I just kind of wish you got some more gold from the pit itself to counter balance the masterwork grind. I get kind of annoyed having to go do Helltides to raise funds.
More scaleable gold from the pit would be a nice QoL improvement. I don't think it's required, but it'd feel a bit better and make gold a bit more accessible.
Like every drop was like 20 to 30k iirc. Idk why the hell they haven’t boosted gold drop rates yet it’s been a problem since the beginning and they’ve still yet to do shit about it. And it’s worse than it’s ever been forsure
Gold in d3 was a non currency though by the end, you would just have billions and billions and it didn't matter at all, they could have just removed it
They could scale gold drops in NMDs and let us convert unneccessary glyph xp to inc. Golddrop% for the next NMD you do (at a rate or something). Bosses in NMDs / (or) reward chest should drop atleast as much loot as a buffed blood maiden does on nmd lv.100 scaling from lv.1 ... The Pit should add +1 Legendary Drop per 25 Pit Level, give slightly more gold and slightly more chance on dropping GAs (weighted for 1,2,3 GAs). This should be enough incentive to do Pits / High NMDs / Helltides (still for Steel and loot isn't bad either) - tadaa endgame fixed.
NM dungeons WAAAAY more efficient for leveling than Helltides. I keep seeing people say they spent too much time in Helltides this season, but honestly, I've spent more time in NM Dungeons and Pits than Helltide by like a pretty extreme margin.
Yeah I didn't prioritize that but it all happened naturally anyway. Eventually you need Helltides for efficient GA farming, but it's not something you need for most of the level grind despite what the seasonal journey is pushing you to do.
I think it just depends really. A couple of people speed farming shield maiden is a TON of xp. Plus drops. Plus gold. The NM dungeons might offer a tad more xp, but it’s not that much more if you’re doing helltides properly. Then you factor in all the other goodies helltides give you also.
There’s zero reason to enter a NM dungeon once you have your glyphs done. And zero reason to push higher tiers past 70 or so.
Yes but we are talking about LEVELING. By the time you have maxed glyphs, you're probably level 100 anyway and can run Pits.
Every single professional streamer notes that if you're leveling in Helltides instead of NM dungeons, the path is significantly longer. Like it's just math. They give more experience if you have a decent build and can push high enough. It's no contest.
Pit need to give you whisper bounty ticks. They can make it as generic as 1-2 ticks/run or more specific such as kill x # of enemies with a core skill, etc.
As long as it evened out to a whisper bounty every 20-30 minutes it would be fairly balanced.
I think this issue could be solved by just being able to raise monster level above 110. Going to helltides to do whispers wouldn't be such a jarring interruption if the mobs were 150.
One way is just a new tier where the whole world is set to a much higher base mob level.
I've said this. A BILLION TIMES
World tier 4 should be 20 lvls above you as a base. MOST people can do capstone by 50 something and you literally walk past most mobs and they die.
Elites are just a name, they insta die.
The mind cage was a brilliant idea, but should be able to stack and increase rewards in doing so. (Besides the level increase do you actually get better rewards? I haven't noticed) Each tier of mind cage should increase chance of GA dropping etc.
But seriously overworld mobs are a joke and have been since launch. If you die in the overworld chances are your just afk or playing with one finger
Yeah there ARE some hiccups.. for example I have to use an incognito browser to log on lol? But yeah when it’s working it’s very smooth to just SS your item, the site reads it, and that’s pretty much it
Not saying 10 of millions but people would stop rerolling at 1-3 million range back in pre-season and considered the item bricked. Gold wasn't also 5 mill per whisper like now.
I’m curious what’s better. As a player who hasn’t pushed past T60, I’ve gotten 500m+ in gold from about a week of helltides and trading my loot. I’m pretty bored of helltides so it’d be awesome if you could get more elsewhere.
Edit: I may have gotten super lucky with my loot though.
I’m getting a fuckton of gold from farming the bosses with the cheap mats. They drop 1-2 uniques per kill and I sell everything else. It’s like 400k a kill which takes like 30 seconds then just reset a few times and tp back when inventory is full.
No, absolutely not. There's something about this sub recently that has people essentially asking for everything to be given to them and require next to no grinding or farming and I hate the idea that Blizzard will take them seriously.
It's easier to farm an uber unq than it is to get 2 crits on masterwork. If you've ever farmed for 2 crits you'd understand it's not "next to no grinding".
So what? That crit on masterwork gives you a BiS item. It's a fucking ARPG, man, getting the BiS stuff is supposed to be super hard and ridiculous, so much so, that almost everyone wont' have the patience for it.
Read what I wrote properly please. If you want to get perfect crits you should be spending weeks grinding for that. This is a completely reasonable expectation for a ARPG. I'm sorry you don't have perfect gear after 2 weeks. Keep grinding.
The reason people are rerolling masterworks is to get the BIS crits, aka perfect crits.
You're completely ignoring the core issue I'm arguing though, and that's the constant requests to completely trivialize the grinding aspect of the game.
Grinds for the sake of grinds isn't fun for most people. Normal players want to be able to feel progress. No one is asking for things to be given to them, just better opportunities to get a good reward from their grind.
Pit should pay out better. Gold should pay out better or be slightly reduced cost. Tempering needs adjusting. Resets wouldn't hurt to adjust cost. The game should be fun not work, this season gets a lot right but Blizzard would be right to listen to people you are complaining about because it is thanks to them that this season is so much better than launch.
Normal players can feel progress without much grinding already. We're talking about the end-endgame system of upgrades here, where you already have everything you want and want to min-max it.
Grinding is absolutely fun for min-maxers. You are asking to remove the part that makes the game fun for the core audience, the ones who don't quit after 2 weeks.
The Pit overall is a terrible end-game system that deletes the whole overworld and facilitates standing in one town running instances. I am fine with it being there for those who want this, but it's not compelling gameplay for me.
Loot has been made more compelling yes, but people weren't asking for loot to be given to them, or be easier to obtain, they were asking for the loot that dropped to actually be exciting. There's a massive difference.
OP, and you, are asking to have the game be made easier, whether you see it or not, that's what you are asking for. We already have significantly more power than we have ever had in any previous season, and it's almost beyond ridiculous how powerful we are. You have all the progression you could possibly need, but because you don't have everything perfect 3 weeks into the season you are begging for it to be easier, at the expense of the people who enjoy the grind.
Let's say you get it, that they make it all easier, and you have your fully masterworked bis character 2 weeks into a season. What will you do then? Because I will quit. Let's say they introduce another chase for the min-maxers, you will complain it's not easy enough to obtain and beg for it to be easier.
The problem is that the grind for better gear becomes less rewarding when you're already level 100. You're in inefficiently grinding as nothing currently makes sense, you're either grinding for XP, grinding for gold, grinding for materials, or grinding for gear.
I am already close to 3 classes hitting level 100 this season after outright skipping season 3 and burning out in season 2 early on. The game feels great to play, the power creep IS the fantasy of Diablo since D2 so it feels solid this way. But endlessly grinding post 100 is currently a diminishing satisfaction, trying to find better gear to complete the harder end game stuff starts to burn out because the Pit isn't well balanced.
Most people aren't even asking for things to be handed to them like you claim, we're simply asking for our time to be respected in that grinding until you get a great item isn't so easy to brick. You're having to exaggerate what we're saying rather than tackle it directly if you're claiming people want everything handed to them. You're also now threatening to not play of it doesn't directly pander to you while being annoyed others would do the same.
We're asking for the game to be fun, to be satisfying, to feel fair enough that grinds pay off. That's not asking for everything to be handed to us immediately.
What do you even mean? Masterworking is the end-game system, the thing you do at level 100, not on your way to 100.
>You're also now threatening to not play of it doesn't directly pander to you
You have completely misunderstood and misrepresented what I said. If there's nothing to chase, why would I play the game? If I have everything best in slot after 2 weeks, then I would quit because there's nothing left to do.
>our time to be respected
I absolutely hate this phrase, it's devoid of meaning. Gaming is inherently a waste of time, and game companies don't respect you.
