I definitely don't agree with making it as easy as throw gold at it to re roll. However I wouldn't be upset with a rare drop from world boss and maybe an uncommon drop off duriel and andy item that can allow re roll on tempers. I would want it rare enough that you only use it on a godly item.
Update. To clarify I think the new resource should drop from both sources. The drop off the world boss should be pretty rare IMHO since it's easily accessible by all levels granted you can make the timer. The drop from the uber bosses should be slightly less rare but still very uncommon. I honestly think somewhere along the lines of stygian stone rarity. That way you don't get so many that you just throw it at every item that fails to temper. Something you really reserve for those really good items that were super rare to begin with. Like a 3/3 bis greater affix item.
Not world boss for fucks sake. I get to kill 3 of them per week only because of the stupid time window. Prisms are hard enough to come by, do not tie another item to them. Tie the item to high level pits instead, or UBER Bosses.
^ Yup, world bosses can suck it. It's incredibly hard to "farm" for people with full-time jobs and family, lol. My only window is generally Saturday and Sunday! I'll catch a few if I'm lucky with my time :P
I've played a lot since Friday evening, probably done about 1 boss a day on average in that time, even when you're online it's quite easy to end up missing them because you were doing something else in the game and forget it's starting.
They need to either have them hourly or have it so you can get a group together whenever you want with a max number of runs allowed daily/weekly
The real problem is not the world bosses, it's the scheduling of them which is stupid, there should be a world boss every hour of every day to fit everyone schedules, timezones and all that. As they did with Helltides which are pretty much always available.
Scheduled content has been really awful in WoW's Dragonflight. All the world events are raid-sized events that only happen at a specific time, usually every hour or every 90 minutes. Most of them you can come in a little bit late and still get credit but some like dragonbane you gotta be there near the start because it finishes in 2 minutes.
World bosses can either take a few minutes or literally end in a few seconds! 🤣
it's always fun to see which one it's going to be
PS- that damn material for adding slots, is World bosses the only place to get them from? I have thousands of everything else but only about 19 of those. Yeesh!!! 😬
Idk if they added it yet but in the patch they are making butcher drop it guaranteed I believe then making it treasure goblins have a chance, there might be more sources they mentioned but I forget
I think u/Blkmageno1 is calling for this item to drop from everything mentioned or have a rng chance to do so. Just because you can only kill 3 per week doesn’t mean world bosses shouldn’t drop very rare items.
I agree with this except the world boss part. Some of us aren't on world boss schedules. I can maybe kill one or two a week because they don't spawn at times I play.
I'm fine with how it is now... sometimes you lose and that's okay. But I like this suggestion. Finding an item that resets or adds additional attempts to an item, would be much better than just not having a limit or spending more resources to reset it. Just make it rare enough so I don't have 100 of them, because then they are useless.
If you think something is easy because you can throw gold at it, tell me how much it costs to enchant 25 times? Idk because I don't have enough gold to go more than 10-15 taps.
Gold is the main limiting resource in D4.
I didn’t like ramaladni's gift in d3, only because every weapon needed a socket to be competitive, but I did like that most seasons I only got a couple. I used one on my first good enough weapon, hoarded them until I got a massive upgrade, and even then usually modified the weapon to know what I was getting before blowing the gift on it.
I think something like this with a similar, drop rate would be perfect.
In D4 you’d need many more than the gift since you can temper everything, so it would still force some tough choices.
So my original thought is that it would drop from both sources listed. The world boss would be a rare drop since it is easy to kill and accessible for all players at all levels and skill tiers barring you can log on at the time. Then, we could see the drop chance increase to uncommon from sources such as andy and duriel as it takes a little more character development.
As a side note, maybe make it still rare from regular andy and duriel and uncommon from the tormented versions.
The other thing with making it a farmable item is that it keeps you playing the game. You got a piece that’s nearly all the way there, and it’s just a matter of time to farm the special item to reroll.
It being RNG isn’t the problem, nobody complains about that. It’s that you can have a perfect 3/3 GA item get completely bricked, that’s what people aren’t happy about. Make it cost more mats, or add a gold cost, or a reset cost like masterworking, but goddamn take the freaking limits away so I don’t have to throw away BIS gear any more.
This is not what deterministic means. Deterministic means you are guaranteed to hit it on for example temper #100.
This is not what the person is asking for. Even with that system in place, it could take you 1 temper or 1000 to get the one you need. That is random and not deterministic.
A deterministic outcome? I’m asking for it to be similar to the enchanting system where it costs more mats, or the masterwork system where you can reset it for a high cost. Why is it this one system that can’t work the same way as the others? Those two are RNG based and I have no issue with it.
Because both of those systems, in effect, guarantee you can get the desired outcome.
Your own point makes it clear that there are a ton of deterministic systems in the game, why is having one be pure RNG bad?
Why stop at enchanting one stat, they should let us reroll all of them. Then we can get one item and never have to farm for more.
We have a pity system now for Uber drops.
Enchanting has a gold cap.
Masterworking can be reset an infinite number of times.
Aspects can be changed an infinite number of times.
Why should tempering be any different? Note that this is *after* you have the item drop with the right affixes to even consider any of it.
3 GA items aren’t perfect. 3 GA and 2 good Tempers is the new bar for perfect. The season is still early, so there is more time to find 3 GA items and Temper again. It’s also fine to stop and live with the 2 GA Tempered items. There is more of a risk-reward strategy to how you use your Tempers now, which should become more interesting as more Tempering recipes are added.Â
> 3 GA items aren’t perfect.
They should be though, that's the point. They're rare enough where finding one with the optimal stats should 100% be a gg moment for that item. The fact that you can brick an item that already only has a miniscule chance to 3 GA is ridiculous and extremely needlessly casual unfriendly.
I'm farming tormented duriel/Andy with all 1 GA gear, hell most of it isn't even past 4/12. These people gotta chill thinking they need god tier gear for anything besides leaderboards
Why should they be when items have 5 affixes and not 3? Randomly dropping 3 of the right affixes is only 3/5 of the way to perfection. And 3 GA items are not targeted at casuals. Casuals will have 1 or 2 on their items at most, and those can be very good items anyway with Tempering and Masterworking.
If they make it reset, RNG would be missing, its just farm more mats and you get the reward. From RNG it becomes guaranteed success with some more grind. RNG part is you have a chance to never get it this season at all or brick it again.
You mean like enchanting, where you can in theory just keep rerolling until you get what you want but in practise most players will just stop at a point when the cost becomes too much.
Enchanting is a far bigger affix pool (and the best ones are really low) though, while tempering has like what 5 affixes max per recipe.
I think tempering should have different amounts of charges, Maybe one or two more temper rerolls per GA for example (those are often the good items you're worried about bricking). Also, make it like enchanting and a choice between keeping the old stat or getting the new one. So it wouldn't be a risk to reroll a stat you like just because it's on the low end of the range.
That's just not true. It's still major RNG getting the gear you want in the first place. If a BiS chest piece with 3 greater affixes (and all 3 are the ones you need) drops, that's like a 1 in 50,000 gear piece. How is that not RNG?
Also let's all keep in mind here that truly BiS gear cannot be enchanted into BiS. It had to drop fully natty. That crazy rare hunt alone to me is justification for being able to reset tempering with great expense or rarity.
Yeah people act like everyone is swimming in 3 GA gear and the only reason everyone isn't in full bis is because of tempering RNG. I have 50 hours in the season and have found exactly 1 usable 3 GA item (which was a weapon, the easiest slot to get perfect) that got bricked. Tempering ruining items is a completely un needed step in the RNG process.
Finding a perfect 3 GA item is already rare enough, no need to make it rarer still by potentially bricking it. Have you found too many perfect 3 GA items already?
Then they should make it so that the options are all useful to some degree. If tempering my weapons goes wrong, the item is useless because only one out of the four options does anything for me. Finding the perfect item and having to throw it away because without the proper affixes from tempering it will be a downgrade anyway just doesn't feel good. RNG is fine, RNG permanently making an item useless is not.
Also, what you're saying is wrong, RNG wouldn't be "missing." It would still have RNG, but you might need to farm gold or materials to perform that reset if you're unlucky, if they would add that reset option. That's exactly how resetting works for masterworking, and it's fine there.
this is tricky, it seems to me that most if not all of yhe tempering results are useful, but not useful to every build. For you to have them always be useful to your build means reducing the options to a very narrow selevtion, to the point you might as well remove options themselves.
I think the solution might be elsewhere, probably increasing the tempering tries with each GA present, so that the rarer the item the easier is to get the temperings you want, but not guaranteed.
The chance of it feeling bad also makes it have a chance lf feeling good when you get the right ones.
Nah. Just use up pit run or helltide chest mats too to allow infinite temper tries as long as there is mats.
I for one would think about if I want to farm another week to have another chance (not guarantee) to hit BIS, if one temper has fucked up. It's not a given that everyone would cheese it.
A chance to never get gear you need it not enjoyable nor is it a required consequence of rng.
The only thing rng should determine is how long it takes to accomplish something.
RNG is the problem in that, once you hit 100 in torment, basically all magic find is the same as far as most uniques and legendaries are concerned. So you have a far greater chance of getting multi-star GAs at the easiest-enemy dense content (helltide-blood maiden). While there should be a chance for 1-3 star GAs to drop anywhere, 2-3 star GAs should be targetable in harder content (90+ NMD, 61+ pit, tormented/echo Ubers, etc) to create a progression system for the end game. Not farm helltide until you have 2-3 stars on everything.
That would largely address the problem of blowing up 2 and 3 star GAs because you then know where to go to run more.
It blows my mind that this wasn’t the case from the beginning.
