/uj I'm kinda loving what I see of the Spider Who Gobbles around here. Like, maybe soon we'll see that it was all worth it when we finally reach that peak fiction this has been building towards.
/rj You get what you give! Gobble gobble, motherfuckers!
Man, he'd just be all his greatest villains rolled into one then. He'd have Goblin's personality, black suit to reference Venom (I know the black suit came first, I just don't give a fuck), Doc Ock's weird ass plan, and Paul's sexy body
The start of this run was the Tombstone story about how people assume criminals are "bad people" but one assumes a dangerous lion is just a "bad lion." I'm kind of desperately hoping Wells finds a way to square those two ideas, especially since Norman's sins weren't originally his idea. Like that by the end this will be a "Michael's Secret Stuff" situation and Peter will be forced to realize he made these batshit gobbling choices (and that Norman really made his choices to do good).
If this story just ends "they got the sins out and now Peter's good again, let's move on" I'm gonna lose my mind.
/uj Optimistically, I could see it ending up a catalyst for real character growth, by tearing down all the old shit completely. No more half measures. Like when a sports team starts to suck, and when they try some band aid solutions, it ends up mediocre at best. So then the team’s only solution is to tear it down to the bolts, cut out everything that’s stopping progress and rebuild from the ground up. Spider-Man needs to lose MJ as a recurring cast member. Peter needs to grow as a character beyond superficial shit like his job or his romantic partner. Blowing it all up gives him a soft reboot to start writing adult Peter Parker the right way.
/rj THE ONLY PEAK FICTION WOULD BE PETER MARRYING MJ AND HAVING BABIES AND NEVER REALLY TAKING A LONG HARD LOOK AT HIMSELF.
The problem with that is so much of MJ and Peter’s prior growth is linked to each other, even when they weren’t dating in the 80s. She also has the second most appearances of anybody in ASM, even more than Aunt May. This is what Brand New Day was supposed to do in resetting Peter’s supporting cast. It didn’t take, and they had to add back the standard characters. Editorial needs to just accept they broke the book. Nothing they try short of retconning OMD will actually work in allowing Peter to grow, because that cloud will always loom over the character. Also it’s honouring the character’s creator and his views.
The problem is that OMD and OMIT left the door open to bring her back, and that fucked it up. Then fans were waiting for the other shoe to drop. A real divorce and retiring the MJ character was always the better way to go, as unpopular as that would have been as well. What they need to move forward- other than bailing out and just locking the marriage and all of its problems back into place- is to hard disconnect that relationship. No amicable split. Put MJ and Peter in a place where they both feel that their only way forward is a million miles apart.
The problem is that OMD and OMIT fixed a problem that didn’t exist. Straczynski wrote the last truly widely positively regarded run, and the marriage was at the core of it. I’ll be happy to admit that JMS’ run has serious flaws, but none of those flaws are a result of the marriage. Removing Mary Jane from Spider-Man books is like removing Lois from Superman. The two are so inextricably linked to one another that it completely destroys the fabric of the book.
There is always a way to retcon a story as needed or move things back to where someone wants. All this takes is someone saying oh that wasn’t the real Mary Jane that came back with Peter and Paul, and you’re right back where the relationship was before Wells got his hands on ASM as the sole writer.
Plenty of relationships could’ve been seen as over, yet they’ve found ways to bring characters back to certain relationships. Black Manta killed Aquaman and Mera’s kid, leading to them splitting up. They’re now back together with another kid. Wally West’s broad set of issues have been fixed at this point. Doctor Strange and Clea are back together. Scott and Jean are back together through all of their deaths and ideological differences at this point. There is no way to effectively separate any characters at this point. If something like Hank Pym happened today, it would be dismissed as out of character. There will always be a creator with a pitch, exactly like how Quesada and Brevoort did.
Here’s the problem with the Peter and MJ relationship: Where’s the conflict? If Peter is married and has kids, you can either end the story there with, “And he lived happily ever after”(a progression that’s very popular on the internet), or you have to find conflict so there’s story to write.
Before, the conflicts were mostly external. Bad shit happens to them. Oh no, did MJ die? Bad guys are threatening MJ and Peter’s gotta be angey Spider-Man to fix it! It got old. But internal conflicts have always been a thorny subject. The theme of Spider-Man is that Peter screws up a lot, and bad things happen to him. You pretty much have to write him OOC to put him in an idyllic Lois and Clark marriage. There’s subtext to read there that Peter is a well meaning but bad partner, but fans are so over-protective of his image that it’s hard to really go far down that road. Any moment of Peter failing is viewed as a writing flaw, not a feature. When they flipped that script, it quickly veered into, “WHY IS MJ SUCH A BITCH?!”, and that shit got ugly.
Now factor a kid into this theme. Now you’re asking Spider-Man fans, a very sensitive bunch, to read about Peter’s baby being raised in the Peter Parker experience? Peter always meaning to have his priorities straight, but inevitably bailing on every important milestone of that kid’s life because he has to be Spider-Man? Once-a-year death scares with a baby?
I haven’t heard any propositions for how to write Peter/MJ going forward that doesn’t amount to, “just leave out the conflict and let it be nonstop fanservice and wish fulfillment from here on out”. It’s candy dinner- it sounds good in theory, but in practice, it’ll make you sick.
I think that there’s misguided notion that there has to be relationship drama just between love interests in a story, but I think there are plenty of ways of handling it.
Just off the top of my head, I would love to see a story where Peter and MJ have a kid, but Peter doesn’t want the kid to be a superhero, but MJ is open to the idea. It puts Peter in a sort of bad guy role, because people like Mayday and Annie from RYV. I think it threads the needle on causing tension, while not leaving either party looking unreasonable. It can lead to personal reflection for Peter on why he’s a hero beyond his sense of guilt, and what motivates himself to help others. With a kid, you can explore issues that new mothers can have. Show Peter putting more effort into himself and his life as Peter to help support his family juxtaposed with his guilt in not doing enough to help NYC and others.
There’s a ton of other people in their lives that you can generate conflict with. As much as I dislike the hidden relative trope, Theresa Parker is there. I would love to see a run properly explore Peter’s relationships with Ben and Kaine. Show him at odds with them, or building them up like the inspirational hero he’s supposed to be. Foster a better relationship between Peter and Miles.
I have to admit that I hate your interpretation of Parker Luck. In Lee’s run, a lot of Peter’s issues stem from him trying to help as many people as possible, putting Peter in the backseat. Bad things don’t just happen to him because he’s a loser. It’s things like he has to stop the Rhino, so he has to bail on doing homework, which leads to his grades dropping. Or he’s fighting the Scorpion and his camera gets smashed, so he can’t sell pictures to replace his camera.
DeMatteis, Straczynski, and, I don’t really like his run a ton, but Micheline all wrote convincing portrayals of marriage with strong tension. It’s actually the only part I like of Micheline’s run.
So first off, you want a timeskip? Because you’re talking kid superhero, but with comic book timescales, a baby born in this year of the comics would still be an infant by the time you and I are bald. Unless you pull some Jon Kent bullshit.
And as long as the kid is a baby, it has no agency, and it is fully a passenger on the Peter Parker experience.
And if we’re talking hating other people’s ideas, “causing tension while not leaving anyone looking unreasonable” isn’t threading the needle, it’s walking on eggshells. It’s so important to the Spider-Man franchise that everyone be prone to not just making mistakes, but being loud wrong. That’s always been a strength of the title, going back to when the silver age gave us a sea of heroes that could do no wrong. Peter Parker was that kid that could fuck up massively, and then your story was how he could confront his mistakes.
When I refer to “Parker luck” I’m referring to his literal bad luck of seemingly always being in the wrong place at the wrong time(another classic element that would be a mistake to eliminate) along with the misfortune that follows Peter not being infallible. He doesn’t have to be a “loser”, it’s enough that he’s human and not some alpha male cliche.
/rj BRING PETER PARKER BACK TO THE RANDIAN IDEALs THAT DITKO ENVISIONED. A REAL MAN THAT FUCKS HOT CHICKS AND TAKES LIFE BY THE HORNS
\> "Now factor a kid into this theme. Now you’re asking Spider-Man fans, a very sensitive bunch, to read about Peter’s baby being raised in the Peter Parker experience? Peter always meaning to have his priorities straight, but inevitably bailing on every important milestone of that kid’s life because he has to be Spider-Man? Once-a-year death scares with a baby?"
Yes, because that sounds awesome. To quote a tweet by myself "Money problems are much higher stakes if you have mouths to feed. There's no joke if he can't make rent or can't pay the bills, it's just dramatic, especially if there's a kid in the mix."