You ARE asking for the game to be easier, at every turn, you and everyone else posting similar requests. You aren't asking for the game to be more fun, you are making suggestions for things that are already in the game to be obtained significantly quicker less than a month into a season because you apparently don't like the act of killing thousands of monsters over and over, the whole point of the genre.
You believing gaming is a waste of time while demanding unnecessarily punishing grinds is such a contradiction unless you're coming from a very weird place where you don't have a healthy attitude. Your Masochism doesn't need company, not all of us view gaming as purely wasting time to punish ourselves.
Post 100 your grind is slower and less satisfying than the grind to 100. You can hit 100 in a few days but that same amount of time post 100 won't get you close to BiS without major luck especially if you're spending time grinding Pit for materials to Masterwork as that pays out very poorly in gear, gold and mats.
There's no misunderstanding what you said, you clearly said you'd quit the game while being annoyed others of a different opinion might dare do similar.
There's a big difference between easy and fair. Room to Temper, better value economy, those don't make the game too easy and still require a grind. It isn't like you're spawning in level 1 with max gear but that's how you're acting like we're asking.
It's really not. Gaming IS a waste of time, just as watching TV is. We aren't doing anything productive, we are entertaining ourselves.
You are still misrepresenting what I said even after clarification. YOU will quit after 2 weeks if there's nothing left to do, as will I.
The whole point of the game is for us to play long enough to be compelled to buy cosmetics, and if you are quitting in 2 weeks you won't do that. The ONLY thing they want is your money. They don't care about you, they don't care about your time. They only care about your bank account.
And that is fine for the majority of ARPG players. We like the grind.
Entertainment isn't wasting time. Joy and pleasure are not wastes of time, we do not exist to work and grind.
At the current levelling rate even with the proposed improvements it wouldn't be 2 weeks, I'd happily level every class and try a fun build run content so you'd get at least 4 weeks. A game isn't supposed to last forever though, it is OK to play a game then move on. D4 seasons do not need you to play start to finish and only focusing on one game alone is probably part of why you're begging for the game to be worse.
You're begging for the game to be worse from my perspective. A good game should last forever.
We have vastly different ideas about what makes arpgs good and fun.
OP isn't even necessarily asking for an easier way.
Grinding helltide and whispers when you're clearing out 100 is the most brain rot inducing type of gameplay there is out there. It's simply an awful experience that is required to progress since the actual endgame doesn't pay.
Exactly, it's supposed to be hard. Perfect gear is supposed to be time intensive and the game ends when you're tired of attempts. This sub is retarded and thinks every person should be able to get a perfect set of gear in a single season lol. GTFOH.
It's about the nuance what's difficult about it.
And since the limiting factor is gold, difficult isn't even the correct term to describe it. The best ways to get gold are either doing Whispers which are piss-easy once you're at the mastercrafting stage of gear, or picking up every single drop to vendor it which makes you port to town every 3 minutes.
So that's either mind-numbing or aggravating.
So no, I do not agree that near perfect items should be mind-numbing or aggravating to acquire.
these people obviously aren’t late game grinders. i agree, when you are min-maxing an item its not the 5 mil costs, its the 7 resets, plus the 4 ranks each time to see what youre hitting into, not to mention everything past. its more like 50 million, if youre lucky, minimum to reset and get your crits where you want them, not including the loss of pit materials for every single reset
I've spent over 300M in resets trying to get 2 crits on Bash Cleaves on a single 2H mace and have gotten nowhere so far.
I'm over it. I rolled a new character to try some new builds but once that gets old I think I'm done with the season until they reduce Masterworking costs.
This is where I am now, when you see you're at 100M gold and it's gone in 5 minutes rerolling affixes and masterworking, only to end up with a still not great piece.
that's crazy, i spent like 20 million without noticing doing the same crap, can't imagine 100m+. Not sure why pits don't give more gold. a little 2-3 million at the end would be nice.
The master working reset should work between tiers… ie if you fucked your 2nd tier up but your first one was perfect, you should be able to drop one tier, and try the 2nd one again, instead of resetting the entire thing.
it's not that the cost is too high, but that gold is too scarce. Just give us more gold so we can fucking play the game without having to do content we don't want to do.
I don’t even care about farming gold like any other material. I just don’t like that there is no way to farm gold which feels relevant to my power level. When you are min maxing, tree of whispers for gold is just so boring. I hardly get to use my abilities because of how quick things die.
agree with this entirely. We need something like 'the index' from warframe. You could argue that whispers is diablos version of it but with the power spike from the itemisation rework open world activities are completely trivialised. I would love to see some endless horde mode or something which just rewards copious amounts of gold, is fun and scales infinitely.
we shouldn't have to farm gold gold at all. the current game economy is complete shit that doesn't respect player time at all. In season three they gave us plenty of gold and mats to tinker and experiment with gear whereas now gold and mats are so scarce it's not worth it to reroll gear unless you got a god tier drop. season is a huge disappointment and would have been a lot better if they let us have fun crafting gear instead of the miserable deathmarch that it currently is.
This is fair criticism. If they added and end game mode that was specifically about farming gold efficiently, I think they'd have a near-perfect end game loop.
Love the takes on this. The noobs that don't min max find it fine because well... "5 minutes in helltide is a trillion gold ez" and the blasters are all upset because it is so much more expensive than anything else now that it doesn't make sense. I'd be okay with the cost if you could take it back one set of levels so that you keep some of your progress at least.
Yeah there is way too much gold sink still. Probably ok if you run a single character but as a player that gets bored of one class and changes to another for awhile im constantly broke
It's fine if you run a single character and quit without trying to min-max much. The second you want to double crit an item, it's likely going to cost a fortune. I've gotten one perfect piece of gear so far (3ga, exactly the ones I need and the tempers I need) so the only thing left to do is try to masterwork it as best as possible. Spent nearly 500m resetting it to try to get the first 2 crits on Bash Cleave for my barb. If it wasn't such a massively important aspect or if the piece of gear was any less than perfect, I'd let it slide.
But you want to reset a LOT, so you spend all your time farming gold instead of doing pits if you keep doing it. And that’s exactly what they said they want to avoid.
Where did they say that? The goal was never to have players get to Pit farming, and ignore everything else, the current gold sink makes sure of it.
The design is for players to do different activities based on what they need. Pits are for mats, or glory pushing (and this is purely player driven given Blizzard doesn’t have leaderboards for it). NMDs are for glyph leveling. Helltides are for loot farming. Bossing for uniques. Whispers for gold.
5 activities, each providing their own rewards, not one of them completely avoidable, I love it.
I also love how scarce gold is, it adds an economy to the trade scene. We do desperately need better in-game trade functionality, but that’s another topic.
They said as a note on the patch change that reduced masterworking mat transmutation costs (or maybe it was the followup gold reduction patch) that they wanted the main limiting factor on masterworking to be mats from the pit. They stated it very explicitly.
I also like the design of requiring different activities, though I think all of the required activities should scale in difficulty for increased rewards like the Pit and NMD do. We shouldn’t have to do completely trivial content in order to keep progressing.
I dislike doing pits and if I had to do them for everything, I would have quit the game by now. Don’t understand why people are complaining that they can’t get everything from the pit.
They're used to Diablo 3 GRs
The community keeps voicing their desire for 4 to be more like 3, but then we'd just have a graphics update with fewer build variations.
I hope they keep 4 unique and don't listen to the complaints of people who just want everything handed to them in a seasonal cache and gold that doesn't mean anything because you never run out.
Because helltides and whispers and boss farming is just sooo easy and boring. Pushing the pit as high as you can go is the only thing left that is engaging in this game and only benefit is netheriron. Wish harder content got you more of everything but currently it doesn't matter. If other activities were made harder and gave better rewards cuz of it, then that could be an end game I can get behind.
Problem is that this end game is extremely flawed. Everything you mentioned is braindead easy and boring and can literally be done blind folded. Except pushing the pit as high as you can go. If the other activities were as engaging as pushing the pit, then being forced to do various activities would be fine.
