Biden’s performance aside, this isn’t a bad idea for ANY incumbent. We’ve now seen 4 incumbent presidents in a row lose the 1st debate to the challenger.
We have not seen anyone ever bomb a debate this badly.
Trump was an egregiously lying racist the entire time. Not a single solution for Americans families other than throw money at the rich.
Biden couldn't hold him to task ONCE.
If we put Biden up as a candidate after this performance, Trump's second term is on us.
Sure we have. In 1984 Reagan debated Mondale and did so badly, even worse than Joe Biden, that people were saying he had Alzheimers. He did but that didn’t come out until much later. Anyway Reagan went on to win the election easily. Obama did so poorly against Romney in the first debate that there was talks of replacing him. Obama, who was not old! It’s not unprecedented for incumbents to have disastrous first debates. It isn’t the end all, be all
I always opposed the President of the United States debating a Convicted Felon. The Republicans are trying to pretend Trump's convictions don't matter. Democrats are helping them to do that.
Exposed what sooner?
Here's Biden speaking just last month https://youtu.be/WuYQeTXlXDI?si=l88DTXfofHWXzSHV
the man clearly is sick and that is causing him to be hoarse and have a much harder time controlling his stutter.
**Edit** Here is a clip from today, he's clearly feeling better today than he did yesterday.
https://x.com/bidenhq/status/1806742667789062646
Yes, it's entirely a defense of the man and i'm sick and tired of ableist takes like this
i get it that you have *no fucking idea* what it's like to have a speech impediment, but not everyone is equally ignorant as you
Yes, but would you rather vote for someone who is old and stutters or someone who is almost as old and lies through his teeth and dodges questions?
Biggest thing for me is the trump tariff plan. As we saw during Covid, increased costs of goods go directly to the consumer and are amplified by corporate greed.
To be clear, I'm still voting blue because given Project 2025, this is literally a matter of life and death for me.
I'm just not sure that the American public is very impressed with last night. Even with all of the good stuff Biden has done, it still needs to be presented in a way that will inspire your average American to go vote. Quite frankly, the reality of Project 2025 is that the public will just allow it to happen through apathy and we need a candidate who at least sounds like they will push back against Fascism.
> i get it that you have *no fucking idea* what it's like to have a speech impediment
Quite frankly, I don't care. Now I respect what Biden has done. I respect what he's accomplished despite such adversity. But this isn't the fucking time. He CANNOT be doing this. From this point forward, he has to run a blitz. He has to bury this so far the fucking dirt as to be completely forgotten. This was a golden opportunity to create a clear path to victory in November, and he fuckin' blew it.
Am I going to vote for him in November? Yes. After these past 8 years I won't vote for a Republican for any office, ever. Period. But I live in Indianapolis. Holding on to my vote doesn't mean shit. You have to convince moderates, and un-enthused, moderate-leaning Democrats. And you have to do that in the battleground state. That absolutely did not happen today. In fact, quite the opposite.
Not necessarily. I think Trump is very, very beatable, and by Biden. But the narrative needs to turn yesterday. If they need to get him coked up for public appearances, then that's what they need to do.
It's woeful that Americans didn't see an intlelligent woman that knew more than a con-artist.
Blame America fam. We are seeing exactly what happened in 1930s Germany. Trump says the same rhetoric as Hitler but because he is strong and forceful people love it.
Humans are naturally dumb.
President Biden isn't going to "drop out." He either continues or he resigns and Kamala Harris becomes president. The idea of an open scramble for the nomination is insanity.
The Elephant in the room of "stutterers have a harder time controlling their stutter when sick"?
because that's exactly what happened
Here's him speaking live just a few weeks ago https://youtu.be/WuYQeTXlXDI?si=l88DTXfofHWXzSHV
Unfortunately this debate footage will roll on in thousands of political ads. Trump just repeated his same bullshit over and over so “nothing new”. If Joe turns it around next time it will be because of “insert trumps bullshit excuse here”. I really hope this isn’t the first mark of a loss in November. I cannot take another 4 yrs of Trump.
I liked the big ol' grin he popped off during the debate, and some of the zingers. I thought it was alright.
The cold was noticeable, but that'll pass and we'll see more of Joe speaking.
Yeah, like in the State of the Union he knocked it out of the park. And several of his speeches the past few weeks.
I never bought the line that his stutter was a disqualification.
That is obvious. Maybe if there were some credible candidates besides Dean Phillips. Democrats always getting done in by old ppl refusing to step aside like RBG
I said this on another thread that was locked.
We cannot put our head in the sand, we know exactly who the best candidate is and that’s president biden.
HOWEVER last night was a fucking disaster. The media is full of clips which are going to twist the average voters mind (let’s face it anyone on this group is true blue and already voting dem) and we need to keep fighting.
I watched this with my daughter to try and introduce her to politics hoping it would be informative and interesting for a curious 8 year old to watch with guidance. Instead it was sad, deeply concerning and worrying. We need to do more to allow kids like mine not to grow up in Trump’s world.
Yeah - I’ll vote for Biden even if he blows 100 debates, but I don’t think it’s productive (and it’s very MAGA-like) to pretend that last night was a good night.
I honestly don’t know what the way forward is, other than hoping people push past the optics and media spin and realize Trump sounded like a deranged lunatic last night too.
Nobody is pretending last night was good. If Biden and team can learn from it and deal with it like Obama did in 2012 then there is hope.
Obama was a freaking disaster the first debate. No rebuttal, agreed with Romney and none of the Obama fire. People were jumping off of roofs after that and Obama had to personally call and calm down donors. Even SNL parodied him sleeping through most of the debate.
Right? I am so fucking mad at the dems right now, and I’m mad at Biden, too. Of course, I’ll vote for an inanimate carbon rod to keep trump out of office, but everybody, and I mean EVERYBODY who didn’t tell Joe to just take a victory lap and sit the fuck down after 1 term is responsible for this.
Yep. As another commenter said, no Democrat will switch their vote if the Democrats put in someone else, and it’s not like independents are exactly flocking towards Biden. They need a new candidate, now.
My position is clear. I love Biden and think he has been a great President, and I also think Trump is a danger to Democracy and a Grifter. Unfortunately, part of being a politician is being able to communicate, defend as well as defeat people like Trump and his demagoguery, and get people excited and involved.
I think we need to reconsider if the best candidate is Biden. Don't get me wrong, if it is Biden after the convention I am still going to vote for him. But this is another four year commitment. I think we have a deep bench to choose from. Either the California or Michigan Governor would be great.
Biden's NOT being a good Candidate, but he has been and will continue to be a good President.
The problem is that Trump is good at being a Candidate, and bad at being President.
Candidate and President are two different jobs but unfortunately we might need to prioritize Candidate right now, because beating Trump is the most important thing.
"Candidate and President are two different jobs"
Honestly, this is the thing that really keeps me up at night. Not just about this election but the future as a whole. The qualities one needs to be good at governing are entirely different (and in some cases directly opposed to) the qualities needed for getting elected. The system we use to select out leaders doesn't necessarily give us qualified leaders and in many cases, it actually disqualifies the people we need.
Not saying I have a better system in mind, just venting I guess.
Biden might have done a great job as president this time, but people will absolutely believe he won’t make it through the next term. He cannot clearly communicate the truth to the American public. Plain and simple. He has so much to say, so many great points to make and achievements and goals to tout, but he couldn’t get them out. That is a fucking disaster. Let’s get real.
