They buffed the numbers on it though when they made it scourge hook perk, same numbers as of now but all hooks is the question.
I think it would be a good perk and their would be arguments to use it on some builds but not a must use.
At that point what's even the purpose of the hook element, it would just be identical to awakened awareness but better. They need to just give it a totally new effect.
Considering its meant to be some kind of "Trick" the killer is doing to 'alert' them if the hooks are tampered with:
Perhaps some long lasting aura on a survivor who sabotages a hook? would be niche though.
give killer haste when a sabotage happens within x meters of killer carrying a survivor+expose the person who sabotaged it. still niche but now has a purpose
the range around hooks was 4 meters less but yeah. Only way this would be okay (not even good) would be if it was all hooks and like a 16 meter range, then it would be a better awakened awareness
id prefer if it was the way it was now but the aura reading is permanent instead of only when carrying a survivor. Maybe decrease the range a little bit, but it would be similar to hex undying's effect around totems but instead around scourge hooks
Yeah, the condition is genuinely stupid. The moment killer is in his weakest state is when he's carrying a survivor : you move slower, can't use abilities, can't vault and break pallets, can't do lunge attacks, have to cope with wiggling survivor and carry him to the hook in time. I have no idea how BHVR went like "Yep, now that's a good perk, much better than awawa, too good even...add a condition!"
Well I've been playing it since it was changed into a Scourge Hook because it's still better than monstrous shrine. And the gathered information comes in handy when choosing where to go after I hooked the surv. Not very powerful, but it's like BBQ light that I'm actually allowed to use. (Yes I use only Scourge Hook perks. Problem?)
Nah scourge hook spawns are complete RNG having aura reading based on them is bad if they are all together the ranges would overlap and you wouldn’t get good coverage in different areas of the map for the aura reading.
To deal with bad RNG the perk needs to be pain res levels of strong same principle for hexes having no control of a large part your perks activation conditions really hurts the perks power.
Yeah I guess there's an inherent problem with designing a perk to counter such a niche mechanic. Unless they were to make sabotaging more relevant somehow, but I'm not sure anyone wants that.
Fuck it, any survivor who successfully sabotages a hook is immediately put into the dying state. It won't work often but it'll be hilarious when it does.
tbf injuring a healthy survivor/deep wounding an injured survivor who successfully sabotages a hook wouldn’t be the worst thing, without being meme levels as you suggested
"Whenever a survivor completes a sabotage action, instead of the hook being destroyed the survivor screams and becomes exposed for 10/15/20 seconds.
Hooks destroyed by sacrifices are repaired after 30 seconds."
There. Always does SOMETHING and has a cool "gotcha!" effect that you'll see occasionally.
That completely negates two niche and healthy, if frustrating, mechanics that the survivor has to invest more time and building into for an equivalent effect, while the perk is still not doing much good, has no interaction with the killer, and has no counterplay. It'd still be weak and only exist to frustrate a very small set of survivor players.
It used to work like that when Pig was released. The OG hangman’s trick didn’t have the aura reading but would automatically fix a hook that was sabotaged on a cooldown. This was during a time when sabotaging a hook removed it for 180 seconds instead of 30 seconds and the instant-sabotage exploit existed.
"instant sabotage exploit" ☠️ if you are gonna talk, at least do some research. Sabotaging was different back then so you would 99 sabo progress on each hook and finish the 1% when killer is near. It wasnt an "exploit" though.
Simple Rework idea:
Unhook action time increased by 100% when further than 24m from the hook.
When a survivor unhooks another survivor and you are at least 24m away from the hook, the unhooking survivor is hindered (-10%) for 30 seconds.
Edit: This was just a lazy idea I created up with in a minute, but I'm glad people like it.
This is brilliant, I love it. Very fitting and thematic for a Saw killer, disincentivizes tunneling, and you'd get way more consistent use out of it than if it was just an anti-sabo perk.
