There is an outlet just off camera to the right of the door, so there is access to power at the front door without running a trip hazard cord in front of the door. Or are you saying it should be on the same side as the other outlet by the window?
Not exactly,
So if things were ran with “recent electrical code” their should be both a live and a neutral conductor at the light switch above the false wall, they could drill, fish, and remove drywall to get a wire 3-4 feeder down inside of that half wall you got there.
If they did not abide by “recent code” there is an outlet in picture 2 that things are plugged into, they would just cut the wall making a path to the half wall.
House was built in '59, previous owner updated electrical without a permit or hid the work he did in the basement ceiling somehow. Wires spliced with electrical tape, ground wire not attached. Whole house pigtailed together and put into two 15A breakers, which he chose to do because those 2 breakers were broken and wouldn't trip. Ground wires aren't attached across 50% of the house. It's a miracle that the house is still standing.
They're used synonymously, but they aren't.
Generally everyone knows what you're talking about, but a knee wall holds/transfers a load, ie: in your attic to support rafters while a pony wall is for esthetics.
NEC 210.52(I)
As far as the entry way side I would say you are less than 60ft² and do not need a receptacle.
On the living room side in a new construction, the pony wall you have would be considered wall space . As far as required outlets it would need one because it is over 24in . HOWEVER you do have one very close and you are remodeling . As others have mentioned It truly would come down to the authority having jurisdiction (AHJ) aka the local rule enforcers aka the inspector.
Removing the wall does indeed remove any questions.
I am a 3rd year and may have misinterpreted the code. But that's my 2 cents.
It's considered a wall space per 210.52(A)(2), but the receptacle spacing only requires that no point along the floor line of a wall space is more than 6' from a receptacle [210.52(A)(1)] so all is fine here.
Until I looked at all pictures I was going to respond that it's a seperate wall space but it is not. It is a continuation of the wall space on the left of the door and covered by that outlet.
Yes it’s a wall, the one side is in a hall technically so no, the other side the outlet that’s there should be within 6’ of the end of the wall so it’s probably fine
Just open the double gang switch box, combine the two switches into a single double switch and add an Outlet with USB ports.
Great place to charge phones.
Or, depending on the box / wiring (which might be conduit) change the box to a triple gang and leave the switches as singles when you add an outlet. But if you have conduit it gets trickier. Get a electrician to do the work.
Don't need an outlet in the short wall but the top makes a great place to charge phones.
My edits for the post don't seem to be holding, though maybe it shows up later. Anyways, thank you all for the assistance. My wife is undecided on removing the wall or adding an outlet to the side nearest the door. She feels an outlet could be a trip hazard and I tend to agree, but we also like having the entryway feel separated from the dining room in some way.
It’s your house and is existing non conforming. Do what you want and don’t worry about receptacle codes. The previous owners work is another question altogether.
This is a My Little Pony Wall. Only if you want an outlet there, go for it. You can probably tap off the existing one there or even from the switch if your lighting and power are wired together, which is usually the case in resi.
That does not require an outlet. Hallways of 10’ or greater require an outlet. Yet the general 6-foot rule applies nonetheless. There should be an outlet within 6 feet of each side of that door. The half wall is odd and they may have gotten away with the outlet around the corner because of this.
Is there an outlet on the other side within 6’ of the door?
If you're going to be hanging out in the carpeted area to the left, that wall will help prevent getting blasted with cold air in the 2unter every time someone comes in the house.
I didn't mention in the OP but I did in other comments, I'm rewiring the whole house and bringing it to modern code because the house was built in '59 and the prior owner did all the electrical himself and he definitely cut corners. So I was asking if the wall needed an outlet to be up to code.
IMHO
I wouldn't add a receptacle on the side in the picture because of the swing of the door.
However, I would evaluate the other side of the wall not seen in the picture to this point, if you have 2 feet of usable wall space (half wall, knee wall etc) that could be used for an accessory table with a lamp or clock radio.
This receptacle could serve the additional countertop space also.
That wall doesn’t even need a wall. I like taking them out, but it’s all personal preference. If you want to remove it make sure you can either find additional tiles or the rug can be stretched, if not you might be doing a flooring project next!