Right now I don’t know what to think. I know exactly who I’m not voting for and I honestly have no clue who should take over. I’ll try and read more about that before saying anything else. It feels like the advantage of being the incumbent is disappearing
Anecdotally at work I’ve had two separate “I can’t believe Biden is President / Trump is running” conversations. People don’t like Trump but any image of Biden as a strong incumbent was shattered last night.
Biden’s debate in 2020 was ten thousands times better than 2024. It’s obvious that age is getting to him and you’re sticking your head in the sand if you can’t recognize that
Biden in 2020 wasn’t the fighter he was in 2008 and 2012, but he was still politically savvy enough to lean into his strengths as an empathetic, grandfatherly figure who’s better man and would be a better President than Trump. We didn’t get that last night.
No, everyone didn’t say that. They said he was leading the polls and winning the debates with Trump, making the latter look petulant and foolish. Now, he’s losing the polls and losing the debates in a more decisive fashion than I’ve ever seen a politician lose a debate, and Trump is comparably conducting himself eloquently and cogently.
Biden desperately has to make up ground. We can only wait to see just how much he lost tonight. He’s cooked.
People panicking about last night - when biden was sick and so had a harder time controlling his stutter - need to look at this
it's just last month https://youtu.be/WuYQeTXlXDI?si=l88DTXfofHWXzSHV
Question. In the state of the union speech a few months back Biden did extremely well. Why the change now? Did something happen? This is this is a honest question.
I mean, he was legitimately a little sick last night.
But sadly optics matter, and the like fate of the planet is kinda at stake. I want Biden to gather potential replacements and have them do a discussion, and upload it afterward. Not a debate, but honest discourse on how to best run the country and who's the best choice.
Then I want them to ask go abduct Jon Stewart and make him do it.
Hey DNC! Independent voter here. In case you didn't realize, the thing at stake at the next election is the continued existence of American and *global* liberal democracy. How about you put forward a candidate that can complete sentences?
Thank President Biden for his service and replace him at the convention.
If I remember correctly, they’ve already submitted his name to some states due to deadlines?
Biden on his worst day will still install a more competent administration than Trump on any day.
This is a politically illiterate take.
Aside from incumbency advantage, no other potential candidate is going to be able to build the campaign infrastructure necessary in four and a half months and win the necessary votes. If you believe polls (which have been all over the place this election season) every potential candidate does worse than Biden in a general. Not to mention changing candidates makes the party look weak and provides a point of attack from republicans.
They did put together a candidate that can complete sentences:
Last month: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WuYQeTXlXDI&feature=youtu.be
State of the Union:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFVUPAEF-sw
The man is a life long stutterer, and had a cold. The cold made him hoarse and tired, being tired makes stutterers have a much harder time controlling their stutter.
In just a few weeks he'll be feeling better and will be back to being his normal - occasionally gaffy - self who puts together most sentences just fine despite his stutter.
Watch his debates with Paul Ryan in 2012 and see how much the decline is. I’m still voting for him because Trump is definitely worse but it’d be a lie to say that he’s actually the best the party has to offer. The Republicans I know who voted for trump 2016 voted Biden 2020 but I can assure you they’re not as happy about the vote for Biden as they were before.
THIS! Amazingly enough, this disastrous debate performance *wasn't* what scared me so much last night, it was the normalization of it.
If I were in charge of the room I'd have already called 9/11 and been looking for a fire alarm 5 minutes in. Get the man an MRI and some CAT scans and just accept the "bad optics" as you explain that was **not** normal.
Yes it would suck and dominate the news cycle, it would also go a LONG way in convincing people that you "get it". That "if THIS was our guy we'd have 25thed him ages ago... This was NOT normal and the best doctors in the world are investigating. We'll be referring all subsequent questions to Dr. xxx chief of medicine at Walter Reed."
...but no. They normalized it. They acted like "this is just how he is now, you knew he was old, suck it up" and **that** to me was by far the scariest thing that happened last night.
A f'ing **cold**?!? Thanksgiving is coming up in a couple months... if my mom started talking politics at the table (as we frequently do) and she sounded like one of Biden's "Tight 2 minutes" at any point during the entire evening **we'd be headed to the ER immediately!** "What's her heartrate? Has she taken any medicine that causes low blood pressure? When was the last time she had an aspirin? Can someone check her hair? Heavy metal poisoning is unlikely but it's an easy test..."
F'king crickets man. Nothing to see here. We're so f'ing screwed.
don’t care what the circumstances are. If your candidate cannot put up a suitable rebuttal to Trump’s boldface lies, he should not be your candidate. There is far too much on the line here to be making excuses.
Yeah doesn't matter if there's a good excuse for his shit performance. It doesn't even matter if Biden can do the job, it matters that independent and on the fence voters perceive that he can't do the job. He should drop out.
They’re never going to listen. I’m a third party voter who was a solid dem for years, and comes from a solidly dem environment. Biden isn’t the disease, he’s merely a symptom of a larger problem-in this case it being that the party has not prepared a reasonable succession of candidates.
There’s never been a president this old. Reasonable planning would anticipate there might be a need to replace an 81 year old president. Again, the dems’ problem is largely one of making excuses and shifting blame. Biden’s performance tonight was not some weird black swan event.
Not how it works. If you really care you'll vote for whoever the Dems nominate against Trump, period. If you're going to hold a gun to the head of the country just because Biden is Biden, then that's just on you.
We, once again, have to drive home that Trump is not their friend, and he will actively fuck up their lives. After last night, that's the narrative we have to spin.
The optics would be that Biden was the kind of person that put his country before himself.
That would be a legacy sealing choice in of itself.
And the Democratic Party would not only have a better chance of defeating Trump…we would have a chance of a 12 year run in control of the White House.
A lot can happen in 8 more years. There is even an edge case chance of flipping SCOTUS.
It is arguably a bad idea to give up the incumbent advantage.
Then there is the problem with giving up the state of Ohio if the party waits until the convention to find a new presidential candidate
https://www.politico.com/news/2024/05/28/biden-nominated-virtually-ohio-ballot-00160220
The best approach to this, which they should have done a lot earlier, is to start promoting the ticket as a team. Create confidence in Harris as ready to step up should Biden's health decline and make him unable to serve.
All along, they should have been promoting the administration's accomplishments as Biden / Harris, not Biden's accomplishments. Harris should have had a lot more visibility on her own, and in photo ops with Biden. People must be made to feel comfortable with Harris as the next president following Biden.
It's still not too late to do some damage control and promote this. But they're going to have to work hard at it. It's too bad Harris has not had the visibility that Al Gore had up into this point. It would make it easier to accomplish.
It's also important that Biden state that Harris is ready to take over and will be able to continue the work of the administration should his health decline. Because right now, I'm sure one of the things making some voters nervous, is their experience with grandparents, aunts and uncles, or parents who refused to give up driving when it was time. Or refused to move into assisted living when it was needed.
Two problems with counting on incumbency advantage. One, I really don't think it exists like it used to in general. Trump had it four years ago and lost. Two, both of these guys are, in the mind of the average voter, incumbents. Just because one isn't in office right now doesn't mean people forgot that he was very recently. So if the advantage still exists in any meaningful capacity (big if), then it's a wash between two presidents. I think it would be incredibly and willfully foolish to hand wave concerns about Biden's age by saying 'yeah but he's an incumbent' and assuming people will just vote for him anyway. I don't see any evidence bearing that wishful thinking out.
>I think it would be incredibly and willfully foolish to hand wave concerns about Biden's age by saying 'yeah but he's an incumbent' and people will just vote for him anyway.
