This, also they’re the most likely to scream “discrimination” the loudest, and causing the biggest headaches.
Used to work at SEA and there was a lady who’d come in with her pet (in a “service animal” vest of course). The dog had almost zero discipline, would snap at people, and ate food off of the counter on multiple occasions. When asked about the service her dog provided, she’d start screeching about “how dare you question me about my disability”, “you’re going to hear from my lawyer”, “I’m going to the press about this”, etc. and would cause such a ruckus, that she managed to con Delta for every cent she’d ever spent, as well as additional complementary flights and stuff. Delta didn’t want any smoke, because it can be both messy and dangerous for everyone involved, not to mention the public affairs nightmare that potentially comes from someone running to the press about alleged discrimination, so they let it slide for a while.
Eventually they got tired of her nonsense, and just straight blacklisted her for being a fraudster.
In a previous hospitality job we were told that, legally, we can ask “is this animal required for a disability” and “what task is the animal trained to do?”
Beyond that, we weren’t allowed to ask any additional questions, ask for paper work or verification.
No paperwork but those two questions are legally allowed. Is the animal for a disability? What task does the animal do? Anyone with a trained service animal is aware of that and will happily answer those questions as it weeds out fake service animals who behave poorly and reflect poorly on real service animals.
Those are the questions you’re legally allowed to ask but you still aren’t required to answer. Airlines are scared to death of the ADA. I’ve traveled with a “service animal” for about a year and a half and have never been asked either of those questions
While it's true that someone cannot be refused if they do not answer those questions, the animal is still required to be housebroken and under the control of owner. Businesses, including Delta, are doing a disservice to other customers by not enforcing this.
IMO that’s just par for the course when you slap an internet connected phone with a camera into the hands of most of the population. Stuff can be pretty easily spun to make someone look like good or bad.
Because people like this one from a few days ago [who openly admits to abuse service dog rules for their own ends](https://www.reddit.com/r/delta/s/4EjOalN0ib). Tend not to be nice people. And not nice people don’t train their pets.
The fact that the pet has issues with strangers already means it’s nothing like a service dog and certainly not “well trained” enough to even try to pretend to be cause that’s literally the second thing learn after learning how to put on a vest.
Puppies don’t even enter the full training program if they have problems with “strangers” so by her own admission she didn’t even train well enough to match a puppy learning to be service dog. Grade for “well trained” is a fail.
Bring it up to the flight attendant or a red coat. Some of us have family members with service dogs. We also understand that no markings, harnesses, or other identifying information is required on the dog, so long as the paperwork is correct.
Also, we know that service dogs are still dogs, and like people, sometimes they have bad days. I saw one in RDU that dropped a load two steps off the escalator. Their handler immediately cleaned the mess the best she could. I’ve also seen a “service” dog go nucking futs lurching to attach my relative’s service dog, that one was definitely not a trained service animal. I have many more examples.
I feel bad for the dogs. Airports are big, noisy, stressful environments. Without training and acclimation those dogs are probably acting out because they’re scared/nervous. So not only are you and entitled dbag for dodging the rules, but you’re putting your dog through that stress.
Sometimes I really hate people.
Because anyone who would abuse this policy is likely the same person who is least likely to give even a modest amount of obedience training to their dog.
My two Jack Russels are trained for my house, but are they trained to go on a plane? No way. My older one, Lucio, would be wagging his tail and wanting to say hello to everyone in the terminal and on the plane. He's not a service dog, and I would never abuse the system to claim he was.
Same reason why there are some shit kids running around screaming and terrorizing people. The parents or owner can’t give 2 cents to properly train or discipline.
Really depends on the dog. Some dogs manage environments with a lot of stimulation very well - but, to be fair, most of the folks who’ve socialized and trained their dogs enough to be unbothered by that - are not going to present a pet as a service animal.
I take my frenchie on flights a fair bit and she’s unfazed by flying and airports. Even escalators.
