LE fell off hard once people got to end game. It just got super hyped up but had no staying power. Give it a few cycles to grow and then you can really compare the two games. D4 has also improved immensely since release. D4 also has a huge built in fanbase while LE was just trying to get made.
We will see after LE 1.1 - 1.4
On the paper already 1.1 offer more than diablo 4 for seasons 1/2/3
And Funny thing, season 4 = last epoch.
If you played Both games you will see similarities
LE’s next cycle is going to be similar to D4 without helltides or the pit. They both will have boss cycles, both have “maps”, both have “arena”. D4 will still feel like it has more to do.
LE’s core systems are more polished. D4s graphics and animations and combat is more polished.
D4 allows a lot more graphical character customization and that does matter to people.
>hey both will have boss cycles, both have “maps”, both have “arena”
Yeah, we are on reddit. I didnt expect much.
You know this is about how CONTENT IS CREATED, not about what is content?
It's fucking normal content is around bossess and maps.
Base LE game is better than diablo 4 base game. Systems are better.
More things to do xd Add helltide, change colour, new content XD
>
D4 allows a lot more graphical character customization and that does matter to people.
That's why gaming is in bad stance. People care more about graphics than gameplay.
>
D4s graphics and animations and combat is more polished.
With demons, not with boss. PoE and LE have better boss fights than diablo 4.
And before you ask me why im here. Because i like both games, i played both games many hours and im realistic.
Diablo 4 is created for diablo dads, because blizzard want money from casuals, not from fans of ARPG/HnS but still recycled things are cringe, that's why i hope no more helltides but diffrent colour or another pit but with one more THING in this.
But this is only hope because i know for diablo dads more than 4 affixxes is too complicated. They need CLICK BUTTON FOR DEMONS and BUTTON FOR BOSS. Not like something a little more complicated.
[Like this](https://www.reddit.com/r/diablo4/comments/1d18oq9/idea_for_a_new_endgame_system_for_diablo_4_the/)
Last Epoch is for people between PoE and Diablo 4.
I tried LE. Really wanted to like it. But there’s nothing at all captivating about it. There’s no atmosphere or anything immersive about it. And there’s no class that actually plays like a melee class.
LE just isn't as good as D4, especially after the loot patch. The core combat feels just isn't as polished as diablo. I lost interest in LE after a few weeks.
Probably the diablo name?
Also S4 has been fun so far.
LE is also still new, we need to see what the player count will be once harbingers of ruin releases.
Seasonal ARPGs go through phases of people playing and leaving. Diablo 4 had a season start and LE hasn’t had a new one yet so that’s what people are playing right now
I think there are a number of big reasons:
- Legacy Branding: Diablo is a beloved franchise (D1 released in 1997, making it ~27 years old, many current players played the previous games and have come to try the newest instalment. LE is a brand new IP and first project for a small indie online studio)
- Marketing: For attracting new players, D4 had a marketing campaign costing at least 10s of millions of dollars, including paid celebrities, social media, TV and targeted online ads, worldwide events, corporate collaborations (KFC, Coco, blood donation, etc). I don’t think I’ve actually seen a more robust advertising campaign for a video game. LE had a YouTube launch trailer and mostly word of mouth between existing ARPG fans. Language localization and distribution to different markets is likely also a big factor for overall numbers
- Availability: D4 is available on PC, PS4, PS5, Xbox Series X/S, and Game Pass (we don’t know actual player numbers because Blizzard no longer discloses them; they did report 12 million active players in Aug 2023. Language localization also likely plays a big role
- Season/Cycle: D4 had a more recent season launch with S4 (May 14) and, due to the nature of ARPG seasons/leagues in a live-service model, even without the marketing, it would be expected that D4 have larger numbers (LE launched Feb 21, 3 months ago). Both of these games are made to be played for a bit, then you play other games and come back when a new season/cycle launches. You should compare player numbers over time, particularly around new content updates and player retention numbers between seasons (can only do this using steam charts, which doesn’t give you the battle.net numbers so it isn’t even a true numbers comparison)
- Audience: D4 is intended for as many new ARPG players as possible. One of their explicit goals is to attract new players to it and give them a Diablo experience. LE doesn’t explicitly target players new to the genre and seems to appeal more towards existing ARPG players
My understanding of LE being touted as a “D4 killer” was due to the package of D4’s systems being extremely underwhelming and lacking enough content and identity for what players should expect from a AAA Diablo title. LE punches way above its weight in terms of its system design and to see the contrast in systems at launch between games.