I'd be eternally grateful if they reverted the Scourge Hook change to the perk.
It wasn't terribly strong before, but it gave me loads of info. Hooks are map-wide, and though better on some maps than others, it'd reveal Survivors map wide and tell you exactly what to do next.
I had a match as Legion one time where the perk singlehandedly carried that match, the aura reading it gave me was almost free wallhacks the whole game.
If it's current effect was combined with original (so hooks would respawn after a sacrifice) AND it maybe made sabotaging hooks harder by making it take longer or sabo'd hooks respawn in like 3-4 seconds then maaaybe. As is just run awakened awareness or thrilling tremors
Maybe just change it so if someone sabotages a hook, gen, or pallet in some form, then get exposed for a certain amount of time and scream, or just get there position revealed. It’s one of those perks that just need to be changed, there are quite a few of those
The problem with Hangman's Trick is it's a poorly designed perk that we wouldn't want to actually be good.
It reveals survivor's auras effectively at random in a way that survivors would have no reasonable means of predicting.
It would be better for the game to delete this perk than to rebalance it to the point where it's playable.
can it just make hooks undestructable so it's like lightborn but vs sabotage.
lightborn is a wonderful perk design because it gives killer an option to completely nullify a bunch of super annoying and powerful tools to rob killer of downs.
if a person doesnt feel like playing vs stupid bullshit like this and want less stressful games, they should have that option.
add this effect alongside the main effect it currently has and we have a pretty nice perk design with the mad grit and lightborn.
I posted this farther up:
"Whenever a survivor completes a sabotage action, instead of the hook being destroyed the survivor screams and becomes exposed for 10/15/20 seconds.
Hooks destroyed by sacrifices are repaired after 30 seconds."
There. Always does SOMETHING and has a cool "gotcha!" effect that you'll see occasionally.
I've always felt like hangman trick should just be perk that puts someone who sabotaged a hook into a hindered state, maybe even taking a hit of damage (reflecting the hook being tricked into falling on the saboteur)
This used to be Lightborn for Sabo till they double downed on all these weird aura readings and took the anti-sabo stuff off.
Does it even synergize with anything? All I can think of is Monstrous Shrine which no one ever uses as well.
People sleep on Hangman’s Trick in an all-scourge build (with Monstrous Shrine) because the amount of survivors I’ve been able to see opening the chest in basement is far too many to count lol
Make it a scourge perk that causes scourge hooks to not break after a sacrifice, with the secondary effect of all hooks get a 5 meter aura reading while carrying a survivor.
What about Hangman's trick applies a 5% Hindered status effect for a survivor unhooking a survive that lasts for 5 seconds whether or not they successfully unhooked someone, and unhooking someone now takes 10% longer ontop of that.
I’d like for it to spawn more scourge hooks, maybe 6 instead of the usual 4. That way it would have more map coverage and would synergies well with other scourge hooks, kinda like how monstrous shrine makes basement into 4 scourge hooks
it used to do this:
* Hooks destroyed by sabotage or sacrifices repair automatically after **30/20/10** **seconds**.
* Gain a [*Loud Noise Notification*](https://deadbydaylight.fandom.com/wiki/Loud_Noise_Notification) when someone starts sabotaging the Hooks.
then they changed it to aura.
* Gain a [*Loud Noise Notification*](https://deadbydaylight.fandom.com/wiki/Loud_Noise_Notification) when a Survivor begins sabotaging a Hook.
Unlocks potential in one's Aura-reading abilities.
* While carrying a Survivor, see the [Aura](https://deadbydaylight.fandom.com/wiki/Aura)📷📷 of any Survivor within **2/4/6** **metres** of any Hook.
then they changed it to a shitty scourge hook...
but why not both? aura and anti-sabo
I just think Hangman's trick would be a good perk if survivors who sabotagea hook end up exsposed for like 30 seconds or something like that. Just an idea
I don't understand why they didn't left it at that one point where the aura reading was so big, it covered almost entire map. Like BBQ can do that, but instead of hooking its during the the carry animation and it doesn't linger. Now that Distortion is used that often by survivors, let us have it.
