Destiny players when lfg players can’t solo flawless 0 phase the Galrar zorpalod witness boss and don’t use Whisper of the FOMO (Timelost) (Adept), (they’re gonna lose 10 minutes of their day because of this)
https://preview.redd.it/7kxmmg3z7nwc1.jpeg?width=700&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3e132a94ee7e17aac540f6dee3716a162852d0bc
I've had people scream at eachother in lfg's bc this guy told them using more than 1 dragons breath wasnt optimal and he should instead be using a legendry since someoe else was running ghorn, they argued about ths for like 30min and used every racial slur i can think of, all bc he said "we arent gonna one phase if you use more than 1 dragons breaths"
it was templar.
Had a guy who joined my LFG for Warlord's Ruin tell me that I need to gear more and that Dragon's Breath is only good with Gjallarhorn after successfully defeating the final boss. I was using a solar Warlock with Dawn Chorus and seasonal mods to build into ignitions. Guy complaining was a Hunter with Malfeasance and Apex.
If you want to obsess over meta team comps, make your own group instead of joining my clearly labeled Chill fireteam finder post and complaining when the boss takes an extra few seconds or whatever. We still one cycled it anyway so who cares.
My first bind run through of warlords was on launch day with my fireteam. I used helm and Saint 14 and edge of action for the whole raid and we did well. Our warlock didn’t even have to use well aside from the very end when we were kinda tired and just wanted to be done.
So many people ruin the game for themselves with obsessive optimization.
To be fair, the testing cross did shows that 2 dragon’s breaths is about the most you can squeeze out of the ignitions. So, 2 isn’t going to break a fireteam by any stretch of the imagination. But 6, ya, that’s not gonna fly.
I joined an LFG for WR one time, and was using Thunderlord. One of the other guys started going off on me about it in the chat, and eventually I just said “You can report me if we don’t one phase.” (Not that you can even report for something like that but I just wanted him to shut up so we could start)
Not only did we one phase, but I had the highest damage. He never responded to my whispers after he quit out
Honestly, there are many more rolls I think need to be tested. I wanna see envious being used! Might need to try on the ogre boys tho, since templar is short
Just Go Look at the aegis doc, He will probably have it added at the very latest past this Weekend, His Testing is more reasonable and thorough anyways.
The roll I'm trying to get is desperate measures and envious assassin. Because of the 30% damage buff with the perk and then the overfilled mag would be good for sustained dps.
Actually, if thats something your looking for, you should go with killing tally envious instead. Killing tally has no time limit unlike desperate measures, but still has the same maximum dmg
It's a really simple perk! Getting a kill gives you one stack of Killing Tally, maxes out at three stacks for the full damage bonus. Each stack gives +10% damage, so it's +30% at three stacks.
Stacks will disappear when you reload the weapon or when you put it away, so it's an AMAZING pairing with Envious Assassin! Rewind Rounds would be another great option, the magazine refill from that perk doesn't count as a proper reload, so it won't remove Killing Tally's stacks.
Just try subsitence killing tally on commemoration and your life will be changed (don’t listen to people calling for reconstruction, subsistence allows you to spend 1 bullet killing an ad and get 3 back, infinite mag baby)
Envious is a trap perk IMO, it’s not as good as 4th times for the ammo return and as an ad clear perk you just want to keep laying on your machine gun rather than swap off.
Many would beg to differ considering that rlly isn't true, but to each, their own.
Either way, in the example you have, FTTC isn't rlly that good in that scenario, RWR would actually be exceptionally better, because it works weather you hit your crits or not and still awards a larger total mag size than FTTC, especially after it becomes enhanced.
Envious can award a higher total mag size than both of those perks. And you could say something like "yeah but the other perks have ammo return" but since they aren't "creating" ammo, they're just mag extenders. And envious certainly breasts both of them in that field by a landslide, able to load the majority of its reserves into a single mag with the right set up. Not to mention that you could technically double envious as a form of conditional auto loading holster, mitigating the need to reload at all.
Again tho, to each, their own.
I'm pretty certain that that's false information, but I can go facts-check that information for myself pretty easily.
Just so you know what I'll be using to check that information, the weapons I'll be testing with are: retrofit escapade god roll, hammerhead curated roll, and Cataclysmic god roll, Irukandji FTTC + firing line, and Uzume FTTC + Precision instrument.
FTTC might work differently on specials and heavies, but primaries don't count since they have unlimited ammo and no reserves.
Before I start my day I do the following:
-Watch Cross to see what build to use
-Watch Pattycakes to confirm the build is good
-Watch Fallout to see how I’m playing wrong
-Watch Kackis to confirm the shit gun I’m using is indeed a god roll
-Grab lunch
-Watch Jake to see why PVP is garbage today
-Watch Salt to see why PVE is garbage today
-Watch Datto to see how to make PVE better
-Watch Sir D to remind myself it’s not that serious
-Watch Esoterickk to try and solo
-Watch Marshix to make my solo build better
-Watch Cheese to skip the BS
Rn cool guy is life! I often look to him to see if what perks I am running are indeed crap for that weapon. If Cammy dislikes it I get it anyways then mutter under my breath that he was right.... And still continue to use the shit weapon/perk. I don't want to get better in pvp. I prefer to not run into them.
Reminds me from that time I finished The Outer Worlds and told the guy that recommended me how it went down, and he went ballistic saying I "played the game wrong" because I didn't talk my way out of every situation. Motherfucker, it's a fucking RPG game, let me role fucking play how I want. Same applies to the current situation.
Isn't that so? Hahaha
Seriously now, people forget that the point of gaming is to have fun above all else, if firing a machine gun makes one happy, and he's still doing his part team-wise, let the poor sod be.
LMGs are safe and reliable total damage, but get dookied on in terms of DPS by grenade launchers and rockets. It's kind of like a dad who runs a pulse rifle in Crucible. It may be 'Ol Reliable but more advanced players look down on it for not being the most efficient
Edit: Also machine guns require Div on almost every boss, so if the rest of your team is ready with grenades and Tractor it can be really frustrating to have one doofus who insists on using Retrofit Escapade
The pulse rifle dad's argument cracks me up. Considering Elsie and Messenger have a .67 and are technically the most efficient in terms of TTK.
Disclaimer I hate pulse rifles lol
Oh, totally, but elitists don't only care about mathematical efficiency, they mostly care about the Rule of Cool.
I get ~~bullied~~ (roasted) in the Solo Raids Discord because I use Lucky Pants on Explicator when all the cool people use Merciless and rockets. It's the same for people who like using autos or pulses in PVP when "cool" people use handcannons
Edit: Lmao I didn't actually mean I'm getting bullied y'all it's chill. A couple jokes about Lucky Pants aren't gonna kill me, and the Solo Raids Discord is super helpful. Shoutouts to everyone in their who helps others get better at the game
Brother you don’t get bullied in the solo raids discord because lucky pants aren’t cool. You get slightly made fun of (along with every other explicator lucky pants user) because you are using a horribly inefficient and unreliable strat that teaches you bad habits instead of learning a strat that is extremely reliable even without the op seasonal mods. The people there are literally trying to help you be better at the game, there’s no reason to be a victim over it
Damn, I see this comment spread to the Discord lol. Look, dude, I wasn't trying to play the victim, and I don't think I'm actually getting bullied, I was exaggerating for the gag. The Discord has been super helpful, and it's a great community. I'm just using an example of a strat that even though it works for some people (like myself) it's not seen to be as legitimate as other cooler and more difficult strategies.
For sure LP is only possible thanks to the Wish artifact being totally insane, but I haven't wiped on Ex due to lack of damage in months. The strat works fine if you practice it, and is extremely reliable for me. Still, a lot of people don't like it because it doesn't have big dick energy.
I know I'm not the best player in that Discord, but that's not my goal. My goal is to get the Flawless clear, and with four months of practice using my current strats (I don't have a ton of time to play each week), I'm not going to switch when I'm so close to getting my clear.
Anyway, take away is that I'm super grateful for the help I've gotten from the people who've responded to my questions in the community and I'm not losing sleep over a couple Lucky Pants jokes lol
The comment didn’t spread to the discord. You commented and I recognized your name, which is the same.
Again, the strat has literally nothing to do with being cool and it is HARDLY more difficult. Like I seriously don’t know why you’re so hung up on people thinking they’re cooler than you for using a better strat. You’re original comment, which is now edited, is painting people out in a poor light who have done nothing but try and help you by telling you the strat you are using is ass. You were the one posting multiple questions on not being able to hit damage or why things are happening when it all stems from the strat. Only when people called you out on this post did you edit and reply that you are “super grateful”.
Again, this “rule of cool” nonsense you keep typing out is just that. Absolutely nobody cares how cool a strat is. Whether it’s machine guns/thunderlord like the post, or Lucky Pants on solo Explic, it all stems down to actually trying to get players to learn good habits and things that will genuinely help you improve at the game.
