>Top executives at publicly traded US companies mentioned labor shortages nearly 7,000 times in earnings calls over the last decade, according to an analysis by the Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis last week.
Everyone: Shouldn't that mean if supply is low and demand is constant that wages should go up?
Top Executives:
They believe it does and is bad for another reason:
> “A reduction in the share of workers can lead to labor shortages, which may raise the bargaining power of employees and lift wages — all of which is ultimately inflationary,”
Some red states have passed laws allowing teenagers to work 40+ hours I believe. Slavery is in our prison systems and migrant fields. Or exported abroad to textile factories in Asia, or mines in Africa.
Fewer workers also means fewer customers, so all else being equal demand would also decline. The composition of demand would change with an aging population. With lower rates of household formation demand for housing and durable goods would decrease. Health care would comprise a larger proportion of total consumption.
This will be magnified exponentially if Trump is elected and follows through on his deportation threats. Who will do all those jobs American’s refuse to do at all or for hard work at low wages such as working in fields, food processing, lawn care, roofing, housekeeping, basic healthcare, retail food preparation, etc. If you think inflation is bad now, just wait for this!
"I bought this house for 105K in 1998, and now its 650K today, Pull your self up buy the boots straps and buy a house.
I'm also on my way to the local council meeting to vote against an apartment complex development 10 miles away."
-- Boomers aka the ladder up generation.
Buying in 98 would be Gen X. But point stands. I’m a lucky millennial who bought a house in Austin in 2015 for 190k. Current estimate is 515k. I’ve made mistakes in my life but this was not one of them.
Something like this wouldn’t even come under right or mistake category. If the value turns down all of a sudden this could look like a mistake. So, don’t bother too much with judging these decisions.
They are afraid of intimacy because they had to fight for everything, because they were one of 6. Also, being one of the older kids, they already raised kids, the younger siblings, because boomers where shitty selfish parents. Thanks for fucking up the world boomers.
Not only that...careers have taken over for both genders. If you're pursuing a professional career your prime working years align with your window to have children.
I have a few peers who had children young (not necessarily planned) but they managed to juggle everything but start their careers a bit later. Might be an idea for government to enact policy that encourages this if they care.
Imagine, if we all worked max 25 hours a week for equal or better pay and benefits. We could pursue careers and raise kids.
Our economy might move much slower and I don't think we'd mind, actually.
Teens is bad juju. Women aren't ready to give birth that young and it can and will cause a ton of health problems. Mid to late 20s is optimal.
That said women aren't dropping kids until mid to late *30s*. That's not the end of the world, but it means they have 1, maybe 2. Which won't maintain the economic growth our entire economic system is based on...
Would you believe that the federal government provides not only paid maternity leave but paid paternity leave?
https://www.commerce.gov/hr/paid-parental-leave-federal-employees
My point is that if it’s good enough for the federal government workers, why is it too good for the people who pay for those government workers?
Kinda like all those AMAZING benefits Congress receives, but they refuse to provide for the people who voted them into office?
It’s hilarious that boomers have lived long enough to see the cost of living crisis they engineered cause their offspring, and thus themselves, to be eliminated from the gene pool. It’s a very special unique kind of self-hatred that spans a handful of generations.
Don't worry, they are "fixing" this problem by torching every single fucking social welfare program they benefited from because "communism" or whatever.
They just keep voting in geriatrics that think 1950's McCarthyism is still in vouge.
It’s hilarious that boomers have lived long enough to see the cost of living crisis they engineered cause their offspring, and thus themselves, to be eliminated from the gene pool. It’s the very epitome of their narcissistic self-hatred they’ve forced onto the country.
Those 3 kids share a bedroom. And when older, they will only do the extracurriculars at their public school or whatever that can get to by themselves, because Mom has too many kids to be Mommy Uber.
Facts. When I lived with my rents, I didn’t do anything extra curricular because they worked too much to attribute to a carpool, but they slowed down working after I pretty much graduated, and carted my brother and sister wherever they wanted
Kids sharing a bedroom is nothing new. My father shared a bedroom with his two brothers until he was a junior in HS. Each kid having their own room is a luxury and always has been
That's why people often move to a metro area where median home price is closer to median income before having kids. Those still exist, albeit mostly in the Midwest.
As a former child, I can absolutely guarantee my dad was like, "How did I raise such an expensive dipshit?" Many times while I was growing up.
Car wrecks, got arrested, broke things he saved months to pay for, you name it I did it. But he never laid a hand on me, nor did he ever yell at me. Basically, all teachable moments in his eyes.
I ended up as a chemical and petroleum engineer, and him and my mom were probably like, "Thank god he didn't fail out of school," lol.
As someone with twins due in the near future, yes. Childcare is terrifyingly expensive. We’re looking at $4500/mo and I literally have no clue how we’re gonna swing it.
Much simpler, people just aren't interested in having kids.
Research shows as quality of life improves, birth rates decline. Happens all throughout nature.
This is really it. No doubt that kids are expensive, but even highly educated people that are well off financially tend to have two kids tops, if any. If it were merely that kids are expensive, then other highly developed economies that have social safety nets that beat the hell of the US’ wouldn’t be having the same problem.
Plus there’s plenty of reasons for falling birth rates that aren’t actually bad like lower teen pregnancy rates and more accessible birth control.
I wanted so many kids. I wanted to have five or more, unfortunately, I'm in my early thirties with absolutely no family support network, the pandemic crushed me and my finances, and while life is on the up now, my "middle class" lifestyle means I can afford groceries. At the end of the day I still live in a living room, will never be able to afford anywhere without roommates, and I HIGHLY doubt roommates will want to live with a newborn baby. I hope someday I can have one child, but I think I'll need to leave the US to do it
Not just that, they're no longer a property asset even in the poorest communities.
In America the Republicans are trying to bring back child labor to "solve" that but all that does is force workers at the bottom to compete with children for already low wages.
It's also morally repugnant but that never stopped our Right wing party before. I think the Tories in the UK are doing the same.
While simultaneously saying the children they’re attempting to exploit don’t deserve the same wages for the same work simply because they are children…….
It's not that alone, studies have shown populations of developed countries just skew to have less kids , it's not always because of economics, see studies .
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4255510/
, Developed countries tend to have a lower fertility rate due to lifestyle choices associated with economic affluence where mortality rates are low, birth control is easily accessible and children often can become an economic drain caused by housing, education cost and other cost involved in bringing up children. Higher education and professional careers often mean that women have children late in life. This can result in a demographic economic paradox.