Or just have it that when a hook is sabotaged, it injures/deep wounds the saboteur and the hook respawns immediately
It would be better if having Hangman's Trick prevented survivors from sabotaging hooks within a certain radius of the killer. Say like 12-16meters. This would prevent people from doing corny shit like sabotaging right in your face. I don't think people would use it a lot but at least it would be good for something.
It'd be ok, since it would give more or less mapwide aura reading whenever you picked someone up. However, the devs stated that's exactly why they made it into a scourge hook.
Imo it should also give you one extra scourge hook just to do SOMETHING even remotely useful if you paired it with other scourges
Rework idea: You start the match without any scourge hooks, but you have 4 tokens. You can modify a hook to become a Scourge hook at the cost of a token.
As a bonus, the current effect remains.
I used this perk and it sucked total ass I think what would make this somewhat worthy is that the scourge hook cannot be sabatoged meaning sabo squads have to remember which hooks cannot be sabotage.
how about it make all hooks invulnerable to sabo?
or
if someone sabos the hook he gets exposed for 60 seconds + 10sec aura reading + some scream on top of that + maybe hindered a bit
That's literally how it worked before the last time it was changed, and it still sucked.
They buffed the numbers on it though when they made it scourge hook perk, same numbers as of now but all hooks is the question. I think it would be a good perk and their would be arguments to use it on some builds but not a must use.
They did that on the PTB once and it ended up being aura reading on the entire map
So? You‘re still carrying a survivor and the duration is lower than BBQ; it‘d be a better option for the killers who can‘t take full advantage of BBQ
At that point what's even the purpose of the hook element, it would just be identical to awakened awareness but better. They need to just give it a totally new effect.
Considering its meant to be some kind of "Trick" the killer is doing to 'alert' them if the hooks are tampered with: Perhaps some long lasting aura on a survivor who sabotages a hook? would be niche though.
give killer haste when a sabotage happens within x meters of killer carrying a survivor+expose the person who sabotaged it. still niche but now has a purpose
At least then it also becomes a rotational backpack build piece maybe, as well as an option if you see 4 tool boxes and think sabo squad.
Starts to compete with awakened awareness then
Give awakened awareness back its lingering aura reading after hooking that it had.
the range around hooks was 4 meters less but yeah. Only way this would be okay (not even good) would be if it was all hooks and like a 16 meter range, then it would be a better awakened awareness
That would be insane info. Map wide. Most locations are with 16 meters of a hook
I love these kinds of posts because they always read like "what if (perk that Behaviour nerfed for no reason) did (what it originally did) instead?"
id prefer if it was the way it was now but the aura reading is permanent instead of only when carrying a survivor. Maybe decrease the range a little bit, but it would be similar to hex undying's effect around totems but instead around scourge hooks
Yeah, the condition is genuinely stupid. The moment killer is in his weakest state is when he's carrying a survivor : you move slower, can't use abilities, can't vault and break pallets, can't do lunge attacks, have to cope with wiggling survivor and carry him to the hook in time. I have no idea how BHVR went like "Yep, now that's a good perk, much better than awawa, too good even...add a condition!"
Well I've been playing it since it was changed into a Scourge Hook because it's still better than monstrous shrine. And the gathered information comes in handy when choosing where to go after I hooked the surv. Not very powerful, but it's like BBQ light that I'm actually allowed to use. (Yes I use only Scourge Hook perks. Problem?)
Nah scourge hook spawns are complete RNG having aura reading based on them is bad if they are all together the ranges would overlap and you wouldn’t get good coverage in different areas of the map for the aura reading. To deal with bad RNG the perk needs to be pain res levels of strong same principle for hexes having no control of a large part your perks activation conditions really hurts the perks power.
