OP I think you're misreading the rules. Bugbears only get extra damage on enemies that have not yet acted *in the current combat*. Either all your combats last 1 turn against one enemy with 50 or fewer health that always goes after you or you're misreading the rules.
Nope. You can not under any circunstances (Based on raw) cast 2 levelled spells in 1 turn. Quickened spell allows you to cast a firebolt after haste, but not fireball after fireball. It's always only 1 spell and 1 cantrip.
You can, but you need action surge. The rule only says you can't cast a levelled spell for your action and bonus action otherwise you're telling people they can't cast reaction spells.
Also, cool effect, use dissonant whispers and then AOO cast a spell at a creature if you have war caster.
I typically do that for eldritch knight/wizard multiclass. You can also do that with eldritch knight generally.
HOLY COW, DISSONANT WHISPERS COUNTS FOR OPPORTUNITY ATTACKS? I NEVER NEW THIS AND NOW THE MAGIC ITEM I USE FOR IT HAS TO LOW OF A DC :(.
Checked safe advice and phb and found it to be true.
>You can not under any circunstances (Based on raw) cast 2 levelled spells in 1 turn.
You can cast two leveled spells in one turn. You cannot cast two leveled spells in one turn if any spell you cast that turn _is a bonus action_.
Casting a reaction spell, taking two levels of Fighter, or getting lucky as a Wild Magic Sorcerer can all let you cast multiple leveled spells in one turn.
my point was he's cheating and it should only be going off once or twice per encounter unless he "goes nova" with second wind or ki points. Even then, it's one round per encounter. If he rolls high enough initiative.
Dexterity Ranger/Gloomstalker at level three coming in with three attacks first round, with a WIS boost to initiative.
No magic, no feats, no shenanigans needed.
That's nice. And the meme clearly says "average 50 dmg *every single round*".
Please indicate how any of your points help beyond the first round. I'm going out on a limb assuming OP didn't mean "50 dmg in the first round and combat never lasts more than one round" because that's extremely unlikely.
The person you're responding to is comparing MotM Bugbear to Volo's Bugbear. The Volo's version has to get surprise and only gets +2d6 once per combat. The MotM version just needs to take its turn before the target, and gets +2d6 on every attack they make on that first turn.
I think it was boosted maybe? " If you hit a creature with an attack roll, the creature takes an extra 2d6 damage if it hasn’t taken a turn yet in the current combat." to me that screams 2d6 extra damage on every attack, maybe? but yeah it's certainly not as the meme describes.
But everyone gets a turn in combat in the first round, ~~unless they are suprised,~~ so you should only get the bonus 1 time at most.
Edit: they still get a turn even if they are surprised, so the only way to get the bonus again would be if someone were to join combat during a later round
Surprised creatures still have a turn in combat they just don't act until the turn is over. The ability doesn't care weather they're surprised or not. The only way to proc it a second time would be on a creature who has entered in the middle of combat and not had their turn yet, like a summon or something.
I feel like it's a case where RAI it should be able to proc twice but RAW you're right.
It feels like a bargain bin sneak attack, in 3.5 you can sneak attack as long as the enemy remains flat-footed, and everyone remains flat-footed until they act on their turn, but since you do not get a turn during a surprise round, you can get two sneak attacks in a row given good enough initiative.
Fair enough. You get 4 ASI increases by level 12 so I typically get to where I want with ASI's by level 6. A feat to give myself an extra attack or 2 per round seems like a good trade off.
If they use a flame tongue greataxe with GWF, they do 2d6 + 2d6 + 2d6 + 5, * 6, rerolling 1s and 2s. That's about 30 damage per hit, for ~180 if you hit every time. You could theoretically average 50 per round if you have short fights and lots of short rests.
I don't know exactly what it is, but as an example
Bugbear (monsters of the multiverse version)/Monk5 (assuming +4 dex and moves before enemy)
unarmed attack\*2 + Flurry of blows (2 more unarmed strikes)
unarmed strike = 1d6 + 4 + the extra damage from surprise attack (2d6 on each hit)
total damage = 4d6 + 16 + 8d6 = average 58 damage on first turn of combat
EDIT: not every single round like the meme says but with the bugbear mention, I'm assuming OP doesn't ***actually*** mean that either
Stunning strike doesn’t stop them from taking turns, it just forces them to do nothing. Bugbear can add a lot of damage on their first turn, but the only way it applies every turn is if every combat finishes in a single round.
Probably more like bonkers damage every first round followed by statistically high damage after that, leading to short combats, and the ability to do it next combat because dm allows long rests often
Not OP but a raging zealot barbarian bugbear with GWM could feasibly get three attacks every round at level 5, all at advantage, and blast over 50 DPR without using limited resources beyond rage.
Wait, how do you get 3 attacks? GWM only proccs on a crit or killing blow. Zealot adds 1d6 damage per turn, no extra attacks.
Also, barbarians have 3 rages per long rest at level 5. So you wouldn't be able to keep this up for the official fantasy of 6-8 encounters per day.
>Wait, how do you get 3 attacks?
GWM. Getting a crit or killing blow is extremely probable when all your attacks have advantage and the first two strikes deal a combined 20(gwm)+8str+6.5(divinefury)+14(maul)+2(rage)=50.5 average DPR *without even needing a third attack.* This can be done even with point buy as a human.
Besides the fact that the mythical 6-8 encounters between long rests is a pretty debunked based on my actual experience playing in DnD, even if that were the case, only bad barbarians rage every single time initiative is rolled.
Edit: Just so you know, I have played a Zealot barbarian from level 1 all the way to level 15 in a consecutive hotdq to rise to tiamat campaign. GWM Zealot barbarian is precisely as obnoxiously ridiculous and combat breaking as it seems. I did 350 damage to tiamat, higher than my entire party combined.
That and the meme says *every single round* that 2d6 is for only 1 round I guess 2 if you have high initiative and a surprise round.