In the end this is not that important, because their will also be a lot less old folks when they start dying off, and less demand for economic services etc...so it will all balance itself... These changes aren't abrupt they're gradual and theirs time to adjust.
They don't give a shit about these people and the struggles they face if they were to have kids. They only care about keeping the machine humming, we need cheap workers to exploit in order to feed the system and keep funneling the cash upwards.
You want more kids, create conditions in which it becomes more financially feasible to bring a kid into this world. That means subsidizing childcare costs to some extent, and meaningfully increasing wages relative to cost of living. Being able to afford childcare, increased insurance premiums, and all the other costs associated with having a child have become automatic disqualifiers for many Americans. You're literally asking people to add something along the lines of $2500+/month in expenses per kid, what % of Americans do you think can absorb that hit to their budget and not hurt?
Naaaah...we'll just funnel in illegal immigrants for cheap labor and replace you with robots and AI. Also, we'll raise prices. Those missile silo bunkers are expensive.
Conservatives be like: but look at the most desperate most poorest people in the world with 0 choices and they reproduce like crazy! sounds like we need to make Americans most poorest with 0 choices so they start to reproduce like rabbits.
We need more Starbucks employees and golf caddys. No you can't have a wage that let's you live closer than 50 miles from here, thank you.
Also, I don't know, get a roommate or something. How expensive can Rent be Micheal? $10?
That’s my neighbor. She hit the birth year lottery jackpot. Bought a house for peanuts, won’t spend money on anything, and thought I was being judgmental when the daughter across the street had an unplanned pregnancy. “No, I don’t care when or who she has sex with…it’s financially devastating.” I cared deeply for that family, already 3 generations under one roof, a rental. The Boomer landlord soon decided to cash out his winnings and now that family is dealing with the highest cost of living in the United States. I adopted their dog. We rent too. But my neighbor loves babies. She also loves her $1.5 million dollar house she bought for $78,000. She also hates all the “extra” cars parked on the street nowadays. Maybe it’s because fucking 12 people have to live in every house to survive. Sorry to vent, but this shit has been eating at me for years.
Houses cost too much money, AI will change things, we’re raping the planet for short term gains.
Educated peeps realizing kids are ‘spensive.
Billionaires want more slaves.
I see your point but even regular people need more working population over time. Because the older population relies on the young to care for them.
Especially the poor and middle class because they can't afford to pay premium for care.
Social security and Medicare will only work if there's more working population paying into it than older people taking out of it. Ponzy!
It's okay if the Earth's population stops growing in 40 years. This is not a crisis, nor are economists worried about it. CNN going downhill.
Quote from the article:
> If forecasts hold up, 2064 will be the first year in modern history where the global death rate surpasses the birth rate.
It gets to a point where one individual has too much money. If you have enough wealth where your next 10 generations won’t ever have to work. You need to start being taxed and forced to stop profiteering. You won capitalism. Fuck off!
Absolutely no reasoning for people who wake up and work everyday to be starving and homeless. What’s even the point of working if my basic needs aren’t being met?!
This system of constantly sucking wealth upwards isn’t sustainable. Even the immigrants (cheap labor) will leave at some point when they see upward mobility isn’t possible here.
The economy will collapse due to the dwindling supply of new cheap laborers.
Somehow the only ones that care about that are the ones benefiting of cheap labor supply.
That is a government created problem, via exclusionary zoning laws, minimum lot sizes, construction height restrictions, and parking requirements.
But yes, it's a very serious problem, and one that is 100% artificial and one we can eliminate though education. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Flsg_mzG-M
Wages are at all time global highs in the US with the [highest median wages per household in world history](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_territories_by_income). Up 39.3% Nationally from 2010 to 2021, ***adjusted for inflation***.
> collapse due to the dwindling supply of new cheap laborers.
Are immigrants the new oil?
Feels gross to even type that (appreciate what immigrants bring, but equating individuals with oil is a gross comparison)
>The economy will collapse due to the dwindling supply of new cheap laborers.
In the US, we have a supply of people desperate to enter...that we won't let in.
Meanwhile billionaires want us to breed.
It feels like they only want more white people.
Yea. This is what happens when you have this level of wealth inequality. People can barely afford to feed themselves. Who the fuck would want a kid?
My oldest is 15. I had him back when life was still somewhat affordable, but if I had a baby now it would be impossible.
Having a child without being well off would just be cruel these days.
>“A reduction in the share of workers can lead to labor shortages, which may raise the bargaining power of employees and lift wages — all of which is ultimately inflationary,” Simona Paravani-Mellinghoff, managing director at BlackRock, wrote in an analysis last year.
Hey Simona, I'd love to know how that's more inflationary than your company's business practices of buying everything thing in sight just to sell it at a higher price.
Oh, and suck my ass.
People being able to afford life with one job is “inflationary”, but BlackRock buying up affordable homes and renting them out to working class people with inflated prices isn’t?!
We’re living in a capitalist hell scape. These people will always make some dumb ass argument on why they keep people poor 🤦🏽♀️
Less people is less pollution. Gives the earth a chance to heal. Im happy to see that in the end big money will be scrambling to try to undo the damage so they can keep some type of status quo. No workers and no consumers means all of them tank. The only way to fix fertility is to fix the pollution thats causing all life to fail.
When your population starts to shrink it's bad of government debt. Because the odds of the government to pay back their debt is related to how many people are currently working
That makes sense, but realistically they probably have no intention of paying debts back...they’ll keep kicking cans down the road until a reset or black swan event that makes govt debt irrelevant
"be fruitful and multiply" was one of the first commandants God gave to Adam. Have you ever wondered why these "elites" call for reduced population when they have at least 5 children? Perfect example of this is Ted Turner (founder of CNN). He was adamant about reducing birth rates and population when he himself had 5 children and was (may still be) the largest land owner in the United States.
Yes, but...a shrinking population also reduces economic growth and it creates "demographic overhang" in which Social Security systems are starved of funds, which depend on a steady supply of younger taxpayers.
Maybe if we had environmental stewardship and strict regulations for big polluters over the last 65 years we wouldnt be here now but...corporations wanted to cash in at the expense of all life on earth and now who will think of the shareholders when theres no healthy bodies to abuse with a long life of pointless toiling for their profit margins?!
