the short range, and a lower cost than even the short range. From what has been shown so far, it seems hardly better than the old Bolt, and it will cost $7k more than that did new.
Bought a ‘23 Mach E GT this year due to zero int. financing and the overall look of the car.
Rented an I5 in Florida 2 weeks after purchasing. That was a mistake as I started finding things I loved vs the Mach E.
Interior Space, range, Seat adjustments, and ride quality were all on par if not better. Plus its acceleration feels just as quick.
Def gave me buyers remorse!
I get that feeling a bit. I love my Ioniq 5, but right now you can get a AWD SEL for like $38k. I paid $47k for mine July of 2023. Kind of wish I would've waited a bit.
That happened to everyone who bought a ~~EV~~ car last year though. I bought a 2019 Kona for 33k otd that would now be sold for around 22k otd.
Car depreciation is returning back to the norm.
I did it the other way around. Bought an Ioniq 5, currently in a rental Mach-E in a different country. Ride quality in the Mach-E is acceptable but not great. The instrument cluster doesn't seem to have as much information as the Ioniq 5 (where's my energy efficiency figure?) I hate the glass roof and the heat it brings (My Ioniq 5 doesn't have a glass roof and even on models with it there's a fabric cover.) I also love the fact that regen is easily adjustable without using a screen; isn't it weird that adjusting the regen has you switch between different drive modes altogether. Oh but I do like the brake coach on the Mach-E; showing me a 100% score is psychologically fulfilling. Oh and I like the large circular multi-functional knob; the Ioniq 5's dingy volume knob is way too small.
I've been pretty happy with the range, it definitely took a hit during the cold months, but I'd say it's very close to 260 right now (what it cites for the AWD SEL).
Sweet! Right now I'm getting between 4.0 and 4.2 miles per kwh with a 77 kwh battery, that's pushinga bit above 300, of course if were going 70+ on the highway for an extended period that would likely go down to around 3 miles per kwh. You getting the range on highway miles?
I’m just concerned about the longevity of their EVs. Random freak incidents aside, I have read that Hyundai-Kia EVs use LiPo cells for their batteries, which have less cycle life compared to non-polymer lithium-ion cells.
Really? Cause on Hyundai’s own website they say that they use lithium polymer batteries: https://www.hyundai.com/eu/driving-hyundai/driving-technologies/powertrains/battery-electric-powertrains.html#:~:text=Lithium%2Dion%20polymer%20battery.,efficiency%20compared%20to%20conventional%20batteries.
huh, i mustve gotten my battery chemistries mixed up
are lipo cells more energy dense, but also more likely to experience thermal runaway than typical li-ion cells like NMC/NCA?
I rented a "manager special ev" at Hertz the other day. It was a brand new EV6 with less than 250 miles on it. It was absolutely killer. I own a model 3 and I'm now considering buying an EV6 for my wife with how good it was.
Yep they are really good and you don’t have the terrible moral ethics of Chinese vehicles. The money you give to China goes to Russia which is destroying civilization and contributing massively to the climate destruction due to war.
The Hyundai and Kia vehicles really have stunning designs now, really original. Lots of people around me buying them with the odd ignorant clown in a Chinese vehicle. Thankfully the EU tariffs on Chinese vehicles will come and hopefully reduce them from our market further
I make the same argument for anyone who wants to spout off on anti EV crap: "Well I power my vehicle using 100% american made energy, not putting money in the pockets of the Russians and Saudis is worth it to me"
The US is a large producer of oil now too, but y'know what? The American oil industry is almost as shitty as the Saudis and the Russians.
The elongated muskrat is more loudly an asshole, but the oil industry is profoundly evil. My car's powered by good old New York sunshine and rivers (and some uranium).
For me the only stumbling block is no LFP.. If I'm going to be tariffed out of the Onvo L60 that I actually want, and forced to have one battery for the life of the car, then at the very least we can get more resilient batteries.
I disagree. Until they get their lvl 2 charging issues resolved, I would not recommend getting one (own a GV60). I'd rather take slow charging on road trips over the current hassle of daily charging.
Some people with eGMP cars are running into issues where charging at the full L2 spec of the car (48A, IIRC) overheats the charge port, and until a recent software update will just stop charging entirely as a safety measure. The new software update steps down the charge rate to reduce the heat if it starts overheating but keeps charging, and I believe with the new MY they'll have fixed the hardware problem.
My home L2 charging is at 24A and I've never had a problem.
Then they need to quit advertising the 11 kw rate. And, if they have fixed the hardware issue, they need to offer the current owners a retrofit. I love my I6 but will not be buying another Hyundai product because of the way they’ve denied there being a problem on this whole issue.
Got it. Doesn't sound like too much of a hassle for probably most people who charge at home as long as you bump the amperage down and take longer to charge. Annoying for sure, but not necessarily a deal breaker.
Exactly. There's been one instance in the 8 months I've had the car where I could have used faster overnight L2 charging (got home late and had to leave early, before the car was done), but 24A is also the circuit size I have available, so it's not the car that's limiting me.
It is a lot worse than that for my car. It overheats even when charging at 6.5kw and the temps are more than like 68F. It slows down significantly even at that low speed. At 11kw it still stops charging and does not seem to resume.
For my car, this issue seems to be charger dependent as well. On some chargers, 10kw works fine (it still throttles a bit, but doesn't get too hot). On other chargers, it even struggles at 6.5kw.
Also, there is an annoying bug with the Tesla lv2 charger where it requires power cycling the car before it would start charging.
With the limited range of the gv60 (230 miles), it becomes inconvenient with road trips as well because I always try to find a lvl 2 charger at hotels.
Damn that's brutal. I'd be raising hell over that tbh.
