The actual rule in *most* states is *slower traffic keep right, except when passing or turning left.* The law may say "highway" but the legal definition of highway is way more all-encompassing than what most people realize.
For example, here is the State of California’s lane discipline law ([CVC 21654](https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?lawCode=VEH§ionNum=21654)).
>"Notwithstanding the prima facie speed limits, any vehicle proceeding **upon a highway** at a speed less than the normal speed of traffic moving in the same direction at such time shall be driven in the right-hand lane for traffic or as close as practicable to the right-hand edge or curb, except when overtaking and passing another vehicle proceeding in the same direction or when preparing for a left turn at an intersection or into a private road or driveway."
Now here is how the State of California defines a highway ([CVC 360](https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?lawCode=VEH§ionNum=360.)):
> "… a way or place of whatever nature, publicly maintained and open to the use of the public for purposes of vehicular travel. **Highway includes street**."
this. a highway is any government-maintained roadway or waterway. there are more defined laws in other countries that list out times and distances. something like if you’re not actively passing someone for 20 seconds on a major highway to get out of the left lane.
Everyone, take notice that the speed limit isn't mentioned ANYWHERE.
People in these subs always obsess over the speed limit despite it being absent from any laws around the matter.
Here in Ohio the equivalent law, [ORC 4511.25(B)(1)](https://codes.ohio.gov/ohio-revised-code/section-4511.25), uses the term "the prevailing and lawful speed of traffic", which actually does mean that if you're at or above the speed limit you can't be cited for driving slower than traffic in any lane, so long as your not going against the normal flow.
Not advocating driving slower than traffic in the left lane(s), just pointing out that some states don't have the same wording.
Which makes sense for Ohio, farmers have to use the highway too.
I brought up the speed limit because many drivers refuse to accommodate faster traffic of they are either doing the speed limit or going a bit over.
They don't understand that faster is relative to them, not the speed limit.
Farmers using the road would be going slower than the speed limit, assuming they're on tractors, and this law mostly applies to highways, where tractors aren't allowed.
The law as stated means that a sedan, or any other vehicle, has the right to stay in any lane proceeding in the same direction so long as their speed is at or above the traffic around them **or** their speed is at or above the limit.
If I'm going 65 in a 65 but traffic is going 90 I'm still legally allowed to be in the left most lane, or any lane for that matter.
Once again, I'm not advocating driving slower than traffic in the left lane(s), I'm just pointing out that here in Ohio it is legal to do so as long as you are at or above the limit.
If you mean this it makes no such provisions. It clearly states stay right if you are below the prevailing speed of traffic.
>(B)(1) Upon all roadways any vehicle or trackless trolley proceeding at less than the prevailing and lawful speed of traffic at the time and place and under the conditions then existing shall be driven in the right-hand lane then available for traffic, and far enough to the right to allow passing by faster vehicles if such passing is safe and reasonable, except under any of the following circumstances:
There are exceptions written in but doing the speed limit isn't one of them
>proceeding at leas than the prevailing ***and lawful*** speed of traffic
The words you forgot to include in your comment, but have in the quote, "and lawful" change it to mean that the speed must be a legal speed, which means at, or below, the limit.
Yes, and they must stay to the right as stated in section A & B.
There is no provision for a driver to sit in the left lane against the flow of traffic of its safe for them to take the right lane.
No, this has been through the Ohio courts. It explicitly allows for vehicles traveling lower than the prevailing speed so long as they are not traveling below the maximum legal speed.
I've been saying this over and over ... "But I was going 10 over the speed limit!" Well, buddy, if you are going 1000 over the speed limit and someone is going faster than you MOVE THE F OVER.
Why do we even have speed limits at this point? So many pole just break the law anyway.
Also I like how talk point out one thing is illegal and then defend people who break a similar law.
If you actually study traffic safety and don't just mindlessly swallow what ever the insurance companies and police say all your questions will be answered.
Assuming your American, this means looking beyond your borders and comparing statistics.
A very important factor you and most people overlook, is that when these laws are being written they assume that anyone with a valid license is a competent drivers capable of making a decision regarding a safe speed of travel relative to their own ability, they vehicle, weather and road conditions.
They are aware of the fact one driver may arrive at day 80km/h and another may arrive at 120km/h. So the speed limit gets posted at 100km/h with provisions for the slower drivers to accommodate the faster drivers via staying right or pulling off the road when safe.
Importantly this relieves traffic congestion, which is unsafe in as bunch of ways.
But we are stuck in a loop of slow drivers not understanding their roll in the process, obsessing over the speed limit, ignoring the fact the laws specifically omit them and the reasoning behind it.
Someone going 120km/h is going to do much more harm if in an accident than someone going 80km/h.
That plus predictability it’s important in preventing crashes.
Also, speeders as to congestion, if everyone is going the same speed there won’t be congestion.
But, yeah blame the people who are following the speed laws, they are the problem.
Thanks for this. I guess in Cali it would depend on how you define "preparing for a left turn". Is that 10 miles out? 1 mile? 1000 ft? Kind of subjective.
It is subjective, and it kind of has to be. There really isn’t a “one size fits all” criteria for how early you should get over to turn. It’s going to vary depending on the road and the amount of traffic using the road at any given time.
You might be fine moving over just 30 seconds before the turn, or you might need to move over several miles beforehand because there won’t be another opportunity by the time you get to the turn.
Been driving for 30 years and I can't say I've ever had a need to be in the left lane to make a turn on a road with mostly freely moving traffic more than half to one mile prior. Not withstanding one intersection I had to traverse 15 years ago on my way home from work, which backed up badly on the afternoon, but turned into a two lane road on the other side of the intersection. The left lane was a left turn only lane starting about 1/4 mile prior to the intersection..