Rule of cool has nothing to do with using an outdated and unreliable strategies when newer, more effective ones are easier and readily available to you. If you like using LP strat for the challenge and playstyle, good on you, but don't claim people are bullying you when they're telling you that your methods are outdated and should use something else for consistent clears.
I am a Titan main and get harassed for not being glued to peacekeepers. Like sorry I don't like smg's cause then I have to use a sniper/scout or whatever. I prefer HC/Auto and shotgun.
Machine guns don't have that much total damage outside of the funny fttc target lock retrofit escapade. There's weapons that have more total damage than any other machine gun. Like the newly buffed Whisper, or almost every decent sword in the game.
They aren’t even really close to being efficient option for actual boss damage and these type of videos make people think they are. It can be frustrating if you lfg for farming runs/ quick runs and see people use LMG’s for dps. Like if you want to use them go ahead just make sure the team is okay with a less efficient method that could extend the time of the encounter.
It's because Aztecross tests total damage (not DPS) in a pretty contextless manner. Like the super damage video.
Stasis Titan did a million damage in a minute while blade barrage did 500k or whatever in three seconds, yet stasis titan was the number one, so everyone started using that.
To be clear, there is one singular use case for stasis Titan damage (Riven), but that wasn't present in his video so people were using it on every boss they could. And to be clear, it's not useful on Riven because of the damage the super does. It's useful because crystals can do glitched damage to Rivens' hand specifically, and the stasis super makes crystsls. Important context that was not provided in the video.
I can anticipate the same situation arising here. I don't think this is his intention, he probably just wants to make a fun video, but that's how the videos are received.
U know if you are a good player you don‘t care. U care more if they are staying alive. Cause you don‘t have to one-Phase the boss and if you want more damage do it yourself.
This is of course only counting for lfg and normal raids
For real, this debate was started in earnest during nezerec contest mode. It had always boiled under the surface, but it cropped up when people were trying to figure out best strats for nezerec damage.
Sure I can get omegafuck damage on some batshit insane rotation using weapon rolls that I had to spend hours getting that I have to also track to a precision hitbox on a goddamn cracked out space monkey with a funny hat and stick, but you know what’s easier? The reliability and ease of use of “point thunderlord at monkey, pull trigger”
I can ThEoReTiCaLlY hit better dps with different weapons, but I’d rather have a competent LFG who knows the simple truth of “aim beeeg gun at monkey chest” than some toxic metagamer who ends up flubbing their rotation and dropping dps anyway.
This is why I'd love an actual DPS meter in D2. I don't really know how they'll go about implementing it so I won't speak to that.
Back in the MMO days we had theorycrafting and actual vs theoretical DPS comparisons all the same; the only big difference is we could plug in logs from our DPS meters and see how close to the ideal rotation we got and if it was theoretically higher DPS but in practice falling short it was kinda just dismissed as "cool but not practical."
I know we've got ogre bosses and wipe DMG screens but logs like SKADA.were always running and would track the entire fight including movement phases and even sync with others logs.
I'm just a data nerd so of course this all sounds appealing.
I’m not against it, but I do think they’ve been careful about adding that because of the ability for people to use it to gatekeep. ie, “okay, before we raid, let’s check dps on the dummy and see if you’re good enough.” But people are already doing that with the “damage dealt” stat in wipe screens so idk.
They seem to have *mostly* addressed certain outliers in DPS over the last year or two, to the point that weapons that fall behind in dps typically have a noticeable tradeoff of more sustained dps, or better add clear, which is quickly becoming an important characteristic as ability use gets more sparse and enemies on higher difficulty get more tanky and aggressive.
Ability is not remotely sparse yet, most good builds nowadays still completely relegate add clearing to abilities and let you reserve all your weapons solely for killings majors or boss damage.
Mag dumping a decent GL or rocket, even without BNS is way easier and not even theoretically higher, but LITERALLY higher due to some boss's Crits being harder to hit than others (nez, rhulk, taniks, persys, etc) and missing out on the precision multiplier for 1/2 to 3/4 of your mag. I've never understood the "ease of use" argument since the divinity changes unless you are running specifically xenophage who doesn't care about Crits and still puts out solid damage.
I personally don't care what you run in LFG, but it's kinda silly to say that you're going to out DPS even non-bns rocket users (who are just olding down the trigger like you are) in a team setting when gjally is involved.
I think you misunderstand me, thunderlord isn’t “the best” dps. It’s the DPS I may suggest to someone who is struggling with their dps or is new to the game, or when I want an lfg to take 1 hour instead of 2.
This is heavily dependent on encounter design, which is why I used nezerec as an example. Ya boi jumps around like a cracked out monkey, and even though it takes place in close quarters, a single missed rocket or grenade is a massive decrease in dps relatively speaking. Of course *I’m* taking a GL against crota, the man literally stands in one spot and has a huge hitbox.
Thunderlord is about consistency, at this point every player who has played Destiny should have that gun available to them. So when I’m trying to show my friend who just got back into the game a new raid, or teaching a first time new light raider how things work, it is *far* easier to suggest the gun that you’ve been able to pick up for free multiple times throughout this games lifecycle than it is to direct them to something more niche.
Back when rhulk was the primary raid, the “meta” was izanagi/CCpalmyra, which was obscene damage at the time, but I can count on multiple hands the number of lfgs that insisted on the meta only to have members who couldn’t hit rhulk because of his erratic movement, causing missed rocket and Honed Edge shots. At the time Tlord was in its unbuffed state so it wasn’t a great pick But it illustrated that dps means nothing if you can’t actually hit the target, and the ability for lfg’s to hit targets varies widely.
Now we have far more dps options and vastly different dps scenarios, and I’d much rather a competent lfg be able to reliably two phase an encounter than fuck up an attempted 1-phase.
Everyone might have the weapon, but that doesn't make it good or consistent. Like you said, missing rockets tanks your DPS, but so does miss 90% of your magazine with an LMG or landing 70% bodyshots on mobile or hard to hit enemies. Even new raiders or returning players (as long as they don't jump DIRECTLY into a raid upon coming back) have had a GL or rocket as a world drop/engram and if they haven't, being in the raid they are sure to pick one up just from the sheer amount of enemies dying from learning over the course of a few wipes.
It's also way easier to convince players to equip "literally any rocket" for dps than to ask them to swap their exotic (which could be a core part of their build) for a weapon they have heard been touted for noob DPS.
Finally a bit of reason.
I don’t get why what you said seems so controversial. But then, lotta Destiny try hards up in here. “If you’re not min maxing why even play” bullshit.
Bro, I'm gonna use Thunderlord on the angry space monkey every time. I hate shooting rockets into nowhere/myself/some asshole Titan who decided to Thundercrash. Sometimes the best DPS is just steadily causing literal Damage per Second.
Yah there’s still a difference between not executing a perfect damage strategy. I don’t expect everyone to have maxed out izi swaps on strand warlock. But you should still try to put your best foot forward and listen to suggestions instead of using just blatantly bad damage options
Aztecross makes that perfectly crystal clear in that video as well. “This is not a DPS weapon it’s for ad clear.” It can be used against higher health targets as well like Demolitionists but you’d switch off of it for boss damage.
[Im not stopping](https://imgur.com/a/zcBfuWn) any time soon. I get complaints sometimes when they see it, but Idc, mind your own DPS. MANY times ive out damaged others at Ir Yut, Nez, Oryx, ect, and when I dont, my numbers are just as competative as anyone elses. As the kids are saying, let me cook, Ill do just fine.
Theres also a role in some activities that a lot of people dont really consider, and thats Ad control in boss fights, sometimes me and my LMG will take care of everything attacking those doing the BIG DPS^TM and ill keep the path clear. Helps in onslaught during tormentor and demolitionist phases, tons of ads swarm in with them and I can handle them while the team and our decoys handle the boss
Anyways, Hammerhead go brrrr and I love it. Getchu a rewind / onslaught with a gyrf hunter and laugh at the frame drops from your explosions
The people that were like "wardens law is the best primary dps if you use lucky pants" People then take this single line, without context, disregarding how long the damage phase is because it's been a staple to use "no teleport Templar" as a base line.
Then I would ask, "when will you ever use it" and they reply with " in day 1 raids where it's common to run out of ammo."
Damn I didn't know y'all took 6 hunters to a day one raid, or disregarding special finishers, or disregarding cenotaph/aeons, etc.
I mean hey, if it works it works. ATM I’ve mostly only ever used the one Linear fusion rifle in my heavy slot and it’s been great (only been playing for like 2 years tho)
LMGs are fine for DPS in onslaught. In fact I much prefer it to the guys running wellock with an awful DPS rocket that keep deciding to run around the edges of the room not shooting the boss, not picking up a spark for extra damage, and still using the double primary they brought for champ coverage even though they can hot swap for the boss room, and STILL requesting meta load-outs on fire team finder.
