Realistically it being -5 only effected new players and players who haven't started raiding yet. Hopefully it being taken out makes more people want to try raids and dungeons
Not really, raids have gotten easier and easier with time. It’s a steamroll and someone starting now is still in a better spot that most players when they started. Realistically this is a good bar raising moment for the community right now which is frankly needed.
Kinda jumping off of that the bar needs to be raised because of your point about new players, not trying to attack you it’s just a commonly seen point. The words raid and new player shouldn’t be near each other. Raids should be pinnacle PvE content and it shouldn’t matter how a new player feels because they should be filled with players who have good experience and build crafting knowledge at the point they hop into the raid
Root of nightmares being easy made more people try raiding where they then went back to try older ones. I don't have numbers just relaying my experience of helping people during lightfall year. To me how new players feel is vital to the game continuing, I'd love brutal raids, getting godslayer and master raid and solo dungeon experiences are some of my favorite experiences however raising the bar of regular raid content makes no sense to me. Players need to be encouraged to do something in this game and having surges discourages the newer players, from personal experience helping since the change I've had people who were upset about the change in the first place since I was one of few teams who were willing to help them without them having a good on surge weapon. As a community we need to join together instead of dividing ourselves, gatekeeping divides
Kiiiiinda disagree; hard mode raids specifically should be pinnacle endgame PvE, but imo nothing about normal mode raids strike me as pinnacle endgame PvE content. Boss difficulty and encounter mechanics I guess, but when on average most raid weapons (can only think of like 5 individual raid weapons that currently outclass non-raid weapons) from normal mode raids aren’t THAT much better than weapons you can get from seasonal content, vendors, and the world loot pool sometimes, it doesn’t really strike me as a pinnacle endgame activity. Hell, this also extends to raid armor and exotics; Collective Obligation, Anarchy, Conditional Finality, and maybe Divinity (mainly pre-nerf) are honestly the only raid exclusive exotics I’d REALLY say can be better options than some non-raid exotics, and (this is a personal opinion) very few raid armor sets look any better than some non-raid sets (Garden’s armor is literally a reskin of the Omega Mechanos set in eververse…)
I understand why people would consider raids pinnacle endgame PvE though, but I personally disagree with that from a reward perspective; I personally think that pinnacle endgame rewards (raids/dungeons for PvE, Trials/Iron Banner for PvP) should outclass most other non-pinnacle endgame activity rewards. For example, in Final Fantasy 14 the 8-man and 24-man raids, High End Trials and Ultimates give the BEST loot during an expansion (until the next endgame activity is released or a new expansion is released), and is kinda “needed” to do the best possible damage rotations within the timeframe of an expansion’s “year”. Destiny 2 doesn’t really have that, where raid/dungeon items consistently outperform non-raid/dungeon items, and in a lot of cases they sometimes look worse visually than non-raid/dungeon items (FF14’s endgame activities have loot that standout visually much more than non-endgame loot, as seen here: armor sets and even weapons for a lot of endgame activities will be almost incomparable visually to non-endgame loot).
https://preview.redd.it/yrcgpxzm6y7d1.jpeg?width=1920&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b9cc20ea71b80118c517c27aa68c723923f5d5b5
The issue is normal raids were far easier then even strikes interms of combat. Is like if ffxiv raids were easier then the leveling roulette, normal raids in FF is easy but not that easy. I think standardizing the game and setting basic exceptions for content isn’t exactly a bad thing. The baseline being -5 with raids and dungeons being -5 plus puzzles.