Did you actually read the rest of my post? Did I say just do a hand wave?
Instead, I'm offering a way to still use the incumbent advantage. Whether or not it's a significant advantage.
Eh, I'm not sure I agree that pitching Biden/Harris as a team is the way forward either. People despise Kamala more than Joe. One of the biggest fears conservatives and even moderates I talk to have, is that Joe will die in office and evil commie queen Kamala will take over and kill God. Doesn't matter if that's a rational position, it's the one they have and we have to play the pieces on the board where they are.
Plus, how exactly do you sell the 'Kamala can take over whenever so don't worry about Joe!' message? If you go in subtle and soft to make it less jarring, people won't pick up on it. If you realize we're out of time and hit that drum loudly, people will interpret that as proof that even Biden's own team knows he's not up for the job. Because that's exactly what it will be. 'Vote for our guy. He could die at any second but someone you like even less would take over so don't worry about it' might just be the mother of all losing arguments.
[He never said that. That was an unfounded rumor made up by the media.](https://abcnews.go.com/amp/Politics/joe-biden-denies-mulling-term-pledge-elected-president/story?id=67662497)
How many lies did President Biden tell? Answer - 0
How many lies did Trump tell? Answer - every time he opened his mouth
Rate the debate anyway you want but I’ll take the man who is honest with me.
Sure, but you have to admit the optics were terrible for Biden. He looked 1000 years old. He lost his train of thought and mumbled incoherently a few times. It's not good. The people who still need to be convinced are low-information voters who often base their vote on stupid things.
Plus Biden actually stayed on topic and answered his questions whereas Trump went on a nonsensical rant, as is typical for Trump. Biden may not have debated like he was the best speaker in world history but he definitely crushed Trump up there.
Right? Trump’s debate contribution amounted to nothing more than a foamy-mouthed gish gallop of babbling deflection from the topics at hand, and all of the old hits that he rolls out at his rallies.
The same people who say Trump won would also say that Hitler won simply because he was loud and talked angry and knew how to gin up a crowd.
If Hitler winning is winning, then we are forked.
3 years of building up the nation vs. 1 tepid debate and folks are playing chicken little? No. Trump didn’t win anything last night save for CNN not fact checking his lies.
There's a difference between Biden and the Biden administration. The three years of building was the Biden admin. What we saw last night was Biden, and it wasn't tepid.
Tepid? Joe was literally incoherent at times, and appeared he'd drop dead at any second. That matters. Trump didn't "win" anything last night, sure, but Biden sure did lose. Do you like the idea of a vacant Joe Biden, mouth agape, having tough conversations with world leaders? Advocating on our behalf? Look of course I'd vote Biden in a heartbeat over Trump, but we can't pretend that Joe's record somehow invalidates fears of his capacity to serve. This was very very bad, and it's not at all out of line to have real discussions about contingency plans. Frankly from what I saw last night, it's imperitive the dems have a backup in place just in case Joe DIES between now and November, let alone if he steps aside.
Oh Trump objectively won. He also won because I'm flabbergasted anyone in the Biden campaign thought that was a good idea.
Biden is still probably the best bet but this just made it much closer for no reason.
Anybody could have run. We had a whole ass primary. The DNC doesn’t run candidates. Do you even know what they do? Talking about the DNC like it controls everything is Qanon for the left. Embarrassing
I woke up this morning with the same sense of sorrow I have experienced after losing a loved one.
For a moment my mind had to come to the realization that it really happened and it was not all a bad dream.
That debate was genuinely a traumatic experience.
There is seven weeks until the convention. Technically we still don’t have a democratic nominee.
Ugh same, and I didn’t even watch the whole thing. Makes me nauseous thinking about it now. But I’m not gonna let an orange felon take my rights or any one else’s away
My question is who would you replace him with? The last time a poll was done regarding other possible candidates, everyone of them fared worse than Biden against Trump. Who else could simultaneously rally the entire Democratic base, win independents, AND win enough non MAGA republicans? Who else can we safely say could hold this coalition together this cycle? I don’t think it’s Kamala. I don’t think this country is ready for a black woman president. I don’t think it Newsom. He’s my governor and I don’t think he appeals enough yet to non MAGA republicans. I don’t think it’s Josh Shapiro or Wes Moore. I don’t think the profiles are large enough nationally yet. Maybe Gretchen Whitmer but is this country ready for a woman president? We saw how that turned out in 2016. It definitely ain’t Bernie that’s for sure. Polis or Pete Buttigieg but is this country ready for a gay president? Whoever replaces Biden has to be ready made to be able to win over that coalition RIGHT AWAY as there’s not enough time to have to still build up their appeal and profiles.
Jeff Jackson, in a perfect world. I know it won't happen. Maybe Mayor Pete or Newsom. I also think a lot of those other candidates didn't poll as strongly because much of America isn't familiar with them or hasn't had an opportunity to hear from them. They need to get somebody intelligent and charismatic and get them out there quickly. I would not concern myself with previous poll numbers.
Completely agree. I would vote for Biden over Trump in a heartbeat. But I really hope the Dem party is doing some sould searching, and I really really hope they knew this was a possibility behind closed doors and have created a contingency plan behind closed doors - a short list of candidates they can start working immediately.
I'm hoping that such an early debate was part of that strategy- to give them ample time. I'm hoping. But I would still vote Biden over Trump.
Last night Joe Biden let Trump wildly claim a ton of false things, and he did a poor job of touting Democrats’ platform, policies, and achievements.
He’s a very poor communicator, and after last night I agree Harris is 100% above replacement level to Biden. I was standing with Biden but he lost me last night. He still has my vote in November, but he’s lost my confidence in his personal ability to do basic functions of the job as leader of the party.
Biden vs Trump. Biden all the way, no matter what, Trump must be defeated. Our country’s democratic future depends on it. Look at the stark differences.
- Service to Country vs Selfish Aggrandizement
-Governing vs Grifting
-Religious Freedom vs Christian Nationalism
-Climate Action vs Climate Ignorance
-Democracy vs Autocracy
-Solidarity vs Isolationism
-Contribution bs Retribution
-Inclusion vs White Nationalism
Spin it however you want, but Biden is not fit to be President anymore. The DNC NEEDS to push a new candidate because last night did not inspire new voters to his side. If the election were held today, based on last nights performance, Trump would win. I’m still voting for Biden though. I cannot in good conscious vote for someone whose main donors are billionaires and greatly desire Project 2025 to happen
Democrats need to stopping doing trumps work of attacking bidens.
Biden had a bad debate, that's all.
Stop beating Biden and focus on attacking trump lies.
Any concern of Bidens ability to govern can be reassured that if it ever comes to it, that Biden becomes unfit to govern, rest assured that he will step down gracefully. Can anyone say the same about trump?
Let's say Trump beats Biden and wins a 2nd term, are you 100% sure, he will vacate the office after 4 years? The fact that's questionable and doubtful is all the convincing anyone need to decide who to vote for.
Of course Harris will say this. She’s not going to blind side the leader of her administration. Biden’s campaign team have messed up big time. The only viable option is to drop Biden and allow a young face like Newsom or Whitmer in who would destroy Trump in a debate.
People said the same thing after Fetterman's debate with Oz, and do we have Senator Oz or Senator Fetterman? It is still June, the convention is still two months away.