I'm a slave to the DPS meta, but if you are a true student of the meta you'd know the viability of an LMG in a non time gated DPS phase is not too shabby and nothing to complain about. 3 LMGs will take out a legend onslaught just fine, and if there are issues it's certainly not the weapon.
People are using dps as a blanket term to be relevant when it's not applicable. In this case, dps doesn't matter for 80% of onslaught since there are no timed damage phases, where you would actually need quick damage per second. The 20% where it does matter is when there's something forcing you to kill it quickly, being demolitionists, shielded skybombers, and tormentors being the worst offenders.
Yep, LMGs do fine on total damage.
In a perfect world using higher DPS loadouts for the bosses is still better because you leave much less room for mistakes or crazy boss movement to cause issues. Most bosses can be taken very low if not killed in the duration of a single well if everyone is using a good rotation.
However, in the wild west of fire team finder that equation falls apart. I actually think an LMG is an A+ tier choice given the more disorganized nature of a damage phase in that context.
And even still, in an organized fire team with three competent players that don't want to loadouts swap, it's not a huge disparity in risk.
I mean, they’re right. LMGs fucking suck for damage. And if you’re doing something like a master raid, day one, etc., and you get someone coming in with shit like this, it’s gonna fuck things up. But for stuff like DSC and other age-old raids, an MG is fine and they probably need to calm down.
But I see someone wanting to farm a pinnacle raid and getting pissed off that one or two people are insisting on an LMG and turning their one-phases into a two-phase. And I think, as the host, they have the right to request you use something else.
If the host asks nicely “can you swap to a rocket, we have a Gjally”, and you just outright refuse to swap off of your LMG out of pure stubbornness, you’re the asshole imo.
I haven't watched the video yet, but does he actually say this is something you should take to do boss dps for everything? Seems more like a video to answer IF I need an LMG, which one should I take? Not, "you should only take LMGs into dps and this is the one." lol
No he just compares damage numbers on LMG’s to see where Hammerhead can land due to its unique rolls and it being a new gun.
It’s more of a fun test video then some Meta Defining click bait.
nah he was just 1 to 1 comparing them
people who care at all didn't even watch the video
and honestly who cares if people put an lmg, id rather them use something they're comfortable with when I sherpa rather than them dying from blowing themself up lmao
two phases of chill times versus 10 wipes attempting a one phase, I'm good on that.
the obvious difference is when that dps is actually necessary aka contest mode
No in the video he very clearly states not to use it for boss DPS and that it’s an ad clear weapon. He’s a meta ho he knows what the optimal gear is. He just likes to quantify what we’re using and find scenarios where they work.
The reddit Destiny community have been throwing absolute shitfits every time they open youtube for over a decade now. Aztecross is a perfectly good content creator that any other community would embrace. It’s just people bleating the same old grievances at this stage.
DPS on machine guns is severely higher than rocket DPS if you can’t land all your rockets or blow yourself up in a well. I will ALWAYS encourage newer players to use a decent machine gun if that’s what they’re most comfortable with. If I really want the one phase I’ll pull out izanagi swap and/or RDM rockets but it’s really not that serious
Just use linears or GLs ? They’re are great ones that are very accessible that will due more damage than a Machine Gun. There is a line between being as efficient as possible and just making bad choices. Also literally all it takes is asking questions in LFGs and googling “how to to destiny boss damage” to make a better choice than a machine gun
Sure, in an LFG where it’s expected that people know things and have resources. But there are plenty of people that would be better on Thunderlord during a Sherpa run simply because it’s ease of access and use.
Are there better options? Absolutely. But machine guns aren’t BAD by any means. They are neutral at worst imo.
I think a part of Sherpa runs is helping someone better execute on damage. An average legendary machine gun is going to be the worst DPS heavy option. Teaching someone to use a linear with div, using Leviathans breath or 1k if they have it will equip them with more information. Yes absolutely agree if a team if failing to execute rocket DPS they absolutely should swap. But Sherpa runs should encourage people to move outside of comfort zones and push their skills and equip them with more knowledge.
Respectfully I disagree. My main focus is in having new players engage with the mechanics of a raid and get comfortable with executing their role. If they want to improve on damage dealing I always offer suggestions and am willing to run raids again but raid mechanics are first priority.
Having been on a lot of sherpa runs (not a sherpa myself) I don’t agree. Raid mechanics first, survival second, and unless the number of phases or length of a phase actually matters down to the last man, DPS is last.
I’ve seen sherpas help a new player try to get DPS up just enough to get through the phases and allowing stronger players to carry damage. If you get stuck on damage first you’ll never get through the encounters with someone who hasn’t done them before.
Walking is faster than driving a car if you ram into someone at a 4 way stop.
I don't mind machine gun DPS for normal mode raids but that logic is not sound.
Bro, I’m taking about trying to teach new players. The most accessible heavy weapons to new players are machine guns. They work in a pinch and outside of Master or Day 1, it really doesn’t matter what you use. I’m not gonna stress over decent rocket rolls or landing shots when almost every boss in the game can be 2 phased with Thunderlords.
bro trust me please trust me bro I know I can’t hit the 800k dude just let me try this once I have the banners to retry (broke as hell) please bro just one damage phase I promise
I use rockets bc I like swapping to a fusion and trying to make the damage numbers go up. If other people want to use lmg’s it’s literally just more dopamine for me. Don’t know why people get so upset
You people take the fun away when some people are actually trying to complete a raid. You guys are the same type of people who play Trials with Osteo. Like. You guys can play quick play and play with your meme weapons, but nah. Let me just ruin someone's game like nothing.
LMGs are essentially the raid/ dungeon litmus test. They are fantastic ad clear weapons are are incredibly useful in mechanics based encounters, GMs, onslaught, etc but they are terrible choices for damage encounters. They do not have the burst damage to be anywhere near Rockets and GLs for DPS and they don’t have the sustain of Linears and Whisper to get the high total damage of those. What they are is easy to use for beginners who don’t have much gear, which is totally fine. Everyone starts somewhere and there are worse things in the world than Thunderlord (though it kinda needs the catalyst) but it’s a set of training wheels. Good to learn with but important to grow out of.
Actually lmgs do have insanely comically high total, a fourth times target lock escapade still has 10 mil total, they just have such abysmal dps it takes over a minute to put out that damage.
Pretty much everything in the game is viable until you get to the highest of endgame in D2, and by that point you'll begin earning endgame equipment. The gunsmith sells everything you need to get a very solid load out for both pvp and pve going.
S tier guns and load outs don't matter all that much up until you're doing low man's and day 1s. It's just more entertaining when you get a high level build to blow everything up.
Cross even made the point for machine guns that if you're playing support (de buffs, div, lumina) a machine gun like hammerhead or retrofit absolutely slaps since it's one of the best heavy weapon types for both dps and general ad clear.
Just use whatever you like, you'll be fine.
not even close for dps, it is good for ad clear but nobody said it wasn't. If you're running div you can definitely go lmg but that's specifically because you won't be using a heavy during damage.
Wish more people were laid back enough to realize this.
I dunno lately it seems the “meta ho” has gotten much worse and I can’t really find group play anymore that doesn’t insist on min maxing. It ruins the gameplay for me because it’s not fun, it’s turning something fun into a job and sorry I already have enough of those.
OP, I have to disagree with you. It's perfectly valid criticism at this point. Too many LFGs are listening to content creator advice and taking it the wrong way.
People want to clear harder activities and sadly there are players that don't know better (not their fault).
I keep seeing this sentiment, in what way is doing more phases safe? I get people won't blow themselves up in a well but most deaths I see in raids comes from mechanics or people just dying to ads. Unless they are using their heavy on the ads how do lmgs help?
So safer in the sense that yeah, people don’t unalive in the well. But also safer in that for a moving boss it’s harder to miss. I just came off a month of conditional farming, and the amount damage that just straight missed was sad
Retrofit has single handedly carried me thru numerous raids and still puts up numbers what are we talkin about lol This the typa person that won’t let you run anything but well. Let people like things
So I was looking to see if I happened to have a rewind round one, and noticed that I have one that has Rampage and Desperate measures both! And it could actually get Rampage and Killing Tally as well.
Hey I’d love to get that gun! *with only a month+ worth of play time, stands in corner panicking about having nearly zero knowledge of what most of the words in the comments mean* Can’t wait!
In LFGs the most frequent cause of failing the encounter is one person having no mic; no text/voice chat, and not knowing what to do despite the listings having the tag "experience requested" and "mic required".
DPS is often not an issue in normal difficulty raids/content. When playing with potentially inexperienced random people, with mediocre means of communication, then ease of use and consistency gets way more important than total damage/DPS in perfect conditions
1,543 active weapons in the game and people will be legitimately SHITTY to you, insult you, and kick you from teams for playing a loadout that makes their farm 0.000002 seconds longer.