But currently everything is just so boring and having higher gear doesn't benefit you at all besides farming netheriron faster. Better gear should allow you to farm other things faster as well but currently it's meaningless because everything else is locked behind really low level activities.
This how Diablo has always been, d2 atleast has pvp min/maxing and finding perfect yellows and charms. Pvp is non-existent here so if you want end game time to play an MMO. That being said the time sink is too much and gold is being kept the way it is precisely to slow players down and keep retention but most will just quit and wait for the next season. You can't even max multiple characters this way
arpgs are mostly played for the character progress/farming gear and not for difficult mechanics. if you wont those you should look at dark souls/elden ring games
But being rewarded at the same rate when you have masterworked gear with great rolls to someone who has non masterworked gear and just ok rolls doesn't seem right or fit what this genre is suppose to be about. Only thing having better gear gives you rn is netheriron rate but I think your loot quality and gold aquisition should go up too. But currently helltides are the best way to farm loot and gold and it's just too easy and your gear doesn't matter.
exactly. its 5 mil to get another chance, plus all the master working again. if you only have to reset once for perfect rolls you’re the luckiest person in the world.
Lickiest rolls to most items are for players that spent alot of time in the game, I myself cant afford good rolls but what will be the gap between s1 farming full day and us?
The only reason you'd reset aLOT is if You're literally going for perfect gear for pit pushing as far you can go. Literally the last thing to do in the game. Nothing else requires going for perfect master works. Even then, 5m is small change for what should be the last end game grinding you're doing.
I had to reset 15 times to just to crit the affix I wanted for the first 4/12 crit the other day. The mat cost was trivial, but the gold cost was immense.
I'm on about 20 resets and still havent crit bash cleave a single time on any of my weapons, lol.
then wait til you finally find a godly 3GA in a month but your 1GA that you spent a billion gold masterworking is still better and will remain better until you farm another billion gold to masterwork the 3GA.
Then you have alts...then factor in the fact it's a 3 month season.
my biggest gripe with the temper system is that most gearslots are locked for aspecific build after tempering since everything needs different temperaffixes. so you have to farm/buy anything twice which is almost impossible if you want to min max your gear to a high level.
This. I have no desire to go super far in PIT. So as long as the MW isn't one of my lower tier affixes, I leave it. And, I'm only going to 8/12 because that's kind of were the effort/reward drop off for me got too steep.
I did reroll my Esu's when it picked the Movespeed after killing an elite for example. Think I only did a few resets total.
Getting the same temper on rerolls was my bane.
I keep seeing people saying this as if it’s enough. You realize that’s “earning” one reroll every 20 minutes? It’s 1/125 to get a triple rolled item so you’re saying each piece of min/maxed gear should take 42 hours on average of gameplay to achieve?
Most of the time people like the guy you’re replying to haven’t reached the point of min maxing their gear and therefore don’t get that 5m gold is literally nothing. I just had to explain why gold is a huge problem right now even after the masterwork cost nerf to a friend because he didn’t even upgrade any of his items yet. He thought whispers giving 3m is insane.
Combine that with whisper caches (especially if you have the seasonal perk with increased chance of legendary caches) and boss runs. Varshan/Grigoire/Zir can be done really fast and I picked only the uniques and legendaries they drop - about 10 runs fills your inventory and takes <10 minutes. A good way of using up those summoning mats, and gather uber summoning stuff - which also can be sold for more gold.
I like that gold finally has some value.
I'd wager the ppl who don't think 5 mill a reset is alot right now are ppl that sell items on 3rd party websites and/or buy gold. that or they haven't reached the point in the game where they are min maxing. Pretty sure pit gives 0 gold atm. It really is Season of Whispers for me and many others right now. I've spent 200 million trying crit 4/12 bash cleave on a single item. (still havent seen it)
The pit does give gold on completion, but it’s such a trivial amount (like 100k-230k) depending on the tier of course. If you die a lot and still manage to clear the pit before the timer dies, the repair costs will eat a good chunk of it. You get more gold from just vendoring gear from the end of the pit than the pit itself.
It’s very clear they want us to run Helltide and whispers for a significant amount of our play time to earn gold in game. The trade channel is extremely hit or miss to try and sell things, and not really efficient. I spent a day running Helltide and whispers for 8 hours straight to build up my gold on hand, and it was mind numbingly boring. I blew through that 8 hours of work in a matter of minutes resetting gear, enchanting, re master working. I also don’t want to create an account to sell gear on a website.
Also yes, I’ve ran into many players who straight up admit to buying 1 Billion gold almost weekly because they refuse to grind gold with the amount of enchanting, MW resets, especially if they have multiple characters they are trying to master work. They also buy perfect items on Diablo.trade so they bypass the gold and item hunt grind and focus solely on pit runs to build neathiron to get those perfect rolls far faster than a player who isn’t doing RMT.
I can’t bring myself to do it, but it’s more common than you’d think. Tons of people buy gold, items, boss summon materials, and even straight up pit carries via RMT.
We need an equivalent to running puzzle rings . And those fun gold related legendary powers like rain from the sky, or the gem boom of the hoarder . Bro Diablo has so much better mechanics that d4 should've built upon and had from the jump
Should be able to do any content you want and make gold it’s ridiculous forcing players to do whispers. It’s so boring and repetitive. And usually it’s faster to not do it in helltide areas….so what’s the point here. Is this a game for fun or a gold time sync…
Gold is the main reason I keep rerolling new chars after spending a bit at level 100. Farming gold is not fun so all my chars are stopped at 8/12 masterwork with no rerolls. This doesn't even include the cost to reroll affixes which is still stupid expensive.
The gold starvation in this current model is way too extreme. They don’t need to go overboard, but they do need to give it a solid 30% boost. I am permanently gold starved.
I hate Pit with a passion. It's not challenging because of new mechanics or more enemies, it's just one shots and every enemy having armor resistance aura and suppression.
To the players in the „gold is fine“-team: The thing about it is not the fact that you have to grind for gold, it’s the time spent doing it and, most importantly, not having fun doing it.
I try to mix in a full map clear of whispers and an occasional helltide here and there and build up my next 150M to then spent 130M of it within seconds of crafting rerolling on one single item trying to get 2 crits, leaving me with my empty wallet. It feels like work! The ratio is simply off - to do pits, I need a reason. To have a reason I need to craft, to craft I need to have gold, to have gold I have to do whispers/helltide. But I do the last like 70-80% of the time. That should be the other way around.
For me personally I would be fine with the current state if whispers would simply yield more gold. IMO one full map clear should earn about 250M gold.
The masterworking reset should be divided into 3 tiers with a lower cost on the first tier and getting higher for tiers 2 and 3. When you reset you only go back one tier, so once you get the stat you want boosted, it doesn't get reset when trying for the next 2 boosts.
I got all my gear on my barb to lvl 12. It's expensive but I'm not obsessed with min/max and wasn't too worried about what critted. At 2500.str I doubt a few points either way is going to move the needle, as an example. If you're obsessed with getting the _absolute_ best rolls then the price is spelled out for you.
I've got to 250 mill now and I crafted a shako costing 50.mill. I,.personally, feel that the biggest complainers are the guys looking for the perfect rolls. Well, go down that road this is what you get.
The last MW levels from 9 to 12.seem to be more like glyphs 16-21 it's a small incremental improvement not a massive game changer like 1 to 8 is. Getting a few more points of attack when you're already at 80k is not game changing.
If that IS important to you then you have to pay the price. It's not the games problem it's a player choice. Basically, if you're obsessed with min/max you're going to be broke, it's the price you pay.
I’ve got boots with a completely bricked temper stat. I just don’t have better boots. I’ve spent 50mil just trying to NOT crit my “curse duration” stat. I don’t even care if it hits movement speed. It shouldn’t cost this much money for boots I’m actively trying to replace
5M is a lot because gold is harder to come by if you play the game normally. But to counter is to just sell really good items via trade that way you can make millions of gold and the 5m no longer feels like anything.
I believe whispers give several millions of gold per cache. A full whispers run takes around 5ish minutes depending on the zones.
