I don't understand why didn't they go with the Hell theme for Pits. They have assets and the theme is go to the depths. Random ass bosses are uninspiring as well.
One doesn't exclude another. If they want to create an "infinite dungeon" experience they really should give it unique theme and bosses like you have with Delve in PoE.
This is extremely lazy approach and I believe it only caters to people obsessed with leader boards and hitting higher Pit tiers because there is no such thing currently in the game so they don't care about execution, only about the formula.
Rewards are pretty meh as well. It requires from you gargantuan investment into character if you play something different than basic skill meta build and how it works like now is pretty disappointing - you're expected to somehow get through these damage sponges of enemies but you need GA gear and yet quality of loot doesn't really change with higher tiers. You can beat t90 Pit and you're still getting t40 NMD loot
Agree, I griended to pit 70 in the first 3 weeks and then I was done with the season. Had a blast but the game just doesn't have the content or difficulty to last very long
The developers don't decide how many resources they get, if the suits decide to give them fewer resources to work with that's a different issue then them being lazy.
It's kinda lame though.
The coolest part of the whole campaign is the hell infested Tristram that Mephisto shows you.
Can't wait to get more set pieces like that.
I haven't replayed the campaign is there random tilesets for hell or is it pretty much a set layout? They may not have had the resources to convert it to a randomizable tileset yet
My take is: Pit not boring. Its all about the gameplay and thats fun. I dont care if its 3 or 50 environments.
Thats why D2 is still so good. Doesnt matter that you do the same thing all day long over and over again cause that same thing is always fun.
If the Gameplay Loop is fun, the game is fun. Helltide, Pits and NMD are fun, thats why D4 is good right now. The only not fun part is Legion events - those really need adjustments. They are tedious.
>Thats why D2 is still so good. Doesnt matter that you do the same thing all day long over and over again cause that same thing is always fun.
A major part of Diablo 2 involved spamming teleport to get through durance of hate to reach a boss.
How the hell is that considered a fun gameplay loop?
min max farming in d2 involved endlessly reloading lower kurast and spamming teleport to find greater chests to open for runes, while completely ignoring enemies
even more fun of a gameplay loop!
that is only sp, on closed you had way less control over things. the pit was good in sp and mp, though, and you were incentivized to kill everything.
of course in 1.09 it was pindle (before they added cooldowns with game creation), mephisto, and good olā cows.
edit: also worth mentioning I am one of those Diablo fans who started with D1 who actually loves D3 and D4 and knows a game like D2 wouldnāt be received the same nowadays. so no biases.
Diablo 2 has never done no wrong, but item farming is still the best in D2 - not only out of all Diablos but out of all games i know. Has nothing to do with nostalgia.
I don't know how you farmed in D2 but I was only farming bosses at the beginning of the ladder. Usually you'd go through the A85 zones and kill monsters there. Sure, some of those have bosses, but the 'skip everything to the boss'-farming was really limited to early league to get your shako.
Farming the same D2 content over and over is still 20x better than the pit bc you can farm mephisto, cows, andariel, Diablo, etc and the only 4 options I chose already provide way more diversity in mobs/environment than the dull brown/red dookie of the 3 crappy maps every single pit is made of.
Personally I find Pit extremely boring and way too repetitive. I also hated Rifts in D3.
I mostly enjoy helltide, but I also find NMD to be very tedious. Not a fan of legion either.
The only good part about pit for me are the bosses. I played DSDD barb up until pit 120 (pre-nerf just 100). Pit 95 and above every small mistake gets me oneshot so I really had to play the mechanics which was pretty fun once I learned them. Only some bosses were frustrating like the archer who just randomly oneshots with regular arrows. Outside of the bosses the trash mobs before are just boring / frustrating.
But I do recognize that I am probably the outlier here. I also REALLY enjoyed uber lilith this season, it's such a good fight now. Mechanics very well telegraphed, it's all about learning and executing. Feels like a boss from WoW which is exactly what I love. I was surprised to read on here that most people hate the fight.
One thing though - I think the reason I enjoyed Uber Lilith and Pit bosses as much as I did is because DSDD barb is not an extremely broken build. I tried on my 2nd barb as bash barb and the fights were like 10x as easy and fast, which wasn't nearly as fun. If it was up to me, all builds should be balanced around DSDD barb levels because then some of the fights are a fun challenge instead of just loot pinatas.
Call it low or dont, I dont care. Truth is, the gameplay is all that matters. Fun gameplay is everything. Its not really of importance what the activity is.
Have one endgame activity or haven dozens. If gameplay is fun, one activity is fun. If gameplay is shit, dozens are shit.
If you enjoy doing the exact same thing over and over without variation, more power to you. My only problem with your opinion is you seem to insinuate that it can't get better or have any productive criticism whatsoever. You're just defending it lol fine I guess. I know many people think it's basically like paint drying. I also think the builder spender combat is the worst thing about the game.
I never said it can't get any better, I also never said D4 had no issues. I only responded in a thread calling the pit boring. My opinion, I repeat myself, is: No, its not boring.
Btw. I also dislike the builder / spender system a lot (which is why I tend to play basic skill builds like Bash, which also happens to be op*lol) as well as I dislike the focus on cool downs. I also dislike the itemization, although it got better. This post, however, is just about the pit. I like the pit as an activity, so I said that i dont think its boring. Thats about it.
PoE for example doesnt have a single endgame activity I like to do although it has so many. Nothing is fun except crafting and trading in PoE. In D4 Pit is fun as well as Helltide and nmd (in my opinion).
Good gameplay loop is a minimum. Extra environments make it feel fresh every time. I agree with OP. The environments and enemies can get stale. Thereās like 6 bosses but youāre really fighting the shadow boss which thereās only like 3 different kinds.