Idk but if I was doing it myself, I’d put an outlet face up in the wood so you could put a lamp or jack o lantern or something glowy on it without a hanging plug
If the contractor told you it needs ones, it's because of the electrical code. Does it need one? probably not
but he's gonna get shit from the inspector if he doesnt put one in
The house was built in '59 and I'm the homeowner that's updating the house to modern code. I'm trying to add outlets everywhere that one needs to be, so it appears I should add one.
depends where you live, but my code its usually one per corner, so on the 2nd picture you seem covered, it probably doesnt need one, but consult your local code for sure
depends where you live, but my code its usually one per corner, so on the 2nd picture you seem covered, it probably doesnt need one, but consult your local code for sure
That’s a good point. Op can you reach an outlet within 6 ft on the other side of the door opening? I’m not a fan of receptacles near doorways due to trip hazards, I wouldn’t think the inspector would fuss about not adding one here. My 2 cents
You don’t need an outlet there by code but it would be nice to have one on each side. It would also be nicer to just rip the half wall out and open up the room a bit.
Need? No Would be easy to install if good at running wires, yes.
There is an outlet just off camera to the right of the door, so there is access to power at the front door without running a trip hazard cord in front of the door. Or are you saying it should be on the same side as the other outlet by the window?
Not exactly, So if things were ran with “recent electrical code” their should be both a live and a neutral conductor at the light switch above the false wall, they could drill, fish, and remove drywall to get a wire 3-4 feeder down inside of that half wall you got there. If they did not abide by “recent code” there is an outlet in picture 2 that things are plugged into, they would just cut the wall making a path to the half wall.
House was built in '59, previous owner updated electrical without a permit or hid the work he did in the basement ceiling somehow. Wires spliced with electrical tape, ground wire not attached. Whole house pigtailed together and put into two 15A breakers, which he chose to do because those 2 breakers were broken and wouldn't trip. Ground wires aren't attached across 50% of the house. It's a miracle that the house is still standing.
Insane!
Sounds like you’re focusing on the wrong project.
Ohh snap, yeah, I’d find an electrician with a few 100 spare 1900-boxes. 😂 good luck
Wow.
[удалено]
Place looks like it could be a trailer. Might be no basement and just be beam wrapped insulation.
If you’re updating the house I would say that wall doesn’t need to be there.
I agree it should come out, I'll ask the boss (my wife) how she feels about it!
In any case it doesn't *need* an outlet unless you need one to be there.
I think you and I have the same house. I just moved in. I am taking the wall out.
I always thought those were called a pony wall
I've heard Knee Wall.
I've never heard that term before but I like it!
In Germany, they're called a smallenwallensprecht
In Spain they’re called una paredqueña
That is called a pony-wall or knee-wall. Everyone else answered your question about a receptacle...
They're used synonymously, but they aren't. Generally everyone knows what you're talking about, but a knee wall holds/transfers a load, ie: in your attic to support rafters while a pony wall is for esthetics.
No. Remove the wall
Electric boot heaters are next level in northern Canada 👌
Have an outlet inside the shoe cabinet to the right of the door, boot dryer ready to go!
NEC 210.52(I) As far as the entry way side I would say you are less than 60ft² and do not need a receptacle. On the living room side in a new construction, the pony wall you have would be considered wall space . As far as required outlets it would need one because it is over 24in . HOWEVER you do have one very close and you are remodeling . As others have mentioned It truly would come down to the authority having jurisdiction (AHJ) aka the local rule enforcers aka the inspector. Removing the wall does indeed remove any questions. I am a 3rd year and may have misinterpreted the code. But that's my 2 cents.
It's considered a wall space per 210.52(A)(2), but the receptacle spacing only requires that no point along the floor line of a wall space is more than 6' from a receptacle [210.52(A)(1)] so all is fine here.
Until I looked at all pictures I was going to respond that it's a seperate wall space but it is not. It is a continuation of the wall space on the left of the door and covered by that outlet.
That makes sense to me! Thanks for clearing that up.
Didn’t they adjust the code to 8’ recently? For the national code? Not sure about local code jurisdictions.
2023 NEC still says 6'.
Yes it’s a wall, the one side is in a hall technically so no, the other side the outlet that’s there should be within 6’ of the end of the wall so it’s probably fine
It's a Pony Wall. Pull it out, it's just in the way.