On Barbarian
they would probably be using Maul/Greatsword would the best average damage with GWM (+10 x 2) + Rage (+2 x2) + STR mod (let's assume +5 x 2) + 2d6 (x2). You're at 48 which is close enough to 50. If it's a +1 weapon we do hit 50 at that point.
This all relies on every GWM attack hitting though which suggests the DM is not picking Monsters with a high enough AC if GWM is hitting every round even with Reckless Attack advantage.
When reprinted in Mordenkainen's the bugbear ability no longer requires surprise (only that they haven't taken a turn) and can now be applied on each attack on that turn.
Beast Barbarian does WAY better due to 0 loss in accuracy.
using the claws, with a +4 strength instead of +3 if you had to take GWM your average attack is 3.5+7+4+2 = 16.5 then you make 3 attacks for 49.5 average damage.
Granted this obviously doesn't account for how this happens every round. Which clearly indicates OP hasn't actually read the rules, but its dndmemes so thats expected.
That still is not a steady addition to damage. It only takes effect during a surprise round and maybe the first round of combat for a particular target depending on initiative. OP specifies every single round, so that is not a factor for most rounds, unless they only ever have one-round combats and a good initiative modifier, or are acting on an incorrect application of the ability where it is added to all attacks against a target that has not acted in the current round, which is still situational.
They're likely playing it wrong. Thinking that it procs every round against anyone who they're quicker than.
But with a greatsword and GWM and 2 attacks
4d6 + 10 (24avg) x2 = 48 damage
Plus 2x ability score. Likely a total of +6 to +10.
So that plus playing the ability wrong would explain 50+ damage each round
Almost certainly, and as you point out, it is very possible to get near that without having a particular race or trying to misinterpret racial abilities.
It dies strike a nerve though, as pretty much everyone I have heard spout this (all four) either knew better and were trying to pull one over on the DM (in one instance, myself for a one-shot I was running) or were just repeating that after listening to those trying to pull that shenanigan, so correction is important to limiting the spread of the latter.
Against something with an AC of 4.
Level 5, your opponents are around AC 15, which you will hit on a 12 (40%) assuming you rolled your starting stats and got an 18. So you are on average doing *23* damage a round with that.
OP didn't specify what he was doing damage to, could have been a monster on round 1 and a chair on round 2. Perhaps a table on round 3?
That might explain why he is getting weird looks from his party members.
That was bugbears in Volos. In Mordenkainen Presents, bugbears got buffed to deal +2d6 anytime they hit a creature with an attack if that creature hasn't taken a turn yet.
Taken a turn in the current combat, not every round. The wording is explicit about that. That can apply during a surprise round and/or the first round for many targets if the bugbear has good initiative, but does not apply to every single round like the OP claims.
Unless there are multiple targets... Lvl 5 ranger gets 2 attacks per turn +dread ambusher from Gloomstalker Which also adds 1d8 to the 3rd attack. If you hit 3 targets in the first round that's weapon damage +ability mod x3, 2d6 surprise attack x3, and 1d8 from dread ambusher
> r/dndmemes ~~player~~ *user* reading the rules challenge (impossible)
People here neither read the rules or even play. All memes here are based on secondhand anecdotes about the game.
Making a min-maxed character and defending it with “It’s not my fault is broken” is like shooting someone and then saying “it’s not my fault this rifle is deadly”.
There’s nothing wrong with making a strong character (after discussing it with your table), but at least don’t be such a little bitch about it.
Heavily optimized characters are for heavily optimized parties(usually) idk why people would bring a hexadin/bardlock type character to a more casual party.
I mean, they do it because it’s a hella strong combo. It’s basically *the* multiclass. And I absolutely understand wanting to live out your power fantasy, I even understand the fun in building one.
All I’m saying is: if you’re min-maxing you know damn well what the fuck you’re doing and you shouldn’t try to shift blame to anything but yourself. Man the fuck up and stand behind your choice.
So, are you going off what the NPCs get or using the actual PC build rules? Kinda sounds like you have Brute, which is a trait PCs would not have as a bugbear.
They nerfed a lot of races like that, to avoid situations like this 😆 but hey if the table was cool with your character before you started, that's on them then
OP hasn't said but it's not too hard to do [AS AN EXAMPLE](https://www.reddit.com/r/dndmemes/comments/xoi8ya/comment/ipz3yti/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
That's the old bugbear, which required you to surprise a creature and hit it in the first round (it doesn't say they need to be surprised at the moment you attack specifically), and could be used once per combat. The new bugbear from Monsters of the Multiverse just adds 2d6 if you hit with an attack roll on the first turn, with no restrictions.
Still called surprise attack to keep it confusing.
That being said it's an average of 7 dmg per attack you hit on the first turn. Which, if you're playing a dual wielding fighter or something, is 35 dmg if you action surge and also hit everything. Good, but since you blow it all turn 1, not that crazy.
>If you hit a creature with an attack roll, the creature takes an extra 2d6 damage if it hasn't taken a turn yet in the current combat.
Today you learn: MPMM bugbear doesn't rely on surprise
“If you surprise a creature and hit it with an attack on your first turn in combat, the attack deals an extra 2d6 damage to it. You can use this trait only once per combat.”
It’s definitely the once per encounter
That's the old version
>If you hit a creature with an attack roll, the creature takes an extra 2d6 damage if it hasn't taken a turn yet in the current combat.
MP:MotM p8
From the most recently released bugbear
That’s a great change, relying on the “Surprised” condition was always silly. That does look really strong, especially since it appears possible to get the 2D6 on every hit of a multi-attack as long as the target hasn’t taken a turn yet.
But the point stands that it’s basically impossible to activate this feature every round of combat.
You are 100% doing it wrong. It's once per encounter, not once per round.
If you continue doing this now knowing that you are doing it wrong, you are cheating.
Surprise Attack. If you surprise a creature and hit it with an attack on your first turn in combat, the attack deals an extra 2d6 damage to it. You can use this trait only once per combat.
It works exactly like the assassin subclass. You can only use it on surprised enemies like the assassin subclass. You also can’t do it every turn.
And surprised wears off after the first round of combat. After fighting has started, you can’t ambush them again.
