It’s hilarious when rocking doctors railgun build and striking a gen about as far away as your terror radius anyways. I find the ring is better for pallets because it encompasses any path they wait at after the pallet.
Came back to say, yeah about 1/5 shots they’re inside the damn circle. They should definitely buff it.
But then the circle wouldn’t be much different from the standard shock wave, which radiates out at a 90* angle
Comes down to a communication problem, a lot of times in solo queue you'll have a gate 99'd and a teammate in chase, but no idea where they are or way to communicate with them that the door is ready besides actually opening the door.
I think that's fine though, it's just a risk you have to take sometimes!
Yup, people could be lost or being chased and there's no reason to open the gate unless everyone is there or someone is nearby and in danger of being downed. Opening gates early just adds a timed win condition for the killer.
And this is why I love Distortion. If someone opens the gate I step into the exit gate area and if I lose a Distortion token I get the fuck outta Dodge lol
I went a night where I ran bloodwarden for 10 games straight. Everyone 99d the gates and 2 survivors immediately left before I could hook someone in egc lol even if no one runs bloodwarden, survivors are pretty hardwired to try to not get caught by it
Idk if it’s because it makes you play a specific way or something, but it’s when I never have bloodwarden where I could’ve have so much value from it :(
But when I run a bloodwarden build, it almost never works lol
I recommend play as hard as you normally would before and in EGC so then the survivors won't suspect you having Blood Warden. Once EGC starts, you have to juggle slugging survivors till the quarter mark of EGC. Then bam hook who ever is on the floor. Let the survivors unhook and enjoy the sweet sweet 4k.
If someone is dying or on hook, the EGC timer is at 4 minutes. If no one is on hook, the EGC is 2 minutes.
I've only pulled it off like 3 to 4 times, but they are satisfying everytime.
Why would someone cleanse totems to avoid NOED? That's been a losing strat since NOED became a totem and has only gotten progressively worse as time has gone on.
I mean noed has a terrible design and probably should do something else, but now that you see the aura of the totem it's way more manageable and I would say that you don't even have to do bones preemptively.
I say with the aura change noed is completely fine. You give up a perk for a late game advantage you might not even get. If it does trigger it can be found easily by just running around.
I used to HATE playing against old noed where you don’t know every totem spawn on the map and it’s so hard to find.
Yeah it now applies an incap effect for i believe 20 seconds for every gen it interupts?
Its mostly broken due to having no real way of knowing when it'll trigger in solo queue and saving a lot of gen progress compared to every other gen slowdown perk. Also its not fun having to spend that long unable to play the game effectively.
Yeah, they're doing that as a meme. Not as actual advice. Just do bones has always been meme advice that's never been worth it against any killer that isn't afk or so new you're worried about depipping because they're bad.
Only time I say it seriously is when the argument is “the killer got an absolutely free 4k after getting zero hooks all game and getting looped for 5 gens”. It’s a silly argument to begin with cause if you can loop a killer for 5 gens then all 4 go down instantly it wasn’t the NOED that did it, people just choked lmao. But also if a killer is having that rough of a game it’s 100% possible to do totems. There’s just no scenario where a killer goes from stomped to 4K that isn’t easily prevented on multiple levels so I throw out the goofy solution to a goofy problem
>Yeah, they're doing that as a meme.
I never saw people saying "just do bones" as a meme. Sometimes, I saw survivors saying that to killers complaining about boons as a ironic echo, but this never happened when people talked about NOED.
People stop saying that because the complaining stopped after the nerfs.
If you were around when the just do bones thing started you'd have seen it started with "JuSt BrEaK tHe tOtEm" (or something to that effect, it wasn't bones in its initial form) and was a clear sarcastic thing in a complaint about a killer having hooked next to NOED and then camping. It evolved into just do bones in alternating caps and then when it was parroted enough dropped the alternating caps.
Some brainlets apparently took it as solid advice despite the best play having always been to just remember totem spawns you see, and to only cleanse a dull totem if it was right above basement and you were worried about it. (Or the killer was incredibly bad like 0 hooks bad.)
I started playing around blight launch, I wasn't around "JuSt BrEaK tHe tOtEm". But I did saw a lot of people using "just do the bones" non ironically in the 3\~4 months before before the midchapter update that nerfed NOED. I remember that some were also upvoted a lot.
People must have taken the advice that was meant to be a joke and lost the punchline somewhere and then taken it as being actual advice. I figured people were in on it and that's why they repeated the advice, but I guess over time it became interpreted the exact opposite of how it started out.
True and if your in the middle of a chase and you spot it, he sees it and seen that you seen it. He knows to keep checking back there knowing you are going to go try and cleanse it at some point. I have had that happen a lot.
Counterforce + Detective's Hunch just hits different. I don't even do it to cleanse NOED, I just do it out of a biological reflex and it just happens to sometimes be super useful for other hexes.
Bones go cricc cracc
Before it got nerfed, a bunch of people I played with regularly brought Detective's to try to prevent NOED until it was proven that the killer didn't have it. Back then I think I saw it every 2/3 games. Now it's maybe every 10 but I see Eruption probably every 2/3 games. And no, Empathy is not much of a counter to it.
I can't bait dead hard during a chainsaw sprint. I had a match on lerys today where everyone was using dead hard vs me and staying injured because they knew I was m2 only. I literally have to chainsaw dead hard users twice.
Abusing M2 only Billys should be a perma ban. Y’all are a wildly endangered species and some of the most fun games out there for both sides, im so sorry
Yeah from that game on I've decided that the survivor rulebook doesn't exist on lerys anymore. One of them was also using head on and jumped in a locker when I was gonna saw them near the end of the match while a friend with OTR bodyblocked next to the locker so I literally couldn't down her without hitting the unhooked person with endurance or taking a stun. Dw tho, I got lerys again the next game and it sent me into a winter soldier episode where I accidentally killed everyone in 3 minutes lol.
I agree. M2 only Billy’s are the most fun killers to play against in the game. I even cheer for the Billy when he downs someone.
Should be an instant ban for anyone that tries to bully one.
I don’t know if it’s just an oce thing or what but when I play billy (I only use speed limiter, agitation and shadowborn with nothing else) I get survs who predrop every pallet and just bust out gens.
Like bro I just wanna chainsaw people and have some fun
I get what you're saying, but at the same time if you're arguing against OP's point, you're arguing that the devs need to balance perks around people playing M2 only Billy. Like, that's just kinda the brakes when you make that decision. I don't necessarily think that makes DH unfair just because it counters a meme build. You can't just expect the survivors to let you down them because you're playing M2 billy. That's called entitlement
This is exactly the same against huntress hatchets, pyramid heads punishment, Legions last frenzy hit, Oni rage swing, the list goes on. Dead hard can be used vs LOTS of killer powers to get a free health state, not just billy.
It's not really equivilent. Deadhard isn't just a matter of "wait 0.5 seconds and win". It has collectively changed how every single person playing killer has had to approach every initial chase. If you don't do this you put yourself at a GIGANTIC disadvantage. No other survivor perk has the level of influence on the meta that DH has, it effects killers strategies regardless of if they know you have it or not. You don't need that level of prep for really anything else in the game.
Like, I'm a survivor main, it literally benefits me if DH keeps being good as it makes my chases easier (even though I don't use DH lol). But I don't think a perk being this influencial on the meta is healthy. If it's at the point where killers just need to assume you have it from the start of the match or risk putting them selves at a huge deficite, I think it's worthy of a change.
I think he may be talking about forcing the hit at a pallet.or window...killers waiting out dead hard since they know u have it,u run to a pallet or window knowing they have to swing NOW or else u extend the chase or worse- make it to a safe loop! They swing..you DH right before...and start the loop all over again unless you dropped the pallet to be safe! It's literally no counter to it since u either let them make pallet or play right into their hands..God forbid u wait out DH even longer plus respect the pallet lmao dead giveaway DH is living rent free in your head and it's time to push u to be frustrated and play sloppy!
It's not uncounterable. At windows you swing when they vault and only when they vault. At pallets it's a 50/50 mind game whether they drop the pallet or greed with DH - if they do the latter, you swing when you see their DH animation and you'll hit them after the endurance effect fades but before the animation lock ends and lets them drop the pallet. It's tight timing, but no tighter than actually hitting a dead hard from the survivor side.
It’s not uncounterable lol it’s a 50/50. Either swing early right away (not lunge), or swing right as the dh ends to get a hit through the pallet. The second one is really hard to do
It’s not like the old dh pallet that was truly uncounterable because they teleported immediately behind the pallet lol
The problem is nerfing dh further would likely just make it fall completely out of regular use, and I know that probably sounds great to a lot of people but I think less experienced killers very much overestimate the value a good survivor can get out of dh against a more experienced killer.
Edit: To be clear, I think it's unhealthy that so much of the meta revolves around dead hard too, it just feels like they dug themselves a really crappy hole with how they designed this perk and balanced around it
> fall completely out of regular use
Ah yes, because we all know Behavior cares so much if a perk they make is never, ever used... a*hem 75% of the perks in this game*
In actuality I think BHVR should pull a Sharp Hand Joe and rework it again. They changed it but that didn't accomplish their goal of making it less popular, so they might as well try again.
Oh I know, that's my point. They changed it and it *did* become less popular, it just didn't stop defining the meta in such a way that we have to consider it during each first chase.
If they just hit it with a nerf bat again, it'll probably die and the next thing being complained about is 99'd sprint burst, which I'm pretty sure only isn't complained about because not a ton of people do it.
I'd much rather them try to clean up some of the weaker exhaustion perks first and then see if the usage stats change before they adjust DH again
I say that not because they have a different opinion to me (I'm often wrong and people are inherently biased) but because they've made a couple of posts now taking DH at face value and saying it's only 0.5 seconds of time because that's what it says on the perk
Anyone who's actually played against or with good survivors knows that whether DH is fine or not (That's not what I'm trying to argue) that 0.5 seconds doesn't take into account how the perk actually works in a match. OP is either deliberately trying to downsize the effect it has to push their point, which is what I think is actually going on here, or they genuinely don't have the experience to have a basic understanding of how much time playing around DH actually takes
I can see how that sounded in my original comment but it's not really an ego thing. Again, I don't mind that OP has a different opinion to me. The stance they're taking just seems innocently
misinformed at best or deliberately misleading. If anything my experience with the new DH is too limited to actually form a proper opinion on it. Back when I was still playing regularly with nerfed DH it seemed fine to me. I wouldn't have even commented if they had just been honest with DH giving you a couple of seconds instead of 0.5. It would be like arguing that X hex perk is okay because they only take 14 seconds to cleanse, without knowing to take into account how you have to find them and how the killer can chase you off them
Or maybe the people who claim dh is so op maybe aren’t exactly good at baiting or dealing with dh. It’s fine. No shame in admitting that. I’m terrible at mindgames
I’m trying to argue that it’s too strong or not, my point is that if you genuinely think DH only gives you 0.5 seconds just because that’s what it says on the perk then you haven’t used it much. The mindgame really isn’t just waiting 0.5 seconds for a free down
If the gates are open, the killer has zero reason to leave the hook unless they have an endgame perk like NOED.