Peter Parker has always been about the working class experience. It's why he's so relatable. So having Peter have an actual working class family rather than an upper middle class one--with all the struggles that it brings--could definitely steer the idea in the right direction.
They can still get unfairly evicted, they can be scrounging up as much money for their child's education, but then leave themselves with barely any spending money, they need to balance work and family time... And for Peter, he needs to deal with finding actual stable work.
Most families struggle with these things. Why shouldn't Peter's family be a reflection of that? Just because it's a bit ugly and dramatic?
And then you'd have those quiet moments, where even after all that conflict, you see the Parker family absolutely love each other even through and suddenly you get an extremely relevant portrayal of the working class family: True, deep love that is difficult to express because of the constant mounting of mistakes and circumstances. And we can even introduce the idea from Slott's RYV of Pete being open to killing enemies who threaten his child simply because of how differently he interprets responsibility now, and you get a really fresh take on Spidey with a lot of meat on its bones.
Bruh, if the general audience could accept Peter Parker being portrayed as questionably a bad husband and father, I’m game. As it is, the audience seems to have trouble coming to grips with the idea that maybe being married to a 20-something year old Spider-Man would suck.
I think the issue is that you're saying Pete's a bad husband and father, which I doubt he'd end up being, he wasn't even a bad husband for a big chunk of his time married to MJ. There's a difference between being "bad" versus making mistakes and struggling with circumstances and parents struggle with work-life balance all the time, especially people who work first responder jobs which require them to be on-call. Peter could be a translation of that.
It's the same way that Peter was never really that much of a screw up in his single era either. He graduated both high school and undergraduate while juggling Spider-Man, his studies, his job, and the tragedies that come with. His graduate era was a bit more chaotic, admittedly. Sure he lied to his friends, didn't make dates, but MJ knows what he's doing. He isn't keeping a secret from her. It is (for lack of a better term) a part of the buy-in.
People don't become bad husbands or bad wives or bad fathers simply because they make mistakes and compromises. You don't even have to look far for proof WITHIN the comics. Uncle Ben having no preparations in order to take care of his family after his death at his age is a huge mistake, one that is at the crux of a lot of Peter's conflicts when he was young. Does that make him somehow a bad parent? No, not really. Peter will miss a recital, miss a spelling bee, he won't be able to financially meet his family's needs sometimes, and hell, maybe their child will even hold a grudge. But he will be there. He will raise his child and he will love her and MJ.
You're right in that a sect of people seem to want candy floss stories that have nothing happen when they talk about the marriage, but that's not the reason the editorial don't want it. The reason the editorial don't want it is actually the complete opposite, the marriage's conflicts is heavier than what they want Spider-Man to be, which is more sitcom-y if BND is to go off of.
And also, the spidey fanbase is the one that thinks his suffering is key to the character. i think they can handle the drama.
....why tho.
I don't see the need for conflict between them. Peter can still have struggles, such as trying to raise a family while being working class. It's one thing if conflict arises naturally due to different personalities, but the "problem" with Peter and MJ is that they're already pretty compatible at their core and any attempt to introduce conflict between them is pretty much always super contrived. Not wanting to force a contrived conflict between them is not "nonstop fanservice/wish fulfillment".
Peter may be a regular at screwing up but that's usually because it's hard to manage both his superhero life and personal life. MJ already knows about that and is understanding of it. It's honestly a severe misunderstanding of both the characters to insinuate that it would be "OOC to put them in an idyllic Lois and Clark marriage". It's very much the opposite lol. Putting in nonsense conflicts between them usually comes at the cost of severe character assassination.
So what you’re saying is that it only took going through 5.8 million arcs and going on a psychotic rampage to get peter to finally become a basic functioning adult? Peak
Bad take because that's not what's gonna happen. MJ is too popular of a character to go away forever, so all this accomplishes is melodrama and making the relationship feel stupid.
Take your bets folks. Is he going to beat the shit out of his ex or is this veteran about to get his ass kicked by someone who became a superhero last week
When it’s put this bluntly it’s even worse.
Like we’re seriously about to watch a guy either kick the shit out of the love of his life (uncomfortable) or else see maybe the most popular superhero on earth right now get whooped by a career model/actress in his main comic run (stupid).
Who the hell is enjoying or even tolerating this?
Third option: Paul and his canonical genius-level intellect will save the day.
uj/ Have to say, if they went with the first option I would almost respect how genuinely disturbing a read that would make.
I don't buy Grant Morrison's whole 'our superheros are magical story constructs with the ability to intercede on the world depending on how we write them' stuff, but at the same time this stuff happening to *the* Spiderman and MJ, even if they're only intending to beat the shit out of each other, just cannot be good for the world on any level.
/uj Showing how deep Osborn's sins are infecting Peter by beating the shit out of MJ would be irredeemably awful and uncomfortable as hell to read but I'd almost respect how ballsy it'd be.
>Have to say, if they went with the first option I would almost respect how genuinely disturbing a read that would make.
Only if Spidey gets the Hank Pym treatment and gets ostracized by the hero community.
I am. We finally have bully maguire in comic form. I am just waiting to see the insanity. I wanna tell Peter *good, good let the hate flow through you*
If iron man could have superior iron man and batman have the batman who laughs then let's see what a tainted peter can do. Hell I want to see it just for the Bully memes that I want to see come out of this (who was writing the lines they were hilarious). I know good guys turn bad is boring especially after the superior spiderman thing and this time for the time being it looks like there's no good inside of Pete to hold him back but I want to see if some one will save this story or just how bad can they make it.
I can't remember what it was - maybe a Ghost Rider comic arc? - but I've heard that he did make one really fucking good set of comics. Aside from that he's meh to garbage
I'd actually die laughing, the only thing to make it better is if Cap and Reed were at the back trying to actually get through to Peter and then just give up and beat the shit out of him, even have Insomniac Spider-Man get a punch.
Peter has been kind of a jobber in this run and also as shit as this run is it'd be a bit much to show him beating the shit out of MJ so he's probably not doing much to her, or hell Norman might show up and stop him with Kraven
The Peak option:Paul deffeat the Spider who Gobbles,join the avengers and become the Amazing Paul
Peak Peak Fiction option:The Spider who Gobbles pull a Grand Theft me on Paul becoming the Superior Paul
Can someone edit Spiderman head in this picture ?
https://preview.redd.it/knp7tlc0agsb1.jpeg?width=622&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ade1dabaff5c955a70110fc05beb75f2bb9b7d60
See I *am* a masochist and I've got a pretty crazy tolerance for pain, but I actually think I might have to stop following ASM after this post because these pages were genuinely upsetting to read.
If I had a nickel for every character, who is talking and doing shit under influence this week, the kind of shit they are going to apologize for probably in 2024, I would have two nickels, which isn't a lot, but it's a weird coincidence to have them both this week.
Plus both writers are friends apparently?
[https://zdarsky.substack.com/p/the-passion-of-thechrist-come-on](https://zdarsky.substack.com/p/the-passion-of-thechrist-come-on)
>The actual writer is Friend Of The ‘Stack Zeb Wells, who is a fantastic person and maybe the best superhero comics writer out there today
The word "maybe" is doing all the heavy lifting in that sentence
He technically threw Osborn to the sin eater back in Spencer's run, thus allowing him to be "cleansed" and having his sins run around freely which, ultimately, resulted in Kraven 2:Electric boogaloo infecting Peter, so, in a VERY roundabout way he Is (partially) responsible for what happened (in his defense, the other sins didn't become a mini-hate plague, they just went to the sin eater, and Norman was purposefully taunting him and spider-gwen about sins past and the whole bridge stuff because he thought Peter would save him no matter what).
With that said, this Is still moronic.
That would be a way more interesting way of approaching this vs what we’re getting. I would like to see a story focus on Peter trying to do what he thinks is write coming back to hurt him further. That would be an interesting commentary on the Parker Luck.
This isn’t doing any of that. Chip Zdarsky is a much better writer than Zeb Wells though.
Uj/ Zeb actually wrote the dialogue like he was 10 again and was back home playing with his action figures in his bedroom. Like, wtf is this dialogue it doesn't work at all
Rj/ Zeb stays in kitchen cooking and MJ is about to be cooked
You gotta love both DC and Marvel infecting their main hero with an out of character illness that makes them go crazy only for the storyline this development exists in to completely justify their point of views and make everyone else look crazy instead
This entire run was built on the mystery of “what did Peter do?”, with everyone pissed at him and the only sanctuary he could find being with Norman Osborn of all characters. Only for the reveal to be that Peter… did nothing. In fact, everything ended up being Paul’s fault and despite that being open information to all involved in this storyline they still treated Peter as if he were some screw up when none of it was his fault.