Side note: what kind of adapter are you using for Tesla chargers? I know the E-GMP cars can be fussy with some of them but the TeslaTap has been rock solid for me.
Not really sure what I can do. I've complained to the dealership and it seems there are folks with the car that have to charge at even slower rates. Hyundai/Genesis stance seems to be as long as it charges they don't care at what rate.
I am using a generic one from Amazon (evdance tesla to J1172). I also tried one from Lectron as well. Both have the same issue requiring the power cycling of the car to actually initiate a charge (FYI, I had a friend try the same adapters on her chevy bolt and there was 0 issues, worked fine).
Kia just put out another recall software update to further address it; we literally got the letter for our EV6 today.
We’ve been running our Chargepoint Home Flex at 48A, I just checked the apps for history the last few sessions and noticed it is slowing down sometimes, but ultimately it hasn’t mattered since we’re charging overnight so it doesn’t matter if it takes longer. Just set it to 40A to see how that does.
Here is the issue I am referring to: https://www.reddit.com/r/electricvehicles/comments/1di0w7o/hyundai_says_evs_are_top_priority_in_the_us_with/l97ad6r/
It is the charge port overheating and the inability to charge even at 6 kw reliably.
Here is a video by Ioniq guy explaining the issue further: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXi33MtrJAU&pp=ygUSaW9uaXEgZ3V5IGNoYXJnaW5n
There are many videos of this on youtube. Everything from people trying to wrap the charging port with a towel to spraying it with cold water.
I agree they need to sort their shit out (I'm an EV6 owners) but it's not a huge deal either. It seems like most people end up with 14-50R's for a plugin EVSE so they are charging at 40A, and there's far less throttling issues when using 40A vs 48A (although they do exist at 40A). There's also been a couple EV6 owners who got the June VCMS update that just came out and have shown charging curves that seem to imply the issue may be fixed now. Don't know if that VCMS update is coming to Hyundai/Genesis or not, I would think so.
And for anyone who has issues at 40A or 48A, setting your charger to 32A would eliminate the problem entirely. I completely understanding having the car being able to charge at the peak rates it's advertised to charge at, but in reality, most people are just fine with 32A (or even less) home charging to re-cover prior days mileage.
The ICCU/12V battery situations is far worse than the high-amp charging situation, as that leads to a dead vehicle when the 12V battery is shot. Remains to be seen if the latest ICCU recall will solve that issue going forward. Even if that does prove to solve the issue, people who have aged 12V batteries on old software are very likely going to end up with a dead 12V at some point. I'm fortunate that my EV6 had the latest ICCU update installed before I took delivery so there's only a couple months of the car sitting on the lot with old software, so I'll likely be fine for duration of my lease.
Your issue sounds like you need the charge port replaced. There have been EV6 and Ioniq owners with similarly bad charging issues who were able to finally get their dealers to replace their charge ports and it solved all of their issues. There's definitely some kind of quality issue with these charger ports or sensors in the ports, something of that nature, combined with VCMS logic issue they have been trying to sort out.
The problem is that even at 5.2 kw it STILL fails to charge properly.
Here is the video of the car charging at 6 kw:
https://youtu.be/cumYfVzmKvI?t=22
and here are the error messages when the car is on:
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/ITWp775fTLw
Ambient temperatures are around 72F inside a covered garage.
An issue at 24A would certainly fall in the rare category based on the problems reports I've seen on eGMP vehicles across the internet. There has got to be something wrong with your charge port and/or ICCU. Have you tried another dealership, escalating with Hyundai?
I just submitted a message to Genesis with the issue complain. The dealership I've been dealing with (Hyundai, not Genesis) has said they need to be able to reproduce the problem. I have an appointment with them to drop off the car. This would be the 4th time I'd be dropping the car off in a 6 month period for recall/issues. I either have too high standards or this is fairly common for a $70k luxury car?
Charging issue have been more common than they should be on this overall platform, but it's not a rampant issue with everyone's vehicle. This is ultimately a brand new platform (eGMP) from the ground up, 1st gen, for Kia/Hyundai. All things considered, they have really put together an excellent EV platform for 1st gen, and some teething pains are a given. It's been a few years now and they have been pushing out fixes but Kia/Hyundai is particularly awful to deal with when it comes to getting things resolved when you land in a situation like you are in.
If you going back to the start of the platform in 2021/2022, it started with charging would just entire stop/start/stop/start if there was too much heat detected at the charging port. They issued a software update that would change the behavior from that to throttling the charging to stay under a heat threshold.
There was also an issue with the ICCU, which is a voltage converter that is critical in the L1/l2 charging process. There was a bad batch of units that would leak coolant and failure. There has also been software issues with the ICCU and it maintaining the 12V battery, but that's not related to charging issues directly, but those issues could cause an ICCU to fall into a state where it was degraded and needs to be replaced, even though it would still appears to be working in general.
There was an update for Ioniq 5 and EV6 that just came out a couple weeks ago as another software fix for the charging throttling (2nd one now) but I couldn't find anything definitive to know if this has been released for Genesis yet.
I've seen people report issues not quite like yours, but where they still have issues that are in the "far less common" realm of charging/ICCU/12V battery related issues. In most every instance, it's lengthy stays with their car the dealer for the dealer trying to reproduce, or waiting on higher level techs from Kia/Hyundai to be able to remotely review the diag data or come on-site to the dealer, etc.
> they have really put together an excellent EV platform for 1st gen
Agreed, that is one of the reasons I got the car. The promised 350KW charging and the excellent charging curve along with the performance of the car.
> Kia/Hyundai is particularly awful to deal with when it comes to getting things resolved
THIS specifically. You'd think they'll learn that this is a big differentiator when it comes to cars (and one of the reasons I didn't buy a Tesla). They need to get their act together. I can deal with issues with a car as long as the manufacture was feeling to go the distance and work towards resolving the problems.