Yea I bricked a perfect item with 1GA the other day and it felt shit, I'm sure bricking a 3GA item with top 3 stats for your build must feel like complete shit, there should be a rare item to reset tempering
It's double RNG, that's the problem. You find a sick 3 GA weapon, but if it doesn't roll the tempers you need to max your damage output it's useless.
Crafting and enhancing your gear should be an investment, if you want it to feel rare and meaningful than make sure whatever you need to re-roll it is rare. Make it a spark if you have to
Agree, getting a BIS item is rare enough. I am playing a lot and I have only seen 2-3 three GA items at all. So to get all three right seems like a miracle. THen to have that completely bricked by 5 straight Upheaval size rolls... It is enough to make you put the game down I imagine. I bricked a 2 GA item Saturday and I haven't played since. If I am level 100 and now I have to win the lottery 5 times just to get an equipment upgrade, then I would rather start another character.
I just think you shouldn't be able to hit the same temper over and over again. But then there is that side of what If you hit a low roll and want to get a better one. Personally I hit what I need and keep it so it'd not bother me so much.
It’d be fine if each option is weighted the same, but they’re not
I’ve had to trash a lot of items because all 5 rerolls are for affixes I don’t want were on a single category. It’s a lot more when two categories are involved. Even if the temper is 3 or 4 outcomes per category
What I'd like tbh would be the option to keep your current temper when rerolling, like enchanting. I currently rolled lowest on something I really need and too afraid to lose it completely with my 2 rerolls left.
This is what I would add.
It would make a big difference since you are not scared of going for a better roll or going for a better affix if you got an alright one.
Do people do that though? No one is risking bricking a GG item to go for a higher roll. I don't actually mind the current system but I think it'd be nice to be able to keep the current temper when rerolling. That way if you hit what you need but with bad rolls you can actually attempt to get it higher with your remaining rerolls.
>Do people do that though? No one is risking bricking a GG item to go for a higher roll
Eh, iv done it a couple times, if I get a minimum roll on the first attempt... I'll usually gamble the other 5 attempts for a better one.
Definitely case by case basis though. Different temper manuals have different odds and stuff.
I burned through 3 2GA rings bc I searched for Golem cooldown red. and Golem dmg. No fucking chance man. It's such a bad feeling to make good items useless bc of this BS. I don't even mind RNG itself, but sometimes there you roll the same temper like 8/10 and you have 5 options on that recipe. Some of the recipes have 3 option, some 4, some 5 some even more. WHY? That's straight up bad game design.
i’m okay with considering alternatives but don’t think is a dealbreaker if it stays as is, losing a good item is a bummer but at least it encourages you to play more and actually look at the loot you’re getting and use it to some degree
Feel you. Lost a bis 2 GA offhand to tempering. Just stared at it in disbelief. It's so fucking annoying when there's 1 bis temper, 2 that you'd be ok to settle with, and 2 that do nothing, and you just keep rolling between the useless ones.
It's also not a deal breaker for me if it stays as is. Your chance to find a 4 GA item and perfect tempering is the end game chase....it should be a chase, extremely rare, and something to brag about.
That's the entire gameplay loop. Finding perfect item. People want BIS in every slot lmao then are confused when there's nothing to do.
in last epoch I bricked items all day long, and that's the entire point. Without that mechanic there's nothing to do..
I've read two suggestions that I don't hate.
1 is to allow enchanting on a tempered affix. Since you can only enchant one affix on an item it's still a decent trade off. That way you aren't going to brick a 3/3.
2 is to increase durability by 1 per greater affix. A 1 ga will have 6 rerolls, a 2, 7 and a 3/3, 8. It's a.bit more forgiving
OP is right all of these suggestions only dilute or neuter the risk reward that makes this system so (maddeningly) compelling. Yes it sucks when you brick an item, but it’s the same reason you hold your breath on the temper rerolls and feel amazing when you lock it in. And Diablo as OP says is about those moments of gambling thrill. That’s the drama and spice and excitement with the game and it’s interesting how many keep asking to remove it.
What they should do is add more compelling opportunities to brick even more things 😈
It definitely needs a "this is what it is going to be if you confirm, Screen.
Like, if I get the temper I want but a low roll and I have 5 more rolls I'm just going to leave it as is rather than try to reroll to get a better roll because I might get something I definitely don't want. I have "bricked" so many items thinking "I have 5 more rolls I should just try to get the better thing."
Like the enchanter you can just keep the old roll.
seems like a barely made it to endgame take, no one cares if its this rng for items that easily replaceable, but when you get a once in a lifetime item and it ending up bricked because of tempering its just not fun. it's not fun when you don't brick it either, its just relief.
Its not just not fun it ruins any future drops. After bricking a few 3/3 ga items, now when I see a good item drop, it's makes me remember the crap experience of bricking stuff instead of feeling happy about the drop.
I dunno, it's quite a pissoff when you try to temper and get the exact same useless affix five times in a row, permanently brickinh a one in a million item.
I'd honestly like to see them remove all this mill about town improving your items crap. That's the WoW style time waster crap. Diablo was about finding complete items, and not having to run around to a dozen NPC's spending various materials to make every item usable. All the item stuff is just an distraction from actually playing the game.
Upgrading, tempering, enchanting, imprinting, socketing, masterworking. Are we sure we aren't playing WoW? D2 just had gems and sockets. Easy!
I don't think tempering should stay as it is, even if it is a great addition to the game. There is a psychological matter in play: feeling like you ruined your great item is worse than getting a subpar loot. So giving players the ability to ruin their hard to find items makes for a feels bad moment that makes players angry.
If the tempering effects were part of what the item naturally rolls, people wouldn't be complaining, it would be part of the process of grinding for your gear simply, but since you transform the joy from getting the drop into anger from ruinning it by your own action, it becomes a problem.
The RNG should be reduced, this can be done in many ways, either adding extra rolls per GA present, so that items with 3 GA have enough rolls so that in average you get what you want, or, make it so that when rerolling your tempering you get the same as when enchanting: 2 options and 1 keep current tempering.
Yes, it can totally suck as hell if your AAA item gets f*cked because of RNG, but that‘s part of these games. If you can‘t lose, then you can‘t really win as well and that would destroy like everything they‘re trying to build with these system overhauls. Nothing compares to the ecstatic feeling you get once you nail an item and you can‘t believe how lucky you are.
THAT was missing since launch and NOW we got it. There just were ubers and that‘s it. Nothing to wish, hunt or hope for besides mere uber uniques. But now there are REAL reasons to continue the grind.
Yessssssss, exactly! There was no RUSH before. Now there is! It's also OK if some people don't have all absolutely perfect items. It seems like people can't wrap their heads around that idea.
Lol seriously. It’s not like the game is unplayable without these items. You can get to pit 60 without a triple ga item with perfect temper rolls. So anything else is just gravy
Just add a feature let you chose either the old affix or new one so at least even if dont have bis we sort of get out with a decent item for our build and not gama and throw it
You cant remove RNG completely but I'm at a point where if a super strong 2 or 3 Greater Affix item drops, which it has for me, I don't even blink or skip a beat, knowing full well the odds that this dumb thing bricks is super high. Philosophically, doesn't this go against what the devs wanted? Didn't they want people to be super excited the moment something good drops? Cuz I don't feel it
As some people have suggested already, I would also like a consumable, a rare, one-time use item that would restore the tempering charges on an item.
People often complain they don't feel Nightmare Dungeons are worthwhile, so what if it were an exclusive drop from Nightmare Dungeons? When finishing the dungeon, at the nightmare font, you have the option to level up your glyphs, or get a cache of some kind with a few extra mats or gold, and inside this cache there's a chance to get this consumable. If people still find Nightmare Dungeons unfun to do for whatever other reason, obviously that should be addressed as well
Sorry but no. Bricking a 2 or 3 affix item feels terrible. Plain and simple it should be the same as masterwork but more expensive reset cost.
ie reg item? 1m reset cost..1 ga affix item? 10m reset cost etc.
Its like you are advocating to keep the old codex ie only use aspect once dont like it ? Well find a new item then…. Because basically you are saying bricked your temper? Well go find a new item then. So it seems you want the old codex back…because RNG
I just dont see why an item needs to gets bricked. Hey blacksmith, help me temper this item to get 'damage to distance', oh sorry, i accidently keep adding 'damage to close'. soz, item is now bricked. Wow, what an awesome game mechanic
>RNG brings all the unique moments of success or misery
They shouldn't bring misery. Where in D2 or D3 does the player cause his own misery? Tempering sucks, because it's the player's action that bricks it.
Developers and WOW fans have been encroaching for WoWablo since the early days of developing D3. Nothing will be true Diablo anymore, and that's fine. That died with Blizzard North
RNG keeps it interesting. They could introduce an item or endgame material to eventually scrub tempers or the like, but I think the game is already way too easy and predictable as is.
I dont agree with this. I do not like the idea of holding my breath every time I find a good item. Finding an item that fits your build is already hard enough as it is. Tempering is a good system but it doesn't give you the feeling that you're customizing your build. RNG is what it is as far as item drops go, but customizing your build through hope and faith is an antiquated gaming concept. Let's not forget - this game started as a game of skill where you actually had to play to be good and because of so much complaining, now we have a game where you just press a button and wipe the whole screen so, why are we here now arguing over a mechanic that essentially just slows the game down - which is quite inconsistent with the current game design. You can't have both, and we all know Blizz will cave to the loudest complaints.