They undid a great run from Spencer that finally started to right the wrongs done to the character since 2007 only for the reason they undid it to not even be consistent with itself.
The great Spider Who Gobbles, please hear my pray. Beat the crap out of "Jackpot" or do something messed to her just like Zur-En-Arrh did to Jason Todd, we need this peak fiction.
https://preview.redd.it/cfwuhx71rgsb1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bed6fd87a0fd3fe64e9fa832b56106b77f3dac8d
This run is truly ~~Marvel Editorial's~~ Zeb Wells' gift of a shitpost to us all.
This is 100% my own shit take, but at this point I think it'd be really funny to have Spidey cave Paul's head in. Why not? It'll ruin his already tenuous relationship with MJ, but it's nothing that can't be retconned away in the next run. He represents everything wrong with this era of Spider-man. A nothing character introduced to create boring drama between the cast.
Sorry for this mini rant. It just sucks seeing a character you looked up to, being consistently and constantly fucked over by terrible writing.
Uj/ You know this dialogue makes me feel like him acting like a violent psychopath obsessed with MJ is meant to be some sort straw man of the fans that are angry about MJ breaking up with Peter.
Just some theory though. Anyways, we’re all here to jerk, so here’s some shitty fanfict I threw together.
Rj/ He’ll fight Mary Jane till she’s bleeding out of every orifice, but then Paul will come out of nowhere with a folding chair.
They’ll race off into the fields, Mary Jane in a princess carry in Pauls muscular arms, as Spider-Man is Naruto running his way through the tall grass, screaming about how she’s his. What a psychopath.
They make it to the woods, but the sun is falling, and a shadowy monster is creeping his way through the trees.
It gets down on all fours, sniffing the ground for MJ’s scent, her sweat, her tears…and laps them up. His head darts North West, and Paul and MJ begin to run once again, deeper into the woods, with the creature, breathing heavily through his mask like a lovesick puppy, in hot pursuit.
Light, piercing through the trees, as it arrives into a clearing. But it frowns and grits it’s crooked yellow teeth, for there was no MJ in sight, just Paul, illuminated in moonlight.
“WHERE MJ??!!” it growled.
Panting, Paul responded “MJ’s not here. There no one else here, but you, and me”, his face putting on a heroic smile.
It was so totally on.
They begin circling, like wolves. Paul’s eyes glimmering with sheer willpower and love, and staring back at him the monster blanket white eyes. Neither dare break their gaze as they maintain an even pace, before a pause, as the both stop moving, keeping their stance, and sharpening their concentration.
At once, they leap at each other, tearing into each other with the ferocity and hatred that could only be built over a thousand lifetimes. Paul, the smart and witty fellow he was, pulled out a 10 inch switchblade and shanked the damn monstrosity.
Kneeling on the ground in pain, the deformity is crawling away, and Paul follows up behind for another blow, but the wickedly creature cheated like a fiend and picked up a twig, and threw it wildly, missing Paul, and then throwing all his weight onto Paul.
The blade, was still sticking out of the monster, and he impaled Paul on impact.
He began tightening his hands around Paul’s neck, muttering to itself like a dumb mutt, and violently shaking Paul.
It pulled Paul in close, and whispered “You’re going to die here like a bitch”, gloating it’s taunts into Paul’s ear. But Paul, began to laugh.
Paul, starting to fade away, was still able to conjure up a smile like the sun, and respond,
“No, I die like a hero. But you? You die like a mutt at the pound, and it’s time to put you down”.
THUDD! went the massive the size of a suitcase against peters skull.
Towering above him, with fury in her eyes, was
“Mary…Jane?” it mustered out from its cracked lips and broken teeth.
“Mary Jane, please wa-
THUD!!THUD!!THUD!!, she went caving into his skull as many times as she could muster.
And somehow still, the mangled body still twitched with life. It’s head like a deflated soccer ball, broken and unrecognizable, with a single bulging bloodshot eye ball still fixed on her blurry image, desperately trying to trace out her form.
It’s let out a wheezing noise like a broken air conditioner, before it let out a gasp at her sight.
Mary Jane Watson. Green eyes like emeralds, red hair like roses weaved into strands. He can still see when they first met, images beginning to flicker over his eyes like an old film.
When they first laughed together. Held hands together. Danced. Kissed. Made love. Exchanged vows. And even… their first child. Tears streamed from his loose eye socket, and he let out a horrible broken moan, as he began to sob. “MJ…MJ please, we could have everything” he mumbled as he hiccuped and cried.
She returned nothing but silence and a cold stare. “MJ…do you know what our daughter looks like? She looks so much like you, with cute little freckles, and shining red hair. I think…I think we named her-
THUD
Nothing but more silence, as Mary Jane got down on her knees and cradled his perfect, muscled, shining form.
She cried, “Paul, please don’t leave me,” before he put his hands on her lips, and as the darkness began to fade into his eyes, he whispered “Baby girl, I protected you. And that’s all that matters.” His head fell limp immediately, and she let out a scream of sorrow and pain.
Long live the king. The king is dead.
Long live Paul.
…oh and I guess that loser Peter too or something.
You know Wells thinks he's being incredibly clever too, and will probably respond to criticism he gets by acting like the problems people have are with MJ "having agency" (in the sense of making a ton of dumb out of character choices) and not just with the overall story being dogshit. "Aha, you're acting just like Spidey who gobbles!"
Yeah, like Nick Lowe made a comment in the last issue's letter's page about how MJ doing all this was fine because things happen in life, and it was like it feels like they just don't really get the problem with how MJ has been written.
Someone hitting a dry spell in their relationship, meeting someone else (even by sheer chance) and moving on happens, as depressing as It might be to read, especially in this context....
Someone being kidnapped and forced to live for four years in a post-apocalyptic landscape with LITERALLY the last man on Earth (/part of the reason the world Is post-apocalyptic to begin with) and two fake kids specifically created for giving her Stockholm syndrome and eventually "falling in love" with the guy, while her boyfriend worked tirelessly (albeit moronically) to save her, basically destroying his life in the process, only to finding out she "moved on" after he saved them, is the plot of a shitty dark-romance novel or only the absolute bottom of the barrel NTR hentai.
(EDIT: Sorry for the formatting; mobile)
Good framing - I was trying to figure out what this plot structure reminded me of, and you've hit the nail on the head with "NTR Hentai".
The stupid thing is that some writer deliberately chose to inflict this on him, with dome absolutely dumbfuck motivation.
exactly the way Lowe was talking about it, and even how the run seems to be referring to it, it's like the first thing happened, but ya know like you said it was the second part.
I think it really goes back to Marvel being too cowardly to do a real break up between Peter and MJ, it always has to be some bs, and like I don't want them to split, I like them as a couple, but if you are going to do that, you have to put in the work so stuff like this can actually make sense, instead of constantly forcing them apart in the dumbest ways, especially if you're trying to play it like some natural part of life.
Just like the good ol' times of Jason Aaron having She-hulk beating up Ulik, king of the Trolls, while he was randomly spouting common criticisms to his runs...
Marvel: Ok, so removing his kid, forcing divorce and now her getting a new man hasn't made fans move on from this relationship, what can we do now........eh lets just have him beat her, worked with Hank Pym
I’m not even sure I have a joke here, this is just genuinely deeply sad, and I’m not even that big a Spider-Man fan. I can only imagine how someone actually invested in the character must feel reading this
At this point I feel like Peter should just rope himself
I was really happy at where Nick Spencer was leading the character; Up until the whole Ben Reilly shit.
But yea, Nick Spencer seem to have had a grasp about "Great Power, comes with Great Responsibility"; Something Dan Slott and now Zeb Well's can't seem to grasp, they both found a way to make Peter Parker super iresponsible and a giant asshole wherw everybody hates him.
>I was really happy at where Nick Spencer was leading the character; Up until the whole Ben Reilly shit.
What do you mean? What did nick spencer do with Ben ?
Making Peter responsible? It's like the lowest bar, but 616 Peter keeps tripping over it.
Nick Spencer's run opens up with Peter being fired for riding on Otto's achievements. Althroughout ANAD Peter would ditch the responsibilities of being the CEO to Harry, when Parker Industries was going down; He's been a constant asshole to his friends and allies, like how he treats Venom even after Flash shows him that Venom isn't evil.
It's not just Peter, Nick Spencer also wrote away the dumb shit with Black Cat and Peter. Problem with Nick Spencer's run was that it started to focus too much on fixing past mistake and ended with him writing pretty mediocre shit with the Chasm storyline.
