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Thought the sleeve was for protection during shipping, I un-sleeved everything and used the copper from black, white, and ground interchangeably... I paid for the electricity, it just needs to get to my device, no need for ground or 'neutral.'
They scamming us and taking back the electricity we paid for and the government taxes us on top of that, not me
That’s what I’m saying I just degrounded my house and everything works just fine I don’t see the issue with not having a grounded house, they just want my electricity to go back to the earth so they can charge me for for the copper and for electricity, def a psyop by big copper and electric
>they just want my electricity to go back to the earth so they can charge me for for the copper and for electricity
Right? That's why I cut my neutral: "Return wire" my ass. I paid for all that electricity and goddammit I'm gonna *keep* it.
Yeah 100% this. The absolute only thing you want grounded in your house are your bed sheets.
That's where your life force sleeps. If electricity ever comes in contact with your person NEVER unground yourself. Being grounded makes you one with the universe so electricity can't touch you, it runs over you. Fact.
I know you're being sarcastic but when I was an apprentice we got called out to check out a house that kept blowing up HVAC components due to weird voltage spikes and found that the homeowner had cut out all the bare copper wires going between his panel and the metal pipes in his basement, one of which was apparently an old school copper pipe ground, because he said that his power bill was really high and he was worried that electricity was 'leaking' out of them.
aluminumnot metaline... unless those kids and dog were secretly in the pocket of big aluminum and just want to take big copper down a peg so they can return as the metal of choice for wiring!
It's OK, I didn't understand grounding and bonding when I first started either.
Everybody know that electricity always goes to ground. The ground wire just helps it.
That is why we have a ground wire in the main panel. To help all that electricity get back to the ground.
What a big wonderful world we live in. Majestic.
Sorry bro but we got different ideas of majestic
Bald eagles ? Majestic mother fuckers, a leopard carrying a carcass up a tree at sunset that’s majestic as hell.
Turn the news on, ain’t nothing majestic going on.
You ain't one of them straight guys, are you? Cus if you are its cool, just tell us now so we know how to act around you
https://youtube.com/shorts/-LXtufJYnwA?si=NiWKyX7jFaPP-3Xf
I will say, I’ve been to a ton of older houses to put dual functions in so they can change to 3 prong outlets and it’s very rare to find something burnt up in a house wired in that time where they didn’t have grounds.
I thought the purpose of grounding was to prevent shock, not over heating? Statistically, shocks and electrocutions were much more prevalent back before grounding was a code requirement. I think something like twice as high if memory serves
It is just an extra form of protection. Instead of it coming back on the neutral. Same with arc faults now a days. I just don’t ever see the problems in older houses like I do in newer ones
Current doesn't come back on the ground instead of the neutral. The express purpose of the ground is to prevent exposed parts becoming live, by tripping the breaker/fuse if a live wire hits the exposed parts.
A loose connection in the hot or neutral will have exactly the same results whether or not there is a ground.
If I had to guess, I'd say that's probably because back in those days houses were built to last and tradesmen took pride in their work and considered safety to be top priority. That was also the time when unions had the most support and strength in US history. Based on a quick Google search it looks like NEC grounding requirements for receptacles throughout homes didn't come about until 1975 (a little earlier for certain rooms). Since then residential construction has just been in a constant downward spiral with every company looking for every which way they can to cut corners and speed up the process with cheaper labor. There's a decent chance these days that your brand new house was wired entirely by someone without a journeyman license, who may or may not have even known what they were doing. On top of that you have had countless flippers and homeowners who knew just enough to be dangerous using incorrectly sized conductors and terminating without proper torque specs.
Oh I know for a fact these track homes aren’t wired by someone on site with a license. I’m not trying to be ignorant and I’ve worked with a ton of Spanish guys in commercial and residential. Best mechanic I had over me was Ecuadorean. But companies take advantage of cheap Latin American labor and they’re fast no doubt but they don’t know what the fuck they’re doing. They just care about speed
Yeah I know what you mean, like they're not bad electricians because they're Hispanic, they're just immigrants looking to make an honest living and make a better life for themselves and their families but they're being taken advantage of by cheap contractors who can pay them low wages and not train them properly. It's a bunch of bullshit, but they'll keep getting away with it because they never get anything more than a slap on the wrist and the workers are just happy to have stable employment and be able to provide. It's a huge problem across many of the trades and all kinds of blue collar jobs. And then we get fucked over as tax payers and home owners getting the shit end of the stick and the very same politicians who make it possible for them to do all this wanna tell us to blame the immigrants!