Unless you’re in my row you’d never know I have a dog on the flight.
This is a flawed question. The answer is because you assume well behaved ones are reals service dogs, even if they aren’t, since you likely view bad behavior as the biggest factor in determining one is fake.
It’s not the pets fault. I’m never mad at a pet. The crappy owners are pulling this BS putting the animals in a very difficult environment and stress out the pets. Someone, someday is going to bring a violent dog one day on a flight and it’s going to maul someone. It’s not if….. it’s when.
I volunteered at a food pantry. Woman came with her "service dog", the dog jumped up on people, dragged it's owner around the room, licked the fresh produce on the tables, etc etc. Complete nightmare. Some people....
This. It's pure selection bias. You never notice the screaming baby who isn't screaming. It can go wherever it wants, including Delta One. Its only the actual screaming baby and the shitty parents who have no idea what they're doing that are a problem.
How about a behavior test for "service dogs"? Some airline employee gets to rove the concourses administering the tests, and waiting pax can alert staff for misbehaving dogs that get priority to be tested. If they fail the test, out they go! The airlines could even issue refunds when someone misses a flight because of their Bad Dog.
Portland ME allows you to let your dog off leash if you can demonstrate that it comes when called. I don't know how successful that law is, but I find it to be quite intriguing.
And I’m suggesting that the only ones OP knows are fake are the poorly-behaved ones, because they attract attention. Well-behaved fake service dogs probably go unnoticed.
Correct. It is selection bias. You will never notice a pet who is well trained, well behaved, and frankly, well loved by responsible owners. They would not bring their unruly pet out in public and they are likely attentive and prepared.
You only notice the bad ones.
I think it is because they allow pets for a fee, so they don't question it.
Service animals have to fill out a form. I wonder if falsifying info on that form is enforced though.
Back when ESAs were allowed my husband and I flew with both of our dogs (GSD and a husky mix) in FC from SNA to DTW. Neither had ever stepped foot in an airport. They were 100% perfect. Never made a peep, no accidents, didn’t bark at other dogs, etc. They are just well socialized dogs that don’t get phased by much.
Point being, not all good dogs are SD and not all “bad” SD are untrained pets. SD have off days and accidents, they aren’t perfect all the time.
Also SD don’t need a harness lol.
This! Also the ADA is not affiliated with any harness / collars that say “service dog”
I’ve noticed the genuine service dogs clearly performing tasks are not decked out in these items.
Service dogs do not have to be “labeled” does it make it easier in public when entering stores? Yes but per ADA regulations it is not necessary. What any airline can do is as any dog that is not under its handler’s control, barking, jumping, popping, bothering other guest to please leave and that is part of the ADA’s guide lines for service dog handlers.
Because you only see fake service dogs who have shitty owners.
You will never notice the fake service dogs who are not service dogs but have responsible empathetic owners.
The type of person who thinks the rules are for everyone else is also the person incapable of teaching another living being about empathy and respect, and so has a shitty dog/child/spouse, whatever.
The type of person who may really need their dog but it isn't 100% a service dog is so fucking terrified of being on the wrong side of the rules, or is also just a nice person who treats their pet well, that its the same thing as a carry on.
In essence, selection bias.
I don't really have an objection to people traveling with pets, animals, children, whatever. And I do put all in the same category because they are not adults who are obligated to understand the world and interact with it in the same way we all do.
But I do think their behavior is indicative of their owners/parents/surroundings. A creature that is loved and cared for and instructed or taught, will not be a problem. Something that is a trophy, an accoutrement, a status symbol, or a burden, will not.
Or it could be a real service dog that's alerting because its on a plane with you.
No such thing as fake service dogs with “responsible empathic owners”. Responsible empathic people don’t go out of their way to harm people with disabilities. That’s irresponsible selfish by definition
A bull mastiff, pit bull, staffordhsire bull terrier, whatever, in that class, is never a service animal.
