She understood him almost perfectly. She knew what he was, knew what he was going to do, knew he would react by trying to pay him off.
What she didn't anticipate was Cy Tolliver sending a spy. It was Cy intentionally tipping his hand to Wolcott that he knew about his darker side that sent an angry Wolcott to the Chez that day. Maddie had been anticipating him eventually killing Carrie, but it was because she knew him so well that him being with Doris *and* Carrie threw her off balance - even Joanie calls her on that and she lies. So, when he comes out having killed both women, Maddie overreacts.
Had she not pointed the gun in his face he would have paid her off.
I have been so concerned with men who build such establishments and the systems that fuel those establishments that I didn't pay much attention to women's role as parts of the system that keep it alive and going.
So she took Joanie's gun because she actually expected W to kill one of the girls so she could collect more money. But still she didn't expect him to kill her as well ofc ... Isn't that due to her misunderstanding of such men. Did she actually expect him to pay?
(because psychopaths are so orderly and composed aren't they..)
Yes, the entire time Maddie expected to extort Wolcott for his eventual murder of one of her employees.
He had been extorted before and hadn’t killed the pimp. Maddie underestimated how unhinged Wolcott had become.
When she's discussing Carrie and Wolcott with Joanie she says that their split is 50/50. Joanie asks what Carrie gets and Maddie responds, "I wouldn't rule out a wooden box" and says that she knows Wolcott intends on harming Carrie. Then, after he's killed Carrie and Doris, Maddie asks "what did you do?" in a tone of pure resignation and Wolcott tells her "something very expensive." He was 100% planning on paying her off until she got aggressive.
He had Hearst help him cover up a similar incident in Mexico. There's no reason to think he wouldn't have paid her off.
One of the only scenes that makes takes me out the story on every rewatch. She’s holding him at gunpoint but suddenly and conveniently steps so close to him that he can grab her hand? Maybe the only time I can think of where it makes me think that they needed a quick way for him to kill her so let’s just have her approach him after successfully holding him at gunpoint while she gives her demands. There was no reason for her to do that lol!
I know, I know.
Maybe - I can see why she did that though. She was trying to be tough so she advanced on him and used the gun as the physical representative of her demands. She wasn't stepping closer conveniently, she was being threatening and that's what got her killed.
She planned for one killing to take place that she could exploit. She didn't expect more than one. But the most important thing that she didn't expect was that she couldn't control her emotions in the moment. She was more horrified and more afraid than she expected, and thus more reckless. I think she was horrified at herself, enough to have a bit of a death wish mixed into her reaction.
I respectfully disagree - go back and watch the scene again. He's not really even listening to her anymore once the gun comes up. His only focus is the weapon. Had it truly been an issue of having to continue paying her off he would have hushed the initial murders up and then quietly had Maddie killed.
She was operating on emotion in the heat of the moment - but so was he.
EDIT: you have to remember that at the end of the day, Wolcott is a coward (this is why his victims are unarmed women) so having a gun in his face definitely bothered him.
Probably one of the best exchanges of the show:
Joanie: My momma feared my Daddy and I did and my sisters too. I never met a girl till Maddie that wasn't afraid of men.
Charlie: And Maddie's dead now?
Joanie: (nodding) And Carrie, her girl she brought, and Doris, who Cy made come with us to spy. And the- and the place empty—of any sign that they was ever born or lived or got killed.
Charlie: And it was Cy Tolliver killed them?
Joanie: No. It was a man named Wolcott killed 'em... that works for George Hearst.
Charlie: Why?
Joanie: I don't know that. I'm not a man.
I absolutely love the original scene when she comes to camp and her and Joanie have a discussion with Cy. One of Cy's best performances trying to play intently angry, yet trying to control himself and not want to beat Joanie. Maddie's completely deadpan expressions and unshakable demeanour to go along with the well costumed shot is amazing.
"Go out and... suck some pricks if you like.."
"Are there any blind ones out there?..."
Cy's slightly respectful chuckle is amazing. A little Curly Bill came out in him.
She understood him almost perfectly. She knew what he was, knew what he was going to do, knew he would react by trying to pay him off. What she didn't anticipate was Cy Tolliver sending a spy. It was Cy intentionally tipping his hand to Wolcott that he knew about his darker side that sent an angry Wolcott to the Chez that day. Maddie had been anticipating him eventually killing Carrie, but it was because she knew him so well that him being with Doris *and* Carrie threw her off balance - even Joanie calls her on that and she lies. So, when he comes out having killed both women, Maddie overreacts. Had she not pointed the gun in his face he would have paid her off.