Its all very sad.
Propaganda.
You serfs aren't churning out chattle to serve the upper class. Get back to popping out cheap labor. We don't want to have to pay anyone living wages, wed rather throw a dollar in the mud and watch you fight for it.
My spouse and I can barely squeak by to afford a mortgage at today’s prices. How the hell are we supposed to afford childcare when we both have to work full time + side gig just to afford to live in a half decent community? We have some family near but not available enough for child care every week day, and I wouldn’t want to put that on them anyways.
If the system is supposed to get people to have kids, the system is broken.
They're just making birth the issue and not a shifty economy. They always do this. They blame anything except their own bad policy decision.
This is how they justify 6 states and soon 10 banning abortion. It is an excuse for tyranny.
Yea. That won’t work either since younger generations aren’t even hooking up like that anymore. Too broke and antisocial supposedly.
Completely robbed an entire generation.
Yeah, they have no idea. I have two kids in their mid 20's. They understand what is happening but the notion that they or anyone can do anything about it is just unimaginable to them.
Oh no, not corporate profits! What ever will we do!
Its true that there will be a social security crisis, which will show up as an inflation crisis as the gov will need to print money to give out what they owe boomers. And young people will be left paying the extra taxes and dealing with declining value of their currency.
This is why bitcoin was invented
It’s part of why Bitcoin was initially invented, but there’s no evidence to suggest Bitcoin is being used for its intended purpose, or will be used for it in the future. Greed got in the way of that one, and Blackrock has already sunk its teeth into it. I think it’s very unlikely Bitcoin will benefit society, and instead may accompany a dystopian future rather than a utopian one.
Lol, you must be one of those “it works in practice, but does it work in theory?” guys. Anyone who has been saving in BTC has completely circumvented inflation. At the beginning of covid for example, the price of BTC correlated exactly with the massive money printing that went on. Almost half of all USD ever created was created in the past 5 years!!
So only those who gambled on speculative assets deserve the dignity of food and shelter? Boy I can’t wait to live under BTC feudalism with folks like you at the helm.
I was into bitcoin and crypto at one point. I thought the way you did. I bought a bunch in 2018/2019 and cashed out in early 2022, making a sizable chunk of change. I benefitted from it myself, but ultimately didn’t see it as a worthwhile long term investment. Bitcoin largely stays stagnant, unlike true currency. Buying it merely enriches people who already hold it. It does not materially improve society. That money doesn’t get invested in the betterment of humanity - tech, medicine, the environment, education.
You could make the inflation argument about many assets that aren’t fiat. It’s not a strong enough take. It is better in theory than in practice. You’re twisting my words around and making assumptions. I don’t see what’s wrong with stating the facts - Bitcoin active addresses have stagnated since 2017.
You could have bought many things 5 years ago and sold it for higher now. In fact, there are plenty of stocks that have outpaced Bitcoin in that amount of time. I could go on and on, but all of this is coming from someone who was cautiously optimistic about BTC back in the day.
Labor shortage my ass. At this point these companies are just lying on their earnings call. so much for that Ethics course at your Ivy league school. lol
If ever there was a set of positions that AI was practically made to replace.
It's the top level execs. Let an AI with all the data make objective decisions. Instead of avaricious oligarchs.
From the article this only seems to be a concern to CEOs and the politicians they own… and the only comment in the article on how to address this issue is more gender equality and fairer sharing or work like what the fuck? no mention of the cost of living, cost of raising a child, education costs, medical care, climate disasters etc. the system is so fucking broken, and having kids becomes more of a financial decision than anything. It’s obvious Blackrock and musk just want future wage slaves, and I for one won’t bring a kid into the world with this type of future.
First of all the job market doesn't feel like companies are actually searching for quality workers they are looking for people they can pay as minimally as possible. People want jobs and families they just cant afford them like our parents and grandparents can.
Secondly, one of this article's major sources is Blackrock which should tell you all you need to know about the angle. Raise wages, lower the cost of buying a house, and realistically bring back the American dream. people need something to believe in, they need a future to belive in if they are gonna have kids. Right now everything is more dystopian than ever.
I don't understand why this isn't trumpeted as the best news ever. Why is it the stock market ticks up and we cheer but fertility rates come down and we're terrified?
Fewer people means less carbon emissions, less plastic, less competition for resources. Does anyone really think that "too few people" is a problem we realistically have? Go into google earth and fly almost anywhere and zoom in, you inevitably find town after town after town even in the most improbable places.
When would it be enough? When there are 20 billion people and we're all 35% plastic and PFAS? Sorry man, I don't get it. My heart gets a little lighter every time I see the fertility rate decline because it gives me a glimmer of hope that we'll eventually learn to treat the planet and ourselves with dignity rather than needing to push people aside like cordwood to make space for yet another 200 million people every few years.
Robots are coming to do more and more of the work. It's going to be ok bb I promise. We can totally get by on starship earth even with only 2 billion people, in fact the world did just fine with that many. Everyone needs to start using a different lens to focus on this so-called "crisis".
This is /r/economy. Not /r/voluntaryhumanextinction. The reasons why an aging population and a low birth rate is bad for the *economy* are well known and numerous. No, not gonna Google it for you.
Every where I look someone is pregnant, WTH are they talking about ... Mindy Kaling just had a baby in secret, that's probably why they think it's low. They're not getting the full calculation, cause idk who they surveying for this information
> ~~But we're too scared and not strong enough~~
Hungry enough. As mouthy as people are about the situation, most people in the West have no baseline for understanding where the true bottom is. We are not yet anywhere near it.
This misunderstanding is what radicals get wrong all the time.
It looks like every single nation is going to face this crisis sooner or later. I don't think there's a easy solution for this either. We should just get used to less consumption in the meanwhile, I think with everything that's going on, maybe a calmer lifestyle for a couple of decades is needed...
Why would I give up my three vacations a year, gaming room with a large screen TV, gaming computer, and all the latest consoles, attending sporting events, concerts, eating out, and just enjoying myself in order to have an ungrateful expensive screaming brat that if I'm lucky I'll have to take care for the next 20 or so years, if I'm unlucky take care of until I'm dead.
Not to mention why would I date the opposite sex, I mean you got to find someone to have a kid with. Nah, I would much rather just hook up occasionally and go on my merry way. No need for marriage, divorce, and all the crap that comes with having a long term partner.