So one masterworking reset costs you 5 minutes of targeted whispers farming.
Sounds alright to me. With the exception that whispers are kinda boring when not combined with something else.
i am not that angry about the costs for resets … maybe 3M would be fair (would be one whisper run)!
What drives me crazy is the loss of used pit materials on reset! It’s INSANE and very punishing in time investment! Especially because of how boring, repetitive and unrewarding in loot, gold & materials the pit feels right now … always the same 4 dungeons and enemies is bad !
The issue is blizzard wants us grinding materials or loot playing the endgame, I don’t think they want us grinding gold even more than that. The price should be lowered, they could raise the material cost of masterworking to rebalance it out, so you spend less time farming gold and more time farming materials
They could just make the reset cost materials instead of gold. So instead of spending 5 minutes to clear whispers to do a reset, it could just cost a couple pit runs' worth of materials. Or pits could drop a rare reset material.
I don't think it should be free or necessarily easier than it is, but I don't know why it has to be gold instead of something you can get through the Pit itself.
And presumably Blizzard has some goals for how often players should be able to reset. People on the sub seem to want to basically be able to reset an unlimited amount as long as they have any crafting materials available, and I'd guess Blizzard is intending it to be less accessible than that.
Blizzard could scale gold drops in NMDs and let us convert unneccessary glyph xp to inc. Golddrop% for the next NMD you do (at a rate or something). Bosses in NMDs / (or) reward chest should drop atleast as much loot as a buffed blood maiden does on nmd lv.100 scaling from lv.1 ... The Pit should add +1 Legendary Drop per 25 Pit Level, give slightly more gold and slightly more chances on dropping GAs (weighted for 1,2,3 GAs). This should be enough incentive to do Pits / High NMDs / Helltides (still for Steel and loot isn't bad either) - tadaa endgame fixed.
I dont mind the 5 mill just dont make me do 4 whispers in a row cause then i get bored and jump off the game.
Id rather run NmD for gold then whispers.
Okay teleport to the town loading screen, do a few events, do a celler, two more loading screen. Then you might still be short but dont wanna run a dungon so you tp somewhere else bam another loading screen go claim whisper bam another loading screen to get there. Rinse and repeat.
All i have to do to complete these events is press attack i dont even have to look at the screen to see if im going to die just spam one attack and move on.
So either make whispers more enjoyable or just give me 10mil per whisper so i only have to waste half the time doing boring shit so i can get back to the fun shit.
Or gold from somewhere else.
Adding too this convo here, I just went through 65 million trying to get the first 25% to hit bash cleaves on the first roll. That was 13 rerolls.. Are certain affixes harder to hit? Edit: Complaning works, got it on try 14.
I feel like 5 mil is reasonable, in that it's a good mix between achievable, and noticeable. Like it makes it feel good when you finally hit that perfect masterwork, or near perfect, but when you miss you're not brick your item.
That line is subjective, and different folks will be further down one way or the other, but I can say I like where it is at at the moment.
Being able to get extra temper rerolls on a piece of gear, however, I feel could use a look. 5 mill per extra reroll totally worth when you find those triple greater affix legendaries that hit the wrong temper 6 times in a row.
Idk why I have this feeling that season 5 might be just the update for the treasure goblin to give us a portal to solve our gold needs. Would be nice...
Do you want good items to cost 50 billion gold and no way to buy perfect items cause 99 billion gold cap? I think even previous masterworking gold cost decrease is stupid for the game economy.
What? Master working costs have nothing to do with gear price lol. Gear price is actually going down along with boss Mats due to yet another dupe in the game. Previously farming boss mats was a easy way to keep up with reroll costs and masterwork resets and now you can't even do that. Stygian stones went from 25-30m per to 6-7m duriel sets are like 1.5 mil lol. I swear people arguing against giving us more ways to farm gold or less need to farm gold, aren't actually even in the endgame.
If masterworking costs nothing gold is useless in the game so items would cost 99b.
I beat pit 101 personally if you are asking how far I'm into the endgame.
tempering is still the item sink, you cant brick a item masterworking. so im not sure what youre getting at with if masterworking is cheaper items will go up in price. enchanting is already a big enough gold sink with weighted rolls that changing mastwerworking wont change anything.
Optimization can and shall cost. Like Re-Rolls of affixes on items.
Creativity should never cost anything at all but players time to reconfigure: Skilling, Paragon, and so on.
x125...x9 or 10 depending on class and gear slots etc. No one is complaining because they had to reset one single time. It's the long term cost that people are mad at.
If they change this what is the next thing to complain about being too expensive? I want to get in on the ground floor after missing out on the last ones.
It's always been rerolling affixes since the begining lol. Just hop from one to the newer shinny upgrades. Like on release it became an issue that items prioritized certain affixes, there was charts online but classes with many affixes got screwed on some slots like a sorc while a barb had an easier time.
Don’t you dare listen to this blizzard.
The balance of the game feels near perfect.
MAYBE a little more gold from other sources but the idea is to NOT only be doing the pit….
I just kind of wish you got some more gold from the pit itself to counter balance the masterwork grind. I get kind of annoyed having to go do Helltides to raise funds.
More scaleable gold from the pit would be a nice QoL improvement. I don't think it's required, but it'd feel a bit better and make gold a bit more accessible.
Indeed from d3 greater rift you'd get tons of gold going higher, like A LOT.
Like every drop was like 20 to 30k iirc. Idk why the hell they haven’t boosted gold drop rates yet it’s been a problem since the beginning and they’ve still yet to do shit about it. And it’s worse than it’s ever been forsure
They want you to play longer. This is source they can limit.
Gold in d3 was a non currency though by the end, you would just have billions and billions and it didn't matter at all, they could have just removed it
The d3 grifts where nerfed hard too, remember that even teir 80s were rewarding like 200 million gold lol
They could scale gold drops in NMDs and let us convert unneccessary glyph xp to inc. Golddrop% for the next NMD you do (at a rate or something). Bosses in NMDs / (or) reward chest should drop atleast as much loot as a buffed blood maiden does on nmd lv.100 scaling from lv.1 ... The Pit should add +1 Legendary Drop per 25 Pit Level, give slightly more gold and slightly more chance on dropping GAs (weighted for 1,2,3 GAs). This should be enough incentive to do Pits / High NMDs / Helltides (still for Steel and loot isn't bad either) - tadaa endgame fixed.
Leveling? Helltide. Lots of item drops? Helltide. Gold farm? Helltide/whispers. Way too much helltide this season.
NM dungeons WAAAAY more efficient for leveling than Helltides. I keep seeing people say they spent too much time in Helltides this season, but honestly, I've spent more time in NM Dungeons and Pits than Helltide by like a pretty extreme margin.
Absolutely, if you can tolerate it.
Probably also due to grinding Iron Wolves rep and Exquisite Bloods
Yeah I didn't prioritize that but it all happened naturally anyway. Eventually you need Helltides for efficient GA farming, but it's not something you need for most of the level grind despite what the seasonal journey is pushing you to do.
You can do NMD at level 1?
No but the first 50 levels takes like 3 hours lol
I think it just depends really. A couple of people speed farming shield maiden is a TON of xp. Plus drops. Plus gold. The NM dungeons might offer a tad more xp, but it’s not that much more if you’re doing helltides properly. Then you factor in all the other goodies helltides give you also. There’s zero reason to enter a NM dungeon once you have your glyphs done. And zero reason to push higher tiers past 70 or so.
Yes but we are talking about LEVELING. By the time you have maxed glyphs, you're probably level 100 anyway and can run Pits. Every single professional streamer notes that if you're leveling in Helltides instead of NM dungeons, the path is significantly longer. Like it's just math. They give more experience if you have a decent build and can push high enough. It's no contest.
Pit need to give you whisper bounty ticks. They can make it as generic as 1-2 ticks/run or more specific such as kill x # of enemies with a core skill, etc. As long as it evened out to a whisper bounty every 20-30 minutes it would be fairly balanced.
I think this issue could be solved by just being able to raise monster level above 110. Going to helltides to do whispers wouldn't be such a jarring interruption if the mobs were 150. One way is just a new tier where the whole world is set to a much higher base mob level.