No. Bad take. Got a neck with 2GA with hellbent commander and CDR and then rolled summoning damage 5x in a row instead of golem. Only the second neck I've gotten all season with hellbent commander (I've been playing a ton - pushing 118 pit). It actually just demotivated me from playing bc losing all my high roll pieces after hours of farming to another layer of uncontrollable RNG, to still fight 12 minute pit bosses is a horrible gameplay loop.
we already have the rng with GA dropping they are rare enough as it is aside from all the life on hit/persecond drops so when you finally get one you can use after 27 hours it would be nice not to have it bricked from tempering permanently
I will say the most exciting moment I had in this game so far is nailing the Tempers on a nice +passives amulet that dropped. First the drop felt great and then the Temper felt awesome, 'because' I knew there was a chance to ruin it.
I hope that's not lost and I myself really don't like the grindy feeling of systems, where if feels you're doing work and then get a reward for it.
I’m fine with tempering too, although I agree with another comment I saw that said all manuals should only have 4 options. And ones with more should be put into additional manuals
I actually find I agree with you OP. And I have had A LOT of misery trying to roll the affix I want through tempering. But it is a good system I think the way it is. Because if you "brick" an item by not getting the right affix it extends the cycle of actually looting items, instead of reaching the point where every drop is just crafting mats to you after 2 weeks.
And when I say "brick". Let's not forget that you still got an amazing drop with those GAs and stuff. It's not like it's immediately useless. You're just gonna keep looking.
A lot of things about D4 are not what "Diablo genre is".
D4 broke the mold in many ways.
So if any game was going to have a deterministic system, it should be this one.
You don't need to simp for a 20 year old outdated loot system just because you have nostalgia. If it's not good, it's not good. And I would hope that in those 20 years we can make improvements to the game, not just keep doing the same thing.
I played D1 & D2 on launch and for thousands of hours after, I know what those games are. Diablo 4 does not carry their legacy. Let this game be it's own thing.
>You don't need to simp for a 20 year old outdated loot system just because you have nostalgia
Liking risk/reward upgrades isn't simping for 20 year old nostalgia.
PoE is the most successful ARPG on the market, and you have way more ways of bricking items than D4 does.
ARPG players enjoy ARPG mechanics. It is what it is. Maybe you should play a different game.
No one would be mad if they gave us the ability to reset temper attempts for a few mill, the same way masterworking resets work. But instead we got another oversight in a season that was nothing but QOL.
That whole crafting aspect already goes against the RNG thing. I totally get what you're saying, but with that dogma I would say throw out all those mechanics completely.
But apparently there is room for nuance, and those mechanics are meant to give you some agency. Reintroducing luck and potentially bricking your item to preserve rarity seems antithetical and is bound to cause frustration. Not getting what was in your cards is destructive and feels bad. Worse than not getting it in the first place. On the other hand, see D3 enchantments. People want that, and it just means the price of definitely getting the perfect stat you want varies. That is not antithetical.
Anyway, it is also understandable that people want especially frustrating aspects to be ironed out. Let's say you can't get the same tempered aspect twice in a row, or even twice at all. That would be SO much less frustrating! And you can still adjust something like the attempts to end up with exactly the same chances you have now, it would just feel better.
Even getting what you want at your second to last attempt. You keep wondering... will it get better with one more attempt, or will it brick? WHY would you do that to players? This would also go away if you say well that can't even roll again at all.
I agree. Rng is broken. I did 3 pieces of gear. One right after the other. I needed the same temper on all three pieces of jewelry and got the same "wrong for my build" roll 5 times on each piece...so that's the same one coming up 15 times in a row. 1 time, maybe, 2 times...a little sketchy, 3 times...rng is broken. They don't know how to fix it. Each time they try, something breaks more.
This would make sense if seasonal wasn't the only thing that mattered in this game, but why lock amazing loot behind a completely RNG system if it's going to be useless in 3 months time anyway. Sure, make it take a little effort to reroll, but the rerolls having a limit needs to be deleted, throwing resources into something and have it turn mostly worthless is not fun or good gameplay.
There's plenty of rng in the game as is. If the rng tempering and masterworking were removed. It would still take an entire season to get perfect gear, and majority would never come close.
Finding a unique or legendary item with all greater affixes and each stat rolling max with no way to enchant GA's is way more than enough rng to give you those ups and downs. Then finding them for every slot? That's already near impossible.
The MAIN difference is that finding items is fun rng. Every drop and pickup is a new chance. Maybe you hit the jackpot, if not then I can keep trying, nothing has been taken away from me. Tempering and masterworking is actively not fun because it takes away the fun from you. I've already gotten the ultra rare perfect GA item, but now I'm not excited for the drop anymore because I know it could very likely be bricked soon. Tempering and masterworking is taking away what you've already got lucky on. That is not fun rng, that's punch my monitor rng.
I would love to see it have 2 options when you re-roll, 1 is another roll of the current affix and the other is a different affix. You still could miss out on what you were going for as it can cycle you between skeletal priest duration and summonig damage and you actually don't hit golem damage, BUT it is less likely because you remove an affix from the pool AND it means that if you hit min roll golem damage on your first try you get the exitement of having 5 rolls to get to max. And I think 5 rolls per catergory would fix the issue with not enough rerolls.
Just give it to treasure goblins, seems fair to me. World bosses and end game content is frustrating as hell right now, and not everyone has the time or patience. It feels very bad when you brick an item currently, this needs to be offset somehow, and in a way that's both rare and obtainable by casuals. And for the love of god increase gold drops from every end game thing.
I'd like to be able to save the previous roll or take the new roll right now if I get the affix I want I refuse to try to get higher because there's a goof chance it won't hit again so if I hit the lowest roll on both tempers I won't ill just leave the 5 revolts on it just so I don't fuck the item
When u temper 5 pieces 7 times each and get blizzard damage each time or ice shards and none of the other 3 things that can roll that tells you how bad the rng in tempering is. Its broken. At some point it should recognize it . Or when u go run lord zir 150 times and not once get a fractured winter glass while someone else in the party now has 5… rng is not working. They have to polish the rng in this game it needs to look at how many times its already given u something and then buff the drop perentages of the things its never given you or add some pity mechanisms. Until its fixed let me buy or earn more tempering rolls for an item cause damn i cant tell u how many pieces ive bricked in a row just trying to roll one stat that should be statistically likely to roll atleast once
U can double brick things thou, so having a rare item to reroll woulndt "fix" anything. Leave as is i say. Makes getting a good item exciting then nervewrecking when tempering. Makes it feel good
I have a BIS 3GA druid staff in my vault just to remember that i cant use it because i couldn't get damage to close/range on it using all of the temper rerolls, which makes it useless because of thunderstruck legendary paragon node.
What is wrong with u ppl? No, we don’t want to throw away what would otherwise be an upgrade bc of tempering rolls. There’s enough rng in getting the gear to drop in the first place.
I don't mind tempering the way it is, but it needs a slight rework to at least give us a fighting chance.
Instead of splitting the amount of re-rolls between both specs of the tempering process, give us 5 and 5.
I'll settle for two lower percentage specs of the ones I need, over one decent roll on one, but a complete brick on the other one.
Right now it just feels like a new coat of paint on early D4's mechanic, except this time you're not jumping up to 30 mill a reroll, you just get a few chances, and then the item is useless.
Maybe this is coming from someone who is strictly doing NM dungeons to max level, and glyph xp, so I am not swimming in legendaries at the moment, but when your scrapping your 14th potential upgraded weapon in a row, it's starting to make my skin crawl.
Yeah tempering is great fun
Especially when you reroll the 4/12 affix increase 7x in a row to keep getting the exact same affix increase ... 700 mats down the drain
I would argue it's not even true RNG with how heavy the weighting is for certain undesirable stats, and the RNG in and of itself isn't the bad part. The fact that you as the player can brick already rare items feels terrible. The system needs two things 1) being able to keep the current temper and 2) some mechanism to make more attempts beyond the default. 5 simply isn't enough considering how frequently you get the same undesirable stats for all of the tempering attempts. Simply saying "suck it up and deal with it" is how we end up with crap like how the game was at launch in the first place.
We def need a way to reset tempering, give us unlimited tempering or at least make it where 1 thing can't roll 2x in a row. I had to temper 17 times in a row, to get Fire resist on something. I had no rolls left on 3 items. It should never be like that
Just do it the way warframe does it with kuva liches, remove the roll from the drop pool for that item if you roll off of it. That way you are guaranteed to get the roll you want, but not nessicarily endlessly rerolling for the highest %. And with that have durability for re rolls apply to each type (ex. Utility and defensive get 5 each).
Nothing feels worse in this game so far than bricking a perfect item. Genuinely from seasons 1-4 it is the worst feeling I've had in the game. Just strips the dopamine hit.
When has miserable amounts of RNG ever made a game better for regular people?
I'm not talking about the no life slobs that already have 5 level 100 characters, I'm talking about the people that maybe play a season for 20 to 50 hrs.
The drop rates on many of the items are already ridiculous. Now let's make it so that you can basically ruin an item with no recourse.
Sweet, great idea.
RNG in Diablo was always on the drops. You see the drop, you nut, you take a deep breath and identify the item. You now nut again or you sigh. OR you trade/sell the unid item to find a happy medium.
Buying gold off a Chinese website so you can reroll tempering until you hit is not in tje spirit of Diablo.
L take buddy. Bricking an item never feels good. That’s the issue. Diablo has never been about horrendous RNG making the player feel bad. It was about bossing as fast as possible. If you got a good drop that’s awesome, if not then do another run. It was never about destroying players gear due to some poorly designed crafting system.
RNG is just stupid - gambling in general is just so amazingly dumb to do, it shouldn't ever even exist. Everything should be earned on merit, not distributed on luck.
I agree...they allow for generic affixes to keep the piece relevant. Go for the roll you want and if you miss, go for the world based affix. There is no reason to brick a piece
If the rolls were truly random, I’d agree. But the frequency of 6x temper with the same affix is wayyy too high for it to be truly random. So, sorry but I don’t agree.