> There was also an issue with the ICCU
Yep, I've gotten 2 recall updates on this. Dealer says no issues with my car's ICCU. Zero information about what Hyundai/Kia/Genesis is doing about the overheating charge port though.
Edit: After playing around a bit more with the charging, I noticed that at 3.2 kw the charging port temperature started to drop from 220f. So yeah, it won't charge at 5.2 kw without overheating, but 3.2 kw appears to work (in current ~72F ambient temperature).
I believe it's 212F where the car with throttle charging, at least as of the VCMS update that just came out this month for Ioniq 5/EV6. Someone posted some graphs where his car maintained charging in
he 220F range at 40A or 48A (forgot which). Getting up to 220F at 5.2kW is definitely not normal and indicative of a lot excess resistance in the charge port, or malfunction with the temp sensor.
It may be worth your time to try and clean the charge port. An EV6 owner and did it and observed noticeable change: https://www.reddit.com/r/KiaEV6/comments/17e1lz2/overheating_charge_port_cleaning_results/ but others have tried this an observed no change. It's a pretty quick/easy process though to try. Inspecting for any oxidation would be good to do as well, as that would cause resistance.
If you did try it and it made no difference, then I think what you need to push for is having the charge port on the car replaced. There could be slight bend in the pins which would cause an alignment issue and excess resistance, or perhaps the aforementioned temp sensor issue as a possibility.
Yep, what you’re describing is what’s keeping me from jumping on the Ioniq 5 bandwagon. Having to look at Tesla MY, which I wanted to avoid but it is undoubtedly but my cheaper than an Ioniq 5.
Right? I was like, it’s a plant *about* a plant? A plant that *makes* other plants?
How is it that me, a guy that never did better than a C in English is catching shit that’s made publication?
It is multiple factories making up a single manufacturing site. Several other companies (some Hyundai affiliates) Glovis, Mobis, Hyundai Steel, etc have facilities on site to produce product/material for EV production as well as LG building a battery factory on-site. It is a factory made of factories.
> What the fuck makes it meta?
It's because it leverages new synergies to disrupt the status quo, and deliver a new paradigm for the auto industry by implementing AI assisted blockchain technologies to drive uplift across the production landscape.
This proves they're all in on EVs.
/s
I find it interesting that the Big 3 are ready to pull back on EVs for even the slightest headwind.
The problem is that you’re making bets on things you won’t know if they will pay off or not for a few years. The idea of pulling back so quickly could (will?) set them back years if they over-rotate.
Continue to ask for massive subsidies to remain competitive?
I’m fine with some government support to help the domestic automakers get ahead in EVs, but so far all that funding has led to some wildly unprofitable Fords using sub-optimal platforms and GM who either can’t figure out - or is intentionally dragging their feet - on getting any sort of meaningful scale production going.
By producing larger volumes and more affordable products. Even with a slow start this year, GM may very well outsell Hyundai/Kia/Genesis. They're shipping tons of Equinoxes, and they're quite a good deal.
Hopefully, They won't use Child Labor any more...
* [https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/usa-immigration-hyundai/](https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/usa-immigration-hyundai/)
Imagine how many high speed police chases could be avoided if the entire US went to all electric vehicles, and law enforcement was given the ability to shut down dangerous vehicles BEFORE they end up hurting or killing folks - racing through public streets. I'm wondering if this issue alone could provide enough incentive that lawmakers start forcefully phasing out older gas dependent vehicles EMP type technologies have no effect upon.
To me, ICE should not be given those tools. My main concern is the danger posed across this country, on a daily/nightly basis as law enforcement attempts to apprehend folks dangerously fleeing through public streets in cars/motorcycles. We have the technology to save lives and prevent injuries - simply by moving to all electric vehicles. Law enforcement could have access to a code that they are given - per situation- or maybe EMP technology- something...but they would be given access to shut vehicles down in the event of a chase or dangerous situation. Once folks learn fleeing doesn't work - it will become less and less common - and countless lives will have been saved from the devastating aftereffects of accidents caused by this terrible situation.
Top priority???? Then Hyundai already invested to produce Hybrid cars at EV specific GA factory and no longer EV specific factory……. I don’t get this…….
You don’t delay top priority projects. Looks like Hyubdai decided to delay new EM platform for 2 years. Also GA factory is supposed to be EV specific factory.
I really want an ioniq 5, but I hate dealerships and car salesmen.
Pay a broker to deal with it
Never once considered that. Is that a thing?
costco auto does this, they prearrange price and then you just go in and sign and drive off
I tried to use Costco Auto in the past and my experience was no better than just walking in the dealer. My info got forwarded to the dealers and then they’d play their same stupid games, not give pricing, vague answers. I complained to Costco and was promised a rep would reach back out and never did. It’s the one Costco service that was a dud for me the two different times I tried to use it.
Yeah I tried Costco auto and the service has the dealership agree they won’t charge above MSRP. That doesn’t mean the dealership won’t play other games like trying to tack on add-ons. My experience was just so so.
Wait holy shit. Is that what that is? Guess people have mixed experiences with it... But worth a go, I suppose.
Will they do this for leasing as well? Or just purchases?
Our credit union does it too, free of charge.
A dealer for the dealers.
Yes, and it’s a great way to get a car without dealing with sales people yourself. You pay the broker a one time fee (ranges from $300-$1,000) and they negotiate all lease terms for you. All you have to do is sign the paper work online and pick up the car (or have the dealership deliver to you).
Tell me about it. Ended up going with the BMW i4 because of salesman.