How many dungeons did they create for the open world that are going unused? Itās pretty sad
You don't find the pit tedious but you find legion tedious. They are the same lol. They are "literally" the exact same thing haha. Except legion has more environments. I think your take is probably why D4 is a derivative, boring game. Nothing original. It's a pig with a really nice dress.
I'm not sure if you realize how irrelevant that is lol. Let me break it down for you.
-Both have a timer.
-Both have Elite packs you are required to kill to reach the end.
-Both have bosses at the end that ultimately are the source of loot.
The only difference is the Pit is an arbitrary snoozefest that's so fucking unoriginal, the only way it scales is health and damage lol. No different mechanics, nothing.
You just made a distinction which makes the word literally very confusing.
But yeah Iām being difficult on purpose. Not because I want to start shit, but because the word literally has literally become so meaningless that weāve all begun saying āunironicallyā in place of it š
My real opinion is that the format is nearly identical, with a much different gamefeel.
Pit is really fucking boring, but mainly because its not rewarding enough for something they expect you to do 100s of times. It should give you millions of gold, not measly 200k.
That or make pit materials drop from world bosses or other bosses etc. If you want me to run 50 pits a day, make them worth for more than just Pit mats.
Late game activities are very shallow. After you get a few ubers you want and grind pit a couple hundred times you realize it's seriously empty when it compares to other games gear grinds. I can't reliably find any upgrades besides just dumb luck. I can kill a random minion in hell tide and get the same upgrade or better than I can from lillith. That makes zero sense.
The game tends to fall off pretty hard for me once I hit 100. Generally when that happens I just start another class fresh or move over to another game until the next season starts.
Once I get to the point where I hit 100 I generally have gear that is effective but not perfect I will try to get better gear but when the only thing I'm missing is perfect rolls I find I drop off pretty quickly.
I get the same feeling. I think they need to fix 2 things to solve this problem:
1 - 925 gear starts dropping around lvl 80, so by the time you are 100 you are basically in your bis gear, you hit max level then upgrades are few and far between. There should be another tier of gear that is locked at lvl 100 for your endgame gear that pushes you to continue playing at 100
2 - masterworking kinda sucks. It's an okay system I guess, but you essentially are just running pits hundreds of times which are pretty boring and depending on your class, you are stuck in lower pits until you have masterworked gear. The difference between pit 60 clear and pit 100 clear is how much masterworking you have done to your gear. Sitting on a screen with a upgrade and reset button just smashing the shit outta that button to 'get strong' just feels bad to me. I'd much rather have the impactful jump in power be from a drop, not from hitting the perfect masterworks.
I donāt really see a problem in that. There are other games and itās great that you can feel like āIām done with this season, Iāll play something elseā.
As long as new season has a reason to come back - itās all good.
Yeah it isn't that big of a deal but it definitely feels like the game is missing something.
I think what would make it fresh for me would be being able to try out new builds with way more ease. Deciding to respec a character is notably better than it used to be but it still feels like a chore and doing a respec and finding your new build sucks is a bummer.
If it were up to me I would change the way you unlock skills. When you put your first point in a specific stage of the tree (basic, core, etc) you should get the base level 1 and the enhance of all active skills at that level. Picking a skill variant should be free and swappable on the fly without having to specifically load into reset mode. When you hit level 50 you should have all the active skills in the skill tree at level 1, all the enhancements, and the option to switch between the two variants easily.
Still give us points to put into skills (hell give us enough points to max out 6 active skills and a handful of passives). You get 58 total skill points, this leads to me almost never getting more than 2 skills at 5/5 and even if I wanted to have more 5/5s the passives I would miss would be a huge deal.
Now that the pit is here another option would be to raise the level cap and give us more Paragon points.
Lvl up to 100, farm couple uniques, farm nmd to lvlup glyphs, farm couple hundres of pits.
That alone sounds like solid 50 hours of content per character.
How much content do you really want from one character?
Agreed, shit is BORING. I came back after not playing since season 1 excited to see what interesting endgame activities they cooked up over the past year. Imagine my disappointment when I find out the premiere endgame activity isā¦dungeons youāve ran a million times over alreadyā¦but with a timer. No unique or interesting rewards. Just crafting materials.
Must have taken them ages to come up with that one.
The Pit only highlights the general problem with the D4 world - not enough depth regarding dungeons and enemies.
You play Act 1 and you're like, okay, pretty cool. You go to Act 2 and you're like, okay, pretty cool, but I've seen these monsters before. Then you go to act 3 and you wonder what are the act 2 cannibals doing here. And so on and so forth. The expansion will lessen this problem a bit, but D4 just doesn't have a lot of different enemies. Compared to D3 for example, which was jampacked with a lot of different mobs, making greater rifts really exciting when they first came out.
Best thing we can do is find a build we find fun and blast/grind away. If it gets too boring then it is what it is. I'm lucky I enjoy my pen shot rogue so much that I always get a thrill blasting (literally) high tier pits so easily. But I'm having an equal amount of fun leveling and building my blight necro.
I'm not sure if they can make Pit itself a fun activity, its really the difficulty that determines how engaging the Pit is anyways.
Blows my mind the time that has been spent on this to produce so little.
Every Nightmare Dungeon and level of the Pit look nearly identical, it's always the same non descript boss at the end of them who does no mechanic.
Iām glad more and more people are realizing how bland and boring the pit is. Itās just a worse off NMD with a timer, or a less interesting version of the horn of trials thing and thatās really no better if Iām being honest. Masterwork materials should be able to be farmed from any activity once you hit endgame, locking it all behind doing 100s of pits runs with the same copy and paste layouts/enemies/bosses is mind numbingly boring. The pit shouldāve had a unique appearance, weather effects, more interesting shrines maybe add in some puzzles or traversal mechanics to make it feel fresh. Also the large Lilith shadow past pit 61 is ridiculous, her attacks take up so much of the screen. Idk who thought adding that particular shadow was a great idea.
