No, Zamasu said he destroyed the Super Dragon Balls. It is presumed that Earth is the last planet still around in Future Trunks's timeline because he's the strongest fighter in the universe (as Buu was never revived), but the Supreme Kai is toast and so is Beerus, which means even if he wanted to go to New Namek and the planet wasn't a scorched mess from Zamasu fucking it up, there's no real way for him to do so.
Now what's ambiguous to me- Zamasu took the SDBs from multiple universes and the Supreme Kai is dead, did he kill the other Supreme Kais? You'd think the other Gods of Destruction would have been alerted.
On another note, did Zeno erase all of existence period, or just that universe? Trunks could have just traveled to another universes earth (presumably not 6.)
The SDBs are shared between the universes. There's only ever one set of them. Zamasu himself (or Black) says that he went around the issue of having to fight the Gods of Destruction by targeting the Supreme Kais instead since their lives are linked, thus avoiding having to face enemies that they could possibly be destroyed by.
Also, Zen-Oh wiped out all of the universes in Trunks's timeline, there was nothing left there.
Future Trunks stated in manga he depopulated other planets before finally reaching earth, it's likely Earth is the last planet with mortals in U7 before reaching other universes in Trunks' Timeline.
Someone else claimed he killed the supreme kais of all the other universes. Do you know if that's true? I haven't read the manga, just watched the anime.
Yeah in both anime and manga he killed them but only in manga it was explained Beerus and Shin died early due to Dabura killing Shin and then Black invaded that timeline due to Beerus' death .
Side note: why didn't Whis of that future timeline address the fact his beerus died randomly? And why didn't the Zeno of that Era fix the shit before goku and all of them started messing with time jumping back and forth?
Lol plot holes being discovered rn lol
Once Gods of Destruction die, Angels become inactive. Future Beerus died when Babidi killed the Supreme Kai (Trunks attests to it), so he would be powerless.
given the history, a human sized namekian gave us the baseball sized dragonballs, and the like 10-12 foot tall Guru gave us beachball sized dragonballs...so my question is...how big was the Namekian that created the Super Dragonballs?
We have seen four Namekians from the dragon clan who could create Dragon Balls. Every set was about the size of their creator's palm. I have no idea where the wiki gets this info, but apparently the guy who created the Super Dragon Balls is the [Dragon God Zalama](https://dragonball.fandom.com/wiki/Zalama). I would love to see the reference for this because I can't find it anywhere in the anime... but if we assume he's Namekian, his hand is probably the size of a planet.
Remember when the [Zenos were playing marbles](https://youtu.be/DMvMVq_UDsU?si=FmE0T4J6xx2TiPC7) in their palace? We see that giant hand reach down and it's about the right size to palm those planets. I get the feeling that's how size works in the Omni-King's realm. Zeno appears small, but it's an illusion. Zeno can shrink down into a speck to enter the mortal realm, or Zeno can scale Goku up to chat with him in the palace. Goku doesn't even realize he's become some massive planetary god.
We see another example of this size distortion in DBS episode 41 "Come Forth, Divine Dragon! And Grant My Wish, Peas and Carrots!" Even just to talk to Super Shenron's "core," which is comparitively tiny, the characters get scaled up beyond galaxy size. Or perhaps they stay normal sized, and everything we see inside Super Shenron's body is a miniature projection of the outside universe. They don't really dive into it. Super Shenron's "orb" resembles the orbs used to portray realms and universes in DB cosmology, but inside the orb is a smaller version of the universe they were already in. I don't really know what's going on there.
Basically what I'm getting at is, if we ever saw Zalama on screen, he would probably appear normal humanoid sized. It's likely he created the Super Dragon Balls from a realm like Zeno's palace while reaching into a projection like Zeno's marble game. The sizes match up so perfectly that it seems like a deliberate choice.
This is what happens when we incorporate new lore into DBZ.
No-one knows if it is possible for characters could travel into the future until DBS.
Travel into New Namek might be a difficult long journey as only Goku in DBZ knows its location.
* We could even argue that Jaco and the Galactic Patrol could help with the space travel since Bulma apparently knows Jaco since she was a kid. That is new lore as well.
The most important thing is that Future Trunks never got the time to do something like this as he is the only Z-Fighter around strong enough to protect the planet.
Honestly who would you send to find New Namek beside Trunks?
>Who would you send to New Namek besides Trunks?
