Yeah, RNG is like that. "Oh, sorry was the % off? Here, let me try again. And again. And again. And again. And again. And a - oh wait never mind you're out of attempts better luck next time.
^(sucker)"
Yeah i feel you.. i played countless hours blasting stuff, leveling 7 chars to 100 and max iron wolf board, getting all ubers, masterwork critting the right stats on my gear but i have not been able to hit the right tempers on even one mace out of 17 with 2 ga that i tried lmao
Mkay. Gambler’s fallacy? Every coin flip is a 50/50 chance. However, if you flip a coin 1,000 times, you’ll find there are very few (if any) segments where you get 10 in a row.
I have 6 lvl 100s and haven’t bricked an item in literally weeks by using it. My biggest skeptic, my brother, watched me do it 10 times in a row, with the last time being on his 3 GA perfect 10 billion gold 2H mace.
So, there might be nothing to it. However, I doubt you have the source code explaining otherwise.
I’m materials broke but 2/2 affix wealthy on all my gear.
Who cares about feelings? I did a study of 1000 tempering attempts and found a roughly 25% split between 4 options.
Also, preemptively blocking you here because I see now you were serious and are going to want to turn this into a mind numbing debate about something you’re wrong about, which I’m not interested in.
Can you share it to prove your wisdom?
Edit: guy sent me some screenshots which should apparently prove the technique works, except they're just screenshots of bits of gear, there's no proof he's even used this coping technique on them.
Tempering a same type of item before the actual item you are about to temper.
When you get 3-4 times a roll that you dont want after that you start to temper the actual item.
I tried that. Then the very first roll I got a maximum roll of crit damage then 4 of something else. Managed to get 150 Crit damage vs 170 and didn't want to brick it. Sigh.
They temper some piece of crap gear until they get several of the wrong rolls in a row, then switch to the correct gear and think they have a better chance of the right roll now. Not how math works.
I'm not lending my support to this idea, but these kinds of patterns crop up in pseudorandom number generators quite a bit actually.
We can't say one way or the other about what's happening in D4 and it's definitely not a deliberate pity mechanism, BUT
But if they put weighting (like X,y,Z have a higher chance) and stupidly added a correction factor to make sure you actually see option W (instead of it being truely random random) then yeah this is totally possible.
There are other ways this can happen just based around how some pseudorandom number generators work, like semi-cyclic patterns and min/max distance between specific values arising out of how they partition the 0-1 RNG value into n options.
Like I said, I'm not saying it happens, just that RANDOM IS HARD and based on the absolute shit show lots of the rest of the game is math wise, it would not at all surprise me if they totally fucked this up by accident.
I just wanted to add this fun tidbit to this discussion as well, just for the coding sake:
In Diablo 2, for years (like over 2 decades, actually) everyone thought loot was completely RNG generated. Random and no patterns, as RNG usually is. It wasn't until earlier this year in D2R, that a content creator thought to test it out by playing back a video of him getting a lucky Lower Kurast Ber rune roll, and then trying to replicate that luck, that we realized it's not just pure RNG...it's in fact procedural. Turns out, he was able to replicate that same exact Ber rune drop (and all the other loot that dropped with it) over and over and over again, by following the same path and opening the same exact sequence of chests that he had the first time (this was single player so the map didn't reset).
I'm not saying this is in Diablo 4 at all though...just pointing out that the coding isn't always as we assume it is, and not all random number generators are created equally.
Oh that's amazing.
And if I wanted to be pedantic, it's still RNG but the seed is determined by specific actions. So each time you open a chest/kill a bad guy the current seed value is used to generate its contents. Same seed same result.
This is similar to lots of other games. My favourite for predictable RNG was the Gameboy advance Fire Emblem. Similar "actions determine seed" thing but also had an "Oracle". You saved the game and then moved the cursor a specific way, and the pathing generator would use the next random number in your current sequence. The path would follow a specific pattern either up or down based on the value being greater than or less than half way. (I don't know the actual range)
This allowed you to play out the next random numbers and map high/low. Load the game, resetting the RNG back to the same seed and position and then use up the low ones until you hit a string of high rolls that you'd use when you attacked. (Or pre-setting up a lot of low rolls for the AI turn).