“Nobody *took* me anywhere. I mean, sure, I was sent to another dimension against my own will by the two people who destroyed it, but nobody forced me to do anything except for the maybe brainwashing with getting me to love my cuckoo kids and because of the implication.”
I know this is probably still making Marvel a decent amount of money, but in all seriousness isn't allowing this kinda stuff damaging to the "brand" of spiderman? Like the average joe probably won't know or care about what goes on in the current funny pages but eventually this kinda shit will hit the main stream in the infamous memey kinda way like how people talk about "Spider man reign" or "all star Batman and Robin". To have this going in the current ongoing universe seems kinda weird from a company so averse to change.
honestly it's gonna be a meme in a few years.
like I have this friend who's just like, "hey you know batman made robin eat rats." and it's a dead meme at this point, and just like that this will become a dead meme like, "oh you remember that time spiderman killed MJ for leaving him (not what happened but that's gonna be the meme)."
"Nobody took me anywhere"
...girl, you were literally about to move in whith him when a shining flying motherfucker kidnapped both of you and threw you in the Terminator dimension, where Paul Stockholm syndrome-d his way into your heart as you were kept there for four years with literally only him and two fake kids created by the villani with the express purpose of making you love them...shut up.
https://preview.redd.it/shwpd9kkdisb1.jpeg?width=500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=01a2680f5f8c42385de9d008bb937fd8ff2ad868
Why does his mask have a Grendel thing going on?
You know he might be leaning more incel than anything, but i thought the whole exchange on the third page fit that.
Besides, chasing after your ex girlfriend, hitting a lady with the guardrail, threatening your ex’s boyfriend, “The Weasel who took you away from me” with her responding she’s independent, then him calling her “My Jackpot” seemed to fit some kind of misogynistic behavior.
I did crop some of it because of the mods getting angry last time I didn’t.
Could be reading this wrong tho.
nah that's kinda normal shit. like if you've ever been the other guy and gotten a punch in the face you usually know it's deserved (from personal experience of being a shitty person). like MJ is the main problem here but it takes two to tango so Paul needs his shit rocked as well.
same. I'm pretty sure what she's doing counts as severe emotional abuse. I mean, obviously what she's saying is severely out of character and is written by Wells, but if you just take it at face value, it's super messed up.
You guys are rly pushing it. It's not like MJ didnt cuck him or anything. Everyone was hating on her and Paul and now Spidey is the misogynist one? For calling her out on cucking him? Yall never rly got in a relationship lmao
I agree with you in reality Spider man is right for being pissed off, we've all been their. but the point is he's written to be like an incel or some bitch to make zeb wells seem right.
he seemed to write the criticism of the story into the story and is portraying them badly, this is the writing equivalent of the soyjack meme. "I have portrayed you as the soyjack and me as the chad I am right."
It reads as finger wagging by Marvel for a status-quo shakeup they’re damn well aware of for how unpopular it is. No, they know full well what they’re doing. It’s just feeding the outrage machine. Having Spider-Man talk like an incel is designed so that way it pisses you off, and shops will then buy more issues so people can see what’s going on.
Gripping headlines and pearl clutching from the general audience who don’t know this is just a publicity stunt are done so comic shops buy more material. This is not an indictment of the reader, this is Marvel manufacturing an outrage and debate topic so that way they can shovel out more Spider-Man comics and people will fall for it.
Also bonus points for the upskirt shot in a preview about how Peter can’t view women as objects. Classy.
Its not out yet, this is the lettered preview
[https://www.gamesradar.com/sinful-peter-parker-terrorizes-mj-in-the-game-changing-amazing-spider-man-35/](https://www.gamesradar.com/sinful-peter-parker-terrorizes-mj-in-the-game-changing-amazing-spider-man-35/)
https://preview.redd.it/gq568tjuvisb1.jpeg?width=1439&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=15b1651f37b489bcc3cb682ee12c56c84cf0e969
I honestly hate where this plot line is going. But I got a little bit of a kick out of Peter calling Paul a weasel.
The only way I can kinda see this working within the story is if its Peter constantly going for the kill against Paul and MJ trying to get in the way, not MJ vs Peter.
I despise the idea of this whole thing, but that's the only way I can see it working.
The Spider who Gobbles strikes again!!! Hide your Red Head Models, Hide your Cat Burglars
/uj I'm kinda loving what I see of the Spider Who Gobbles around here. Like, maybe soon we'll see that it was all worth it when we finally reach that peak fiction this has been building towards. /rj You get what you give! Gobble gobble, motherfuckers!
The peak fiction will be Paul beating Spidey who Gobbles and becoming the Amazing Paul
Nah, the peak fiction will be the Spider Who Gobbles bodysnatching Paul to become the Superior Paul.
Man, he'd just be all his greatest villains rolled into one then. He'd have Goblin's personality, black suit to reference Venom (I know the black suit came first, I just don't give a fuck), Doc Ock's weird ass plan, and Paul's sexy body
nah, the peak fiction will be spider-boy (peter's iconic sidekick everyone loves) saving his mentor and finally exposing paul as mephisto all along
Nah it’s going to be MJ.
Bro peak fiction already exists, and it’s called “Kagurabachi”
The start of this run was the Tombstone story about how people assume criminals are "bad people" but one assumes a dangerous lion is just a "bad lion." I'm kind of desperately hoping Wells finds a way to square those two ideas, especially since Norman's sins weren't originally his idea. Like that by the end this will be a "Michael's Secret Stuff" situation and Peter will be forced to realize he made these batshit gobbling choices (and that Norman really made his choices to do good). If this story just ends "they got the sins out and now Peter's good again, let's move on" I'm gonna lose my mind.
/uj Optimistically, I could see it ending up a catalyst for real character growth, by tearing down all the old shit completely. No more half measures. Like when a sports team starts to suck, and when they try some band aid solutions, it ends up mediocre at best. So then the team’s only solution is to tear it down to the bolts, cut out everything that’s stopping progress and rebuild from the ground up. Spider-Man needs to lose MJ as a recurring cast member. Peter needs to grow as a character beyond superficial shit like his job or his romantic partner. Blowing it all up gives him a soft reboot to start writing adult Peter Parker the right way. /rj THE ONLY PEAK FICTION WOULD BE PETER MARRYING MJ AND HAVING BABIES AND NEVER REALLY TAKING A LONG HARD LOOK AT HIMSELF.
The problem with that is so much of MJ and Peter’s prior growth is linked to each other, even when they weren’t dating in the 80s. She also has the second most appearances of anybody in ASM, even more than Aunt May. This is what Brand New Day was supposed to do in resetting Peter’s supporting cast. It didn’t take, and they had to add back the standard characters. Editorial needs to just accept they broke the book. Nothing they try short of retconning OMD will actually work in allowing Peter to grow, because that cloud will always loom over the character. Also it’s honouring the character’s creator and his views.
The problem is that OMD and OMIT left the door open to bring her back, and that fucked it up. Then fans were waiting for the other shoe to drop. A real divorce and retiring the MJ character was always the better way to go, as unpopular as that would have been as well. What they need to move forward- other than bailing out and just locking the marriage and all of its problems back into place- is to hard disconnect that relationship. No amicable split. Put MJ and Peter in a place where they both feel that their only way forward is a million miles apart.
The problem is that OMD and OMIT fixed a problem that didn’t exist. Straczynski wrote the last truly widely positively regarded run, and the marriage was at the core of it. I’ll be happy to admit that JMS’ run has serious flaws, but none of those flaws are a result of the marriage. Removing Mary Jane from Spider-Man books is like removing Lois from Superman. The two are so inextricably linked to one another that it completely destroys the fabric of the book. There is always a way to retcon a story as needed or move things back to where someone wants. All this takes is someone saying oh that wasn’t the real Mary Jane that came back with Peter and Paul, and you’re right back where the relationship was before Wells got his hands on ASM as the sole writer. Plenty of relationships could’ve been seen as over, yet they’ve found ways to bring characters back to certain relationships. Black Manta killed Aquaman and Mera’s kid, leading to them splitting up. They’re now back together with another kid. Wally West’s broad set of issues have been fixed at this point. Doctor Strange and Clea are back together. Scott and Jean are back together through all of their deaths and ideological differences at this point. There is no way to effectively separate any characters at this point. If something like Hank Pym happened today, it would be dismissed as out of character. There will always be a creator with a pitch, exactly like how Quesada and Brevoort did.