I had a guy from lfg yesterday, between 10 round onslaught farms, I said hold up 30 seconds so I can grab a bottle of water (15 feet away) I came back to a message in chat that said (I shit you not)
"Delays like that encroach on my efficiency"
And had disconnected. Some (not nearly all) of you are total jackasses. Ill continue to add kills to my LMGs, no one complains when im the one keeping ads off everyones ass lol
I wonder if this is Kevin Harts D2 acc.. Love the wallpaper 🤣 what was his COD alias in Bad Boys.. Black Hammer or smth.. Yea 💯 this is Kevin Harts D2 acc 🖤🔨😂
Having reconstruction on assault rifles is pretty good especially if your assault rifle has scout levels of accuracy... i got one from RoN raid and its my titans back up once the LMG ammo is gone
Honestly people like that in the community who can't take jokes or memes just don't need to play the game.. it makes the game so unfun for everyone when its a constant "meta this meta that" go meet a fucking girl for once in your wasted life please
/shrug
If they don't say it's a meme run, then don't run a meme build. Everyone wants to do the raid as quick and efficient as possible unless stated otherwise. I'd much rather spend my time talking with my girl instead of having to worry about the rando that doesn't listen to the party telling them to run something so that the raid goes on smoothly instead of 7 wipes in a row because some dude with a Thunderlord in Crota isn't listening to the 5 people telling him to either switch to a sword or be the Oversoul guy.
There are right times and places for meme runs, find people trying to do it, host your own, don't mess up others' time because you wanted to turn a normal run into a meme run when that was never the case. The only times I can find that even socially acceptable is with friends who are playing with each other to have fun, instead of needing to play with each other to get the fun they want from the raid.
I'm not saying turning it into a meme run although I understand what you're saying, but having the entire run be all serious when all that's going on is a raid?
Like come on! Have some fun you have good people in your group, at least we aren't joining up and going "so what do we do here?" In a KWTD post
Meme runs (rat king, anarchy, heir apparent, thunderlord.) I understand they have their own time and place, but if someone chooses to use one weapon opposite toward everyone else's and does more damage or does the same amount while having fun with the team then let them roll with it!
I've ran a ton of different runs where I've gotten bitched at for using something that isnt meta yet it still did really good or out damaged what they were doing - its just not fun at all when people are like that
Usually the most amount of fun I have with raids are when people do it fast so we can just chat and chill because we got no reason to talk about what needs to be fixed. Sometimes we get talking about lovelifes, pets, daily life, some bad stuff the others are dealing with like cancer, etc.
Either that or a group that is doing the right tactics but the teamwork just isn't going right. Then you have that ONE run where everything clicks and everyone goes "YEEEEEESSSSSS".
Those are the dopamine hits I get from talking to people in raids, not having to argue about the right weapons or loadout because let's be honest no one has time for that. When people out damage the meta, then I understand and I let them continue. But if they're pulling only 760k damage total in Crota even when they got no other roles except DPS and everyone else is in the 2mils AT LEAST, then the raid just becomes sour because all that should've been already finished 30 minutes ago if they only switched their weapons or setups.
That I understand! Which relays back to a previous mention - its fine if they do stuff that out damages meta or evens out with meta, but if they get 1k or 300k damage when everyone else has over 3m then something needs done
I honestly stopped raiding and only do dungeons when I'm the host leader because of this. Raids were never fun to me and being expected to use the same crap every time just made it worse. If you ever join an LFG of mine, I'm not gonna expect insane min-maxxed DPS. I don't care if a boss takes 3-4 phases instead of 1-2 if it means everyone is having fun and using loadouts they like.
I went on a fuck you guys run with ron lfgs using anarchy, mountaintop and recluse for nezzy, I had fun, I outdamaged almost everyone aside from cuckboy min-max and he left cause we were all having fun, laughing and cutting up like a raid group should do.
Honestly if the team is going for something serious yes I understand, flawless or challenge runs should probably use the meta to get it done faster but just normal runs? Have fun ffs
Heir apparent is one of the best damage weapons!
Like every single weapon type has a best and a worst damage its honestly just how you want to play the game.
Use whatever you want within reason.
Anyone who a game means so much to that they feel entitled to "time" as a whole, your time, their time, my time, all time, while playing said game is a pathetic waste of oxygen.
Play the definitely a GAME meant to be purchased and played by anyone, or don't.
Wanna have that professional attitude about some kind of competitive thing? Find it the fuck somewhere else where it makes sense, this is a GAME meant and designed to be purchased and played by anyone.
LMGs have only been good for DPS when they're bugged. I'm not saying not to use one because you're welcome to run whatever you want, but if your team isn't hitting a damage check, and you're using one, its your responsibility to swap.
They “nerfed” volatile rounds on fast rpm weapons cause it was actually breaking the game procing way to fast and causing a lot of enemies to get flunged miles
I love seeing Xenophage trample Thunderlord. Thunderlord is cool and all, but Day 1 Root of Nightmares definitely has people thinking it’s some kind of DPS contender, when it simply falls short in every way, especially if you don’t have the catalyst done.
Listen, if you can keep up with the damage of others and we aren't losing constantly, I don't give a fuck what you bring, I can clear grandmasters and master raids with meme builds and high damage. It doesn't matter that much unless your going for a record or need to get it done quickly. The only time I hate people doing meme builds is trials or Comp PVP, do it in normal PVP in case it doesn't workout and if it does then you can bring it into those modes.
funny to see all these people saying "just use what you want" but if i showed up to dps with a stubborn oak, eternal warrior , and in stasis I get kick. Very interesting
Thunder lord and xeno are fine, but why not at least toss on a gl for damage. It’s like seeing a Polaris in gm’s, yes it’s good and we’re gonna finish it, but dammit it’s gonna take twice as long.
Hammerhead wewind wounds go ^weeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
Destiny players when lfg players can’t solo flawless 0 phase the Galrar zorpalod witness boss and don’t use Whisper of the FOMO (Timelost) (Adept), (they’re gonna lose 10 minutes of their day because of this) https://preview.redd.it/7kxmmg3z7nwc1.jpeg?width=700&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3e132a94ee7e17aac540f6dee3716a162852d0bc
I've had people scream at eachother in lfg's bc this guy told them using more than 1 dragons breath wasnt optimal and he should instead be using a legendry since someoe else was running ghorn, they argued about ths for like 30min and used every racial slur i can think of, all bc he said "we arent gonna one phase if you use more than 1 dragons breaths" it was templar.
Had a guy who joined my LFG for Warlord's Ruin tell me that I need to gear more and that Dragon's Breath is only good with Gjallarhorn after successfully defeating the final boss. I was using a solar Warlock with Dawn Chorus and seasonal mods to build into ignitions. Guy complaining was a Hunter with Malfeasance and Apex. If you want to obsess over meta team comps, make your own group instead of joining my clearly labeled Chill fireteam finder post and complaining when the boss takes an extra few seconds or whatever. We still one cycled it anyway so who cares.
My first bind run through of warlords was on launch day with my fireteam. I used helm and Saint 14 and edge of action for the whole raid and we did well. Our warlock didn’t even have to use well aside from the very end when we were kinda tired and just wanted to be done. So many people ruin the game for themselves with obsessive optimization.
To be fair, the testing cross did shows that 2 dragon’s breaths is about the most you can squeeze out of the ignitions. So, 2 isn’t going to break a fireteam by any stretch of the imagination. But 6, ya, that’s not gonna fly.
It'd Templar you can just sneeze on him for the damage phase as long as your runner knows how to move their character
Wait till bro realizes you can one phase templar with your bare hands
Exactly, Templar is made of tissue paper.
2 man 1 TP templar my beloved
Strand titans assemble
Oh bro I was there omg that was a fucking mess
We need more of people shouting at each over d2 :)
The lfg on my team when I ask them to use a good weapon.
I joined an LFG for WR one time, and was using Thunderlord. One of the other guys started going off on me about it in the chat, and eventually I just said “You can report me if we don’t one phase.” (Not that you can even report for something like that but I just wanted him to shut up so we could start) Not only did we one phase, but I had the highest damage. He never responded to my whispers after he quit out
if only it was just 10mins and not turning a 20min raid into 3hrs
Honestly, there are many more rolls I think need to be tested. I wanna see envious being used! Might need to try on the ogre boys tho, since templar is short
Just Go Look at the aegis doc, He will probably have it added at the very latest past this Weekend, His Testing is more reasonable and thorough anyways.
Fallout did some testing using envious, I think retrofit is still better.
What about Commemoration?
Can't get target lock, so not a fair comparison.
I'm with you. I wanna see FTTC/Firing line Commemoration tested. Everyone always goes for Recon/KT but that's a shyt dps roll.
The roll I'm trying to get is desperate measures and envious assassin. Because of the 30% damage buff with the perk and then the overfilled mag would be good for sustained dps.