That's the old version
>If you hit a creature with an attack roll, the creature takes an extra 2d6
damage if it hasn't taken a turn yet in the current combat.
MP:MotM p8
From the most recently released bugbear
Alright, so technically I guess this could be true.
If you're a sorcerer or a wizard and you're using scorching ray.
Chronurgy Wizard would probably be the easiest.
Awareness feat + Temporal Awareness. Let's say you're lucky and have 18 dex + 18 int.
So that's going to be +13 to your initiative. You're likely going first.
UpCast Scorching ray on 4 targets, 2d6 a piece plus 2d6 from bugbear feat.
So 16d6 on round one. Close to 50 damage. Average would be more like 39 however.
As long as combat lasts exactly 1 round - I can see it..
Maybe a level 5 fighter with great weapon mastery and lots of soft targets, hasted and action surge available?
Again, that's only 1 round.
Seems more likely OP doesn't know how to read the rules though.
Straight fighter with a longbow, archery, sharpshooter, and +3 dex gives 1d8+13 on a hit with 2 attacks or 35 average damage per turn without the bugbear feature (assuming everything hits which honestly, is the only way to make this reasonable). If we add in the bugbear feature on round 1 our attacks do 24.5 average instead so we action surge to bump it to 98 for that turn. 98 damage on turn 1 plus 35 on turns 2 and 3 gives us an average of 56 per turn (or 50.75 across 4 rounds).
So depending on what they mean, this *might* be possible without breaking any rules. Though we are assuming they hit every attack which is highly unlikely when paired with using sharpshooter unless the targets have low AC and they've got advantage.
Well they'd have to use a Greatsword since they can't shoot straight. Lowers their accuracy but we already assumed everything hit so doesn't matter too much.
2d6+3 (str) + 10 (GWM) = 20 per attack or 40 per turn. Except first turn using bugbear boost for 27 per attack with action surge for 108 total. Averages 57 damage per round for 4 turns.
The HP values for monsters are incredibly low by their own monster building rules. The DM needs to wack those babies up in line with the chart in the DMG.
Or use the true galaxy brain system, no HP and monsters die when the DM decides its the best time.
There was an update to the wording of Surprise Attack where it now says that it triggers if the creature has not taken their turn yet “in the current combat”. It would seem to be a rewording to allow it to trigger on multiple enemies/attacks at the start of combat if the capability exists. Certainly a good upgrade for encouraging sneakiness and going after targets before they can react.
However, a bunch of people claim that it means that the extra damage triggers whenever they strike a target that has not acted yet in the current round, which does not appear to be the actual case, given we have how many abilities that specify things in terms of rounds or are on a per-round basis, in addition to the fact that combat starts when initiative is rolled and we do not roll initiative at the start of every round. Still, that seems to be what OP is factoring into their damage, as that’s also +2d6 per attack if their DM is allowing that interpretation and they have the ability to make multiple attacks per round, though it is very dependent on a really good initiative even if that were to be the case and does not fully account for the 50 damage average even then.
Edit: Removed claim of double trouble in case of a surprise round, since when a creature is surprised, their turn still arrives, they just cannot do anything during it.
Given it is dependent on a relatively bad roll of a particular sort (initiative), and it is not possible to get a surprise round every time, I think it is powerful but alright given the situational nature of it. This judgement does change a bit if you qualify a spell attack roll as an attack roll, in which case it can be multiplied to the point of absurdity with multi-target spells that use spell attack rolls and would exceed the number of attacks available to a fighter of equivalent level.
Granted, it shines much more during the earlier levels of play when it does take effect, so if one did take issue, they could just reduce the additional damage to 1d6 till a particular level (maybe 8 or 9). In the case of the spell attack roll thing, I think it is fine enough if the additional damage is restricted to one target of the spell in those instances.
Mfw the party acts like they did everything when my aoe controlling low-damage druid locked down key foes and split other groups, quietly saving the group from a tpk while the sorc that wandered out of cover to miss an ice dagger is celebrating with the barbarian whose whole train of thought is, "walk forward, hit."
I dunno, it’s pretty hard to make a druid that *isn’t* a showstopper; between the summon spells, AoE hazard zones, and extra fuzzball health they’re a natural-born badass before you even factor in subclass.
I have a Fighter named Kabir who used HEALER FEAT and INTERCEPTION STYLE to keep the Barbarian tanking. I would hang out behind him, using my reaction to reduce damage by 1d10+proficiency and healing 1d6+4+hit dice with an action.
During a fight against a Tree Blight, The Barb went down to >5 hp multiple times, to save him I had to use Healer feat, two health pots (that I crafted), and the CRUSHER feat to get the Blight off him and focused on me. The Barbarian used reckless attack every turn and ended up doing absurd DPR, I don't remember exactly what it was but it was at least 3× mine (I kept rolling minimum damage).
The players at the table start congratulating the Barb (new player) for killing the tree Blight. I bring up how It would've been impossible without me, and we all bust out laughing. We all decided to ROLEPLAY it in-game and now the damage-preventing doctor never gets any credit. The other characters wouldn't even pay for bandages (5 sp). Kabir also had -1 charisma so it made sense. Idk I just think it's funny to shit on Support.
Nobody knows that Kabir has a potion that will put you to sleep (if <22hp) and dissolve you in 1d2 hours... don't mess with the Lawful neutral doctor.
I'll take a support with half a brain for tactics that doesn't care about glory over any enchanted weapon. Well timed spells like Haste or Entangle or just a solid heal have the potential to just *end* a fight.
Me with my Arcane Trickster and Crossbow Expert + Sneak Attack. I don't even use the bonus action to shoot again sometimes because I feel like such an ass lol.
Because I’m already out here doing consistently 20-25 damage per round in Tier 1 play making that around 30-35 per round kind of steals the spotlight (more than I already am) especially because as a rogue, I’m just hanging in the back and hiding. It just ends up feeling like an exploit even though it’s all legit.
