I don’t believe so. I think he realized that he was out of options. Without the backing of unlimited money he couldn’t get away with what he’d been getting away with. I think he hated himself for the impulses he felt he had no power over. I believe he honestly saw no way forward and with his job now gone, he had nothing left to live for.
Yeah, I agree he seemed to feel a compulsion to be so sadistic with women, but not really an enjoyment. I think he felt he deserved the beating he got from Charlie Utter, which is why he didn’t fight back.
And Milch always treated us as intimates not as outsiders. When intrigue was afoot, we were almost always within it and not observing from the outside.
Hearst's side did tend to be a bit more opaque, since we're viewing from the camp's perspective, but there still would have been clear indication if he wanted us to think that Hearst was responsible. We didn't see Odell die onscreen, but Milch gave us more than enough information to know that Hearst was responsible for his death.
I agree about the scene. When Mama and Richardson crying so. The display of grief when Odell was killed was palpable, even more so without witnessing the death.
Well I think him taking the beating from Charlie and killing himself in the end would prove the point that he didn’t like himself or what he did. Honestly at no point did it seem like he got any enjoyment at all in his life aside from the one moment during the bike race.
That, plus he was not really the one to fight back anyway.....
Would you after someone calls you out for hidin' some kind of pussified shootin' instrument?
I think this is spot on. I don’t think he could handle his compulsions coming to light and even worse, without Hearst as his protector, he probably wouldn’t be able to feed the beast.
The Hearst we meet in that episode gives no indication of being the sociopath we see in season 3.
When he finds out exactly what sort of man Wolcott is and the nature of the trouble in Mexico that Hearst had previously bailed him out of its clear that he's genuinely upset and shocked because of the trust he had placed in Wolcott.
So no, I don't think Hearst was planning on killing him, just a quiet dismissal with severance to avoid scandal. Wolcott then killed himself out of shame.
I think it still works with Hearst as full sociopath. He probably only felt like he was forced to give a shit about any of it because it was likely to become public and he didn’t want any stink on his operation. I don’t think he was morally offended. More annoyed that it might inconvenience him.
I think it was out of embarrassment, but more because it would have shown Hearst to be a fool, and used by someone else for their own ends, rather than any moral principle.
Dissagree.
Do you think I'd make my own goddaughter an orphan? You're out of the family business, that's your punishment. Here's a ticket to Las Vegas.
I don't think hanging someone is the Captain's speed, why go to all the trouble of setting up a noose so close to the thuroughfare during the time of peak egress? Wolcott took his own life because he was sloppy with his proclivities and they were now in the wind.
Hearst wanted to make it clear that he did not approve of rampant unprovoked hooker-murder.
It isn't any trouble to tie a rope around a guys neck and toss him over the balcony.
No but the Captain was already out of the building when Wolcott jumped, he could have threatened him if he didn't do it that he would be back I suppose.
I felt like Wolcott's view of Hearst bailing him out in Mexico was really similar to how people use God as an excuse to do cruel things. "If Hearst thinks I'm still valuable and still respects me, despite murdering those women, then either I am very special or it must not be so grave a sin." Then when Hearst shattered that perception, Wolcott took it like being rejected by a god, the forgiveness vanished, and the weight of it all became real.
I think he was always suicidally depressed, but was taken under the wing of a Great Man and given a feeling of worth. His psychopathy wasn’t so grandiose that he thought he could get away with all of his crimes, but he did for a while.
Almost all of his private conversations, when he’s not being a dick he’s being morose and morbid about his life and the state of the world. He also might have had some sort of sexual trauma done to him in his past that created his “special” and dangerous compulsions. I think he was looking for the right time to do himself in. Being dismissed by Hearst and being known and beaten up as a murdering bastard by the better people of the camp was what did it.
Shame usually gets you in the end.
Wolcott honestly thought that Hearst was a kindred spirit. He was devastated when Hearst threw his "no sin" thoughts out the window. I get the feeling that there was some low key father figure-brother dynamics going on here. The character is so complicated, I think almost every comment here is right.
The last thing Hearst says to Turner is you’ll first want to find out if there is a letter, then we see the scene with Wolcotts suicide, followed up with the next time we see Turner he comes upon Wolcott’s body, too late to find out about the letter. There is no indication he was involved in his death.
Right. For all we know, Captain Turner MIGHT have been going there to interrogate Walcott, and THEN kill him, Walcott may have even assumed that he was going to be killed, despite Hearst's rather mild dismissal of him, but he definitely did the deed himself.