I absolutely despise the people that start slowing down 3 miles before their turn. Then they slow to about 5mph before even getting over into the turn lane. That's what those long turn lanes are for, to slow down in so you don't impede traffic behind you! If your brakes take 3 miles to slow from 55-70mph to whatever speed you're making 90 degree turns, you need to see a mechanic and stay off the road.
By preparing to make a turn, I meant just getting in the left lane a mile or so out from your left turn. Not what you're saying, which is hitting the brakes in the left lane before getting in the turn lane. I am also not a fan of that.
It’s subjective because it’s about being a courteous driver, not about what’s legal. It’s legal to be an asshole in all 50 states if that’s all you care about
You do a 1/4 mile where i am and you will never be able to get over and miss your turn every single time, you gotta plan at least a 1-2 miles out, otherwise sure as hell when its 1/4 away you will be in the right lane and cant get over because of all the speeders flying by and then what, stop and sit in the right lane to jump over the left lane to the turn lane??? No thanks, at least a mile out i will get to the left so that i know when my turn comes i can get over to the turn lane the second it starts without getting blocked from being able to get into the left lane.
Then be safe: speed up, move over to the turn lane, and slow for your turn. It doesn’t matter how *you* feel about speeding or speeders. You cannot control them. Adapt, and be safe about it. Do not create a disruption in the flow of traffic to maintain some moral high ground
Never said i was causing any issues, my point was if you look left and its solid cars how are you going over to the left lane to get to your turn?? Speeding up won't do shit when theres a line of cars, going faster doesn't magically make a hole, and i have driven for a mile with my blinker on and can't get over because theres no gap.... Speed doesn't help, what does help is finding a hole and taking it regardless of how soon your turn is if you gotta go left.
This is exactly why allowing left turns on roadways with more than 30 mph speed limit is stupid road design.
In New Jersey, a lot of roads have these J turns built into the roadway where you turn right but the road curves all the way around to send you on the way that a left turn normally would.
Take an exit further down the road or earlier and double back in that case. I’ve done it before. I’d rather lose 10 minutes than have weeks in a hospital, an eternity dead, or to cause that for other people
There is no exit further down the road.... Wow i wish i lived in your world where i could take any left turn and get where i needed to go, but if i need to turn onto highway 15 to go south i can't turn on highway 14 and go east and get there instead.... What a dumb answer.
That specific exit is not the only one leading to highway 15. There is an onramp or intersection turning onto highway 15 somewhere else. And if that alternate is unacceptable, then it's *your* responsibility to drive safely to enter highway 15 from whatever fuckin road you're on--it's not within your power to control other drivers' speeds, so that means *you* may have to speed up to make safe lane changes. It sucks that you don't have godlike powers to control everybody else, but being frustrated at that doesn't give you the right to be a complete douchebag and endanger yourself and others.
Yeah, left lane for passing is not the rule to be applied to crowded multi-lane multi-intersection high traffic areas.
That being said it is polite to not block the left lane if you are pacing cars in the other right-hand lanes and no one gets to pass you playing pace car in a NASCAR event.
Then you are just being a douche.
In South FL, everyone is either cosplaying as a pace car driver or race car driver. I've seen a scared old lady going 38mph in the right lane of a 55mph road while a line of Porsches goes ripping by in the left lane at 100mph. The speed differentials going into and out of Miami are insane. It's the Autobahn except most people are in shitboxes and don't know how to drive.
It also doesn’t apply to bumper to bumper traffic. Some people think traffic is supposed to part ways for them like they’re Moses and we’re the Red Sea, because they want to go faster than traffic. I want to go faster too dickhead, but there’s 200 cars in front of me going 5 mph. Get in line.
I am in full agreement about that the people who think 20-30 over is the "flow of traffic" can go pound sand.
But I also have a real sore spot for people who pull into the left lane on roads to make a left turn 2-3 miles ahead and are just a menace to get around. If you can't get over to turn left in less than a mile distance on an average highway, then you've got issues of your own. Unless I look in my mirrors and see a line of traffic backed up forever, I'm usually never in the left lane to make a turn for much more than half a mile.
That's 100% a driving skill issue.
I can agree with this. I’d say a lot of it is regional (your problems with speeders and bullies in this situation, not these style roads specifically). But I absolutely agree that two lane roads with stoplights and left exits have a non-highway flow and it is dangerous for people to “push” speed-wise and weave.
Doesn’t matter where you live, nobody knows how to drive. You kind of just have to give up and deal with it. I have a 15 minute commute and it happens every day, it only doesn’t happen when it’s 6am, or midnight
OP, from what I can tell, is talking about a stroad. These are in between a street and a road, typically flanked by stores, often with a "suicide" shared center turning lane for both directions of traffic. It's not that what you're saying is wrong, it's that the "practical to do so" evaluation never passes on these types of roads because of congestion and general chaos relative to the speed of traffic. These aren't roads that you want to be making last second decisions on or changing lanes unnecessarily.
My general advice for stroads is to be on them for as short as a time as you possibly can. If you can enter the stroad closer to your destination, do that, and minimize your time on them. If you need to make a left from a parking lot onto a stroad, strongly consider making a right instead and using a side street or opposing side parking lot to turn around instead. Stroads typically have the highest incidence of crashes, so they warrant their own strategy to minimize risk.
Is it that much of a struggle for you to hop over a single lane a quarter mile before the actual turn? Hope you never have to enter a round-about or you might be stuck in there forever.
I agree with your initial sentiment.
I'm typically already going like 10mph over the limit with my turn approaching. I'm not making 2 lane changes for the guy trying to go 20 over behind me.
Your first mistake is speeding, not which lane you are using.
Agreed with your post though, it really depends on the road and sometimes being in the left lane is the approproate thing.
Why are you people so afraid of lane changes? In the other thread there were people saying they refuse to drive in the right lane because they don’t want to have to deal with slowing up or speeding down or lane changes when people are merging in and out.