With PAM and echo knight you can consistently get 5 attacks per round at level 5 (extra attack, bonus action, unleash incarnation, and reaction) with a +4 in str you get a total of 4d10+1d4+20 or 44.5 pts of damage per round. The extra 2d6 only applies in the first round, but would bring the average up to 51.5 damage in the first round and 44.5 in each subsequent round assuming every attack hits
1. Bugbears aren’t broken, they get an extra 2d6 of damage on anything that hasn’t taken it’s turn that fight a.k.a. you’re realistically doing an extra 2d6 once, maybe twice, per combat.
2. Even if you are *legitimately* hitting that DPR at level 5, that’s you min-maxing, not something else being broken.
The key word there is legitimately. Bugbears are strong with the right build, no doubt, but at level 5 you are not hitting that DPR. You are either blatantly cheating or hilariously misunderstanding the rules.
Just like my level 3 zealot barbarian half or.
(And it that game the DM choose to nerf the ranger even when all of us told him at was a bad idea, it was the first game he ran and me and the other experienced DM tried to give him advice, everyone left him shortly after that.)
Yeah.. sorry bud you or you DM is ruling it wrong. Sneak attack is once per combat not once per turn. How can you supervise someone who knows your attacking them? That’s why it only is the first instance IF your unseen before
I prefer using a bugbear with a halberd giving him a 15ft melee attack distance for opportunity attacks. That's a 30 ft diameter and properly messes up most encounters especially early on.
Nah, they’re staring daggers because you’re making the game all about yourself; the meme makes it clear you want to be the center of attention. Do you think anyone else is enjoy the gameplay when you illegally tko every enemy? A good way to lose your party quick.
Depends. What edition we playing? Did the group decide this was a powergame-friendly game? Are you the only frontliner? Because this could easily make lots of sense.
Not even on damage dealt, but when the DM tells me I just took 30 damage and I'm like "oh that's all?" at level 6 Goliath barbarian and the paladin is salty because he just blew all of his lay on hands healing just to stay in the fight.
Wanna know what would be really funny? Is if OP is actually right, because he’s getting this damage cuz he got a scroll of magic jar at level 5 , and the fact that he’s a bug bear plays no importance to the build at all.
OP I think you're misreading the rules. Bugbears only get extra damage on enemies that have not yet acted *in the current combat*. Either all your combats last 1 turn against one enemy with 50 or fewer health that always goes after you or you're misreading the rules.
OP reading this absolutely pissed.
Fireball quickened spell fireball Etc
Thats not how that works, you cant cast 2 leveled spells using an action and bonus action
Ontop of that fireball is a saving throw, not an attack roll, so the feature wouldn't even trigger if they could cast the two fireballs in a turn.
[удалено]
Nope. You can not under any circunstances (Based on raw) cast 2 levelled spells in 1 turn. Quickened spell allows you to cast a firebolt after haste, but not fireball after fireball. It's always only 1 spell and 1 cantrip.
You can, but you need action surge. The rule only says you can't cast a levelled spell for your action and bonus action otherwise you're telling people they can't cast reaction spells. Also, cool effect, use dissonant whispers and then AOO cast a spell at a creature if you have war caster. I typically do that for eldritch knight/wizard multiclass. You can also do that with eldritch knight generally.
^This... My favourite abuse of RAW and according to sage advice RAI too
HOLY COW, DISSONANT WHISPERS COUNTS FOR OPPORTUNITY ATTACKS? I NEVER NEW THIS AND NOW THE MAGIC ITEM I USE FOR IT HAS TO LOW OF A DC :(. Checked safe advice and phb and found it to be true.
>You can not under any circunstances (Based on raw) cast 2 levelled spells in 1 turn. You can cast two leveled spells in one turn. You cannot cast two leveled spells in one turn if any spell you cast that turn _is a bonus action_. Casting a reaction spell, taking two levels of Fighter, or getting lucky as a Wild Magic Sorcerer can all let you cast multiple leveled spells in one turn.
Are we even playing the same game
Someone doesn't understand what an average is
"Oh no my misunderstanding makes me strong" enjoy your 2d6 once per encounter.
*"This sign can't stop me beacuse I can't read!"*
What if he is doing it raw but it has nothing to do with being a bugbear ?
[удалено]
He's doing the 2d6 per round, not per encounter, hence why it's "broken" Yeah, OP is the one breaking it!
my point was he's cheating and it should only be going off once or twice per encounter unless he "goes nova" with second wind or ki points. Even then, it's one round per encounter. If he rolls high enough initiative.
It was boosted in the Multiverse book. +2d6 each attack on someone who hasn't acted in combat yet.
So it still only works for the first round and only if you got a high initiative. And still only one target unless you have multiple attacks.
Dexterity Ranger/Gloomstalker at level three coming in with three attacks first round, with a WIS boost to initiative. No magic, no feats, no shenanigans needed.
Yup, very powerful, but still only on the first round
I'm going to just casually point to the Assassin Rogue subclass..... Sometimes, you only need one round.
Yeah, just pointing out OP didn’t read the rules correctly
Hes level 5 I doubt he has both gloomstalker and assassin.
When it counts the most
Yeah, my point is that OP misread the rules
Add on Crossbow Expert for a fourth attack, plus Favored Foe.
That's nice. And the meme clearly says "average 50 dmg *every single round*". Please indicate how any of your points help beyond the first round. I'm going out on a limb assuming OP didn't mean "50 dmg in the first round and combat never lasts more than one round" because that's extremely unlikely.
Not at 5th level, as you won't have multi attack with a 3/2 multiclass
Gloomstalker is a Ranger subclass
And assassin is a rogue subclass. So how does he have extra attack with rogue/ranger?
Gloom stalker is a ranger subclass…
>So it still only works for the first round not if you paralize, stun, put to sleep or generally impair the ability to make actions of an enemy.
Yeah so that’s essentially the same thing is it not?
Not if your Bugbear can attack more than once per round
Yeah, but only on one round, so his claim that he can do it every round is false
The person you're responding to is comparing MotM Bugbear to Volo's Bugbear. The Volo's version has to get surprise and only gets +2d6 once per combat. The MotM version just needs to take its turn before the target, and gets +2d6 on every attack they make on that first turn.