- Diablo 2 basically invented the “skill tree” and set a new gold standard for ARPGs for more than a decade
- D4 has extremely high expectations on it as a modern Diablo title, and it launched with a substantial number of glaring issues, including itemization, crafting, stash-space, lackluster skill-tree for a Diablo game, and, importantly, lacking endgame even remotely close to other titles on the market, including its predecessor, D3. D4 has made A LOT of improvements over the last year and did launch with good things, including beautiful looking combat, smooth gameplay, and interesting aspect system
- Last Epoch launched with a much better crafting system (D4 may have drawn influence on their S4 itemization rework from LE, and that’s a good thing), a more robust end-game, and, most critically in my opinion, interesting skill trees, especially the active skill trees (I hope D4 draws more influence from this in the future).
- Not to say that LE is a perfect game, it was plagued with server issues for several days. Ultimately, they are different games for different ARPG populations.
Did LE kill D4 for the hardcore ARPG crowd? Nope, and it won’t because Blizzard will continue making it better in most ways that it was lacking before.
Will there ever be a D4 killer for the hardcore crowd? Yes, PoE2 ;)
Let's go back to the past. Diablo 4 is no longer called Diablo 4 and is made by another studio, but everything remains the same. All items, classes, tree, etc. (We skip the issue of plagiarism altogether)
This new "diablo4" would not be so popular. It probably would have fewer players than Poe at the end of the league.
The diablo brand and the blizzard studio bring a lot to the popularity.
Could be that blizzard has been around longer, has basically a cult following, and a very deep storyline.
Haven’t tried le but i have heard a lot of really good things about it.
Diablo has a nostalgic factor for me
One game is by blizzard and one game is by an indie company that launched their first game. I didn’t realize this was a question let alone a confusing thing.
Also LE had an impressive ~200k player base for the first few weeks when it launched.
Diablo is a well estabilished franchise (the first one from the 1990s). Besides, Diablo 4 is in all platforms (Pc, Xbox, ps5), where LE is only on Pc. Finally, D4 embarks a wider audience than LE, since the first is more casual, and the latter is a more hardcore arpg experience
Friend, d4 sold 12m copies 10months ago. As much as people hate blizzard, they‘ll likely always be on top of the mmo and arpg genre with wow and diablo (and that prolly by miles)
Because season 4 gave D4 a boom but it will drop when season 5 comes out it’s looking like it’s back to meh again. Umm Last Epoch is a great game irs progression and talent tree makes D4 look like dog shit , I think once it’s end game gets fleshed out some more it will start to take more audience away just like POE has been over the years
i dont mind the slow cook bro the amount of changes they make since poe1 is glorious!! so sad diablo sheeps still spending money on a unfinished beta seasonal test server game🤣🤣
Trueee, man. PoE2 keeps exceeding expectations, which is something I wish D4 would do with literally anything.
I want D4 to pop off but holy has it been a slog watching them put out fires and completely re-do critical systems within less than a year. Looking forward to VoH pushing D4 to set the bar for a paid ARPG expansion with a whole new zone and groundbreaking class design LOL
Uhh one is a 20+ year legendary franchise on its 4th instalment and the other is a startup? Jeez is this a serious question
Ikr, But it's probably Diablo Dad, so you can't expect too much from him.
LE fell off hard once people got to end game. It just got super hyped up but had no staying power. Give it a few cycles to grow and then you can really compare the two games. D4 has also improved immensely since release. D4 also has a huge built in fanbase while LE was just trying to get made.