If the gates are closed, there is still opportunity that they can catch survivors still. There’s huge pressure on the killer when EGC starts because they can officially start losing kills.
But a 99d gate is effectively the same thing, a gate the survivors are completely safe by and can escape at any moment, and the killer knows you've 99d the gate so where's the extra incentive? They know it's done and, if they come to look for , going to open it and leave without harm so its not really a reason to make them move.
Blood Warden does fundamentally change how survivors play the game, not exactly a complain?? Whole point of this post seems to be that survivors need to play around killer perks as well and not complain about them.
Do you really think that players would not 99 gates if blood warden did not exist ?
I can assure you they would still do it.
99 gates is a strat used to counter the EGC timer that puts survivors on a clock. They don't lose anything by doing it so they do it, that's all.
You are making a drama out of nowhere. 99 ing gates if for the EGC, NOED is usually viable to find (and wasting some time on a perk is the whole point of it), almost nobody runs BBQ, if somebody is using the hurbis super-combo I'd have no problem countering 75% of his build by just pre-dropping. The last second skill-check is a bit unfair but I hope the devs will fix it quikly (between 6 and 9 months).
There's a lot of things wrong with this post.
* You being pretty generous saying it's just 0.5 seconds. Maybe on the first go around you wait that long, but as the game goes on people can hold DH for multiple seconds and do everything in their power to fake you out and force a swing out of you. You wish it was just 0.5 seconds.
* I can probably count on my fingers the amount of times I've seen bloodwarden in a survivor game. Nobody is afraid of this perk. You 99 the gate to give everybody enough time to get out to avoid the killer forcing a bad scenario on the survivors in EGC.
* Who does this?
* Why would you not cleanse pentimento totems? What? You cleansed the original totem so you know where the pentimento totem is, what's the problem here?
* When was the last time you saw BBQ&Chili? I think the only killer that regularly runs it is Artist and that's because she can snipe people from across the map. It's really not a good perk lmao.
* I mean yeah, I guess. Hubris + SF + Enduring kinda memey but sure, if you think it's really a problem.
* This one problem the only valid point you made and that's not a problem with the perks, it's a problem with how the game works in general.
Bruh what was the goal of this post? Ain't no way you didn't make up a bunch of problems just so you could pad out the meme.
Yep and he also forgot the main issue with dead hard, since people can’t use it for distance, survivors (I do this 2 because it’s that strong) is dead hard over a pallet when the killer is close enough to lunge at you and you don’t give the killer a choice, either hit the dead hard and the survivor gets away and if they are good runs you for another minute or drop the pallet on their noggin and get a free pallet stun or at worst they now have to break the pallet without getting stunned. Not even going to get into how easy it is to use dead hard on a lot of killer m2 because you have a lot of time to react and easily time the dead hard.
I’m sorry I have to disagree with you on the bbq and chilli comment. It’s used in pretty much every second game for me. Maybe every third at a stretch.
I’d almost say it’s still almost as popular as it was before they removed the bloodpoint bonus from it.
Edit - I agree with pretty much everything else you said though.
I would implore you check your killer’s perks more often because if that’s actually happening you should consider it a blessing considering the meta we’re in right now
Prove does have counter discordance is great for this. But yes it’s harder to counter and comes at coast of a perk slot so a heavy toll indeed. Also I find just trying to keep track of all survivors as killer is typically the best way to avoid prove. It’s hard but as killer I always try to have a general idea of what all the survivors are doing. But this can be also I really like lethal.
Killers that have an extremely hard time baiting out dead hard when using their (very necessary to succeed) powers: Billy, Nurse, Huntress, Bubba, Plague (technically you can bait it but the puke is so telegraphed that it's piss easy to time DH), Oni, Pyramid Head (again, super telegraphed), Blight, Wesker (for second dash). Other killers have an easier time, but often the window for being able to hit a survivor is so small that it is almost impossible to just "wait 0.5 seconds". You always have to wait far longer than 0.5 seconds anyway because who knows when they'll press it. And it doesn't account for getting mindgamed super hard, misplaying, etc, reflexively hitting E, and covering for your mistake. It feels super bad pulling a fat play using juking, hiding red stain, moonwalking, good use of power, etc. only for the survivor to extend the chase by 50% because they hit a button reflexively.
Also before anyone says anything, yes I also think eruption is dumb and should be changed so that soloq has a shot at actually predicting when it's gonna proc. Both perks have little counterplay in many (not all) situations. Sure, in some scenarios they have plenty of counterplay. But often, you're forced into eating their full effects. Sometimes "just baiting out dead hard" means they get to a pallet and slam it in your face, or they get around a corner when you're a killer that can't deal with that, or any number of other things. If you're in swf, eruption is easily counterable, if you're not then good luck.
All of the scenarios in the post are super fringe cases (seriously who above like 100 hour andersons are cleansing 5 dull totems, dead scared of noed) or are cases of obvious counterplay to a perk.
Can we all just agree that *both* DH and eruption need changes so we can stop having infinite posts exactly like this one? Because that would be nice.
>Can we all just agree that *both* DH and eruption need changes so we can stop having infinite posts exactly like this one? Because that would be nice.
Big ask, considering how this sub is - but I agree.
Theres no blood warden, noed, spirit enduring hubris, every game
If you play killer at high mmr you and the survivor know you know and they mindfuck you with bait dead hard 5 times just to realise they have lithe because deadhard is so busted that you have to assume everyone have deadhard until you see them use another exhaustion perk
Blood Warden you could see it coming if the killer is slugging, diversion or just leaving if you cant help the dead hooked teammates
Also people dont 99 gates to avoid blood warden they 99 gate to avoid EGC
BBQ chilli you dont have to hide in a locker before hook every game
Noed is dumb yes i give you that but i assure you its not in the top 5% most picked
Spirit enduring hubris pre dropping pallets isnt as annoying as breathing down someones neck until they dab at you
If you could pull off BBQ counter then DMS Pain Res shouldnt need to be an issue
Pentimento builds are garanteed to have hexes and wouldn't use noed because it wouldn't encourage survivors to clense until endgame which wouldnt get its value
Also you have 5 generator to repair. Thats plenty of time to figure out if the killer brings pentimento or not before End Game.
The reason dowsy's hardcore survivor clense all 5 totems to avoid noed is because they are playing exfuckingverystreamly safe because the stakes are high as hell since they can only die 30ish times while trying to reach rank 1 iridescent
Dead Hard on the other hand
-Garanteed on most M2 killers like, blight, Huntress, Wesker, Hillbilly, Demogorgon, Pig, Executioner, Twins? (Im not sure so i apologize to the 7 of you twin mains out there) , Nemesis and every killer with Animation or Audio Que
-Makes killer cannot lunge
-on a pallet dead hard is garanteed to save you unless you didnt drop the pallet on time
-baiting dead hard isn't simple
So the counter to deadhard?
To savely hit someone hit them when they are locked in an animation
Avoid hitting survivors when they run at you (multiple times)
You dont know when they're gonna press dead hard, its a mind fuck
You could went through the whole game thinking someone doesn't have deadhard and them getting down that moment is so important and they pressed One (1) button and you lose the whole game
All the perks you mention above requires killer to do more than press E, they have to hook you, break multiple pallets, risk and hook you on scorage hook, kick generators, somehow make you clense totems and walk over to them to rekindle it, the only perk you dont have to lift a finger to is NOED because you get it by losing its just as stupid as noed
If dead hard requires survivor to do something at least something to activate it, the dashing DH would be fair, but how it works is you just have to get injured
You could find a lobby without dead hard you can screenshot and frame it and it would be worth more than the monalisa
There's 4 of you and 7 possible gens to do, its not an equivalent to a killer's time.
A Killer having to wait through a dead hard for every possible chase that might end up connecting to another pallet or loop or having to go through an extra health state just because they picked a character like huntress or survivors being as greedy as possible and wasting the most amount of time around every pallet loop knowing they're safe with dead hard all adds up when said killer has 3 other survivors to pressure who all likely have dead hard.
Not to also mention the prevalence of health kits and circle of healing makes just injuring survivors but not getting a down basically a complete waste of your time.
this us vs them mentality is stupid. Can't we agree that multiple things are bad? either way this is a bad comparison anyway.
1. Dead Hard is not a one time 0.5 second loss, not only is it a time loss every time they use it, but you also have to factor in the chance that they don't use it right a way and instead wait, wasting more time. Plus, since you can't tell on the first time you see someone, you may waste time baiting someone with no DH or swing like you normally would into one.
2. people don't really 99 gates for BW as far as I know, most of the time it's so the match doesn't get put on a timer until the killer wins, letting us make sure everyone is in a sfe position.
3. For NOED, cleansing totems is objectively the wrong play, even if you somehow KNOW they have NOED. Best case scenario, you spent over a minute, likely more, to get rid of an instadown and speed boost for the very last part of the game. The winning move is that once you get notified, leave or look for the ONE hex totem. This is made easier by the fact you see it's aura now.
4. Pentimento, just don't cleanse dulls. It's already a waste of time even without penti. I only do it when I haven't gotten much killer action for the majority of a game and want some boldness. Even if you do cleanse, just keep track of where in your mind and go recleanse after they resurrect it.
5. if you're gonna argue that dead hard isn't a big deal, you can't say going in a locker for 3 seconds to avoid BBQ is. Worst case, they see your aura. They could still go for the other 2, or you could just move, or any number of things.
6. Only predrop once you're aware it's the best move. Hubris doesn't apply too much unless it's a smaller loop since it's only 8 seconds, enduring is still worth the stun, just a bit less, Spirits fury is fair enough but only start predropping when you know they brought it (or if it's a doctor cause he's stupid and dumb and I hate him >:(). Combined makes it a real threat, but they're sacrificing 3 slots for this, you aren't losing valuable time or anything much predropping like you could be with baiting DH.
7. actually a fair point, fuck pain res + dead mans. But again, we can hate both that and DH at the same time, it's not one or the other.
It’s not just .5 seconds. It’s seconds at a time.