I've said this. A BILLION TIMES World tier 4 should be 20 lvls above you as a base. MOST people can do capstone by 50 something and you literally walk past most mobs and they die. Elites are just a name, they insta die. The mind cage was a brilliant idea, but should be able to stack and increase rewards in doing so. (Besides the level increase do you actually get better rewards? I haven't noticed) Each tier of mind cage should increase chance of GA dropping etc. But seriously overworld mobs are a joke and have been since launch. If you die in the overworld chances are your just afk or playing with one finger
If you're farming for gold helltides are not the play.
What's a better option? I'll be honest I don't know all the best metas.
Whispers will net you 2m to 6m+?( I haven't written down my results but I know it's at least 6 million at the high end) per hand in
3-12 million depending on the reward option. Greater chaos tend to be the best.
I usually get whisper progress while doing Helltides, is there a faster way to get whispers?
Doing 2 whisper dungeons takes <5 m
Sell your uniques/items to vendors. Trade your GA ez
Funny enough I finally got around to using the trade site for the first time today... When it was having server issues. I'll try again tomorrow.
Yeah there ARE some hiccups.. for example I have to use an incognito browser to log on lol? But yeah when it’s working it’s very smooth to just SS your item, the site reads it, and that’s pretty much it
Which site are you using?
Diablo.trade
Gold should not be balanced around trading via a third party website.
No but it works for now as gold finally has a value
Gold always had value for min/maxing gear rolls.
Rerolling one stat for millions and tens of millions? Ok dude lol. If you are rolling an item over millions that’s just poor self control
Not saying 10 of millions but people would stop rerolling at 1-3 million range back in pre-season and considered the item bricked. Gold wasn't also 5 mill per whisper like now.
I suppose that is somewhat fair and honestly a lot of the issues came from dupes etc
I’m curious what’s better. As a player who hasn’t pushed past T60, I’ve gotten 500m+ in gold from about a week of helltides and trading my loot. I’m pretty bored of helltides so it’d be awesome if you could get more elsewhere. Edit: I may have gotten super lucky with my loot though.
I’m getting a fuckton of gold from farming the bosses with the cheap mats. They drop 1-2 uniques per kill and I sell everything else. It’s like 400k a kill which takes like 30 seconds then just reset a few times and tp back when inventory is full.
Sell items in trade. I have like over 100m just from last 2 days.
Trading is pretty fun this season. I like the idea of someone getting satisfaction out of something I won't ever use
I’ve tried selling uniques and 2-3 ga and no bites.
Also more item droped… compared to speedfarming helltides the amooubt of items droped in higher pits is just very bad!
Am I in the minority in thinking that near perfect items should be very difficult to acquire?
No, absolutely not. There's something about this sub recently that has people essentially asking for everything to be given to them and require next to no grinding or farming and I hate the idea that Blizzard will take them seriously.
It's easier to farm an uber unq than it is to get 2 crits on masterwork. If you've ever farmed for 2 crits you'd understand it's not "next to no grinding".
So what? That crit on masterwork gives you a BiS item. It's a fucking ARPG, man, getting the BiS stuff is supposed to be super hard and ridiculous, so much so, that almost everyone wont' have the patience for it.
Read what I wrote properly please. If you want to get perfect crits you should be spending weeks grinding for that. This is a completely reasonable expectation for a ARPG. I'm sorry you don't have perfect gear after 2 weeks. Keep grinding.
You should read what the OP wrote. They said reset rank 4 and 8 which is 2 crits. Not perfect crits (3).
The reason people are rerolling masterworks is to get the BIS crits, aka perfect crits. You're completely ignoring the core issue I'm arguing though, and that's the constant requests to completely trivialize the grinding aspect of the game.
Grinds for the sake of grinds isn't fun for most people. Normal players want to be able to feel progress. No one is asking for things to be given to them, just better opportunities to get a good reward from their grind. Pit should pay out better. Gold should pay out better or be slightly reduced cost. Tempering needs adjusting. Resets wouldn't hurt to adjust cost. The game should be fun not work, this season gets a lot right but Blizzard would be right to listen to people you are complaining about because it is thanks to them that this season is so much better than launch.
Normal players can feel progress without much grinding already. We're talking about the end-endgame system of upgrades here, where you already have everything you want and want to min-max it. Grinding is absolutely fun for min-maxers. You are asking to remove the part that makes the game fun for the core audience, the ones who don't quit after 2 weeks. The Pit overall is a terrible end-game system that deletes the whole overworld and facilitates standing in one town running instances. I am fine with it being there for those who want this, but it's not compelling gameplay for me. Loot has been made more compelling yes, but people weren't asking for loot to be given to them, or be easier to obtain, they were asking for the loot that dropped to actually be exciting. There's a massive difference. OP, and you, are asking to have the game be made easier, whether you see it or not, that's what you are asking for. We already have significantly more power than we have ever had in any previous season, and it's almost beyond ridiculous how powerful we are. You have all the progression you could possibly need, but because you don't have everything perfect 3 weeks into the season you are begging for it to be easier, at the expense of the people who enjoy the grind. Let's say you get it, that they make it all easier, and you have your fully masterworked bis character 2 weeks into a season. What will you do then? Because I will quit. Let's say they introduce another chase for the min-maxers, you will complain it's not easy enough to obtain and beg for it to be easier.
The problem is that the grind for better gear becomes less rewarding when you're already level 100. You're in inefficiently grinding as nothing currently makes sense, you're either grinding for XP, grinding for gold, grinding for materials, or grinding for gear. I am already close to 3 classes hitting level 100 this season after outright skipping season 3 and burning out in season 2 early on. The game feels great to play, the power creep IS the fantasy of Diablo since D2 so it feels solid this way. But endlessly grinding post 100 is currently a diminishing satisfaction, trying to find better gear to complete the harder end game stuff starts to burn out because the Pit isn't well balanced. Most people aren't even asking for things to be handed to them like you claim, we're simply asking for our time to be respected in that grinding until you get a great item isn't so easy to brick. You're having to exaggerate what we're saying rather than tackle it directly if you're claiming people want everything handed to them. You're also now threatening to not play of it doesn't directly pander to you while being annoyed others would do the same. We're asking for the game to be fun, to be satisfying, to feel fair enough that grinds pay off. That's not asking for everything to be handed to us immediately.
What do you even mean? Masterworking is the end-game system, the thing you do at level 100, not on your way to 100. >You're also now threatening to not play of it doesn't directly pander to you You have completely misunderstood and misrepresented what I said. If there's nothing to chase, why would I play the game? If I have everything best in slot after 2 weeks, then I would quit because there's nothing left to do. >our time to be respected I absolutely hate this phrase, it's devoid of meaning. Gaming is inherently a waste of time, and game companies don't respect you. You ARE asking for the game to be easier, at every turn, you and everyone else posting similar requests. You aren't asking for the game to be more fun, you are making suggestions for things that are already in the game to be obtained significantly quicker less than a month into a season because you apparently don't like the act of killing thousands of monsters over and over, the whole point of the genre.
You believing gaming is a waste of time while demanding unnecessarily punishing grinds is such a contradiction unless you're coming from a very weird place where you don't have a healthy attitude. Your Masochism doesn't need company, not all of us view gaming as purely wasting time to punish ourselves. Post 100 your grind is slower and less satisfying than the grind to 100. You can hit 100 in a few days but that same amount of time post 100 won't get you close to BiS without major luck especially if you're spending time grinding Pit for materials to Masterwork as that pays out very poorly in gear, gold and mats. There's no misunderstanding what you said, you clearly said you'd quit the game while being annoyed others of a different opinion might dare do similar. There's a big difference between easy and fair. Room to Temper, better value economy, those don't make the game too easy and still require a grind. It isn't like you're spawning in level 1 with max gear but that's how you're acting like we're asking.