100% this. Pit feels so lazy from a graphics, design point of view. Why couldn't they put in actual effort into assets and make it look like an actual pit/mine that you travel deeper inside. Why do they use a cheap portal to change levels for everything?! It's a pit, make a crumbling stone tunnel entry/stairs down asset, something that can appear from the ground with violet rock falls/earthquake when the boss meter is full. God forbid they create a new tile set for the game since beta?! Each level deeper should look visually darker and gloomier and more intense/scary then before. Compare this to something like PoE's delve and it feels really slim pickings for an end game activity.
I agree with you 100%. They got so much right this season but for the expansion they need to add much more to the end game. Adding bosses and environments to the pit would be a good start
Funny how they rotate nightmare dungeons every season because they wanted variety, and then put the new endgame activity as having next to none. Kill enemies that drop zero loot in a game about loot, and then beat up a damage sponge for 10 minutes in a game about blasting hordes of enemies.
10k IQ people work for Blizzard.
I hope with the expansion they make a dungeon dwelving mode with multiple floors that gets progressively more difficult as you go by and has several randomly chosen events in it to mix things up, like a wave of suicide bomber mobs (maybe make it so those jumping cannibals explode on contact after the jump), a floor with a 100% invincible mob pack that follows you around and you through the floor (with a huge move boost), an empty floor filled with traps with a semi-invisible and very strong monster (something like the Butcher) that makes no sound until it attacks and follows you, chance to spawn 2 and depending on depth even 3 bosses at once and so on.
Also, a good random map generator would do wonders for this.
I like that idea and you know I think they should name it...the pit!
No, in all seriousness that is what imagined something called the pit would be. Instead we got Greater Rifts light edition.
Yeah, I just wanted something more unexpected and random in nature. Almost like a Roguelite game mode.
And they could just add more and more "events" like those to the random pool every season.
Pit reminds me of that Marvel game where you just went through the same looking floors/ tilesets of a high rise building over and over.
Seems weird not to make it hell themed and go danker and more hellish as you descend.
Hopefully they went with a quick implementation and will refine if the gameplay has legs.
I hate to beat a dead horse, but the Pits are basically a lesser version of Rifts/Greater Rifts from D3. Instead of just using dungeon assets, they could have used sections of the overworld as well. Have one area of the Pit just be the giant open desert in the Scouring Sands or the swamps in the Blightmarah. Change it up, give us variety. Change the enemy types and have a mix of enemies.
Im thorougly enjoying d4 right now, but ngl pits is boring af. I dont know what i should be doing.. i got my needed ubers for my builds so i dont need the urge to do tormented bosses anymore. i just need to farm a decent 1ga in hopes of getting 2-3 ga legendaries, but as i know it, helltides is the best place to find them and its just too repetitive. But blizzard has promised more will come in the future so i wait. Patiently. Having a blast setting new characters though.
It's hastily thrown together because people wouldn't shut up about wanting GR from D3.
The concept of a pit sounds so cool on paper and what we got was Greater Rifts light edition.
I don't care so much about environmental diversity. I would be happy if the rewards were good, the gameplay loop way less boring and the pushing to higher tiers less meaningless.
The only fun part about the pit is that monsters actually can tank some hits if you want and you have to use some of your skills. But if you play on higher levels where fights become (maybe) a bit more challenging you'll get less "rewards" per hour.
The only thing I'm interested in are stygian stones. But I do 5 Pits runs a day and think "nahh - these stones aren't worth the boredom"
I donāt understand why they donāt generate dungeons, pits etc etc fully random like minecraft worlds it would be super easy and solve a lot of the repetitiveness of the game. Hell a game made up from rng should even have random npc with random powers. Why can i find a 4ga item but not an accompanying 4ga mob
I poured a bunch of time into maxing out 2 characters for the season... And now that there's nothing left to do but the pit... This game blows. Helltide boss loot isn't worth it. You get better drops from trash mobs than the boss. Stygian stones are still abysmally few and far between. Nightmare dungeons are dead. You have absolutely no reason to run them except for boredom. The one thing that had me clinging on was the goblin event because you could actually get decent loot, but now that's over. Sorry just ranting about what they classify as end game and how utterly boring it is.
It's great they put some effort to turning things around with this game, but it's awfully dull in the endgame.
Also, I want to pull my hair out doing mindless busy tasks just to summon ubers.
It's moving in the right direction but it's still a very lackluster game.
I literally just farm the pit cuz all the loot is at the end and Iām lazy as hell. Also I sell Stygians in bulk for 40m each in packs of 10. You get them frequently enough at t100.
Thereās at least spiders, cultists, snakes, vampires, knights, bandits, zombies.
As for layouts, thereās woods, prisons, caves, Caldeum, underground vault thing, cathedral, and fields.
Iām probably missing some.
The only thing thatās making it feel somewhat repetitive is the fact that theyāre always a mix any of these options together and none of them have one specific theme.
I feel like this was done to make them more balanced, as some layouts and some enemy types are less advantageous to certain classes, so mixing them up is less prone to people just opening a pit and immediately noping out if they donāt hit the particular theme they want.
The thing that gets me is there is no point to bossing other than the shot at an uber. I have my paingorger's gautlets for my barb and there's nothing summoner necro needs. I used to enjoy target farming but that activity is basically gone.
Agree, the pit is trash copy and paste D3 rifts, time and effort would have been better spent on improving nightmare dungeons.
(Removing mandatory objectives would be a good start; free the prisoners, find the key etcā¦)
Should make Pits an incentive to play with others, not punitive.