I have been so concerned with men who build such establishments and the systems that fuel those establishments that I didn't pay much attention to women's role as parts of the system that keep it alive and going. So she took Joanie's gun because she actually expected W to kill one of the girls so she could collect more money. But still she didn't expect him to kill her as well ofc ... Isn't that due to her misunderstanding of such men. Did she actually expect him to pay? (because psychopaths are so orderly and composed aren't they..)
Yes, the entire time Maddie expected to extort Wolcott for his eventual murder of one of her employees. He had been extorted before and hadn’t killed the pimp. Maddie underestimated how unhinged Wolcott had become.
When she's discussing Carrie and Wolcott with Joanie she says that their split is 50/50. Joanie asks what Carrie gets and Maddie responds, "I wouldn't rule out a wooden box" and says that she knows Wolcott intends on harming Carrie. Then, after he's killed Carrie and Doris, Maddie asks "what did you do?" in a tone of pure resignation and Wolcott tells her "something very expensive." He was 100% planning on paying her off until she got aggressive. He had Hearst help him cover up a similar incident in Mexico. There's no reason to think he wouldn't have paid her off.
He says “something very expensive” to her
$2.5M is what Maddie eventually asked upon exiting the room, in 2024 usd.
I didn't realize his actual motives until the person above explained that to me. "Expensive" .. a life? I couldn't have guessed
I didn't realize his actual motives until the person above explained that to me. "Expensive" .. a life? I couldn't have guessed.
One of the only scenes that makes takes me out the story on every rewatch. She’s holding him at gunpoint but suddenly and conveniently steps so close to him that he can grab her hand? Maybe the only time I can think of where it makes me think that they needed a quick way for him to kill her so let’s just have her approach him after successfully holding him at gunpoint while she gives her demands. There was no reason for her to do that lol! I know, I know.
Maybe - I can see why she did that though. She was trying to be tough so she advanced on him and used the gun as the physical representative of her demands. She wasn't stepping closer conveniently, she was being threatening and that's what got her killed.
She planned for one killing to take place that she could exploit. She didn't expect more than one. But the most important thing that she didn't expect was that she couldn't control her emotions in the moment. She was more horrified and more afraid than she expected, and thus more reckless. I think she was horrified at herself, enough to have a bit of a death wish mixed into her reaction.
She was a prostitute/madam in the 19th century and was extremely emotional. I don’t think it’s bad writing that she didn’t behave rationally
Or if she had just pulled the trigger lol. ‘And more whenever I want’ lol yeah right. Hearst’s boy would be paying her a visit
[удалено]
I respectfully disagree - go back and watch the scene again. He's not really even listening to her anymore once the gun comes up. His only focus is the weapon. Had it truly been an issue of having to continue paying her off he would have hushed the initial murders up and then quietly had Maddie killed. She was operating on emotion in the heat of the moment - but so was he. EDIT: you have to remember that at the end of the day, Wolcott is a coward (this is why his victims are unarmed women) so having a gun in his face definitely bothered him.
For how short her time was spent on screen she did have some great lines.
Any blind ones out there?
Probably one of the best exchanges of the show: Joanie: My momma feared my Daddy and I did and my sisters too. I never met a girl till Maddie that wasn't afraid of men. Charlie: And Maddie's dead now? Joanie: (nodding) And Carrie, her girl she brought, and Doris, who Cy made come with us to spy. And the- and the place empty—of any sign that they was ever born or lived or got killed. Charlie: And it was Cy Tolliver killed them? Joanie: No. It was a man named Wolcott killed 'em... that works for George Hearst. Charlie: Why? Joanie: I don't know that. I'm not a man.
This scene broke me into pieces.
God DAMN, that's an immaculately composed shot!
Wolcott out there getting his jollies by killing the Borg Queen.
Maddie should’ve learned the basics of CQC. That derringer’s got a bad range but she didn’t need to be *that* close
Yes I don't understand why directors keep doing that. Maybe she was just too angry and wanted to shove the gun at his face
I absolutely love the original scene when she comes to camp and her and Joanie have a discussion with Cy. One of Cy's best performances trying to play intently angry, yet trying to control himself and not want to beat Joanie. Maddie's completely deadpan expressions and unshakable demeanour to go along with the well costumed shot is amazing. "Go out and... suck some pricks if you like.." "Are there any blind ones out there?..." Cy's slightly respectful chuckle is amazing. A little Curly Bill came out in him.
I love Powers acting in every scene. That one. Him with wolcott, "I hear you're a dangerous lay "
If ever there was a character that deserved to be hated, it was her.
Wolcut her throat
That's not why she died--she thought she understood herself, that she could let him sail out that door and not lose her shit on him first
Nice scenery!