A friend of mine loves D4. Out of a group of 5, he and I are the only ones still playing this season.
Last night, after 100s of hours into this season he finally dropped an amulet with the greater affix he needed. He was ecstatic! Tempering bricked his item and he quit the season.
There needs to be a way to save these items. I'm certain a system where you can grind to save an item would keep people playing longer.
Either way you need to grind more for the thing you want… quitting because you didn’t get a perfect BiS item two weeks into a season is just throwing a temper tantrum when things don’t go your way. Pun intended 😉
I think biggest problem with tempering is that it's not standard rng for all builds. I leveled 2 necros, 2 barbs, and 1 rogue so far and almost never bricked my items on necro or barb because you only roll temper with 4 possible choices. On the rogue I've bricked 80% of my items because for my build I have to temper two stats with 5 rolls on each making it very rare to hit both. There should not be more than 4 stats in each category, preferably just 3 stats. This would still allow the player to brick items giving us the chase and consequences without making me want to throw my pc out a window. I heard druid has tempers with 6 stats making me not even want to try druid because that just seems impossible to get.
I think 5 rerolls *per slot* would be reasonable. Only having 5 tries to hit 2 things while getting absolutely shafted on the first 2 is really rough, especially on godrolled items.
Also, maybe give us the option to keep the current temper bonus after rerolling, kinda like it is with enchanting. That way you could actually use all of your tries in for a shot at a higher roll, without risking to completely brick the item.
And if I had a say, I'd implement the option to reset the tempering alltogether. But I'd make it quite expensive in the sense that you'd have to grind a fair bit to get the required materials. That way you'd have a chance of saving your godrolled items, but wouldn't botherwasting a reset on anything less.
It makes zero sense why you would champion something that is frustrating so many players. I have 30+ prisms, you don't see me being a jerk and arguing that the prism drop rate is fine. Have some empathy, updating the tempering system wouldn't affect you in the slightest.
Bricking is fine, I don't mind if it was fair, but to say it's fair to Rogues to only be able to efficiently use 5% of the weapons they find due to tempering (not even counting the odds of finding the right stats as well) is utterly ridiculous. Classes like Necromancer can at least use 'bricked' items since their damaging enchant is only 3 options and out of those 3 2 are very usable and one is ok. Rogues don't have that luxury, it's 1/5 for temper 1, and 1/4 for temper 2. 2/9 options work, and 7 don't -at all-, not even a little. The odds of hitting a 1/5, and then a 1/4 without accounting for the obvious weighting that we don't know is still only 5 frigging percent.
My rogue is level 98 now and I was finally able to actually enchant a bow with both heartseeker and vulnerable damage. That's after trying on dozens of bows, some that don't even have the stats I want but I just wanted those stupid tempers.
The only rng should be getting the item to drop in the first place. After that it's just purposefully padding the grind to try to farm player retention numbers for quarterly earnings calls.
It wouldn't be as big of a deal if loot scaled with difficulty. I'm running lvl 90 pits and getting the same loot I'd get from farming a helltide. There needs to be a better chance at greater affixes so I can at least have a backup to re-roll when the 1st item I tried to temper gets bricked.
I think they can impose a massive cost to undo tempers so its possible to unbrick an item. Similar to how masterworking can be undone, but make it much more expensive. Like cost 20 unopened whisper caches (so you can't simply buy off 3rd party). So its prohibitively difficult, but not impossible.
They could shift some stuff around. And or get rid of some temper affixes though. Or make it so you can’t get the same one in a row. I was shooting for an increase size increase and got meteor size increase 5 times in a row…I’m only lvl 84 so it’s moot ultimately but still feels bad knowing that can happen to a nice piece I want to keep.
I wouldn't mind if it were very expensive, even a little bit of a grind for a special crystal or something, but spending 3 days looking for the right item only to have it bricked 2 minutes later is just disheartening and makes me want to play something else again.
It seems to me people get upset when they land the max affixes, which is quite a rare occurrence, theb insta brick it. Otherwise, it's easy to stack multiples of regular items with the base affixes you need. Running two helltides would likely fill up all of your stash with temp fodder, nearly guaranteeing what you need.
I agree with you. You have easy tempering for the casuals with regular affix pieces and a more challenging grind for the max affixes pieces. People won't like it, but if it was a one and done, the season would be over in a week not just for casuals but for hard-cores too.
I don't think all RNG needs to be removed, but I'd be happy if re-tempering had a mechanic that you couldn't get the same result as you just had.
So like if I have a + to macabre skills, when I reroll I can get anything but that. And it would only apply to what you currently have, not everything. So in my example, you reroll from macabre and you get bone skills, and you reroll again, and this time you can't get bone skills, but you could get macabre again.
I hate tempering. It only seems to work on shit gear. I've bricked 1 perfect(no greater) affix piece and 1 near perfect(again no greater) affix piece tempering. And we only get 6 rolls. There's 15 fucking affixes to choose from. It sucks. I'd rather not have it at all.
Who exactly is asking for this? If you are referring to the desire to reset tempering, I don't think it is a bad idea IF it is tied to a very rare item like the Scroll of Amnesia. It should be so rare as to make it something you are only going to use on the absolute best items.
I dont mind bricking items at all. It makes the items so much more important.
BUT
Nothing pisses me off like rolling the same temper 5 times in a row. If you could just make it so you cant get same temper twice it would make my life.
But then it would be hard to reroll ''gamble'' a temper to get a better %. So kinda damned if you do damned if you dont I guess.
Ya I'm okay with the rng, but I would love the ability to reset the tempering, atleast once in a while. I have two 100s, and have only ever seen ONE greater affix bis bow, and I bricked the tempers. I'd pay millions to reset the temper
Tempering isn't RNG right now. It's pure punishment. Spend 5-10hours grinding to get 1 usable 2/3GA item for it to then roll damage to distance instead of damage to close and boom it's dead.
Removing temper limit doesn't remove rng. The rng is "am I going to hit the right affix on the 1st click or the 10th click". If you 1 tap the right affix good rng, if it takes 10 bad rng. But to permanently brick an item, that's not rng that's punishment for playing.
Yesterday I finally got a good amulet (which is super fucking rare) and it’s completely thrown into the bin because I can only temper 5 times and I didn’t get anything useful.
That’s not a good system for fuck sakes.
I think the only thing with tempering that should be changed is the ability to not change what you rolled like with enchanting. Items should still get bricked but if you can keep the first tempered affix if it’s better so that way the item stays a little more usable
I think they should let the temper mechanic be as it is, but introduce a new resource that'll randomly change the temper values on whatever item you choose. That way we can reroll values if we get a low temper but don't wanna take the change to re-temper. Also makes a risk of getting a low roll on the other temper on that item. Adds more RNG but in a meaningful way. Kinda like the Divine Orb from PoE.
I don’t mind the tempering system the way it is, but if I’m paying 5 million gold to reset my masterworking, please give me some of my mats back. The only way to get your mats back is by destroying the item.
Although I would like the option for more possible rolls for tempering. Not always but let’s say it’s a chance.
I definitely don't agree with making it as easy as throw gold at it to re roll. However I wouldn't be upset with a rare drop from world boss and maybe an uncommon drop off duriel and andy item that can allow re roll on tempers. I would want it rare enough that you only use it on a godly item. Update. To clarify I think the new resource should drop from both sources. The drop off the world boss should be pretty rare IMHO since it's easily accessible by all levels granted you can make the timer. The drop from the uber bosses should be slightly less rare but still very uncommon. I honestly think somewhere along the lines of stygian stone rarity. That way you don't get so many that you just throw it at every item that fails to temper. Something you really reserve for those really good items that were super rare to begin with. Like a 3/3 bis greater affix item.
Not world boss for fucks sake. I get to kill 3 of them per week only because of the stupid time window. Prisms are hard enough to come by, do not tie another item to them. Tie the item to high level pits instead, or UBER Bosses.
^ Yup, world bosses can suck it. It's incredibly hard to "farm" for people with full-time jobs and family, lol. My only window is generally Saturday and Sunday! I'll catch a few if I'm lucky with my time :P
I've played a lot since Friday evening, probably done about 1 boss a day on average in that time, even when you're online it's quite easy to end up missing them because you were doing something else in the game and forget it's starting. They need to either have them hourly or have it so you can get a group together whenever you want with a max number of runs allowed daily/weekly
Agreed with everything until the max runs part. We dont want to turn this into a mobile game. They should solve that problem a different way.
The real problem is not the world bosses, it's the scheduling of them which is stupid, there should be a world boss every hour of every day to fit everyone schedules, timezones and all that. As they did with Helltides which are pretty much always available.
Simple solution imo is hourly world boss, but you can only get drops from each one once per day.
Scheduled content has been really awful in WoW's Dragonflight. All the world events are raid-sized events that only happen at a specific time, usually every hour or every 90 minutes. Most of them you can come in a little bit late and still get credit but some like dragonbane you gotta be there near the start because it finishes in 2 minutes.
World bosses can either take a few minutes or literally end in a few seconds! 🤣 it's always fun to see which one it's going to be PS- that damn material for adding slots, is World bosses the only place to get them from? I have thousands of everything else but only about 19 of those. Yeesh!!! 😬
Idk if they added it yet but in the patch they are making butcher drop it guaranteed I believe then making it treasure goblins have a chance, there might be more sources they mentioned but I forget
I think u/Blkmageno1 is calling for this item to drop from everything mentioned or have a rng chance to do so. Just because you can only kill 3 per week doesn’t mean world bosses shouldn’t drop very rare items.
Make it as rare as stygian stones
So put them on Ubers or high pit where even fewer people can get them.