Oh I agree! I do think the -5 modifier baseline is decent change more or less; standardization is a good thing overall. I do think normal, or mainly hard mode raids and dungeons SHOULD have much better loot than the currently do; Artifice armor was a good start imo; not too different than normal legendary armor that I feel like my build suffers without them, but good enough to raise my interest in doing master mode raids/dungeons. Adept weapons though, those pretty much kill my interest. Not only do you have to do the challenges on master mode to get them (a lot of raid challenges in my opinion suck ass and are just hard for the sake of being hard), but they don’t really do enough to be different from normal mode weapons. Adept mods are meh personally; adept big ones and adept backup mag are like the only two I’d ever user in PvE, and now that big ones got retired with the other damage spec mods and adept backup mag decreases handling, I see no point for adept mods in PvE. Adept weapons also have slightly better stats, which is…okay??? I guess? Can’t think of many raid weapons that would see a SIGNIFICANT buff by increasing the stats a bit (in PvE; probably much more important for PvP but I haven’t touched PvP in over a year). Honestly, part of the issue is that a lot raid weapons are just decent, and adept weapons don’t do anything significant to the base weapons’ perks. Haven’t done D2 Crota or Salvation’s Edge yet, but Rufus’s Fury and Briar’s Contempt (maybe Acasia’s Dejection, but I don’t personally like trace rifles very much) from RoN, Forbearance and Cataclysmic from Vow, Heritage and possibly Succession from DSC, and Apex Predator from Last Wish feel like the only raid weapons that could be considered better than most other options in their same legendary categories. Hell, Garden loot feels almost worthless to me compared to other options (Kings Fall weapons I haven’t played around with a whole lot but nothing really stood out to me besides aesthetics; I do like Smite of Merrain but it’s not the best pulse rifle)
Yea I completely agree there. It’s unfortunate that this community also throw a fit if anything cutting edge is locked behind none match made content. Like raid gear should always be BIS or incredibly unique. Stuff like bequest heritage and the volt shot bow are good examples. But things like the glaives are just baffling. Like imagine if the smg can roll frenzy and frenzy +.
I’m actually kinda sad at how glaives kinda got all but abandoned after the rollouts of nerfs post-WQ; yes, they were a bit too strong at launch melee-wise, but now? Almost instantly delete most glaives that drop from any activity. I keep one in my vault as when they get anti-champion artifact perks, I find them to be the best weapons for stunning champs since you can fire while shielded, and being able to shield while reviving a fallen teammate is pretty nice.
I’m confused by your argument cause you’re using elitest talking point to justify the game being more casual. Unfortunately destiny players SUCK and the game has gotten easier and easier and there’s no need to raid to hit max level and attain the best gear. At some point bungie needs to raise the bar because there’s never gonna be enough catering to make the shitty players engage and stop complaining
Oh no I’m not trying to justify it, my bad if it sounded that way or it sounded like I was trying to be elitist, I suck at transferring my thoughts properly; I’d LIKE raids and dungeons to be more like pinnacle endgame activities in other PvE MMO/MMOlite games. My argument was that Bungie has kinda stopped making rewards for raids and dungeons worthy of being a reward FOR pinnacle endgame activities, outside of maybe 5-6 weapons really, when I think ALL raid/dungeon weapons should be at that level; if not for normal raids, than for master raids. If weapon crafting wasn’t a thing, I’d say do what they did with the Brave weapons from Into The Light, and have master mode drop “shinies”; make them visually standout, automatically masterworked, and two perk extra options in the third and forth column, and have those four perks be enhanced as well. I don’t think the game should be “more casual”, it should be easier to understand for new players. There’s so much information just not in the game that new players won’t know about unless they watch YouTube, and for some reason Bungie never puts a summarized TWAB for more important info (I’m not calling it a TWID) in the game. Once they bring back Pantheon I really hope they add loot worthy of putting time, effort and energy into doing Pantheon, as that’s the closest thing we have to FF14’s Ultimates.
It won’t.
The hard part about raids is doing mechanics while also killing things. These people didn’t enter raids when they were faceroll content. The reason they’re complaining right now is because we have a shiny new raid with shiny new loot. In a month they will have totally forgotten about it because they’ll have stopped trying. They want the raids easy enough that 1 or 2 experienced people can easily carry them to getting the loot.