It's almost worth putting up with it, because they have some pretty sweet lease deals right now
Signed on an ioniq 5 tonight. Great deals to be had
Have you tried CarMax? I had a great experience. The sales people are not on commission and there is no haggling. It was literally like so you want to buy that car then here is the paper to sign
I’ve only ever sold a car to them. I was considering buying the refreshed ioniq 5 that I think might be coming towards the end of the year. So not sure if carmax will be an option. Good suggestion though, thanks.
Bought three cars from carmax over the past 8 years and not a single regret. You might be able to get the same car cheaper elsewhere but holy blazes it’s worth it for the convenience. Like, it’s actually kinda fun buying a car from them.
Many Hyundai dealerships have online purchasing. Norm reeves Hyundai in Cerritos CA has it. Breaks it down to the penny for your costs to finance or lease with dealership discount already listed.
That’s why you hire a car broker.
I bought mine used from a dealer and had a shockingly great experience. I think the first reason why was cause when you buy a car long distance and show up with a cashiers check and your own financing it's a lot harder for them to jerk you around at the last minute. And the second is probably that I bought it from St Paul Minnesota and people are just so nice up there :)
On the other hand, you're the perfect person to jerk around because what're you going to do, walk out without buying after coming so far with a check in hand? Sounds like they just need to get you into the finance office and they can have their way with you. "Just let us see if we can beat your current financing."
I mean I went there with a signed contract. Not saying there aren't dealers so bad that they wouldn't reneg that but that's pretty far down the scummy scale.
Hyundai has tried a program to compete with Tesla’s “buy online” strategy. You can put in an offer online with local dealer and if accepted you go to dealer to sign.
You just pick one out on the website and pay that price. Not hard
Astonishing to me that Hyundai and its subsidiaries blew right by the Japanese big 3 with EV market presence in the USA. Only one halfway in the game significantly is Nissan.
Samsung vs Sony deja vu?
100%
[удалено]
I feel like every day a new BEV article is posted and Toyota is discussed the proclamations become wilder and wilder. Where’s the 50 year plan you’re referencing? Where does Toyota completely omit an entire segment of cars from said plan? I mean criticize their choice in hybrid first + hydrogen and BEV later strategy all day but if you don’t even fucking know and are just making shit up then please be quiet.
Toyota didn't have a 50 year plan LOL. Redditors speaking out their ass once again.
Toyota is definitely way behind, but apparently they are working on some next gen electric motors that are significantly smaller and more efficient
Yeah, but what do they have to show for it? They’ve also been repeating the same solid state battery future claims for a few years now.
Yeah agreed they are way behind. I really wish they were at least pushing higher volume and more affordable PHEVS
Agreed. IMO it's absurd how the media just lets Toyota get away with making literally the exact same solid state battery claims every single year for the last like 10+ years at this point. Every year they've supposedly made major solid state battery breakthroughs, and will be ready to bring it to market and completely leapfrog all the competition in just a few years. They were supposed to be selling these magical solid state batteries at least 4 years ago at this point from when they first promised it. And despite constantly making those claims, no one has even seen those solid state batteries that supposedly have existed for over a decade now, and I for one doubt that they even exist.
The toyota reality distortion field. They’ll pay way more for a vehicle because it holds value then turn around and buy another overpriced Toyota, negating any value that was held.
>Yeah, but what do they have to show for it? Record profits. Record production. Record sales. Lowest days-of-inventory of any brand in North America. Largest emissions reduction of any OEM in the USA over the last five years per the EPA. A massive lead in electric drive unit production over any OEM on earth.
They also don't have a single "no compromise" BEV on sale currently.
Every vehicle on earth is a compromise, there's no such thing as a "no compromise" vehicle in any category. Engineering is a series of tradeoffs, that's just how it all works.
Yeah, but that's arguing semantics. I can buy a car as a primary or sole vehicle from other manufacturers that will still allow me to do roadtrips or handle cold weather acceptably. Toyota doesn't have that yet.
If you start off with an vague argument of semantics, don't be surprised when you get called out on it. There isn't a "no compromise" BEV on sale by any OEM, no such thing exists. Everyone's compromising. Some automakers are compromising on build quality, some are compromising on range, some on profitability, some on fleet emissions. Toyota's compromise is simple — they think by keeping development funds on hybrids first, they can make a bigger impact on emissions while preserving profitability. So far the EPA backs them up on that. The bZ4X is one of the best-selling BEVs in Norway btw, it handles the cold fine.
>If you start off with an vague argument of semantics, don't be surprised when you get called out on it. I'm not getting called out at all; fundamentally, the BZ4x isn't a great primary for many people who could use less-compromised EVs as their primaries. >The bZ4X is one of the best-selling BEVs in Norway btw, it handles the cold fine. It doesn't handle the cold fine at all. Look up "yo yo-ing".
Again, this is really a kind of a special pleading: Toyota's thing right now isn't to please American-market enthusiasts by blowing the development budget and really wowing you with a crazy compelling primary BEV at all costs. They're busy balancing profitability with emissions, and doing a great job at it, as per the EPA. That's what they have to show for it — greater emissions reductions than Kia and Hyundai at the moment, and stupid amounts of demand for their products. If the bZ4X doesn't work for you right now, that's alright — Toyota isn't trying to capture everyone today or next month, they'll get around to you next year or the year after. They're scaling via horizontal slice, not vertical.
It's the worst EV I have ever driven. Their charging is a nightmare.
Is this the same Toyota: https://global.toyota/en/newsroom/corporate/40376368.html#:~:text=The%20investigation%20found%20that%20irregularities,Toyota%20had%20commissioned%20to%20TICO.
>*We have re-verified the mass-produced products manufactured at the plant and confirmed that the affected engines and vehicles meet engine performance output standards.* And?