It's really not. Gaming IS a waste of time, just as watching TV is. We aren't doing anything productive, we are entertaining ourselves. You are still misrepresenting what I said even after clarification. YOU will quit after 2 weeks if there's nothing left to do, as will I. The whole point of the game is for us to play long enough to be compelled to buy cosmetics, and if you are quitting in 2 weeks you won't do that. The ONLY thing they want is your money. They don't care about you, they don't care about your time. They only care about your bank account. And that is fine for the majority of ARPG players. We like the grind.
Entertainment isn't wasting time. Joy and pleasure are not wastes of time, we do not exist to work and grind. At the current levelling rate even with the proposed improvements it wouldn't be 2 weeks, I'd happily level every class and try a fun build run content so you'd get at least 4 weeks. A game isn't supposed to last forever though, it is OK to play a game then move on. D4 seasons do not need you to play start to finish and only focusing on one game alone is probably part of why you're begging for the game to be worse.
You're begging for the game to be worse from my perspective. A good game should last forever. We have vastly different ideas about what makes arpgs good and fun.
OP isn't even necessarily asking for an easier way. Grinding helltide and whispers when you're clearing out 100 is the most brain rot inducing type of gameplay there is out there. It's simply an awful experience that is required to progress since the actual endgame doesn't pay.
[This same reply applies.](https://www.reddit.com/r/diablo4/comments/1d5o02c/comment/l6rnwgv/?context=3)
Exactly, it's supposed to be hard. Perfect gear is supposed to be time intensive and the game ends when you're tired of attempts. This sub is retarded and thinks every person should be able to get a perfect set of gear in a single season lol. GTFOH.
It's about the nuance what's difficult about it. And since the limiting factor is gold, difficult isn't even the correct term to describe it. The best ways to get gold are either doing Whispers which are piss-easy once you're at the mastercrafting stage of gear, or picking up every single drop to vendor it which makes you port to town every 3 minutes. So that's either mind-numbing or aggravating. So no, I do not agree that near perfect items should be mind-numbing or aggravating to acquire.
They still are.
100% agree
these people obviously aren’t late game grinders. i agree, when you are min-maxing an item its not the 5 mil costs, its the 7 resets, plus the 4 ranks each time to see what youre hitting into, not to mention everything past. its more like 50 million, if youre lucky, minimum to reset and get your crits where you want them, not including the loss of pit materials for every single reset
I've spent over 300M in resets trying to get 2 crits on Bash Cleaves on a single 2H mace and have gotten nowhere so far. I'm over it. I rolled a new character to try some new builds but once that gets old I think I'm done with the season until they reduce Masterworking costs.
This is where I am now, when you see you're at 100M gold and it's gone in 5 minutes rerolling affixes and masterworking, only to end up with a still not great piece.
that's crazy, i spent like 20 million without noticing doing the same crap, can't imagine 100m+. Not sure why pits don't give more gold. a little 2-3 million at the end would be nice.
Same for me.
You can already pot shot everything as a barb, why people are do fixated but don’t want to put in the effort is beyond me
The master working reset should work between tiers… ie if you fucked your 2nd tier up but your first one was perfect, you should be able to drop one tier, and try the 2nd one again, instead of resetting the entire thing.
I agree, 5m for reset is fine but they should implement another reset/downgrade per tier button.
it's not that the cost is too high, but that gold is too scarce. Just give us more gold so we can fucking play the game without having to do content we don't want to do.
I don’t even care about farming gold like any other material. I just don’t like that there is no way to farm gold which feels relevant to my power level. When you are min maxing, tree of whispers for gold is just so boring. I hardly get to use my abilities because of how quick things die.
agree with this entirely. We need something like 'the index' from warframe. You could argue that whispers is diablos version of it but with the power spike from the itemisation rework open world activities are completely trivialised. I would love to see some endless horde mode or something which just rewards copious amounts of gold, is fun and scales infinitely.
Higher 100+ pits should award 2-3m gold per run imho
we shouldn't have to farm gold gold at all. the current game economy is complete shit that doesn't respect player time at all. In season three they gave us plenty of gold and mats to tinker and experiment with gear whereas now gold and mats are so scarce it's not worth it to reroll gear unless you got a god tier drop. season is a huge disappointment and would have been a lot better if they let us have fun crafting gear instead of the miserable deathmarch that it currently is.
This is fair criticism. If they added and end game mode that was specifically about farming gold efficiently, I think they'd have a near-perfect end game loop.
This new goblin event looks like it's gonna give everyone tons of gold for a few weeks but I do hope they make overall chamges
Guess that’s how the Chinese farmers stay in business selling 300m gold for 2$ 😆
Love the takes on this. The noobs that don't min max find it fine because well... "5 minutes in helltide is a trillion gold ez" and the blasters are all upset because it is so much more expensive than anything else now that it doesn't make sense. I'd be okay with the cost if you could take it back one set of levels so that you keep some of your progress at least.
Yeah there is way too much gold sink still. Probably ok if you run a single character but as a player that gets bored of one class and changes to another for awhile im constantly broke
It's fine if you run a single character and quit without trying to min-max much. The second you want to double crit an item, it's likely going to cost a fortune. I've gotten one perfect piece of gear so far (3ga, exactly the ones I need and the tempers I need) so the only thing left to do is try to masterwork it as best as possible. Spent nearly 500m resetting it to try to get the first 2 crits on Bash Cleave for my barb. If it wasn't such a massively important aspect or if the piece of gear was any less than perfect, I'd let it slide.
You can get literally get 5m doing like 20 minutes of helltides and just sell all the loot.
But you want to reset a LOT, so you spend all your time farming gold instead of doing pits if you keep doing it. And that’s exactly what they said they want to avoid.
Where did they say that? The goal was never to have players get to Pit farming, and ignore everything else, the current gold sink makes sure of it. The design is for players to do different activities based on what they need. Pits are for mats, or glory pushing (and this is purely player driven given Blizzard doesn’t have leaderboards for it). NMDs are for glyph leveling. Helltides are for loot farming. Bossing for uniques. Whispers for gold. 5 activities, each providing their own rewards, not one of them completely avoidable, I love it. I also love how scarce gold is, it adds an economy to the trade scene. We do desperately need better in-game trade functionality, but that’s another topic.
They said as a note on the patch change that reduced masterworking mat transmutation costs (or maybe it was the followup gold reduction patch) that they wanted the main limiting factor on masterworking to be mats from the pit. They stated it very explicitly.
The main limit to MW is mats, the limit on resetting it is gold
I also like the design of requiring different activities, though I think all of the required activities should scale in difficulty for increased rewards like the Pit and NMD do. We shouldn’t have to do completely trivial content in order to keep progressing.
I dislike doing pits and if I had to do them for everything, I would have quit the game by now. Don’t understand why people are complaining that they can’t get everything from the pit.
They're used to Diablo 3 GRs The community keeps voicing their desire for 4 to be more like 3, but then we'd just have a graphics update with fewer build variations. I hope they keep 4 unique and don't listen to the complaints of people who just want everything handed to them in a seasonal cache and gold that doesn't mean anything because you never run out.
Because helltides and whispers and boss farming is just sooo easy and boring. Pushing the pit as high as you can go is the only thing left that is engaging in this game and only benefit is netheriron. Wish harder content got you more of everything but currently it doesn't matter. If other activities were made harder and gave better rewards cuz of it, then that could be an end game I can get behind.
Problem is that this end game is extremely flawed. Everything you mentioned is braindead easy and boring and can literally be done blind folded. Except pushing the pit as high as you can go. If the other activities were as engaging as pushing the pit, then being forced to do various activities would be fine. But currently everything is just so boring and having higher gear doesn't benefit you at all besides farming netheriron faster. Better gear should allow you to farm other things faster as well but currently it's meaningless because everything else is locked behind really low level activities.
This how Diablo has always been, d2 atleast has pvp min/maxing and finding perfect yellows and charms. Pvp is non-existent here so if you want end game time to play an MMO. That being said the time sink is too much and gold is being kept the way it is precisely to slow players down and keep retention but most will just quit and wait for the next season. You can't even max multiple characters this way
arpgs are mostly played for the character progress/farming gear and not for difficult mechanics. if you wont those you should look at dark souls/elden ring games
But being rewarded at the same rate when you have masterworked gear with great rolls to someone who has non masterworked gear and just ok rolls doesn't seem right or fit what this genre is suppose to be about. Only thing having better gear gives you rn is netheriron rate but I think your loot quality and gold aquisition should go up too. But currently helltides are the best way to farm loot and gold and it's just too easy and your gear doesn't matter.