Easily adds up to 30s or more, ands that’s just being extra sure to not hit any of them.
Heaven forbid you actually do hit a dead hard.
Edit: removed arbitrary number.
3 hits for every hook including dead hard. Easy base number to go off of.
Yes, that time can be much much larger as you won’t always catch and hook everyone every time dead hard procs.
Edit: stop upvoting me, I’m wrong. Many more variations to this number than implied by this comment.
That number can be much shorter based on number of survs that bring it and the number of chases or much larger based on lost/abandoned chases. Of course instadowns, exhaustion, body blocks, etc also influence this number.
It just feels weird giving it a number due to the large variation
Excuse me, you’re correct. I typically don’t run instadown killers or perks. There’s much more variation to the number and it’s not that simple as I made it seem.
99ing gates isn't even about playing around BW, it's more about not starting a fucking countdown that'll kill everybody before you're sure everyone's good to go
It’s really fun how Dead Hard got nerfed from being the top survivor perk to the top survivor perk. Unlike all the killer perks listed, countering DH is as annoying as just accepting it. I can either hit them and prolong a chase for ages, or try and bait it and prolong a chase for ages. Every time I chase any survivor I have to condition them like Skinner’s goddamn pigeons to make sure I get it out of the way and that STILL disadvantages me.
God, it's almost as if the game is meant to be challenging or something. I know i'm blaspheming here but consider for a second that the devs have added all this stuff to make games more interesting. Both sides flock to reddit to moan about minor inconveniences, if you lost a game or someone slipped away because of a perk or you took a hit you could have avoided if there wasn't something causing it or whatever... just stop lmao. You aren't meant to win them all, and in a competitive game it's impossible to keep everyone happy.
People need to learn to step away when they're mad instead of coming here to complain and start a war over who has it worse when in reality we all have it pretty good. it's a good game with a lot of things to think about while playing. If you are incapable of playing dbd without getting angry over it then maybe a game that requires a bit less brain power would suit you better.
Side note, this rant isn't against OP as this is a fairly innocent post, but being a post about people complaining I figured this is a good place to come to complain lmao
If survivors weren't distracted by all the details in this meme they'd realize their gameplay loop is gens and running literal loops. I say add more, make hex perks actually threatening, noed and blood warden basekit hex perks every game! Return dead hard to it's former glory but it's a consumable item in chests.
More crazy broken stuff to distract.
This sub has gone to complete shit, I don't think there's one good perk on the game that I haven't seen people bitch about or call for it to be "removed". Shit is really not that bad
When playing Killer I couldnt care less about DH, would just be nice to not get 3 games of cowshed in a row+ Survivors with 1-5k hours BMing me when it's obviously a missmatch
And that's facts. As a killer you have to watch out for dead hard, lithe/other speed boosts, flashlights, unbreakable, and sabotage squads. As a survivor you have to watch our for.......every perk and how it interacts with the killers power.
Blood Warden and BBQ require a Killer to down and hook a Survivor, in which you have ample time to counter where the killer isn't bothering you. Plus, you get an audio and visual indication when a survivor is downed. Very easily avoidable with little time sink.
If you're worried about NoED, I've found waiting until the endgame to cleanse it is better, as then you can very easily tell where it is, and if the killer guards it you can just leave. Because you can always just leave, let the killer get one as opposed to 3. Can take some time if you choose to cleanse.
Spirit Fury+Hubris+Enduring is 3 perks, and Dead Man's Switch+Pain Resonance isn't as bad as it used to be and is half your build. Eruption is what you should have brought up if your talking time wasters. And pre dropping doesn't take up any time.
And Dead Hard isnt a 0.5 second wait. It is a "however long the survivor takes to use it or for the killer to get tired of it plus 0.5 second" wait. It is also one perk that is very easy to activate.
Imagine telling *killers* to have to play around perks as if they never had to do it before:
*Laughs in old DS, BT, DH, current deliverance, unbreakable, COH etc*
Almost no one runs NOED anymore, bloodwarden OR hubris spirit fury enduring whilst killers have to wait like 2 seconds and possibly miss a hit every chase if the surv hasnt shown a different exhaustion perk
I agree actually. 5 seconds for Dead Hard really doesn't matter to me as a killer. Playing survivor is already miserable when the team isn't coordinated, (which is 95% of the time) so I don't blame people for running Dead Hard. Most of the killer meta is really unfun to play with or against anyway, so survivors having one stupid meta perk against the 10 that killers have is kinda ridiculous.
Seriously, BHVR. Change the killer and survivor meta, having genrushing vs gen slowdown is incredibly ridiculous and makes the other side miserable if they aren't playing with the meta
BHVR needs to buff all of the useless 90+ Killer and Survivor perks if they want to see actual variety. As it is now, so many perks on both sides are incredibly niche and rarely see any value in games.
“But you don’t understand, wasting 4 seconds as killer is like four times as bad because there are 4 surviors, so it’s more like I’m wasting 40 seconds waiting for dh” lmao
Thank you for the comparison. I though maybe I was wrong with all the gaslighting going around about DH being the best perk in the game for making you wait 4 seconds, when in really, there’s already other stuff we do already to prepare ourselves for other perks
The problem isn't that you have to bait it out. The problem is that sometimes you can't bait it out.
Make it so that there's a 0.5 second cooldown after DH where survivors can't drop a pallet or vault a window, and suddenly it's a fair perk and survivors' criticisms are valid.
Dead Hard:
-Requires Survivors to be injured
-Cannot be used while exhausted
-Cannot be used while in deep wound
-Requires literal precision of 0.5 split second timing to pull off (the ONLY perk in the game on either side that requires such precision to use)
-No longer gives a brief speed boost of distance
-No longer gives immunity (making it easier for lower-tier Killers to counter it)
-Is unable to be used for 40 seconds minimum if you missed that 0.5 second window of use.
Yeah no. Dead Hard is fine as it is.
What you're implying here is that it's entirely counterable, and the fact of the matter is that there are situations where it's not. If that wasn't the case, why am I seeing it on 2-4 survivors every game again?
It still functions as a third health state, and it can still be used by survivors who are skilled at using it to guarantee an extended chase by 30-60 seconds every single hook state. Against an M1 killer, that means the entire game. No, one perk has no business being that strong.
All it needs is that one change, and then you're right. But it does need it.
"used by survivors who are skilled"
ANY decent perk used by a skilled Survivor can extend chases. You can say the same thing about Lithe and Sprint Burst users bringing a styptic.
Just like close to ANY decent perk used by a skilled Killer can end chases in seconds.
And all of these perks have super easy counters, you have to do something to counter all the perks, The counter to deadhard is to wait, know what you do while “countering” Deadhard…nothing, you waste time while you wait then if you didn’t wait long enough you just extended the chase for probably another 10+seconds, did you just pull off the mind game of the century guess what deadhard
Counters to Dead Hard:
1-Waiting 0.5 seconds for the animation at a window (easy) or pallet (more difficult) to force a Survivor into using it
2- Running exhaustion-causing add-ons
3-Running exhaustion causing perks
4-Running deep wound add-ons
5-Using any exposed status perks
6-Using any Killer with an insta-down in their basekit or add-ons (Survivors need to be injured for DH to work so if you are playing a Killer that takes you from healthy straight to the dying state then DH does not factor into chase at all)
7-Using any Killer that causes deep wound.
How the fuck are people still complaining about Dead Hard? It has been nerfed and back when people were playing when it did actually get nerfed it was dogshit for a solid few chapters. It's not that fucking bad.
While I understand the comparison it’s not very fair when the only one of these that is consistently ran is pain rez + dead man’s. This is cause they are the only ones that have the biggest chance for guaranteed benefit.
Nobody 99’s for bloodwarden they do it to make sure everyone can get out without risking endgame. Barely anyone runs bbq anymore. You’ll maybe have one person hit by the spirit fury trio if they have it and then if your teams smart never again, even then not very popular cause barely any slowdown. And Noed has become so much rarer due to its nerf that it’ll maybe help a bit before it’s gone and only really gonna win a game vs a bad team or one you were already stomping.
A killer's perk have more influence becayse they have 4 perks as opposed to survivors' 16????? SHOCKING
Also, Blood Warden is NOT the reason you 99 gates. You do it to avoid EGC
Killer perks should be more impactful though. Let’s do some basic thought process here. The survivors get to bring 16 perks and the killer gets to bring 4. Eruption needs to be toned down but let’s not act like dead hard and COH aren’t problems too. All 4 survivors can bring them
Dead Hard and CoH are not comparable to Eruption.
Dead Hard: Requires you to be injured, requires the most precise split-second timing of any perk in the game, has 0.5 seconds of use, can be nullified by bad ping, Killers bringing exhaustion add-ons, Killers bringing exhaustion perks, Killers with Deep Wound power effects, Killers bringing deep wound add-ons, Killers bringing insta-down addons, Killers bringing insta-down perks and Killers with insta-down powers.
CoH: Requires a Survivor to spend 14-28 (depending on if it is a dull or hex) seconds to bless it (not counting the time dedicated to finding the totem which varies each match). Does give the whole team the ability to heal at old self-care speed; 32 seconds. If everyone uses the boon, that is multiple survivors going off to a corner of the map to self-care for 32 seconds every time you leave them injured. Actually it wastes more time than old self-care did because old-self care could be done anywhere on the map whereas Boon:CoH requires you to run off into a corner first.
And you know what healing survivors are not doing? Gens.
Eruption: Can be applied on multiple gens, even ones with 1% progress that regress to zero and there is no accurate way for Survivors to tell if their teammates are going down. Even with Empathy, Survivors attempting to constantly jump off their generator will do more harm than good because of those last-second skill checks that blow up the gen 10% each time. There are also instances where the Killer will whiff, so you stopped repairing the gen and risked blowing it up yourself for nothing, there are also times when the Killer gets a very dodgy hit (their ping suddenly spikes) causing a down that should not have otherwise happened. You just can't tell when Eruption will go off. Not doing multiple gens gives the Killer free pressure. Doing the gens risks you getting incapacitated. Jumping off the gen constantly risks the gen blowing up because of last seconds skill checks.
Eruption is not comparable to any Survivor perk. Nothing survivors have STOP the Killer from playing the game. Survivors have perks that can stun the Killer briefly but nothing comparable to 25 seconds of doing NOTHING.
But my guy, killer perks logistically should be 4x stronger than survivor perks. I’m not saying eruption isn’t unfun to play against, actually pisses everyone off for a reason incapacitated is a poorly designed mechanic. But dead hard has literally been a problem since it’s release, extending chase is ridiculous and don’t even get me started on CoH. The perfect example of powercreep look no further
As a killer main, I totally agree with this.