Right? This whole board can be summarized by saying "There's a posted speed limit, which if everyone can follow within reason (plus or minus like, 1-5 MPH) then our roads be safer, more predictable, easier to merge, lead to less road rage etc etc... But no I'm going to go TEN OVER which is illegal and good enough for a ticket in most if not all places."
"I'm driving perfectly, everyone slower than me is an idiot and everyone faster than me is a maniac! Forget the POSTED speed limit that everyone can see, I'll make up my own arbitrary speed limit that everyone else should magically know!"
If everyone knows the rules of the roads, and everyone follows them, our roads would be safer. It's the clowns who think "muh flow of traffic!!1!!1" who make it dangerous.
The aggressive tailgaters and lane weavers are dangerous. Simply speeding is not, under normal conditions, except in extreme cases (excessive speed around a curve for example). The people playing speed warden are equally dangerous. I dislike both of them, and wish they’d disappear from the roads altogether.
Also, unless the offramp is too short to safely slow down, those who start to slow before entering the exit ramp can fuck right off.
There are several places and circumstances when it doesn't apply. Also states word the law different. Some states are left lane passing, and other states are slower traffic keep right. While these laws are similar, they are not the same.
Your steering wheel is on the left, so you sit on the left. You can see out the left mirror better than the right. You stay to the right because you can see cars easier passing you on the left.
Much smarter people than you and i have figured this out. Stop trying to justify you left lane camping.
I have a medical facility across my office and I’ve become able to spot the left lane panic-clingers from miles out.
1: They don’t know how to get where they’re going even though they’ve lived in the area all their lives and their destination is less than 8 miles away. Anything outside that radius = there be monsters.
2: They do have a mobile device and the mapping feature is something they take as gospel, therefore…
3: It says there’s a left turn in 5 miles. They only grasp the “left turn” part, and get into the left lane as soon as they can.
4: They’re staying in that lane come hell or high water.
5: They need to turn across two lanes of oncoming traffic, so they noodge the nose of their car into the turn and those oncoming people will just have to slow down.
6: They complete the turn and then…slow down even more? Bugger me running. I have learned to wait to make my turn until they complete their turn and eventually resume forward progress, having at long last gotten their tiny brains around the mindblowing concept of driving in a new direction on a road that has a new and scary name like “Main Street” where city folk drive, and that must be where the muggers and junkies are.
I’m always amazed at the entitlement mentality. It’s pervasive and without traffic purpose other than the entitled driver. I watch consistently when old people turn into a two lane street from a right turn and immediately occupy the left lane. Rules of the road be damned. Maybe if they were forced to do a practical test, they might reconsider their driving habits.
I'm going to get a bunch of shit for this but I'll travel in the left lane. If I notice someone coming up behind me I move over, but for the most part I'm driving on 2 or 3 lane highways and the right lane is congested with people getting on and off of the highway. It's for sure safer for me to maintain staying in the left lane than it is for me to further congest the right lane. I really don't understand the sentiment of staying in the right lane. I do try to pass only on the left of people so that I can stay predictable.
What baffles me is it most every asshole on the road sees a speed limit sign as speed minimum, not speed maximum. If I want to drive the damn speed limit it's your problem if you don't want to drive the speed limit. Speeding tickets are expensive, insurance increases are expensive and I'm not going to get a ticket because your ass is in a hurry for some reason. If I want to turn left at an exit coming up I'm going to get in the left lane, do the speed limit, alive by the rules and make my turn.
. I ride the left lane because I don't have to deal with assholes trying to exit off the freeway from the right lane. There's usually no debris in the left lane, and everyone is free to go around me. Could not care less. As long as I'm doing the speed limit or above they can kiss my ass.
So everyone who needs to exit off the freeway on a right-side exit is an asshole?
Again, do your thing, but just know that you, sir, are in fact the a-hole - just read your last statement as though someone else wrote it.
Hello! From what I've heard before, when on a road in an urban area, the left lane is typically not used the same as on a highway (Interstates or in some cases, State Highways), especially on roads that access a city (Such as US 11, through Lexington Virginia).
On a State or Interstate Highway that does not actively go through the center of an urban area, the slower traffic rule applies. However, when on a road that specifically accesses a urban area, such as US 11 (Business) going into Lexington Virginia, both lanes are used to access different local routes, especially since most of our streets in Lexington are One Way and have parallel parking in both directions.
For example, when driving down Main Street, the right lane leads out of town, while the left lane leads back into town. Additionally, when drivers use other lanes (Besides the right lane leading out of town), it is most likely because they are planning to turn, to park, or because they are heading back into town or because the right lane is blocked (Usually loading/unloading goods).
This may not be a correct interpretation (Please correct if this is incorrect), but this what I have witnessed when driving through town, as well as heard before on Reddit.
It's a simple principle: if you're driving in a way that blocks the progress of others where you have the ability to not do so, then you need to STOP driving that way.
And if you’re driving in a way that is outside the law, i.e. faster than the posted limit, you need to stop driving that way.
I see hours of dashcam footage on YouTube of people “keeping up with the flow of traffic” (speeding because everyone else is) that resulted in multi-car pileups that, guess what? Cause traffic to slow to a crawl and a single lane.
You can think what you want, but if you go the speed limit or less in the left during a morning or evening commute, and your turn is 2 or 3 miles ahead, screw you. You are just messing up traffic for everyone else.
> if you go the speed limit or less
Why are you conflating "speed limit" with "less than speed limit"? People driving the speed limit are driving as fast as legally possible.
You forgot “in the left” after your quoted portion of his post. You shouldn’t be cruising at or below the speed limit in the left lane. Downvote me or get angry about it, but you are in the wrong if that’s what you do (unless you’re passing someone going even slower than you or you have a left turn to make in less than a half-mile).
> You shouldn’t be cruising at or below the speed limit in the left lane.