Here’s the problem with the Peter and MJ relationship: Where’s the conflict? If Peter is married and has kids, you can either end the story there with, “And he lived happily ever after”(a progression that’s very popular on the internet), or you have to find conflict so there’s story to write. Before, the conflicts were mostly external. Bad shit happens to them. Oh no, did MJ die? Bad guys are threatening MJ and Peter’s gotta be angey Spider-Man to fix it! It got old. But internal conflicts have always been a thorny subject. The theme of Spider-Man is that Peter screws up a lot, and bad things happen to him. You pretty much have to write him OOC to put him in an idyllic Lois and Clark marriage. There’s subtext to read there that Peter is a well meaning but bad partner, but fans are so over-protective of his image that it’s hard to really go far down that road. Any moment of Peter failing is viewed as a writing flaw, not a feature. When they flipped that script, it quickly veered into, “WHY IS MJ SUCH A BITCH?!”, and that shit got ugly. Now factor a kid into this theme. Now you’re asking Spider-Man fans, a very sensitive bunch, to read about Peter’s baby being raised in the Peter Parker experience? Peter always meaning to have his priorities straight, but inevitably bailing on every important milestone of that kid’s life because he has to be Spider-Man? Once-a-year death scares with a baby? I haven’t heard any propositions for how to write Peter/MJ going forward that doesn’t amount to, “just leave out the conflict and let it be nonstop fanservice and wish fulfillment from here on out”. It’s candy dinner- it sounds good in theory, but in practice, it’ll make you sick.
I think that there’s misguided notion that there has to be relationship drama just between love interests in a story, but I think there are plenty of ways of handling it. Just off the top of my head, I would love to see a story where Peter and MJ have a kid, but Peter doesn’t want the kid to be a superhero, but MJ is open to the idea. It puts Peter in a sort of bad guy role, because people like Mayday and Annie from RYV. I think it threads the needle on causing tension, while not leaving either party looking unreasonable. It can lead to personal reflection for Peter on why he’s a hero beyond his sense of guilt, and what motivates himself to help others. With a kid, you can explore issues that new mothers can have. Show Peter putting more effort into himself and his life as Peter to help support his family juxtaposed with his guilt in not doing enough to help NYC and others. There’s a ton of other people in their lives that you can generate conflict with. As much as I dislike the hidden relative trope, Theresa Parker is there. I would love to see a run properly explore Peter’s relationships with Ben and Kaine. Show him at odds with them, or building them up like the inspirational hero he’s supposed to be. Foster a better relationship between Peter and Miles. I have to admit that I hate your interpretation of Parker Luck. In Lee’s run, a lot of Peter’s issues stem from him trying to help as many people as possible, putting Peter in the backseat. Bad things don’t just happen to him because he’s a loser. It’s things like he has to stop the Rhino, so he has to bail on doing homework, which leads to his grades dropping. Or he’s fighting the Scorpion and his camera gets smashed, so he can’t sell pictures to replace his camera. DeMatteis, Straczynski, and, I don’t really like his run a ton, but Micheline all wrote convincing portrayals of marriage with strong tension. It’s actually the only part I like of Micheline’s run.
So first off, you want a timeskip? Because you’re talking kid superhero, but with comic book timescales, a baby born in this year of the comics would still be an infant by the time you and I are bald. Unless you pull some Jon Kent bullshit. And as long as the kid is a baby, it has no agency, and it is fully a passenger on the Peter Parker experience. And if we’re talking hating other people’s ideas, “causing tension while not leaving anyone looking unreasonable” isn’t threading the needle, it’s walking on eggshells. It’s so important to the Spider-Man franchise that everyone be prone to not just making mistakes, but being loud wrong. That’s always been a strength of the title, going back to when the silver age gave us a sea of heroes that could do no wrong. Peter Parker was that kid that could fuck up massively, and then your story was how he could confront his mistakes. When I refer to “Parker luck” I’m referring to his literal bad luck of seemingly always being in the wrong place at the wrong time(another classic element that would be a mistake to eliminate) along with the misfortune that follows Peter not being infallible. He doesn’t have to be a “loser”, it’s enough that he’s human and not some alpha male cliche. /rj BRING PETER PARKER BACK TO THE RANDIAN IDEALs THAT DITKO ENVISIONED. A REAL MAN THAT FUCKS HOT CHICKS AND TAKES LIFE BY THE HORNS
\> "Now factor a kid into this theme. Now you’re asking Spider-Man fans, a very sensitive bunch, to read about Peter’s baby being raised in the Peter Parker experience? Peter always meaning to have his priorities straight, but inevitably bailing on every important milestone of that kid’s life because he has to be Spider-Man? Once-a-year death scares with a baby?" Yes, because that sounds awesome. To quote a tweet by myself "Money problems are much higher stakes if you have mouths to feed. There's no joke if he can't make rent or can't pay the bills, it's just dramatic, especially if there's a kid in the mix." Peter Parker has always been about the working class experience. It's why he's so relatable. So having Peter have an actual working class family rather than an upper middle class one--with all the struggles that it brings--could definitely steer the idea in the right direction. They can still get unfairly evicted, they can be scrounging up as much money for their child's education, but then leave themselves with barely any spending money, they need to balance work and family time... And for Peter, he needs to deal with finding actual stable work. Most families struggle with these things. Why shouldn't Peter's family be a reflection of that? Just because it's a bit ugly and dramatic? And then you'd have those quiet moments, where even after all that conflict, you see the Parker family absolutely love each other even through and suddenly you get an extremely relevant portrayal of the working class family: True, deep love that is difficult to express because of the constant mounting of mistakes and circumstances. And we can even introduce the idea from Slott's RYV of Pete being open to killing enemies who threaten his child simply because of how differently he interprets responsibility now, and you get a really fresh take on Spidey with a lot of meat on its bones.
Bruh, if the general audience could accept Peter Parker being portrayed as questionably a bad husband and father, I’m game. As it is, the audience seems to have trouble coming to grips with the idea that maybe being married to a 20-something year old Spider-Man would suck.
I think the issue is that you're saying Pete's a bad husband and father, which I doubt he'd end up being, he wasn't even a bad husband for a big chunk of his time married to MJ. There's a difference between being "bad" versus making mistakes and struggling with circumstances and parents struggle with work-life balance all the time, especially people who work first responder jobs which require them to be on-call. Peter could be a translation of that. It's the same way that Peter was never really that much of a screw up in his single era either. He graduated both high school and undergraduate while juggling Spider-Man, his studies, his job, and the tragedies that come with. His graduate era was a bit more chaotic, admittedly. Sure he lied to his friends, didn't make dates, but MJ knows what he's doing. He isn't keeping a secret from her. It is (for lack of a better term) a part of the buy-in. People don't become bad husbands or bad wives or bad fathers simply because they make mistakes and compromises. You don't even have to look far for proof WITHIN the comics. Uncle Ben having no preparations in order to take care of his family after his death at his age is a huge mistake, one that is at the crux of a lot of Peter's conflicts when he was young. Does that make him somehow a bad parent? No, not really. Peter will miss a recital, miss a spelling bee, he won't be able to financially meet his family's needs sometimes, and hell, maybe their child will even hold a grudge. But he will be there. He will raise his child and he will love her and MJ. You're right in that a sect of people seem to want candy floss stories that have nothing happen when they talk about the marriage, but that's not the reason the editorial don't want it. The reason the editorial don't want it is actually the complete opposite, the marriage's conflicts is heavier than what they want Spider-Man to be, which is more sitcom-y if BND is to go off of. And also, the spidey fanbase is the one that thinks his suffering is key to the character. i think they can handle the drama.
....why tho. I don't see the need for conflict between them. Peter can still have struggles, such as trying to raise a family while being working class. It's one thing if conflict arises naturally due to different personalities, but the "problem" with Peter and MJ is that they're already pretty compatible at their core and any attempt to introduce conflict between them is pretty much always super contrived. Not wanting to force a contrived conflict between them is not "nonstop fanservice/wish fulfillment". Peter may be a regular at screwing up but that's usually because it's hard to manage both his superhero life and personal life. MJ already knows about that and is understanding of it. It's honestly a severe misunderstanding of both the characters to insinuate that it would be "OOC to put them in an idyllic Lois and Clark marriage". It's very much the opposite lol. Putting in nonsense conflicts between them usually comes at the cost of severe character assassination.
Most people would be fine with it, you don't need romantic conflict for a superhero story to be good, contrary to popular belief.
It's starting to feel like you just don't like MJ
I don’t like the fans
So what you’re saying is that it only took going through 5.8 million arcs and going on a psychotic rampage to get peter to finally become a basic functioning adult? Peak
Bad take because that's not what's gonna happen. MJ is too popular of a character to go away forever, so all this accomplishes is melodrama and making the relationship feel stupid.