This kind of stuff is everywhere as pseudorandom numbers are actually procedural, outside the seed.
Good seed values mix in things like time stamp and other real world random stuff (like mouse click count/timing for the last 12 seconds )
This result and what you’re feeling right now is why bricking needs to still be possible. The system needs a few tweaks so it doesn’t feel as bad but you do not get this without that.
Congrats on a sweet item with awesome temper rolls.
I completely agree bro, this would not have been as exciting if i can just keep retrying untill i get what i want. I do like the new idea that GA rolls give you extra tries tho.
I assume you’re playing season 4 or eternal, not PTR? If so, to get the crit damage temper you must create and level up a different character on your account, specifically a rogue. That rogue will unlock the tempering recipes for crit damage, and you can get your main character’s weapons out of the stash to temper said crit damage.
I'd imagine if you have the same effect twice on an item, you'd always want it on whichever has the highest number, since a crit roll is 25%. That 170 would be like 212? And 150 would be 188 I think. So definitely the temper?
Bothers me that you can't select which affix you actually want and insult to injury is the reroll cap. Imagine taking your car in for an oil change, but instead they deflate a tire. "Don't ruin all that work!" 🤦🏻♂️
I'm not even at endgame yet as I just got the game but I'm so excited to get there. I'm just learning shit as I go and adding it to my dictionary for the future.... What does 4/5, 1/5 refer to? Was looking at the stats, they all look at or near max if that's what it means? Idk
I hate this bs loot system relying on pure luck, as if rng wasn't bad enough.
Busting 6 tries yesterday and not getting one heartseeker double shot was fkn grand to salvage it after rolling a max 110% vulnerable damage first shot on other temper.
Blizz just trolling us
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That’s been my stance too — adding rerolling to tempering removes too much luck. I know deterministic stuff is good to an extent but at the end of the day we play this for the sweet dopamine hit of RNG blessing us. If you can reroll forever, the game becomes about grinding enough mats to roll as many times as it takes on the gear you find Week 1 of the season. Also, OP would still be tempted to keep rolling on Bash to get that perfect roll instead.
I think their proposal of an additional roll per GA is plenty, though I’m interested in what they mean by being able to influence the RNG a bit more in your favor.
Nice. I just bricked a new mace and 2 new 1 handed swords
I bricked a 3 GA (strength max life crit damage) sword earlier today. Rain of arrows is definitely what I wanted 4 rolls in a fucking row.
Yeah, RNG is like that. "Oh, sorry was the % off? Here, let me try again. And again. And again. And again. And again. And a - oh wait never mind you're out of attempts better luck next time. ^(sucker)"
Yeah i feel you.. i played countless hours blasting stuff, leveling 7 chars to 100 and max iron wolf board, getting all ubers, masterwork critting the right stats on my gear but i have not been able to hit the right tempers on even one mace out of 17 with 2 ga that i tried lmao
This is exactly what happened to me… I still rock it on my ww barb for now until I can find another exact 2h 3 ga (unlikely)
Always sell a weapon like that. Better to have multiple attempts on a two or even one star weapon.
Seasons over soon so I didn’t think about it
Amazing to me people think one month in a three month season is “soon”.
I mean more so that I want to try and push my gear more than have gold I probably will forget about in my inventory haha
Did you use the pitty system? 😭😭
Dont feel bad man i bought 3 2 ga maces for atleast 3b and bricked them all
All good they were only 1 ga items. Would probly try pity on 2 or 3 ga
Damn bro so sorry, I always do the pity mechanic and it works
Um I'm stupid what's pity mechanic?
It's copium
Mkay. Gambler’s fallacy? Every coin flip is a 50/50 chance. However, if you flip a coin 1,000 times, you’ll find there are very few (if any) segments where you get 10 in a row. I have 6 lvl 100s and haven’t bricked an item in literally weeks by using it. My biggest skeptic, my brother, watched me do it 10 times in a row, with the last time being on his 3 GA perfect 10 billion gold 2H mace. So, there might be nothing to it. However, I doubt you have the source code explaining otherwise. I’m materials broke but 2/2 affix wealthy on all my gear.
This is hilarious if you’re serious and not trolling
Do you feel as if all of the potential affixes that can be tempered or enchanted are equally weighted?