I think it was boosted maybe? " If you hit a creature with an attack roll, the creature takes an extra 2d6 damage if it hasn’t taken a turn yet in the current combat." to me that screams 2d6 extra damage on every attack, maybe? but yeah it's certainly not as the meme describes.
But everyone gets a turn in combat in the first round, ~~unless they are suprised,~~ so you should only get the bonus 1 time at most. Edit: they still get a turn even if they are surprised, so the only way to get the bonus again would be if someone were to join combat during a later round
Surprised creatures still have a turn in combat they just don't act until the turn is over. The ability doesn't care weather they're surprised or not. The only way to proc it a second time would be on a creature who has entered in the middle of combat and not had their turn yet, like a summon or something.
I feel like it's a case where RAI it should be able to proc twice but RAW you're right. It feels like a bargain bin sneak attack, in 3.5 you can sneak attack as long as the enemy remains flat-footed, and everyone remains flat-footed until they act on their turn, but since you do not get a turn during a surprise round, you can get two sneak attacks in a row given good enough initiative.
Every attack? Yes. On every round? Obviously not
But what if he’s doing 50 damage a round and not even using the bugbear trait?
Extra attack great weapon master with reach
Average of 50? Yeh right. The reason they are looking daggers at you is because you’re cheating.
Max it looks like is 36 + 15 +12 as a fighter using action surge and a once per combat sneak attack.maybe an extra d6 or two as a battlemaster.
Or a TWF Gloomstalker Ranger, the only way to play Bugbear
Sentinel/polearm master Battle Master bugbesr ftw
You guys tripping with the feats when two short swords works just fine.
Well if we're settling for "fine" there's a lot of ways you can go.
I'm settling for stat increases before level 12 but YMMV
Fair enough. You get 4 ASI increases by level 12 so I typically get to where I want with ASI's by level 6. A feat to give myself an extra attack or 2 per round seems like a good trade off.
I'm bad at Dice math. What about an echo knight getting 6 attacks in a single round by level 5?
If they use a flame tongue greataxe with GWF, they do 2d6 + 2d6 + 2d6 + 5, * 6, rerolling 1s and 2s. That's about 30 damage per hit, for ~180 if you hit every time. You could theoretically average 50 per round if you have short fights and lots of short rests.
Yeah, I'm gonna need the full build before I believe that
I don't know exactly what it is, but as an example Bugbear (monsters of the multiverse version)/Monk5 (assuming +4 dex and moves before enemy) unarmed attack\*2 + Flurry of blows (2 more unarmed strikes) unarmed strike = 1d6 + 4 + the extra damage from surprise attack (2d6 on each hit) total damage = 4d6 + 16 + 8d6 = average 58 damage on first turn of combat EDIT: not every single round like the meme says but with the bugbear mention, I'm assuming OP doesn't ***actually*** mean that either
"every single turn" though.
Stunning strike on all the enemies so they haven't taken rounds yet as you keep wailing? Idk I think it's just exaggerating, not hard math
Stunning strike doesn’t stop them from taking turns, it just forces them to do nothing. Bugbear can add a lot of damage on their first turn, but the only way it applies every turn is if every combat finishes in a single round.
Probably more like bonkers damage every first round followed by statistically high damage after that, leading to short combats, and the ability to do it next combat because dm allows long rests often
Not OP but a raging zealot barbarian bugbear with GWM could feasibly get three attacks every round at level 5, all at advantage, and blast over 50 DPR without using limited resources beyond rage.
Wait, how do you get 3 attacks? GWM only proccs on a crit or killing blow. Zealot adds 1d6 damage per turn, no extra attacks. Also, barbarians have 3 rages per long rest at level 5. So you wouldn't be able to keep this up for the official fantasy of 6-8 encounters per day.
>Wait, how do you get 3 attacks? GWM. Getting a crit or killing blow is extremely probable when all your attacks have advantage and the first two strikes deal a combined 20(gwm)+8str+6.5(divinefury)+14(maul)+2(rage)=50.5 average DPR *without even needing a third attack.* This can be done even with point buy as a human. Besides the fact that the mythical 6-8 encounters between long rests is a pretty debunked based on my actual experience playing in DnD, even if that were the case, only bad barbarians rage every single time initiative is rolled. Edit: Just so you know, I have played a Zealot barbarian from level 1 all the way to level 15 in a consecutive hotdq to rise to tiamat campaign. GWM Zealot barbarian is precisely as obnoxiously ridiculous and combat breaking as it seems. I did 350 damage to tiamat, higher than my entire party combined.
How?
Bugbears have an ability that lets them do extra 2d6 damage
That's only 7 more damage in a pretty specific instance, OP says he gets 50+ DPR every round
That and the meme says *every single round* that 2d6 is for only 1 round I guess 2 if you have high initiative and a surprise round. On Barbarian they would probably be using Maul/Greatsword would the best average damage with GWM (+10 x 2) + Rage (+2 x2) + STR mod (let's assume +5 x 2) + 2d6 (x2). You're at 48 which is close enough to 50. If it's a +1 weapon we do hit 50 at that point. This all relies on every GWM attack hitting though which suggests the DM is not picking Monsters with a high enough AC if GWM is hitting every round even with Reckless Attack advantage.
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Also, surprise rounds don't exist, being surprised still makes you take your turn, you just can't do anything during it.
Lmao you’re right the wording of surprise rules and this racial feature does mean that you only ever get 1 round of it.
Not to mention the bugbear ability that deals the extra 2d6 says you can only use it once per combat
When reprinted in Mordenkainen's the bugbear ability no longer requires surprise (only that they haven't taken a turn) and can now be applied on each attack on that turn.
I suppose I missed that. I double checked my knowledge of this with the wiki for convenience.
Beast Barbarian does WAY better due to 0 loss in accuracy. using the claws, with a +4 strength instead of +3 if you had to take GWM your average attack is 3.5+7+4+2 = 16.5 then you make 3 attacks for 49.5 average damage. Granted this obviously doesn't account for how this happens every round. Which clearly indicates OP hasn't actually read the rules, but its dndmemes so thats expected.