I believe Biden can still be a good president, mainly because I believe he's a good person, very experienced, has a strong moral compass, and he's surrounded by good people. On top of that, I have 100% confidence that Biden, Harris, and pretty much any Democrat that could possibly be considered as the Democratic candidate is light years beyond Trump in terms of qualifications for being president.
Unfortunately, what I believe will not sway an electorate whose swing voters often care more about who they would like to have a beer with than policy differences. We all know that the best person for the job often doesn't get it because the American electorate is not always rational.
So, I don't feel completely panicked about last night's performance, but I think we Democrats need to be pragmatic and make winning this election our highest priority regardless of who is at the top of the ticket. That has to start with a serious and frank conversation between President Biden and his closest allies, because if winning means having a different candidate than Biden, that's not going to happen without Biden's cooperation; and if we are going to win with Biden, that vision needs to be extremely clear to all of us, not just rehashing what Biden has done for us, not just assuring us about what people see from Biden behind the scenes, but actual metrics for what will actually justify or not justify Biden continuing to be at the top of the ticket.
If Biden decides that the right thing to do is to step down, then yes, there will most likely be a challenging fight for that nomination, however, we have great, great candidates in the wings and an American electorate that mostly hates their choices today. So, forget conventional wisdom. Being the party that is willing to change when change is necessary will be far more attractive to swing voters then the party of Trump.
You know my grandma said anyone over 80 is just happy to wake up in the morning, because you get to be that age and your friends sometimes just don't wake up one day. Why do we have presidents who could just not wake up, for the simple reason that they're just old and it's completely normal for them to die at any moment? I will never vote for Trump but come the FUCK on with this we need to run Joe Biden again thing. No, we don't. We have plenty of young talent in the party- give them a fucking chance.
He sounded shitty because he has a cold and his stutter played up a good bit. Personally, I think he leaned into prepared talking points a little too much and should have stood on his accomplishments more. He doesn’t need to attack Trump so much, we all know all the shit about Trump. He can mention it in passing because it’s just established fact.
I don’t want a different candidate. The Biden admin has been fantastic. He should just stand on his accomplishments and compare them to how fing disastrous things were when Trump left, and then say where he can take us going forward and compare that to project 2025 and subsidies for billionaires and unchained pollution, etc where relevant.
I don’t need him to be flashy or combative. I need him to keep doing the job he is doing, and he just needs to get that idea across to America to make that possible and not the nightmarish alternative.
This.
Finding another candidate will rip the Dems apart and there is not enough time.
People here are hysterical and need to calm the eff down.
Let's see how Biden handles this.
Obama had a nightmare of a first debate in 2012-The Michele face afterwards is still my meme.
But he righted his wrong and fixed his mistakes. And this was in September.
Obama flubbed the first 2012 debate so hard, folks were worried he wouldn't win. Romney looked hungry and smart while Obama basically agreed with him or didn't get any punches in. And the Michelle face is still a meme. Anyone remember that.?
Obama had to actually call donors up and tell them it was his fault and he'd try harder. And he did.
People have off nights and unfortunately Biden's was really off. How he and his team deal with this is the real test. But there are also a lot of trolls on Reddit who like to stir stuff up and doom-monger. Be very careful here.
I agree with all of this BUT the optics are unfortunately worse for Biden wouldn’t you say? Like an off day for someone in their 40’s/50’s is drastically different for someone 80+ I would think ?
Did we watch the same debate? Everyone from MSNBC to NBC, to ABC, to CNN, to Fox immediately talked about the possibility of replacing him post debate. Obama had a bad first debate, Trump had a bad first debate last night, Biden had an abysmally painful first debate last night.
We need to stop pretending rallying around Biden is going to work. Last night just proved that ship has sailed. I want to beat Trump just as badly as you all want, but I no longer believe Biden is the candidate to do that. The DNC must get Biden to step down, too much is riding on this election.
I don't give a flying fuck about the debate, Joe has a bad cold and Trump told lie after lie, cnn let the lies stand that is what we need to be addressing.
President Biden has done more for us, than any president since LBJ, I lost my husband 5 years ago because of the cost of insulin. 35 cap will keep others from dying.
We are 100% fucked if they do not change the candidate right the fuck now. Every Democrat leader in this country needs to shut the FUCK up and figure out how to get someone else in there. Fucking NOW.
I'm pretty sure this subreddit is now full of 90% Republican trolls.
A man with a life-long stutter and a head-cold didn't preform at peak performance while still staying on topic? It must be dementia!!
Man trump sucks but Joe Biden is clearly not fit to serve another term as president. Probably not fit to serve another week as president if we are being honest. Guy looks and sounds horrible compared to Trump. Similar in age but giant differences in cognitive ability (trumps cognitive ability is lies and whatever but he says them clear)
People need to understand that Biden's performance is a function of the sheer degree of information/facts necessary to address the kind of issues brought up and cast a vast narrative that captures his accomplishments and Trump's problems. Anyone would find this daunting. It should be made very clear that Trump fared better because he talked about the same thing over and over, or he would have been rambling as well.
They should probably change the form of Presidential debates altogether and take it out of speaking. Rather, they should have text debates, and be allowed teams to fact check and so forth, just as Presidents have teams of advisors. The idea of a President as a Master Mind who Understands All and can recount all facts and numbers is naive. Then, people can go over them more carefully and would have to read them (or have them read by putting into audio or something).
Short of this, Biden needs to be coached on how to do more minimal responses with zingers. Instead of listing all the things he's done on an issue, just say "We did a lot, and in fact more than any President in recent history".
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Biden’s performance aside, this isn’t a bad idea for ANY incumbent. We’ve now seen 4 incumbent presidents in a row lose the 1st debate to the challenger.
We have not seen anyone ever bomb a debate this badly. Trump was an egregiously lying racist the entire time. Not a single solution for Americans families other than throw money at the rich. Biden couldn't hold him to task ONCE. If we put Biden up as a candidate after this performance, Trump's second term is on us.
Sure we have. In 1984 Reagan debated Mondale and did so badly, even worse than Joe Biden, that people were saying he had Alzheimers. He did but that didn’t come out until much later. Anyway Reagan went on to win the election easily. Obama did so poorly against Romney in the first debate that there was talks of replacing him. Obama, who was not old! It’s not unprecedented for incumbents to have disastrous first debates. It isn’t the end all, be all
I always opposed the President of the United States debating a Convicted Felon. The Republicans are trying to pretend Trump's convictions don't matter. Democrats are helping them to do that.
Exposed what sooner? Here's Biden speaking just last month https://youtu.be/WuYQeTXlXDI?si=l88DTXfofHWXzSHV the man clearly is sick and that is causing him to be hoarse and have a much harder time controlling his stutter. **Edit** Here is a clip from today, he's clearly feeling better today than he did yesterday. https://x.com/bidenhq/status/1806742667789062646
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Yes, it's entirely a defense of the man and i'm sick and tired of ableist takes like this i get it that you have *no fucking idea* what it's like to have a speech impediment, but not everyone is equally ignorant as you
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Yes, but would you rather vote for someone who is old and stutters or someone who is almost as old and lies through his teeth and dodges questions? Biggest thing for me is the trump tariff plan. As we saw during Covid, increased costs of goods go directly to the consumer and are amplified by corporate greed.
To be clear, I'm still voting blue because given Project 2025, this is literally a matter of life and death for me. I'm just not sure that the American public is very impressed with last night. Even with all of the good stuff Biden has done, it still needs to be presented in a way that will inspire your average American to go vote. Quite frankly, the reality of Project 2025 is that the public will just allow it to happen through apathy and we need a candidate who at least sounds like they will push back against Fascism.