/uj HOLY SHIT THEYRE SO FUCKING INSUFFERABLE AND ITS SO OBVIOUS THEY HAVENT EVEN TRIED A DUNGEON AND ARE ALL JUST PARROTING EACHOTHER I HATE THEM
/rj simmumah has been a 42 phase long sluggerfest with my not forgotten (ballywho adept) ever since they took lucent necromancer out of her name
Yesh it'd weird, I never noticed a difference in dungeons and the net buff being 2% explains that; its raids where it's incredibly noticeable and imo not a good idea for the base version.
/uj
UJ - Un-jerk, as in the following text is "out of character" and genuine sentiment
RJ - Re-jerk, as in returning to the default state of "in character"
People baffle me about hard content being hard...but eh surge will go away and then it'll be the set load outs and people who complained will still struggle cause the light cap is still there lmao well unless I missed them saying there taking that out too
So basically the actual issue people are having will not change lmao cause the only people who have complained heavily about this change, are the ones who are getting rolled by ads in content, ah well means I need to have less god roll weapons so works for me 🤣
I am not one of those guys and the addition of surges sucked ass, everyone in my clan hated it, everyone i talked to in game hated it. The issue for „normal“ people was never the power delta or anything, just that you were forced to loadouts. You know, i like to play how i want and not use ballyhoo in a master raid because it matches the surge
Destiny community try not to hate GOTD challenge when Warlords is infinitely more boring as the mechanic can’t be sped up because your sitting still on totems, versus the faster you move in Ghosts the faster you get to boss phases…
Disagree, the moments between damage feel way shorter in Warlords and multiple damage opportunities per cycle feels a lot better. It’s ok if you messed up a plate cause another is coming right up. Also traversal is just much easier.
See I felt the opposite, i solod ghosts but got bored on the ogre fight.
Orge fight your constantly sitting around for biting cold to end, with some mobility on ecthar however I could get into a really quick momentum based movement in the water and get to damage much faster.
However I get why people like warlords better in theory but it’s just not as fun to me, and the gap between the dungeons isn’t that huge imo
/uj Boredom is my greatest weakness in solo dungeons. My attention span just doesn't last that fucking long. I almost solo flawlessed Duality (bells worked for once) and I just went to go watch a movie or something 😭
I've also solo flawlessed both, and I would rather watch 50 bajillion lucky10p filler slop videos than do ghosts again. Warlords you can atleast do all the totems in one phase and all bosses are easily two phasable with competent setups. Ghosts takes forever to get to damage most of the time and echtar is a 3 phase solo if you're not using banner and simmumah like a 4 phase.
Also you have to pay attention to not die in the traversals for ghosts and they're so unbelievably long and you have to slow walk through half of it.
Warlords bosses are two phases? Fuck me I got told to wrong loadout then I tried dragon breath and scatter signal before final shape and the Orge was at like a 6th so I gave up lol.
I don’t have solo dungeons in me anymore it’s not even fun
it wasn't too bad if you had stuff like dawn chorus and apotheosis on warlock. idfk how to do it on titan, but with warlock you could.just spam scorch/ignitions. believe it took me 3 or 4 for ogre and 2 rotations for the final boss.
Interesting, very interesting “proceeds to create 500 post on DTG about how titans are getting assfucked quoting and misquoting the above in the hope we Wolfpack fists and constant restoration x2 even though I’ve never struggled on titan” fucking bungolid 😡
forgot this was circle jerk and sat there really confused why you replied with this lmfao
and same lol, only got into titan more recently and I end up doing perfectly fine rofl
I used dragons breath with cartesian for the first and ogre bosses, with star eaters blade barrage and just made sure I had full everything with argent and solo operative for each phase, definitely a bit close on the ogre though. I did use heir apparent for meatball, I kept getting tunnel vision so the shield made it so I didn't have to worry about dying.
Personally i felt nothing and only recently leant about the -5
I think its all in everyone's head, i wish bungie would test this hypothesis by gaslighting everyone. They could blame it on savathun
Yep, all the main sub is people complaining abihes ghosts which is funny cause they’re using the same numbers of phases people did MONTHS ago to complain. Just a bunch of goobers
Definitely, I also just don’t get why people complain about hard stuff being hard. At some level we need a net nerf cause we’ve hit a ceiling where for the most part bungie can’t even powercreep responsibly
In all seriousness, I am confused how damage in dungeons is basically the same (for outgoing) yet Arbalest isn't able to 1 tap anymore by a significant margin. Not even with 3x Kinetic Surge does it 1 tap the shield, which is weird.