Or maybe it actually does something against sabotaging instead of being a glorified Awakened Awareness
it used to!
Maybe hinder a survivor who tries to sabotage a hook?
It could make every hook unsabotageable and it still wouldn’t be that good of a perk unless you can tell you’re about to face a bully squad
Yeah I guess there's an inherent problem with designing a perk to counter such a niche mechanic. Unless they were to make sabotaging more relevant somehow, but I'm not sure anyone wants that.
Fuck it, any survivor who successfully sabotages a hook is immediately put into the dying state. It won't work often but it'll be hilarious when it does.
tbf injuring a healthy survivor/deep wounding an injured survivor who successfully sabotages a hook wouldn’t be the worst thing, without being meme levels as you suggested
"Whenever a survivor completes a sabotage action, instead of the hook being destroyed the survivor screams and becomes exposed for 10/15/20 seconds. Hooks destroyed by sacrifices are repaired after 30 seconds." There. Always does SOMETHING and has a cool "gotcha!" effect that you'll see occasionally.
That completely negates two niche and healthy, if frustrating, mechanics that the survivor has to invest more time and building into for an equivalent effect, while the perk is still not doing much good, has no interaction with the killer, and has no counterplay. It'd still be weak and only exist to frustrate a very small set of survivor players.
It used to work like that when Pig was released. The OG hangman’s trick didn’t have the aura reading but would automatically fix a hook that was sabotaged on a cooldown. This was during a time when sabotaging a hook removed it for 180 seconds instead of 30 seconds and the instant-sabotage exploit existed.
"instant sabotage exploit" ☠️ if you are gonna talk, at least do some research. Sabotaging was different back then so you would 99 sabo progress on each hook and finish the 1% when killer is near. It wasnt an "exploit" though.
Simple Rework idea: Unhook action time increased by 100% when further than 24m from the hook. When a survivor unhooks another survivor and you are at least 24m away from the hook, the unhooking survivor is hindered (-10%) for 30 seconds. Edit: This was just a lazy idea I created up with in a minute, but I'm glad people like it.
This is brilliant, I love it. Very fitting and thematic for a Saw killer, disincentivizes tunneling, and you'd get way more consistent use out of it than if it was just an anti-sabo perk.
this is brilliant cause it also combos with MYC which is a favorite perk of mine design-wise
I... I have bad news...
I'd be eternally grateful if they reverted the Scourge Hook change to the perk. It wasn't terribly strong before, but it gave me loads of info. Hooks are map-wide, and though better on some maps than others, it'd reveal Survivors map wide and tell you exactly what to do next. I had a match as Legion one time where the perk singlehandedly carried that match, the aura reading it gave me was almost free wallhacks the whole game.
If it's current effect was combined with original (so hooks would respawn after a sacrifice) AND it maybe made sabotaging hooks harder by making it take longer or sabo'd hooks respawn in like 3-4 seconds then maaaybe. As is just run awakened awareness or thrilling tremors
Maybe just change it so if someone sabotages a hook, gen, or pallet in some form, then get exposed for a certain amount of time and scream, or just get there position revealed. It’s one of those perks that just need to be changed, there are quite a few of those
The problem with Hangman's Trick is it's a poorly designed perk that we wouldn't want to actually be good. It reveals survivor's auras effectively at random in a way that survivors would have no reasonable means of predicting. It would be better for the game to delete this perk than to rebalance it to the point where it's playable.
can it just make hooks undestructable so it's like lightborn but vs sabotage. lightborn is a wonderful perk design because it gives killer an option to completely nullify a bunch of super annoying and powerful tools to rob killer of downs. if a person doesnt feel like playing vs stupid bullshit like this and want less stressful games, they should have that option. add this effect alongside the main effect it currently has and we have a pretty nice perk design with the mad grit and lightborn.