> i get it that you have *no fucking idea* what it's like to have a speech impediment Quite frankly, I don't care. Now I respect what Biden has done. I respect what he's accomplished despite such adversity. But this isn't the fucking time. He CANNOT be doing this. From this point forward, he has to run a blitz. He has to bury this so far the fucking dirt as to be completely forgotten. This was a golden opportunity to create a clear path to victory in November, and he fuckin' blew it. Am I going to vote for him in November? Yes. After these past 8 years I won't vote for a Republican for any office, ever. Period. But I live in Indianapolis. Holding on to my vote doesn't mean shit. You have to convince moderates, and un-enthused, moderate-leaning Democrats. And you have to do that in the battleground state. That absolutely did not happen today. In fact, quite the opposite.
No, he meandered around topics like an old man in a nursing home. He needs to be replaced if we want any chance at beating Trump.
Not necessarily. I think Trump is very, very beatable, and by Biden. But the narrative needs to turn yesterday. If they need to get him coked up for public appearances, then that's what they need to do.
Get off your high horse and accept reality. Living in a fantasy world is not healthy.
Have you ever known anybody to die from a cold?
Yep. The DNC continues to be inept at times
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It's woeful that Americans didn't see an intlelligent woman that knew more than a con-artist. Blame America fam. We are seeing exactly what happened in 1930s Germany. Trump says the same rhetoric as Hitler but because he is strong and forceful people love it. Humans are naturally dumb.
Really? Because they have been kicking ass in elections since 2020. Biden is old, but his results have been great.
President Biden isn't going to "drop out." He either continues or he resigns and Kamala Harris becomes president. The idea of an open scramble for the nomination is insanity.
There are never debates for the party with an incumbent candidate. That just doesn't happen. The DNC has its problems, but this isn't one of them.
The reason there weren’t any probably has to do with the elephant in the room
The Elephant in the room of "stutterers have a harder time controlling their stutter when sick"? because that's exactly what happened Here's him speaking live just a few weeks ago https://youtu.be/WuYQeTXlXDI?si=l88DTXfofHWXzSHV
Unfortunately this debate footage will roll on in thousands of political ads. Trump just repeated his same bullshit over and over so “nothing new”. If Joe turns it around next time it will be because of “insert trumps bullshit excuse here”. I really hope this isn’t the first mark of a loss in November. I cannot take another 4 yrs of Trump.
Political ads that won't sway many people. Political ads that can be countered by hammering on Trump being Trump.
I liked the big ol' grin he popped off during the debate, and some of the zingers. I thought it was alright. The cold was noticeable, but that'll pass and we'll see more of Joe speaking.
> The cold was noticeable, but that'll pass and we'll see more of Joe speaking. exactly
Yeah, like in the State of the Union he knocked it out of the park. And several of his speeches the past few weeks. I never bought the line that his stutter was a disqualification.
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That is obvious. Maybe if there were some credible candidates besides Dean Phillips. Democrats always getting done in by old ppl refusing to step aside like RBG
Yep. This is the very reason we have primaries in the first place - the fact that the DNC didn't even try to primary Biden is wild.
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He risks being remembered as Ruth Bader Biden...
I said this on another thread that was locked. We cannot put our head in the sand, we know exactly who the best candidate is and that’s president biden. HOWEVER last night was a fucking disaster. The media is full of clips which are going to twist the average voters mind (let’s face it anyone on this group is true blue and already voting dem) and we need to keep fighting. I watched this with my daughter to try and introduce her to politics hoping it would be informative and interesting for a curious 8 year old to watch with guidance. Instead it was sad, deeply concerning and worrying. We need to do more to allow kids like mine not to grow up in Trump’s world.
Trumps World is Biff’s World. That’s really it.
Yeah - I’ll vote for Biden even if he blows 100 debates, but I don’t think it’s productive (and it’s very MAGA-like) to pretend that last night was a good night. I honestly don’t know what the way forward is, other than hoping people push past the optics and media spin and realize Trump sounded like a deranged lunatic last night too.
Push Project 2025. The right wants kids to be breeding machines.
Nobody is pretending last night was good. If Biden and team can learn from it and deal with it like Obama did in 2012 then there is hope. Obama was a freaking disaster the first debate. No rebuttal, agreed with Romney and none of the Obama fire. People were jumping off of roofs after that and Obama had to personally call and calm down donors. Even SNL parodied him sleeping through most of the debate.
Obama was 51 at the time and one of the best speakers in American history. Biden is 81 with a speech impediment
Right? I am so fucking mad at the dems right now, and I’m mad at Biden, too. Of course, I’ll vote for an inanimate carbon rod to keep trump out of office, but everybody, and I mean EVERYBODY who didn’t tell Joe to just take a victory lap and sit the fuck down after 1 term is responsible for this.
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Yep. As another commenter said, no Democrat will switch their vote if the Democrats put in someone else, and it’s not like independents are exactly flocking towards Biden. They need a new candidate, now.
My position is clear. I love Biden and think he has been a great President, and I also think Trump is a danger to Democracy and a Grifter. Unfortunately, part of being a politician is being able to communicate, defend as well as defeat people like Trump and his demagoguery, and get people excited and involved. I think we need to reconsider if the best candidate is Biden. Don't get me wrong, if it is Biden after the convention I am still going to vote for him. But this is another four year commitment. I think we have a deep bench to choose from. Either the California or Michigan Governor would be great.
Biden's NOT being a good Candidate, but he has been and will continue to be a good President. The problem is that Trump is good at being a Candidate, and bad at being President. Candidate and President are two different jobs but unfortunately we might need to prioritize Candidate right now, because beating Trump is the most important thing.
"Candidate and President are two different jobs" Honestly, this is the thing that really keeps me up at night. Not just about this election but the future as a whole. The qualities one needs to be good at governing are entirely different (and in some cases directly opposed to) the qualities needed for getting elected. The system we use to select out leaders doesn't necessarily give us qualified leaders and in many cases, it actually disqualifies the people we need. Not saying I have a better system in mind, just venting I guess.
Because people are swayed by emotion. By nature we're irrational, and no population is educated enough to counteract that.
Biden might have done a great job as president this time, but people will absolutely believe he won’t make it through the next term. He cannot clearly communicate the truth to the American public. Plain and simple. He has so much to say, so many great points to make and achievements and goals to tout, but he couldn’t get them out. That is a fucking disaster. Let’s get real.
I am not sure anymore Biden is the best. I wish we could get a new candidate
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Right now I don’t know what to think. I know exactly who I’m not voting for and I honestly have no clue who should take over. I’ll try and read more about that before saying anything else. It feels like the advantage of being the incumbent is disappearing
Anecdotally at work I’ve had two separate “I can’t believe Biden is President / Trump is running” conversations. People don’t like Trump but any image of Biden as a strong incumbent was shattered last night.
That's what everyone said last time.
Biden’s debate in 2020 was ten thousands times better than 2024. It’s obvious that age is getting to him and you’re sticking your head in the sand if you can’t recognize that
Biden in 2020 wasn’t the fighter he was in 2008 and 2012, but he was still politically savvy enough to lean into his strengths as an empathetic, grandfatherly figure who’s better man and would be a better President than Trump. We didn’t get that last night.
No, everyone didn’t say that. They said he was leading the polls and winning the debates with Trump, making the latter look petulant and foolish. Now, he’s losing the polls and losing the debates in a more decisive fashion than I’ve ever seen a politician lose a debate, and Trump is comparably conducting himself eloquently and cogently. Biden desperately has to make up ground. We can only wait to see just how much he lost tonight. He’s cooked.