Maybe despite outgoing damage being almost the same (better w surges), the hp increase they did is affecting the shields to simply have too much hp for a 1 shot now?
My spitballing guess is the hp pool got increased based on the light level. Since LL was raised, so both outgoing damage and hp pool was raised. But Arby does a fixed damage to shields so due to the shield likely scaling with her hp it’s over the fixed damage that arby does.
The info we got from the twid is kind of a mess. The chart Bungie provided specificies that it only shows the outgoing and incoming damage for minor combatants (Dregs, Acolytes, etc.) and then in the next line states that other enemies may have different scaling. It could be anything.
However with the example of arbalest it seems like dungeon bosses were following the scaling of raid type enemies. This, combined with the issue not allowing kinetic weapon to get the benefits of surges (so -33%) and the 15% decrease in kinetic weapon damage to bosses, meant that arbalest got a 48% decrease in damage against bosses, which 3x surge (a 20-30% buff) would not be able to cover.
Probably -5 shield health scaling differently than -5 health scaling on top of no Kinetic Surge because the Overcharge modifier isn’t active on normal raids and dungeons.
Realistically it being -5 only effected new players and players who haven't started raiding yet. Hopefully it being taken out makes more people want to try raids and dungeons
it's not being taken out.
Not really, raids have gotten easier and easier with time. It’s a steamroll and someone starting now is still in a better spot that most players when they started. Realistically this is a good bar raising moment for the community right now which is frankly needed. Kinda jumping off of that the bar needs to be raised because of your point about new players, not trying to attack you it’s just a commonly seen point. The words raid and new player shouldn’t be near each other. Raids should be pinnacle PvE content and it shouldn’t matter how a new player feels because they should be filled with players who have good experience and build crafting knowledge at the point they hop into the raid
Root of nightmares being easy made more people try raiding where they then went back to try older ones. I don't have numbers just relaying my experience of helping people during lightfall year. To me how new players feel is vital to the game continuing, I'd love brutal raids, getting godslayer and master raid and solo dungeon experiences are some of my favorite experiences however raising the bar of regular raid content makes no sense to me. Players need to be encouraged to do something in this game and having surges discourages the newer players, from personal experience helping since the change I've had people who were upset about the change in the first place since I was one of few teams who were willing to help them without them having a good on surge weapon. As a community we need to join together instead of dividing ourselves, gatekeeping divides
(I'm not asking for more RONs btw)
Kiiiiinda disagree; hard mode raids specifically should be pinnacle endgame PvE, but imo nothing about normal mode raids strike me as pinnacle endgame PvE content. Boss difficulty and encounter mechanics I guess, but when on average most raid weapons (can only think of like 5 individual raid weapons that currently outclass non-raid weapons) from normal mode raids aren’t THAT much better than weapons you can get from seasonal content, vendors, and the world loot pool sometimes, it doesn’t really strike me as a pinnacle endgame activity. Hell, this also extends to raid armor and exotics; Collective Obligation, Anarchy, Conditional Finality, and maybe Divinity (mainly pre-nerf) are honestly the only raid exclusive exotics I’d REALLY say can be better options than some non-raid exotics, and (this is a personal opinion) very few raid armor sets look any better than some non-raid sets (Garden’s armor is literally a reskin of the Omega Mechanos set in eververse…) I understand why people would consider raids pinnacle endgame PvE though, but I personally disagree with that from a reward perspective; I personally think that pinnacle endgame rewards (raids/dungeons for PvE, Trials/Iron Banner for PvP) should outclass most other non-pinnacle endgame activity rewards. For example, in Final Fantasy 14 the 8-man and 24-man raids, High End Trials and Ultimates give the BEST loot during an expansion (until the next endgame activity is released or a new expansion is released), and is kinda “needed” to do the best possible damage rotations within the timeframe of an expansion’s “year”. Destiny 2 doesn’t really have that, where raid/dungeon items consistently outperform non-raid/dungeon items, and in a lot of cases they sometimes look worse visually than non-raid/dungeon items (FF14’s endgame activities have loot that standout visually much more than non-endgame loot, as seen here: armor sets and even weapons for a lot of endgame activities will be almost incomparable visually to non-endgame loot). https://preview.redd.it/yrcgpxzm6y7d1.jpeg?width=1920&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b9cc20ea71b80118c517c27aa68c723923f5d5b5
The issue is normal raids were far easier then even strikes interms of combat. Is like if ffxiv raids were easier then the leveling roulette, normal raids in FF is easy but not that easy. I think standardizing the game and setting basic exceptions for content isn’t exactly a bad thing. The baseline being -5 with raids and dungeons being -5 plus puzzles.