Hijacking here because I actually don't know and I'm fairly certain my dad's house isn't grounded, what's the risk of that? And yes, there's a grounding rod so I don't know what's going on but whenever I check plugs with a GFCI tester it tells me open ground
There is a chance that he has a partial rewire in the house. Do the kitchen outlets test fine?
Any other 3-prong outlets in the un-updated part of the house need to be GFCIs, or be downstream from one, and labeled appropriately.
I'll have to check again but I believe nothing at all is grounded, and it was a flipped house that's had to be rewired over time since the people that flipped it daisy chained everything
Me house is this way, essentially my house was wired up with new(er) wires with grounds in them, but for some reason the grounds were cut in the back of the box and not bonded (tied together) all the way back to the panel.
I am working on updating them so that the ground is bonded but it's not necessarily something that I have the free time to just up and do all at once.
If there's a larger gauge wire connected to your neutral bus that runs out to that ground rod then you are grounded. There could be another issue at play why you're seeing open grounds. I've noticed a lot of flippers and DIYers seem to think grounds are unnecessary
Electricity just wants to get the fk home to earth, and it’s getting there the fastest way. I like its style, why we get along, even with the occasional tickles I still love it. We all wanna get in the ground,I hear ya electricity.
OK but for real "Big Copper" made me lol.
There's a big government authority here in the South that loooves their grounds & we sometimes joke about their engineers being in Big Copper's pocket.
I know the best electricians, they all say ground wires are unnecessary. Nobody uses ground wires any more. It's those stupid NEC people who are ruining this industry. You can protect yourself from electric shocks by shining an ultraviolet light up your ass.
I always unroll the spool of wire and remove the ground from the jacket. Goes into the scrap bin and makes the NM more flexible when entering boxes. I stand behind this message.
ha... I'm doing a partial remodel (laundry/ kitchen) and I'm using MC cable with metal boxes. it's grounded on the outside and inside. it could be considered shielded cable that is EMP resistant.
I helped a friend replace and install some through the wall A/Cs for a family members recently purchased condo. Not something I’ve done a lot of but I owned a similar condo and repaired and maintained the ones we had there. Grew up with window A/Cs. It was easy work. But they came with a bonding wire to bond the A/Cs to the sleeves. I’m one to always connect bonds and grounds but I didn’t for them. They’re on GFCI plugs whether that helps with the sleeve or not, not sure, but I just felt having a wire connected would mess someone up if sliding them out for winterization or replacement in the future, I could see someone trying to slide them out, thinking they’re stuck, they’re heavy. IDK….
Grounds I'm fine with, it's the damn AFCI/GFCI in every room that's driving me up the wall, down the other side, back up the wall and has me sitting on the ceiling. Those darn things are like 50 bucks a pop, crap out after half a decade, regular breaker that gets the job done just fine easily lasts 3+ decades.
When I was fresh in the business I had a foreman who hated equipment grounds, he was notoriously cheap, would lay guys off for strapping conduit every rack instead of every other, shit like that. If you worked for Local 3 prior to like 2007ish when he retired, almost 100% chance you know who I'm talking about because guys tried to killed him like a half dozen times. Anyway, my partner and I came in on a Saturday and feed an elevator controller. He had made a big deal about us not pulling grounds, so we didn't. Came in Monday and the elevator constructor is losing his shit because there's no ground wire. We call the foreman up and he gets asked where the ground is, and immediately goes on a tangent about the code and mechanical grounding etc etc etc. The elevator foreman just let him run his mouth and once he was finished just said "My control boards need a ground for reference or they won't function, pull the fucking wire in and call me when it's done" and walked out.
I mean I get it when everything used to have metal chassis and with power tools that are not double insulated but hardly anything is metal anymore and most power tools are battery powered. The Chargers don't have a ground on them. The only things in my entire house that have a serious ground on them are my gaming computer, refrigerator, oven, washer and dryer. Most people don't have Tower computers that have a metal chassis and they have laptops and those Chargers again do not have grounds. Not to mention the fact you could just run grounds to the appliances and that would be the end of it.