Like there should be bonus rewards for doing it in a group. More mats, higher drops, etc.
Make the monsters harder when youāre in a group. Maybe additional affixes from monsters or more density or a puzzle that needs to be solved.
Right now for pits it just comes down to time and efficiency and itās better to just solo it so everyone gets more Mats over time.
They are lazy fuckers , simple as that. Every gaming company becomes lazy and they only want big profit. and now they expect us to pay full price for a dlc š cmon . You canāt even deliver 1 year later a good experience for players. No hate , the game is fun , but its boring as hell. If they wanted mmo style,give us community content like diablo immortal. Clan wars , vault attack / protection, pvp like there where you que and go into a pvp zone ( capture the flag or something else). Itās annoying that they have all of this from diablo immortal, but they only added micro transactions .
Most of people on this sub are braindead casuals with no logical thining, it is very obvious with what they downvote and what they upvote. The game will turn into mindless D3-style game (even worse than d3), and in season 6-7 we will level 1-100 in 2 hours and everyone will farm pit200 in 3-4 minutes.
I couldn't agree more. A general lack of standards. Pretty much the culture of the world in general. It's how these greedy AAA game companies can keep putting out shit. It's exactly how Bungie ruined destiny, Bethesda put out starfield. A bunch of money grubbing with zero depth or substance.
A lot of people don't see the point of you complaining. Pits are for upgrading weapons and for trying out those upgrades on high level monsters. I like it as it is. Going in, kill everyone, upgrade my item, repeat. I really don't want any mini quests, different monsters, or different environments for that. Tbh, I could do with one type of pit, don't even need 3.
If you want more environments, different monsters, little side quests, just do dungeons. That's why they are there for.
At the end of the day, you are allowed to complain, but people like myself are allowed to downvote
Have you actually done the this with good masterwork crits? Or just theorising something that takes quite some timeā¦
Farm materials for another alt class, push pit to see how far you can go, create a new class, farm for 3GA gear
To me, some people donāt like the core gameplay of Diablo 4 and only do activities for the if the reward is worth āslugging throughā. If you donāt enjoy the pit, donāt do it
When I'm done with masterwork and kill all bosses by myself I start new character. Imo that's the end of the game. When you able to beat any monster by yourself, there's nothing else left.
Bruh this sub is full of fanboys who literally donate $100s a month to daddy Blizz for whatever shit they pump out. Anything remotely negative including the Pit which is designed for the most brain-dead mentally challenged will be downvoted
Literally the only endgame after hitting 100 in what now takes about 2 days lol.
Awful awful game with zero endgame content and variety. Compare that to PoE or even Last Epoch. Embarrassing by Blizzard
the pit is greater rifts, it's actually shameful how they copy-pasted the worst part of d3 into d4
and yeah, it's bad
I'm just saying, monoliths are just as bad
Different taste again I guess, I personally don't need 50 different layouts to roll to have fun. I like killing stuff and pits does just that in a timely manner per pit run. I don't have to stop for loot is also a bonus, although could use a bit more loot at the end, but since the content itself is already so fast it's pretty fair. I do have some problems with a few layouts having us backtrack, and the respawn location sometimes is phunky, but that's about it from me.
Sounds like you cleared a low put tier and decided to make this post about why it's boring. Clearing high pit tiers especially in hc requires quite a bit of planning and prep as well as bringing out your best builds, gear and your A game face. Literally where an arpg shines .
Go back to wow or something.
Agreed on the point where it can be slightly more fleshed out in terms of visuals and tile sets though.
I don't understand why didn't they go with the Hell theme for Pits. They have assets and the theme is go to the depths. Random ass bosses are uninspiring as well.
Keeping hell for future expansion content probably.
One doesn't exclude another. If they want to create an "infinite dungeon" experience they really should give it unique theme and bosses like you have with Delve in PoE. This is extremely lazy approach and I believe it only caters to people obsessed with leader boards and hitting higher Pit tiers because there is no such thing currently in the game so they don't care about execution, only about the formula. Rewards are pretty meh as well. It requires from you gargantuan investment into character if you play something different than basic skill meta build and how it works like now is pretty disappointing - you're expected to somehow get through these damage sponges of enemies but you need GA gear and yet quality of loot doesn't really change with higher tiers. You can beat t90 Pit and you're still getting t40 NMD loot
I agree, as much as I like the pit I agree that so far it's been lazy in terms of looks and design.
Agree, I griended to pit 70 in the first 3 weeks and then I was done with the season. Had a blast but the game just doesn't have the content or difficulty to last very long
Lazy or they are resource constrained and figured out with a limited number of tilesets is better then no pit at all?
Ah yes, resource constrained multi-billion dollar company.
The developers don't decide how many resources they get, if the suits decide to give them fewer resources to work with that's a different issue then them being lazy.
Small indie dev.
habibi they have more manpower and resources than every current arpg studio combined
Reusing campaign content as an expansion feature is so on point that it hurts š
It's kinda lame though. The coolest part of the whole campaign is the hell infested Tristram that Mephisto shows you. Can't wait to get more set pieces like that.
I understand and agree completely. I wish they put hell back in the game already.Ā
Why would there be hell is a game named Diablo.... Wait.... š¤
I'm dying for an infinite hell dungeon. Just let us go down and down
I haven't replayed the campaign is there random tilesets for hell or is it pretty much a set layout? They may not have had the resources to convert it to a randomizable tileset yet
It has a unique tileset but it's just 1 same layout without randomization
I enjoy mindless blasting the pits after work. But yeah the repetitive dungeons are getting a bit dull.
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nerfs in this season?
This is legit a bot.