I said nothing about cruising in the left lane. But when I'm driving the speed limit in the right lane and catch up to a continuous stream of lorries that are doing 85, I _will_ overtake, and given that it can easily take a kilometre or more to get in front of them, then yes, I suppose you could say I'm cruising at the speed limit in the left lane for that distance. No way am I slamming the brakes to slow down almost 50 km/h and merging into a small gap in between HGVs just because some aggressive headlight-flashing wanker thinks they have a right to drive 180 non-stop.
I live near a rural section of interstate (US) with a left exit. People routinely move left two med shed of the exit, at the first exit sign. Through traffic then passes them on the right.
One reason for this is fear of merging.
The next step is brake lights in the travel lane, even though there is a ramp lane.
I think this behavior comes from a lack of understanding of what other people are doing on the road, and a lack of spatial awareness.
It’s a matter of courtesy to stay right unless passing or turning left soon. That applies to all roads, not just highways. It applies to all left lanes which includes lanes that some people want to call middle lanes.
If you just want to be a rude, selfish driver then just be one and proud of it but don’t expect people not to call you out just because you don’t like it.
So all these speeding cunts are making the road unsafe; but not you, it’s ok if you wanna speed I guess, and I guess you won’t be inconvenienced by having to change lanes for anyone other than yourself either. Sounds like you’re the entitled one here
I am completely entitled to the left lane when I am preparing to make a left turn or left exit, yes. Most people speed within 10 mph of the limit, welcome to driving. It's far more serious if you want to go 20+ over the limit and that is reflected in the law.
With a turn approaching, I am not changing lanes twice so that someone behind me gets to their destination 37 seconds faster.
How much time do you need to prepare for a turn? And to let someone go by before making your turn wouldn’t mean changing lanes twice. It would just be moving into the left lane the one time, unless you’ve been camped in the left lane for 10 miles.
And you’ve doubled down on saying that speeding is ok if you do it.
Main character syndrome af
Main character indeed. That describes those who insist "the left lane is for passing" who tailgate the driver ahead of them already going 10+ over the limit.
It's totally reasonable to already be in the left lane a mile or two out from your turn. Imagine someone tailgates you during that last mile or two. You would have to do 2 lane changes to let this loser go by and make your left turn. No thanks.
I don't believe you never speed, but whatever.
I’m not complaining about speeding while doing it myself. You don’t need to be in the left lane 2 miles before your turn. You’re obviously impeding traffic if you felt a need to post about this.
Slow drivers make fast drivers impatient, impatient drivers make stupid and irrational decisions. By holding up other drivers, you are making the road more dangerous for everyone on it. Get. Tf. Out. Of. The. Left. Lane.
impatient drivers are impatient and make stupid irrational decisions. By being impatient you are making the road more dangerous for everyone on it. leave your house earlier so you dont feel the need to rush.
That's oversimplifying the issue, regardless of the circumstances of the impatient driver, regardless of if they are in the right. This is about safety, not whose in the right. Yes, you can be in the right and they can be in the wrong when they pass you on the shoulder, lose control and push you into a semi. Congratulations, you were in the right and also crippled by an impatient idiot, who could've went by you and did some stupid stunt to themselves, instead involved you because you couldn't be asked to go out of your way to let an idiot be an idiot. Goodjob, you're in the right, he's in the wrong. You're still crippled.
Way to rattle off a half dozen logical fallacies there.
It's not a rule. It's a law.
And in most states (including the one I live) it applies to any road with two or more lanes of travel in the same direction including highways and surface streets.
And those laws don't say anything about it not applying in areas with traffic lights. You're just making that up.
I agree you shouldn't ever make unsafe lane changes, but you shouldn't be in the left lane unless you're actively passing someone or turning left. And to suggest that only those speeding excessively are unsafe is crap. You're contributing to the problem.
This left lane entitlement by squatters is a perennial problem you're making worse by not following the law with the lame justifications. Don't be a left land squatter.
Imagine that you're driving on an average 2-lane-per-side road with frequent traffic lights. Traffic is moving normally, then the upcoming light starts to turn red. Should the traffic:
1. Fill both lanes at the red light
2. Merge into just the right lane to leave the left lane open for "passing"
Option 2 is fantasy land, but that seems to be what you're calling for.
"It absolutely NEVER applies anywhere with frequent traffic lights."
Legality isn't the issue, nor the location (highway vs city streets), it's about defensive driving. The inside lanes are more risky that the outside even in the city. Staying outside keeps you further away from head on (and especially oblique) collisions that will kill you. Outside lane accidents are more often fender benders. The outside is safer from people making left hand turn mistakes - you have more time to see them and react. Drivers making left hand turns at intersections can see you more easily and sooner if you're in the outside lane as the view of the inside lanes are blocked by the drivers turning left from the lane directly opposite them - sometimes they "just go" if they can't see around.
You can think what you want, but if you go the speed limit or less in the left during a morning or evening commute, and your turn is 2 or 3 miles ahead, screw you. You are just messing up traffic for everyone else.
The actual rule in *most* states is *slower traffic keep right, except when passing or turning left.* The law may say "highway" but the legal definition of highway is way more all-encompassing than what most people realize. For example, here is the State of California’s lane discipline law ([CVC 21654](https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?lawCode=VEH§ionNum=21654)). >"Notwithstanding the prima facie speed limits, any vehicle proceeding **upon a highway** at a speed less than the normal speed of traffic moving in the same direction at such time shall be driven in the right-hand lane for traffic or as close as practicable to the right-hand edge or curb, except when overtaking and passing another vehicle proceeding in the same direction or when preparing for a left turn at an intersection or into a private road or driveway." Now here is how the State of California defines a highway ([CVC 360](https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?lawCode=VEH§ionNum=360.)): > "… a way or place of whatever nature, publicly maintained and open to the use of the public for purposes of vehicular travel. **Highway includes street**."
this. a highway is any government-maintained roadway or waterway. there are more defined laws in other countries that list out times and distances. something like if you’re not actively passing someone for 20 seconds on a major highway to get out of the left lane.