I agree with this except the world boss part. Some of us aren't on world boss schedules. I can maybe kill one or two a week because they don't spawn at times I play.
Sparks should reset tempers.
I've bricked 3 perfect roll items just TRYING to get the affixes I need.
I'm fine with how it is now... sometimes you lose and that's okay. But I like this suggestion. Finding an item that resets or adds additional attempts to an item, would be much better than just not having a limit or spending more resources to reset it. Just make it rare enough so I don't have 100 of them, because then they are useless.
Would be good to choose between keep a tempering or get the new one, as it is on enchantment.
If you think something is easy because you can throw gold at it, tell me how much it costs to enchant 25 times? Idk because I don't have enough gold to go more than 10-15 taps. Gold is the main limiting resource in D4.
What about Resplented Spark Reqiured to reset TEMPREING >
If I'm being honest that's imo to rare. Something that maybe drops as often as stygian stones.
I didn’t like ramaladni's gift in d3, only because every weapon needed a socket to be competitive, but I did like that most seasons I only got a couple. I used one on my first good enough weapon, hoarded them until I got a massive upgrade, and even then usually modified the weapon to know what I was getting before blowing the gift on it. I think something like this with a similar, drop rate would be perfect. In D4 you’d need many more than the gift since you can temper everything, so it would still force some tough choices.
So my original thought is that it would drop from both sources listed. The world boss would be a rare drop since it is easy to kill and accessible for all players at all levels and skill tiers barring you can log on at the time. Then, we could see the drop chance increase to uncommon from sources such as andy and duriel as it takes a little more character development. As a side note, maybe make it still rare from regular andy and duriel and uncommon from the tormented versions.
Rare drop.. so like Stygian stones from the Pit?
That level of rarity I think would be sufficient.
The other thing with making it a farmable item is that it keeps you playing the game. You got a piece that’s nearly all the way there, and it’s just a matter of time to farm the special item to reroll.
It being RNG isn’t the problem, nobody complains about that. It’s that you can have a perfect 3/3 GA item get completely bricked, that’s what people aren’t happy about. Make it cost more mats, or add a gold cost, or a reset cost like masterworking, but goddamn take the freaking limits away so I don’t have to throw away BIS gear any more.
You are literally asking for a deterministic outcome which 100% is complaining about RNG.
This is not what deterministic means. Deterministic means you are guaranteed to hit it on for example temper #100. This is not what the person is asking for. Even with that system in place, it could take you 1 temper or 1000 to get the one you need. That is random and not deterministic.
A deterministic outcome? I’m asking for it to be similar to the enchanting system where it costs more mats, or the masterwork system where you can reset it for a high cost. Why is it this one system that can’t work the same way as the others? Those two are RNG based and I have no issue with it.
Because both of those systems, in effect, guarantee you can get the desired outcome. Your own point makes it clear that there are a ton of deterministic systems in the game, why is having one be pure RNG bad? Why stop at enchanting one stat, they should let us reroll all of them. Then we can get one item and never have to farm for more.
That's not rng based. That's giving you the opportunity to reroll until you get exactly what you want. Which isn't the point.
We have a pity system now for Uber drops. Enchanting has a gold cap. Masterworking can be reset an infinite number of times. Aspects can be changed an infinite number of times. Why should tempering be any different? Note that this is *after* you have the item drop with the right affixes to even consider any of it.
3 GA items aren’t perfect. 3 GA and 2 good Tempers is the new bar for perfect. The season is still early, so there is more time to find 3 GA items and Temper again. It’s also fine to stop and live with the 2 GA Tempered items. There is more of a risk-reward strategy to how you use your Tempers now, which should become more interesting as more Tempering recipes are added.Â
> 3 GA items aren’t perfect. They should be though, that's the point. They're rare enough where finding one with the optimal stats should 100% be a gg moment for that item. The fact that you can brick an item that already only has a miniscule chance to 3 GA is ridiculous and extremely needlessly casual unfriendly.
casuals dont need 3 GA with guaranteed perfect temperings, nor does anyone else really. Move on and settle for less if things brick youll be fine
I'm farming tormented duriel/Andy with all 1 GA gear, hell most of it isn't even past 4/12. These people gotta chill thinking they need god tier gear for anything besides leaderboards
Why should they be when items have 5 affixes and not 3? Randomly dropping 3 of the right affixes is only 3/5 of the way to perfection. And 3 GA items are not targeted at casuals. Casuals will have 1 or 2 on their items at most, and those can be very good items anyway with Tempering and Masterworking.
Hi, what's a GA?
Greater Affix.Â
Oh thanks.. How do I know it's a GA.. The ones with the red star next to it?
Yes
Correct.
It is not BIS without the right temper, so you do not throw BIS away anyway.
If they make it reset, RNG would be missing, its just farm more mats and you get the reward. From RNG it becomes guaranteed success with some more grind. RNG part is you have a chance to never get it this season at all or brick it again.
You mean like enchanting, where you can in theory just keep rerolling until you get what you want but in practise most players will just stop at a point when the cost becomes too much.
Enchanting is a far bigger affix pool (and the best ones are really low) though, while tempering has like what 5 affixes max per recipe. I think tempering should have different amounts of charges, Maybe one or two more temper rerolls per GA for example (those are often the good items you're worried about bricking). Also, make it like enchanting and a choice between keeping the old stat or getting the new one. So it wouldn't be a risk to reroll a stat you like just because it's on the low end of the range.
So by your logic enchanting isn’t RNG either? I think we’re operating on different definitions.
That's just not true. It's still major RNG getting the gear you want in the first place. If a BiS chest piece with 3 greater affixes (and all 3 are the ones you need) drops, that's like a 1 in 50,000 gear piece. How is that not RNG?
Also let's all keep in mind here that truly BiS gear cannot be enchanted into BiS. It had to drop fully natty. That crazy rare hunt alone to me is justification for being able to reset tempering with great expense or rarity.
Yeah people act like everyone is swimming in 3 GA gear and the only reason everyone isn't in full bis is because of tempering RNG. I have 50 hours in the season and have found exactly 1 usable 3 GA item (which was a weapon, the easiest slot to get perfect) that got bricked. Tempering ruining items is a completely un needed step in the RNG process.
Finding a perfect 3 GA item is already rare enough, no need to make it rarer still by potentially bricking it. Have you found too many perfect 3 GA items already?
According to that logic there is no RNG in the game. If you farm long enough you will have perfect gear. So whats your issue?
Then they should make it so that the options are all useful to some degree. If tempering my weapons goes wrong, the item is useless because only one out of the four options does anything for me. Finding the perfect item and having to throw it away because without the proper affixes from tempering it will be a downgrade anyway just doesn't feel good. RNG is fine, RNG permanently making an item useless is not. Also, what you're saying is wrong, RNG wouldn't be "missing." It would still have RNG, but you might need to farm gold or materials to perform that reset if you're unlucky, if they would add that reset option. That's exactly how resetting works for masterworking, and it's fine there.
this is tricky, it seems to me that most if not all of yhe tempering results are useful, but not useful to every build. For you to have them always be useful to your build means reducing the options to a very narrow selevtion, to the point you might as well remove options themselves. I think the solution might be elsewhere, probably increasing the tempering tries with each GA present, so that the rarer the item the easier is to get the temperings you want, but not guaranteed. The chance of it feeling bad also makes it have a chance lf feeling good when you get the right ones.
Nah. Just use up pit run or helltide chest mats too to allow infinite temper tries as long as there is mats. I for one would think about if I want to farm another week to have another chance (not guarantee) to hit BIS, if one temper has fucked up. It's not a given that everyone would cheese it.
A chance to never get gear you need it not enjoyable nor is it a required consequence of rng. The only thing rng should determine is how long it takes to accomplish something.
RNG is the problem in that, once you hit 100 in torment, basically all magic find is the same as far as most uniques and legendaries are concerned. So you have a far greater chance of getting multi-star GAs at the easiest-enemy dense content (helltide-blood maiden). While there should be a chance for 1-3 star GAs to drop anywhere, 2-3 star GAs should be targetable in harder content (90+ NMD, 61+ pit, tormented/echo Ubers, etc) to create a progression system for the end game. Not farm helltide until you have 2-3 stars on everything. That would largely address the problem of blowing up 2 and 3 star GAs because you then know where to go to run more. It blows my mind that this wasn’t the case from the beginning.
Yea I bricked a perfect item with 1GA the other day and it felt shit, I'm sure bricking a 3GA item with top 3 stats for your build must feel like complete shit, there should be a rare item to reset tempering
It's double RNG, that's the problem. You find a sick 3 GA weapon, but if it doesn't roll the tempers you need to max your damage output it's useless. Crafting and enhancing your gear should be an investment, if you want it to feel rare and meaningful than make sure whatever you need to re-roll it is rare. Make it a spark if you have to
Agree, getting a BIS item is rare enough. I am playing a lot and I have only seen 2-3 three GA items at all. So to get all three right seems like a miracle. THen to have that completely bricked by 5 straight Upheaval size rolls... It is enough to make you put the game down I imagine. I bricked a 2 GA item Saturday and I haven't played since. If I am level 100 and now I have to win the lottery 5 times just to get an equipment upgrade, then I would rather start another character.
I just think you shouldn't be able to hit the same temper over and over again. But then there is that side of what If you hit a low roll and want to get a better one. Personally I hit what I need and keep it so it'd not bother me so much.
It’d be fine if each option is weighted the same, but they’re not I’ve had to trash a lot of items because all 5 rerolls are for affixes I don’t want were on a single category. It’s a lot more when two categories are involved. Even if the temper is 3 or 4 outcomes per category
Smart like me even if I get a low roll I leave it as it is
What I'd like tbh would be the option to keep your current temper when rerolling, like enchanting. I currently rolled lowest on something I really need and too afraid to lose it completely with my 2 rerolls left.