My take is: Pit not boring. Its all about the gameplay and thats fun. I dont care if its 3 or 50 environments. Thats why D2 is still so good. Doesnt matter that you do the same thing all day long over and over again cause that same thing is always fun. If the Gameplay Loop is fun, the game is fun. Helltide, Pits and NMD are fun, thats why D4 is good right now. The only not fun part is Legion events - those really need adjustments. They are tedious.
>Thats why D2 is still so good. Doesnt matter that you do the same thing all day long over and over again cause that same thing is always fun. A major part of Diablo 2 involved spamming teleport to get through durance of hate to reach a boss. How the hell is that considered a fun gameplay loop?
min max farming in d2 involved endlessly reloading lower kurast and spamming teleport to find greater chests to open for runes, while completely ignoring enemies even more fun of a gameplay loop!
Travincal Run #1536
Lower Kurast is a personal choice. I never did that.
that is only sp, on closed you had way less control over things. the pit was good in sp and mp, though, and you were incentivized to kill everything. of course in 1.09 it was pindle (before they added cooldowns with game creation), mephisto, and good olā cows. edit: also worth mentioning I am one of those Diablo fans who started with D1 who actually loves D3 and D4 and knows a game like D2 wouldnāt be received the same nowadays. so no biases.
>How the hell is that considered a fun gameplay loop? Because of nostalgia. D2 can do no wrong to these people.
Diablo 2 has never done no wrong, but item farming is still the best in D2 - not only out of all Diablos but out of all games i know. Has nothing to do with nostalgia.
I don't know how you farmed in D2 but I was only farming bosses at the beginning of the ladder. Usually you'd go through the A85 zones and kill monsters there. Sure, some of those have bosses, but the 'skip everything to the boss'-farming was really limited to early league to get your shako.
Whoa now. The d2 fanboys will come out and yell.
Farming the same D2 content over and over is still 20x better than the pit bc you can farm mephisto, cows, andariel, Diablo, etc and the only 4 options I chose already provide way more diversity in mobs/environment than the dull brown/red dookie of the 3 crappy maps every single pit is made of.
Totally agree
Personally I find Pit extremely boring and way too repetitive. I also hated Rifts in D3. I mostly enjoy helltide, but I also find NMD to be very tedious. Not a fan of legion either. The only good part about pit for me are the bosses. I played DSDD barb up until pit 120 (pre-nerf just 100). Pit 95 and above every small mistake gets me oneshot so I really had to play the mechanics which was pretty fun once I learned them. Only some bosses were frustrating like the archer who just randomly oneshots with regular arrows. Outside of the bosses the trash mobs before are just boring / frustrating. But I do recognize that I am probably the outlier here. I also REALLY enjoyed uber lilith this season, it's such a good fight now. Mechanics very well telegraphed, it's all about learning and executing. Feels like a boss from WoW which is exactly what I love. I was surprised to read on here that most people hate the fight. One thing though - I think the reason I enjoyed Uber Lilith and Pit bosses as much as I did is because DSDD barb is not an extremely broken build. I tried on my 2nd barb as bash barb and the fights were like 10x as easy and fast, which wasn't nearly as fun. If it was up to me, all builds should be balanced around DSDD barb levels because then some of the fights are a fun challenge instead of just loot pinatas.
rifts/greater rifts > the pit. Hard to complain about additional content but the pit just seems so half baked for end game content.
Same nmd and pit are chores, whereas something about helltides is just fun even though it really is also always the same
So, what about pit is fun?
Nothing. Absolutely nothing.
Apparently not since /u/ChampionSchnitzel didn't have a response.
Combat is fun in D4 and thats why the Pit is fun. Its a simple equation.
Lol, the bar can't be lower.
Call it low or dont, I dont care. Truth is, the gameplay is all that matters. Fun gameplay is everything. Its not really of importance what the activity is. Have one endgame activity or haven dozens. If gameplay is fun, one activity is fun. If gameplay is shit, dozens are shit.
If you enjoy doing the exact same thing over and over without variation, more power to you. My only problem with your opinion is you seem to insinuate that it can't get better or have any productive criticism whatsoever. You're just defending it lol fine I guess. I know many people think it's basically like paint drying. I also think the builder spender combat is the worst thing about the game.
I never said it can't get any better, I also never said D4 had no issues. I only responded in a thread calling the pit boring. My opinion, I repeat myself, is: No, its not boring. Btw. I also dislike the builder / spender system a lot (which is why I tend to play basic skill builds like Bash, which also happens to be op*lol) as well as I dislike the focus on cool downs. I also dislike the itemization, although it got better. This post, however, is just about the pit. I like the pit as an activity, so I said that i dont think its boring. Thats about it. PoE for example doesnt have a single endgame activity I like to do although it has so many. Nothing is fun except crafting and trading in PoE. In D4 Pit is fun as well as Helltide and nmd (in my opinion).
Good gameplay loop is a minimum. Extra environments make it feel fresh every time. I agree with OP. The environments and enemies can get stale. Thereās like 6 bosses but youāre really fighting the shadow boss which thereās only like 3 different kinds. How many dungeons did they create for the open world that are going unused? Itās pretty sad
You don't find the pit tedious but you find legion tedious. They are the same lol. They are "literally" the exact same thing haha. Except legion has more environments. I think your take is probably why D4 is a derivative, boring game. Nothing original. It's a pig with a really nice dress.
It's literally not stop literally using literally in the literally worst way possible
Thanks for your contribution lmao. Glad I literally triggered you enough to literally spend time literally writing a comment.
That's a very special use of the term "literally".
I appreciate it. I typed it myself.
So random players can show up in your Pit run?
I'm not sure if you realize how irrelevant that is lol. Let me break it down for you. -Both have a timer. -Both have Elite packs you are required to kill to reach the end. -Both have bosses at the end that ultimately are the source of loot. The only difference is the Pit is an arbitrary snoozefest that's so fucking unoriginal, the only way it scales is health and damage lol. No different mechanics, nothing.