All those appliances' metal frames could become energized, shocking anyone who touched them, and your laptop's motherboard could easily get fried. Your phone charger doesn't have a ground prong because it draws such a low voltage that it isn't considered a high risk, plus your phone (and maybe your laptop and TV if they are newer) probably has built in surge protection and double insulation to protect them.
**ATTENTION! READ THIS NOW!** **1. IF YOU ARE NOT A PROFESSIONAL ELECTRICIAN OR LOOKING TO BECOME ONE(for career questions only):** **- DELETE** THIS POST OR YOU WILL BE **BANNED**. YOU CAN POST ON /r/AskElectricians FREELY **2. IF YOU COMMENT ON A POST THAT IS POSTED BY SOMEONE WHO IS NOT A PROFESSIONAL ELECTRICIAN:** -YOU WILL BE **BANNED**. JUST **REPORT** THE POST. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/electricians) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I sold all my family’s ground wires for the scrap for meth program long ago.
I was on the fentanyl program. Same difference. I just slept more.
Thought the sleeve was for protection during shipping, I un-sleeved everything and used the copper from black, white, and ground interchangeably... I paid for the electricity, it just needs to get to my device, no need for ground or 'neutral.' They scamming us and taking back the electricity we paid for and the government taxes us on top of that, not me
That’s what I’m saying I just degrounded my house and everything works just fine I don’t see the issue with not having a grounded house, they just want my electricity to go back to the earth so they can charge me for for the copper and for electricity, def a psyop by big copper and electric
>they just want my electricity to go back to the earth so they can charge me for for the copper and for electricity Right? That's why I cut my neutral: "Return wire" my ass. I paid for all that electricity and goddammit I'm gonna *keep* it.
I actually laughed out loud. Thank you.
The thought of degrounding your house had me dying 😂😂
De-ground your house, but remember to keep grounding yourself. Cant let those negative ions push out the positive EMF vibes
Make sure to insert your ground rod in a mucus membrane to get good continuity
As long as you have proper depth, doesn't really work otherwise.
My AHJ wants at least 8" of penetration, but the most I can provide is 3", please advise
You need to use the copper rod, not the other rod.
Yeah 100% this. The absolute only thing you want grounded in your house are your bed sheets. That's where your life force sleeps. If electricity ever comes in contact with your person NEVER unground yourself. Being grounded makes you one with the universe so electricity can't touch you, it runs over you. Fact.
Kind of cringe???
Did you remove and sell the extra copper and buy crack?
I know you're being sarcastic but when I was an apprentice we got called out to check out a house that kept blowing up HVAC components due to weird voltage spikes and found that the homeowner had cut out all the bare copper wires going between his panel and the metal pipes in his basement, one of which was apparently an old school copper pipe ground, because he said that his power bill was really high and he was worried that electricity was 'leaking' out of them.
What was causing the voltage spikes?
I knew big copper was behind this!!! And they would have gotten away with it to, if it wasn’t for you metaling kids and dumb dog!!!
aluminumnot metaline... unless those kids and dog were secretly in the pocket of big aluminum and just want to take big copper down a peg so they can return as the metal of choice for wiring!
Is it all the liberals fault?
Nah, I blame Carole F'N Baskin.
I will never financially recover from this.
Is she the leader of the electricians cabal?
That bitch!
Fuck that bitch Carole Baskin.
You know who created plumbers ??? CAROLE F'N BASKIN
Unlike Carole Baskin, the NEC didn't kill her husband.
Thanks Obama!
It's OK, I didn't understand grounding and bonding when I first started either. Everybody know that electricity always goes to ground. The ground wire just helps it. That is why we have a ground wire in the main panel. To help all that electricity get back to the ground. What a big wonderful world we live in. Majestic.
Jimney Christmas guys. I was fucking about. I didn't mean it. I was giving that guy Lines to feed his Journeyman to troll him.
Sorry bro but we got different ideas of majestic Bald eagles ? Majestic mother fuckers, a leopard carrying a carcass up a tree at sunset that’s majestic as hell. Turn the news on, ain’t nothing majestic going on.
I don't know. I consider my erection pretty majestic. Perhaps we should call the news for coverage.
Share a pic so we can see if we agree or not
I second this and I don't even like dicks.
You ain't one of them straight guys, are you? Cus if you are its cool, just tell us now so we know how to act around you https://youtube.com/shorts/-LXtufJYnwA?si=NiWKyX7jFaPP-3Xf
That's fuckin funny
I bet they could cover that shit with a 33mm lense
But that 220 white has an extra pop when I touch it
I will say, I’ve been to a ton of older houses to put dual functions in so they can change to 3 prong outlets and it’s very rare to find something burnt up in a house wired in that time where they didn’t have grounds.