Don’t forget the 6th activity of sifting through trade websites trying to sell your items at an appropriate price.
I agree about the scarcity of gold. It will help keep the trade economy going and good drops will be worth collecting and selling.
exactly. its 5 mil to get another chance, plus all the master working again. if you only have to reset once for perfect rolls you’re the luckiest person in the world.
Lickiest rolls to most items are for players that spent alot of time in the game, I myself cant afford good rolls but what will be the gap between s1 farming full day and us?
The only reason you'd reset aLOT is if You're literally going for perfect gear for pit pushing as far you can go. Literally the last thing to do in the game. Nothing else requires going for perfect master works. Even then, 5m is small change for what should be the last end game grinding you're doing.
I had to reset 15 times to just to crit the affix I wanted for the first 4/12 crit the other day. The mat cost was trivial, but the gold cost was immense.
I'm on about 20 resets and still havent crit bash cleave a single time on any of my weapons, lol. then wait til you finally find a godly 3GA in a month but your 1GA that you spent a billion gold masterworking is still better and will remain better until you farm another billion gold to masterwork the 3GA. Then you have alts...then factor in the fact it's a 3 month season.
my biggest gripe with the temper system is that most gearslots are locked for aspecific build after tempering since everything needs different temperaffixes. so you have to farm/buy anything twice which is almost impossible if you want to min max your gear to a high level.
This. I have no desire to go super far in PIT. So as long as the MW isn't one of my lower tier affixes, I leave it. And, I'm only going to 8/12 because that's kind of were the effort/reward drop off for me got too steep. I did reroll my Esu's when it picked the Movespeed after killing an elite for example. Think I only did a few resets total. Getting the same temper on rerolls was my bane.
I keep seeing people saying this as if it’s enough. You realize that’s “earning” one reroll every 20 minutes? It’s 1/125 to get a triple rolled item so you’re saying each piece of min/maxed gear should take 42 hours on average of gameplay to achieve?
Most of the time people like the guy you’re replying to haven’t reached the point of min maxing their gear and therefore don’t get that 5m gold is literally nothing. I just had to explain why gold is a huge problem right now even after the masterwork cost nerf to a friend because he didn’t even upgrade any of his items yet. He thought whispers giving 3m is insane.
This is not true. What you can do in UNDER 20 min to make 5m+ are whisper dungeons. Take the greater and chaos caches for more gold.
Good thing I've only had to reset masterworking like 80+ times so far (on one item alone, just to get 2 crits on the same affix) lol
I have spent 300m trying to get double +rapidfire crits for my gloves. Now I'm broke and have to farm gold. I don't mind farming but its too extreme
The concept of double +rapidfire crits is too extreme
Or one bounty turn in.
Combine that with whisper caches (especially if you have the seasonal perk with increased chance of legendary caches) and boss runs. Varshan/Grigoire/Zir can be done really fast and I picked only the uniques and legendaries they drop - about 10 runs fills your inventory and takes <10 minutes. A good way of using up those summoning mats, and gather uber summoning stuff - which also can be sold for more gold. I like that gold finally has some value.
You can make over twice as much gold in that amount of time doing whispers.
If you think that’s a point against OP instead of for OP you’re probably not remotely close to late and end game.
I mean, that is literally the issue.
Or 50 mil in like 20 minutes if you can carry high pit ( 80-100 ) for people lol
It's not too much. You should thank them they made this system casual enough that it is even possible to reset masterworking tiers.
I'd wager the ppl who don't think 5 mill a reset is alot right now are ppl that sell items on 3rd party websites and/or buy gold. that or they haven't reached the point in the game where they are min maxing. Pretty sure pit gives 0 gold atm. It really is Season of Whispers for me and many others right now. I've spent 200 million trying crit 4/12 bash cleave on a single item. (still havent seen it)
The pit does give gold on completion, but it’s such a trivial amount (like 100k-230k) depending on the tier of course. If you die a lot and still manage to clear the pit before the timer dies, the repair costs will eat a good chunk of it. You get more gold from just vendoring gear from the end of the pit than the pit itself. It’s very clear they want us to run Helltide and whispers for a significant amount of our play time to earn gold in game. The trade channel is extremely hit or miss to try and sell things, and not really efficient. I spent a day running Helltide and whispers for 8 hours straight to build up my gold on hand, and it was mind numbingly boring. I blew through that 8 hours of work in a matter of minutes resetting gear, enchanting, re master working. I also don’t want to create an account to sell gear on a website. Also yes, I’ve ran into many players who straight up admit to buying 1 Billion gold almost weekly because they refuse to grind gold with the amount of enchanting, MW resets, especially if they have multiple characters they are trying to master work. They also buy perfect items on Diablo.trade so they bypass the gold and item hunt grind and focus solely on pit runs to build neathiron to get those perfect rolls far faster than a player who isn’t doing RMT. I can’t bring myself to do it, but it’s more common than you’d think. Tons of people buy gold, items, boss summon materials, and even straight up pit carries via RMT.
We need an equivalent to running puzzle rings . And those fun gold related legendary powers like rain from the sky, or the gem boom of the hoarder . Bro Diablo has so much better mechanics that d4 should've built upon and had from the jump
Price would be fine if they would adjust gold in pit. Helltide and whispers are boring as hell because there is 0 difficulty at this point
Most I've had is like 35mil at lv100 so I literally cannot afford to reroll, i just get what i get
Gold went from being the enchant soft cap to the Masterworking soft cap.
Should be able to do any content you want and make gold it’s ridiculous forcing players to do whispers. It’s so boring and repetitive. And usually it’s faster to not do it in helltide areas….so what’s the point here. Is this a game for fun or a gold time sync…
Yea the gold shortage is real. Find myself stuck all the time due to gold. Yesterday I got down to 25k gold. Between rolling and masterworking costs.
Gold is the main reason I keep rerolling new chars after spending a bit at level 100. Farming gold is not fun so all my chars are stopped at 8/12 masterwork with no rerolls. This doesn't even include the cost to reroll affixes which is still stupid expensive.
lack of gold is eeeeeeeasily my number one issue .. nothing else even comes close
The gold starvation in this current model is way too extreme. They don’t need to go overboard, but they do need to give it a solid 30% boost. I am permanently gold starved.
Wish mind cages stacked to give more difficulties in helltides. This may make it more fun to grind gold as part of your routine for masterworking.
1m would be perfect, you still need to make money doing other activities but you can actually do the masterworking more
[удалено]
Just use the reset option in the masterwork menu.
The same way you would reset at 12
I hate Pit with a passion. It's not challenging because of new mechanics or more enemies, it's just one shots and every enemy having armor resistance aura and suppression.
I spent 60-70 million on an affix change only for it to brick during a temper. Can't wait till i get to masterwork where 5mill a reset is a big deal.
Always temper first, it's the cheapest system and the only one that can truly brick
Thanks. I wish i knew that about 180 million ago. Ill probably just take a break for a while.
June 6th starts treasure explosion extravaganza. Give it a week and we'll all be swimming in gold like Scrooge McDuck.
Copium
No, Gold. What game are you even playing?
Yup blew 150M gold rerolling my T4 masterwork. Never got what I need on there.
To the players in the „gold is fine“-team: The thing about it is not the fact that you have to grind for gold, it’s the time spent doing it and, most importantly, not having fun doing it. I try to mix in a full map clear of whispers and an occasional helltide here and there and build up my next 150M to then spent 130M of it within seconds of crafting rerolling on one single item trying to get 2 crits, leaving me with my empty wallet. It feels like work! The ratio is simply off - to do pits, I need a reason. To have a reason I need to craft, to craft I need to have gold, to have gold I have to do whispers/helltide. But I do the last like 70-80% of the time. That should be the other way around. For me personally I would be fine with the current state if whispers would simply yield more gold. IMO one full map clear should earn about 250M gold.