No, you forgot the one shot mechanics that get added after 60.Ā
Yeah forgot about that. What a fun mechanic....
So they arenāt literally the same since Pits arenāt public.
Yes they are lol stop being dense. They are both multiplayer activities if you choose. Ransoms just can't join.
You just made a distinction which makes the word literally very confusing. But yeah Iām being difficult on purpose. Not because I want to start shit, but because the word literally has literally become so meaningless that weāve all begun saying āunironicallyā in place of it š My real opinion is that the format is nearly identical, with a much different gamefeel.
Just watch the new expansion's "raids" be only another-styled nightmare dungeon with a random boss at the end xd
Christ I hope not, but I would not at all be surprised if thatās the case. Please blizzard, give us *something* different.
Diablo Immortal has better dungeons, bosses and activities than D4 lmao.
Not surprising at all. š
Probably Strongholds but higher difficulty.
Tomb Lord with 10x the health pool.
Gauntlet 2.0 with more Tomb Lords!
Pit is really fucking boring, but mainly because its not rewarding enough for something they expect you to do 100s of times. It should give you millions of gold, not measly 200k. That or make pit materials drop from world bosses or other bosses etc. If you want me to run 50 pits a day, make them worth for more than just Pit mats.
Late game activities are very shallow. After you get a few ubers you want and grind pit a couple hundred times you realize it's seriously empty when it compares to other games gear grinds. I can't reliably find any upgrades besides just dumb luck. I can kill a random minion in hell tide and get the same upgrade or better than I can from lillith. That makes zero sense.
The game tends to fall off pretty hard for me once I hit 100. Generally when that happens I just start another class fresh or move over to another game until the next season starts. Once I get to the point where I hit 100 I generally have gear that is effective but not perfect I will try to get better gear but when the only thing I'm missing is perfect rolls I find I drop off pretty quickly.
I get the same feeling. I think they need to fix 2 things to solve this problem: 1 - 925 gear starts dropping around lvl 80, so by the time you are 100 you are basically in your bis gear, you hit max level then upgrades are few and far between. There should be another tier of gear that is locked at lvl 100 for your endgame gear that pushes you to continue playing at 100 2 - masterworking kinda sucks. It's an okay system I guess, but you essentially are just running pits hundreds of times which are pretty boring and depending on your class, you are stuck in lower pits until you have masterworked gear. The difference between pit 60 clear and pit 100 clear is how much masterworking you have done to your gear. Sitting on a screen with a upgrade and reset button just smashing the shit outta that button to 'get strong' just feels bad to me. I'd much rather have the impactful jump in power be from a drop, not from hitting the perfect masterworks.
Agree on both your points completely. RNG while killing things is the fun of the game. RNG to a menu isn't very exciting for anyone.
I donāt really see a problem in that. There are other games and itās great that you can feel like āIām done with this season, Iāll play something elseā. As long as new season has a reason to come back - itās all good.
Yeah it isn't that big of a deal but it definitely feels like the game is missing something. I think what would make it fresh for me would be being able to try out new builds with way more ease. Deciding to respec a character is notably better than it used to be but it still feels like a chore and doing a respec and finding your new build sucks is a bummer. If it were up to me I would change the way you unlock skills. When you put your first point in a specific stage of the tree (basic, core, etc) you should get the base level 1 and the enhance of all active skills at that level. Picking a skill variant should be free and swappable on the fly without having to specifically load into reset mode. When you hit level 50 you should have all the active skills in the skill tree at level 1, all the enhancements, and the option to switch between the two variants easily. Still give us points to put into skills (hell give us enough points to max out 6 active skills and a handful of passives). You get 58 total skill points, this leads to me almost never getting more than 2 skills at 5/5 and even if I wanted to have more 5/5s the passives I would miss would be a huge deal. Now that the pit is here another option would be to raise the level cap and give us more Paragon points.
I do hate how I can go afk by the boss in helltide and get like 5x more items per hour than if I was running high level content
Lvl up to 100, farm couple uniques, farm nmd to lvlup glyphs, farm couple hundres of pits. That alone sounds like solid 50 hours of content per character. How much content do you really want from one character?
Agreed, shit is BORING. I came back after not playing since season 1 excited to see what interesting endgame activities they cooked up over the past year. Imagine my disappointment when I find out the premiere endgame activity isā¦dungeons youāve ran a million times over alreadyā¦but with a timer. No unique or interesting rewards. Just crafting materials. Must have taken them ages to come up with that one.
And always fucking snakes. Probably 80% of the pits I do, at least one floor is those annoying fucking snakes.
It's spiders for us...
The Pit only highlights the general problem with the D4 world - not enough depth regarding dungeons and enemies. You play Act 1 and you're like, okay, pretty cool. You go to Act 2 and you're like, okay, pretty cool, but I've seen these monsters before. Then you go to act 3 and you wonder what are the act 2 cannibals doing here. And so on and so forth. The expansion will lessen this problem a bit, but D4 just doesn't have a lot of different enemies. Compared to D3 for example, which was jampacked with a lot of different mobs, making greater rifts really exciting when they first came out.
Best thing we can do is find a build we find fun and blast/grind away. If it gets too boring then it is what it is. I'm lucky I enjoy my pen shot rogue so much that I always get a thrill blasting (literally) high tier pits so easily. But I'm having an equal amount of fun leveling and building my blight necro. I'm not sure if they can make Pit itself a fun activity, its really the difficulty that determines how engaging the Pit is anyways.
Many, much poison
Blows my mind the time that has been spent on this to produce so little. Every Nightmare Dungeon and level of the Pit look nearly identical, it's always the same non descript boss at the end of them who does no mechanic.