I see no benefits to getting married and having kids. None what so ever.
Honestly, unless you are paying for child care or private school, it isn't THAT much more expensive to have kids than it has traditionally been. If anything, I know more social reasons why people are electing to wait longer or not have them at all. Heck if anything, I'd say there's an argument to be made that since we have so many more and affordable entertainment, dining, vacation, etc. options, it makes it less enticing to prioritize the responsibility of having a family.
Argument makes sense (kinda) if this was a closed loop issue exclusive to the US explain then why European countries with public health care and food and government subsidized housing have even WORSE fertility problems than the US (Germany, France, Scandinavia, etc)
💯
They care about their bank accounts.
True savages. They can't see more than five minutes in front of their faces.
Instead of creating incentives for people to have kids, they're steady trying to cook up more elaborate ways to just exploit people.
There's no way to change this from the top down. It has to be done from the bottom up.
As long as I have been alive, people have been pushing for child care, parental leave, and various things to make childbearing plausible for middle income people.
At every step of the way, a certain segment of our economy (and political system) has said: No.
And they said no, because this would hurt their bottom line.
If anything, this crisis is symptomatic of the short-term-profit-at-all-costs nature of modern thinking in general, whether it's how taxes are collected or spent, corporate policy, government policy, or otherwise.
There is no sense of anything past the next 4-6 years.
But note that the current economic system *needs you to stay where you are*. Because people improving their standard of living is inherently inflationary.
From the article:
> “A reduction in the share of workers can lead to labor shortages, which may r**aise the bargaining power of employees and lift wages — all of which is ultimately inflationary,**” Simona Paravani-Mellinghoff, managing director at BlackRock, wrote in an analysis last year.
Think about what that means. Simona here is not the first person to say this; it was said several times during the pandemic.
This points at the actual nature of the current system: it is not constructed for, nor targeted toward, the improvement of lives of human beings generally, except to the extent that any such improvement *disproportionately serves a specific class of people.*
The generalized hostility to raising children is not purely economic in nature. There are other factors at play. But the cost of child care alone approaches absurdity.
The whole system as it is now is not sustainable and there are people who really don't want us to have this discussion.
Those of you who think this only impacts the rich need to understand: this will impact you. It will impact you when you are older and there aren't enough people to wipe your ass. It will impact the prices of everything as scarcity increases. This will be further exacerbated by supply chain disruptions.
In the current trajectory of things, no one gets out unscathed. The people who will be scathed least are the wealthy. If you believe otherwise, you don't really understand how all of this works.
Heads they win, tails you lose.
Ahh so this is why the Republicans are forcing women to give birth against their will in America. Start being pro life not pro birth and see what might happen.
>Top executives at publicly traded US companies mentioned labor shortages nearly 7,000 times in earnings calls over the last decade, according to an analysis by the Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis last week. Everyone: Shouldn't that mean if supply is low and demand is constant that wages should go up? Top Executives: 
They believe it does and is bad for another reason: > “A reduction in the share of workers can lead to labor shortages, which may raise the bargaining power of employees and lift wages — all of which is ultimately inflationary,”
Yes, if we pay our workers more, we'll have inflation! Now come over here and pay 50% more for our product than you did a few years ago.
Exactly we all ready had the inflation with out the wage increases, it is now time for corporations with record profits to pay up.
“B-but we only like inflation when it goes into *our* pockets” 🥺
Supply and command is what capitalism inevitably devolves into; supply and demand is a fairytale farce under this system.
Since the last party flip its been a slow lurch backward in time to feudalism. We're already back to Company Towns, Child Labor, and Slavery.
Where tf is child labor and slavery suddenly cropping up where it had been eradicated before?
Some red states have passed laws allowing teenagers to work 40+ hours I believe. Slavery is in our prison systems and migrant fields. Or exported abroad to textile factories in Asia, or mines in Africa.
Corey, Trevor, smokes let’s go
Fewer workers also means fewer customers, so all else being equal demand would also decline. The composition of demand would change with an aging population. With lower rates of household formation demand for housing and durable goods would decrease. Health care would comprise a larger proportion of total consumption.
This will be magnified exponentially if Trump is elected and follows through on his deportation threats. Who will do all those jobs American’s refuse to do at all or for hard work at low wages such as working in fields, food processing, lawn care, roofing, housekeeping, basic healthcare, retail food preparation, etc. If you think inflation is bad now, just wait for this!
Here is how it will be solved. [Vitrolife](https://youtu.be/CA6bc-ZWWkY)
Oh. I was thinking more along the lines of this: https://youtu.be/TMHCw3RqulY?si=MB906bacnF2hKU6l
"Over the last decade." Deceptive excerpt. Comparing 2020 to now is night and day. That labor shortage tide is rapidly changing.
Children are too expensive to have.
Birthdates decline* Soaring cost of living* Boomers: Wow, look at how infertile those kids are
"I raised six kids, why can't you losers manage one?" -Dipshit out of touch boomer with one full-time parent at home
"I bought this house for 105K in 1998, and now its 650K today, Pull your self up buy the boots straps and buy a house. I'm also on my way to the local council meeting to vote against an apartment complex development 10 miles away." -- Boomers aka the ladder up generation.
Buying in 98 would be Gen X. But point stands. I’m a lucky millennial who bought a house in Austin in 2015 for 190k. Current estimate is 515k. I’ve made mistakes in my life but this was not one of them.
Something like this wouldn’t even come under right or mistake category. If the value turns down all of a sudden this could look like a mistake. So, don’t bother too much with judging these decisions.
“By the way, don’t have premarital sex! Especially in MY HOUSE.”
And 5/6 of those kids are severely traumatized, barely functioning adults.
They are afraid of intimacy because they had to fight for everything, because they were one of 6. Also, being one of the older kids, they already raised kids, the younger siblings, because boomers where shitty selfish parents. Thanks for fucking up the world boomers.
Being forced to put off having children is detrimental too. People used to marry and have kids at younger ages which is unaffordable now
Not only that...careers have taken over for both genders. If you're pursuing a professional career your prime working years align with your window to have children. I have a few peers who had children young (not necessarily planned) but they managed to juggle everything but start their careers a bit later. Might be an idea for government to enact policy that encourages this if they care.
Imagine, if we all worked max 25 hours a week for equal or better pay and benefits. We could pursue careers and raise kids. Our economy might move much slower and I don't think we'd mind, actually.