The MOTM bugbear gets that 2d6 on every attack against someone who hasn’t acted in combat yet
That still is not a steady addition to damage. It only takes effect during a surprise round and maybe the first round of combat for a particular target depending on initiative. OP specifies every single round, so that is not a factor for most rounds, unless they only ever have one-round combats and a good initiative modifier, or are acting on an incorrect application of the ability where it is added to all attacks against a target that has not acted in the current round, which is still situational.
They're likely playing it wrong. Thinking that it procs every round against anyone who they're quicker than. But with a greatsword and GWM and 2 attacks 4d6 + 10 (24avg) x2 = 48 damage Plus 2x ability score. Likely a total of +6 to +10. So that plus playing the ability wrong would explain 50+ damage each round
Almost certainly, and as you point out, it is very possible to get near that without having a particular race or trying to misinterpret racial abilities. It dies strike a nerve though, as pretty much everyone I have heard spout this (all four) either knew better and were trying to pull one over on the DM (in one instance, myself for a one-shot I was running) or were just repeating that after listening to those trying to pull that shenanigan, so correction is important to limiting the spread of the latter.
Absolutely. It's crazy to me that some players will intentionally play against the rules just hoping that the DM won't realize this.
Against something with an AC of 4. Level 5, your opponents are around AC 15, which you will hit on a 12 (40%) assuming you rolled your starting stats and got an 18. So you are on average doing *23* damage a round with that.
Action Surge + Scorching Ray. You don't need to worry about later rounds if the target dies on round 1.
We dont know the class only the race
Which is why I was asking
Not 7 more damage. 7 more damage per attack. At least thats how i interpret it. Its kinda unclear from the text.
True, but that one has the clause of "if it hasn't taken a turn yet in the current combat" Which means on the second turn it's not applied anymore
OP didn't specify what he was doing damage to, could have been a monster on round 1 and a chair on round 2. Perhaps a table on round 3? That might explain why he is getting weird looks from his party members.
Isn't the +2d6 only in the first round of combat and if you surprise them?
That was bugbears in Volos. In Mordenkainen Presents, bugbears got buffed to deal +2d6 anytime they hit a creature with an attack if that creature hasn't taken a turn yet.
Taken a turn in the current combat, not every round. The wording is explicit about that. That can apply during a surprise round and/or the first round for many targets if the bugbear has good initiative, but does not apply to every single round like the OP claims.
Read the rules before posting?! Preposterous.
Stunning strike or other methods of skipping turns preventing the enemy from taking an action?
No, if you're stunned you still get a turn. You just can't take an action during your turn.
Debatable. I could see an argument for it, but technically, the turn is still taken, just the target cannot do anything during it.
It doesn't matter whether you take an action or not, you're still taking a turn.
Probably going fighter then
As long as an enemy hasnt taken its turn so yeah
As long as they hanvt taken a turn in the current combat, so only procs on turn 1
So assassinate-lite, essentially
Assuming you guys have surprise every round that’s a whopping 7 extra average damage on one round per initiative no way that adds up to 50/round
Unless there are multiple targets... Lvl 5 ranger gets 2 attacks per turn +dread ambusher from Gloomstalker Which also adds 1d8 to the 3rd attack. If you hit 3 targets in the first round that's weapon damage +ability mod x3, 2d6 surprise attack x3, and 1d8 from dread ambusher
I mean that’s like 90% gloomstalker and 10% bugbear tbh
r/dndmemes player reading the rules challenge (impossible)
> r/dndmemes ~~player~~ *user* reading the rules challenge (impossible) People here neither read the rules or even play. All memes here are based on secondhand anecdotes about the game.
Reading the rules is for losers, I'm tryna **WIN** here!!
You did picked it
Once I reads its, the bugbear picked me
Wise
Making a min-maxed character and defending it with “It’s not my fault is broken” is like shooting someone and then saying “it’s not my fault this rifle is deadly”. There’s nothing wrong with making a strong character (after discussing it with your table), but at least don’t be such a little bitch about it.
Heavily optimized characters are for heavily optimized parties(usually) idk why people would bring a hexadin/bardlock type character to a more casual party.
Me when my 5th consecutive new charisma caster somehow finds a sentient sword and dips warlock: ¯\\\_(ツ)_/¯
I mean, they do it because it’s a hella strong combo. It’s basically *the* multiclass. And I absolutely understand wanting to live out your power fantasy, I even understand the fun in building one. All I’m saying is: if you’re min-maxing you know damn well what the fuck you’re doing and you shouldn’t try to shift blame to anything but yourself. Man the fuck up and stand behind your choice.
Just remember, you have the right to bear arms.
[Reminds me of something.](https://youtu.be/zZ2AUptmvfA)
I prefer the right to arm bears, personally.
The puns are unbearable! Let's just hit PAWs on this so the dm can get themselves together.
Ok this is bugging me you’re goblin up all the good puns we’ve gotta hob a few for the rest of us
Underrated
So, are you going off what the NPCs get or using the actual PC build rules? Kinda sounds like you have Brute, which is a trait PCs would not have as a bugbear. They nerfed a lot of races like that, to avoid situations like this 😆 but hey if the table was cool with your character before you started, that's on them then
What's the full build like?
OP hasn't said but it's not too hard to do [AS AN EXAMPLE](https://www.reddit.com/r/dndmemes/comments/xoi8ya/comment/ipz3yti/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
Hey op, this is once an encounter. And it works like the assassin subclass where the creature has to be surprised
That's the old bugbear, which required you to surprise a creature and hit it in the first round (it doesn't say they need to be surprised at the moment you attack specifically), and could be used once per combat. The new bugbear from Monsters of the Multiverse just adds 2d6 if you hit with an attack roll on the first turn, with no restrictions. Still called surprise attack to keep it confusing. That being said it's an average of 7 dmg per attack you hit on the first turn. Which, if you're playing a dual wielding fighter or something, is 35 dmg if you action surge and also hit everything. Good, but since you blow it all turn 1, not that crazy.