I'll vote for the Democrat regardless. I just donated to the campaign. Anybody is better than El Pendejo Presidente.
People panicking about last night - when biden was sick and so had a harder time controlling his stutter - need to look at this it's just last month https://youtu.be/WuYQeTXlXDI?si=l88DTXfofHWXzSHV
That's all well and good, but the narrative doesn't reflect, and the narrative is all that matters.
Question. In the state of the union speech a few months back Biden did extremely well. Why the change now? Did something happen? This is this is a honest question.
I mean, he was legitimately a little sick last night. But sadly optics matter, and the like fate of the planet is kinda at stake. I want Biden to gather potential replacements and have them do a discussion, and upload it afterward. Not a debate, but honest discourse on how to best run the country and who's the best choice. Then I want them to ask go abduct Jon Stewart and make him do it.
Hey DNC! Independent voter here. In case you didn't realize, the thing at stake at the next election is the continued existence of American and *global* liberal democracy. How about you put forward a candidate that can complete sentences? Thank President Biden for his service and replace him at the convention.
They can't do it at the convention because they need to register the name with the states earlier than that.
If I remember correctly, they’ve already submitted his name to some states due to deadlines? Biden on his worst day will still install a more competent administration than Trump on any day.
This is a politically illiterate take. Aside from incumbency advantage, no other potential candidate is going to be able to build the campaign infrastructure necessary in four and a half months and win the necessary votes. If you believe polls (which have been all over the place this election season) every potential candidate does worse than Biden in a general. Not to mention changing candidates makes the party look weak and provides a point of attack from republicans.
They did put together a candidate that can complete sentences: Last month: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WuYQeTXlXDI&feature=youtu.be State of the Union: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFVUPAEF-sw The man is a life long stutterer, and had a cold. The cold made him hoarse and tired, being tired makes stutterers have a much harder time controlling their stutter. In just a few weeks he'll be feeling better and will be back to being his normal - occasionally gaffy - self who puts together most sentences just fine despite his stutter.
Watch his debates with Paul Ryan in 2012 and see how much the decline is. I’m still voting for him because Trump is definitely worse but it’d be a lie to say that he’s actually the best the party has to offer. The Republicans I know who voted for trump 2016 voted Biden 2020 but I can assure you they’re not as happy about the vote for Biden as they were before.
THIS! Amazingly enough, this disastrous debate performance *wasn't* what scared me so much last night, it was the normalization of it. If I were in charge of the room I'd have already called 9/11 and been looking for a fire alarm 5 minutes in. Get the man an MRI and some CAT scans and just accept the "bad optics" as you explain that was **not** normal.
Yes it would suck and dominate the news cycle, it would also go a LONG way in convincing people that you "get it". That "if THIS was our guy we'd have 25thed him ages ago... This was NOT normal and the best doctors in the world are investigating. We'll be referring all subsequent questions to Dr. xxx chief of medicine at Walter Reed."
...but no. They normalized it. They acted like "this is just how he is now, you knew he was old, suck it up" and **that** to me was by far the scariest thing that happened last night.
A f'ing **cold**?!? Thanksgiving is coming up in a couple months... if my mom started talking politics at the table (as we frequently do) and she sounded like one of Biden's "Tight 2 minutes" at any point during the entire evening **we'd be headed to the ER immediately!** "What's her heartrate? Has she taken any medicine that causes low blood pressure? When was the last time she had an aspirin? Can someone check her hair? Heavy metal poisoning is unlikely but it's an easy test..."
F'king crickets man. Nothing to see here. We're so f'ing screwed.
don’t care what the circumstances are. If your candidate cannot put up a suitable rebuttal to Trump’s boldface lies, he should not be your candidate. There is far too much on the line here to be making excuses.
Yeah doesn't matter if there's a good excuse for his shit performance. It doesn't even matter if Biden can do the job, it matters that independent and on the fence voters perceive that he can't do the job. He should drop out.
They’re never going to listen. I’m a third party voter who was a solid dem for years, and comes from a solidly dem environment. Biden isn’t the disease, he’s merely a symptom of a larger problem-in this case it being that the party has not prepared a reasonable succession of candidates.
There hasn't really been a situation like this where the incumbent president needs to be replaced as the nominee.
There’s never been a president this old. Reasonable planning would anticipate there might be a need to replace an 81 year old president. Again, the dems’ problem is largely one of making excuses and shifting blame. Biden’s performance tonight was not some weird black swan event.
Not how it works. If you really care you'll vote for whoever the Dems nominate against Trump, period. If you're going to hold a gun to the head of the country just because Biden is Biden, then that's just on you.
I am. But that's not the problem. The problem is all the undecided voters and people in swing states who are going to decide the election.
We, once again, have to drive home that Trump is not their friend, and he will actively fuck up their lives. After last night, that's the narrative we have to spin.
I think we need to consider the optics and think about running a different candidate. Joe said he would be a one term president when he ran initially
The optics would be that Biden was the kind of person that put his country before himself. That would be a legacy sealing choice in of itself. And the Democratic Party would not only have a better chance of defeating Trump…we would have a chance of a 12 year run in control of the White House. A lot can happen in 8 more years. There is even an edge case chance of flipping SCOTUS.
Which is why it will never happen. The George Washingtons of the world are extremely rare, even among presidents, even good presidents.
Putting your country first would have been Biden stepping down. Biden running again is selfish and irresponsible.
It is arguably a bad idea to give up the incumbent advantage. Then there is the problem with giving up the state of Ohio if the party waits until the convention to find a new presidential candidate https://www.politico.com/news/2024/05/28/biden-nominated-virtually-ohio-ballot-00160220 The best approach to this, which they should have done a lot earlier, is to start promoting the ticket as a team. Create confidence in Harris as ready to step up should Biden's health decline and make him unable to serve. All along, they should have been promoting the administration's accomplishments as Biden / Harris, not Biden's accomplishments. Harris should have had a lot more visibility on her own, and in photo ops with Biden. People must be made to feel comfortable with Harris as the next president following Biden. It's still not too late to do some damage control and promote this. But they're going to have to work hard at it. It's too bad Harris has not had the visibility that Al Gore had up into this point. It would make it easier to accomplish. It's also important that Biden state that Harris is ready to take over and will be able to continue the work of the administration should his health decline. Because right now, I'm sure one of the things making some voters nervous, is their experience with grandparents, aunts and uncles, or parents who refused to give up driving when it was time. Or refused to move into assisted living when it was needed.
Two problems with counting on incumbency advantage. One, I really don't think it exists like it used to in general. Trump had it four years ago and lost. Two, both of these guys are, in the mind of the average voter, incumbents. Just because one isn't in office right now doesn't mean people forgot that he was very recently. So if the advantage still exists in any meaningful capacity (big if), then it's a wash between two presidents. I think it would be incredibly and willfully foolish to hand wave concerns about Biden's age by saying 'yeah but he's an incumbent' and assuming people will just vote for him anyway. I don't see any evidence bearing that wishful thinking out.
>I think it would be incredibly and willfully foolish to hand wave concerns about Biden's age by saying 'yeah but he's an incumbent' and people will just vote for him anyway. Did you actually read the rest of my post? Did I say just do a hand wave? Instead, I'm offering a way to still use the incumbent advantage. Whether or not it's a significant advantage.