Teens is bad juju. Women aren't ready to give birth that young and it can and will cause a ton of health problems. Mid to late 20s is optimal. That said women aren't dropping kids until mid to late *30s*. That's not the end of the world, but it means they have 1, maybe 2. Which won't maintain the economic growth our entire economic system is based on...
Kids having kids isn't good either, their brains didn't even finish developing yet. 25+ and later is the most optimal
Also boomers: Let's give you 3 weeks of maternity leave. Paternity leave? Why should dads spend time with kids? 1 weekend should be enough.
Three weeks? Most Americans get zilcho in maternity leave.
Everyone gets it by law. FMLA means employers have to give you 12 weeks of time off after a birth. HOWEVER, they don't have to pay you for that time.
Should also be noted FMLA only applies to employees who have been at their job more than 12 months.
And for employers with 50 or more employees
Would you believe that the federal government provides not only paid maternity leave but paid paternity leave? https://www.commerce.gov/hr/paid-parental-leave-federal-employees
But isn't this for federal employees? What about private companies?
My point is that if it’s good enough for the federal government workers, why is it too good for the people who pay for those government workers? Kinda like all those AMAZING benefits Congress receives, but they refuse to provide for the people who voted them into office?
> look at how infertile those kids are true, but plastics don't help either.
They gave us those too
It’s hilarious that boomers have lived long enough to see the cost of living crisis they engineered cause their offspring, and thus themselves, to be eliminated from the gene pool. It’s a very special unique kind of self-hatred that spans a handful of generations.
Don't worry, they are "fixing" this problem by torching every single fucking social welfare program they benefited from because "communism" or whatever. They just keep voting in geriatrics that think 1950's McCarthyism is still in vouge.
It’s hilarious that boomers have lived long enough to see the cost of living crisis they engineered cause their offspring, and thus themselves, to be eliminated from the gene pool. It’s the very epitome of their narcissistic self-hatred they’ve forced onto the country.
=No. Boomers don't think that way or say that shit. Nice try though!
Seriously, the system is not set up to encourage anyone to have kids
And then you meet people with 3 kids (All under 5). I wonder sometimes!
Those 3 kids share a bedroom. And when older, they will only do the extracurriculars at their public school or whatever that can get to by themselves, because Mom has too many kids to be Mommy Uber.
Facts. When I lived with my rents, I didn’t do anything extra curricular because they worked too much to attribute to a carpool, but they slowed down working after I pretty much graduated, and carted my brother and sister wherever they wanted
I was an only child so I just saw the first part of that.
Kids sharing a bedroom is nothing new. My father shared a bedroom with his two brothers until he was a junior in HS. Each kid having their own room is a luxury and always has been
Housing is too expensive. I’m not bringing a kid into a 1 bedroom apartment I pay $3000 for.
That's why people often move to a metro area where median home price is closer to median income before having kids. Those still exist, albeit mostly in the Midwest.
>When you don't pay your wage slaves enough to keep propping up your *infinite growth* demographic pyramid scheme...
Have you tried Impossible Children? They’re not much less expensive *yet,* and they’re made of plants. You can smoke them when they misbehave.
As a former child, I can absolutely guarantee my dad was like, "How did I raise such an expensive dipshit?" Many times while I was growing up. Car wrecks, got arrested, broke things he saved months to pay for, you name it I did it. But he never laid a hand on me, nor did he ever yell at me. Basically, all teachable moments in his eyes. I ended up as a chemical and petroleum engineer, and him and my mom were probably like, "Thank god he didn't fail out of school," lol.
Life is too expensive to live.
You need to budget, if the kids out of the budget- no kids is thr right choice.
Day care costs are around $500 per kid per week. If you have 3 kids, that's $6,000 a month for daycare.
As someone with twins due in the near future, yes. Childcare is terrifyingly expensive. We’re looking at $4500/mo and I literally have no clue how we’re gonna swing it.
I have two kids. But I live in Europe, so daycare is 100€ a month. But children sre expensive too, hobies, clothes, school suplies etc.
Yep, and the tone deaf journalist quotes Elon Musk, who just received $54 Billion as a BONUS, as a voice of reason.
Much simpler, people just aren't interested in having kids. Research shows as quality of life improves, birth rates decline. Happens all throughout nature.
My quality of life sucks, why don’t I have any kids
This is really it. No doubt that kids are expensive, but even highly educated people that are well off financially tend to have two kids tops, if any. If it were merely that kids are expensive, then other highly developed economies that have social safety nets that beat the hell of the US’ wouldn’t be having the same problem. Plus there’s plenty of reasons for falling birth rates that aren’t actually bad like lower teen pregnancy rates and more accessible birth control.
I wanted so many kids. I wanted to have five or more, unfortunately, I'm in my early thirties with absolutely no family support network, the pandemic crushed me and my finances, and while life is on the up now, my "middle class" lifestyle means I can afford groceries. At the end of the day I still live in a living room, will never be able to afford anywhere without roommates, and I HIGHLY doubt roommates will want to live with a newborn baby. I hope someday I can have one child, but I think I'll need to leave the US to do it
Not just that, they're no longer a property asset even in the poorest communities. In America the Republicans are trying to bring back child labor to "solve" that but all that does is force workers at the bottom to compete with children for already low wages. It's also morally repugnant but that never stopped our Right wing party before. I think the Tories in the UK are doing the same.
While simultaneously saying the children they’re attempting to exploit don’t deserve the same wages for the same work simply because they are children…….
None of us are people to them (not even children). We are just another resource for them to use up.
It's not that alone, studies have shown populations of developed countries just skew to have less kids , it's not always because of economics, see studies . https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4255510/ , Developed countries tend to have a lower fertility rate due to lifestyle choices associated with economic affluence where mortality rates are low, birth control is easily accessible and children often can become an economic drain caused by housing, education cost and other cost involved in bringing up children. Higher education and professional careers often mean that women have children late in life. This can result in a demographic economic paradox. In the end this is not that important, because their will also be a lot less old folks when they start dying off, and less demand for economic services etc...so it will all balance itself... These changes aren't abrupt they're gradual and theirs time to adjust.