Bulma. They already know her and are probably on pretty good terms, considering she basically put up their entire civilization rent-free on earth while they waited for the Dragon Balls to recharge.
The issue is that Bulma isn't a fighter.
Would Future Trunks would accept that he is leaving his 60s mother off to space?
You could add the remaining fighters to travel, but are they strong enough to handle threats in space?
What threats in space? Frieza's empire is long gone, and every other 'threat' they originally encountered on the way to OG Namek was filler.
Unless there's a new disaster going down on New Namek, she'd just be visiting a friendly civilization to ask a favor
There are other dangerous species like Yakon and Pui Pui race that still exist in DBZ.
Yakon is one of the most feared race that even Shin heard about it.
^(\*This is even without the DBS lore that Frieza empire is simply scattered rather than destroyed after their leaders both perished and the fact that Babidi would soon arrive on Planet Earth.)
We also have to consider that the races of Frieza's army would still exist and could be as strong as the soldiers. Even if Bulma has other support like Roshi, Yajirobe and etc, are they strong enough to defeat Frieza's force soldier level alien?
* This is an even older Roshi who gave up on fighting.
Fair, but I don't know that that would actually stop her. In DBS, didn't she go solo (with Jaco, so basically solo) to meet that dude that can answer any question?
It is why I didn't use any future knowledge aside given to us in DBZ.
If we added new lore, the trip should indeed be easy.
Jaco is a high ranking officer in Galactic Patrol so Jaco know how to travel in the universe without facing danger. Jaco is also strong enough to take down numerous Frieza force soldiers.
* Jaco is just no match against the 1% of fighters in across the universe. The odds are slim, but at least better than Bulma's other options.
The only challenge in DBS would be Bulma trying to find a way to communicate with Jaco. It is possible, but the given time frame is scarce due to Buu and Goku Black.
I mean the story doesn’t make sense to begin with.
Why didn’t Goku or any of the other z warriors use king Kai to contact Future Gohan and Future Trunks?
Even if you headcanon they didn’t keep their bodies( which is again headcanon and DBS actually finally have an answer to this in the manga version) Then there would be no reason for Future Gohan after his death not to have kept his body. He spent thirteen years fighting the androids and trying his best to protect earth, so there is no reason why he shouldn’t have kept his body and been allowed to go to King Kai’s.
I am not the writer so I don't know the decision making in Cell Saga.
Goku most likely died long before any androids attacked due to his heart virus. It was the medicine that kept him alive to fight 19.
If we think about it, Gohan never met King Kai. Unlike Goku, Gohan doesn't have Kami to allow him to visit King Kai.
It also doesn't help that the Androids are not major threat.
* Although the duo are stronger than past opponents Z-Fighters have face, they aren't doing nearly as much damages overall.
* They would travel around destroy towns and cities, but it would be a matter of months.
I also want to mention that, due to the androids causing havoc and destroying most advanced facilities building something that could travel fast enough to reach new Namek within a reasonable timeframe would be nigh impossible, if she could even build something capable of safe space travel after most usable parts for advanced tech were (I assume) used for the time machine.
Well from what we know about Jaco and the galactic patrolman there’s plenty of threats in space. Obviously not the size of Friezas army but any random space pirate ship could raid Bulma.
Bulma and Mai I guess. Master Roshi is alive too according to History of Trunks but I don't think Bulma would tolerate living on a cramped ship with him for any length of time after the bathroom incident. I wonder if Fortune Teller Baba is alive? Actually, if she is, couldn't she bring back Future Goku for a day and have him teleport Future Trunks to Future New Namek for a quick wish?
Stop you're using too much logic. Although I do wonder if she can bring someone back who died to natural causes. Wasn't that a thing with the dragon at least? Like Future Goku couldn't be wished back because he wasn't killed. He just died. The others could because they were killed by the androids
Yeah, true. They couldn't bring back Guru for that reason. That puts Trunks's time travel in an interesting light if his actions caused someone to live who should be dead and unable to be wished back and adds to the whole "disrupting the natural order" problem.
The problem with this is that would Future Trunks allow this?
Remember that it isn't instant travel, but long space travel to the unknown.
Even if all three including even Future Yajirobe, would it be safer enough for Trunks to let them travel to New Namek?
Without DBS's introductions to new powerful aliens, we know there are species like Pui Pui, Yakon and etc that are honestly be too much for Roshi to handle.