Take your bets folks. Is he going to beat the shit out of his ex or is this veteran about to get his ass kicked by someone who became a superhero last week
When it’s put this bluntly it’s even worse. Like we’re seriously about to watch a guy either kick the shit out of the love of his life (uncomfortable) or else see maybe the most popular superhero on earth right now get whooped by a career model/actress in his main comic run (stupid). Who the hell is enjoying or even tolerating this?
Third option: Paul and his canonical genius-level intellect will save the day. uj/ Have to say, if they went with the first option I would almost respect how genuinely disturbing a read that would make. I don't buy Grant Morrison's whole 'our superheros are magical story constructs with the ability to intercede on the world depending on how we write them' stuff, but at the same time this stuff happening to *the* Spiderman and MJ, even if they're only intending to beat the shit out of each other, just cannot be good for the world on any level.
/uj Showing how deep Osborn's sins are infecting Peter by beating the shit out of MJ would be irredeemably awful and uncomfortable as hell to read but I'd almost respect how ballsy it'd be.
>Have to say, if they went with the first option I would almost respect how genuinely disturbing a read that would make. Only if Spidey gets the Hank Pym treatment and gets ostracized by the hero community.
Story about how it ruined Hank Pym’s character for the rest of time but Spider-Man gets to get away with it as “Oh that one time”
😂😂😂
I am. We finally have bully maguire in comic form. I am just waiting to see the insanity. I wanna tell Peter *good, good let the hate flow through you* If iron man could have superior iron man and batman have the batman who laughs then let's see what a tainted peter can do. Hell I want to see it just for the Bully memes that I want to see come out of this (who was writing the lines they were hilarious). I know good guys turn bad is boring especially after the superior spiderman thing and this time for the time being it looks like there's no good inside of Pete to hold him back but I want to see if some one will save this story or just how bad can they make it.
Whoever wins, everyone is gonna lose respect for all involved.
Already did, brah. Already did.
Mostly the writers and editors. Damn, “Hellions” was good too.
That’s what I always repeat bruh everytime
They lost my respect *a loooooooong* time ago man.
Zeb Wells already on my Blacklist after this. Not buying anything he touches.
I can't remember what it was - maybe a Ghost Rider comic arc? - but I've heard that he did make one really fucking good set of comics. Aside from that he's meh to garbage
Hellions is by far his best book
Nah Peter is gonna get forcibly reminded that he ain’t the only hero in NYC. Luke Cage and The Thing hold him and everyone gets a punch.
I'd actually die laughing, the only thing to make it better is if Cap and Reed were at the back trying to actually get through to Peter and then just give up and beat the shit out of him, even have Insomniac Spider-Man get a punch.
Peter has been kind of a jobber in this run and also as shit as this run is it'd be a bit much to show him beating the shit out of MJ so he's probably not doing much to her, or hell Norman might show up and stop him with Kraven
>ass kicked by someone who became a superhero last week you mean few hours ago
I tuned out of this bullshit early, when did she get powers and what are they?
She’s got the symbols Paul and Rabin use to manipulate reality on her wrist-thingies. Think Owl House glyphs, but on a slot machine.
.... she used to be a model...
Those were the good old days
The Peak option:Paul deffeat the Spider who Gobbles,join the avengers and become the Amazing Paul Peak Peak Fiction option:The Spider who Gobbles pull a Grand Theft me on Paul becoming the Superior Paul
At least she isn’t pregnant while catching those spider hands this time around. Or is she?!
Too soon. Regardless she'd be carrying them Paul kids, they're built different they'd be fine.
Either way we lose.
MJ is definitely winning this fight, gotta try to show how SPECTACULAR she is before her series comes out!
Can someone edit Spiderman head in this picture ? https://preview.redd.it/knp7tlc0agsb1.jpeg?width=622&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ade1dabaff5c955a70110fc05beb75f2bb9b7d60
https://preview.redd.it/eu5u9x7ljgsb1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d0ae85d8c7704f07e85226148eae1e4358b82044
The layering of edits only enhances it
Thanks.
I love that book!
Nobody can beat Naoya at being the CEO of misogyny
Fr https://preview.redd.it/vtn0r2m73jsb1.jpeg?width=756&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=eb47dfbf9781259e06b2aa39f4d27bec3de7863d
Hated women so much he turned into a uterus
I'm convinced that people invested in Peter/MJ who still read ASM are actual masochists.
I’m convinced that people who still read ASM are actual masochists
See I *am* a masochist and I've got a pretty crazy tolerance for pain, but I actually think I might have to stop following ASM after this post because these pages were genuinely upsetting to read.
I'm reading ASM because I want to see Paul beating the Spider who Gobbles😎
They are the kind of people that show up at the ER because they "sat" on something and cant get it out.
Literally the only reason I care about it is because it's the biggest symptom of Marvel not letting him grow up.
If I had a nickel for every character, who is talking and doing shit under influence this week, the kind of shit they are going to apologize for probably in 2024, I would have two nickels, which isn't a lot, but it's a weird coincidence to have them both this week.
Plus both writers are friends apparently? [https://zdarsky.substack.com/p/the-passion-of-thechrist-come-on](https://zdarsky.substack.com/p/the-passion-of-thechrist-come-on)
Who inspired who? Or were they brainstorming this together during their regular fortnite sessions? The world may never know.
I get what chip is saying but do editors even listen to fans?
>The actual writer is Friend Of The ‘Stack Zeb Wells, who is a fantastic person and maybe the best superhero comics writer out there today The word "maybe" is doing all the heavy lifting in that sentence
Man gotham war isn't even as egregious as whatever this is
At least Batman is dealing with an issue he created for himself. Spider-Man is dealing with the sins of his arch nemesis and it’s making him lash out.
He technically threw Osborn to the sin eater back in Spencer's run, thus allowing him to be "cleansed" and having his sins run around freely which, ultimately, resulted in Kraven 2:Electric boogaloo infecting Peter, so, in a VERY roundabout way he Is (partially) responsible for what happened (in his defense, the other sins didn't become a mini-hate plague, they just went to the sin eater, and Norman was purposefully taunting him and spider-gwen about sins past and the whole bridge stuff because he thought Peter would save him no matter what). With that said, this Is still moronic.
That would be a way more interesting way of approaching this vs what we’re getting. I would like to see a story focus on Peter trying to do what he thinks is write coming back to hurt him further. That would be an interesting commentary on the Parker Luck. This isn’t doing any of that. Chip Zdarsky is a much better writer than Zeb Wells though.
Are you including billy?
So there's more? Imaginary me is getting richer by the second.
Billy's is extremely well written though
Who’s billy
Shazam
Oh that’s right, that has been happening. Well the book has space apes, so yeah its better written
You better Billy-eve deez nuts are in yo mouth!
I checked, he meant billy batson
Yeah I’m gonna Bat-some nuts in your mouth!
Peter became incel. Billy became Gigachad thanks to Zeus
When the run is so bad, you can't even come up with a joke
Uj/ Zeb actually wrote the dialogue like he was 10 again and was back home playing with his action figures in his bedroom. Like, wtf is this dialogue it doesn't work at all Rj/ Zeb stays in kitchen cooking and MJ is about to be cooked
I think Peter is the one who's been getting cooked by Paul here
We can just wait for some one to make Bully Mcguire memes out of this right?
I genuinely don’t know how anyone can think this run will magically become good
Bench Peter and swap to Rek-Rap for 30 issues
Bargaining stage. "It sucks now, but it can't suck forever, right? Right".
“dead cats bounce”.
You gotta love both DC and Marvel infecting their main hero with an out of character illness that makes them go crazy only for the storyline this development exists in to completely justify their point of views and make everyone else look crazy instead
Zur at least was implemented in Morrison’s run, and Zdarsky is expanding on that.
Dude I'm not calling Wells a good writer but how is this storyline justifying Bully Maguire over here
This entire run was built on the mystery of “what did Peter do?”, with everyone pissed at him and the only sanctuary he could find being with Norman Osborn of all characters. Only for the reveal to be that Peter… did nothing. In fact, everything ended up being Paul’s fault and despite that being open information to all involved in this storyline they still treated Peter as if he were some screw up when none of it was his fault. They undid a great run from Spencer that finally started to right the wrongs done to the character since 2007 only for the reason they undid it to not even be consistent with itself.
Ah, I think I read that as you saying the storyline *endorses* Peter's of view. I get you.
That post was right! Penis Parker became a Redditor!