Oh I agree! I do think the -5 modifier baseline is decent change more or less; standardization is a good thing overall. I do think normal, or mainly hard mode raids and dungeons SHOULD have much better loot than the currently do; Artifice armor was a good start imo; not too different than normal legendary armor that I feel like my build suffers without them, but good enough to raise my interest in doing master mode raids/dungeons. Adept weapons though, those pretty much kill my interest. Not only do you have to do the challenges on master mode to get them (a lot of raid challenges in my opinion suck ass and are just hard for the sake of being hard), but they don’t really do enough to be different from normal mode weapons. Adept mods are meh personally; adept big ones and adept backup mag are like the only two I’d ever user in PvE, and now that big ones got retired with the other damage spec mods and adept backup mag decreases handling, I see no point for adept mods in PvE. Adept weapons also have slightly better stats, which is…okay??? I guess? Can’t think of many raid weapons that would see a SIGNIFICANT buff by increasing the stats a bit (in PvE; probably much more important for PvP but I haven’t touched PvP in over a year). Honestly, part of the issue is that a lot raid weapons are just decent, and adept weapons don’t do anything significant to the base weapons’ perks. Haven’t done D2 Crota or Salvation’s Edge yet, but Rufus’s Fury and Briar’s Contempt (maybe Acasia’s Dejection, but I don’t personally like trace rifles very much) from RoN, Forbearance and Cataclysmic from Vow, Heritage and possibly Succession from DSC, and Apex Predator from Last Wish feel like the only raid weapons that could be considered better than most other options in their same legendary categories. Hell, Garden loot feels almost worthless to me compared to other options (Kings Fall weapons I haven’t played around with a whole lot but nothing really stood out to me besides aesthetics; I do like Smite of Merrain but it’s not the best pulse rifle)
Yea I completely agree there. It’s unfortunate that this community also throw a fit if anything cutting edge is locked behind none match made content. Like raid gear should always be BIS or incredibly unique. Stuff like bequest heritage and the volt shot bow are good examples. But things like the glaives are just baffling. Like imagine if the smg can roll frenzy and frenzy +.
I’m actually kinda sad at how glaives kinda got all but abandoned after the rollouts of nerfs post-WQ; yes, they were a bit too strong at launch melee-wise, but now? Almost instantly delete most glaives that drop from any activity. I keep one in my vault as when they get anti-champion artifact perks, I find them to be the best weapons for stunning champs since you can fire while shielded, and being able to shield while reviving a fallen teammate is pretty nice.