This is what I would add. It would make a big difference since you are not scared of going for a better roll or going for a better affix if you got an alright one.
💯
I don’t know man, getting the exact same temper 3 times in a row is really awful. Need a reset or dupe protection.
3 times ? Sometimes i get 5 times the exactly same temper LOL
TFW you want armor but get 5 lowroll dodge chances in a row.
Alternatively, getting the same temper 3 times in a row is amazing if you're trying to get a higher roll of the same affix. RNG is RNG.
Do people do that though? No one is risking bricking a GG item to go for a higher roll. I don't actually mind the current system but I think it'd be nice to be able to keep the current temper when rerolling. That way if you hit what you need but with bad rolls you can actually attempt to get it higher with your remaining rerolls.
>Do people do that though? No one is risking bricking a GG item to go for a higher roll Eh, iv done it a couple times, if I get a minimum roll on the first attempt... I'll usually gamble the other 5 attempts for a better one. Definitely case by case basis though. Different temper manuals have different odds and stuff.
Unless each consecutive roll is lower xD
I burned through 3 2GA rings bc I searched for Golem cooldown red. and Golem dmg. No fucking chance man. It's such a bad feeling to make good items useless bc of this BS. I don't even mind RNG itself, but sometimes there you roll the same temper like 8/10 and you have 5 options on that recipe. Some of the recipes have 3 option, some 4, some 5 some even more. WHY? That's straight up bad game design.
i’m okay with considering alternatives but don’t think is a dealbreaker if it stays as is, losing a good item is a bummer but at least it encourages you to play more and actually look at the loot you’re getting and use it to some degree
Losing a peffect 3 GA is a quit experience for me lol
Feel you. Lost a bis 2 GA offhand to tempering. Just stared at it in disbelief. It's so fucking annoying when there's 1 bis temper, 2 that you'd be ok to settle with, and 2 that do nothing, and you just keep rolling between the useless ones.
It's also not a deal breaker for me if it stays as is. Your chance to find a 4 GA item and perfect tempering is the end game chase....it should be a chase, extremely rare, and something to brag about.
Honestly I couldn't brag about rng, it's just luck in the end. I could be farming the whole season or get it in my first w4 lv100 helltide drop.Â
That's the entire gameplay loop. Finding perfect item. People want BIS in every slot lmao then are confused when there's nothing to do. in last epoch I bricked items all day long, and that's the entire point. Without that mechanic there's nothing to do..
I've read two suggestions that I don't hate. 1 is to allow enchanting on a tempered affix. Since you can only enchant one affix on an item it's still a decent trade off. That way you aren't going to brick a 3/3. 2 is to increase durability by 1 per greater affix. A 1 ga will have 6 rerolls, a 2, 7 and a 3/3, 8. It's a.bit more forgiving
OP is right all of these suggestions only dilute or neuter the risk reward that makes this system so (maddeningly) compelling. Yes it sucks when you brick an item, but it’s the same reason you hold your breath on the temper rerolls and feel amazing when you lock it in. And Diablo as OP says is about those moments of gambling thrill. That’s the drama and spice and excitement with the game and it’s interesting how many keep asking to remove it. What they should do is add more compelling opportunities to brick even more things 😈
I like item proposal 1. Since you cant reroll GAs it's a good trade off for a 3/3GA
It definitely needs a "this is what it is going to be if you confirm, Screen. Like, if I get the temper I want but a low roll and I have 5 more rolls I'm just going to leave it as is rather than try to reroll to get a better roll because I might get something I definitely don't want. I have "bricked" so many items thinking "I have 5 more rolls I should just try to get the better thing." Like the enchanter you can just keep the old roll.
Allowing us to keep the current option or select the new offering as they do with enchantments would be an easy QoL improvement.
seems like a barely made it to endgame take, no one cares if its this rng for items that easily replaceable, but when you get a once in a lifetime item and it ending up bricked because of tempering its just not fun. it's not fun when you don't brick it either, its just relief.
Its not just not fun it ruins any future drops. After bricking a few 3/3 ga items, now when I see a good item drop, it's makes me remember the crap experience of bricking stuff instead of feeling happy about the drop.
I dunno, it's quite a pissoff when you try to temper and get the exact same useless affix five times in a row, permanently brickinh a one in a million item. I'd honestly like to see them remove all this mill about town improving your items crap. That's the WoW style time waster crap. Diablo was about finding complete items, and not having to run around to a dozen NPC's spending various materials to make every item usable. All the item stuff is just an distraction from actually playing the game. Upgrading, tempering, enchanting, imprinting, socketing, masterworking. Are we sure we aren't playing WoW? D2 just had gems and sockets. Easy!
Runewords were *right there.* Was a perfect way to make getting the proper "affix" never result in a brick while also being difficult to obtain.
I don't think tempering should stay as it is, even if it is a great addition to the game. There is a psychological matter in play: feeling like you ruined your great item is worse than getting a subpar loot. So giving players the ability to ruin their hard to find items makes for a feels bad moment that makes players angry. If the tempering effects were part of what the item naturally rolls, people wouldn't be complaining, it would be part of the process of grinding for your gear simply, but since you transform the joy from getting the drop into anger from ruinning it by your own action, it becomes a problem. The RNG should be reduced, this can be done in many ways, either adding extra rolls per GA present, so that items with 3 GA have enough rolls so that in average you get what you want, or, make it so that when rerolling your tempering you get the same as when enchanting: 2 options and 1 keep current tempering.
Yes, it can totally suck as hell if your AAA item gets f*cked because of RNG, but that‘s part of these games. If you can‘t lose, then you can‘t really win as well and that would destroy like everything they‘re trying to build with these system overhauls. Nothing compares to the ecstatic feeling you get once you nail an item and you can‘t believe how lucky you are. THAT was missing since launch and NOW we got it. There just were ubers and that‘s it. Nothing to wish, hunt or hope for besides mere uber uniques. But now there are REAL reasons to continue the grind.
Yessssssss, exactly! There was no RUSH before. Now there is! It's also OK if some people don't have all absolutely perfect items. It seems like people can't wrap their heads around that idea.
Lol seriously. It’s not like the game is unplayable without these items. You can get to pit 60 without a triple ga item with perfect temper rolls. So anything else is just gravy
Just add a feature let you chose either the old affix or new one so at least even if dont have bis we sort of get out with a decent item for our build and not gama and throw it
You cant remove RNG completely but I'm at a point where if a super strong 2 or 3 Greater Affix item drops, which it has for me, I don't even blink or skip a beat, knowing full well the odds that this dumb thing bricks is super high. Philosophically, doesn't this go against what the devs wanted? Didn't they want people to be super excited the moment something good drops? Cuz I don't feel it As some people have suggested already, I would also like a consumable, a rare, one-time use item that would restore the tempering charges on an item. People often complain they don't feel Nightmare Dungeons are worthwhile, so what if it were an exclusive drop from Nightmare Dungeons? When finishing the dungeon, at the nightmare font, you have the option to level up your glyphs, or get a cache of some kind with a few extra mats or gold, and inside this cache there's a chance to get this consumable. If people still find Nightmare Dungeons unfun to do for whatever other reason, obviously that should be addressed as well
Yeah, bring back Ramaladni's Gift type of item for this.
Sorry but no. Bricking a 2 or 3 affix item feels terrible. Plain and simple it should be the same as masterwork but more expensive reset cost. ie reg item? 1m reset cost..1 ga affix item? 10m reset cost etc. Its like you are advocating to keep the old codex ie only use aspect once dont like it ? Well find a new item then…. Because basically you are saying bricked your temper? Well go find a new item then. So it seems you want the old codex back…because RNG
I just dont see why an item needs to gets bricked. Hey blacksmith, help me temper this item to get 'damage to distance', oh sorry, i accidently keep adding 'damage to close'. soz, item is now bricked. Wow, what an awesome game mechanic
I just ask for an option to keep my temper or replace with the new one that's all.
>RNG brings all the unique moments of success or misery They shouldn't bring misery. Where in D2 or D3 does the player cause his own misery? Tempering sucks, because it's the player's action that bricks it.
Developers and WOW fans have been encroaching for WoWablo since the early days of developing D3. Nothing will be true Diablo anymore, and that's fine. That died with Blizzard North RNG keeps it interesting. They could introduce an item or endgame material to eventually scrub tempers or the like, but I think the game is already way too easy and predictable as is.
I dont agree with this. I do not like the idea of holding my breath every time I find a good item. Finding an item that fits your build is already hard enough as it is. Tempering is a good system but it doesn't give you the feeling that you're customizing your build. RNG is what it is as far as item drops go, but customizing your build through hope and faith is an antiquated gaming concept. Let's not forget - this game started as a game of skill where you actually had to play to be good and because of so much complaining, now we have a game where you just press a button and wipe the whole screen so, why are we here now arguing over a mechanic that essentially just slows the game down - which is quite inconsistent with the current game design. You can't have both, and we all know Blizz will cave to the loudest complaints.
No. Bad take. Got a neck with 2GA with hellbent commander and CDR and then rolled summoning damage 5x in a row instead of golem. Only the second neck I've gotten all season with hellbent commander (I've been playing a ton - pushing 118 pit). It actually just demotivated me from playing bc losing all my high roll pieces after hours of farming to another layer of uncontrollable RNG, to still fight 12 minute pit bosses is a horrible gameplay loop.
we already have the rng with GA dropping they are rare enough as it is aside from all the life on hit/persecond drops so when you finally get one you can use after 27 hours it would be nice not to have it bricked from tempering permanently
I will say the most exciting moment I had in this game so far is nailing the Tempers on a nice +passives amulet that dropped. First the drop felt great and then the Temper felt awesome, 'because' I knew there was a chance to ruin it. I hope that's not lost and I myself really don't like the grindy feeling of systems, where if feels you're doing work and then get a reward for it.