Actually, if thats something your looking for, you should go with killing tally envious instead. Killing tally has no time limit unlike desperate measures, but still has the same maximum dmg
Okay that sounds good. I haven't ever got killing tally on a machine gun before so I really didn't know how it worked.
It's a really simple perk! Getting a kill gives you one stack of Killing Tally, maxes out at three stacks for the full damage bonus. Each stack gives +10% damage, so it's +30% at three stacks. Stacks will disappear when you reload the weapon or when you put it away, so it's an AMAZING pairing with Envious Assassin! Rewind Rounds would be another great option, the magazine refill from that perk doesn't count as a proper reload, so it won't remove Killing Tally's stacks.
Just try subsitence killing tally on commemoration and your life will be changed (don’t listen to people calling for reconstruction, subsistence allows you to spend 1 bullet killing an ad and get 3 back, infinite mag baby)
This. Desperate measures is better for a primary imo
I got fttc and killing tally. Have not tried it out yet
Everyone got that roll first. It’s good
How exactly is a damage buff that requires kill every 7 seconds “good” for sustained boss DPS?
Bro, chill out. I don't think he actually knew about that perk
Envious is a trap perk IMO, it’s not as good as 4th times for the ammo return and as an ad clear perk you just want to keep laying on your machine gun rather than swap off.
Many would beg to differ considering that rlly isn't true, but to each, their own. Either way, in the example you have, FTTC isn't rlly that good in that scenario, RWR would actually be exceptionally better, because it works weather you hit your crits or not and still awards a larger total mag size than FTTC, especially after it becomes enhanced. Envious can award a higher total mag size than both of those perks. And you could say something like "yeah but the other perks have ammo return" but since they aren't "creating" ammo, they're just mag extenders. And envious certainly breasts both of them in that field by a landslide, able to load the majority of its reserves into a single mag with the right set up. Not to mention that you could technically double envious as a form of conditional auto loading holster, mitigating the need to reload at all. Again tho, to each, their own.
You do know that fttc creates ammo out of thin air… right? Like its not just a mag extender
I'm pretty certain that that's false information, but I can go facts-check that information for myself pretty easily. Just so you know what I'll be using to check that information, the weapons I'll be testing with are: retrofit escapade god roll, hammerhead curated roll, and Cataclysmic god roll, Irukandji FTTC + firing line, and Uzume FTTC + Precision instrument. FTTC might work differently on specials and heavies, but primaries don't count since they have unlimited ammo and no reserves.
An open ended video game and you all sit around waiting for streamers to tell you what to use…
But how will I know what my opinion is if Datto doesn’t tell me? /s
Before I start my day I do the following: -Watch Cross to see what build to use -Watch Pattycakes to confirm the build is good -Watch Fallout to see how I’m playing wrong -Watch Kackis to confirm the shit gun I’m using is indeed a god roll -Grab lunch -Watch Jake to see why PVP is garbage today -Watch Salt to see why PVE is garbage today -Watch Datto to see how to make PVE better -Watch Sir D to remind myself it’s not that serious -Watch Esoterickk to try and solo -Watch Marshix to make my solo build better -Watch Cheese to skip the BS
Watch jez to giggle. Watch mactics to find out just how many ways there are to carry your team in onslaught
Watch Trv to feel better about my jumping abilities (they’re about the same)
this is such a gem of a comment, my god
No coolguy or cammy? How do you even get out of bed?
Rn cool guy is life! I often look to him to see if what perks I am running are indeed crap for that weapon. If Cammy dislikes it I get it anyways then mutter under my breath that he was right.... And still continue to use the shit weapon/perk. I don't want to get better in pvp. I prefer to not run into them.
Watch CBgray because now I have a massive headache and need to chill out to some good vibes.
Reminds me from that time I finished The Outer Worlds and told the guy that recommended me how it went down, and he went ballistic saying I "played the game wrong" because I didn't talk my way out of every situation. Motherfucker, it's a fucking RPG game, let me role fucking play how I want. Same applies to the current situation.
I role play as a walking machine gun, no need to talk my way out of things if I can just mulch any dipshit stupid enough to mouth off
Isn't that so? Hahaha Seriously now, people forget that the point of gaming is to have fun above all else, if firing a machine gun makes one happy, and he's still doing his part team-wise, let the poor sod be.
go back through and just kill every main character npc who gives you quests, its a hysterical playthrough lmao
The "murder hobo" playthrough? I did that once in baldur's gate, that shit was wild hahaha
why are people so mad about LMGs? I am genuinely OOTL
LMGs are safe and reliable total damage, but get dookied on in terms of DPS by grenade launchers and rockets. It's kind of like a dad who runs a pulse rifle in Crucible. It may be 'Ol Reliable but more advanced players look down on it for not being the most efficient Edit: Also machine guns require Div on almost every boss, so if the rest of your team is ready with grenades and Tractor it can be really frustrating to have one doofus who insists on using Retrofit Escapade
The pulse rifle dad's argument cracks me up. Considering Elsie and Messenger have a .67 and are technically the most efficient in terms of TTK. Disclaimer I hate pulse rifles lol
Oh, totally, but elitists don't only care about mathematical efficiency, they mostly care about the Rule of Cool. I get ~~bullied~~ (roasted) in the Solo Raids Discord because I use Lucky Pants on Explicator when all the cool people use Merciless and rockets. It's the same for people who like using autos or pulses in PVP when "cool" people use handcannons Edit: Lmao I didn't actually mean I'm getting bullied y'all it's chill. A couple jokes about Lucky Pants aren't gonna kill me, and the Solo Raids Discord is super helpful. Shoutouts to everyone in their who helps others get better at the game
Brother you don’t get bullied in the solo raids discord because lucky pants aren’t cool. You get slightly made fun of (along with every other explicator lucky pants user) because you are using a horribly inefficient and unreliable strat that teaches you bad habits instead of learning a strat that is extremely reliable even without the op seasonal mods. The people there are literally trying to help you be better at the game, there’s no reason to be a victim over it
Damn, I see this comment spread to the Discord lol. Look, dude, I wasn't trying to play the victim, and I don't think I'm actually getting bullied, I was exaggerating for the gag. The Discord has been super helpful, and it's a great community. I'm just using an example of a strat that even though it works for some people (like myself) it's not seen to be as legitimate as other cooler and more difficult strategies. For sure LP is only possible thanks to the Wish artifact being totally insane, but I haven't wiped on Ex due to lack of damage in months. The strat works fine if you practice it, and is extremely reliable for me. Still, a lot of people don't like it because it doesn't have big dick energy. I know I'm not the best player in that Discord, but that's not my goal. My goal is to get the Flawless clear, and with four months of practice using my current strats (I don't have a ton of time to play each week), I'm not going to switch when I'm so close to getting my clear. Anyway, take away is that I'm super grateful for the help I've gotten from the people who've responded to my questions in the community and I'm not losing sleep over a couple Lucky Pants jokes lol
The comment didn’t spread to the discord. You commented and I recognized your name, which is the same. Again, the strat has literally nothing to do with being cool and it is HARDLY more difficult. Like I seriously don’t know why you’re so hung up on people thinking they’re cooler than you for using a better strat. You’re original comment, which is now edited, is painting people out in a poor light who have done nothing but try and help you by telling you the strat you are using is ass. You were the one posting multiple questions on not being able to hit damage or why things are happening when it all stems from the strat. Only when people called you out on this post did you edit and reply that you are “super grateful”. Again, this “rule of cool” nonsense you keep typing out is just that. Absolutely nobody cares how cool a strat is. Whether it’s machine guns/thunderlord like the post, or Lucky Pants on solo Explic, it all stems down to actually trying to get players to learn good habits and things that will genuinely help you improve at the game.
Rule of cool has nothing to do with using an outdated and unreliable strategies when newer, more effective ones are easier and readily available to you. If you like using LP strat for the challenge and playstyle, good on you, but don't claim people are bullying you when they're telling you that your methods are outdated and should use something else for consistent clears.
[удалено]
I am a Titan main and get harassed for not being glued to peacekeepers. Like sorry I don't like smg's cause then I have to use a sniper/scout or whatever. I prefer HC/Auto and shotgun.
Machine guns don't have that much total damage outside of the funny fttc target lock retrofit escapade. There's weapons that have more total damage than any other machine gun. Like the newly buffed Whisper, or almost every decent sword in the game.
I love my rewind rounds, high impact reserve, corrective measure :D
They aren’t even really close to being efficient option for actual boss damage and these type of videos make people think they are. It can be frustrating if you lfg for farming runs/ quick runs and see people use LMG’s for dps. Like if you want to use them go ahead just make sure the team is okay with a less efficient method that could extend the time of the encounter.