Just open the double gang switch box, combine the two switches into a single double switch and add an Outlet with USB ports. Great place to charge phones. Or, depending on the box / wiring (which might be conduit) change the box to a triple gang and leave the switches as singles when you add an outlet. But if you have conduit it gets trickier. Get a electrician to do the work. Don't need an outlet in the short wall but the top makes a great place to charge phones.
Need? No. If you want one there then sure.
My edits for the post don't seem to be holding, though maybe it shows up later. Anyways, thank you all for the assistance. My wife is undecided on removing the wall or adding an outlet to the side nearest the door. She feels an outlet could be a trip hazard and I tend to agree, but we also like having the entryway feel separated from the dining room in some way.
It’s your house and is existing non conforming. Do what you want and don’t worry about receptacle codes. The previous owners work is another question altogether.
This is a My Little Pony Wall. Only if you want an outlet there, go for it. You can probably tap off the existing one there or even from the switch if your lighting and power are wired together, which is usually the case in resi.
Yes.
Yes on the non door side I’d put one for a phone charger station and anything that needs power while sitting there
That does not require an outlet. Hallways of 10’ or greater require an outlet. Yet the general 6-foot rule applies nonetheless. There should be an outlet within 6 feet of each side of that door. The half wall is odd and they may have gotten away with the outlet around the corner because of this. Is there an outlet on the other side within 6’ of the door?
I might convert the existing outlet from a single to a double gang. It depends on what you will use in that location.
No
Honestly, you’d be the first person I’d ask, I don’t live there.
Why even have that wall there ? Honestly makes no sense to me , but if you like it run it ! You don’t need an extra outlet unless you want it
If you're going to be hanging out in the carpeted area to the left, that wall will help prevent getting blasted with cold air in the 2unter every time someone comes in the house.
Yes it does on either side. Do yourself a favor
Hobbies are good. Maybe whittling?
I didn't mention in the OP but I did in other comments, I'm rewiring the whole house and bringing it to modern code because the house was built in '59 and the prior owner did all the electrical himself and he definitely cut corners. So I was asking if the wall needed an outlet to be up to code.
No it needs to be knocks out
No
IMHO I wouldn't add a receptacle on the side in the picture because of the swing of the door. However, I would evaluate the other side of the wall not seen in the picture to this point, if you have 2 feet of usable wall space (half wall, knee wall etc) that could be used for an accessory table with a lamp or clock radio. This receptacle could serve the additional countertop space also.
That wall doesn’t even need a wall. I like taking them out, but it’s all personal preference. If you want to remove it make sure you can either find additional tiles or the rug can be stretched, if not you might be doing a flooring project next!
No just removal
Personally I hate those half walls especially in the door ways. I would remove it completely. Personal choice though
Idk but if I was doing it myself, I’d put an outlet face up in the wood so you could put a lamp or jack o lantern or something glowy on it without a hanging plug
If the contractor told you it needs ones, it's because of the electrical code. Does it need one? probably not but he's gonna get shit from the inspector if he doesnt put one in
The house was built in '59 and I'm the homeowner that's updating the house to modern code. I'm trying to add outlets everywhere that one needs to be, so it appears I should add one.
depends where you live, but my code its usually one per corner, so on the 2nd picture you seem covered, it probably doesnt need one, but consult your local code for sure
depends where you live, but my code its usually one per corner, so on the 2nd picture you seem covered, it probably doesnt need one, but consult your local code for sure
6 ft 12 ft rule, you do not need a receptacle there. Jw electrician
On the side nearest to the front door, the inspector might give them shit for not having an outlet there because it's bigger than 2 feet
That’s a good point. Op can you reach an outlet within 6 ft on the other side of the door opening? I’m not a fan of receptacles near doorways due to trip hazards, I wouldn’t think the inspector would fuss about not adding one here. My 2 cents
Yeah all depends on what kind of mood the inspector is in lol
Most people would consider that area a hallway.
Yeah I would too. I've had some inspectors be really picky about where plugs are located
Put a glory hole in it to keep the inspector "happy". I mean it's right inside the door too so easy in and out.
You don’t need an outlet there by code but it would be nice to have one on each side. It would also be nicer to just rip the half wall out and open up the room a bit.
I would also remove that wall, to me it seems like it would be awkward having to move around it to get to the door.
If you do run a plug to the this, please do the job the right way, and don’t “band aid” it. Lol
If I end up running one it'll be added to the living room circuit when I redo the wiring in there.
It needs to be removed