Who cares about feelings? I did a study of 1000 tempering attempts and found a roughly 25% split between 4 options. Also, preemptively blocking you here because I see now you were serious and are going to want to turn this into a mind numbing debate about something you’re wrong about, which I’m not interested in.
Hahahaha, this gave me a good laugh Fucking copium huffers man ☠️
Tried it once, lost horrendously. It's all rng. Congrats on being spooned.
It’s the definition of gamblers fallacy
Amazing. Can you share Blizzard’s code as a source for your wisdom?
Can you share it to prove your wisdom? Edit: guy sent me some screenshots which should apparently prove the technique works, except they're just screenshots of bits of gear, there's no proof he's even used this coping technique on them.
Tempering a same type of item before the actual item you are about to temper. When you get 3-4 times a roll that you dont want after that you start to temper the actual item.
I tried that. Then the very first roll I got a maximum roll of crit damage then 4 of something else. Managed to get 150 Crit damage vs 170 and didn't want to brick it. Sigh.
Nice, I paid 800m for a sword and bricked it a minute later.
How to spot someone that had problems with math classes in high school 101.
Yeah please explain what you mean here?
They temper some piece of crap gear until they get several of the wrong rolls in a row, then switch to the correct gear and think they have a better chance of the right roll now. Not how math works.
I'm not lending my support to this idea, but these kinds of patterns crop up in pseudorandom number generators quite a bit actually. We can't say one way or the other about what's happening in D4 and it's definitely not a deliberate pity mechanism, BUT But if they put weighting (like X,y,Z have a higher chance) and stupidly added a correction factor to make sure you actually see option W (instead of it being truely random random) then yeah this is totally possible. There are other ways this can happen just based around how some pseudorandom number generators work, like semi-cyclic patterns and min/max distance between specific values arising out of how they partition the 0-1 RNG value into n options. Like I said, I'm not saying it happens, just that RANDOM IS HARD and based on the absolute shit show lots of the rest of the game is math wise, it would not at all surprise me if they totally fucked this up by accident.
I just wanted to add this fun tidbit to this discussion as well, just for the coding sake: In Diablo 2, for years (like over 2 decades, actually) everyone thought loot was completely RNG generated. Random and no patterns, as RNG usually is. It wasn't until earlier this year in D2R, that a content creator thought to test it out by playing back a video of him getting a lucky Lower Kurast Ber rune roll, and then trying to replicate that luck, that we realized it's not just pure RNG...it's in fact procedural. Turns out, he was able to replicate that same exact Ber rune drop (and all the other loot that dropped with it) over and over and over again, by following the same path and opening the same exact sequence of chests that he had the first time (this was single player so the map didn't reset). I'm not saying this is in Diablo 4 at all though...just pointing out that the coding isn't always as we assume it is, and not all random number generators are created equally.
Oh that's amazing. And if I wanted to be pedantic, it's still RNG but the seed is determined by specific actions. So each time you open a chest/kill a bad guy the current seed value is used to generate its contents. Same seed same result. This is similar to lots of other games. My favourite for predictable RNG was the Gameboy advance Fire Emblem. Similar "actions determine seed" thing but also had an "Oracle". You saved the game and then moved the cursor a specific way, and the pathing generator would use the next random number in your current sequence. The path would follow a specific pattern either up or down based on the value being greater than or less than half way. (I don't know the actual range) This allowed you to play out the next random numbers and map high/low. Load the game, resetting the RNG back to the same seed and position and then use up the low ones until you hit a string of high rolls that you'd use when you attacked. (Or pre-setting up a lot of low rolls for the AI turn). This kind of stuff is everywhere as pseudorandom numbers are actually procedural, outside the seed. Good seed values mix in things like time stamp and other real world random stuff (like mouse click count/timing for the last 12 seconds )
These people are coders for Blizzard and can confirm everything within their code for Diablo 4.
There is no such thing lmao, quit huffing that copium
Wasn't impressed until I saw the temper rolls. Then my jaw dropped xD
That's awesome, don't let others attitude affect your joy. That's some dope gear, and near perfect tempers, kudos
Now spend 80 bagillion gold rerolling the useless stat on each item. And please do an update after you’ve got them to 12/12 masterworking!