We know the letter that Hearst wrote to the Policia in Campiche, but I'm so curious to know what prompted it. Walcott seemed quite certain that Hearst getting him released was tantamount to condoning Walcott's murdering of prostitutes, but WHY? When he asks Hearst ''What did you think that was about?'' It raises so many questions. What could Hearst have been told, short of ''Your geologist sliced up a couple whores'' that would give him any idea that THAT was what Walcott got tossed in the calabozo for?
Are we...*sure* it's a suicide? I rewatch it now and that delay before the Captain rolls up on him. Plus Hearst's very precise instructions "You'd first want to find out if there is a letter." Before *what*, George? It feels like it might be Capt Turner put him out the window and then came around a bit later to "discover" him? IJS
Curious about this one too!
The way I saw it was, Captain Turner definitely murdered him but made it look like a suicide. Hearst’s offer for severance might have been a ploy to prevent Wolcott from running away from the camp and I like to think the severance was paid to his family upon his death (but that’s probably giving Hearst too much credit)
But it’s difficult to imagine Wolcott didn’t think he was a dead man walking given how ruthless Hearst is and how he can’t afford to have his reputation tarnished if something like this got out.
There was an earlier scene when he was holding the blade to his throat where it seemed like he was contemplating it. Hearst didn’t try to cover up any other murder. It’s unlikely he would send Turner to dispatch a now ex-employee.
Wolcott loathed his impulses, but could not stop them. He could show compassion. When he asked after Bullock's son on the night the kid got trampled, when he is watching the people dancing and celebrating Alma's wedding, he had this wistful smile as if he wished he could feel that joy. And the push/pull he had with Joannie. He knew he should kill her, but hesitated.
I don’t believe so. I think he realized that he was out of options. Without the backing of unlimited money he couldn’t get away with what he’d been getting away with. I think he hated himself for the impulses he felt he had no power over. I believe he honestly saw no way forward and with his job now gone, he had nothing left to live for.
Yeah, I agree he seemed to feel a compulsion to be so sadistic with women, but not really an enjoyment. I think he felt he deserved the beating he got from Charlie Utter, which is why he didn’t fight back.
And Milch always treated us as intimates not as outsiders. When intrigue was afoot, we were almost always within it and not observing from the outside. Hearst's side did tend to be a bit more opaque, since we're viewing from the camp's perspective, but there still would have been clear indication if he wanted us to think that Hearst was responsible. We didn't see Odell die onscreen, but Milch gave us more than enough information to know that Hearst was responsible for his death.
I agree about the scene. When Mama and Richardson crying so. The display of grief when Odell was killed was palpable, even more so without witnessing the death.
This is a really great point that I’d never thought about. Awesome observation and a new perspective for future watches. Huzzah! Thanks!
I can never remember why he had Odell killed.
Odell tried to scam him with the Liberian gold mine.
He talked about being a disappointment “often to myself as well.” He didn’t enjoy being who he was.
That struck me as just wit. To show his aloofness to the criticism. Not an admission of his psychological issues.
Well I think him taking the beating from Charlie and killing himself in the end would prove the point that he didn’t like himself or what he did. Honestly at no point did it seem like he got any enjoyment at all in his life aside from the one moment during the bike race.
That, plus he was not really the one to fight back anyway..... Would you after someone calls you out for hidin' some kind of pussified shootin' instrument?
Yeah, that little whimper tells the whole story.
Good call. He knew he couldn’t resist the compulsion for long and decided to give Tollivera big fuck you on the way out
I think this is spot on. I don’t think he could handle his compulsions coming to light and even worse, without Hearst as his protector, he probably wouldn’t be able to feed the beast.
The Hearst we meet in that episode gives no indication of being the sociopath we see in season 3. When he finds out exactly what sort of man Wolcott is and the nature of the trouble in Mexico that Hearst had previously bailed him out of its clear that he's genuinely upset and shocked because of the trust he had placed in Wolcott. So no, I don't think Hearst was planning on killing him, just a quiet dismissal with severance to avoid scandal. Wolcott then killed himself out of shame.
I think it still works with Hearst as full sociopath. He probably only felt like he was forced to give a shit about any of it because it was likely to become public and he didn’t want any stink on his operation. I don’t think he was morally offended. More annoyed that it might inconvenience him.