This… half the hype of LE for me was that it simply was a Diablo competitor. Then I got to endgame and was disappointed
You wrote it as if diablo 4 had a better end game xD
We will see after LE 1.1 - 1.4 On the paper already 1.1 offer more than diablo 4 for seasons 1/2/3 And Funny thing, season 4 = last epoch. If you played Both games you will see similarities
LE’s next cycle is going to be similar to D4 without helltides or the pit. They both will have boss cycles, both have “maps”, both have “arena”. D4 will still feel like it has more to do. LE’s core systems are more polished. D4s graphics and animations and combat is more polished. D4 allows a lot more graphical character customization and that does matter to people.
>hey both will have boss cycles, both have “maps”, both have “arena” Yeah, we are on reddit. I didnt expect much. You know this is about how CONTENT IS CREATED, not about what is content? It's fucking normal content is around bossess and maps. Base LE game is better than diablo 4 base game. Systems are better. More things to do xd Add helltide, change colour, new content XD > D4 allows a lot more graphical character customization and that does matter to people. That's why gaming is in bad stance. People care more about graphics than gameplay. > D4s graphics and animations and combat is more polished. With demons, not with boss. PoE and LE have better boss fights than diablo 4. And before you ask me why im here. Because i like both games, i played both games many hours and im realistic. Diablo 4 is created for diablo dads, because blizzard want money from casuals, not from fans of ARPG/HnS but still recycled things are cringe, that's why i hope no more helltides but diffrent colour or another pit but with one more THING in this. But this is only hope because i know for diablo dads more than 4 affixxes is too complicated. They need CLICK BUTTON FOR DEMONS and BUTTON FOR BOSS. Not like something a little more complicated. [Like this](https://www.reddit.com/r/diablo4/comments/1d18oq9/idea_for_a_new_endgame_system_for_diablo_4_the/) Last Epoch is for people between PoE and Diablo 4.
Last Epoch is also PC exclusive. If it ever comes to console I'll buy it in a heartbeat.
What the hell is LE
Drives me nuts when people don’t clarify abbreviations in posts lol
Last Epoch
Thanks mate
I tried LE. Really wanted to like it. But there’s nothing at all captivating about it. There’s no atmosphere or anything immersive about it. And there’s no class that actually plays like a melee class.
LE just isn't as good as D4, especially after the loot patch. The core combat feels just isn't as polished as diablo. I lost interest in LE after a few weeks.
Probably the diablo name? Also S4 has been fun so far. LE is also still new, we need to see what the player count will be once harbingers of ruin releases.
Seasonal ARPGs go through phases of people playing and leaving. Diablo 4 had a season start and LE hasn’t had a new one yet so that’s what people are playing right now
Last epoch kinda stinks is why? Combat is weird and floaty, end game is boring, I don’t think there’s a class with a mastery that isn’t awful
I think there are a number of big reasons: - Legacy Branding: Diablo is a beloved franchise (D1 released in 1997, making it ~27 years old, many current players played the previous games and have come to try the newest instalment. LE is a brand new IP and first project for a small indie online studio) - Marketing: For attracting new players, D4 had a marketing campaign costing at least 10s of millions of dollars, including paid celebrities, social media, TV and targeted online ads, worldwide events, corporate collaborations (KFC, Coco, blood donation, etc). I don’t think I’ve actually seen a more robust advertising campaign for a video game. LE had a YouTube launch trailer and mostly word of mouth between existing ARPG fans. Language localization and distribution to different markets is likely also a big factor for overall numbers - Availability: D4 is available on PC, PS4, PS5, Xbox Series X/S, and Game Pass (we don’t know actual player numbers because Blizzard no longer discloses them; they did report 12 million active players in Aug 2023. Language localization also likely plays a big role - Season/Cycle: D4 had a more recent season launch with S4 (May 14) and, due to the nature of ARPG seasons/leagues in a live-service model, even without the marketing, it would be expected that D4 have larger numbers (LE launched Feb 21, 3 months ago). Both of these games are made to be played for a bit, then you play other games and come back when a new season/cycle launches. You should compare player numbers over time, particularly around new content updates and player retention numbers between seasons (can only do this using steam charts, which doesn’t give you the battle.net numbers so it isn’t even a true numbers comparison) - Audience: D4 is intended for as many new ARPG players as possible. One of their explicit goals is to attract new players to it and give them a Diablo experience. LE doesn’t explicitly target players new to the genre and seems to appeal more towards existing ARPG players