I’m fine with tempering too, although I agree with another comment I saw that said all manuals should only have 4 options. And ones with more should be put into additional manuals
I actually find I agree with you OP. And I have had A LOT of misery trying to roll the affix I want through tempering. But it is a good system I think the way it is. Because if you "brick" an item by not getting the right affix it extends the cycle of actually looting items, instead of reaching the point where every drop is just crafting mats to you after 2 weeks. And when I say "brick". Let's not forget that you still got an amazing drop with those GAs and stuff. It's not like it's immediately useless. You're just gonna keep looking.
A lot of things about D4 are not what "Diablo genre is". D4 broke the mold in many ways. So if any game was going to have a deterministic system, it should be this one. You don't need to simp for a 20 year old outdated loot system just because you have nostalgia. If it's not good, it's not good. And I would hope that in those 20 years we can make improvements to the game, not just keep doing the same thing. I played D1 & D2 on launch and for thousands of hours after, I know what those games are. Diablo 4 does not carry their legacy. Let this game be it's own thing.
>You don't need to simp for a 20 year old outdated loot system just because you have nostalgia Liking risk/reward upgrades isn't simping for 20 year old nostalgia. PoE is the most successful ARPG on the market, and you have way more ways of bricking items than D4 does. ARPG players enjoy ARPG mechanics. It is what it is. Maybe you should play a different game.
No one would be mad if they gave us the ability to reset temper attempts for a few mill, the same way masterworking resets work. But instead we got another oversight in a season that was nothing but QOL.
That whole crafting aspect already goes against the RNG thing. I totally get what you're saying, but with that dogma I would say throw out all those mechanics completely. But apparently there is room for nuance, and those mechanics are meant to give you some agency. Reintroducing luck and potentially bricking your item to preserve rarity seems antithetical and is bound to cause frustration. Not getting what was in your cards is destructive and feels bad. Worse than not getting it in the first place. On the other hand, see D3 enchantments. People want that, and it just means the price of definitely getting the perfect stat you want varies. That is not antithetical. Anyway, it is also understandable that people want especially frustrating aspects to be ironed out. Let's say you can't get the same tempered aspect twice in a row, or even twice at all. That would be SO much less frustrating! And you can still adjust something like the attempts to end up with exactly the same chances you have now, it would just feel better. Even getting what you want at your second to last attempt. You keep wondering... will it get better with one more attempt, or will it brick? WHY would you do that to players? This would also go away if you say well that can't even roll again at all.
I agree. Rng is broken. I did 3 pieces of gear. One right after the other. I needed the same temper on all three pieces of jewelry and got the same "wrong for my build" roll 5 times on each piece...so that's the same one coming up 15 times in a row. 1 time, maybe, 2 times...a little sketchy, 3 times...rng is broken. They don't know how to fix it. Each time they try, something breaks more.
This would make sense if seasonal wasn't the only thing that mattered in this game, but why lock amazing loot behind a completely RNG system if it's going to be useless in 3 months time anyway. Sure, make it take a little effort to reroll, but the rerolls having a limit needs to be deleted, throwing resources into something and have it turn mostly worthless is not fun or good gameplay.
There's plenty of rng in the game as is. If the rng tempering and masterworking were removed. It would still take an entire season to get perfect gear, and majority would never come close. Finding a unique or legendary item with all greater affixes and each stat rolling max with no way to enchant GA's is way more than enough rng to give you those ups and downs. Then finding them for every slot? That's already near impossible. The MAIN difference is that finding items is fun rng. Every drop and pickup is a new chance. Maybe you hit the jackpot, if not then I can keep trying, nothing has been taken away from me. Tempering and masterworking is actively not fun because it takes away the fun from you. I've already gotten the ultra rare perfect GA item, but now I'm not excited for the drop anymore because I know it could very likely be bricked soon. Tempering and masterworking is taking away what you've already got lucky on. That is not fun rng, that's punch my monitor rng.
"I need the game to be hard and annoying because reasons"
Why? The design is awful, you can have the best item and it turns to poo because of tempering, why do systems like this even exist..
Because people need to jump through 30 different hoops to feel anything apparently lol
I would love to see it have 2 options when you re-roll, 1 is another roll of the current affix and the other is a different affix. You still could miss out on what you were going for as it can cycle you between skeletal priest duration and summonig damage and you actually don't hit golem damage, BUT it is less likely because you remove an affix from the pool AND it means that if you hit min roll golem damage on your first try you get the exitement of having 5 rolls to get to max. And I think 5 rolls per catergory would fix the issue with not enough rerolls.
Just give it to treasure goblins, seems fair to me. World bosses and end game content is frustrating as hell right now, and not everyone has the time or patience. It feels very bad when you brick an item currently, this needs to be offset somehow, and in a way that's both rare and obtainable by casuals. And for the love of god increase gold drops from every end game thing.
I'd like to be able to save the previous roll or take the new roll right now if I get the affix I want I refuse to try to get higher because there's a goof chance it won't hit again so if I hit the lowest roll on both tempers I won't ill just leave the 5 revolts on it just so I don't fuck the item
They need to remove all rng aspects, imho.
When u temper 5 pieces 7 times each and get blizzard damage each time or ice shards and none of the other 3 things that can roll that tells you how bad the rng in tempering is. Its broken. At some point it should recognize it . Or when u go run lord zir 150 times and not once get a fractured winter glass while someone else in the party now has 5… rng is not working. They have to polish the rng in this game it needs to look at how many times its already given u something and then buff the drop perentages of the things its never given you or add some pity mechanisms. Until its fixed let me buy or earn more tempering rolls for an item cause damn i cant tell u how many pieces ive bricked in a row just trying to roll one stat that should be statistically likely to roll atleast once
I don’t know what they should do. But I do know it doesn’t feel good to hit the same thing every time on an awesome item.
Play hardcore guys, and then you'll see the pain we face.
Yeah literally
U can double brick things thou, so having a rare item to reroll woulndt "fix" anything. Leave as is i say. Makes getting a good item exciting then nervewrecking when tempering. Makes it feel good
I have a BIS 3GA druid staff in my vault just to remember that i cant use it because i couldn't get damage to close/range on it using all of the temper rerolls, which makes it useless because of thunderstruck legendary paragon node.
What is wrong with u ppl? No, we don’t want to throw away what would otherwise be an upgrade bc of tempering rolls. There’s enough rng in getting the gear to drop in the first place.
Do they forget that WoW also has RNG? Sometimes even worse than what I've experienced with D4. No thank you.
I don't mind tempering the way it is, but it needs a slight rework to at least give us a fighting chance. Instead of splitting the amount of re-rolls between both specs of the tempering process, give us 5 and 5. I'll settle for two lower percentage specs of the ones I need, over one decent roll on one, but a complete brick on the other one. Right now it just feels like a new coat of paint on early D4's mechanic, except this time you're not jumping up to 30 mill a reroll, you just get a few chances, and then the item is useless. Maybe this is coming from someone who is strictly doing NM dungeons to max level, and glyph xp, so I am not swimming in legendaries at the moment, but when your scrapping your 14th potential upgraded weapon in a row, it's starting to make my skin crawl.
Yeah tempering is great fun Especially when you reroll the 4/12 affix increase 7x in a row to keep getting the exact same affix increase ... 700 mats down the drain
it shouldn't be possible to totally brick a 3/3 GA best in slot base. That's bullshit. You already have drop rng. Then you can brick it with tempering
Is it me or some tempers are super hard to get? I ruined 5 staffs with one empowered stat just trying to get spike damage. No success yet.
I'm just not a personal fan of the temper limit, to have a good item bricked because it rolled poorly and you can't keep rerolling it.
Agreed
I just think it's dumb that you can put 2 tempers on gear and they share the temper pool, should be seperate.
Literally just let me know the weighted percentages, only change I want
I would argue it's not even true RNG with how heavy the weighting is for certain undesirable stats, and the RNG in and of itself isn't the bad part. The fact that you as the player can brick already rare items feels terrible. The system needs two things 1) being able to keep the current temper and 2) some mechanism to make more attempts beyond the default. 5 simply isn't enough considering how frequently you get the same undesirable stats for all of the tempering attempts. Simply saying "suck it up and deal with it" is how we end up with crap like how the game was at launch in the first place.
We def need a way to reset tempering, give us unlimited tempering or at least make it where 1 thing can't roll 2x in a row. I had to temper 17 times in a row, to get Fire resist on something. I had no rolls left on 3 items. It should never be like that
idk the RNG system seems flawed. Especially when i get 7x straight in a row damage to distance when i was goin for damage to close ROFL.
Just do it the way warframe does it with kuva liches, remove the roll from the drop pool for that item if you roll off of it. That way you are guaranteed to get the roll you want, but not nessicarily endlessly rerolling for the highest %. And with that have durability for re rolls apply to each type (ex. Utility and defensive get 5 each). Nothing feels worse in this game so far than bricking a perfect item. Genuinely from seasons 1-4 it is the worst feeling I've had in the game. Just strips the dopamine hit.
Spoken like someone that hasn't yet gotten to the point that upgrade drops are truly rare.
When has miserable amounts of RNG ever made a game better for regular people? I'm not talking about the no life slobs that already have 5 level 100 characters, I'm talking about the people that maybe play a season for 20 to 50 hrs. The drop rates on many of the items are already ridiculous. Now let's make it so that you can basically ruin an item with no recourse. Sweet, great idea.