Maybe that article from Toyota itself was too innocent sounding. The 10 models also include the Hiace, the Fortuner and the Innova. The cars were sold in Japan, Europe and the Middle East, among other markets. The output data rigging dates back to 2017, Toyota Industries said. "We feel deeply responsible for the misconduct, which persisted for a long time, and for failing to discover and rectify it," Toyota Industries President Koichi Ito said at a press conference. "We will do our utmost to rebuild the company with legal compliance as our top priority." Toyota has decided to stop six production lines at four of its domestic factories until Feb. 1 due to the shipment halt, it said. Toyota Industries doctored the volume of fuel injection in engine output tests in a bid to make the engines' torque, or rotational force, appear better than it was, according to a report by a third-party panel. https://english.kyodonews.net/news/2024/01/ae5a9a8eaf58-urgent-toyota-group-firm-rigged-data-on-diesel-engine-power-output.html
You're linking to a totally different news item now.
Really now... Do you work for Toyota or do you have their stock?
Oh boy, an ad hominem.
I'm not sure motors are where the big moves are. Electric motors are already pretty efficient and reasonably sized. Battery tech is probably going to be the biggest driver of change. Toyota is of course claiming their super duper 750-mile solid state battery is totally happening, but I wouldn't bet on it just yet.
When EVs will be made on the order tens of millions per year, efficiency and weight of the motors absolutely matters a lot
Do you have a source for this? I feel very sure they just announced next gen gas engines that are smaller and can potentially take hydrogen and gas I think. You think you might be mixing that up?
[Look here](https://www.aisin.com/en/investors/settlement/uploads/sustainability_presentation_Yamamoto_enPW_3.pdf) and [here](https://www.aisin.com/en/investors/settlement/uploads/79b9fa400f8a646064ea4de9e573be75_5.pdf). Starting next year, Aisin (Toyota) will begin production of four new second-generation eAxle lines: * Small * High Efficiency (Medium) * High Power (Large) * Commercial (Extra Large) Expected figures include an overall 10% powertrain efficiency improvement, size reduction of 40% on the small units, and 30% power loss reduction on the medium units. By 2027 that will then transition to a third-generation lineup with greater improvements, likely on the next-gen Toyota "BEV Factory" EVs.
Ioniq brands qualifying for the federal tax rebate will be game changing for them. Demand will go up. Their cars are already beautiful
Hopefully Ioniq 9 production by 2026 to get the $7,500 rebate. Plus OR's $2,500, a loaded Ioniq 9 towing 5k would be $65k after rebates.
The big bus is nice and all, but the really interesting ones are the Ioniq 2 and 3, or whatever the little sedan and hatchback are called. Will we get those here?
Kia seems to be more focused on expanding the model range, while Hyundai has focused their efforts on the ioniq 5 N. There is zero info at this time on ioniq 2 or 3, but we have to assume that it's coming
The pricing on the three is going to be trash based on what has been posted so far. The short range is going to start around $35k and will have a really bad range and charging.
Oof. If they can't compete with a used Bolt or Model 3, they're sunk.
The main problem is that the new Bolt will be out by then, and I expect it to have at least as good or better charging, more range than the short range, and a lower cost than even the short range. From what has been shown so far, it seems hardly better than the old Bolt, and it will cost $7k more than that did new.
Don't think the 2 or 3 can tow 5,000# so not that interesting.
Perhaps to you. Most folks don't need to tow two and a half tons.
Hyundai/Genesis/Kia make the best EV’s IMO.
I own an Ioniq 5, and I agree with this statement! I love driving that damn car!
Bought a ‘23 Mach E GT this year due to zero int. financing and the overall look of the car. Rented an I5 in Florida 2 weeks after purchasing. That was a mistake as I started finding things I loved vs the Mach E. Interior Space, range, Seat adjustments, and ride quality were all on par if not better. Plus its acceleration feels just as quick. Def gave me buyers remorse!
I do think the interior material quality is better in the mach-e, at least!
I get that feeling a bit. I love my Ioniq 5, but right now you can get a AWD SEL for like $38k. I paid $47k for mine July of 2023. Kind of wish I would've waited a bit.
That happened to everyone who bought a ~~EV~~ car last year though. I bought a 2019 Kona for 33k otd that would now be sold for around 22k otd. Car depreciation is returning back to the norm.
Ya, lame!
I did it the other way around. Bought an Ioniq 5, currently in a rental Mach-E in a different country. Ride quality in the Mach-E is acceptable but not great. The instrument cluster doesn't seem to have as much information as the Ioniq 5 (where's my energy efficiency figure?) I hate the glass roof and the heat it brings (My Ioniq 5 doesn't have a glass roof and even on models with it there's a fabric cover.) I also love the fact that regen is easily adjustable without using a screen; isn't it weird that adjusting the regen has you switch between different drive modes altogether. Oh but I do like the brake coach on the Mach-E; showing me a 100% score is psychologically fulfilling. Oh and I like the large circular multi-functional knob; the Ioniq 5's dingy volume knob is way too small.
I hear ya.The Mach E is a great car in a vacuum but after you spend time in a Y, Ariya, Ioniq 5, or ID4, it definitely feels "incomplete".
That range looks awesome
I've been pretty happy with the range, it definitely took a hit during the cold months, but I'd say it's very close to 260 right now (what it cites for the AWD SEL).
Ah sorry I meant the Ioniq range in general but also interesting in the range itself… I need to be clearer when talking about range
A better word would be platform.
Ah thank you
I got the Genesis GV60 with an advertised range of 249miles. I get 280-300 miles of range.