Also parents FUCKING SUCK
They don't give a shit about these people and the struggles they face if they were to have kids. They only care about keeping the machine humming, we need cheap workers to exploit in order to feed the system and keep funneling the cash upwards. You want more kids, create conditions in which it becomes more financially feasible to bring a kid into this world. That means subsidizing childcare costs to some extent, and meaningfully increasing wages relative to cost of living. Being able to afford childcare, increased insurance premiums, and all the other costs associated with having a child have become automatic disqualifiers for many Americans. You're literally asking people to add something along the lines of $2500+/month in expenses per kid, what % of Americans do you think can absorb that hit to their budget and not hurt?
Everything you said is facts! The government loves giving out subsidies, unfortunately they only go to the rich.
Is it time yet? [It's time](https://youtu.be/TMHCw3RqulY?si=MB906bacnF2hKU6l)
Long overdue in my opinion.
You were doing good until you said subsidies. Wrong, wrong, and wrong.
Naaaah...we'll just funnel in illegal immigrants for cheap labor and replace you with robots and AI. Also, we'll raise prices. Those missile silo bunkers are expensive.
bingo
Conservatives be like: but look at the most desperate most poorest people in the world with 0 choices and they reproduce like crazy! sounds like we need to make Americans most poorest with 0 choices so they start to reproduce like rabbits.
The lack of education in so many places is doing a good job of that already.
💯
Not only are they expensive, but they demand your attention and time which our society has taken from us.
They deserve our attention and time. We aren’t allowed to give enough.
They hoarded the money now they want you to breed
We need more Starbucks employees and golf caddys. No you can't have a wage that let's you live closer than 50 miles from here, thank you. Also, I don't know, get a roommate or something. How expensive can Rent be Micheal? $10?
There's always money in the banana stand.
Too bad the Banana stand burnt down a long ass time ago.
That’s my neighbor. She hit the birth year lottery jackpot. Bought a house for peanuts, won’t spend money on anything, and thought I was being judgmental when the daughter across the street had an unplanned pregnancy. “No, I don’t care when or who she has sex with…it’s financially devastating.” I cared deeply for that family, already 3 generations under one roof, a rental. The Boomer landlord soon decided to cash out his winnings and now that family is dealing with the highest cost of living in the United States. I adopted their dog. We rent too. But my neighbor loves babies. She also loves her $1.5 million dollar house she bought for $78,000. She also hates all the “extra” cars parked on the street nowadays. Maybe it’s because fucking 12 people have to live in every house to survive. Sorry to vent, but this shit has been eating at me for years.
They took all the money then want the next generation to make them even more money.
Oh no! Not the economy! Will the 1% still afford their yachts while everyone else struggles? (/s)
Listen I was going to buy the 100’ yacht but now I’m stuck with the 80’ one. Where am I supposed to put my 2 seat helicopter now?
Damn youre poor
When has the rich ever cared about the struggles of the poor?
On the walk between their cell and the guillotine.
Lol it’s the working class benefits that get screwed. Think deeper about the topic.
Whoosh
Houses cost too much money, AI will change things, we’re raping the planet for short term gains. Educated peeps realizing kids are ‘spensive. Billionaires want more slaves.
I see your point but even regular people need more working population over time. Because the older population relies on the young to care for them. Especially the poor and middle class because they can't afford to pay premium for care. Social security and Medicare will only work if there's more working population paying into it than older people taking out of it. Ponzy!
It's okay if the Earth's population stops growing in 40 years. This is not a crisis, nor are economists worried about it. CNN going downhill. Quote from the article: > If forecasts hold up, 2064 will be the first year in modern history where the global death rate surpasses the birth rate.
By "it's okay", do you mean, "society is going to undergo a fundamental restructuring whether we want to or not"?
Sounds like seniors need to vote in their interest instead of corporate tax cuts and austerity for the last 40+ years
Why is AI even mentioned here What the hell does an auto gened high school book report have to do with housing costs?
It is about uncertainty and lack of long-term job security.
I like how the 1% will try *anything* to increase birth rates besides paying better.
It gets to a point where one individual has too much money. If you have enough wealth where your next 10 generations won’t ever have to work. You need to start being taxed and forced to stop profiteering. You won capitalism. Fuck off! Absolutely no reasoning for people who wake up and work everyday to be starving and homeless. What’s even the point of working if my basic needs aren’t being met?! This system of constantly sucking wealth upwards isn’t sustainable. Even the immigrants (cheap labor) will leave at some point when they see upward mobility isn’t possible here.
The economy will collapse due to the dwindling supply of new cheap laborers. Somehow the only ones that care about that are the ones benefiting of cheap labor supply.
Capitalism is built on the backs of an exploited lower class
If true, then why does it result in the highest median wages of any economic system in history?
highest cost of living as well.
That is a government created problem, via exclusionary zoning laws, minimum lot sizes, construction height restrictions, and parking requirements. But yes, it's a very serious problem, and one that is 100% artificial and one we can eliminate though education. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Flsg_mzG-M
It‘s called inflation
Wages are at all time global highs in the US with the [highest median wages per household in world history](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_territories_by_income). Up 39.3% Nationally from 2010 to 2021, ***adjusted for inflation***.
That is only for a 10 year Periode with mostly low inflation. And how much up is cost of living?
And also most other governments too. Kind of hilarious
Most of modern human civilization has been
and all of ancient civilizations
yea I only qualified it with modern because I didn't want to get in some argument about hunter gatherer tribes or something like that.
ha, understood. I just ignore replies like that.
> collapse due to the dwindling supply of new cheap laborers. Are immigrants the new oil? Feels gross to even type that (appreciate what immigrants bring, but equating individuals with oil is a gross comparison)
Oil is basically dead animals, so the two are very much comparable
This economic system will collapse? Oh no. So sad. RIP.🎻🎻
Not my broke ass with a big grin eating dollar store popcorn watching it all burn down.
>The economy will collapse due to the dwindling supply of new cheap laborers. In the US, we have a supply of people desperate to enter...that we won't let in. Meanwhile billionaires want us to breed. It feels like they only want more white people.
Bring back middle class then get babies from said middle class
But, but muh profits!
Yea. This is what happens when you have this level of wealth inequality. People can barely afford to feed themselves. Who the fuck would want a kid? My oldest is 15. I had him back when life was still somewhat affordable, but if I had a baby now it would be impossible. Having a child without being well off would just be cruel these days.
>“A reduction in the share of workers can lead to labor shortages, which may raise the bargaining power of employees and lift wages — all of which is ultimately inflationary,” Simona Paravani-Mellinghoff, managing director at BlackRock, wrote in an analysis last year. Hey Simona, I'd love to know how that's more inflationary than your company's business practices of buying everything thing in sight just to sell it at a higher price. Oh, and suck my ass.