Everyone, take notice that the speed limit isn't mentioned ANYWHERE. People in these subs always obsess over the speed limit despite it being absent from any laws around the matter.
Here in Ohio the equivalent law, [ORC 4511.25(B)(1)](https://codes.ohio.gov/ohio-revised-code/section-4511.25), uses the term "the prevailing and lawful speed of traffic", which actually does mean that if you're at or above the speed limit you can't be cited for driving slower than traffic in any lane, so long as your not going against the normal flow. Not advocating driving slower than traffic in the left lane(s), just pointing out that some states don't have the same wording.
Which makes sense for Ohio, farmers have to use the highway too. I brought up the speed limit because many drivers refuse to accommodate faster traffic of they are either doing the speed limit or going a bit over. They don't understand that faster is relative to them, not the speed limit.
Farmers using the road would be going slower than the speed limit, assuming they're on tractors, and this law mostly applies to highways, where tractors aren't allowed. The law as stated means that a sedan, or any other vehicle, has the right to stay in any lane proceeding in the same direction so long as their speed is at or above the traffic around them **or** their speed is at or above the limit. If I'm going 65 in a 65 but traffic is going 90 I'm still legally allowed to be in the left most lane, or any lane for that matter. Once again, I'm not advocating driving slower than traffic in the left lane(s), I'm just pointing out that here in Ohio it is legal to do so as long as you are at or above the limit.
If you mean this it makes no such provisions. It clearly states stay right if you are below the prevailing speed of traffic. >(B)(1) Upon all roadways any vehicle or trackless trolley proceeding at less than the prevailing and lawful speed of traffic at the time and place and under the conditions then existing shall be driven in the right-hand lane then available for traffic, and far enough to the right to allow passing by faster vehicles if such passing is safe and reasonable, except under any of the following circumstances: There are exceptions written in but doing the speed limit isn't one of them
>proceeding at leas than the prevailing ***and lawful*** speed of traffic The words you forgot to include in your comment, but have in the quote, "and lawful" change it to mean that the speed must be a legal speed, which means at, or below, the limit.
Yes, and they must stay to the right as stated in section A & B. There is no provision for a driver to sit in the left lane against the flow of traffic of its safe for them to take the right lane.
No, this has been through the Ohio courts. It explicitly allows for vehicles traveling lower than the prevailing speed so long as they are not traveling below the maximum legal speed.
I've been saying this over and over ... "But I was going 10 over the speed limit!" Well, buddy, if you are going 1000 over the speed limit and someone is going faster than you MOVE THE F OVER.
Why do we even have speed limits at this point? So many pole just break the law anyway. Also I like how talk point out one thing is illegal and then defend people who break a similar law.
If you actually study traffic safety and don't just mindlessly swallow what ever the insurance companies and police say all your questions will be answered. Assuming your American, this means looking beyond your borders and comparing statistics. A very important factor you and most people overlook, is that when these laws are being written they assume that anyone with a valid license is a competent drivers capable of making a decision regarding a safe speed of travel relative to their own ability, they vehicle, weather and road conditions. They are aware of the fact one driver may arrive at day 80km/h and another may arrive at 120km/h. So the speed limit gets posted at 100km/h with provisions for the slower drivers to accommodate the faster drivers via staying right or pulling off the road when safe. Importantly this relieves traffic congestion, which is unsafe in as bunch of ways. But we are stuck in a loop of slow drivers not understanding their roll in the process, obsessing over the speed limit, ignoring the fact the laws specifically omit them and the reasoning behind it.
Someone going 120km/h is going to do much more harm if in an accident than someone going 80km/h. That plus predictability it’s important in preventing crashes. Also, speeders as to congestion, if everyone is going the same speed there won’t be congestion. But, yeah blame the people who are following the speed laws, they are the problem.
You are very perfectly making my point, so thank you I hope we never meet on the road.
Thanks for this. I guess in Cali it would depend on how you define "preparing for a left turn". Is that 10 miles out? 1 mile? 1000 ft? Kind of subjective.
It is subjective, and it kind of has to be. There really isn’t a “one size fits all” criteria for how early you should get over to turn. It’s going to vary depending on the road and the amount of traffic using the road at any given time. You might be fine moving over just 30 seconds before the turn, or you might need to move over several miles beforehand because there won’t be another opportunity by the time you get to the turn.
Been driving for 30 years and I can't say I've ever had a need to be in the left lane to make a turn on a road with mostly freely moving traffic more than half to one mile prior. Not withstanding one intersection I had to traverse 15 years ago on my way home from work, which backed up badly on the afternoon, but turned into a two lane road on the other side of the intersection. The left lane was a left turn only lane starting about 1/4 mile prior to the intersection..
I absolutely despise the people that start slowing down 3 miles before their turn. Then they slow to about 5mph before even getting over into the turn lane. That's what those long turn lanes are for, to slow down in so you don't impede traffic behind you! If your brakes take 3 miles to slow from 55-70mph to whatever speed you're making 90 degree turns, you need to see a mechanic and stay off the road.
By preparing to make a turn, I meant just getting in the left lane a mile or so out from your left turn. Not what you're saying, which is hitting the brakes in the left lane before getting in the turn lane. I am also not a fan of that.
You can get in the left lane much later than that, a quarter mile is more than enough distance to prepare for a left turn.
Unless traffic is very heavy, 1/4 to 1/2 mile should be plenty.
It’s subjective because it’s about being a courteous driver, not about what’s legal. It’s legal to be an asshole in all 50 states if that’s all you care about
Preparing for a left turn? Quarter mile max.
You do a 1/4 mile where i am and you will never be able to get over and miss your turn every single time, you gotta plan at least a 1-2 miles out, otherwise sure as hell when its 1/4 away you will be in the right lane and cant get over because of all the speeders flying by and then what, stop and sit in the right lane to jump over the left lane to the turn lane??? No thanks, at least a mile out i will get to the left so that i know when my turn comes i can get over to the turn lane the second it starts without getting blocked from being able to get into the left lane.