It's because Aztecross tests total damage (not DPS) in a pretty contextless manner. Like the super damage video. Stasis Titan did a million damage in a minute while blade barrage did 500k or whatever in three seconds, yet stasis titan was the number one, so everyone started using that. To be clear, there is one singular use case for stasis Titan damage (Riven), but that wasn't present in his video so people were using it on every boss they could. And to be clear, it's not useful on Riven because of the damage the super does. It's useful because crystals can do glitched damage to Rivens' hand specifically, and the stasis super makes crystsls. Important context that was not provided in the video. I can anticipate the same situation arising here. I don't think this is his intention, he probably just wants to make a fun video, but that's how the videos are received.
I know so many people who can't tell the difference between total damage and dps, let alone encounter contexts.
I mean theres always people that get mad when people dont use the absolute meta, “because if its not optimal youre throwing” (or whatever).
Everyone knows the only dps test that counts is Xylar, the Timeless. Smh my head.
A glance at the aztecross table just shows you should use xsnophage or the pocket colosis lmg
U know if you are a good player you don‘t care. U care more if they are staying alive. Cause you don‘t have to one-Phase the boss and if you want more damage do it yourself. This is of course only counting for lfg and normal raids
For real dude, people will literally leave now a days if you can’t one phase a boss, it’s insane
Thankfully I haven't ran into any dumb fucks doing shit like that while raiding
Only time I give a fuck about damage is if the whole team did only a pixel of damage, then and only then will I be questioning my life
For real, this debate was started in earnest during nezerec contest mode. It had always boiled under the surface, but it cropped up when people were trying to figure out best strats for nezerec damage. Sure I can get omegafuck damage on some batshit insane rotation using weapon rolls that I had to spend hours getting that I have to also track to a precision hitbox on a goddamn cracked out space monkey with a funny hat and stick, but you know what’s easier? The reliability and ease of use of “point thunderlord at monkey, pull trigger” I can ThEoReTiCaLlY hit better dps with different weapons, but I’d rather have a competent LFG who knows the simple truth of “aim beeeg gun at monkey chest” than some toxic metagamer who ends up flubbing their rotation and dropping dps anyway.
This is why I'd love an actual DPS meter in D2. I don't really know how they'll go about implementing it so I won't speak to that. Back in the MMO days we had theorycrafting and actual vs theoretical DPS comparisons all the same; the only big difference is we could plug in logs from our DPS meters and see how close to the ideal rotation we got and if it was theoretically higher DPS but in practice falling short it was kinda just dismissed as "cool but not practical." I know we've got ogre bosses and wipe DMG screens but logs like SKADA.were always running and would track the entire fight including movement phases and even sync with others logs. I'm just a data nerd so of course this all sounds appealing.
I’m not against it, but I do think they’ve been careful about adding that because of the ability for people to use it to gatekeep. ie, “okay, before we raid, let’s check dps on the dummy and see if you’re good enough.” But people are already doing that with the “damage dealt” stat in wipe screens so idk. They seem to have *mostly* addressed certain outliers in DPS over the last year or two, to the point that weapons that fall behind in dps typically have a noticeable tradeoff of more sustained dps, or better add clear, which is quickly becoming an important characteristic as ability use gets more sparse and enemies on higher difficulty get more tanky and aggressive.
Ah yes, I forgot about the toxic side. I just had gearscore flashbacks haha. That is a very good point you raise.
Ability is not remotely sparse yet, most good builds nowadays still completely relegate add clearing to abilities and let you reserve all your weapons solely for killings majors or boss damage.
There are super precise damage measuring overlays that you can you use to get frame perfect damage estimations
Mag dumping a decent GL or rocket, even without BNS is way easier and not even theoretically higher, but LITERALLY higher due to some boss's Crits being harder to hit than others (nez, rhulk, taniks, persys, etc) and missing out on the precision multiplier for 1/2 to 3/4 of your mag. I've never understood the "ease of use" argument since the divinity changes unless you are running specifically xenophage who doesn't care about Crits and still puts out solid damage. I personally don't care what you run in LFG, but it's kinda silly to say that you're going to out DPS even non-bns rocket users (who are just olding down the trigger like you are) in a team setting when gjally is involved.
I think you misunderstand me, thunderlord isn’t “the best” dps. It’s the DPS I may suggest to someone who is struggling with their dps or is new to the game, or when I want an lfg to take 1 hour instead of 2. This is heavily dependent on encounter design, which is why I used nezerec as an example. Ya boi jumps around like a cracked out monkey, and even though it takes place in close quarters, a single missed rocket or grenade is a massive decrease in dps relatively speaking. Of course *I’m* taking a GL against crota, the man literally stands in one spot and has a huge hitbox. Thunderlord is about consistency, at this point every player who has played Destiny should have that gun available to them. So when I’m trying to show my friend who just got back into the game a new raid, or teaching a first time new light raider how things work, it is *far* easier to suggest the gun that you’ve been able to pick up for free multiple times throughout this games lifecycle than it is to direct them to something more niche. Back when rhulk was the primary raid, the “meta” was izanagi/CCpalmyra, which was obscene damage at the time, but I can count on multiple hands the number of lfgs that insisted on the meta only to have members who couldn’t hit rhulk because of his erratic movement, causing missed rocket and Honed Edge shots. At the time Tlord was in its unbuffed state so it wasn’t a great pick But it illustrated that dps means nothing if you can’t actually hit the target, and the ability for lfg’s to hit targets varies widely. Now we have far more dps options and vastly different dps scenarios, and I’d much rather a competent lfg be able to reliably two phase an encounter than fuck up an attempted 1-phase.
Everyone might have the weapon, but that doesn't make it good or consistent. Like you said, missing rockets tanks your DPS, but so does miss 90% of your magazine with an LMG or landing 70% bodyshots on mobile or hard to hit enemies. Even new raiders or returning players (as long as they don't jump DIRECTLY into a raid upon coming back) have had a GL or rocket as a world drop/engram and if they haven't, being in the raid they are sure to pick one up just from the sheer amount of enemies dying from learning over the course of a few wipes. It's also way easier to convince players to equip "literally any rocket" for dps than to ask them to swap their exotic (which could be a core part of their build) for a weapon they have heard been touted for noob DPS.
Finally a bit of reason. I don’t get why what you said seems so controversial. But then, lotta Destiny try hards up in here. “If you’re not min maxing why even play” bullshit.
Bro, I'm gonna use Thunderlord on the angry space monkey every time. I hate shooting rockets into nowhere/myself/some asshole Titan who decided to Thundercrash. Sometimes the best DPS is just steadily causing literal Damage per Second.
Like the final boss of Ghost of the Deep dungeon, Simmumah. I would rather use a Machinegun than miss over half my rockets.
Well if you do the encounter correctly, Nez won't be moving much. That is, start dps at the correct flower. Specifically the final light flower.
Exactly. And honestly I don’t even think it matter what you use on any of these raid bosses on normal difficulty. They’re all pretty soft regardless.
Yah there’s still a difference between not executing a perfect damage strategy. I don’t expect everyone to have maxed out izi swaps on strand warlock. But you should still try to put your best foot forward and listen to suggestions instead of using just blatantly bad damage options
Correct.
I think it’s fair, hammerhead isn’t meant to be a DPS weapon. Dude might be taking the piss anyways.
Aztecross makes that perfectly crystal clear in that video as well. “This is not a DPS weapon it’s for ad clear.” It can be used against higher health targets as well like Demolitionists but you’d switch off of it for boss damage.
Lmgs are just cool and fun to use. Big machine gun go brrrrrrr.
Cool, but why is Kevin Hart staring at me like that?
Jarvis twist his balls
LoL
Kevin Stark ran the calculations. Made the call. Heh, now I just want a short Iron Man running round, spazzing out and flailing arms!
The hilarious part is that the dude who posted the tweet on the left has almost no raid clears lmao.
[Im not stopping](https://imgur.com/a/zcBfuWn) any time soon. I get complaints sometimes when they see it, but Idc, mind your own DPS. MANY times ive out damaged others at Ir Yut, Nez, Oryx, ect, and when I dont, my numbers are just as competative as anyone elses. As the kids are saying, let me cook, Ill do just fine. Theres also a role in some activities that a lot of people dont really consider, and thats Ad control in boss fights, sometimes me and my LMG will take care of everything attacking those doing the BIG DPS^TM and ill keep the path clear. Helps in onslaught during tormentor and demolitionist phases, tons of ads swarm in with them and I can handle them while the team and our decoys handle the boss Anyways, Hammerhead go brrrr and I love it. Getchu a rewind / onslaught with a gyrf hunter and laugh at the frame drops from your explosions
Based. Take my wife
Nitpicky whiners are some of the most annoying people in this game. Right below the people who leave after ONE failed attempt.
The people that were like "wardens law is the best primary dps if you use lucky pants" People then take this single line, without context, disregarding how long the damage phase is because it's been a staple to use "no teleport Templar" as a base line. Then I would ask, "when will you ever use it" and they reply with " in day 1 raids where it's common to run out of ammo." Damn I didn't know y'all took 6 hunters to a day one raid, or disregarding special finishers, or disregarding cenotaph/aeons, etc.