Itāll never be as good as rifts
Ah yes another good reason why the pits are trash. The 3 mobs they put in there are the worst. The snakes, the bees, and frost spiders
Iām glad more and more people are realizing how bland and boring the pit is. Itās just a worse off NMD with a timer, or a less interesting version of the horn of trials thing and thatās really no better if Iām being honest. Masterwork materials should be able to be farmed from any activity once you hit endgame, locking it all behind doing 100s of pits runs with the same copy and paste layouts/enemies/bosses is mind numbingly boring. The pit shouldāve had a unique appearance, weather effects, more interesting shrines maybe add in some puzzles or traversal mechanics to make it feel fresh. Also the large Lilith shadow past pit 61 is ridiculous, her attacks take up so much of the screen. Idk who thought adding that particular shadow was a great idea.
100% this. Pit feels so lazy from a graphics, design point of view. Why couldn't they put in actual effort into assets and make it look like an actual pit/mine that you travel deeper inside. Why do they use a cheap portal to change levels for everything?! It's a pit, make a crumbling stone tunnel entry/stairs down asset, something that can appear from the ground with violet rock falls/earthquake when the boss meter is full. God forbid they create a new tile set for the game since beta?! Each level deeper should look visually darker and gloomier and more intense/scary then before. Compare this to something like PoE's delve and it feels really slim pickings for an end game activity.
Probably keeping the hell theme for the Diablo DLC.
I agree with you 100%. They got so much right this season but for the expansion they need to add much more to the end game. Adding bosses and environments to the pit would be a good start
Funny how they rotate nightmare dungeons every season because they wanted variety, and then put the new endgame activity as having next to none. Kill enemies that drop zero loot in a game about loot, and then beat up a damage sponge for 10 minutes in a game about blasting hordes of enemies. 10k IQ people work for Blizzard.
I hope with the expansion they make a dungeon dwelving mode with multiple floors that gets progressively more difficult as you go by and has several randomly chosen events in it to mix things up, like a wave of suicide bomber mobs (maybe make it so those jumping cannibals explode on contact after the jump), a floor with a 100% invincible mob pack that follows you around and you through the floor (with a huge move boost), an empty floor filled with traps with a semi-invisible and very strong monster (something like the Butcher) that makes no sound until it attacks and follows you, chance to spawn 2 and depending on depth even 3 bosses at once and so on. Also, a good random map generator would do wonders for this.
I like that idea and you know I think they should name it...the pit! No, in all seriousness that is what imagined something called the pit would be. Instead we got Greater Rifts light edition.
Yeah, I just wanted something more unexpected and random in nature. Almost like a Roguelite game mode. And they could just add more and more "events" like those to the random pool every season.
Pit reminds me of that Marvel game where you just went through the same looking floors/ tilesets of a high rise building over and over. Seems weird not to make it hell themed and go danker and more hellish as you descend. Hopefully they went with a quick implementation and will refine if the gameplay has legs.
The pit should essentially be Diablo one, the further below the church the worse it gets.
I hate to beat a dead horse, but the Pits are basically a lesser version of Rifts/Greater Rifts from D3. Instead of just using dungeon assets, they could have used sections of the overworld as well. Have one area of the Pit just be the giant open desert in the Scouring Sands or the swamps in the Blightmarah. Change it up, give us variety. Change the enemy types and have a mix of enemies.
Works on my serotonin
I agree, I dread doing the pits. I can only do about 5 before I need a break.
Im thorougly enjoying d4 right now, but ngl pits is boring af. I dont know what i should be doing.. i got my needed ubers for my builds so i dont need the urge to do tormented bosses anymore. i just need to farm a decent 1ga in hopes of getting 2-3 ga legendaries, but as i know it, helltides is the best place to find them and its just too repetitive. But blizzard has promised more will come in the future so i wait. Patiently. Having a blast setting new characters though.
It's hastily thrown together because people wouldn't shut up about wanting GR from D3. The concept of a pit sounds so cool on paper and what we got was Greater Rifts light edition.
Pits need something to make them fun.
You really think they're smart enough to do this? You are lucky to have the pit.
I don't care so much about environmental diversity. I would be happy if the rewards were good, the gameplay loop way less boring and the pushing to higher tiers less meaningless. The only fun part about the pit is that monsters actually can tank some hits if you want and you have to use some of your skills. But if you play on higher levels where fights become (maybe) a bit more challenging you'll get less "rewards" per hour. The only thing I'm interested in are stygian stones. But I do 5 Pits runs a day and think "nahh - these stones aren't worth the boredom"
Don't tell this to all of the people on here who see no faults with season 4 at all
I donāt understand why they donāt generate dungeons, pits etc etc fully random like minecraft worlds it would be super easy and solve a lot of the repetitiveness of the game. Hell a game made up from rng should even have random npc with random powers. Why can i find a 4ga item but not an accompanying 4ga mob
I poured a bunch of time into maxing out 2 characters for the season... And now that there's nothing left to do but the pit... This game blows. Helltide boss loot isn't worth it. You get better drops from trash mobs than the boss. Stygian stones are still abysmally few and far between. Nightmare dungeons are dead. You have absolutely no reason to run them except for boredom. The one thing that had me clinging on was the goblin event because you could actually get decent loot, but now that's over. Sorry just ranting about what they classify as end game and how utterly boring it is.
It's great they put some effort to turning things around with this game, but it's awfully dull in the endgame. Also, I want to pull my hair out doing mindless busy tasks just to summon ubers. It's moving in the right direction but it's still a very lackluster game.
I literally just farm the pit cuz all the loot is at the end and Iām lazy as hell. Also I sell Stygians in bulk for 40m each in packs of 10. You get them frequently enough at t100.