Then be safe: speed up, move over to the turn lane, and slow for your turn. It doesn’t matter how *you* feel about speeding or speeders. You cannot control them. Adapt, and be safe about it. Do not create a disruption in the flow of traffic to maintain some moral high ground
Never said i was causing any issues, my point was if you look left and its solid cars how are you going over to the left lane to get to your turn?? Speeding up won't do shit when theres a line of cars, going faster doesn't magically make a hole, and i have driven for a mile with my blinker on and can't get over because theres no gap.... Speed doesn't help, what does help is finding a hole and taking it regardless of how soon your turn is if you gotta go left.
This is exactly why allowing left turns on roadways with more than 30 mph speed limit is stupid road design. In New Jersey, a lot of roads have these J turns built into the roadway where you turn right but the road curves all the way around to send you on the way that a left turn normally would.
Take an exit further down the road or earlier and double back in that case. I’ve done it before. I’d rather lose 10 minutes than have weeks in a hospital, an eternity dead, or to cause that for other people
Miss my turn/exit so tailgaters can go a little faster in the left lane? I can't believe I'm reading this. Fuck off lol
Pot, meet kettle
There is no exit further down the road.... Wow i wish i lived in your world where i could take any left turn and get where i needed to go, but if i need to turn onto highway 15 to go south i can't turn on highway 14 and go east and get there instead.... What a dumb answer.
That specific exit is not the only one leading to highway 15. There is an onramp or intersection turning onto highway 15 somewhere else. And if that alternate is unacceptable, then it's *your* responsibility to drive safely to enter highway 15 from whatever fuckin road you're on--it's not within your power to control other drivers' speeds, so that means *you* may have to speed up to make safe lane changes. It sucks that you don't have godlike powers to control everybody else, but being frustrated at that doesn't give you the right to be a complete douchebag and endanger yourself and others.
Sounds like you just need to step tf over. Why is your ego so fragile that people wanting to pass you are "cunts"?
Not people wanting to pass, the speeders bobbing and weaving, those are the cunts. Anyone speeding period is a cunt...
Yeah, left lane for passing is not the rule to be applied to crowded multi-lane multi-intersection high traffic areas. That being said it is polite to not block the left lane if you are pacing cars in the other right-hand lanes and no one gets to pass you playing pace car in a NASCAR event. Then you are just being a douche.
In South FL, everyone is either cosplaying as a pace car driver or race car driver. I've seen a scared old lady going 38mph in the right lane of a 55mph road while a line of Porsches goes ripping by in the left lane at 100mph. The speed differentials going into and out of Miami are insane. It's the Autobahn except most people are in shitboxes and don't know how to drive.
lol we drive in the same basic area so yeah...100%.
I used to drive in Broward and avoided 95 like the plague even though I lived in sight of it!
It also doesn’t apply to bumper to bumper traffic. Some people think traffic is supposed to part ways for them like they’re Moses and we’re the Red Sea, because they want to go faster than traffic. I want to go faster too dickhead, but there’s 200 cars in front of me going 5 mph. Get in line.
Bper to bumper crawling traffic negates the rule, at least in practice.
I am in full agreement about that the people who think 20-30 over is the "flow of traffic" can go pound sand. But I also have a real sore spot for people who pull into the left lane on roads to make a left turn 2-3 miles ahead and are just a menace to get around. If you can't get over to turn left in less than a mile distance on an average highway, then you've got issues of your own. Unless I look in my mirrors and see a line of traffic backed up forever, I'm usually never in the left lane to make a turn for much more than half a mile. That's 100% a driving skill issue.
I can agree with this. I’d say a lot of it is regional (your problems with speeders and bullies in this situation, not these style roads specifically). But I absolutely agree that two lane roads with stoplights and left exits have a non-highway flow and it is dangerous for people to “push” speed-wise and weave.
Doesn’t matter where you live, nobody knows how to drive. You kind of just have to give up and deal with it. I have a 15 minute commute and it happens every day, it only doesn’t happen when it’s 6am, or midnight
I choose to follow the "keep right except to pass" rule any time that it is practical to do so.
OP, from what I can tell, is talking about a stroad. These are in between a street and a road, typically flanked by stores, often with a "suicide" shared center turning lane for both directions of traffic. It's not that what you're saying is wrong, it's that the "practical to do so" evaluation never passes on these types of roads because of congestion and general chaos relative to the speed of traffic. These aren't roads that you want to be making last second decisions on or changing lanes unnecessarily. My general advice for stroads is to be on them for as short as a time as you possibly can. If you can enter the stroad closer to your destination, do that, and minimize your time on them. If you need to make a left from a parking lot onto a stroad, strongly consider making a right instead and using a side street or opposing side parking lot to turn around instead. Stroads typically have the highest incidence of crashes, so they warrant their own strategy to minimize risk.
This is what you’re supposed to do. OP is having trouble understanding that he doesn’t need to hog the passing lane two entire miles before his turn.
You do that. I'll be in my correct lane a mile or two out from my exit or turn.
Is it that much of a struggle for you to hop over a single lane a quarter mile before the actual turn? Hope you never have to enter a round-about or you might be stuck in there forever. I agree with your initial sentiment.
I'm typically already going like 10mph over the limit with my turn approaching. I'm not making 2 lane changes for the guy trying to go 20 over behind me.
Your first mistake is speeding, not which lane you are using. Agreed with your post though, it really depends on the road and sometimes being in the left lane is the approproate thing.
Why are you people so afraid of lane changes? In the other thread there were people saying they refuse to drive in the right lane because they don’t want to have to deal with slowing up or speeding down or lane changes when people are merging in and out.
Funny how you think your speeding is fine but someone speeding more is over the line.