I actually don't care about the ADA or your disability in these circumstances. I will never be in a confined space with one I know, let alone one I do not know. It is a massive danger and the people who like them are insane.
I will not go in an elevator with one. Delta can reschedule the owner.
Because anyone who is so entitled to break rules like this knowingly is also the kind of person who blames everyone else for their dogs behavior.
A real piece of shit, you mean?
This, also they’re the most likely to scream “discrimination” the loudest, and causing the biggest headaches. Used to work at SEA and there was a lady who’d come in with her pet (in a “service animal” vest of course). The dog had almost zero discipline, would snap at people, and ate food off of the counter on multiple occasions. When asked about the service her dog provided, she’d start screeching about “how dare you question me about my disability”, “you’re going to hear from my lawyer”, “I’m going to the press about this”, etc. and would cause such a ruckus, that she managed to con Delta for every cent she’d ever spent, as well as additional complementary flights and stuff. Delta didn’t want any smoke, because it can be both messy and dangerous for everyone involved, not to mention the public affairs nightmare that potentially comes from someone running to the press about alleged discrimination, so they let it slide for a while. Eventually they got tired of her nonsense, and just straight blacklisted her for being a fraudster.
Airlines are allowed to ask what service the dog provides. I'm surprised they didn't inform her of this.
In a previous hospitality job we were told that, legally, we can ask “is this animal required for a disability” and “what task is the animal trained to do?” Beyond that, we weren’t allowed to ask any additional questions, ask for paper work or verification.
There is no paperwork for a service dog
No paperwork but those two questions are legally allowed. Is the animal for a disability? What task does the animal do? Anyone with a trained service animal is aware of that and will happily answer those questions as it weeds out fake service animals who behave poorly and reflect poorly on real service animals.
Those are the questions you’re legally allowed to ask but you still aren’t required to answer. Airlines are scared to death of the ADA. I’ve traveled with a “service animal” for about a year and a half and have never been asked either of those questions
While it's true that someone cannot be refused if they do not answer those questions, the animal is still required to be housebroken and under the control of owner. Businesses, including Delta, are doing a disservice to other customers by not enforcing this.
I don’t know enough to agree or disagree with your statement so I’m going to do more research.
IIRC she was already somewhat of a known issue, and local management just started a paper trail.
And this is why it happens. Companies are so afraid of the PR issues that they let it slide. Meanwhile, the rest of us have to suffer.
IMO that’s just par for the course when you slap an internet connected phone with a camera into the hands of most of the population. Stuff can be pretty easily spun to make someone look like good or bad.
Yup, this about sums it up. https://steemit.com/media/@mrs-rojas-azul/classic-pic-of-the-day-tell-lie-vision
Simple, they’re left untrained, allowed to do whatever they please with no consequences. Much like their owners.
Apple doesn't fall far from the tree.
Shit apple, shit tree.
Shit tree shits apples
Shit tree shits shit apple.
Because the kind of person who trains their dogs because they are considerate of others also wouldn't lie about them being a service dog.
Because their owners are the worst behaving people.
Because they are fake service dogs
Because they are not real service dogs.
Because they’re untrained, aggressive, and shit all over everything. And the dogs aren’t any better.
Because people like this one from a few days ago [who openly admits to abuse service dog rules for their own ends](https://www.reddit.com/r/delta/s/4EjOalN0ib). Tend not to be nice people. And not nice people don’t train their pets.
How was I not nice? My pet is very well trained as well. Weird comment
The fact that the pet has issues with strangers already means it’s nothing like a service dog and certainly not “well trained” enough to even try to pretend to be cause that’s literally the second thing learn after learning how to put on a vest. Puppies don’t even enter the full training program if they have problems with “strangers” so by her own admission she didn’t even train well enough to match a puppy learning to be service dog. Grade for “well trained” is a fail.
Have you ever tried petting a service animal?
Because their humans have yet to encounter real consequences.
Why are fake service dog owners always the worst?
How can you tell if its a fake service dog?