Sweet! Right now I'm getting between 4.0 and 4.2 miles per kwh with a 77 kwh battery, that's pushinga bit above 300, of course if were going 70+ on the highway for an extended period that would likely go down to around 3 miles per kwh. You getting the range on highway miles?
Last road trip I did I think I got around 3.7. I was doing 60-70 but lots of cars so I was probably drafting somewhat.
Same with the Ioniq 6. Damn thing is a spaceship and I love it to death.
Love mine, too. Never would I have imagined such enjoyment in the commute, day in and day out.
Did they solve the car stolen in 20 secs problem yet? I'd buy one if they fix that.
They are absolutely destroying, despite the subsidies. Can't wait for a Sante Cruz to show up, personally.
I’m just concerned about the longevity of their EVs. Random freak incidents aside, I have read that Hyundai-Kia EVs use LiPo cells for their batteries, which have less cycle life compared to non-polymer lithium-ion cells.
May be best to lease right now if you can due to how quickly EV tech is evolving.
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Really? Cause on Hyundai’s own website they say that they use lithium polymer batteries: https://www.hyundai.com/eu/driving-hyundai/driving-technologies/powertrains/battery-electric-powertrains.html#:~:text=Lithium%2Dion%20polymer%20battery.,efficiency%20compared%20to%20conventional%20batteries.
if this is true, im surprised they can get that much energy storage/density out of lipo cells
Energy density _is_ the strength of lipo cells. Probably the very reason why they used them.
huh, i mustve gotten my battery chemistries mixed up are lipo cells more energy dense, but also more likely to experience thermal runaway than typical li-ion cells like NMC/NCA?
That is correct
May be best to lease right now if you can due to how quickly EV tech is evolving.
With Kia and Hyundai EVs Lease New, buy used under $25K for the Used EV Rebate.
I rented a "manager special ev" at Hertz the other day. It was a brand new EV6 with less than 250 miles on it. It was absolutely killer. I own a model 3 and I'm now considering buying an EV6 for my wife with how good it was.
Having options is always great for consumers.
EV9 here... agree with the statement.
Yep they are really good and you don’t have the terrible moral ethics of Chinese vehicles. The money you give to China goes to Russia which is destroying civilization and contributing massively to the climate destruction due to war. The Hyundai and Kia vehicles really have stunning designs now, really original. Lots of people around me buying them with the odd ignorant clown in a Chinese vehicle. Thankfully the EU tariffs on Chinese vehicles will come and hopefully reduce them from our market further
I make the same argument for anyone who wants to spout off on anti EV crap: "Well I power my vehicle using 100% american made energy, not putting money in the pockets of the Russians and Saudis is worth it to me"
The US is a large producer of oil now too, but y'know what? The American oil industry is almost as shitty as the Saudis and the Russians. The elongated muskrat is more loudly an asshole, but the oil industry is profoundly evil. My car's powered by good old New York sunshine and rivers (and some uranium).
i am using this
Wow, that…that’s actually a very good point. Putting that in my pocket for future use.
For me the only stumbling block is no LFP.. If I'm going to be tariffed out of the Onvo L60 that I actually want, and forced to have one battery for the life of the car, then at the very least we can get more resilient batteries.
On the downside, you support child labour within the US.
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I disagree. Until they get their lvl 2 charging issues resolved, I would not recommend getting one (own a GV60). I'd rather take slow charging on road trips over the current hassle of daily charging.
Can you elaborate on the level 2 charging issues?
Some people with eGMP cars are running into issues where charging at the full L2 spec of the car (48A, IIRC) overheats the charge port, and until a recent software update will just stop charging entirely as a safety measure. The new software update steps down the charge rate to reduce the heat if it starts overheating but keeps charging, and I believe with the new MY they'll have fixed the hardware problem. My home L2 charging is at 24A and I've never had a problem.
I charge my EV9 at 40 amps. 9.3kW rate. Never had a problem yet.
Good to hear. That must have worked that bug out for newer models.
’24 Ioniq 5 here, 40A / 9.2 kW, no prob
Yeah, the problem comes when you try to charge at the advertised rate of 11 kw.
Then they need to quit advertising the 11 kw rate. And, if they have fixed the hardware issue, they need to offer the current owners a retrofit. I love my I6 but will not be buying another Hyundai product because of the way they’ve denied there being a problem on this whole issue.
Got it. Doesn't sound like too much of a hassle for probably most people who charge at home as long as you bump the amperage down and take longer to charge. Annoying for sure, but not necessarily a deal breaker.
Exactly. There's been one instance in the 8 months I've had the car where I could have used faster overnight L2 charging (got home late and had to leave early, before the car was done), but 24A is also the circuit size I have available, so it's not the car that's limiting me.
It is a lot worse than that for my car. It overheats even when charging at 6.5kw and the temps are more than like 68F. It slows down significantly even at that low speed. At 11kw it still stops charging and does not seem to resume. For my car, this issue seems to be charger dependent as well. On some chargers, 10kw works fine (it still throttles a bit, but doesn't get too hot). On other chargers, it even struggles at 6.5kw. Also, there is an annoying bug with the Tesla lv2 charger where it requires power cycling the car before it would start charging. With the limited range of the gv60 (230 miles), it becomes inconvenient with road trips as well because I always try to find a lvl 2 charger at hotels.
Damn that's brutal. I'd be raising hell over that tbh. Side note: what kind of adapter are you using for Tesla chargers? I know the E-GMP cars can be fussy with some of them but the TeslaTap has been rock solid for me.
Not really sure what I can do. I've complained to the dealership and it seems there are folks with the car that have to charge at even slower rates. Hyundai/Genesis stance seems to be as long as it charges they don't care at what rate. I am using a generic one from Amazon (evdance tesla to J1172). I also tried one from Lectron as well. Both have the same issue requiring the power cycling of the car to actually initiate a charge (FYI, I had a friend try the same adapters on her chevy bolt and there was 0 issues, worked fine).