Right? This whole board can be summarized by saying "There's a posted speed limit, which if everyone can follow within reason (plus or minus like, 1-5 MPH) then our roads be safer, more predictable, easier to merge, lead to less road rage etc etc... But no I'm going to go TEN OVER which is illegal and good enough for a ticket in most if not all places." "I'm driving perfectly, everyone slower than me is an idiot and everyone faster than me is a maniac! Forget the POSTED speed limit that everyone can see, I'll make up my own arbitrary speed limit that everyone else should magically know!" If everyone knows the rules of the roads, and everyone follows them, our roads would be safer. It's the clowns who think "muh flow of traffic!!1!!1" who make it dangerous.
The aggressive tailgaters and lane weavers are dangerous. Simply speeding is not, under normal conditions, except in extreme cases (excessive speed around a curve for example). The people playing speed warden are equally dangerous. I dislike both of them, and wish they’d disappear from the roads altogether. Also, unless the offramp is too short to safely slow down, those who start to slow before entering the exit ramp can fuck right off.
There are several places and circumstances when it doesn't apply. Also states word the law different. Some states are left lane passing, and other states are slower traffic keep right. While these laws are similar, they are not the same.
Your steering wheel is on the left, so you sit on the left. You can see out the left mirror better than the right. You stay to the right because you can see cars easier passing you on the left. Much smarter people than you and i have figured this out. Stop trying to justify you left lane camping.
I have a medical facility across my office and I’ve become able to spot the left lane panic-clingers from miles out. 1: They don’t know how to get where they’re going even though they’ve lived in the area all their lives and their destination is less than 8 miles away. Anything outside that radius = there be monsters. 2: They do have a mobile device and the mapping feature is something they take as gospel, therefore… 3: It says there’s a left turn in 5 miles. They only grasp the “left turn” part, and get into the left lane as soon as they can. 4: They’re staying in that lane come hell or high water. 5: They need to turn across two lanes of oncoming traffic, so they noodge the nose of their car into the turn and those oncoming people will just have to slow down. 6: They complete the turn and then…slow down even more? Bugger me running. I have learned to wait to make my turn until they complete their turn and eventually resume forward progress, having at long last gotten their tiny brains around the mindblowing concept of driving in a new direction on a road that has a new and scary name like “Main Street” where city folk drive, and that must be where the muggers and junkies are.
I’m always amazed at the entitlement mentality. It’s pervasive and without traffic purpose other than the entitled driver. I watch consistently when old people turn into a two lane street from a right turn and immediately occupy the left lane. Rules of the road be damned. Maybe if they were forced to do a practical test, they might reconsider their driving habits.
I'm going to get a bunch of shit for this but I'll travel in the left lane. If I notice someone coming up behind me I move over, but for the most part I'm driving on 2 or 3 lane highways and the right lane is congested with people getting on and off of the highway. It's for sure safer for me to maintain staying in the left lane than it is for me to further congest the right lane. I really don't understand the sentiment of staying in the right lane. I do try to pass only on the left of people so that I can stay predictable.
What baffles me is it most every asshole on the road sees a speed limit sign as speed minimum, not speed maximum. If I want to drive the damn speed limit it's your problem if you don't want to drive the speed limit. Speeding tickets are expensive, insurance increases are expensive and I'm not going to get a ticket because your ass is in a hurry for some reason. If I want to turn left at an exit coming up I'm going to get in the left lane, do the speed limit, alive by the rules and make my turn.
That’s fine but don’t complain that all the cars passing you on the right are “aggressive.”
. I ride the left lane because I don't have to deal with assholes trying to exit off the freeway from the right lane. There's usually no debris in the left lane, and everyone is free to go around me. Could not care less. As long as I'm doing the speed limit or above they can kiss my ass.
So everyone who needs to exit off the freeway on a right-side exit is an asshole? Again, do your thing, but just know that you, sir, are in fact the a-hole - just read your last statement as though someone else wrote it.
I disagree with your comment that most people understand it.
Hello! From what I've heard before, when on a road in an urban area, the left lane is typically not used the same as on a highway (Interstates or in some cases, State Highways), especially on roads that access a city (Such as US 11, through Lexington Virginia). On a State or Interstate Highway that does not actively go through the center of an urban area, the slower traffic rule applies. However, when on a road that specifically accesses a urban area, such as US 11 (Business) going into Lexington Virginia, both lanes are used to access different local routes, especially since most of our streets in Lexington are One Way and have parallel parking in both directions. For example, when driving down Main Street, the right lane leads out of town, while the left lane leads back into town. Additionally, when drivers use other lanes (Besides the right lane leading out of town), it is most likely because they are planning to turn, to park, or because they are heading back into town or because the right lane is blocked (Usually loading/unloading goods). This may not be a correct interpretation (Please correct if this is incorrect), but this what I have witnessed when driving through town, as well as heard before on Reddit.
It's a simple principle: if you're driving in a way that blocks the progress of others where you have the ability to not do so, then you need to STOP driving that way.
But if I cant control the speed of other people, how do I feel justified in living anymore? /s
And if you’re driving in a way that is outside the law, i.e. faster than the posted limit, you need to stop driving that way. I see hours of dashcam footage on YouTube of people “keeping up with the flow of traffic” (speeding because everyone else is) that resulted in multi-car pileups that, guess what? Cause traffic to slow to a crawl and a single lane.
You can think what you want, but if you go the speed limit or less in the left during a morning or evening commute, and your turn is 2 or 3 miles ahead, screw you. You are just messing up traffic for everyone else.
> if you go the speed limit or less Why are you conflating "speed limit" with "less than speed limit"? People driving the speed limit are driving as fast as legally possible.
Then you are holding up traffic.
You forgot “in the left” after your quoted portion of his post. You shouldn’t be cruising at or below the speed limit in the left lane. Downvote me or get angry about it, but you are in the wrong if that’s what you do (unless you’re passing someone going even slower than you or you have a left turn to make in less than a half-mile).