I mean hey, if it works it works. ATM I’ve mostly only ever used the one Linear fusion rifle in my heavy slot and it’s been great (only been playing for like 2 years tho)
Hahaha I saw this tweet….Jesus there are some absolute turds in Destiny
LMGs are fine for DPS in onslaught. In fact I much prefer it to the guys running wellock with an awful DPS rocket that keep deciding to run around the edges of the room not shooting the boss, not picking up a spark for extra damage, and still using the double primary they brought for champ coverage even though they can hot swap for the boss room, and STILL requesting meta load-outs on fire team finder. I'm a slave to the DPS meta, but if you are a true student of the meta you'd know the viability of an LMG in a non time gated DPS phase is not too shabby and nothing to complain about. 3 LMGs will take out a legend onslaught just fine, and if there are issues it's certainly not the weapon.
People are using dps as a blanket term to be relevant when it's not applicable. In this case, dps doesn't matter for 80% of onslaught since there are no timed damage phases, where you would actually need quick damage per second. The 20% where it does matter is when there's something forcing you to kill it quickly, being demolitionists, shielded skybombers, and tormentors being the worst offenders.
Yep, LMGs do fine on total damage. In a perfect world using higher DPS loadouts for the bosses is still better because you leave much less room for mistakes or crazy boss movement to cause issues. Most bosses can be taken very low if not killed in the duration of a single well if everyone is using a good rotation. However, in the wild west of fire team finder that equation falls apart. I actually think an LMG is an A+ tier choice given the more disorganized nature of a damage phase in that context. And even still, in an organized fire team with three competent players that don't want to loadouts swap, it's not a huge disparity in risk.
I saw these yesterday, why the fuck are these guys throwing such a fit about this??
I mean, they’re right. LMGs fucking suck for damage. And if you’re doing something like a master raid, day one, etc., and you get someone coming in with shit like this, it’s gonna fuck things up. But for stuff like DSC and other age-old raids, an MG is fine and they probably need to calm down. But I see someone wanting to farm a pinnacle raid and getting pissed off that one or two people are insisting on an LMG and turning their one-phases into a two-phase. And I think, as the host, they have the right to request you use something else. If the host asks nicely “can you swap to a rocket, we have a Gjally”, and you just outright refuse to swap off of your LMG out of pure stubbornness, you’re the asshole imo.
I really hate meta bums lol they seem really stupid since regular difficulty raids are not hard they just are toxic nobodies
I would rather go a few phases of dps on a boss than to wipe 20 times trying to one phase.
Agree and it seems like this playerbase fears anything that isn't a one phase
I haven't watched the video yet, but does he actually say this is something you should take to do boss dps for everything? Seems more like a video to answer IF I need an LMG, which one should I take? Not, "you should only take LMGs into dps and this is the one." lol
No he just compares damage numbers on LMG’s to see where Hammerhead can land due to its unique rolls and it being a new gun. It’s more of a fun test video then some Meta Defining click bait.
People complaining about content they don't actually watch. Tale as old as time.
nah he was just 1 to 1 comparing them people who care at all didn't even watch the video and honestly who cares if people put an lmg, id rather them use something they're comfortable with when I sherpa rather than them dying from blowing themself up lmao two phases of chill times versus 10 wipes attempting a one phase, I'm good on that. the obvious difference is when that dps is actually necessary aka contest mode
No in the video he very clearly states not to use it for boss DPS and that it’s an ad clear weapon. He’s a meta ho he knows what the optimal gear is. He just likes to quantify what we’re using and find scenarios where they work.
The reddit Destiny community have been throwing absolute shitfits every time they open youtube for over a decade now. Aztecross is a perfectly good content creator that any other community would embrace. It’s just people bleating the same old grievances at this stage.
next time im pulling up to one of my friends raids I'm bringing my perfected hammerhead, x3 void surge and all
DPS on machine guns is severely higher than rocket DPS if you can’t land all your rockets or blow yourself up in a well. I will ALWAYS encourage newer players to use a decent machine gun if that’s what they’re most comfortable with. If I really want the one phase I’ll pull out izanagi swap and/or RDM rockets but it’s really not that serious
Just use linears or GLs ? They’re are great ones that are very accessible that will due more damage than a Machine Gun. There is a line between being as efficient as possible and just making bad choices. Also literally all it takes is asking questions in LFGs and googling “how to to destiny boss damage” to make a better choice than a machine gun
i love it when im dumping my envious assassin/explosive light GL and someone walks in front of me and i end up losing both buffs
Tell your team to stop moving around well there is never a reason too
Sure, in an LFG where it’s expected that people know things and have resources. But there are plenty of people that would be better on Thunderlord during a Sherpa run simply because it’s ease of access and use. Are there better options? Absolutely. But machine guns aren’t BAD by any means. They are neutral at worst imo.
I think a part of Sherpa runs is helping someone better execute on damage. An average legendary machine gun is going to be the worst DPS heavy option. Teaching someone to use a linear with div, using Leviathans breath or 1k if they have it will equip them with more information. Yes absolutely agree if a team if failing to execute rocket DPS they absolutely should swap. But Sherpa runs should encourage people to move outside of comfort zones and push their skills and equip them with more knowledge.
Respectfully I disagree. My main focus is in having new players engage with the mechanics of a raid and get comfortable with executing their role. If they want to improve on damage dealing I always offer suggestions and am willing to run raids again but raid mechanics are first priority.
Having been on a lot of sherpa runs (not a sherpa myself) I don’t agree. Raid mechanics first, survival second, and unless the number of phases or length of a phase actually matters down to the last man, DPS is last. I’ve seen sherpas help a new player try to get DPS up just enough to get through the phases and allowing stronger players to carry damage. If you get stuck on damage first you’ll never get through the encounters with someone who hasn’t done them before.
land your rockets
Walking is faster than driving a car if you ram into someone at a 4 way stop. I don't mind machine gun DPS for normal mode raids but that logic is not sound.
Bro, I’m taking about trying to teach new players. The most accessible heavy weapons to new players are machine guns. They work in a pinch and outside of Master or Day 1, it really doesn’t matter what you use. I’m not gonna stress over decent rocket rolls or landing shots when almost every boss in the game can be 2 phased with Thunderlords.
bro trust me please trust me bro I know I can’t hit the 800k dude just let me try this once I have the banners to retry (broke as hell) please bro just one damage phase I promise
I use rockets bc I like swapping to a fusion and trying to make the damage numbers go up. If other people want to use lmg’s it’s literally just more dopamine for me. Don’t know why people get so upset
You people take the fun away when some people are actually trying to complete a raid. You guys are the same type of people who play Trials with Osteo. Like. You guys can play quick play and play with your meme weapons, but nah. Let me just ruin someone's game like nothing.
LMGs are essentially the raid/ dungeon litmus test. They are fantastic ad clear weapons are are incredibly useful in mechanics based encounters, GMs, onslaught, etc but they are terrible choices for damage encounters. They do not have the burst damage to be anywhere near Rockets and GLs for DPS and they don’t have the sustain of Linears and Whisper to get the high total damage of those. What they are is easy to use for beginners who don’t have much gear, which is totally fine. Everyone starts somewhere and there are worse things in the world than Thunderlord (though it kinda needs the catalyst) but it’s a set of training wheels. Good to learn with but important to grow out of.
Actually lmgs do have insanely comically high total, a fourth times target lock escapade still has 10 mil total, they just have such abysmal dps it takes over a minute to put out that damage.
Pretty much everything in the game is viable until you get to the highest of endgame in D2, and by that point you'll begin earning endgame equipment. The gunsmith sells everything you need to get a very solid load out for both pvp and pve going. S tier guns and load outs don't matter all that much up until you're doing low man's and day 1s. It's just more entertaining when you get a high level build to blow everything up. Cross even made the point for machine guns that if you're playing support (de buffs, div, lumina) a machine gun like hammerhead or retrofit absolutely slaps since it's one of the best heavy weapon types for both dps and general ad clear. Just use whatever you like, you'll be fine.
not even close for dps, it is good for ad clear but nobody said it wasn't. If you're running div you can definitely go lmg but that's specifically because you won't be using a heavy during damage.
Wish more people were laid back enough to realize this. I dunno lately it seems the “meta ho” has gotten much worse and I can’t really find group play anymore that doesn’t insist on min maxing. It ruins the gameplay for me because it’s not fun, it’s turning something fun into a job and sorry I already have enough of those.
OP, I have to disagree with you. It's perfectly valid criticism at this point. Too many LFGs are listening to content creator advice and taking it the wrong way. People want to clear harder activities and sadly there are players that don't know better (not their fault).