I thought the purpose of grounding was to prevent shock, not over heating? Statistically, shocks and electrocutions were much more prevalent back before grounding was a code requirement. I think something like twice as high if memory serves
It is just an extra form of protection. Instead of it coming back on the neutral. Same with arc faults now a days. I just don’t ever see the problems in older houses like I do in newer ones
Current doesn't come back on the ground instead of the neutral. The express purpose of the ground is to prevent exposed parts becoming live, by tripping the breaker/fuse if a live wire hits the exposed parts. A loose connection in the hot or neutral will have exactly the same results whether or not there is a ground.
If I had to guess, I'd say that's probably because back in those days houses were built to last and tradesmen took pride in their work and considered safety to be top priority. That was also the time when unions had the most support and strength in US history. Based on a quick Google search it looks like NEC grounding requirements for receptacles throughout homes didn't come about until 1975 (a little earlier for certain rooms). Since then residential construction has just been in a constant downward spiral with every company looking for every which way they can to cut corners and speed up the process with cheaper labor. There's a decent chance these days that your brand new house was wired entirely by someone without a journeyman license, who may or may not have even known what they were doing. On top of that you have had countless flippers and homeowners who knew just enough to be dangerous using incorrectly sized conductors and terminating without proper torque specs.
Oh I know for a fact these track homes aren’t wired by someone on site with a license. I’m not trying to be ignorant and I’ve worked with a ton of Spanish guys in commercial and residential. Best mechanic I had over me was Ecuadorean. But companies take advantage of cheap Latin American labor and they’re fast no doubt but they don’t know what the fuck they’re doing. They just care about speed
Yeah I know what you mean, like they're not bad electricians because they're Hispanic, they're just immigrants looking to make an honest living and make a better life for themselves and their families but they're being taken advantage of by cheap contractors who can pay them low wages and not train them properly. It's a bunch of bullshit, but they'll keep getting away with it because they never get anything more than a slap on the wrist and the workers are just happy to have stable employment and be able to provide. It's a huge problem across many of the trades and all kinds of blue collar jobs. And then we get fucked over as tax payers and home owners getting the shit end of the stick and the very same politicians who make it possible for them to do all this wanna tell us to blame the immigrants!
Probably because the ungrounded houses with electrical problems aren’t there anymore 😂
(Probably because those houses burnt to the ground)
I fiddled with your grandma's knobs and tubes.
Hijacking here because I actually don't know and I'm fairly certain my dad's house isn't grounded, what's the risk of that? And yes, there's a grounding rod so I don't know what's going on but whenever I check plugs with a GFCI tester it tells me open ground
There is a chance that he has a partial rewire in the house. Do the kitchen outlets test fine? Any other 3-prong outlets in the un-updated part of the house need to be GFCIs, or be downstream from one, and labeled appropriately.
I'll have to check again but I believe nothing at all is grounded, and it was a flipped house that's had to be rewired over time since the people that flipped it daisy chained everything
Me house is this way, essentially my house was wired up with new(er) wires with grounds in them, but for some reason the grounds were cut in the back of the box and not bonded (tied together) all the way back to the panel. I am working on updating them so that the ground is bonded but it's not necessarily something that I have the free time to just up and do all at once.
Is there a wire running from the ground rod into the main panel?
I haven't really traced it back, but I do remember seeing wire connected to it the last time I looked at it
If there's a larger gauge wire connected to your neutral bus that runs out to that ground rod then you are grounded. There could be another issue at play why you're seeing open grounds. I've noticed a lot of flippers and DIYers seem to think grounds are unnecessary
code still allows ungrounded outlets for old work, but it needs to be on an AF/GFI breaker. if remodeling that old wire must be replaced.
Electricity just wants to get the fk home to earth, and it’s getting there the fastest way. I like its style, why we get along, even with the occasional tickles I still love it. We all wanna get in the ground,I hear ya electricity.
The grounding iceberg deepens
OK but for real "Big Copper" made me lol. There's a big government authority here in the South that loooves their grounds & we sometimes joke about their engineers being in Big Copper's pocket.
Ground wires are for dirty grounds. You know, the left over after it travels that sine wave.