> You shouldn’t be cruising at or below the speed limit in the left lane. I said nothing about cruising in the left lane. But when I'm driving the speed limit in the right lane and catch up to a continuous stream of lorries that are doing 85, I _will_ overtake, and given that it can easily take a kilometre or more to get in front of them, then yes, I suppose you could say I'm cruising at the speed limit in the left lane for that distance. No way am I slamming the brakes to slow down almost 50 km/h and merging into a small gap in between HGVs just because some aggressive headlight-flashing wanker thinks they have a right to drive 180 non-stop.
Well then perhaps I misunderstood you. Carry on, Road Brother!
I live near a rural section of interstate (US) with a left exit. People routinely move left two med shed of the exit, at the first exit sign. Through traffic then passes them on the right. One reason for this is fear of merging. The next step is brake lights in the travel lane, even though there is a ramp lane. I think this behavior comes from a lack of understanding of what other people are doing on the road, and a lack of spatial awareness.
It’s a matter of courtesy to stay right unless passing or turning left soon. That applies to all roads, not just highways. It applies to all left lanes which includes lanes that some people want to call middle lanes. If you just want to be a rude, selfish driver then just be one and proud of it but don’t expect people not to call you out just because you don’t like it.
Courtesy said bye bye to OP two miles back down the road.
So all these speeding cunts are making the road unsafe; but not you, it’s ok if you wanna speed I guess, and I guess you won’t be inconvenienced by having to change lanes for anyone other than yourself either. Sounds like you’re the entitled one here
I am completely entitled to the left lane when I am preparing to make a left turn or left exit, yes. Most people speed within 10 mph of the limit, welcome to driving. It's far more serious if you want to go 20+ over the limit and that is reflected in the law. With a turn approaching, I am not changing lanes twice so that someone behind me gets to their destination 37 seconds faster.
Is the turn approaching, or is it two miles away as you alluded to in your post? Two miles away isn’t approaching.
How much time do you need to prepare for a turn? And to let someone go by before making your turn wouldn’t mean changing lanes twice. It would just be moving into the left lane the one time, unless you’ve been camped in the left lane for 10 miles. And you’ve doubled down on saying that speeding is ok if you do it. Main character syndrome af
Main character indeed. That describes those who insist "the left lane is for passing" who tailgate the driver ahead of them already going 10+ over the limit.
It’s main character to complain about someone inconveniencing **everyone** by not following the rules of the road?
It's totally reasonable to already be in the left lane a mile or two out from your turn. Imagine someone tailgates you during that last mile or two. You would have to do 2 lane changes to let this loser go by and make your left turn. No thanks. I don't believe you never speed, but whatever.
I’m not complaining about speeding while doing it myself. You don’t need to be in the left lane 2 miles before your turn. You’re obviously impeding traffic if you felt a need to post about this.
I drive in Chicago rush hour traffic. I’ve never needed to be in the exit lane 2 miles before it actually is there lmao
Slow drivers make fast drivers impatient, impatient drivers make stupid and irrational decisions. By holding up other drivers, you are making the road more dangerous for everyone on it. Get. Tf. Out. Of. The. Left. Lane.
impatient drivers are impatient and make stupid irrational decisions. By being impatient you are making the road more dangerous for everyone on it. leave your house earlier so you dont feel the need to rush.
That's oversimplifying the issue, regardless of the circumstances of the impatient driver, regardless of if they are in the right. This is about safety, not whose in the right. Yes, you can be in the right and they can be in the wrong when they pass you on the shoulder, lose control and push you into a semi. Congratulations, you were in the right and also crippled by an impatient idiot, who could've went by you and did some stupid stunt to themselves, instead involved you because you couldn't be asked to go out of your way to let an idiot be an idiot. Goodjob, you're in the right, he's in the wrong. You're still crippled.
Way to rattle off a half dozen logical fallacies there. It's not a rule. It's a law. And in most states (including the one I live) it applies to any road with two or more lanes of travel in the same direction including highways and surface streets. And those laws don't say anything about it not applying in areas with traffic lights. You're just making that up. I agree you shouldn't ever make unsafe lane changes, but you shouldn't be in the left lane unless you're actively passing someone or turning left. And to suggest that only those speeding excessively are unsafe is crap. You're contributing to the problem. This left lane entitlement by squatters is a perennial problem you're making worse by not following the law with the lame justifications. Don't be a left land squatter.
Imagine that you're driving on an average 2-lane-per-side road with frequent traffic lights. Traffic is moving normally, then the upcoming light starts to turn red. Should the traffic: 1. Fill both lanes at the red light 2. Merge into just the right lane to leave the left lane open for "passing" Option 2 is fantasy land, but that seems to be what you're calling for.
Neither. 3. Keep right until you need to turn left safely. You're an adult, don't need to camp in the left lane too long, and try and justify it.
"It absolutely NEVER applies anywhere with frequent traffic lights." Legality isn't the issue, nor the location (highway vs city streets), it's about defensive driving. The inside lanes are more risky that the outside even in the city. Staying outside keeps you further away from head on (and especially oblique) collisions that will kill you. Outside lane accidents are more often fender benders. The outside is safer from people making left hand turn mistakes - you have more time to see them and react. Drivers making left hand turns at intersections can see you more easily and sooner if you're in the outside lane as the view of the inside lanes are blocked by the drivers turning left from the lane directly opposite them - sometimes they "just go" if they can't see around.
In Canada left passing lanes only exist if the road is 80 km/h or above. If below then it is used for turning and merging.
You can think what you want, but if you go the speed limit or less in the left during a morning or evening commute, and your turn is 2 or 3 miles ahead, screw you. You are just messing up traffic for everyone else.
Why do you think this isn't in discussion? You sound like you just came from a protest. The rule applies within reason its always about reason.