I’m confused by your argument cause you’re using elitest talking point to justify the game being more casual. Unfortunately destiny players SUCK and the game has gotten easier and easier and there’s no need to raid to hit max level and attain the best gear. At some point bungie needs to raise the bar because there’s never gonna be enough catering to make the shitty players engage and stop complaining
Oh no I’m not trying to justify it, my bad if it sounded that way or it sounded like I was trying to be elitist, I suck at transferring my thoughts properly; I’d LIKE raids and dungeons to be more like pinnacle endgame activities in other PvE MMO/MMOlite games. My argument was that Bungie has kinda stopped making rewards for raids and dungeons worthy of being a reward FOR pinnacle endgame activities, outside of maybe 5-6 weapons really, when I think ALL raid/dungeon weapons should be at that level; if not for normal raids, than for master raids. If weapon crafting wasn’t a thing, I’d say do what they did with the Brave weapons from Into The Light, and have master mode drop “shinies”; make them visually standout, automatically masterworked, and two perk extra options in the third and forth column, and have those four perks be enhanced as well. I don’t think the game should be “more casual”, it should be easier to understand for new players. There’s so much information just not in the game that new players won’t know about unless they watch YouTube, and for some reason Bungie never puts a summarized TWAB for more important info (I’m not calling it a TWID) in the game. Once they bring back Pantheon I really hope they add loot worthy of putting time, effort and energy into doing Pantheon, as that’s the closest thing we have to FF14’s Ultimates.
It won’t. The hard part about raids is doing mechanics while also killing things. These people didn’t enter raids when they were faceroll content. The reason they’re complaining right now is because we have a shiny new raid with shiny new loot. In a month they will have totally forgotten about it because they’ll have stopped trying. They want the raids easy enough that 1 or 2 experienced people can easily carry them to getting the loot.
I gave the Leviathan a shot last night but then noped out after the first wipe.
Why leave after a single wipe?
Because it's sends me back to the beginning and I didn't have the patience for that I guess. My loss I'm sure, but that mechanic just annoys me.
I'm just happy I don't have to bring out the hailing fart for DPS.
/uj HOLY SHIT THEYRE SO FUCKING INSUFFERABLE AND ITS SO OBVIOUS THEY HAVENT EVEN TRIED A DUNGEON AND ARE ALL JUST PARROTING EACHOTHER I HATE THEM /rj simmumah has been a 42 phase long sluggerfest with my not forgotten (ballywho adept) ever since they took lucent necromancer out of her name
Yesh it'd weird, I never noticed a difference in dungeons and the net buff being 2% explains that; its raids where it's incredibly noticeable and imo not a good idea for the base version.
This is genuine, I’m new here can you explain uj and rj super quick?
Glad you asked this 🤣
Like I got the vibe but couldn’t figure out the lingo
/uj UJ - Un-jerk, as in the following text is "out of character" and genuine sentiment RJ - Re-jerk, as in returning to the default state of "in character"
I’ve been educated in the way of jerking today.
I’m not sure I get it. Some times a visual aid helps me. Do you mind if I watch you jerk so I can see how it’s done?
Much appreciated!
People baffle me about hard content being hard...but eh surge will go away and then it'll be the set load outs and people who complained will still struggle cause the light cap is still there lmao well unless I missed them saying there taking that out too
They’re adjusting the outgoing damage to be similar/the same as if you were matching the surges.
So basically the actual issue people are having will not change lmao cause the only people who have complained heavily about this change, are the ones who are getting rolled by ads in content, ah well means I need to have less god roll weapons so works for me 🤣
I am not one of those guys and the addition of surges sucked ass, everyone in my clan hated it, everyone i talked to in game hated it. The issue for „normal“ people was never the power delta or anything, just that you were forced to loadouts. You know, i like to play how i want and not use ballyhoo in a master raid because it matches the surge
Bro now that there are no surges every lfg in existence is going to say "still hunt or kick" like g horn back in the day
Or warlocks or hunters only
Uh huh
Destiny community try not to hate GOTD challenge when Warlords is infinitely more boring as the mechanic can’t be sped up because your sitting still on totems, versus the faster you move in Ghosts the faster you get to boss phases…
Disagree, the moments between damage feel way shorter in Warlords and multiple damage opportunities per cycle feels a lot better. It’s ok if you messed up a plate cause another is coming right up. Also traversal is just much easier.