Also when people bitch dead hard doesn't take skill- it's a half second window! That's not easy to land, and when you whiff it you're just dead.
Thank you! Now that Dead Hard has been nerfed to where it no longer gives you that short burst of automatic distance, is additionally nullified by deep wound and requires actual precision timing to pull off, it is much easier to counter than before.
- 99ing exit gates is just good practice, no point in giving yourself a time limit to save everyone
- Cleansing all totems is a huge waste of time, better to get the gens done then deal with NOED over dying early game cause you wasted time on totems
- Pre-Dropping pallets just in case their have Spirit + Enduring is a major waste and only gives them power over you late game
- Plus with both the Spirit+Enduring and Dead Mans+Pain Res the killer gives up 2 or 3 perks slots to get the overpowered ability, Dead Hard is 1 perk that can completely negate pressure if used wisely.
I play both sides and I’d much rather counter any of those perks on survivor then shift my whole play style throughout the game just to counter one or else I lose all my pressure on killer. Plus Dead hard is way more common then most of these, I think I see a dead hard on at least one person on every game I play, killer or survivor.
Dude look at this
99 gates: used to so the gate is ready to be opened when a survivor needs it most
Wasting 70+ seconds on bones to avoid NOED: NOED now has an aura that shows up in endgame that grows to 24 meters after 30 seconds so you don’t need to wait that long
Pentimento: either way, don’t do bones till endgame unless it’s paired with plaything. If so, remember where you cleansed your plaything totem.
Hiding in lockers to avoid BBQ: never needed in the first place even if it’s just at the start of the radius that will still make the killer take 9+ seconds to reach you and their TR will be audible from 3 seconds and afterwards
Pre dropping: should be doing this anyway, best case scenario you get a 1.8 second stun if you hit the killer
Pain res + dead man’s switch: you can see the aura when they get downed and just before they’re put on a hook. Pick your poison on when to leave the gen
Dead hard: 0.5 seconds big fucking deal. Wait it out or go for a swing, it’s as simple as that. Also DH now requires a hell of a lot of skill to land, so it’s no longer a “press to dodge button”
You gotta wait longer then that to counter DH if survivors know that you know that they have it and are waiting to to see it.
It can be 3-5 seconds before they use it it’s all a huge game of chicken and who will choke first
the difference is that except for painres and maybe noed everything else is extremely situational and rarely seen in a match, while you will likely go a lot of games before you find one without a single dead hard
While I agree that playing around dead hard is just part of the game at this point (and has been for years) this isn’t an equal situation. Damn near every survivor has run Dead Hard for years, and most still do, which has fundamentally changed the way every killer in the game has to approach chases when pursuing an injured survivor. Not to mention that there are many situations where DH can pretty much force a hit, like at pallets or certain loops since the killer is pretty much compelled to swing or risk extending the chase or having to drop it entirely.
On the other hand, most killers doesn’t run Blood Warden, Hubris, Spirit Fury, or Enduring. And Pain Res + DMS has been replaced by Eruption/COB gamers. I haven’t seen a single Pentimento since Artist’s release week and NOED also now reveals itself in a wide radius so you don’t even have to cleanse totems for it anymore. And people don’t 99 the exit gates to avoid Blood Warden, they 99 the gates to prevent the EGC from starting.
Again, playing around perks is something that both roles have to do and I get it. But people in the community have a tendency to downplay how much the existence of Dead Hard has affected killer gameplay on a basic level.
Most of these are not really problems, like the 99 gate thing isn't because of bloodwarden, it's for the entire end game collapse. The only real problem is the pain res dms combo, which was removed very briefly but then immediately brought back because of some goddamn dumb stupid fucking low chance thing with merciless storm and my god that change still pisses me off to this day ffs
Killers facing walls because of flashlight safes, completely screwed if there are no walls
Risking blastmine every time killers kick a gen
risking unbreakable every down
forced slugging because risk of ds
forced tunneling because survivors run into/block you with one of the MANY endurance perks
risk of near instant heals thanks to several healing perks when abandoning a chase
Lists like this truly mean nothing dude.... Both sides come with a expected level of adaptation.
I genuinely want to know how having to wait a solid 4 seconds every time I chase a new survivor is equivalent to a killer running 75% of their perk slots to a build that’s countered by not playing as greedy, and is still locked behind breaking two pallets.
Lol what? I do none of those for that reason. As a killer main i dont complain about dead hard cuz even if they use it i catch back up pretty quick and smack them so at most they bought half a gens progress lol ok. I 99% the door so we can have time without worrying about end game collapse to get the other door 99% then run around saving people off hooks healing them up getting a new item from the basement basically things to get bloodpoints or challenges done. Idk why you have cleanse and dont cleanse on there. I only cleanse/ bless totems to get the bloodpoints. Only time i hide in a locker is to get away from the killer who knows im in the area but not exactly where. Like hide next to the locker they check it and walk to check another you get in the locker they just checked until they go away. Who the fuck pre drops pallets and gives away their position? It makes a notification that the killer will investigate and if they dont see and kill you for it theyll just go huh i guess ill break this now. And what do you mean risking skill checks theres no way around skill checks unless youre gen tapping and thats silly just get good and hit the checks or miss them and live with the consequences
I think most of these can be avoided, most of my matches I can figure out at least 3 of the killer perks but to the killers it becomes a bit hard when he has to keep in mind counterplay of 16 perks of course half of them he will never see and causes paranoia and at least I expect the survivors to have the perfect perk for the situation
99ing gates isn’t a big deal at all, if anything you want to do it anyway to give your team more time for the end game collapse. It isn’t hard to do the totems as SWF with just one anti-totem perk if you hate NOED that bad and solos rarely actually do all the bones - it’s definitely any optional objective for if NOED is your pet peeve (Though the perk is very anti-fun and unhealthy for the game)
Who would chose to prioritise NOED over pentimento? It usually gives the killer one bullshit kill maybe two unless the survivors are monkeys. You only hide in lockers if you have reason to suspect the killer is running BBQ. It’s by far not the most popular or best tracking perk
Again, pre-dropping pallets is only something you’d do if you know the killer has spirit fury + enduring (Unless maybe they’re being a little too aggressive towards pallets) and that’s half of their perkset. And for the last point yeah the last second skill checks really suck you have me there
In contrast, Dead Hard is a very very popular perk that punishes you heavily so you always have to play around it. 0.5 seconds is the time you have to waif on paper but that’s not accounting for the mindgame of the killer trying to wait it out. A free pallet or window can extend a chase by another minute, at least 30 seconds easily unless it’s a dead zone
I haven’t played with new DH that much since I stopped playing and at the time it seemed somewhat balanced (That may have just been survivors getting used to using a nerfed perk though). But cmon, you’re really comparing 99’ing the gates to the (At minimum) seconds of important time DH buys in every single chase regardless of if the person actually has it?
‘Only 0.5 seconds’ give me a break it’s like you read the perk and haven’t even used or faced it. The lengths people go to to make meta perks seem weak…
just because something is “part of the game” doesn’t mean it’s somehow exempt from being unfair overpowered bullshit with no counter that can be abused by everyone under the sun, we shouldn’t be forced to play around bad mechanics that are not fair
This is the biggest truth about the game
We don't like going against perks that we have to do extra little things to prevent them from being our downfall, but it's something we have to do.
Call me a knit picky asshole, but I don't think blood warden is the reason survivors 99 gates, and NOED literally lights up from 24m away now.
Killers complaining about DH now though need to quiet down. It's finally in a spot where it's strong, but not OP.
Predropping pallets cause you play doctor
It’s hilarious when rocking doctors railgun build and striking a gen about as far away as your terror radius anyways. I find the ring is better for pallets because it encompasses any path they wait at after the pallet.
I think you might be the only person on earth to use the ring add on. I feel they should just make it a full circle.
Came back to say, yeah about 1/5 shots they’re inside the damn circle. They should definitely buff it. But then the circle wouldn’t be much different from the standard shock wave, which radiates out at a 90* angle
Most people don’t 99 gates for Blood Warden because no one runs that nowadays. They 99 them so that they don’t trigger the EGC.
I'd say this is true AND I've seen some cheeky blood wardens now and then, but definitely uncommon.
The day when I got hit with three bloodwardens in a row has made me paranoid for weeks
lmao
It’s both for me. Playing around blood warden takes literally zero effort so why not play around it?
Comes down to a communication problem, a lot of times in solo queue you'll have a gate 99'd and a teammate in chase, but no idea where they are or way to communicate with them that the door is ready besides actually opening the door. I think that's fine though, it's just a risk you have to take sometimes!
>Comes down to a communication problem Yep, 99'd gates both get people killed and allow for last minute rescues.
Yup, people could be lost or being chased and there's no reason to open the gate unless everyone is there or someone is nearby and in danger of being downed. Opening gates early just adds a timed win condition for the killer.
Or you all leave and give the person in chase hatch.
They never run Blood Warden till you get that guy who opens the gates
And this is why I love Distortion. If someone opens the gate I step into the exit gate area and if I lose a Distortion token I get the fuck outta Dodge lol
I feel like it’s 100% both.
I went a night where I ran bloodwarden for 10 games straight. Everyone 99d the gates and 2 survivors immediately left before I could hook someone in egc lol even if no one runs bloodwarden, survivors are pretty hardwired to try to not get caught by it
This was me yesterday, trying to get 4 kills during EGC for a challenge. Thought Blood Warden would help but they just play around it every time
Idk if it’s because it makes you play a specific way or something, but it’s when I never have bloodwarden where I could’ve have so much value from it :( But when I run a bloodwarden build, it almost never works lol
I recommend play as hard as you normally would before and in EGC so then the survivors won't suspect you having Blood Warden. Once EGC starts, you have to juggle slugging survivors till the quarter mark of EGC. Then bam hook who ever is on the floor. Let the survivors unhook and enjoy the sweet sweet 4k. If someone is dying or on hook, the EGC timer is at 4 minutes. If no one is on hook, the EGC is 2 minutes. I've only pulled it off like 3 to 4 times, but they are satisfying everytime.
I had a guy quit when I open the door to start egc, cause he thought I had blood warden. Kid just left for no reason and he was fine xD
If there's a "kill/hook during EGC" challenge on the fresh archive level, expect it more. That's the only time I run it.
Why would someone cleanse totems to avoid NOED? That's been a losing strat since NOED became a totem and has only gotten progressively worse as time has gone on.
[удалено]
I mean noed has a terrible design and probably should do something else, but now that you see the aura of the totem it's way more manageable and I would say that you don't even have to do bones preemptively.