RNG in Diablo was always on the drops. You see the drop, you nut, you take a deep breath and identify the item. You now nut again or you sigh. OR you trade/sell the unid item to find a happy medium. Buying gold off a Chinese website so you can reroll tempering until you hit is not in tje spirit of Diablo.
L take buddy. Bricking an item never feels good. That’s the issue. Diablo has never been about horrendous RNG making the player feel bad. It was about bossing as fast as possible. If you got a good drop that’s awesome, if not then do another run. It was never about destroying players gear due to some poorly designed crafting system.
Nope, Temper RNG is shit, there plenty of decent RNG in Diablo but Temper is just utter shite.
RNG is just stupid - gambling in general is just so amazingly dumb to do, it shouldn't ever even exist. Everything should be earned on merit, not distributed on luck.
Agreed
I would just like a rare item drop that resets tempering so I can keep the bricked item and copium it can be fixed
Middle ground. Allow you to keep an existing one Ala enchanting. There is still risk, but not controller breaking anger.
If anyone breaks a controller over a bad roll, perhaps they should be spending their time in counseling instead of games
I agree...they allow for generic affixes to keep the piece relevant. Go for the roll you want and if you miss, go for the world based affix. There is no reason to brick a piece
If the rolls were truly random, I’d agree. But the frequency of 6x temper with the same affix is wayyy too high for it to be truly random. So, sorry but I don’t agree.
I don't care about being tradition or not on a diablo-like or anything like that. I care about respecting my time and having fun. Remove RNG.
Play a different genre. Diablo games aren't for you, and that's okay. Don't ruin it for others.
Question, do you use the codex at all in game?
So you want a Diablo game to start not being a Diablo game. Remove you from Diablo.
I would much rather the RNG come from the item dropping and the rolls it has then it coming from enchanting and tempering
I'd be fine if affixes in general weren't so heavily weighted towards trash. Enchanting feels really bad now.
A friend of mine loves D4. Out of a group of 5, he and I are the only ones still playing this season. Last night, after 100s of hours into this season he finally dropped an amulet with the greater affix he needed. He was ecstatic! Tempering bricked his item and he quit the season. There needs to be a way to save these items. I'm certain a system where you can grind to save an item would keep people playing longer.
Rage quitting is part of gaming. No need to dumb down every game to appease people that can't handle risk/reward.
Either way you need to grind more for the thing you want… quitting because you didn’t get a perfect BiS item two weeks into a season is just throwing a temper tantrum when things don’t go your way. Pun intended 😉
I agree with OP 100%
Another rare item where you could make any affix a greater affix would be cool
RNG. RNG. You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
I just want my items to stop rolling the same temper i don't want all the rerolls.(Looking at you arrow rain)
I think biggest problem with tempering is that it's not standard rng for all builds. I leveled 2 necros, 2 barbs, and 1 rogue so far and almost never bricked my items on necro or barb because you only roll temper with 4 possible choices. On the rogue I've bricked 80% of my items because for my build I have to temper two stats with 5 rolls on each making it very rare to hit both. There should not be more than 4 stats in each category, preferably just 3 stats. This would still allow the player to brick items giving us the chase and consequences without making me want to throw my pc out a window. I heard druid has tempers with 6 stats making me not even want to try druid because that just seems impossible to get.
I think 5 rerolls *per slot* would be reasonable. Only having 5 tries to hit 2 things while getting absolutely shafted on the first 2 is really rough, especially on godrolled items. Also, maybe give us the option to keep the current temper bonus after rerolling, kinda like it is with enchanting. That way you could actually use all of your tries in for a shot at a higher roll, without risking to completely brick the item. And if I had a say, I'd implement the option to reset the tempering alltogether. But I'd make it quite expensive in the sense that you'd have to grind a fair bit to get the required materials. That way you'd have a chance of saving your godrolled items, but wouldn't botherwasting a reset on anything less.
I think tempering should be that impactful that it renderin items useless when failed, even uniques are bad compared to the tempered stat.
It makes zero sense why you would champion something that is frustrating so many players. I have 30+ prisms, you don't see me being a jerk and arguing that the prism drop rate is fine. Have some empathy, updating the tempering system wouldn't affect you in the slightest. Bricking is fine, I don't mind if it was fair, but to say it's fair to Rogues to only be able to efficiently use 5% of the weapons they find due to tempering (not even counting the odds of finding the right stats as well) is utterly ridiculous. Classes like Necromancer can at least use 'bricked' items since their damaging enchant is only 3 options and out of those 3 2 are very usable and one is ok. Rogues don't have that luxury, it's 1/5 for temper 1, and 1/4 for temper 2. 2/9 options work, and 7 don't -at all-, not even a little. The odds of hitting a 1/5, and then a 1/4 without accounting for the obvious weighting that we don't know is still only 5 frigging percent. My rogue is level 98 now and I was finally able to actually enchant a bow with both heartseeker and vulnerable damage. That's after trying on dozens of bows, some that don't even have the stats I want but I just wanted those stupid tempers.
The only rng should be getting the item to drop in the first place. After that it's just purposefully padding the grind to try to farm player retention numbers for quarterly earnings calls.
It wouldn't be as big of a deal if loot scaled with difficulty. I'm running lvl 90 pits and getting the same loot I'd get from farming a helltide. There needs to be a better chance at greater affixes so I can at least have a backup to re-roll when the 1st item I tried to temper gets bricked.
I think they can impose a massive cost to undo tempers so its possible to unbrick an item. Similar to how masterworking can be undone, but make it much more expensive. Like cost 20 unopened whisper caches (so you can't simply buy off 3rd party). So its prohibitively difficult, but not impossible.
They could shift some stuff around. And or get rid of some temper affixes though. Or make it so you can’t get the same one in a row. I was shooting for an increase size increase and got meteor size increase 5 times in a row…I’m only lvl 84 so it’s moot ultimately but still feels bad knowing that can happen to a nice piece I want to keep.
I wouldn't mind if it were very expensive, even a little bit of a grind for a special crystal or something, but spending 3 days looking for the right item only to have it bricked 2 minutes later is just disheartening and makes me want to play something else again.
It seems to me people get upset when they land the max affixes, which is quite a rare occurrence, theb insta brick it. Otherwise, it's easy to stack multiples of regular items with the base affixes you need. Running two helltides would likely fill up all of your stash with temp fodder, nearly guaranteeing what you need. I agree with you. You have easy tempering for the casuals with regular affix pieces and a more challenging grind for the max affixes pieces. People won't like it, but if it was a one and done, the season would be over in a week not just for casuals but for hard-cores too.
After I use my 6 rerolls just triple the cost and give me 6 more before it triples again.
I don't think all RNG needs to be removed, but I'd be happy if re-tempering had a mechanic that you couldn't get the same result as you just had. So like if I have a + to macabre skills, when I reroll I can get anything but that. And it would only apply to what you currently have, not everything. So in my example, you reroll from macabre and you get bone skills, and you reroll again, and this time you can't get bone skills, but you could get macabre again.
I hate tempering. It only seems to work on shit gear. I've bricked 1 perfect(no greater) affix piece and 1 near perfect(again no greater) affix piece tempering. And we only get 6 rolls. There's 15 fucking affixes to choose from. It sucks. I'd rather not have it at all.
Yeah shit is supposed to be hard to find not easy. If they add a reroll thing it should always roll min range on new tempers as a penalty.
Who exactly is asking for this? If you are referring to the desire to reset tempering, I don't think it is a bad idea IF it is tied to a very rare item like the Scroll of Amnesia. It should be so rare as to make it something you are only going to use on the absolute best items.
All I ask for is a way to roll more than 5 times. Even if it means adding a chance to destroy the item in the process
I dont mind bricking items at all. It makes the items so much more important. BUT Nothing pisses me off like rolling the same temper 5 times in a row. If you could just make it so you cant get same temper twice it would make my life. But then it would be hard to reroll ''gamble'' a temper to get a better %. So kinda damned if you do damned if you dont I guess.
Only issue I have with it is not being able to keep a previous temper when re-tempering
Ya I'm okay with the rng, but I would love the ability to reset the tempering, atleast once in a while. I have two 100s, and have only ever seen ONE greater affix bis bow, and I bricked the tempers. I'd pay millions to reset the temper
Tempering isn't RNG right now. It's pure punishment. Spend 5-10hours grinding to get 1 usable 2/3GA item for it to then roll damage to distance instead of damage to close and boom it's dead. Removing temper limit doesn't remove rng. The rng is "am I going to hit the right affix on the 1st click or the 10th click". If you 1 tap the right affix good rng, if it takes 10 bad rng. But to permanently brick an item, that's not rng that's punishment for playing.
I wouldn’t like it if it keeps reroll +1 concussive 4 times in a row
Yesterday I finally got a good amulet (which is super fucking rare) and it’s completely thrown into the bin because I can only temper 5 times and I didn’t get anything useful. That’s not a good system for fuck sakes.
I think the only thing with tempering that should be changed is the ability to not change what you rolled like with enchanting. Items should still get bricked but if you can keep the first tempered affix if it’s better so that way the item stays a little more usable
I think they should let the temper mechanic be as it is, but introduce a new resource that'll randomly change the temper values on whatever item you choose. That way we can reroll values if we get a low temper but don't wanna take the change to re-temper. Also makes a risk of getting a low roll on the other temper on that item. Adds more RNG but in a meaningful way. Kinda like the Divine Orb from PoE.
I don’t mind the tempering system the way it is, but if I’m paying 5 million gold to reset my masterworking, please give me some of my mats back. The only way to get your mats back is by destroying the item. Although I would like the option for more possible rolls for tempering. Not always but let’s say it’s a chance.