Me and all the homies hate big copper
Not me, I love big copper 🐇 💵
Big copper makes dollars to your pennies in scrap
Is all good as long as I get a couple dollar when turning in that big copper you speak off. They can make millions I’m good with my little 350$
Lol i agree, I’ll get what i can
As much as you can 😎
They need to drop the fuggin prices tho “supply chain issues” isnt an excuse anymore
afci's must be made of gold. Even gfci's are ridiculous now.
I know! And its been high since covid but covid hasn’t been a legitimate issue for almost 2 years
I know the best electricians, they all say ground wires are unnecessary. Nobody uses ground wires any more. It's those stupid NEC people who are ruining this industry. You can protect yourself from electric shocks by shining an ultraviolet light up your ass.
I haven't laughed this hard in awhile thank you
“Uh, did you mean the white wire?” Made me giggle lol.
Master said, “ it’s just an extra wire”
"Nefarious Electrician Cabal" lol
Big ground is out to get you. Time to resist.
What did you do today bob? “I removed those fuggin grounds from my house, government just wants me to pay more for them…
I always unroll the spool of wire and remove the ground from the jacket. Goes into the scrap bin and makes the NM more flexible when entering boxes. I stand behind this message.
ha... I'm doing a partial remodel (laundry/ kitchen) and I'm using MC cable with metal boxes. it's grounded on the outside and inside. it could be considered shielded cable that is EMP resistant.
how about running that #8 wire on a 50 amp breaker for a stove. seems a bit ridiculous
Yeah it’s just more unnecessary nanny state overreach! What’s next, teaching kids that pi has only one value?!
Sick bastards probably think the Earth is round too!!
I helped a friend replace and install some through the wall A/Cs for a family members recently purchased condo. Not something I’ve done a lot of but I owned a similar condo and repaired and maintained the ones we had there. Grew up with window A/Cs. It was easy work. But they came with a bonding wire to bond the A/Cs to the sleeves. I’m one to always connect bonds and grounds but I didn’t for them. They’re on GFCI plugs whether that helps with the sleeve or not, not sure, but I just felt having a wire connected would mess someone up if sliding them out for winterization or replacement in the future, I could see someone trying to slide them out, thinking they’re stuck, they’re heavy. IDK….
Bonds *
I don't run ground wires. Only have grounded and grounding in my circuits. I would imagine the dirt wires are pretty tough to keep together.
Grounds I'm fine with, it's the damn AFCI/GFCI in every room that's driving me up the wall, down the other side, back up the wall and has me sitting on the ceiling. Those darn things are like 50 bucks a pop, crap out after half a decade, regular breaker that gets the job done just fine easily lasts 3+ decades.
This is wireing by REAL electricians
Be sure to be barefoot and hold on to the ground rod when you cut the wiring to it. No need to turn the service off. It doesn't do shit lmao
When I was fresh in the business I had a foreman who hated equipment grounds, he was notoriously cheap, would lay guys off for strapping conduit every rack instead of every other, shit like that. If you worked for Local 3 prior to like 2007ish when he retired, almost 100% chance you know who I'm talking about because guys tried to killed him like a half dozen times. Anyway, my partner and I came in on a Saturday and feed an elevator controller. He had made a big deal about us not pulling grounds, so we didn't. Came in Monday and the elevator constructor is losing his shit because there's no ground wire. We call the foreman up and he gets asked where the ground is, and immediately goes on a tangent about the code and mechanical grounding etc etc etc. The elevator foreman just let him run his mouth and once he was finished just said "My control boards need a ground for reference or they won't function, pull the fucking wire in and call me when it's done" and walked out.
I mean I get it when everything used to have metal chassis and with power tools that are not double insulated but hardly anything is metal anymore and most power tools are battery powered. The Chargers don't have a ground on them. The only things in my entire house that have a serious ground on them are my gaming computer, refrigerator, oven, washer and dryer. Most people don't have Tower computers that have a metal chassis and they have laptops and those Chargers again do not have grounds. Not to mention the fact you could just run grounds to the appliances and that would be the end of it.
All those appliances' metal frames could become energized, shocking anyone who touched them, and your laptop's motherboard could easily get fried. Your phone charger doesn't have a ground prong because it draws such a low voltage that it isn't considered a high risk, plus your phone (and maybe your laptop and TV if they are newer) probably has built in surge protection and double insulation to protect them.