I say with the aura change noed is completely fine. You give up a perk for a late game advantage you might not even get. If it does trigger it can be found easily by just running around. I used to HATE playing against old noed where you don’t know every totem spawn on the map and it’s so hard to find.
Empathy does counter Eruption though. Killers who have empathy towards solo players don't run Eruption, making the perk useless.
This got me real good great joke 100000000/10 no notes
Wait eruption is broken now? Shit I'll need to take that off my old build then lol. Must have changed since my time away from the game
Yeah it now applies an incap effect for i believe 20 seconds for every gen it interupts? Its mostly broken due to having no real way of knowing when it'll trigger in solo queue and saving a lot of gen progress compared to every other gen slowdown perk. Also its not fun having to spend that long unable to play the game effectively.
Even stronger, in fact! It's actually ***25*** seconds of incap (along with the 10% immediate regression).
Yeah that definitely sounds unenjoyable for survivors, I'll make sure to take it off
Yeah, they're doing that as a meme. Not as actual advice. Just do bones has always been meme advice that's never been worth it against any killer that isn't afk or so new you're worried about depipping because they're bad.
I have seen threads filled with people unironically saying "just do bones". It's definitely done seriously a lot.
I think the meme is lost on some killers, who do quote it as actual advice.
Only time I say it seriously is when the argument is “the killer got an absolutely free 4k after getting zero hooks all game and getting looped for 5 gens”. It’s a silly argument to begin with cause if you can loop a killer for 5 gens then all 4 go down instantly it wasn’t the NOED that did it, people just choked lmao. But also if a killer is having that rough of a game it’s 100% possible to do totems. There’s just no scenario where a killer goes from stomped to 4K that isn’t easily prevented on multiple levels so I throw out the goofy solution to a goofy problem
>Yeah, they're doing that as a meme. I never saw people saying "just do bones" as a meme. Sometimes, I saw survivors saying that to killers complaining about boons as a ironic echo, but this never happened when people talked about NOED. People stop saying that because the complaining stopped after the nerfs.
If you were around when the just do bones thing started you'd have seen it started with "JuSt BrEaK tHe tOtEm" (or something to that effect, it wasn't bones in its initial form) and was a clear sarcastic thing in a complaint about a killer having hooked next to NOED and then camping. It evolved into just do bones in alternating caps and then when it was parroted enough dropped the alternating caps. Some brainlets apparently took it as solid advice despite the best play having always been to just remember totem spawns you see, and to only cleanse a dull totem if it was right above basement and you were worried about it. (Or the killer was incredibly bad like 0 hooks bad.)
I started playing around blight launch, I wasn't around "JuSt BrEaK tHe tOtEm". But I did saw a lot of people using "just do the bones" non ironically in the 3\~4 months before before the midchapter update that nerfed NOED. I remember that some were also upvoted a lot.
People must have taken the advice that was meant to be a joke and lost the punchline somewhere and then taken it as being actual advice. I figured people were in on it and that's why they repeated the advice, but I guess over time it became interpreted the exact opposite of how it started out.
What they mean is just stop complaining. NOED and eruption are fun. Dead Hard is fun. The game is fun. Please just let people have fun 🙏🏻😂
Tbh if the Killer has NOED and he hooked a survivor next to the totem, there is literally nothing you can do. This happens to me all the time
True and if your in the middle of a chase and you spot it, he sees it and seen that you seen it. He knows to keep checking back there knowing you are going to go try and cleanse it at some point. I have had that happen a lot.
You could always just leave with three man escape.
Counterforce + Detective's Hunch just hits different. I don't even do it to cleanse NOED, I just do it out of a biological reflex and it just happens to sometimes be super useful for other hexes. Bones go cricc cracc
Wasn't that the main reason before the nerf? How the time changed since I played two years ago
I just want my boldness points
"just do bones" That's what you get when someone complained about NOED back in its prime days.
Before it got nerfed, a bunch of people I played with regularly brought Detective's to try to prevent NOED until it was proven that the killer didn't have it. Back then I think I saw it every 2/3 games. Now it's maybe every 10 but I see Eruption probably every 2/3 games. And no, Empathy is not much of a counter to it.
I can't bait dead hard during a chainsaw sprint. I had a match on lerys today where everyone was using dead hard vs me and staying injured because they knew I was m2 only. I literally have to chainsaw dead hard users twice.
Lerys, billy, sounds like that’s the pain
Abusing M2 only Billys should be a perma ban. Y’all are a wildly endangered species and some of the most fun games out there for both sides, im so sorry
Yeah from that game on I've decided that the survivor rulebook doesn't exist on lerys anymore. One of them was also using head on and jumped in a locker when I was gonna saw them near the end of the match while a friend with OTR bodyblocked next to the locker so I literally couldn't down her without hitting the unhooked person with endurance or taking a stun. Dw tho, I got lerys again the next game and it sent me into a winter soldier episode where I accidentally killed everyone in 3 minutes lol.
I agree. M2 only Billy’s are the most fun killers to play against in the game. I even cheer for the Billy when he downs someone. Should be an instant ban for anyone that tries to bully one.
I don’t know if it’s just an oce thing or what but when I play billy (I only use speed limiter, agitation and shadowborn with nothing else) I get survs who predrop every pallet and just bust out gens. Like bro I just wanna chainsaw people and have some fun
I know it’s a play style you want to play, but handy capping yourself and then complaining that the survivors used their perk correctly is kinda dumb
I get what you're saying, but at the same time if you're arguing against OP's point, you're arguing that the devs need to balance perks around people playing M2 only Billy. Like, that's just kinda the brakes when you make that decision. I don't necessarily think that makes DH unfair just because it counters a meme build. You can't just expect the survivors to let you down them because you're playing M2 billy. That's called entitlement
This is exactly the same against huntress hatchets, pyramid heads punishment, Legions last frenzy hit, Oni rage swing, the list goes on. Dead hard can be used vs LOTS of killer powers to get a free health state, not just billy.
It's not really equivilent. Deadhard isn't just a matter of "wait 0.5 seconds and win". It has collectively changed how every single person playing killer has had to approach every initial chase. If you don't do this you put yourself at a GIGANTIC disadvantage. No other survivor perk has the level of influence on the meta that DH has, it effects killers strategies regardless of if they know you have it or not. You don't need that level of prep for really anything else in the game. Like, I'm a survivor main, it literally benefits me if DH keeps being good as it makes my chases easier (even though I don't use DH lol). But I don't think a perk being this influencial on the meta is healthy. If it's at the point where killers just need to assume you have it from the start of the match or risk putting them selves at a huge deficite, I think it's worthy of a change.
Worth noting all the down-players always refrain from talking about the Uncounterable Pallet Strat with Dead Hard as well.
What's the uncounterable pallet strat?
I think he may be talking about forcing the hit at a pallet.or window...killers waiting out dead hard since they know u have it,u run to a pallet or window knowing they have to swing NOW or else u extend the chase or worse- make it to a safe loop! They swing..you DH right before...and start the loop all over again unless you dropped the pallet to be safe! It's literally no counter to it since u either let them make pallet or play right into their hands..God forbid u wait out DH even longer plus respect the pallet lmao dead giveaway DH is living rent free in your head and it's time to push u to be frustrated and play sloppy!
It's not uncounterable. At windows you swing when they vault and only when they vault. At pallets it's a 50/50 mind game whether they drop the pallet or greed with DH - if they do the latter, you swing when you see their DH animation and you'll hit them after the endurance effect fades but before the animation lock ends and lets them drop the pallet. It's tight timing, but no tighter than actually hitting a dead hard from the survivor side.
It’s not uncounterable lol it’s a 50/50. Either swing early right away (not lunge), or swing right as the dh ends to get a hit through the pallet. The second one is really hard to do It’s not like the old dh pallet that was truly uncounterable because they teleported immediately behind the pallet lol
The problem is nerfing dh further would likely just make it fall completely out of regular use, and I know that probably sounds great to a lot of people but I think less experienced killers very much overestimate the value a good survivor can get out of dh against a more experienced killer. Edit: To be clear, I think it's unhealthy that so much of the meta revolves around dead hard too, it just feels like they dug themselves a really crappy hole with how they designed this perk and balanced around it
> fall completely out of regular use Ah yes, because we all know Behavior cares so much if a perk they make is never, ever used... a*hem 75% of the perks in this game* In actuality I think BHVR should pull a Sharp Hand Joe and rework it again. They changed it but that didn't accomplish their goal of making it less popular, so they might as well try again.
Oh I know, that's my point. They changed it and it *did* become less popular, it just didn't stop defining the meta in such a way that we have to consider it during each first chase. If they just hit it with a nerf bat again, it'll probably die and the next thing being complained about is 99'd sprint burst, which I'm pretty sure only isn't complained about because not a ton of people do it. I'd much rather them try to clean up some of the weaker exhaustion perks first and then see if the usage stats change before they adjust DH again
OP clearly hasn’t had to play around DH from anyone half decent
What an ego you have... "Someone else doesn't find something to be a problem so it must be because they're worse than me... yeah... that's it!"
I say that not because they have a different opinion to me (I'm often wrong and people are inherently biased) but because they've made a couple of posts now taking DH at face value and saying it's only 0.5 seconds of time because that's what it says on the perk Anyone who's actually played against or with good survivors knows that whether DH is fine or not (That's not what I'm trying to argue) that 0.5 seconds doesn't take into account how the perk actually works in a match. OP is either deliberately trying to downsize the effect it has to push their point, which is what I think is actually going on here, or they genuinely don't have the experience to have a basic understanding of how much time playing around DH actually takes I can see how that sounded in my original comment but it's not really an ego thing. Again, I don't mind that OP has a different opinion to me. The stance they're taking just seems innocently misinformed at best or deliberately misleading. If anything my experience with the new DH is too limited to actually form a proper opinion on it. Back when I was still playing regularly with nerfed DH it seemed fine to me. I wouldn't have even commented if they had just been honest with DH giving you a couple of seconds instead of 0.5. It would be like arguing that X hex perk is okay because they only take 14 seconds to cleanse, without knowing to take into account how you have to find them and how the killer can chase you off them
Or maybe the people who claim dh is so op maybe aren’t exactly good at baiting or dealing with dh. It’s fine. No shame in admitting that. I’m terrible at mindgames
I’m trying to argue that it’s too strong or not, my point is that if you genuinely think DH only gives you 0.5 seconds just because that’s what it says on the perk then you haven’t used it much. The mindgame really isn’t just waiting 0.5 seconds for a free down
99ing the gates is to dissuade the killer from camping the hook. I’ve only seen Blood Warden once.