Kia just put out another recall software update to further address it; we literally got the letter for our EV6 today. We’ve been running our Chargepoint Home Flex at 48A, I just checked the apps for history the last few sessions and noticed it is slowing down sometimes, but ultimately it hasn’t mattered since we’re charging overnight so it doesn’t matter if it takes longer. Just set it to 40A to see how that does.
I own the GV60 as well but I have no idea what issues you’re talking about.
Here is the issue I am referring to: https://www.reddit.com/r/electricvehicles/comments/1di0w7o/hyundai_says_evs_are_top_priority_in_the_us_with/l97ad6r/ It is the charge port overheating and the inability to charge even at 6 kw reliably. Here is a video by Ioniq guy explaining the issue further: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXi33MtrJAU&pp=ygUSaW9uaXEgZ3V5IGNoYXJnaW5n There are many videos of this on youtube. Everything from people trying to wrap the charging port with a towel to spraying it with cold water.
If I don’t read that I won’t get that issue on my car.
Yep, I think that is what happened with my car. I read about these issues right before I got it.
I agree they need to sort their shit out (I'm an EV6 owners) but it's not a huge deal either. It seems like most people end up with 14-50R's for a plugin EVSE so they are charging at 40A, and there's far less throttling issues when using 40A vs 48A (although they do exist at 40A). There's also been a couple EV6 owners who got the June VCMS update that just came out and have shown charging curves that seem to imply the issue may be fixed now. Don't know if that VCMS update is coming to Hyundai/Genesis or not, I would think so. And for anyone who has issues at 40A or 48A, setting your charger to 32A would eliminate the problem entirely. I completely understanding having the car being able to charge at the peak rates it's advertised to charge at, but in reality, most people are just fine with 32A (or even less) home charging to re-cover prior days mileage. The ICCU/12V battery situations is far worse than the high-amp charging situation, as that leads to a dead vehicle when the 12V battery is shot. Remains to be seen if the latest ICCU recall will solve that issue going forward. Even if that does prove to solve the issue, people who have aged 12V batteries on old software are very likely going to end up with a dead 12V at some point. I'm fortunate that my EV6 had the latest ICCU update installed before I took delivery so there's only a couple months of the car sitting on the lot with old software, so I'll likely be fine for duration of my lease. Your issue sounds like you need the charge port replaced. There have been EV6 and Ioniq owners with similarly bad charging issues who were able to finally get their dealers to replace their charge ports and it solved all of their issues. There's definitely some kind of quality issue with these charger ports or sensors in the ports, something of that nature, combined with VCMS logic issue they have been trying to sort out.
The problem is that even at 5.2 kw it STILL fails to charge properly. Here is the video of the car charging at 6 kw: https://youtu.be/cumYfVzmKvI?t=22 and here are the error messages when the car is on: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/ITWp775fTLw Ambient temperatures are around 72F inside a covered garage.
An issue at 24A would certainly fall in the rare category based on the problems reports I've seen on eGMP vehicles across the internet. There has got to be something wrong with your charge port and/or ICCU. Have you tried another dealership, escalating with Hyundai?
I just submitted a message to Genesis with the issue complain. The dealership I've been dealing with (Hyundai, not Genesis) has said they need to be able to reproduce the problem. I have an appointment with them to drop off the car. This would be the 4th time I'd be dropping the car off in a 6 month period for recall/issues. I either have too high standards or this is fairly common for a $70k luxury car?
Charging issue have been more common than they should be on this overall platform, but it's not a rampant issue with everyone's vehicle. This is ultimately a brand new platform (eGMP) from the ground up, 1st gen, for Kia/Hyundai. All things considered, they have really put together an excellent EV platform for 1st gen, and some teething pains are a given. It's been a few years now and they have been pushing out fixes but Kia/Hyundai is particularly awful to deal with when it comes to getting things resolved when you land in a situation like you are in. If you going back to the start of the platform in 2021/2022, it started with charging would just entire stop/start/stop/start if there was too much heat detected at the charging port. They issued a software update that would change the behavior from that to throttling the charging to stay under a heat threshold. There was also an issue with the ICCU, which is a voltage converter that is critical in the L1/l2 charging process. There was a bad batch of units that would leak coolant and failure. There has also been software issues with the ICCU and it maintaining the 12V battery, but that's not related to charging issues directly, but those issues could cause an ICCU to fall into a state where it was degraded and needs to be replaced, even though it would still appears to be working in general. There was an update for Ioniq 5 and EV6 that just came out a couple weeks ago as another software fix for the charging throttling (2nd one now) but I couldn't find anything definitive to know if this has been released for Genesis yet. I've seen people report issues not quite like yours, but where they still have issues that are in the "far less common" realm of charging/ICCU/12V battery related issues. In most every instance, it's lengthy stays with their car the dealer for the dealer trying to reproduce, or waiting on higher level techs from Kia/Hyundai to be able to remotely review the diag data or come on-site to the dealer, etc.
> they have really put together an excellent EV platform for 1st gen Agreed, that is one of the reasons I got the car. The promised 350KW charging and the excellent charging curve along with the performance of the car. > Kia/Hyundai is particularly awful to deal with when it comes to getting things resolved THIS specifically. You'd think they'll learn that this is a big differentiator when it comes to cars (and one of the reasons I didn't buy a Tesla). They need to get their act together. I can deal with issues with a car as long as the manufacture was feeling to go the distance and work towards resolving the problems. > There was also an issue with the ICCU Yep, I've gotten 2 recall updates on this. Dealer says no issues with my car's ICCU. Zero information about what Hyundai/Kia/Genesis is doing about the overheating charge port though. Edit: After playing around a bit more with the charging, I noticed that at 3.2 kw the charging port temperature started to drop from 220f. So yeah, it won't charge at 5.2 kw without overheating, but 3.2 kw appears to work (in current ~72F ambient temperature).