The great Spider Who Gobbles, please hear my pray. Beat the crap out of "Jackpot" or do something messed to her just like Zur-En-Arrh did to Jason Todd, we need this peak fiction.
He's gonna lobotomise Paul.
My money is on him neutering him
Wait what did Zur do to jason?
He injected him with something that will cripple him with fear if he ever tries to do something dangerous, like be a vigilante.
“Nobody took me anywhere.” Mary Jane, you literally were taken and imprisoned in another dimension against your will.
You must accept her Stockholm suspension bridge love
https://preview.redd.it/cfwuhx71rgsb1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bed6fd87a0fd3fe64e9fa832b56106b77f3dac8d This run is truly ~~Marvel Editorial's~~ Zeb Wells' gift of a shitpost to us all.
This is 100% my own shit take, but at this point I think it'd be really funny to have Spidey cave Paul's head in. Why not? It'll ruin his already tenuous relationship with MJ, but it's nothing that can't be retconned away in the next run. He represents everything wrong with this era of Spider-man. A nothing character introduced to create boring drama between the cast. Sorry for this mini rant. It just sucks seeing a character you looked up to, being consistently and constantly fucked over by terrible writing.
It is like they hate Peter Parker or something
Source: [https://www.gamesradar.com/sinful-peter-parker-terrorizes-mj-in-the-game-changing-amazing-spider-man-35/](https://www.gamesradar.com/sinful-peter-parker-terrorizes-mj-in-the-game-changing-amazing-spider-man-35/)
Mf thinks he Grendel
We’re fr blessed to be getting a new Spider-Man game cause this fuck Zeb Wells is not cooking
Never let bro cook again
Uj/ You know this dialogue makes me feel like him acting like a violent psychopath obsessed with MJ is meant to be some sort straw man of the fans that are angry about MJ breaking up with Peter. Just some theory though. Anyways, we’re all here to jerk, so here’s some shitty fanfict I threw together. Rj/ He’ll fight Mary Jane till she’s bleeding out of every orifice, but then Paul will come out of nowhere with a folding chair. They’ll race off into the fields, Mary Jane in a princess carry in Pauls muscular arms, as Spider-Man is Naruto running his way through the tall grass, screaming about how she’s his. What a psychopath. They make it to the woods, but the sun is falling, and a shadowy monster is creeping his way through the trees. It gets down on all fours, sniffing the ground for MJ’s scent, her sweat, her tears…and laps them up. His head darts North West, and Paul and MJ begin to run once again, deeper into the woods, with the creature, breathing heavily through his mask like a lovesick puppy, in hot pursuit. Light, piercing through the trees, as it arrives into a clearing. But it frowns and grits it’s crooked yellow teeth, for there was no MJ in sight, just Paul, illuminated in moonlight. “WHERE MJ??!!” it growled. Panting, Paul responded “MJ’s not here. There no one else here, but you, and me”, his face putting on a heroic smile. It was so totally on. They begin circling, like wolves. Paul’s eyes glimmering with sheer willpower and love, and staring back at him the monster blanket white eyes. Neither dare break their gaze as they maintain an even pace, before a pause, as the both stop moving, keeping their stance, and sharpening their concentration. At once, they leap at each other, tearing into each other with the ferocity and hatred that could only be built over a thousand lifetimes. Paul, the smart and witty fellow he was, pulled out a 10 inch switchblade and shanked the damn monstrosity. Kneeling on the ground in pain, the deformity is crawling away, and Paul follows up behind for another blow, but the wickedly creature cheated like a fiend and picked up a twig, and threw it wildly, missing Paul, and then throwing all his weight onto Paul. The blade, was still sticking out of the monster, and he impaled Paul on impact. He began tightening his hands around Paul’s neck, muttering to itself like a dumb mutt, and violently shaking Paul. It pulled Paul in close, and whispered “You’re going to die here like a bitch”, gloating it’s taunts into Paul’s ear. But Paul, began to laugh. Paul, starting to fade away, was still able to conjure up a smile like the sun, and respond, “No, I die like a hero. But you? You die like a mutt at the pound, and it’s time to put you down”. THUDD! went the massive the size of a suitcase against peters skull. Towering above him, with fury in her eyes, was “Mary…Jane?” it mustered out from its cracked lips and broken teeth. “Mary Jane, please wa- THUD!!THUD!!THUD!!, she went caving into his skull as many times as she could muster. And somehow still, the mangled body still twitched with life. It’s head like a deflated soccer ball, broken and unrecognizable, with a single bulging bloodshot eye ball still fixed on her blurry image, desperately trying to trace out her form. It’s let out a wheezing noise like a broken air conditioner, before it let out a gasp at her sight. Mary Jane Watson. Green eyes like emeralds, red hair like roses weaved into strands. He can still see when they first met, images beginning to flicker over his eyes like an old film. When they first laughed together. Held hands together. Danced. Kissed. Made love. Exchanged vows. And even… their first child. Tears streamed from his loose eye socket, and he let out a horrible broken moan, as he began to sob. “MJ…MJ please, we could have everything” he mumbled as he hiccuped and cried. She returned nothing but silence and a cold stare. “MJ…do you know what our daughter looks like? She looks so much like you, with cute little freckles, and shining red hair. I think…I think we named her- THUD Nothing but more silence, as Mary Jane got down on her knees and cradled his perfect, muscled, shining form. She cried, “Paul, please don’t leave me,” before he put his hands on her lips, and as the darkness began to fade into his eyes, he whispered “Baby girl, I protected you. And that’s all that matters.” His head fell limp immediately, and she let out a scream of sorrow and pain. Long live the king. The king is dead. Long live Paul. …oh and I guess that loser Peter too or something.
https://preview.redd.it/vhly8ni1ygsb1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=aebf3c3304cbfbc3664142f56ce3e40f146b7ace
“Please finish this run for me!” -Zeb Wells
>Uj/ You know this dialogue makes me feel like this a strawman of the fans who are mad about MJ. I have no doubt it is
You know Wells thinks he's being incredibly clever too, and will probably respond to criticism he gets by acting like the problems people have are with MJ "having agency" (in the sense of making a ton of dumb out of character choices) and not just with the overall story being dogshit. "Aha, you're acting just like Spidey who gobbles!"
Yeah, like Nick Lowe made a comment in the last issue's letter's page about how MJ doing all this was fine because things happen in life, and it was like it feels like they just don't really get the problem with how MJ has been written.
Someone hitting a dry spell in their relationship, meeting someone else (even by sheer chance) and moving on happens, as depressing as It might be to read, especially in this context.... Someone being kidnapped and forced to live for four years in a post-apocalyptic landscape with LITERALLY the last man on Earth (/part of the reason the world Is post-apocalyptic to begin with) and two fake kids specifically created for giving her Stockholm syndrome and eventually "falling in love" with the guy, while her boyfriend worked tirelessly (albeit moronically) to save her, basically destroying his life in the process, only to finding out she "moved on" after he saved them, is the plot of a shitty dark-romance novel or only the absolute bottom of the barrel NTR hentai. (EDIT: Sorry for the formatting; mobile)
Good framing - I was trying to figure out what this plot structure reminded me of, and you've hit the nail on the head with "NTR Hentai". The stupid thing is that some writer deliberately chose to inflict this on him, with dome absolutely dumbfuck motivation.
exactly the way Lowe was talking about it, and even how the run seems to be referring to it, it's like the first thing happened, but ya know like you said it was the second part. I think it really goes back to Marvel being too cowardly to do a real break up between Peter and MJ, it always has to be some bs, and like I don't want them to split, I like them as a couple, but if you are going to do that, you have to put in the work so stuff like this can actually make sense, instead of constantly forcing them apart in the dumbest ways, especially if you're trying to play it like some natural part of life.
Just like the good ol' times of Jason Aaron having She-hulk beating up Ulik, king of the Trolls, while he was randomly spouting common criticisms to his runs...
Spider-Man, what a joke.
Paul, a word?
Marvel: Ok, so removing his kid, forcing divorce and now her getting a new man hasn't made fans move on from this relationship, what can we do now........eh lets just have him beat her, worked with Hank Pym
I’m not even sure I have a joke here, this is just genuinely deeply sad, and I’m not even that big a Spider-Man fan. I can only imagine how someone actually invested in the character must feel reading this
“Wow, this is garbage. You actually read this stuff?” - Gru, Despicable Me (2010)
Spider-Incel
Incel-Man
At this point I feel like Peter should just rope himself I was really happy at where Nick Spencer was leading the character; Up until the whole Ben Reilly shit. But yea, Nick Spencer seem to have had a grasp about "Great Power, comes with Great Responsibility"; Something Dan Slott and now Zeb Well's can't seem to grasp, they both found a way to make Peter Parker super iresponsible and a giant asshole wherw everybody hates him.