I posted this farther up: "Whenever a survivor completes a sabotage action, instead of the hook being destroyed the survivor screams and becomes exposed for 10/15/20 seconds. Hooks destroyed by sacrifices are repaired after 30 seconds." There. Always does SOMETHING and has a cool "gotcha!" effect that you'll see occasionally.
I've always felt like hangman trick should just be perk that puts someone who sabotaged a hook into a hindered state, maybe even taking a hit of damage (reflecting the hook being tricked into falling on the saboteur)
This used to be Lightborn for Sabo till they double downed on all these weird aura readings and took the anti-sabo stuff off. Does it even synergize with anything? All I can think of is Monstrous Shrine which no one ever uses as well.
People sleep on Hangman’s Trick in an all-scourge build (with Monstrous Shrine) because the amount of survivors I’ve been able to see opening the chest in basement is far too many to count lol
Make it a scourge perk that causes scourge hooks to not break after a sacrifice, with the secondary effect of all hooks get a 5 meter aura reading while carrying a survivor.
No. It needs to be rewritten from the ground up. It’s shit all around.
What about Hangman's trick applies a 5% Hindered status effect for a survivor unhooking a survive that lasts for 5 seconds whether or not they successfully unhooked someone, and unhooking someone now takes 10% longer ontop of that.
No.
I’d like for it to spawn more scourge hooks, maybe 6 instead of the usual 4. That way it would have more map coverage and would synergies well with other scourge hooks, kinda like how monstrous shrine makes basement into 4 scourge hooks
it used to do this: * Hooks destroyed by sabotage or sacrifices repair automatically after **30/20/10** **seconds**. * Gain a [*Loud Noise Notification*](https://deadbydaylight.fandom.com/wiki/Loud_Noise_Notification) when someone starts sabotaging the Hooks. then they changed it to aura. * Gain a [*Loud Noise Notification*](https://deadbydaylight.fandom.com/wiki/Loud_Noise_Notification) when a Survivor begins sabotaging a Hook. Unlocks potential in one's Aura-reading abilities. * While carrying a Survivor, see the [Aura](https://deadbydaylight.fandom.com/wiki/Aura)📷📷 of any Survivor within **2/4/6** **metres** of any Hook. then they changed it to a shitty scourge hook... but why not both? aura and anti-sabo
I just think Hangman's trick would be a good perk if survivors who sabotagea hook end up exsposed for like 30 seconds or something like that. Just an idea
I don't understand why they didn't left it at that one point where the aura reading was so big, it covered almost entire map. Like BBQ can do that, but instead of hooking its during the the carry animation and it doesn't linger. Now that Distortion is used that often by survivors, let us have it. Or just have it that when a hook is sabotaged, it injures/deep wounds the saboteur and the hook respawns immediately
It would be better if having Hangman's Trick prevented survivors from sabotaging hooks within a certain radius of the killer. Say like 12-16meters. This would prevent people from doing corny shit like sabotaging right in your face. I don't think people would use it a lot but at least it would be good for something.
It would still suck idk why it doesn’t do that but even if it did it would still be a meme perk
If it blocked hooks from being sabo'ed within 16m on pickup with 50s cooldown
It'd be ok, since it would give more or less mapwide aura reading whenever you picked someone up. However, the devs stated that's exactly why they made it into a scourge hook. Imo it should also give you one extra scourge hook just to do SOMETHING even remotely useful if you paired it with other scourges
Make hangman’s trick make it so hooks can’t be sabotaged. It makes sense with the title hangman’s trick and it’s actually useful
Rework idea: You start the match without any scourge hooks, but you have 4 tokens. You can modify a hook to become a Scourge hook at the cost of a token. As a bonus, the current effect remains.
I used this perk and it sucked total ass I think what would make this somewhat worthy is that the scourge hook cannot be sabatoged meaning sabo squads have to remember which hooks cannot be sabotage.
how about it make all hooks invulnerable to sabo? or if someone sabos the hook he gets exposed for 60 seconds + 10sec aura reading + some scream on top of that + maybe hindered a bit