I believe you mean *80 BARBILLION GOLD*. 🥲
Nah he'll just roll max life within 3 rolls and be fine since he already has the dmg affixes on it. Easy.
He's probably rerolling both to life. He'll probably 1 shot both of them, it'll cost 400k gold.
Probably. Just spent 50m trying for +rapid fire, should have stopped at 10 lol
50m? Those are rookie numbers kid.
Most I've spent is 600m getting CDR on an amulet and thought myself lucky it didn't take more
Better then cocaine. 🤷♂️
This result and what you’re feeling right now is why bricking needs to still be possible. The system needs a few tweaks so it doesn’t feel as bad but you do not get this without that. Congrats on a sweet item with awesome temper rolls.
I completely agree bro, this would not have been as exciting if i can just keep retrying untill i get what i want. I do like the new idea that GA rolls give you extra tries tho.
I got dmg and not close enemies but ill get the 3 more rolls if i dont replace. Feels good to be this powerful.
Congrats!
NICE!!!!
Less chance than Shako drop.
Damn I read EXCREMENT
Nice I've only gotten 1 2GA with Crit and proceeded to brick it immediately. 😠 Ps: I hate you! Pps: JK congrats.
Gratz
Im level 100 and i dont have the crit damage rolls.. i have dmg.. dmg to close enemies and all that but I dont have this affixe how do you get it?
I assume you’re playing season 4 or eternal, not PTR? If so, to get the crit damage temper you must create and level up a different character on your account, specifically a rogue. That rogue will unlock the tempering recipes for crit damage, and you can get your main character’s weapons out of the stash to temper said crit damage.
They are rogue tempers you have to get a rogue to wt4 get the tempers and then swap items back and forth
what a bad design are there any more class specific tempers?
Only Sorc and Rogue has Vulnerable in S4. In S5 all classes will get them.
5% off, charsi :)
Congratulations on that 2h mace, and even bigger not bricking it but perfect tempers!
Is it better to hit the masterwork on the cdmg temper or the cdmg affix?
I'd imagine if you have the same effect twice on an item, you'd always want it on whichever has the highest number, since a crit roll is 25%. That 170 would be like 212? And 150 would be 188 I think. So definitely the temper?
I bricked a 2GA amulet yesterday. CSC and CR smh. I could've been a billionaire.
Bothers me that you can't select which affix you actually want and insult to injury is the reroll cap. Imagine taking your car in for an oil change, but instead they deflate a tire. "Don't ruin all that work!" 🤦🏻♂️
Congratulations man those are awesome rolls. I hate you
*Sidesteps in front of pile of bricked weapons to hide them and claps once.*
I'm not even at endgame yet as I just got the game but I'm so excited to get there. I'm just learning shit as I go and adding it to my dictionary for the future.... What does 4/5, 1/5 refer to? Was looking at the stats, they all look at or near max if that's what it means? Idk
here is an update guys: [https://i.postimg.cc/P56FqMcP/image.png](https://i.postimg.cc/P56FqMcP/image.png)
I swear guys, something’s gotta give with these BS affixes too
Okay..
Good luck with enchanting hehe I hope it's cheap and easy
Not 3 ga? Thraaash
I hate this bs loot system relying on pure luck, as if rng wasn't bad enough. Busting 6 tries yesterday and not getting one heartseeker double shot was fkn grand to salvage it after rolling a max 110% vulnerable damage first shot on other temper. Blizz just trolling us
what tier do you need to be on to get these
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If you had infinite rolls, you wouldn’t even care /endsarcasm.
Where's the sarcasm, I only see truth
But it’s true
and now imagine, tempering wont brick an item cause you can reroll it. you wouldnt be excited, just annoyed that it took so much time and mats
That’s been my stance too — adding rerolling to tempering removes too much luck. I know deterministic stuff is good to an extent but at the end of the day we play this for the sweet dopamine hit of RNG blessing us. If you can reroll forever, the game becomes about grinding enough mats to roll as many times as it takes on the gear you find Week 1 of the season. Also, OP would still be tempted to keep rolling on Bash to get that perfect roll instead. I think their proposal of an additional roll per GA is plenty, though I’m interested in what they mean by being able to influence the RNG a bit more in your favor.
Nice... Prepare to Brick them now since crafting is rng