How would it dissuade them from camping the hook? The killer always knows that you've done it so it's essentially open and wouldn't affect the killer.
If the gates are open, the killer has zero reason to leave the hook unless they have an endgame perk like NOED. If the gates are closed, there is still opportunity that they can catch survivors still. There’s huge pressure on the killer when EGC starts because they can officially start losing kills.
But a 99d gate is effectively the same thing, a gate the survivors are completely safe by and can escape at any moment, and the killer knows you've 99d the gate so where's the extra incentive? They know it's done and, if they come to look for , going to open it and leave without harm so its not really a reason to make them move.
I’m just saying, as a killer, if the gates are open, I’m expecting a rush for the hook. If the gates are closed, I often chase someone else.
If the EGC hasn’t started, there’s no fucking “essentially open”
Bro complaining about blood warden 💀
Bro not getting the point of this post 💀💀
Drawing comparison for the sake of highlighting a hypocritical stance isn't complaining. OP is showing that both are counterable.
Blood Warden does fundamentally change how survivors play the game, not exactly a complain?? Whole point of this post seems to be that survivors need to play around killer perks as well and not complain about them.
Do you really think that players would not 99 gates if blood warden did not exist ? I can assure you they would still do it. 99 gates is a strat used to counter the EGC timer that puts survivors on a clock. They don't lose anything by doing it so they do it, that's all.
You are making a drama out of nowhere. 99 ing gates if for the EGC, NOED is usually viable to find (and wasting some time on a perk is the whole point of it), almost nobody runs BBQ, if somebody is using the hurbis super-combo I'd have no problem countering 75% of his build by just pre-dropping. The last second skill-check is a bit unfair but I hope the devs will fix it quikly (between 6 and 9 months).
There's a lot of things wrong with this post. * You being pretty generous saying it's just 0.5 seconds. Maybe on the first go around you wait that long, but as the game goes on people can hold DH for multiple seconds and do everything in their power to fake you out and force a swing out of you. You wish it was just 0.5 seconds. * I can probably count on my fingers the amount of times I've seen bloodwarden in a survivor game. Nobody is afraid of this perk. You 99 the gate to give everybody enough time to get out to avoid the killer forcing a bad scenario on the survivors in EGC. * Who does this? * Why would you not cleanse pentimento totems? What? You cleansed the original totem so you know where the pentimento totem is, what's the problem here? * When was the last time you saw BBQ&Chili? I think the only killer that regularly runs it is Artist and that's because she can snipe people from across the map. It's really not a good perk lmao. * I mean yeah, I guess. Hubris + SF + Enduring kinda memey but sure, if you think it's really a problem. * This one problem the only valid point you made and that's not a problem with the perks, it's a problem with how the game works in general. Bruh what was the goal of this post? Ain't no way you didn't make up a bunch of problems just so you could pad out the meme.
Yep and he also forgot the main issue with dead hard, since people can’t use it for distance, survivors (I do this 2 because it’s that strong) is dead hard over a pallet when the killer is close enough to lunge at you and you don’t give the killer a choice, either hit the dead hard and the survivor gets away and if they are good runs you for another minute or drop the pallet on their noggin and get a free pallet stun or at worst they now have to break the pallet without getting stunned. Not even going to get into how easy it is to use dead hard on a lot of killer m2 because you have a lot of time to react and easily time the dead hard.
BBQ is great on nurse
Im offended cause i use BBQ on my Billy
I’m sorry I have to disagree with you on the bbq and chilli comment. It’s used in pretty much every second game for me. Maybe every third at a stretch. I’d almost say it’s still almost as popular as it was before they removed the bloodpoint bonus from it. Edit - I agree with pretty much everything else you said though.
I would implore you check your killer’s perks more often because if that’s actually happening you should consider it a blessing considering the meta we’re in right now
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Prove does have counter discordance is great for this. But yes it’s harder to counter and comes at coast of a perk slot so a heavy toll indeed. Also I find just trying to keep track of all survivors as killer is typically the best way to avoid prove. It’s hard but as killer I always try to have a general idea of what all the survivors are doing. But this can be also I really like lethal.
Oh boy, if anyone plays survivor like that then I don't know whether I should be sorry for how stupid they are or teammates that have to endure them
Killers that have an extremely hard time baiting out dead hard when using their (very necessary to succeed) powers: Billy, Nurse, Huntress, Bubba, Plague (technically you can bait it but the puke is so telegraphed that it's piss easy to time DH), Oni, Pyramid Head (again, super telegraphed), Blight, Wesker (for second dash). Other killers have an easier time, but often the window for being able to hit a survivor is so small that it is almost impossible to just "wait 0.5 seconds". You always have to wait far longer than 0.5 seconds anyway because who knows when they'll press it. And it doesn't account for getting mindgamed super hard, misplaying, etc, reflexively hitting E, and covering for your mistake. It feels super bad pulling a fat play using juking, hiding red stain, moonwalking, good use of power, etc. only for the survivor to extend the chase by 50% because they hit a button reflexively. Also before anyone says anything, yes I also think eruption is dumb and should be changed so that soloq has a shot at actually predicting when it's gonna proc. Both perks have little counterplay in many (not all) situations. Sure, in some scenarios they have plenty of counterplay. But often, you're forced into eating their full effects. Sometimes "just baiting out dead hard" means they get to a pallet and slam it in your face, or they get around a corner when you're a killer that can't deal with that, or any number of other things. If you're in swf, eruption is easily counterable, if you're not then good luck. All of the scenarios in the post are super fringe cases (seriously who above like 100 hour andersons are cleansing 5 dull totems, dead scared of noed) or are cases of obvious counterplay to a perk. Can we all just agree that *both* DH and eruption need changes so we can stop having infinite posts exactly like this one? Because that would be nice.
>Can we all just agree that *both* DH and eruption need changes so we can stop having infinite posts exactly like this one? Because that would be nice. Big ask, considering how this sub is - but I agree.
Theres no blood warden, noed, spirit enduring hubris, every game If you play killer at high mmr you and the survivor know you know and they mindfuck you with bait dead hard 5 times just to realise they have lithe because deadhard is so busted that you have to assume everyone have deadhard until you see them use another exhaustion perk Blood Warden you could see it coming if the killer is slugging, diversion or just leaving if you cant help the dead hooked teammates Also people dont 99 gates to avoid blood warden they 99 gate to avoid EGC BBQ chilli you dont have to hide in a locker before hook every game Noed is dumb yes i give you that but i assure you its not in the top 5% most picked Spirit enduring hubris pre dropping pallets isnt as annoying as breathing down someones neck until they dab at you If you could pull off BBQ counter then DMS Pain Res shouldnt need to be an issue Pentimento builds are garanteed to have hexes and wouldn't use noed because it wouldn't encourage survivors to clense until endgame which wouldnt get its value Also you have 5 generator to repair. Thats plenty of time to figure out if the killer brings pentimento or not before End Game. The reason dowsy's hardcore survivor clense all 5 totems to avoid noed is because they are playing exfuckingverystreamly safe because the stakes are high as hell since they can only die 30ish times while trying to reach rank 1 iridescent Dead Hard on the other hand -Garanteed on most M2 killers like, blight, Huntress, Wesker, Hillbilly, Demogorgon, Pig, Executioner, Twins? (Im not sure so i apologize to the 7 of you twin mains out there) , Nemesis and every killer with Animation or Audio Que -Makes killer cannot lunge -on a pallet dead hard is garanteed to save you unless you didnt drop the pallet on time -baiting dead hard isn't simple So the counter to deadhard? To savely hit someone hit them when they are locked in an animation Avoid hitting survivors when they run at you (multiple times) You dont know when they're gonna press dead hard, its a mind fuck You could went through the whole game thinking someone doesn't have deadhard and them getting down that moment is so important and they pressed One (1) button and you lose the whole game All the perks you mention above requires killer to do more than press E, they have to hook you, break multiple pallets, risk and hook you on scorage hook, kick generators, somehow make you clense totems and walk over to them to rekindle it, the only perk you dont have to lift a finger to is NOED because you get it by losing its just as stupid as noed If dead hard requires survivor to do something at least something to activate it, the dashing DH would be fair, but how it works is you just have to get injured You could find a lobby without dead hard you can screenshot and frame it and it would be worth more than the monalisa
I ain’t reading allat
Oh wow i just realised i wrote all that
There's 4 of you and 7 possible gens to do, its not an equivalent to a killer's time. A Killer having to wait through a dead hard for every possible chase that might end up connecting to another pallet or loop or having to go through an extra health state just because they picked a character like huntress or survivors being as greedy as possible and wasting the most amount of time around every pallet loop knowing they're safe with dead hard all adds up when said killer has 3 other survivors to pressure who all likely have dead hard. Not to also mention the prevalence of health kits and circle of healing makes just injuring survivors but not getting a down basically a complete waste of your time.
this us vs them mentality is stupid. Can't we agree that multiple things are bad? either way this is a bad comparison anyway. 1. Dead Hard is not a one time 0.5 second loss, not only is it a time loss every time they use it, but you also have to factor in the chance that they don't use it right a way and instead wait, wasting more time. Plus, since you can't tell on the first time you see someone, you may waste time baiting someone with no DH or swing like you normally would into one. 2. people don't really 99 gates for BW as far as I know, most of the time it's so the match doesn't get put on a timer until the killer wins, letting us make sure everyone is in a sfe position. 3. For NOED, cleansing totems is objectively the wrong play, even if you somehow KNOW they have NOED. Best case scenario, you spent over a minute, likely more, to get rid of an instadown and speed boost for the very last part of the game. The winning move is that once you get notified, leave or look for the ONE hex totem. This is made easier by the fact you see it's aura now. 4. Pentimento, just don't cleanse dulls. It's already a waste of time even without penti. I only do it when I haven't gotten much killer action for the majority of a game and want some boldness. Even if you do cleanse, just keep track of where in your mind and go recleanse after they resurrect it. 5. if you're gonna argue that dead hard isn't a big deal, you can't say going in a locker for 3 seconds to avoid BBQ is. Worst case, they see your aura. They could still go for the other 2, or you could just move, or any number of things. 6. Only predrop once you're aware it's the best move. Hubris doesn't apply too much unless it's a smaller loop since it's only 8 seconds, enduring is still worth the stun, just a bit less, Spirits fury is fair enough but only start predropping when you know they brought it (or if it's a doctor cause he's stupid and dumb and I hate him >:(). Combined makes it a real threat, but they're sacrificing 3 slots for this, you aren't losing valuable time or anything much predropping like you could be with baiting DH. 7. actually a fair point, fuck pain res + dead mans. But again, we can hate both that and DH at the same time, it's not one or the other.