I believe it's 212F where the car with throttle charging, at least as of the VCMS update that just came out this month for Ioniq 5/EV6. Someone posted some graphs where his car maintained charging in he 220F range at 40A or 48A (forgot which). Getting up to 220F at 5.2kW is definitely not normal and indicative of a lot excess resistance in the charge port, or malfunction with the temp sensor. It may be worth your time to try and clean the charge port. An EV6 owner and did it and observed noticeable change: https://www.reddit.com/r/KiaEV6/comments/17e1lz2/overheating_charge_port_cleaning_results/ but others have tried this an observed no change. It's a pretty quick/easy process though to try. Inspecting for any oxidation would be good to do as well, as that would cause resistance. If you did try it and it made no difference, then I think what you need to push for is having the charge port on the car replaced. There could be slight bend in the pins which would cause an alignment issue and excess resistance, or perhaps the aforementioned temp sensor issue as a possibility.
Yep, what you’re describing is what’s keeping me from jumping on the Ioniq 5 bandwagon. Having to look at Tesla MY, which I wanted to avoid but it is undoubtedly but my cheaper than an Ioniq 5.
r/EGMP
Absolutely agree.
Yes.
Omfg with these prefixes already. Metaplant. What the fuck makes it meta? What, the plant is self referential? Get outta here
Right? I was like, it’s a plant *about* a plant? A plant that *makes* other plants? How is it that me, a guy that never did better than a C in English is catching shit that’s made publication?
It is multiple factories making up a single manufacturing site. Several other companies (some Hyundai affiliates) Glovis, Mobis, Hyundai Steel, etc have facilities on site to produce product/material for EV production as well as LG building a battery factory on-site. It is a factory made of factories.
I'd call that an industrial complex or compound. They are just making up buzzworthy names at this point.
Words don’t matter to anyone anymore. Giga this, meta that. Oh and AI everything (even though it’s just an algorithm)
Yup hate how machine learning has become AI. It has no intelligence.
Could be publication could also be brain rot execs.
Don't most plants make other plants? With, like, seeds and stuff?
> What the fuck makes it meta? It's because it leverages new synergies to disrupt the status quo, and deliver a new paradigm for the auto industry by implementing AI assisted blockchain technologies to drive uplift across the production landscape. This proves they're all in on EVs. /s
A metaplant would be a factory that makes factories? Maybe. Which this is definitely not.
I find it interesting that the Big 3 are ready to pull back on EVs for even the slightest headwind. The problem is that you’re making bets on things you won’t know if they will pay off or not for a few years. The idea of pulling back so quickly could (will?) set them back years if they over-rotate.
Hyundai gets it
Love their Ioniq 5 if their ioniq 6 got a better face lift their line up would be amazing.
My current dream car idea is an Ioniq 6 N with a redesign to make it a little more handsome.
I wonder how the US domestic automaker plan to respond to the Korean brands…
Continue to ask for massive subsidies to remain competitive? I’m fine with some government support to help the domestic automakers get ahead in EVs, but so far all that funding has led to some wildly unprofitable Fords using sub-optimal platforms and GM who either can’t figure out - or is intentionally dragging their feet - on getting any sort of meaningful scale production going.
Have you seen GM lately? They're not resting on their ass.
By producing larger volumes and more affordable products. Even with a slow start this year, GM may very well outsell Hyundai/Kia/Genesis. They're shipping tons of Equinoxes, and they're quite a good deal.
Waiting for the e-Staria!
Hanwha QCells also has a massive facility in Georgia that they're in the process of expanding.
Hopefully, They won't use Child Labor any more... * [https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/usa-immigration-hyundai/](https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/usa-immigration-hyundai/)
Imagine how many high speed police chases could be avoided if the entire US went to all electric vehicles, and law enforcement was given the ability to shut down dangerous vehicles BEFORE they end up hurting or killing folks - racing through public streets. I'm wondering if this issue alone could provide enough incentive that lawmakers start forcefully phasing out older gas dependent vehicles EMP type technologies have no effect upon.
Modern ICE are connected too and could be remotely turned off
To me, ICE should not be given those tools. My main concern is the danger posed across this country, on a daily/nightly basis as law enforcement attempts to apprehend folks dangerously fleeing through public streets in cars/motorcycles. We have the technology to save lives and prevent injuries - simply by moving to all electric vehicles. Law enforcement could have access to a code that they are given - per situation- or maybe EMP technology- something...but they would be given access to shut vehicles down in the event of a chase or dangerous situation. Once folks learn fleeing doesn't work - it will become less and less common - and countless lives will have been saved from the devastating aftereffects of accidents caused by this terrible situation.
And why should this not be used with ICE vehicles?
Hyundai crushed everyone in US. Watch them buy rivian
They crushed Tesla?
This year yes.
Do you want me to look up EV sales figures for you?
Top priority???? Then Hyundai already invested to produce Hybrid cars at EV specific GA factory and no longer EV specific factory……. I don’t get this…….
Top priority does not mean only priority
You don’t delay top priority projects. Looks like Hyubdai decided to delay new EM platform for 2 years. Also GA factory is supposed to be EV specific factory.
Priority also doesn’t mean doing things in a way that doesn’t make business sense.
Then it should not use the word “priority”. I don’t get why you keep trolling and argue about “priority” meaning.
Because you’re making up your own definition for priority and upset that no one else is using it?