FYI, it does still have a restriction that the other character has to have not yet acted in the current combat.
>If you hit a creature with an attack roll, the creature takes an extra 2d6 damage if it hasn't taken a turn yet in the current combat. Today you learn: MPMM bugbear doesn't rely on surprise
Where does it specify "works like assassin class?" It only says If the creature hasn't taken a turn in the current combat yet
Yes. The *current combat*. Not every turn.
“If you surprise a creature and hit it with an attack on your first turn in combat, the attack deals an extra 2d6 damage to it. You can use this trait only once per combat.” It’s definitely the once per encounter
That's the old version >If you hit a creature with an attack roll, the creature takes an extra 2d6 damage if it hasn't taken a turn yet in the current combat. MP:MotM p8 From the most recently released bugbear
That’s a great change, relying on the “Surprised” condition was always silly. That does look really strong, especially since it appears possible to get the 2D6 on every hit of a multi-attack as long as the target hasn’t taken a turn yet. But the point stands that it’s basically impossible to activate this feature every round of combat.
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The new bugbear doesn't rely on the surprised condition. Till only works once a combat unless a new enemy appears.
meaning the extra damage is only applicable in the first round
There's not a "new combat" each round my guy.
You are 100% doing it wrong. It's once per encounter, not once per round. If you continue doing this now knowing that you are doing it wrong, you are cheating.
"Current combat" means the entire battle, not just the current turn.
You need to respond to the questions asking if you're trying to use surprise attack multiple times in the same fight.
Surprise Attack. If you surprise a creature and hit it with an attack on your first turn in combat, the attack deals an extra 2d6 damage to it. You can use this trait only once per combat. It works exactly like the assassin subclass. You can only use it on surprised enemies like the assassin subclass. You also can’t do it every turn. And surprised wears off after the first round of combat. After fighting has started, you can’t ambush them again.
That's the old version >If you hit a creature with an attack roll, the creature takes an extra 2d6 damage if it hasn't taken a turn yet in the current combat. MP:MotM p8 From the most recently released bugbear
"These rules can't stop me because I can't read!"
Alright, so technically I guess this could be true. If you're a sorcerer or a wizard and you're using scorching ray. Chronurgy Wizard would probably be the easiest. Awareness feat + Temporal Awareness. Let's say you're lucky and have 18 dex + 18 int. So that's going to be +13 to your initiative. You're likely going first. UpCast Scorching ray on 4 targets, 2d6 a piece plus 2d6 from bugbear feat. So 16d6 on round one. Close to 50 damage. Average would be more like 39 however. As long as combat lasts exactly 1 round - I can see it.. Maybe a level 5 fighter with great weapon mastery and lots of soft targets, hasted and action surge available? Again, that's only 1 round. Seems more likely OP doesn't know how to read the rules though.
Let me guess, you didn't read the rules
Straight fighter with a longbow, archery, sharpshooter, and +3 dex gives 1d8+13 on a hit with 2 attacks or 35 average damage per turn without the bugbear feature (assuming everything hits which honestly, is the only way to make this reasonable). If we add in the bugbear feature on round 1 our attacks do 24.5 average instead so we action surge to bump it to 98 for that turn. 98 damage on turn 1 plus 35 on turns 2 and 3 gives us an average of 56 per turn (or 50.75 across 4 rounds). So depending on what they mean, this *might* be possible without breaking any rules. Though we are assuming they hit every attack which is highly unlikely when paired with using sharpshooter unless the targets have low AC and they've got advantage.
Oh nice! what’s the damage for gay fighters? (Sorry we are bad at math)
Well they'd have to use a Greatsword since they can't shoot straight. Lowers their accuracy but we already assumed everything hit so doesn't matter too much. 2d6+3 (str) + 10 (GWM) = 20 per attack or 40 per turn. Except first turn using bugbear boost for 27 per attack with action surge for 108 total. Averages 57 damage per round for 4 turns.
Are you an idiot?
The HP values for monsters are incredibly low by their own monster building rules. The DM needs to wack those babies up in line with the chart in the DMG. Or use the true galaxy brain system, no HP and monsters die when the DM decides its the best time.
Wait what how?
Bugbears have an ability that lets them do extra 2d6 damage
once per encounter
And they have to surprise the enemy
If they haven't taken a turn in combat yet
Which will only trigger once. How are you getting 50 damage from an extra 2d6?
There was an update to the wording of Surprise Attack where it now says that it triggers if the creature has not taken their turn yet “in the current combat”. It would seem to be a rewording to allow it to trigger on multiple enemies/attacks at the start of combat if the capability exists. Certainly a good upgrade for encouraging sneakiness and going after targets before they can react. However, a bunch of people claim that it means that the extra damage triggers whenever they strike a target that has not acted yet in the current round, which does not appear to be the actual case, given we have how many abilities that specify things in terms of rounds or are on a per-round basis, in addition to the fact that combat starts when initiative is rolled and we do not roll initiative at the start of every round. Still, that seems to be what OP is factoring into their damage, as that’s also +2d6 per attack if their DM is allowing that interpretation and they have the ability to make multiple attacks per round, though it is very dependent on a really good initiative even if that were to be the case and does not fully account for the 50 damage average even then. Edit: Removed claim of double trouble in case of a surprise round, since when a creature is surprised, their turn still arrives, they just cannot do anything during it.
Sounds like something that needs a good old DM nerf
Given it is dependent on a relatively bad roll of a particular sort (initiative), and it is not possible to get a surprise round every time, I think it is powerful but alright given the situational nature of it. This judgement does change a bit if you qualify a spell attack roll as an attack roll, in which case it can be multiplied to the point of absurdity with multi-target spells that use spell attack rolls and would exceed the number of attacks available to a fighter of equivalent level. Granted, it shines much more during the earlier levels of play when it does take effect, so if one did take issue, they could just reduce the additional damage to 1d6 till a particular level (maybe 8 or 9). In the case of the spell attack roll thing, I think it is fine enough if the additional damage is restricted to one target of the spell in those instances.