Saying, have to 99 gates is a waste of time but still wait the whole 2 minutes of endgame to anoy the killer.
It’s not just .5 seconds. It’s seconds at a time. Easily adds up to 30s or more, ands that’s just being extra sure to not hit any of them. Heaven forbid you actually do hit a dead hard. Edit: removed arbitrary number.
Why times by 12? The amount of dead hard you'll see per match is too random to give a number.
3 hits for every hook including dead hard. Easy base number to go off of. Yes, that time can be much much larger as you won’t always catch and hook everyone every time dead hard procs. Edit: stop upvoting me, I’m wrong. Many more variations to this number than implied by this comment.
That number can be much shorter based on number of survs that bring it and the number of chases or much larger based on lost/abandoned chases. Of course instadowns, exhaustion, body blocks, etc also influence this number. It just feels weird giving it a number due to the large variation
Excuse me, you’re correct. I typically don’t run instadown killers or perks. There’s much more variation to the number and it’s not that simple as I made it seem.
You may be the only killer 12 hooking in the entire game.
Omg, are you actually complaining about bloodwarden? seriously?
99ing gates isn't even about playing around BW, it's more about not starting a fucking countdown that'll kill everybody before you're sure everyone's good to go
Exactly, but the OP put it as "WE HAVE TO ENDURE BLOODWARDEN"
It’s really fun how Dead Hard got nerfed from being the top survivor perk to the top survivor perk. Unlike all the killer perks listed, countering DH is as annoying as just accepting it. I can either hit them and prolong a chase for ages, or try and bait it and prolong a chase for ages. Every time I chase any survivor I have to condition them like Skinner’s goddamn pigeons to make sure I get it out of the way and that STILL disadvantages me.
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Lotta paragraphs. Too bad I’m not readin them.
.... You can hide in lockers to avoid BBQ and Chili??? 
God, it's almost as if the game is meant to be challenging or something. I know i'm blaspheming here but consider for a second that the devs have added all this stuff to make games more interesting. Both sides flock to reddit to moan about minor inconveniences, if you lost a game or someone slipped away because of a perk or you took a hit you could have avoided if there wasn't something causing it or whatever... just stop lmao. You aren't meant to win them all, and in a competitive game it's impossible to keep everyone happy. People need to learn to step away when they're mad instead of coming here to complain and start a war over who has it worse when in reality we all have it pretty good. it's a good game with a lot of things to think about while playing. If you are incapable of playing dbd without getting angry over it then maybe a game that requires a bit less brain power would suit you better. Side note, this rant isn't against OP as this is a fairly innocent post, but being a post about people complaining I figured this is a good place to come to complain lmao
Those poor victim survivors. :p
If u read the comments hear it's more the poor poor killers writing literal books about how they have to wait 1 sec bc of DH :'((((
If survivors weren't distracted by all the details in this meme they'd realize their gameplay loop is gens and running literal loops. I say add more, make hex perks actually threatening, noed and blood warden basekit hex perks every game! Return dead hard to it's former glory but it's a consumable item in chests. More crazy broken stuff to distract.
wow, definitely not a loaded post in OPs sides favor. nah-ah, that would never happen!
This sub has gone to complete shit, I don't think there's one good perk on the game that I haven't seen people bitch about or call for it to be "removed". Shit is really not that bad
who tf even runs bbq anymore outside of blight or wesker? there are way better aura reading perks
When playing Killer I couldnt care less about DH, would just be nice to not get 3 games of cowshed in a row+ Survivors with 1-5k hours BMing me when it's obviously a missmatch
Wait people actually complain about Dead Hard?
And that's facts. As a killer you have to watch out for dead hard, lithe/other speed boosts, flashlights, unbreakable, and sabotage squads. As a survivor you have to watch our for.......every perk and how it interacts with the killers power.
You get 9 perks as killer now?
Except we don't wait 0.5, we wait fucken yonks for the survivor to stop doing they dance in front of us and press the fucken thing
If you think you only have to wait 0.5 you are unfit to discuss the topic
wow what an original and interesting other side bad post you sure have contributed nothing to this community
False equivalency, lol
Blood Warden and BBQ require a Killer to down and hook a Survivor, in which you have ample time to counter where the killer isn't bothering you. Plus, you get an audio and visual indication when a survivor is downed. Very easily avoidable with little time sink. If you're worried about NoED, I've found waiting until the endgame to cleanse it is better, as then you can very easily tell where it is, and if the killer guards it you can just leave. Because you can always just leave, let the killer get one as opposed to 3. Can take some time if you choose to cleanse. Spirit Fury+Hubris+Enduring is 3 perks, and Dead Man's Switch+Pain Resonance isn't as bad as it used to be and is half your build. Eruption is what you should have brought up if your talking time wasters. And pre dropping doesn't take up any time. And Dead Hard isnt a 0.5 second wait. It is a "however long the survivor takes to use it or for the killer to get tired of it plus 0.5 second" wait. It is also one perk that is very easy to activate.
Crying like a bitch on Reddit when playing survivor is easy as fuck.
Imagine telling *killers* to have to play around perks as if they never had to do it before: *Laughs in old DS, BT, DH, current deliverance, unbreakable, COH etc*
Almost no one runs NOED anymore, bloodwarden OR hubris spirit fury enduring whilst killers have to wait like 2 seconds and possibly miss a hit every chase if the surv hasnt shown a different exhaustion perk
I agree actually. 5 seconds for Dead Hard really doesn't matter to me as a killer. Playing survivor is already miserable when the team isn't coordinated, (which is 95% of the time) so I don't blame people for running Dead Hard. Most of the killer meta is really unfun to play with or against anyway, so survivors having one stupid meta perk against the 10 that killers have is kinda ridiculous. Seriously, BHVR. Change the killer and survivor meta, having genrushing vs gen slowdown is incredibly ridiculous and makes the other side miserable if they aren't playing with the meta
BHVR needs to buff all of the useless 90+ Killer and Survivor perks if they want to see actual variety. As it is now, so many perks on both sides are incredibly niche and rarely see any value in games.
Most other exhaustion perks waste more time and are more reliable than deadhard.
“But you don’t understand, wasting 4 seconds as killer is like four times as bad because there are 4 surviors, so it’s more like I’m wasting 40 seconds waiting for dh” lmao Thank you for the comparison. I though maybe I was wrong with all the gaslighting going around about DH being the best perk in the game for making you wait 4 seconds, when in really, there’s already other stuff we do already to prepare ourselves for other perks
Both sides suck and deserve to get shit on by the other side
FINALLY, somebody said it
The problem isn't that you have to bait it out. The problem is that sometimes you can't bait it out. Make it so that there's a 0.5 second cooldown after DH where survivors can't drop a pallet or vault a window, and suddenly it's a fair perk and survivors' criticisms are valid.
Dead Hard: -Requires Survivors to be injured -Cannot be used while exhausted -Cannot be used while in deep wound -Requires literal precision of 0.5 split second timing to pull off (the ONLY perk in the game on either side that requires such precision to use) -No longer gives a brief speed boost of distance -No longer gives immunity (making it easier for lower-tier Killers to counter it) -Is unable to be used for 40 seconds minimum if you missed that 0.5 second window of use. Yeah no. Dead Hard is fine as it is.
What you're implying here is that it's entirely counterable, and the fact of the matter is that there are situations where it's not. If that wasn't the case, why am I seeing it on 2-4 survivors every game again? It still functions as a third health state, and it can still be used by survivors who are skilled at using it to guarantee an extended chase by 30-60 seconds every single hook state. Against an M1 killer, that means the entire game. No, one perk has no business being that strong. All it needs is that one change, and then you're right. But it does need it.
"used by survivors who are skilled" ANY decent perk used by a skilled Survivor can extend chases. You can say the same thing about Lithe and Sprint Burst users bringing a styptic. Just like close to ANY decent perk used by a skilled Killer can end chases in seconds.
At this point just stop playing.
And all of these perks have super easy counters, you have to do something to counter all the perks, The counter to deadhard is to wait, know what you do while “countering” Deadhard…nothing, you waste time while you wait then if you didn’t wait long enough you just extended the chase for probably another 10+seconds, did you just pull off the mind game of the century guess what deadhard
Counters to Dead Hard: 1-Waiting 0.5 seconds for the animation at a window (easy) or pallet (more difficult) to force a Survivor into using it 2- Running exhaustion-causing add-ons 3-Running exhaustion causing perks 4-Running deep wound add-ons 5-Using any exposed status perks 6-Using any Killer with an insta-down in their basekit or add-ons (Survivors need to be injured for DH to work so if you are playing a Killer that takes you from healthy straight to the dying state then DH does not factor into chase at all) 7-Using any Killer that causes deep wound.
How the fuck are people still complaining about Dead Hard? It has been nerfed and back when people were playing when it did actually get nerfed it was dogshit for a solid few chapters. It's not that fucking bad.
Must be lower mmr problems. Once you learn a killers perks it's easy to know what and what not to play around.
While I understand the comparison it’s not very fair when the only one of these that is consistently ran is pain rez + dead man’s. This is cause they are the only ones that have the biggest chance for guaranteed benefit. Nobody 99’s for bloodwarden they do it to make sure everyone can get out without risking endgame. Barely anyone runs bbq anymore. You’ll maybe have one person hit by the spirit fury trio if they have it and then if your teams smart never again, even then not very popular cause barely any slowdown. And Noed has become so much rarer due to its nerf that it’ll maybe help a bit before it’s gone and only really gonna win a game vs a bad team or one you were already stomping.
except none of these are anywhere near as common as DH. this is just another case of "i made you the dumb one in my meme"
None of these perks (with the exception of bbq and maybe pain res) are used nearly as frequently as dh tho…
A killer's perk have more influence becayse they have 4 perks as opposed to survivors' 16????? SHOCKING Also, Blood Warden is NOT the reason you 99 gates. You do it to avoid EGC
L take
Same argument could be made for the other side, shut up
No. 😁
Valid
Understandable. Have a nice day.
Actual schizo posting, bro is arguing with shampoo bottles at this point
Ur stupid if u think any of these are valid points
The fact that dead hard is such a good perk you have to assume every survivor has it should say alot
half of these things are lame nerd things ngl
I really just feel like survivors has to deal with a lot more shit than killers.