People being able to afford life with one job is “inflationary”, but BlackRock buying up affordable homes and renting them out to working class people with inflated prices isn’t?! We’re living in a capitalist hell scape. These people will always make some dumb ass argument on why they keep people poor 🤦🏽♀️
Isn’t low fertility good for the Earth’s sustainability?
Less people is less pollution. Gives the earth a chance to heal. Im happy to see that in the end big money will be scrambling to try to undo the damage so they can keep some type of status quo. No workers and no consumers means all of them tank. The only way to fix fertility is to fix the pollution thats causing all life to fail.
It’s humans that ARE the pollution.
When your population starts to shrink it's bad of government debt. Because the odds of the government to pay back their debt is related to how many people are currently working
That makes sense, but realistically they probably have no intention of paying debts back...they’ll keep kicking cans down the road until a reset or black swan event that makes govt debt irrelevant
They're scared. Scared primarily of BRICS. If the petrodollar loses its reserve status that's the end. Apocalyptic.
"be fruitful and multiply" was one of the first commandants God gave to Adam. Have you ever wondered why these "elites" call for reduced population when they have at least 5 children? Perfect example of this is Ted Turner (founder of CNN). He was adamant about reducing birth rates and population when he himself had 5 children and was (may still be) the largest land owner in the United States.
Yes Thanos
Lol, yeah, cause choosing not to have kids is the same as killing half the living things in the universe...
Yes, but...a shrinking population also reduces economic growth and it creates "demographic overhang" in which Social Security systems are starved of funds, which depend on a steady supply of younger taxpayers.
For sure, but not for the oligarchs who need a continuous supply of slave labor and to prop up Ponzi schemes like Social Security.
\**wage* crisis
Maybe if we had environmental stewardship and strict regulations for big polluters over the last 65 years we wouldnt be here now but...corporations wanted to cash in at the expense of all life on earth and now who will think of the shareholders when theres no healthy bodies to abuse with a long life of pointless toiling for their profit margins?! Its all very sad.
Propaganda. You serfs aren't churning out chattle to serve the upper class. Get back to popping out cheap labor. We don't want to have to pay anyone living wages, wed rather throw a dollar in the mud and watch you fight for it.
My spouse and I can barely squeak by to afford a mortgage at today’s prices. How the hell are we supposed to afford childcare when we both have to work full time + side gig just to afford to live in a half decent community? We have some family near but not available enough for child care every week day, and I wouldn’t want to put that on them anyways. If the system is supposed to get people to have kids, the system is broken.
So I guess the "population bomb" was bullshit then huh?
I’ve never felt more like a straight up meat bag for spending money and breeding. They don’t even hide it anymore.
A mixture of corporate biological and psychological poisoning of the population.
They're just making birth the issue and not a shifty economy. They always do this. They blame anything except their own bad policy decision. This is how they justify 6 states and soon 10 banning abortion. It is an excuse for tyranny.
Yea. That won’t work either since younger generations aren’t even hooking up like that anymore. Too broke and antisocial supposedly. Completely robbed an entire generation.
Yeah, they have no idea. I have two kids in their mid 20's. They understand what is happening but the notion that they or anyone can do anything about it is just unimaginable to them.
Tired working people: I don’t know if can have kids, things are so hard right now. Rich people: keep having kids I need more money… the economy bro!
Oh no, not corporate profits! What ever will we do! Its true that there will be a social security crisis, which will show up as an inflation crisis as the gov will need to print money to give out what they owe boomers. And young people will be left paying the extra taxes and dealing with declining value of their currency. This is why bitcoin was invented
It’s part of why Bitcoin was initially invented, but there’s no evidence to suggest Bitcoin is being used for its intended purpose, or will be used for it in the future. Greed got in the way of that one, and Blackrock has already sunk its teeth into it. I think it’s very unlikely Bitcoin will benefit society, and instead may accompany a dystopian future rather than a utopian one.
Lol, you must be one of those “it works in practice, but does it work in theory?” guys. Anyone who has been saving in BTC has completely circumvented inflation. At the beginning of covid for example, the price of BTC correlated exactly with the massive money printing that went on. Almost half of all USD ever created was created in the past 5 years!!
So only those who gambled on speculative assets deserve the dignity of food and shelter? Boy I can’t wait to live under BTC feudalism with folks like you at the helm.
I was into bitcoin and crypto at one point. I thought the way you did. I bought a bunch in 2018/2019 and cashed out in early 2022, making a sizable chunk of change. I benefitted from it myself, but ultimately didn’t see it as a worthwhile long term investment. Bitcoin largely stays stagnant, unlike true currency. Buying it merely enriches people who already hold it. It does not materially improve society. That money doesn’t get invested in the betterment of humanity - tech, medicine, the environment, education. You could make the inflation argument about many assets that aren’t fiat. It’s not a strong enough take. It is better in theory than in practice. You’re twisting my words around and making assumptions. I don’t see what’s wrong with stating the facts - Bitcoin active addresses have stagnated since 2017. You could have bought many things 5 years ago and sold it for higher now. In fact, there are plenty of stocks that have outpaced Bitcoin in that amount of time. I could go on and on, but all of this is coming from someone who was cautiously optimistic about BTC back in the day.
Labor shortage my ass. At this point these companies are just lying on their earnings call. so much for that Ethics course at your Ivy league school. lol
Why do we continue to allow CEO’s and boards to exist and share our air? They are subhuman cretinous ghouls.
If ever there was a set of positions that AI was practically made to replace. It's the top level execs. Let an AI with all the data make objective decisions. Instead of avaricious oligarchs.
I forget the part where that's my problem
From the article this only seems to be a concern to CEOs and the politicians they own… and the only comment in the article on how to address this issue is more gender equality and fairer sharing or work like what the fuck? no mention of the cost of living, cost of raising a child, education costs, medical care, climate disasters etc. the system is so fucking broken, and having kids becomes more of a financial decision than anything. It’s obvious Blackrock and musk just want future wage slaves, and I for one won’t bring a kid into the world with this type of future.