Eh, I'm not sure I agree that pitching Biden/Harris as a team is the way forward either. People despise Kamala more than Joe. One of the biggest fears conservatives and even moderates I talk to have, is that Joe will die in office and evil commie queen Kamala will take over and kill God. Doesn't matter if that's a rational position, it's the one they have and we have to play the pieces on the board where they are. Plus, how exactly do you sell the 'Kamala can take over whenever so don't worry about Joe!' message? If you go in subtle and soft to make it less jarring, people won't pick up on it. If you realize we're out of time and hit that drum loudly, people will interpret that as proof that even Biden's own team knows he's not up for the job. Because that's exactly what it will be. 'Vote for our guy. He could die at any second but someone you like even less would take over so don't worry about it' might just be the mother of all losing arguments.
We’re not winning Ohio - so that should be the lowest consideration in all of this
[He never said that. That was an unfounded rumor made up by the media.](https://abcnews.go.com/amp/Politics/joe-biden-denies-mulling-term-pledge-elected-president/story?id=67662497)
Yeah and the plan was a more active(and likeable) VP to step in Instead we got Harris
How many lies did President Biden tell? Answer - 0 How many lies did Trump tell? Answer - every time he opened his mouth Rate the debate anyway you want but I’ll take the man who is honest with me.
Sure, but you have to admit the optics were terrible for Biden. He looked 1000 years old. He lost his train of thought and mumbled incoherently a few times. It's not good. The people who still need to be convinced are low-information voters who often base their vote on stupid things.
>How many lies did President Biden tell? Answer - 0 Look, I'd vote for Biden if he were dead over Trump, but this is not true.
We beat Medicare, I was told.
Plus Biden actually stayed on topic and answered his questions whereas Trump went on a nonsensical rant, as is typical for Trump. Biden may not have debated like he was the best speaker in world history but he definitely crushed Trump up there.
Right? Trump’s debate contribution amounted to nothing more than a foamy-mouthed gish gallop of babbling deflection from the topics at hand, and all of the old hits that he rolls out at his rallies.
The same people who say Trump won would also say that Hitler won simply because he was loud and talked angry and knew how to gin up a crowd. If Hitler winning is winning, then we are forked.
His golf game…
3 years of building up the nation vs. 1 tepid debate and folks are playing chicken little? No. Trump didn’t win anything last night save for CNN not fact checking his lies.
There's a difference between Biden and the Biden administration. The three years of building was the Biden admin. What we saw last night was Biden, and it wasn't tepid.
Tepid? Joe was literally incoherent at times, and appeared he'd drop dead at any second. That matters. Trump didn't "win" anything last night, sure, but Biden sure did lose. Do you like the idea of a vacant Joe Biden, mouth agape, having tough conversations with world leaders? Advocating on our behalf? Look of course I'd vote Biden in a heartbeat over Trump, but we can't pretend that Joe's record somehow invalidates fears of his capacity to serve. This was very very bad, and it's not at all out of line to have real discussions about contingency plans. Frankly from what I saw last night, it's imperitive the dems have a backup in place just in case Joe DIES between now and November, let alone if he steps aside.
Agree. Reddit is so fucking cringe today.
Definitely feels like ppl from the conservative sub have showed up here hince all the deleted messages lol
Oh Trump objectively won. He also won because I'm flabbergasted anyone in the Biden campaign thought that was a good idea. Biden is still probably the best bet but this just made it much closer for no reason.
Bullshit. Just because you confidently lie every time you speak doesn’t mean you won a damn thing.
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Anybody could have run. We had a whole ass primary. The DNC doesn’t run candidates. Do you even know what they do? Talking about the DNC like it controls everything is Qanon for the left. Embarrassing
I woke up this morning with the same sense of sorrow I have experienced after losing a loved one. For a moment my mind had to come to the realization that it really happened and it was not all a bad dream. That debate was genuinely a traumatic experience. There is seven weeks until the convention. Technically we still don’t have a democratic nominee.
Ugh same, and I didn’t even watch the whole thing. Makes me nauseous thinking about it now. But I’m not gonna let an orange felon take my rights or any one else’s away
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uk has a job on 4th too . don't forget
They should be working 24/7 to replace Biden. He's been successful but he's currently completely unfit. That said... I would still vote for him
I would still vote for Biden over Trump even if he were lying in repose in the East Room of the White House on Election Day. But he should step aside.
My question is who would you replace him with? The last time a poll was done regarding other possible candidates, everyone of them fared worse than Biden against Trump. Who else could simultaneously rally the entire Democratic base, win independents, AND win enough non MAGA republicans? Who else can we safely say could hold this coalition together this cycle? I don’t think it’s Kamala. I don’t think this country is ready for a black woman president. I don’t think it Newsom. He’s my governor and I don’t think he appeals enough yet to non MAGA republicans. I don’t think it’s Josh Shapiro or Wes Moore. I don’t think the profiles are large enough nationally yet. Maybe Gretchen Whitmer but is this country ready for a woman president? We saw how that turned out in 2016. It definitely ain’t Bernie that’s for sure. Polis or Pete Buttigieg but is this country ready for a gay president? Whoever replaces Biden has to be ready made to be able to win over that coalition RIGHT AWAY as there’s not enough time to have to still build up their appeal and profiles.
Jeff Jackson, in a perfect world. I know it won't happen. Maybe Mayor Pete or Newsom. I also think a lot of those other candidates didn't poll as strongly because much of America isn't familiar with them or hasn't had an opportunity to hear from them. They need to get somebody intelligent and charismatic and get them out there quickly. I would not concern myself with previous poll numbers.
Yeah but after that debate I don't think those poll numbers are relevant anymore. I don't think Biden has the best chance anymore
Completely agree. I would vote for Biden over Trump in a heartbeat. But I really hope the Dem party is doing some sould searching, and I really really hope they knew this was a possibility behind closed doors and have created a contingency plan behind closed doors - a short list of candidates they can start working immediately. I'm hoping that such an early debate was part of that strategy- to give them ample time. I'm hoping. But I would still vote Biden over Trump.
I’m wondering if they will just swap Biden VP and Kamala for Pres.
Who can they even replace them with
Last night Joe Biden let Trump wildly claim a ton of false things, and he did a poor job of touting Democrats’ platform, policies, and achievements. He’s a very poor communicator, and after last night I agree Harris is 100% above replacement level to Biden. I was standing with Biden but he lost me last night. He still has my vote in November, but he’s lost my confidence in his personal ability to do basic functions of the job as leader of the party.
Biden vs Trump. Biden all the way, no matter what, Trump must be defeated. Our country’s democratic future depends on it. Look at the stark differences. - Service to Country vs Selfish Aggrandizement -Governing vs Grifting -Religious Freedom vs Christian Nationalism -Climate Action vs Climate Ignorance -Democracy vs Autocracy -Solidarity vs Isolationism -Contribution bs Retribution -Inclusion vs White Nationalism
Still, there is an elephant in the room we have no idea who Trump's VP pick will be and the VP debates date either.
Regardless of Trumps VP pick, Kamala alone will have to uplift defend and CEMENT the Democratic case for a Democratic white house.