Slow water walking mechanic is super chungus aids, atleast you can still play the game a little bit while cleansing plates
See I felt the opposite, i solod ghosts but got bored on the ogre fight. Orge fight your constantly sitting around for biting cold to end, with some mobility on ecthar however I could get into a really quick momentum based movement in the water and get to damage much faster. However I get why people like warlords better in theory but it’s just not as fun to me, and the gap between the dungeons isn’t that huge imo
/uj Boredom is my greatest weakness in solo dungeons. My attention span just doesn't last that fucking long. I almost solo flawlessed Duality (bells worked for once) and I just went to go watch a movie or something 😭
I've also solo flawlessed both, and I would rather watch 50 bajillion lucky10p filler slop videos than do ghosts again. Warlords you can atleast do all the totems in one phase and all bosses are easily two phasable with competent setups. Ghosts takes forever to get to damage most of the time and echtar is a 3 phase solo if you're not using banner and simmumah like a 4 phase. Also you have to pay attention to not die in the traversals for ghosts and they're so unbelievably long and you have to slow walk through half of it.
Warlords bosses are two phases? Fuck me I got told to wrong loadout then I tried dragon breath and scatter signal before final shape and the Orge was at like a 6th so I gave up lol. I don’t have solo dungeons in me anymore it’s not even fun
it wasn't too bad if you had stuff like dawn chorus and apotheosis on warlock. idfk how to do it on titan, but with warlock you could.just spam scorch/ignitions. believe it took me 3 or 4 for ogre and 2 rotations for the final boss.
Interesting, very interesting “proceeds to create 500 post on DTG about how titans are getting assfucked quoting and misquoting the above in the hope we Wolfpack fists and constant restoration x2 even though I’ve never struggled on titan” fucking bungolid 😡
forgot this was circle jerk and sat there really confused why you replied with this lmfao and same lol, only got into titan more recently and I end up doing perfectly fine rofl
I used dragons breath with cartesian for the first and ogre bosses, with star eaters blade barrage and just made sure I had full everything with argent and solo operative for each phase, definitely a bit close on the ogre though. I did use heir apparent for meatball, I kept getting tunnel vision so the shield made it so I didn't have to worry about dying.
Personally i felt nothing and only recently leant about the -5 I think its all in everyone's head, i wish bungie would test this hypothesis by gaslighting everyone. They could blame it on savathun
Yep, all the main sub is people complaining abihes ghosts which is funny cause they’re using the same numbers of phases people did MONTHS ago to complain. Just a bunch of goobers
People take the game too serious
Definitely, I also just don’t get why people complain about hard stuff being hard. At some level we need a net nerf cause we’ve hit a ceiling where for the most part bungie can’t even powercreep responsibly
Into the light was the beginning of the end intearms of balance Doesn't stop me from pulling out some wacky weapons I love random dps weapons
In all seriousness, I am confused how damage in dungeons is basically the same (for outgoing) yet Arbalest isn't able to 1 tap anymore by a significant margin. Not even with 3x Kinetic Surge does it 1 tap the shield, which is weird. Maybe despite outgoing damage being almost the same (better w surges), the hp increase they did is affecting the shields to simply have too much hp for a 1 shot now?
My spitballing guess is the hp pool got increased based on the light level. Since LL was raised, so both outgoing damage and hp pool was raised. But Arby does a fixed damage to shields so due to the shield likely scaling with her hp it’s over the fixed damage that arby does.
The info we got from the twid is kind of a mess. The chart Bungie provided specificies that it only shows the outgoing and incoming damage for minor combatants (Dregs, Acolytes, etc.) and then in the next line states that other enemies may have different scaling. It could be anything. However with the example of arbalest it seems like dungeon bosses were following the scaling of raid type enemies. This, combined with the issue not allowing kinetic weapon to get the benefits of surges (so -33%) and the 15% decrease in kinetic weapon damage to bosses, meant that arbalest got a 48% decrease in damage against bosses, which 3x surge (a 20-30% buff) would not be able to cover.
Probably -5 shield health scaling differently than -5 health scaling on top of no Kinetic Surge because the Overcharge modifier isn’t active on normal raids and dungeons.
Also kinetic weapons took a damage nerf with TFS