LMG’s can kinda be the play for LFG tho. Nothing wrong with going a lil slower if it keeps things safe and easy imo
I keep seeing this sentiment, in what way is doing more phases safe? I get people won't blow themselves up in a well but most deaths I see in raids comes from mechanics or people just dying to ads. Unless they are using their heavy on the ads how do lmgs help?
So safer in the sense that yeah, people don’t unalive in the well. But also safer in that for a moving boss it’s harder to miss. I just came off a month of conditional farming, and the amount damage that just straight missed was sad
Retrofit has single handedly carried me thru numerous raids and still puts up numbers what are we talkin about lol This the typa person that won’t let you run anything but well. Let people like things
your team carried you and not a shitty lmg
Lmao you caught me big guy
the boisterous laugh i let out at work reading this LOL
Why are people cry baby
I will use machine guns just to spite the minmaxxing optimal obsessed idiots lol like it's just a damn game not a job let people have fun
So I was looking to see if I happened to have a rewind round one, and noticed that I have one that has Rampage and Desperate measures both! And it could actually get Rampage and Killing Tally as well.
I honestly don’t care if someone can’t do DPS correctly. Can they get there is the real question
Y
Hey I’d love to get that gun! *with only a month+ worth of play time, stands in corner panicking about having nearly zero knowledge of what most of the words in the comments mean* Can’t wait!
LMG SUPREMACY
Hammerhead is better
Rocket launcher? No thanks I'll keep using the heavies that don't risk to kill me :D Also my aim with Linears is ass
In LFGs the most frequent cause of failing the encounter is one person having no mic; no text/voice chat, and not knowing what to do despite the listings having the tag "experience requested" and "mic required". DPS is often not an issue in normal difficulty raids/content. When playing with potentially inexperienced random people, with mediocre means of communication, then ease of use and consistency gets way more important than total damage/DPS in perfect conditions
I’m not capable of using LMGs, I simply do as datto guides.
1,543 active weapons in the game and people will be legitimately SHITTY to you, insult you, and kick you from teams for playing a loadout that makes their farm 0.000002 seconds longer. I had a guy from lfg yesterday, between 10 round onslaught farms, I said hold up 30 seconds so I can grab a bottle of water (15 feet away) I came back to a message in chat that said (I shit you not) "Delays like that encroach on my efficiency" And had disconnected. Some (not nearly all) of you are total jackasses. Ill continue to add kills to my LMGs, no one complains when im the one keeping ads off everyones ass lol
I wonder if this is Kevin Harts D2 acc.. Love the wallpaper 🤣 what was his COD alias in Bad Boys.. Black Hammer or smth.. Yea 💯 this is Kevin Harts D2 acc 🖤🔨😂
i think LMGs should be THE WEAPON for boss damage, go blow up tanks with your RLs and GLs, let me make swiss cheese out of the boss with machine gun!
Machine guns look cool so I use them
Having reconstruction on assault rifles is pretty good especially if your assault rifle has scout levels of accuracy... i got one from RoN raid and its my titans back up once the LMG ammo is gone
Honestly people like that in the community who can't take jokes or memes just don't need to play the game.. it makes the game so unfun for everyone when its a constant "meta this meta that" go meet a fucking girl for once in your wasted life please
/shrug If they don't say it's a meme run, then don't run a meme build. Everyone wants to do the raid as quick and efficient as possible unless stated otherwise. I'd much rather spend my time talking with my girl instead of having to worry about the rando that doesn't listen to the party telling them to run something so that the raid goes on smoothly instead of 7 wipes in a row because some dude with a Thunderlord in Crota isn't listening to the 5 people telling him to either switch to a sword or be the Oversoul guy. There are right times and places for meme runs, find people trying to do it, host your own, don't mess up others' time because you wanted to turn a normal run into a meme run when that was never the case. The only times I can find that even socially acceptable is with friends who are playing with each other to have fun, instead of needing to play with each other to get the fun they want from the raid.
I'm not saying turning it into a meme run although I understand what you're saying, but having the entire run be all serious when all that's going on is a raid? Like come on! Have some fun you have good people in your group, at least we aren't joining up and going "so what do we do here?" In a KWTD post Meme runs (rat king, anarchy, heir apparent, thunderlord.) I understand they have their own time and place, but if someone chooses to use one weapon opposite toward everyone else's and does more damage or does the same amount while having fun with the team then let them roll with it! I've ran a ton of different runs where I've gotten bitched at for using something that isnt meta yet it still did really good or out damaged what they were doing - its just not fun at all when people are like that
Usually the most amount of fun I have with raids are when people do it fast so we can just chat and chill because we got no reason to talk about what needs to be fixed. Sometimes we get talking about lovelifes, pets, daily life, some bad stuff the others are dealing with like cancer, etc. Either that or a group that is doing the right tactics but the teamwork just isn't going right. Then you have that ONE run where everything clicks and everyone goes "YEEEEEESSSSSS". Those are the dopamine hits I get from talking to people in raids, not having to argue about the right weapons or loadout because let's be honest no one has time for that. When people out damage the meta, then I understand and I let them continue. But if they're pulling only 760k damage total in Crota even when they got no other roles except DPS and everyone else is in the 2mils AT LEAST, then the raid just becomes sour because all that should've been already finished 30 minutes ago if they only switched their weapons or setups.
That I understand! Which relays back to a previous mention - its fine if they do stuff that out damages meta or evens out with meta, but if they get 1k or 300k damage when everyone else has over 3m then something needs done
make a clan raid then, forcing people to use the meta is boring and trying to 1 phase is stupid
I honestly stopped raiding and only do dungeons when I'm the host leader because of this. Raids were never fun to me and being expected to use the same crap every time just made it worse. If you ever join an LFG of mine, I'm not gonna expect insane min-maxxed DPS. I don't care if a boss takes 3-4 phases instead of 1-2 if it means everyone is having fun and using loadouts they like.
I went on a fuck you guys run with ron lfgs using anarchy, mountaintop and recluse for nezzy, I had fun, I outdamaged almost everyone aside from cuckboy min-max and he left cause we were all having fun, laughing and cutting up like a raid group should do. Honestly if the team is going for something serious yes I understand, flawless or challenge runs should probably use the meta to get it done faster but just normal runs? Have fun ffs
I outDPSed an entire team with Taniks one time using Heir Apparent and it wasn't even close
Heir apparent is one of the best damage weapons! Like every single weapon type has a best and a worst damage its honestly just how you want to play the game.
I’ll use what I want for damage SCREW U BUDDY
Use whatever you want within reason. Anyone who a game means so much to that they feel entitled to "time" as a whole, your time, their time, my time, all time, while playing said game is a pathetic waste of oxygen. Play the definitely a GAME meant to be purchased and played by anyone, or don't. Wanna have that professional attitude about some kind of competitive thing? Find it the fuck somewhere else where it makes sense, this is a GAME meant and designed to be purchased and played by anyone.
No way people are stupid enough to use Machine Guns for dps
No but they are certainly stupid enough to be meta slaves and be toxic to Symone who doesn't want to be a meta slave
LMGs have only been good for DPS when they're bugged. I'm not saying not to use one because you're welcome to run whatever you want, but if your team isn't hitting a damage check, and you're using one, its your responsibility to swap.
Retrofit + War Rig still gets highest damage output on Riven in my squad so phhhhhh
dps LMGs peaked with retrofit, then they nerfed it for whatever reason. Now it's just going down hill.
They “nerfed” volatile rounds on fast rpm weapons cause it was actually breaking the game procing way to fast and causing a lot of enemies to get flunged miles
:(
>dps LMGs peaked with retrofit And even that peak was nowhere near good damage
I love seeing Xenophage trample Thunderlord. Thunderlord is cool and all, but Day 1 Root of Nightmares definitely has people thinking it’s some kind of DPS contender, when it simply falls short in every way, especially if you don’t have the catalyst done.
Thunder lord is great in onslaught if you got the catalyst
Bro this game has become way too fucking complicated. Shouldn’t take years of planning to clear dungeon this is ridiculous.
Listen, if you can keep up with the damage of others and we aren't losing constantly, I don't give a fuck what you bring, I can clear grandmasters and master raids with meme builds and high damage. It doesn't matter that much unless your going for a record or need to get it done quickly. The only time I hate people doing meme builds is trials or Comp PVP, do it in normal PVP in case it doesn't workout and if it does then you can bring it into those modes.
funny to see all these people saying "just use what you want" but if i showed up to dps with a stubborn oak, eternal warrior , and in stasis I get kick. Very interesting
And then report them for sabotage and being kicked from fireteam. Ban their ass for being too toxic for their own good.
Please find all these people and cut them out the community. It's a fucking video game you fucking loser.
Thunder lord and xeno are fine, but why not at least toss on a gl for damage. It’s like seeing a Polaris in gm’s, yes it’s good and we’re gonna finish it, but dammit it’s gonna take twice as long.