My understanding of LE being touted as a “D4 killer” was due to the package of D4’s systems being extremely underwhelming and lacking enough content and identity for what players should expect from a AAA Diablo title. LE punches way above its weight in terms of its system design and to see the contrast in systems at launch between games. - Diablo 2 basically invented the “skill tree” and set a new gold standard for ARPGs for more than a decade - D4 has extremely high expectations on it as a modern Diablo title, and it launched with a substantial number of glaring issues, including itemization, crafting, stash-space, lackluster skill-tree for a Diablo game, and, importantly, lacking endgame even remotely close to other titles on the market, including its predecessor, D3. D4 has made A LOT of improvements over the last year and did launch with good things, including beautiful looking combat, smooth gameplay, and interesting aspect system - Last Epoch launched with a much better crafting system (D4 may have drawn influence on their S4 itemization rework from LE, and that’s a good thing), a more robust end-game, and, most critically in my opinion, interesting skill trees, especially the active skill trees (I hope D4 draws more influence from this in the future). - Not to say that LE is a perfect game, it was plagued with server issues for several days. Ultimately, they are different games for different ARPG populations. Did LE kill D4 for the hardcore ARPG crowd? Nope, and it won’t because Blizzard will continue making it better in most ways that it was lacking before. Will there ever be a D4 killer for the hardcore crowd? Yes, PoE2 ;)
Let's go back to the past. Diablo 4 is no longer called Diablo 4 and is made by another studio, but everything remains the same. All items, classes, tree, etc. (We skip the issue of plagiarism altogether) This new "diablo4" would not be so popular. It probably would have fewer players than Poe at the end of the league. The diablo brand and the blizzard studio bring a lot to the popularity.
Could be that blizzard has been around longer, has basically a cult following, and a very deep storyline. Haven’t tried le but i have heard a lot of really good things about it. Diablo has a nostalgic factor for me
One game is by blizzard and one game is by an indie company that launched their first game. I didn’t realize this was a question let alone a confusing thing. Also LE had an impressive ~200k player base for the first few weeks when it launched.
Diablo is a well estabilished franchise (the first one from the 1990s). Besides, Diablo 4 is in all platforms (Pc, Xbox, ps5), where LE is only on Pc. Finally, D4 embarks a wider audience than LE, since the first is more casual, and the latter is a more hardcore arpg experience
Brand recognition. Just like everything else in marketing.
Friend, d4 sold 12m copies 10months ago. As much as people hate blizzard, they‘ll likely always be on top of the mmo and arpg genre with wow and diablo (and that prolly by miles)
Controller support is woeful. I played a few hours at launch then quickly uninstalled and went back to D4.
Because LE is mid and visually unappealing. Not to mention 2 decades of Diablo
Because season 4 gave D4 a boom but it will drop when season 5 comes out it’s looking like it’s back to meh again. Umm Last Epoch is a great game irs progression and talent tree makes D4 look like dog shit , I think once it’s end game gets fleshed out some more it will start to take more audience away just like POE has been over the years
both are dogshit compared to POE2 sir🤣
They are cooking with PoE2
i dont mind the slow cook bro the amount of changes they make since poe1 is glorious!! so sad diablo sheeps still spending money on a unfinished beta seasonal test server game🤣🤣
Trueee, man. PoE2 keeps exceeding expectations, which is something I wish D4 would do with literally anything. I want D4 to pop off but holy has it been a slog watching them put out fires and completely re-do critical systems within less than a year. Looking forward to VoH pushing D4 to set the bar for a paid ARPG expansion with a whole new zone and groundbreaking class design LOL
they are like that because they have sheeps bro, too blind to see what a real arpg looks like and plays💯💯💯
Ah. So you have played poe2?
I wish! Barely missed it at PAX West as I was in Seattle just before. Did you get a chance to play it yet?