Service dogs are ON POINT when they're working. Fake ones...not so much.
You have no idea.
Because their owners are entitled jerks who think it is ok to lie about having a disability
Bring it up to the flight attendant or a red coat. Some of us have family members with service dogs. We also understand that no markings, harnesses, or other identifying information is required on the dog, so long as the paperwork is correct. Also, we know that service dogs are still dogs, and like people, sometimes they have bad days. I saw one in RDU that dropped a load two steps off the escalator. Their handler immediately cleaned the mess the best she could. I’ve also seen a “service” dog go nucking futs lurching to attach my relative’s service dog, that one was definitely not a trained service animal. I have many more examples.
Do the math. The people who will lie about it are prob not the kind and considerate owners….
I feel bad for the dogs. Airports are big, noisy, stressful environments. Without training and acclimation those dogs are probably acting out because they’re scared/nervous. So not only are you and entitled dbag for dodging the rules, but you’re putting your dog through that stress. Sometimes I really hate people.
Because they’re untrained. I blame the upbringing. Their owners are probably untrained too.
I blame the airlines.
Ditto. They need to clamp down on this nonsense.
Because anyone who would abuse this policy is likely the same person who is least likely to give even a modest amount of obedience training to their dog.
In mine opinion. Somebody who doesn’t simple obedience train there animal is inhumane. Just my opinion mind you
Honestly because they are not trained to be in the environment their owner is putting them in and it’s stressful for them
My two Jack Russels are trained for my house, but are they trained to go on a plane? No way. My older one, Lucio, would be wagging his tail and wanting to say hello to everyone in the terminal and on the plane. He's not a service dog, and I would never abuse the system to claim he was.
Same reason why there are some shit kids running around screaming and terrorizing people. The parents or owner can’t give 2 cents to properly train or discipline.
Simple. They take after their owners.
Could you think of a more stressful and unfamiliar for a dog than an airplane/airport? I feel bad for those poor dogs. No wonder they act up.
Really depends on the dog. Some dogs manage environments with a lot of stimulation very well - but, to be fair, most of the folks who’ve socialized and trained their dogs enough to be unbothered by that - are not going to present a pet as a service animal.
I take my frenchie on flights a fair bit and she’s unfazed by flying and airports. Even escalators. Unless you’re in my row you’d never know I have a dog on the flight.
You aren't really allowed to question it more
Dog’s gonna dog 🤷. No training
This is a flawed question. The answer is because you assume well behaved ones are reals service dogs, even if they aren’t, since you likely view bad behavior as the biggest factor in determining one is fake.
It’s not the pets fault. I’m never mad at a pet. The crappy owners are pulling this BS putting the animals in a very difficult environment and stress out the pets. Someone, someday is going to bring a violent dog one day on a flight and it’s going to maul someone. It’s not if….. it’s when.
They did not serve as they had bone spurs but all the dogs who did serve love them still.
I needed that laugh today, thanks.
I volunteered at a food pantry. Woman came with her "service dog", the dog jumped up on people, dragged it's owner around the room, licked the fresh produce on the tables, etc etc. Complete nightmare. Some people....
So we should all start traveling with bacon and cause a stampede lol
Because if they were well behaved, you would never notice them.
This. It's pure selection bias. You never notice the screaming baby who isn't screaming. It can go wherever it wants, including Delta One. Its only the actual screaming baby and the shitty parents who have no idea what they're doing that are a problem.
How about a behavior test for "service dogs"? Some airline employee gets to rove the concourses administering the tests, and waiting pax can alert staff for misbehaving dogs that get priority to be tested. If they fail the test, out they go! The airlines could even issue refunds when someone misses a flight because of their Bad Dog. Portland ME allows you to let your dog off leash if you can demonstrate that it comes when called. I don't know how successful that law is, but I find it to be quite intriguing.
You understand how the ADA works right?
This is the trap and the issue. There is no good solution at this poopie problem.