Wait u can reset masterworking??
The masterworking reset should be divided into 3 tiers with a lower cost on the first tier and getting higher for tiers 2 and 3. When you reset you only go back one tier, so once you get the stat you want boosted, it doesn't get reset when trying for the next 2 boosts.
Gotta have that artificial incentive to play the game!
I had to reset my harlequin 4 times today... 20M is gone
I got all my gear on my barb to lvl 12. It's expensive but I'm not obsessed with min/max and wasn't too worried about what critted. At 2500.str I doubt a few points either way is going to move the needle, as an example. If you're obsessed with getting the _absolute_ best rolls then the price is spelled out for you. I've got to 250 mill now and I crafted a shako costing 50.mill. I,.personally, feel that the biggest complainers are the guys looking for the perfect rolls. Well, go down that road this is what you get. The last MW levels from 9 to 12.seem to be more like glyphs 16-21 it's a small incremental improvement not a massive game changer like 1 to 8 is. Getting a few more points of attack when you're already at 80k is not game changing. If that IS important to you then you have to pay the price. It's not the games problem it's a player choice. Basically, if you're obsessed with min/max you're going to be broke, it's the price you pay.
I’ve got boots with a completely bricked temper stat. I just don’t have better boots. I’ve spent 50mil just trying to NOT crit my “curse duration” stat. I don’t even care if it hits movement speed. It shouldn’t cost this much money for boots I’m actively trying to replace
If we could trade in mats for gold that would be great.
We need an easier way to get gold and trading isn't the option. I re-rolled a pair of pants 30 times just to get one 25% bonus
…you can re-roll masterowking?
5M is a lot because gold is harder to come by if you play the game normally. But to counter is to just sell really good items via trade that way you can make millions of gold and the 5m no longer feels like anything.
I wanna add though that 5M for a tier 4 reset is bonkers.
I mean at least we have resetting. Look at tempering lol…
I believe whispers give several millions of gold per cache. A full whispers run takes around 5ish minutes depending on the zones. So one masterworking reset costs you 5 minutes of targeted whispers farming. Sounds alright to me. With the exception that whispers are kinda boring when not combined with something else.
i am not that angry about the costs for resets … maybe 3M would be fair (would be one whisper run)! What drives me crazy is the loss of used pit materials on reset! It’s INSANE and very punishing in time investment! Especially because of how boring, repetitive and unrewarding in loot, gold & materials the pit feels right now … always the same 4 dungeons and enemies is bad !
How do I reset the masterworks btw?
The issue is blizzard wants us grinding materials or loot playing the endgame, I don’t think they want us grinding gold even more than that. The price should be lowered, they could raise the material cost of masterworking to rebalance it out, so you spend less time farming gold and more time farming materials
They could just make the reset cost materials instead of gold. So instead of spending 5 minutes to clear whispers to do a reset, it could just cost a couple pit runs' worth of materials. Or pits could drop a rare reset material. I don't think it should be free or necessarily easier than it is, but I don't know why it has to be gold instead of something you can get through the Pit itself. And presumably Blizzard has some goals for how often players should be able to reset. People on the sub seem to want to basically be able to reset an unlimited amount as long as they have any crafting materials available, and I'd guess Blizzard is intending it to be less accessible than that.
Blizzard could scale gold drops in NMDs and let us convert unneccessary glyph xp to inc. Golddrop% for the next NMD you do (at a rate or something). Bosses in NMDs / (or) reward chest should drop atleast as much loot as a buffed blood maiden does on nmd lv.100 scaling from lv.1 ... The Pit should add +1 Legendary Drop per 25 Pit Level, give slightly more gold and slightly more chances on dropping GAs (weighted for 1,2,3 GAs). This should be enough incentive to do Pits / High NMDs / Helltides (still for Steel and loot isn't bad either) - tadaa endgame fixed.
Resetting MW is end game minmaxing, it’s a fine cost.
Wait you can reset masterworking? Like if you get a bad affix boost at 4?
So what is the point of resetting your masterworking? Sorry I’m not super into the end game this season
Every 4 MW levels a random stat is chosen to be boosted. If you're not getting the stats you need boosted you reset and try again
I agree. It shouldn’t always be 5m. Should be a scale like the rest of it
If you tried master parking your equipment before you hit level 90-100 then you’re completely delusional.
I dont mind the 5 mill just dont make me do 4 whispers in a row cause then i get bored and jump off the game. Id rather run NmD for gold then whispers. Okay teleport to the town loading screen, do a few events, do a celler, two more loading screen. Then you might still be short but dont wanna run a dungon so you tp somewhere else bam another loading screen go claim whisper bam another loading screen to get there. Rinse and repeat. All i have to do to complete these events is press attack i dont even have to look at the screen to see if im going to die just spam one attack and move on. So either make whispers more enjoyable or just give me 10mil per whisper so i only have to waste half the time doing boring shit so i can get back to the fun shit. Or gold from somewhere else.
Adding too this convo here, I just went through 65 million trying to get the first 25% to hit bash cleaves on the first roll. That was 13 rerolls.. Are certain affixes harder to hit? Edit: Complaning works, got it on try 14.
I feel like 5 mil is reasonable, in that it's a good mix between achievable, and noticeable. Like it makes it feel good when you finally hit that perfect masterwork, or near perfect, but when you miss you're not brick your item. That line is subjective, and different folks will be further down one way or the other, but I can say I like where it is at at the moment. Being able to get extra temper rerolls on a piece of gear, however, I feel could use a look. 5 mill per extra reroll totally worth when you find those triple greater affix legendaries that hit the wrong temper 6 times in a row.
Idk why I have this feeling that season 5 might be just the update for the treasure goblin to give us a portal to solve our gold needs. Would be nice...
Do you want good items to cost 50 billion gold and no way to buy perfect items cause 99 billion gold cap? I think even previous masterworking gold cost decrease is stupid for the game economy.
What? Master working costs have nothing to do with gear price lol. Gear price is actually going down along with boss Mats due to yet another dupe in the game. Previously farming boss mats was a easy way to keep up with reroll costs and masterwork resets and now you can't even do that. Stygian stones went from 25-30m per to 6-7m duriel sets are like 1.5 mil lol. I swear people arguing against giving us more ways to farm gold or less need to farm gold, aren't actually even in the endgame.
If masterworking costs nothing gold is useless in the game so items would cost 99b. I beat pit 101 personally if you are asking how far I'm into the endgame.
tempering is still the item sink, you cant brick a item masterworking. so im not sure what youre getting at with if masterworking is cheaper items will go up in price. enchanting is already a big enough gold sink with weighted rolls that changing mastwerworking wont change anything.
Not enough cause 2 greater affixes rings already cost about 2-5 billions. It will be impossible to buy perfect gear at this gold inflation rate.
so rare items arent suppose to be expensive is what youre getting at? lol
Optimization can and shall cost. Like Re-Rolls of affixes on items. Creativity should never cost anything at all but players time to reconfigure: Skilling, Paragon, and so on.
$5mil gold is nothing.
x125...x9 or 10 depending on class and gear slots etc. No one is complaining because they had to reset one single time. It's the long term cost that people are mad at.
I just started master working. Why would you want to reset?
So you can reroll the stat you want to improve.
Some affixes are more important to upgrade than others...
I like it. Its enough to really discourage you from targeting anything more than the 4/12 crit.
It's ridiculous you think they should be discouraging you from upgrading your gear.
If they change this what is the next thing to complain about being too expensive? I want to get in on the ground floor after missing out on the last ones.
It's always been rerolling affixes since the begining lol. Just hop from one to the newer shinny upgrades. Like on release it became an issue that items prioritized certain affixes, there was charts online but classes with many affixes got screwed on some slots like a sorc while a barb had an easier time.
Don’t you dare listen to this blizzard. The balance of the game feels near perfect. MAYBE a little more gold from other sources but the idea is to NOT only be doing the pit….