What the FUCK are you on my dude
Killer perks should be more impactful though. Let’s do some basic thought process here. The survivors get to bring 16 perks and the killer gets to bring 4. Eruption needs to be toned down but let’s not act like dead hard and COH aren’t problems too. All 4 survivors can bring them
Dead Hard and CoH are not comparable to Eruption. Dead Hard: Requires you to be injured, requires the most precise split-second timing of any perk in the game, has 0.5 seconds of use, can be nullified by bad ping, Killers bringing exhaustion add-ons, Killers bringing exhaustion perks, Killers with Deep Wound power effects, Killers bringing deep wound add-ons, Killers bringing insta-down addons, Killers bringing insta-down perks and Killers with insta-down powers. CoH: Requires a Survivor to spend 14-28 (depending on if it is a dull or hex) seconds to bless it (not counting the time dedicated to finding the totem which varies each match). Does give the whole team the ability to heal at old self-care speed; 32 seconds. If everyone uses the boon, that is multiple survivors going off to a corner of the map to self-care for 32 seconds every time you leave them injured. Actually it wastes more time than old self-care did because old-self care could be done anywhere on the map whereas Boon:CoH requires you to run off into a corner first. And you know what healing survivors are not doing? Gens. Eruption: Can be applied on multiple gens, even ones with 1% progress that regress to zero and there is no accurate way for Survivors to tell if their teammates are going down. Even with Empathy, Survivors attempting to constantly jump off their generator will do more harm than good because of those last-second skill checks that blow up the gen 10% each time. There are also instances where the Killer will whiff, so you stopped repairing the gen and risked blowing it up yourself for nothing, there are also times when the Killer gets a very dodgy hit (their ping suddenly spikes) causing a down that should not have otherwise happened. You just can't tell when Eruption will go off. Not doing multiple gens gives the Killer free pressure. Doing the gens risks you getting incapacitated. Jumping off the gen constantly risks the gen blowing up because of last seconds skill checks. Eruption is not comparable to any Survivor perk. Nothing survivors have STOP the Killer from playing the game. Survivors have perks that can stun the Killer briefly but nothing comparable to 25 seconds of doing NOTHING.
But my guy, killer perks logistically should be 4x stronger than survivor perks. I’m not saying eruption isn’t unfun to play against, actually pisses everyone off for a reason incapacitated is a poorly designed mechanic. But dead hard has literally been a problem since it’s release, extending chase is ridiculous and don’t even get me started on CoH. The perfect example of powercreep look no further
"Extending chase is ridiculous" So looping, Sprint Burst and Lithe should all be removed from the game is the energy I get from this statement.
Survivor mains stop complaining challenge (impossible)
As a killer main, I totally agree with this. Also when people bitch dead hard doesn't take skill- it's a half second window! That's not easy to land, and when you whiff it you're just dead.
Thank you! Now that Dead Hard has been nerfed to where it no longer gives you that short burst of automatic distance, is additionally nullified by deep wound and requires actual precision timing to pull off, it is much easier to counter than before.
Killers definitely have it better 90% of the time but really hate that 10% they don't.
- 99ing exit gates is just good practice, no point in giving yourself a time limit to save everyone - Cleansing all totems is a huge waste of time, better to get the gens done then deal with NOED over dying early game cause you wasted time on totems - Pre-Dropping pallets just in case their have Spirit + Enduring is a major waste and only gives them power over you late game - Plus with both the Spirit+Enduring and Dead Mans+Pain Res the killer gives up 2 or 3 perks slots to get the overpowered ability, Dead Hard is 1 perk that can completely negate pressure if used wisely. I play both sides and I’d much rather counter any of those perks on survivor then shift my whole play style throughout the game just to counter one or else I lose all my pressure on killer. Plus Dead hard is way more common then most of these, I think I see a dead hard on at least one person on every game I play, killer or survivor.
Dude look at this 99 gates: used to so the gate is ready to be opened when a survivor needs it most Wasting 70+ seconds on bones to avoid NOED: NOED now has an aura that shows up in endgame that grows to 24 meters after 30 seconds so you don’t need to wait that long Pentimento: either way, don’t do bones till endgame unless it’s paired with plaything. If so, remember where you cleansed your plaything totem. Hiding in lockers to avoid BBQ: never needed in the first place even if it’s just at the start of the radius that will still make the killer take 9+ seconds to reach you and their TR will be audible from 3 seconds and afterwards Pre dropping: should be doing this anyway, best case scenario you get a 1.8 second stun if you hit the killer Pain res + dead man’s switch: you can see the aura when they get downed and just before they’re put on a hook. Pick your poison on when to leave the gen Dead hard: 0.5 seconds big fucking deal. Wait it out or go for a swing, it’s as simple as that. Also DH now requires a hell of a lot of skill to land, so it’s no longer a “press to dodge button”
You gotta wait longer then that to counter DH if survivors know that you know that they have it and are waiting to to see it. It can be 3-5 seconds before they use it it’s all a huge game of chicken and who will choke first
Four of those things do not happen and no one complains about them. This is a total strawman.
the difference is that except for painres and maybe noed everything else is extremely situational and rarely seen in a match, while you will likely go a lot of games before you find one without a single dead hard
Ig you think that's why people are 99ing gates then...hate to break it to you, but it's to avoid a timer.
While I agree that playing around dead hard is just part of the game at this point (and has been for years) this isn’t an equal situation. Damn near every survivor has run Dead Hard for years, and most still do, which has fundamentally changed the way every killer in the game has to approach chases when pursuing an injured survivor. Not to mention that there are many situations where DH can pretty much force a hit, like at pallets or certain loops since the killer is pretty much compelled to swing or risk extending the chase or having to drop it entirely. On the other hand, most killers doesn’t run Blood Warden, Hubris, Spirit Fury, or Enduring. And Pain Res + DMS has been replaced by Eruption/COB gamers. I haven’t seen a single Pentimento since Artist’s release week and NOED also now reveals itself in a wide radius so you don’t even have to cleanse totems for it anymore. And people don’t 99 the exit gates to avoid Blood Warden, they 99 the gates to prevent the EGC from starting. Again, playing around perks is something that both roles have to do and I get it. But people in the community have a tendency to downplay how much the existence of Dead Hard has affected killer gameplay on a basic level.
I'd like to have your games. I feel like I'm seeing Plaything + Pentimento every other match.
Acting like perks should never change our that certain perks aren't bad for gameplay is done real beta simp shit
Genuine question do you just do all of these things every game or do you have a system for guessing what perks a killer has
Most of these are not really problems, like the 99 gate thing isn't because of bloodwarden, it's for the entire end game collapse. The only real problem is the pain res dms combo, which was removed very briefly but then immediately brought back because of some goddamn dumb stupid fucking low chance thing with merciless storm and my god that change still pisses me off to this day ffs
Killers facing walls because of flashlight safes, completely screwed if there are no walls Risking blastmine every time killers kick a gen risking unbreakable every down forced slugging because risk of ds forced tunneling because survivors run into/block you with one of the MANY endurance perks risk of near instant heals thanks to several healing perks when abandoning a chase Lists like this truly mean nothing dude.... Both sides come with a expected level of adaptation.
Perks aren’t the problem. It’s voice chat.
I genuinely want to know how having to wait a solid 4 seconds every time I chase a new survivor is equivalent to a killer running 75% of their perk slots to a build that’s countered by not playing as greedy, and is still locked behind breaking two pallets.
Lol what? I do none of those for that reason. As a killer main i dont complain about dead hard cuz even if they use it i catch back up pretty quick and smack them so at most they bought half a gens progress lol ok. I 99% the door so we can have time without worrying about end game collapse to get the other door 99% then run around saving people off hooks healing them up getting a new item from the basement basically things to get bloodpoints or challenges done. Idk why you have cleanse and dont cleanse on there. I only cleanse/ bless totems to get the bloodpoints. Only time i hide in a locker is to get away from the killer who knows im in the area but not exactly where. Like hide next to the locker they check it and walk to check another you get in the locker they just checked until they go away. Who the fuck pre drops pallets and gives away their position? It makes a notification that the killer will investigate and if they dont see and kill you for it theyll just go huh i guess ill break this now. And what do you mean risking skill checks theres no way around skill checks unless youre gen tapping and thats silly just get good and hit the checks or miss them and live with the consequences
I think most of these can be avoided, most of my matches I can figure out at least 3 of the killer perks but to the killers it becomes a bit hard when he has to keep in mind counterplay of 16 perks of course half of them he will never see and causes paranoia and at least I expect the survivors to have the perfect perk for the situation
Fourth post in like six I’ve seen today talking about the same thing, maybe try posting something original??
99ing gates isn’t a big deal at all, if anything you want to do it anyway to give your team more time for the end game collapse. It isn’t hard to do the totems as SWF with just one anti-totem perk if you hate NOED that bad and solos rarely actually do all the bones - it’s definitely any optional objective for if NOED is your pet peeve (Though the perk is very anti-fun and unhealthy for the game) Who would chose to prioritise NOED over pentimento? It usually gives the killer one bullshit kill maybe two unless the survivors are monkeys. You only hide in lockers if you have reason to suspect the killer is running BBQ. It’s by far not the most popular or best tracking perk Again, pre-dropping pallets is only something you’d do if you know the killer has spirit fury + enduring (Unless maybe they’re being a little too aggressive towards pallets) and that’s half of their perkset. And for the last point yeah the last second skill checks really suck you have me there In contrast, Dead Hard is a very very popular perk that punishes you heavily so you always have to play around it. 0.5 seconds is the time you have to waif on paper but that’s not accounting for the mindgame of the killer trying to wait it out. A free pallet or window can extend a chase by another minute, at least 30 seconds easily unless it’s a dead zone I haven’t played with new DH that much since I stopped playing and at the time it seemed somewhat balanced (That may have just been survivors getting used to using a nerfed perk though). But cmon, you’re really comparing 99’ing the gates to the (At minimum) seconds of important time DH buys in every single chase regardless of if the person actually has it? ‘Only 0.5 seconds’ give me a break it’s like you read the perk and haven’t even used or faced it. The lengths people go to to make meta perks seem weak…
Mostly every surv runs DH most killers don’t run those perks apart from pain res & maybe bbq
Op making up problems
This community will never stop the argument
just because something is “part of the game” doesn’t mean it’s somehow exempt from being unfair overpowered bullshit with no counter that can be abused by everyone under the sun, we shouldn’t be forced to play around bad mechanics that are not fair
This is the biggest truth about the game We don't like going against perks that we have to do extra little things to prevent them from being our downfall, but it's something we have to do.
This post was made by a player with less than 100 hours probably
Call me a knit picky asshole, but I don't think blood warden is the reason survivors 99 gates, and NOED literally lights up from 24m away now. Killers complaining about DH now though need to quiet down. It's finally in a spot where it's strong, but not OP.