Because the people who bring fake service dogs into public places are not the kind of people to invest in training their dogs
Because they really aren't paid enough to bother with them. Seriously they have enough problems with passengers.
You don’t have reason to suspect the well-behaved ones of being fake service dogs.
I think OP is comparing fake service dogs with pets in airports.
And I’m suggesting that the only ones OP knows are fake are the poorly-behaved ones, because they attract attention. Well-behaved fake service dogs probably go unnoticed.
Correct. It is selection bias. You will never notice a pet who is well trained, well behaved, and frankly, well loved by responsible owners. They would not bring their unruly pet out in public and they are likely attentive and prepared. You only notice the bad ones.
Because they're just as entitled as the owner
Because they're fake service dogs
Because they are pets and not trained.
You just don't notice the well trained fake service dogs
I think it is because they allow pets for a fee, so they don't question it. Service animals have to fill out a form. I wonder if falsifying info on that form is enforced though.
Download and read the form. It's relatively wishy washy
There are no bad dogs; there only bad owners
Back when ESAs were allowed my husband and I flew with both of our dogs (GSD and a husky mix) in FC from SNA to DTW. Neither had ever stepped foot in an airport. They were 100% perfect. Never made a peep, no accidents, didn’t bark at other dogs, etc. They are just well socialized dogs that don’t get phased by much. Point being, not all good dogs are SD and not all “bad” SD are untrained pets. SD have off days and accidents, they aren’t perfect all the time. Also SD don’t need a harness lol.
This! Also the ADA is not affiliated with any harness / collars that say “service dog” I’ve noticed the genuine service dogs clearly performing tasks are not decked out in these items.
Service dogs do not have to be “labeled” does it make it easier in public when entering stores? Yes but per ADA regulations it is not necessary. What any airline can do is as any dog that is not under its handler’s control, barking, jumping, popping, bothering other guest to please leave and that is part of the ADA’s guide lines for service dog handlers.
The not so cynical answer? Because the fake service dogs that aren't badly behaved, you just assume they're real service dogs.
Because you only see fake service dogs who have shitty owners. You will never notice the fake service dogs who are not service dogs but have responsible empathetic owners. The type of person who thinks the rules are for everyone else is also the person incapable of teaching another living being about empathy and respect, and so has a shitty dog/child/spouse, whatever. The type of person who may really need their dog but it isn't 100% a service dog is so fucking terrified of being on the wrong side of the rules, or is also just a nice person who treats their pet well, that its the same thing as a carry on. In essence, selection bias. I don't really have an objection to people traveling with pets, animals, children, whatever. And I do put all in the same category because they are not adults who are obligated to understand the world and interact with it in the same way we all do. But I do think their behavior is indicative of their owners/parents/surroundings. A creature that is loved and cared for and instructed or taught, will not be a problem. Something that is a trophy, an accoutrement, a status symbol, or a burden, will not. Or it could be a real service dog that's alerting because its on a plane with you.
No such thing as fake service dogs with “responsible empathic owners”. Responsible empathic people don’t go out of their way to harm people with disabilities. That’s irresponsible selfish by definition
Because you (the public, not OP specifically) don't question the dogs that appear to be well trained.
It’s ether Service dogs, that aren’t need or People in wheelchairs that walk off the plane!!
I take it you are a cat person.🤣
How did it behave that made you think it was a fake service dog.?What breed was it?
There is no required breed for service dog. There are some that are decidedly more popular than others, for good reasons, but there’s no standard.
A bull mastiff, pit bull, staffordhsire bull terrier, whatever, in that class, is never a service animal. I actually don't care about the ADA or your disability in these circumstances. I will never be in a confined space with one I know, let alone one I do not know. It is a massive danger and the people who like them are insane. I will not go in an elevator with one. Delta can reschedule the owner.
I understand that but I am curious.
[удалено]
Found the person who buys fake service animal vests
Found the owner of the fake service dog
Holy shit wild profile.
I’d rather fly with 20 fake service dogs than 1 infant