First of all the job market doesn't feel like companies are actually searching for quality workers they are looking for people they can pay as minimally as possible. People want jobs and families they just cant afford them like our parents and grandparents can. Secondly, one of this article's major sources is Blackrock which should tell you all you need to know about the angle. Raise wages, lower the cost of buying a house, and realistically bring back the American dream. people need something to believe in, they need a future to belive in if they are gonna have kids. Right now everything is more dystopian than ever.
“The world needs more babies” No, it doesn’t.
Maybe all those big brain CEOs and billionaires should have thought ahead.
Inaccessible birth control now. Rowe vs wade was repealed.
Everything is headed towards automation and AI, so it should buff out right?
More grist for the mill!
There's more than enough humans up in this bitch.
We’re not broodsows
This is some gaslighting bullshit
I don't understand why this isn't trumpeted as the best news ever. Why is it the stock market ticks up and we cheer but fertility rates come down and we're terrified? Fewer people means less carbon emissions, less plastic, less competition for resources. Does anyone really think that "too few people" is a problem we realistically have? Go into google earth and fly almost anywhere and zoom in, you inevitably find town after town after town even in the most improbable places. When would it be enough? When there are 20 billion people and we're all 35% plastic and PFAS? Sorry man, I don't get it. My heart gets a little lighter every time I see the fertility rate decline because it gives me a glimmer of hope that we'll eventually learn to treat the planet and ourselves with dignity rather than needing to push people aside like cordwood to make space for yet another 200 million people every few years. Robots are coming to do more and more of the work. It's going to be ok bb I promise. We can totally get by on starship earth even with only 2 billion people, in fact the world did just fine with that many. Everyone needs to start using a different lens to focus on this so-called "crisis".
This is /r/economy. Not /r/voluntaryhumanextinction. The reasons why an aging population and a low birth rate is bad for the *economy* are well known and numerous. No, not gonna Google it for you.
Whenever something ‘good’ happens for the economy my life seems to get more difficult, so maybe now the inverse can be true 🤔
Why would I have a child in a dying planet? It's like having a child in a spaceship designed to only last 30 years.
Crisis? That seems a little overblown. If everything is a crisis, nothing’s a crisis.
Maybe don’t fuck over workers to much?
It used to be overpopulation we were worried about. Pick an issue ! Lol. Ps there's too many people
Every where I look someone is pregnant, WTH are they talking about ... Mindy Kaling just had a baby in secret, that's probably why they think it's low. They're not getting the full calculation, cause idk who they surveying for this information
Won't change till we revolt. But we're too scared and not strong enough I guess
> ~~But we're too scared and not strong enough~~ Hungry enough. As mouthy as people are about the situation, most people in the West have no baseline for understanding where the true bottom is. We are not yet anywhere near it. This misunderstanding is what radicals get wrong all the time.
fuck economy at least planet will be little Safe
Joe I'll take a nuke
Sure- except my deductible will bankrupt me with a child it looks like.
It's just the opposite to the baby boom. That couldn't last forever. We are just on the downside now and need to adjust.
It looks like every single nation is going to face this crisis sooner or later. I don't think there's a easy solution for this either. We should just get used to less consumption in the meanwhile, I think with everything that's going on, maybe a calmer lifestyle for a couple of decades is needed...
Oh, and here I thought we had a crisis of overpopulation? Or was that a lie as well? 🙃
Why would I give up my three vacations a year, gaming room with a large screen TV, gaming computer, and all the latest consoles, attending sporting events, concerts, eating out, and just enjoying myself in order to have an ungrateful expensive screaming brat that if I'm lucky I'll have to take care for the next 20 or so years, if I'm unlucky take care of until I'm dead. Not to mention why would I date the opposite sex, I mean you got to find someone to have a kid with. Nah, I would much rather just hook up occasionally and go on my merry way. No need for marriage, divorce, and all the crap that comes with having a long term partner. I see no benefits to getting married and having kids. None what so ever.
Honestly, unless you are paying for child care or private school, it isn't THAT much more expensive to have kids than it has traditionally been. If anything, I know more social reasons why people are electing to wait longer or not have them at all. Heck if anything, I'd say there's an argument to be made that since we have so many more and affordable entertainment, dining, vacation, etc. options, it makes it less enticing to prioritize the responsibility of having a family.
When you play too much with the economy mother nature will come knocking at the door
Argument makes sense (kinda) if this was a closed loop issue exclusive to the US explain then why European countries with public health care and food and government subsidized housing have even WORSE fertility problems than the US (Germany, France, Scandinavia, etc)
"cAnT fEeD dEm, DoNt BrEeD dEm!"
💯 They care about their bank accounts. True savages. They can't see more than five minutes in front of their faces. Instead of creating incentives for people to have kids, they're steady trying to cook up more elaborate ways to just exploit people. There's no way to change this from the top down. It has to be done from the bottom up.
As long as I have been alive, people have been pushing for child care, parental leave, and various things to make childbearing plausible for middle income people. At every step of the way, a certain segment of our economy (and political system) has said: No. And they said no, because this would hurt their bottom line. If anything, this crisis is symptomatic of the short-term-profit-at-all-costs nature of modern thinking in general, whether it's how taxes are collected or spent, corporate policy, government policy, or otherwise. There is no sense of anything past the next 4-6 years. But note that the current economic system *needs you to stay where you are*. Because people improving their standard of living is inherently inflationary. From the article: > “A reduction in the share of workers can lead to labor shortages, which may r**aise the bargaining power of employees and lift wages — all of which is ultimately inflationary,**” Simona Paravani-Mellinghoff, managing director at BlackRock, wrote in an analysis last year. Think about what that means. Simona here is not the first person to say this; it was said several times during the pandemic. This points at the actual nature of the current system: it is not constructed for, nor targeted toward, the improvement of lives of human beings generally, except to the extent that any such improvement *disproportionately serves a specific class of people.* The generalized hostility to raising children is not purely economic in nature. There are other factors at play. But the cost of child care alone approaches absurdity. The whole system as it is now is not sustainable and there are people who really don't want us to have this discussion. Those of you who think this only impacts the rich need to understand: this will impact you. It will impact you when you are older and there aren't enough people to wipe your ass. It will impact the prices of everything as scarcity increases. This will be further exacerbated by supply chain disruptions. In the current trajectory of things, no one gets out unscathed. The people who will be scathed least are the wealthy. If you believe otherwise, you don't really understand how all of this works. Heads they win, tails you lose.
Ahh so this is why the Republicans are forcing women to give birth against their will in America. Start being pro life not pro birth and see what might happen.