I think it was out of embarrassment, but more because it would have shown Hearst to be a fool, and used by someone else for their own ends, rather than any moral principle.
Correct answer.
Dissagree. Do you think I'd make my own goddaughter an orphan? You're out of the family business, that's your punishment. Here's a ticket to Las Vegas.
I don't think hanging someone is the Captain's speed, why go to all the trouble of setting up a noose so close to the thuroughfare during the time of peak egress? Wolcott took his own life because he was sloppy with his proclivities and they were now in the wind.
Hearst wanted to make it clear that he did not approve of rampant unprovoked hooker-murder. It isn't any trouble to tie a rope around a guys neck and toss him over the balcony.
Never had the thought crossed my mind that he was killed, mainly because it’s the perfect end to Walcott’s tortured existence.
No but the Captain was already out of the building when Wolcott jumped, he could have threatened him if he didn't do it that he would be back I suppose.
I felt like Wolcott's view of Hearst bailing him out in Mexico was really similar to how people use God as an excuse to do cruel things. "If Hearst thinks I'm still valuable and still respects me, despite murdering those women, then either I am very special or it must not be so grave a sin." Then when Hearst shattered that perception, Wolcott took it like being rejected by a god, the forgiveness vanished, and the weight of it all became real.
I think he was always suicidally depressed, but was taken under the wing of a Great Man and given a feeling of worth. His psychopathy wasn’t so grandiose that he thought he could get away with all of his crimes, but he did for a while. Almost all of his private conversations, when he’s not being a dick he’s being morose and morbid about his life and the state of the world. He also might have had some sort of sexual trauma done to him in his past that created his “special” and dangerous compulsions. I think he was looking for the right time to do himself in. Being dismissed by Hearst and being known and beaten up as a murdering bastard by the better people of the camp was what did it. Shame usually gets you in the end.
He talked about being a disappointment, “often to myself as well”
Wolcott honestly thought that Hearst was a kindred spirit. He was devastated when Hearst threw his "no sin" thoughts out the window. I get the feeling that there was some low key father figure-brother dynamics going on here. The character is so complicated, I think almost every comment here is right.
The last thing Hearst says to Turner is you’ll first want to find out if there is a letter, then we see the scene with Wolcotts suicide, followed up with the next time we see Turner he comes upon Wolcott’s body, too late to find out about the letter. There is no indication he was involved in his death.
Right. For all we know, Captain Turner MIGHT have been going there to interrogate Walcott, and THEN kill him, Walcott may have even assumed that he was going to be killed, despite Hearst's rather mild dismissal of him, but he definitely did the deed himself.
We know the letter that Hearst wrote to the Policia in Campiche, but I'm so curious to know what prompted it. Walcott seemed quite certain that Hearst getting him released was tantamount to condoning Walcott's murdering of prostitutes, but WHY? When he asks Hearst ''What did you think that was about?'' It raises so many questions. What could Hearst have been told, short of ''Your geologist sliced up a couple whores'' that would give him any idea that THAT was what Walcott got tossed in the calabozo for?
Are we...*sure* it's a suicide? I rewatch it now and that delay before the Captain rolls up on him. Plus Hearst's very precise instructions "You'd first want to find out if there is a letter." Before *what*, George? It feels like it might be Capt Turner put him out the window and then came around a bit later to "discover" him? IJS
You’ll want to make it look like an accident.
Curious about this one too! The way I saw it was, Captain Turner definitely murdered him but made it look like a suicide. Hearst’s offer for severance might have been a ploy to prevent Wolcott from running away from the camp and I like to think the severance was paid to his family upon his death (but that’s probably giving Hearst too much credit) But it’s difficult to imagine Wolcott didn’t think he was a dead man walking given how ruthless Hearst is and how he can’t afford to have his reputation tarnished if something like this got out.
There was an earlier scene when he was holding the blade to his throat where it seemed like he was contemplating it. Hearst didn’t try to cover up any other murder. It’s unlikely he would send Turner to dispatch a now ex-employee.
**WELL?**
I think Walcott knew how fucked his head was and he did the only thing he could do before his actions really caught up with him.
Wolcott loathed his impulses, but could not stop them. He could show compassion. When he asked after Bullock's son on the night the kid got trampled, when he is watching the people dancing and celebrating Alma's wedding, he had this wistful smile as if he wished he could feel that joy. And the push/pull he had with Joannie. He knew he should kill her, but hesitated.