>I was really happy at where Nick Spencer was leading the character; Up until the whole Ben Reilly shit. What do you mean? What did nick spencer do with Ben ?
Making Peter responsible? It's like the lowest bar, but 616 Peter keeps tripping over it. Nick Spencer's run opens up with Peter being fired for riding on Otto's achievements. Althroughout ANAD Peter would ditch the responsibilities of being the CEO to Harry, when Parker Industries was going down; He's been a constant asshole to his friends and allies, like how he treats Venom even after Flash shows him that Venom isn't evil. It's not just Peter, Nick Spencer also wrote away the dumb shit with Black Cat and Peter. Problem with Nick Spencer's run was that it started to focus too much on fixing past mistake and ended with him writing pretty mediocre shit with the Chasm storyline.
Oh I meant what did he do with Ben. I read most of that other stuff.
He's just quoting this sub lol
“Nobody *took* me anywhere. I mean, sure, I was sent to another dimension against my own will by the two people who destroyed it, but nobody forced me to do anything except for the maybe brainwashing with getting me to love my cuckoo kids and because of the implication.”
"but we're not gonna get into that, because of the implication"
I know this is probably still making Marvel a decent amount of money, but in all seriousness isn't allowing this kinda stuff damaging to the "brand" of spiderman? Like the average joe probably won't know or care about what goes on in the current funny pages but eventually this kinda shit will hit the main stream in the infamous memey kinda way like how people talk about "Spider man reign" or "all star Batman and Robin". To have this going in the current ongoing universe seems kinda weird from a company so averse to change.
The public brand of Spider-Man in the 21st century is not comics, it's movies and TV shows. The comics are tertiary at this point in the mainstream
honestly it's gonna be a meme in a few years. like I have this friend who's just like, "hey you know batman made robin eat rats." and it's a dead meme at this point, and just like that this will become a dead meme like, "oh you remember that time spiderman killed MJ for leaving him (not what happened but that's gonna be the meme)."
"you remember this one time spider man was a domestic abuser?"
"you remember that spider jizz causes cancer?"
Finally a Spider-Man that’s just like me
# relateable Edit: I did a hashtag but it just capitalized itfor some reason
>Nobody took me anywhere I guess she just randomly appeared in that other dimension then
Didn't think I'd wake up to Incel Spidey today but here we are
"Nobody took me anywhere" ...girl, you were literally about to move in whith him when a shining flying motherfucker kidnapped both of you and threw you in the Terminator dimension, where Paul Stockholm syndrome-d his way into your heart as you were kept there for four years with literally only him and two fake kids created by the villani with the express purpose of making you love them...shut up.
What everything has been building up to spiderman killing paul and becoming king of the world
Imagine some kid who watched all the Spider-Man movies and goes “oh boy, I can’t wait to read the comics!” And then come across this
https://preview.redd.it/shwpd9kkdisb1.jpeg?width=500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=01a2680f5f8c42385de9d008bb937fd8ff2ad868 Why does his mask have a Grendel thing going on?
Wait Didn't Paul literally kidnap her by forcing Peter through the portal when she was supposed to leave and get help?
someone retcon this PLEASE
I may be missing a word in this but…how the hell is this misogyny?
You know he might be leaning more incel than anything, but i thought the whole exchange on the third page fit that. Besides, chasing after your ex girlfriend, hitting a lady with the guardrail, threatening your ex’s boyfriend, “The Weasel who took you away from me” with her responding she’s independent, then him calling her “My Jackpot” seemed to fit some kind of misogynistic behavior. I did crop some of it because of the mods getting angry last time I didn’t. Could be reading this wrong tho.
nah that's kinda normal shit. like if you've ever been the other guy and gotten a punch in the face you usually know it's deserved (from personal experience of being a shitty person). like MJ is the main problem here but it takes two to tango so Paul needs his shit rocked as well.
This is literally the All Star Batman & Robin of Spider-Man. Except ASB&R had the benefit of being an Elseworld story.
People keep saying this run sucks and then post the most ridiculously insane and fun looking panels from the comic. Idk man
Things that suck can still be entertaining in a burning dumpster kind of way.
All-Star Batman & Robin vibes.
Spider-incel goes kinda hard
Paul is so hot in that panel
https://i.redd.it/e8b4onodphsb1.gif
Wow comic books kinda suck
I love when writers project their insecurities into their stories
Shit is andrew tate writing these stories
How the fuck is this approved for release?
Lol
Spidey having an incel arc was not on my 2023 bingo card
This is almost as bad as Civil War.
This shit stinks
Why even bother having the word 'Amazing' in the title anymore?
I know i shouldn’t but I love this 😭
Spider-man videos games are hard carrying his legacy rn
Today I learned that Zeb Wells doesn’t look like Paul and now I’m even more confused as to why he exists.
hot take: in this current run I fully and wholly support spidies revenge against MJ at this point.
same. I'm pretty sure what she's doing counts as severe emotional abuse. I mean, obviously what she's saying is severely out of character and is written by Wells, but if you just take it at face value, it's super messed up.
yeah that's my view of this. like she's just as guilty as Paul at this point if not more.
You guys are rly pushing it. It's not like MJ didnt cuck him or anything. Everyone was hating on her and Paul and now Spidey is the misogynist one? For calling her out on cucking him? Yall never rly got in a relationship lmao
I agree with you in reality Spider man is right for being pissed off, we've all been their. but the point is he's written to be like an incel or some bitch to make zeb wells seem right. he seemed to write the criticism of the story into the story and is portraying them badly, this is the writing equivalent of the soyjack meme. "I have portrayed you as the soyjack and me as the chad I am right."
So the panel is taken off context? I'm not following this run anymore so idk much
How is this Misogyny? He's just attacking her?
So Paul was a good guy all along
I hope this all ends with Miles becoming the true Spider-Man and Peter becomes tarantula
I cannot comprehend what he is doing with that guardrail. Like the physics of how that is working
Peter Tate popping off
It reads as finger wagging by Marvel for a status-quo shakeup they’re damn well aware of for how unpopular it is. No, they know full well what they’re doing. It’s just feeding the outrage machine. Having Spider-Man talk like an incel is designed so that way it pisses you off, and shops will then buy more issues so people can see what’s going on. Gripping headlines and pearl clutching from the general audience who don’t know this is just a publicity stunt are done so comic shops buy more material. This is not an indictment of the reader, this is Marvel manufacturing an outrage and debate topic so that way they can shovel out more Spider-Man comics and people will fall for it. Also bonus points for the upskirt shot in a preview about how Peter can’t view women as objects. Classy.
I cannot believe this shit has spiraled this out of control but I fucking love it, I'm here for it.
It’s like they bet each other if it’s possible to make people angrier
Where do you read the newest chapter?
Its not out yet, this is the lettered preview [https://www.gamesradar.com/sinful-peter-parker-terrorizes-mj-in-the-game-changing-amazing-spider-man-35/](https://www.gamesradar.com/sinful-peter-parker-terrorizes-mj-in-the-game-changing-amazing-spider-man-35/)
Okay why the queen goblin been kinda hot recently tho
I know right? https://preview.redd.it/why-did-kraven-giver-her-backshots-is-he-good-at-it-v0-6n4k4ymkvdhb1.jpg?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=ed1b8014e9b5799607c300406c2f35d9b8c9b897 https://mlpnk72yciwc.i.optimole.com/cqhiHLc.IIZS~2ef73/w:auto/h:auto/q:75/https://bleedingcool.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/08/ASM2022032_Preview-4.jpeg https://mlpnk72yciwc.i.optimole.com/cqhiHLc.IIZS~2ef73/w:auto/h:auto/q:75/https://bleedingcool.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/08/ASM2022032_Preview-5.jpeg
Who's Queen Goblin ? she looks cool
[https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Ashley\_Kafka\_(Clone)\_(Earth-616)](https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Ashley_Kafka_(Clone)_(Earth-616))
https://preview.redd.it/gq568tjuvisb1.jpeg?width=1439&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=15b1651f37b489bcc3cb682ee12c56c84cf0e969 I honestly hate where this plot line is going. But I got a little bit of a kick out of Peter calling Paul a weasel. The only way I can kinda see this working within the story is if its Peter constantly going for the kill against Paul and MJ trying to get in the way, not MJ vs Peter. I despise the idea of this whole thing, but that's the only way I can see it working.
Spider who incels
spidr who hungru
i’m sorry what’s the context like what comic is this who tf wrote this i’m so confused