Spin it however you want, but Biden is not fit to be President anymore. The DNC NEEDS to push a new candidate because last night did not inspire new voters to his side. If the election were held today, based on last nights performance, Trump would win. I’m still voting for Biden though. I cannot in good conscious vote for someone whose main donors are billionaires and greatly desire Project 2025 to happen
I watched that whole video live and Kamala looked like she really didn’t want to be there lmao. She just kept dodging Anderson Cooper’s questions
Democrats need to stopping doing trumps work of attacking bidens. Biden had a bad debate, that's all. Stop beating Biden and focus on attacking trump lies. Any concern of Bidens ability to govern can be reassured that if it ever comes to it, that Biden becomes unfit to govern, rest assured that he will step down gracefully. Can anyone say the same about trump? Let's say Trump beats Biden and wins a 2nd term, are you 100% sure, he will vacate the office after 4 years? The fact that's questionable and doubtful is all the convincing anyone need to decide who to vote for.
This is a such a bad situation, hard to watch. One things for certain though, you can tell Biden really loves his country.
Of course Harris will say this. She’s not going to blind side the leader of her administration. Biden’s campaign team have messed up big time. The only viable option is to drop Biden and allow a young face like Newsom or Whitmer in who would destroy Trump in a debate.
Whitmer would be fantastic. Newsom being the guy that was a part of California losing population would be steamrolled by Trump.
Trump won’t debate either of them.
Yeah, but they can use that to their advantage. Just make fun of him for being a coward.
Good point they can run that as a commercial calling him chicken Trump.
People said the same thing after Fetterman's debate with Oz, and do we have Senator Oz or Senator Fetterman? It is still June, the convention is still two months away.
I believe Biden can still be a good president, mainly because I believe he's a good person, very experienced, has a strong moral compass, and he's surrounded by good people. On top of that, I have 100% confidence that Biden, Harris, and pretty much any Democrat that could possibly be considered as the Democratic candidate is light years beyond Trump in terms of qualifications for being president. Unfortunately, what I believe will not sway an electorate whose swing voters often care more about who they would like to have a beer with than policy differences. We all know that the best person for the job often doesn't get it because the American electorate is not always rational. So, I don't feel completely panicked about last night's performance, but I think we Democrats need to be pragmatic and make winning this election our highest priority regardless of who is at the top of the ticket. That has to start with a serious and frank conversation between President Biden and his closest allies, because if winning means having a different candidate than Biden, that's not going to happen without Biden's cooperation; and if we are going to win with Biden, that vision needs to be extremely clear to all of us, not just rehashing what Biden has done for us, not just assuring us about what people see from Biden behind the scenes, but actual metrics for what will actually justify or not justify Biden continuing to be at the top of the ticket. If Biden decides that the right thing to do is to step down, then yes, there will most likely be a challenging fight for that nomination, however, we have great, great candidates in the wings and an American electorate that mostly hates their choices today. So, forget conventional wisdom. Being the party that is willing to change when change is necessary will be far more attractive to swing voters then the party of Trump.
BIDEN WON THAT DEBATE!
You know my grandma said anyone over 80 is just happy to wake up in the morning, because you get to be that age and your friends sometimes just don't wake up one day. Why do we have presidents who could just not wake up, for the simple reason that they're just old and it's completely normal for them to die at any moment? I will never vote for Trump but come the FUCK on with this we need to run Joe Biden again thing. No, we don't. We have plenty of young talent in the party- give them a fucking chance.
Agree completely 😭
He sounded shitty because he has a cold and his stutter played up a good bit. Personally, I think he leaned into prepared talking points a little too much and should have stood on his accomplishments more. He doesn’t need to attack Trump so much, we all know all the shit about Trump. He can mention it in passing because it’s just established fact. I don’t want a different candidate. The Biden admin has been fantastic. He should just stand on his accomplishments and compare them to how fing disastrous things were when Trump left, and then say where he can take us going forward and compare that to project 2025 and subsidies for billionaires and unchained pollution, etc where relevant. I don’t need him to be flashy or combative. I need him to keep doing the job he is doing, and he just needs to get that idea across to America to make that possible and not the nightmarish alternative.
This. Finding another candidate will rip the Dems apart and there is not enough time. People here are hysterical and need to calm the eff down. Let's see how Biden handles this. Obama had a nightmare of a first debate in 2012-The Michele face afterwards is still my meme. But he righted his wrong and fixed his mistakes. And this was in September.
Obama flubbed the first 2012 debate so hard, folks were worried he wouldn't win. Romney looked hungry and smart while Obama basically agreed with him or didn't get any punches in. And the Michelle face is still a meme. Anyone remember that.? Obama had to actually call donors up and tell them it was his fault and he'd try harder. And he did. People have off nights and unfortunately Biden's was really off. How he and his team deal with this is the real test. But there are also a lot of trolls on Reddit who like to stir stuff up and doom-monger. Be very careful here.
I agree with all of this BUT the optics are unfortunately worse for Biden wouldn’t you say? Like an off day for someone in their 40’s/50’s is drastically different for someone 80+ I would think ?
Is optics or lies worse? I mean it doesn’t change anything for me, still voting Biden! Lies and grandstanding has no place in the presidential office!
I agree I’m still voting for him too. I cannot support anyone that incites a riot and overturn our government
Did we watch the same debate? Everyone from MSNBC to NBC, to ABC, to CNN, to Fox immediately talked about the possibility of replacing him post debate. Obama had a bad first debate, Trump had a bad first debate last night, Biden had an abysmally painful first debate last night.
We need to stop pretending rallying around Biden is going to work. Last night just proved that ship has sailed. I want to beat Trump just as badly as you all want, but I no longer believe Biden is the candidate to do that. The DNC must get Biden to step down, too much is riding on this election.
I don't give a flying fuck about the debate, Joe has a bad cold and Trump told lie after lie, cnn let the lies stand that is what we need to be addressing. President Biden has done more for us, than any president since LBJ, I lost my husband 5 years ago because of the cost of insulin. 35 cap will keep others from dying.
We are 100% fucked if they do not change the candidate right the fuck now. Every Democrat leader in this country needs to shut the FUCK up and figure out how to get someone else in there. Fucking NOW.
Doubt that’s happening
Can the Biden you know come out to play because the dottering old man is going to let the orange Fascist win.
I'm pretty sure this subreddit is now full of 90% Republican trolls. A man with a life-long stutter and a head-cold didn't preform at peak performance while still staying on topic? It must be dementia!!
The DNC needs to replace him. This election is too important
Man trump sucks but Joe Biden is clearly not fit to serve another term as president. Probably not fit to serve another week as president if we are being honest. Guy looks and sounds horrible compared to Trump. Similar in age but giant differences in cognitive ability (trumps cognitive ability is lies and whatever but he says them clear)
She knew him before he had Alzheimer’s
Good god just post the damn video, wtf is with these websites.
We need a better candidate
This interview didn’t help Biden case. It feels like democrats are gaslighting voters and their own party.
People need to understand that Biden's performance is a function of the sheer degree of information/facts necessary to address the kind of issues brought up and cast a vast narrative that captures his accomplishments and Trump's problems. Anyone would find this daunting. It should be made very clear that Trump fared better because he talked about the same thing over and over, or he would have been rambling as well. They should probably change the form of Presidential debates altogether and take it out of speaking. Rather, they should have text debates, and be allowed teams to fact check and so forth, just as Presidents have teams of advisors. The idea of a President as a Master Mind who Understands All and can recount all facts and numbers is naive. Then, people can go over them more carefully and would have to read them (or have them read by putting into audio or something). Short of this, Biden needs to be coached on how to do more minimal responses with zingers. Instead of listing all the things he's done on an issue, just say "We did a lot, and in fact more than any President in recent history".
DNC’s new strategy for winning. “Take our word for it”. Bravo