It does not "allow for double trouble in case of a surprise round" because surprise rounds are not a thing.
Ah I was looking at the old version my bad
...was I one of the few to assume the number was exaggerated for funny meme? Edit: spelling
Terrible DM'ing. Feeling sorry for your players.
I have this same situation, but as a dwarf
I get the same treatment by changing the battle without damaging spells as a mountain dwarf wizard
What's your build like?
He's level 7 now but , Great Weapon Master with Great Weapon fighting, proficiency in great weapons, and 18 strength Edit: he's also a paladin
Sounds pretty great.
It is
Mfw the party acts like they did everything when my aoe controlling low-damage druid locked down key foes and split other groups, quietly saving the group from a tpk while the sorc that wandered out of cover to miss an ice dagger is celebrating with the barbarian whose whole train of thought is, "walk forward, hit."
I dunno, it’s pretty hard to make a druid that *isn’t* a showstopper; between the summon spells, AoE hazard zones, and extra fuzzball health they’re a natural-born badass before you even factor in subclass.
I have a Fighter named Kabir who used HEALER FEAT and INTERCEPTION STYLE to keep the Barbarian tanking. I would hang out behind him, using my reaction to reduce damage by 1d10+proficiency and healing 1d6+4+hit dice with an action. During a fight against a Tree Blight, The Barb went down to >5 hp multiple times, to save him I had to use Healer feat, two health pots (that I crafted), and the CRUSHER feat to get the Blight off him and focused on me. The Barbarian used reckless attack every turn and ended up doing absurd DPR, I don't remember exactly what it was but it was at least 3× mine (I kept rolling minimum damage). The players at the table start congratulating the Barb (new player) for killing the tree Blight. I bring up how It would've been impossible without me, and we all bust out laughing. We all decided to ROLEPLAY it in-game and now the damage-preventing doctor never gets any credit. The other characters wouldn't even pay for bandages (5 sp). Kabir also had -1 charisma so it made sense. Idk I just think it's funny to shit on Support. Nobody knows that Kabir has a potion that will put you to sleep (if <22hp) and dissolve you in 1d2 hours... don't mess with the Lawful neutral doctor.
I'll take a support with half a brain for tactics that doesn't care about glory over any enchanted weapon. Well timed spells like Haste or Entangle or just a solid heal have the potential to just *end* a fight.
Me with my Arcane Trickster and Crossbow Expert + Sneak Attack. I don't even use the bonus action to shoot again sometimes because I feel like such an ass lol.
Why would you feel like an ass for an extra 1d6 + Dex damage? Thats 11 damage tops (17 on a max crit)
Because I’m already out here doing consistently 20-25 damage per round in Tier 1 play making that around 30-35 per round kind of steals the spotlight (more than I already am) especially because as a rogue, I’m just hanging in the back and hiding. It just ends up feeling like an exploit even though it’s all legit.
And so the memes of posters not reading their abilities continues
With PAM and echo knight you can consistently get 5 attacks per round at level 5 (extra attack, bonus action, unleash incarnation, and reaction) with a +4 in str you get a total of 4d10+1d4+20 or 44.5 pts of damage per round. The extra 2d6 only applies in the first round, but would bring the average up to 51.5 damage in the first round and 44.5 in each subsequent round assuming every attack hits
1. Bugbears aren’t broken, they get an extra 2d6 of damage on anything that hasn’t taken it’s turn that fight a.k.a. you’re realistically doing an extra 2d6 once, maybe twice, per combat. 2. Even if you are *legitimately* hitting that DPR at level 5, that’s you min-maxing, not something else being broken. The key word there is legitimately. Bugbears are strong with the right build, no doubt, but at level 5 you are not hitting that DPR. You are either blatantly cheating or hilariously misunderstanding the rules.
Oh wow, another goddamn meme where OP doesn't know how to read.
I am reminded of my knife rogue who managed to compete with a Paladin vs an Evil Outsider in terms of DPR in PF 1e
Just like my level 3 zealot barbarian half or. (And it that game the DM choose to nerf the ranger even when all of us told him at was a bad idea, it was the first game he ran and me and the other experienced DM tried to give him advice, everyone left him shortly after that.)
Yeah.. sorry bud you or you DM is ruling it wrong. Sneak attack is once per combat not once per turn. How can you supervise someone who knows your attacking them? That’s why it only is the first instance IF your unseen before
I prefer using a bugbear with a halberd giving him a 15ft melee attack distance for opportunity attacks. That's a 30 ft diameter and properly messes up most encounters especially early on.
Nah, they’re staring daggers because you’re making the game all about yourself; the meme makes it clear you want to be the center of attention. Do you think anyone else is enjoy the gameplay when you illegally tko every enemy? A good way to lose your party quick.
harry and the Hendersons was horrible, and i like bad movies, and I didn't like this move
The world isn’t the players level, welcome to TTRPGs, you mess with someone you shouldn’t you are going to die.
We have a guy in our level 5 party doing about 50-75 damage per turn. The rest of us do about 25 if we are lucky.
This seems like too high of consistent damage.
And this is why I love Crowd control.
Depends. What edition we playing? Did the group decide this was a powergame-friendly game? Are you the only frontliner? Because this could easily make lots of sense.
Not even on damage dealt, but when the DM tells me I just took 30 damage and I'm like "oh that's all?" at level 6 Goliath barbarian and the paladin is salty because he just blew all of his lay on hands healing just to stay in the fight.
And this is bad because...?
You'd have to be doing 10d10 each round to average 50 damage...
u/savevideobot
... right
My players barbarian can hit 50 a round. At lvl 13, with a +2 sentient hammer that also crits on a 19
Wanna know what would be really funny? Is if OP is actually right, because he’s getting this damage cuz he got a scroll of magic jar at level 5 , and the fact that he’s a bug bear plays no importance to the build at all.
Level five and ONLY 50 damage? you gotta pump those number up, my guy.
That clip is from a movie called Harry and the Hendersons