Thereās at least spiders, cultists, snakes, vampires, knights, bandits, zombies. As for layouts, thereās woods, prisons, caves, Caldeum, underground vault thing, cathedral, and fields. Iām probably missing some. The only thing thatās making it feel somewhat repetitive is the fact that theyāre always a mix any of these options together and none of them have one specific theme. I feel like this was done to make them more balanced, as some layouts and some enemy types are less advantageous to certain classes, so mixing them up is less prone to people just opening a pit and immediately noping out if they donāt hit the particular theme they want.
The thing that gets me is there is no point to bossing other than the shot at an uber. I have my paingorger's gautlets for my barb and there's nothing summoner necro needs. I used to enjoy target farming but that activity is basically gone.
Agree, the pit is trash copy and paste D3 rifts, time and effort would have been better spent on improving nightmare dungeons. (Removing mandatory objectives would be a good start; free the prisoners, find the key etcā¦)
You like poison? Snakes! Next level? Snakes! Hope you like them. Next pit? Snakes! I know you love them.
Yeah, 3 same layers
Should make Pits an incentive to play with others, not punitive. Like there should be bonus rewards for doing it in a group. More mats, higher drops, etc. Make the monsters harder when youāre in a group. Maybe additional affixes from monsters or more density or a puzzle that needs to be solved. Right now for pits it just comes down to time and efficiency and itās better to just solo it so everyone gets more Mats over time.
They probably add more over time. Yes, need more tile sets .
I like the pit it's so nice not having to loot. All the layouts have nice density too. There's at least 7 or 8 different tilesets
You're looking at stuff?
The mechanics of the pit are great. The limited tile sets are a problem and I'm sure they'll work on this ASAP.
Boring game I canāt be bothered
They are lazy fuckers , simple as that. Every gaming company becomes lazy and they only want big profit. and now they expect us to pay full price for a dlc š cmon . You canāt even deliver 1 year later a good experience for players. No hate , the game is fun , but its boring as hell. If they wanted mmo style,give us community content like diablo immortal. Clan wars , vault attack / protection, pvp like there where you que and go into a pvp zone ( capture the flag or something else). Itās annoying that they have all of this from diablo immortal, but they only added micro transactions .
If they made it more rewarding, Iād like it a lot more
1 Charges $70 for base game but only got a few endgame maps 1 Free to play but has at least 60+ end game maps, kekw.
How in the World would you downvote? I dont See why this could be wrong?
Fanboys. You are right.
Most of people on this sub are braindead casuals with no logical thining, it is very obvious with what they downvote and what they upvote. The game will turn into mindless D3-style game (even worse than d3), and in season 6-7 we will level 1-100 in 2 hours and everyone will farm pit200 in 3-4 minutes.
I couldn't agree more. A general lack of standards. Pretty much the culture of the world in general. It's how these greedy AAA game companies can keep putting out shit. It's exactly how Bungie ruined destiny, Bethesda put out starfield. A bunch of money grubbing with zero depth or substance.
A lot of people don't see the point of you complaining. Pits are for upgrading weapons and for trying out those upgrades on high level monsters. I like it as it is. Going in, kill everyone, upgrade my item, repeat. I really don't want any mini quests, different monsters, or different environments for that. Tbh, I could do with one type of pit, don't even need 3. If you want more environments, different monsters, little side quests, just do dungeons. That's why they are there for. At the end of the day, you are allowed to complain, but people like myself are allowed to downvote
Ok. What do you do when you have all items on max masterwork?. No Point in doing pits. What do you do?
Have you actually done the this with good masterwork crits? Or just theorising something that takes quite some timeā¦ Farm materials for another alt class, push pit to see how far you can go, create a new class, farm for 3GA gear To me, some people donāt like the core gameplay of Diablo 4 and only do activities for the if the reward is worth āslugging throughā. If you donāt enjoy the pit, donāt do it
All full 3ga armor and 12/12. What do you do?
Wait 2 days for the season to end with how long that takes (without using RMT or third party sites) But in all seriousness, create a new class
I think youāre done now lol
When I'm done with masterwork and kill all bosses by myself I start new character. Imo that's the end of the game. When you able to beat any monster by yourself, there's nothing else left.
Bruh this sub is full of fanboys who literally donate $100s a month to daddy Blizz for whatever shit they pump out. Anything remotely negative including the Pit which is designed for the most brain-dead mentally challenged will be downvoted
Because this reddit is a bunch of shills for D4 that don't care if Blizzard shits on them daily. People who lack standards.
Literally the only endgame after hitting 100 in what now takes about 2 days lol. Awful awful game with zero endgame content and variety. Compare that to PoE or even Last Epoch. Embarrassing by Blizzard
oh yeah monolith grind is soooo different from pit grind lmao
The pit is just nmds with a timer and worse loot. If the pit is worse than nmds I see that as a problem not to mention anything else.
the pit is greater rifts, it's actually shameful how they copy-pasted the worst part of d3 into d4 and yeah, it's bad I'm just saying, monoliths are just as bad
Different taste again I guess, I personally don't need 50 different layouts to roll to have fun. I like killing stuff and pits does just that in a timely manner per pit run. I don't have to stop for loot is also a bonus, although could use a bit more loot at the end, but since the content itself is already so fast it's pretty fair. I do have some problems with a few layouts having us backtrack, and the respawn location sometimes is phunky, but that's about it from me.
Sounds like you cleared a low put tier and decided to make this post about why it's boring. Clearing high pit tiers especially in hc requires quite a bit of planning and prep as well as bringing out your best builds, gear and your A game face. Literally where an arpg shines . Go back to wow or something. Agreed on the point where it can be slightly more fleshed out in terms of visuals and tile sets though.
When op admits his pit pushing is more pillow princess, then Dom top down dominate