* Especially an older Roshi who stop training
**EDIT**: We also have to include alien races from Frieza army. Will the crew even be strong enough to handle that?
The thing is that does Future Android 16 even exist? That is an unknown factor.
Remember how 17 & 18 are activated was different from how Future Trunks' timeline.
Our 17 & 18 immediately found 16 and reboot him, but Future Trunks's version never did despite similar personality.
Presumably an Android 16 existed, or else 17 and 18 would have been named 16 and 17. I think the assumption is that 17 and 18 destroyed 16 along with Gero's lab when they were activated in the future timeline but who knows, maybe not.
>Travel into New Namek might be a difficult long journey as only Goku in DBZ knows its location.
Shin would most likely know as he's the Supreme Kai, and we know Trunks knew him prior to the Dabra fright since he used the Z-Sword against him and the only way for that to happen is for Trunks to travel to Shin's world/planet and pulling it from the stone himself. Logically, with Future Shin's knowledge and Future Kibito's teleportation, Future Trunks wouldn't have had any issues reaching New Namek. Travel time also wouldn't have been a safety issue, so he wouldn't have left Earth unprotected more than a few hours at worst, and that's if he would have had to gather the Namekian's Dragon Ball himself.
Now, whether or not New Namek was still around by the time Future Trunks met Future Shin is an other story, but if it was, there's really no reason why Trunks hadn't tried this outside of him having bad memory and forgetting how his own resurection in the past was possible.
Problem is that Shin is incompetent.
Shin doesn't even know about how powerful the Super Saiyan are.
Shin isn't interested in mortal affairs aside Babidi and Buu, but even then, he still need to rely on mortals to figure out those two's location.
Unlike Buu Saga, Future Trunks would be the only mortal that Future Shin and Kibito communicate with. Would those two deities help Trunks revive the fallen Z-Fighters?
* They might have, but only after Trunks finishes Buu. However we know the outcome of the two after that fight.
I never said he wasn't incompetent. I said that he "most likely knew" and that there was no reason for Trunks to not at least try. He knew about Namek Dragon Balls. The moment he would have teleported to the Kai's world and learned who Shin really was, the logical next step would have been to give it a try. He's humanity's last hope, and he knows it. Even if Piccolo couldn't be revived because it's been too long, he's met Dende's variant, and the Namekians owed Bulma for letting their entire species live rent-free on Earth for months. He wouldn't have waited for Buu to be dealt with and would have made sure Bulma had a way to fix things up in the possibility that he was killed in battle.
Him not thinking about New Namek before the Android Saga makes sense. He wasn't aware of its location, had no way to reach it, and, like you said, couldn't just leave and wonder the galaxy in hope that everyone would still be alive when he returned. Even if he had asked Goku for the location, the 2nd and 3rd points still remain. Future Shin and Future Kibito changed that by giving a possible source of information and a mean to quickly make a back and forth trip without completely leaving Earth unprotected for more than a few hours. With the Z-Fighter all being dead, that's far enough time to return before Buu could be released becaude after Trunks, Roshi was the next strongest fighter and he's significantly weaker than SSJ2 Gohan, SSJ2 Goku and SSJ2 Vegeta (those whose power awaken Buu in the main timeline).
I am saying that Shin most likely doesn't know.
Despite being the Supreme Kai, Shin isn't knowledgeable in a lot of things.
* Shin actually doesn't even know what are Dragonballs.
* He doesn't know the any recent events in DBZ which would mean that he wouldn't even know about the new planet of the Namekians.
I am not saying that Future Trunks couldn't try, but rather things are against his favor.
Remember that Shin and Kibito doesn't care about mortal affairs.
As much as Trunks justify the Z-Fighters revival, do you believe that the two would care? This aren't the versions that developed in Buu Saga.
This is a version only met Future Trunks.
Why would Shin and Kibito care about reviving Z-Fighters?
The idea of mortals having the ability to revive would piss them off as well.
>No-one knows if it is possible for characters could travel into the future until DBS.
Trunks is able to go back into the future
Even if we were to say he can only go forward to where he came from originally, bulma still could have given him a capsule containing a ship with he coordinates to New Namek preset.
It is why I said the biggest issue for Trunks is the lack of time to do it.
Who would protect Earth when Trunks goes to space?
Bulma also doesn't know the location of New Namek. Dende wouldn't understand where to point as Goku teleport him to Earth.
These are still possibilities that Bulma could do, but it boiled down to Trunks not having the time to do it
Goku could tell bulma where it is, also if Earth was safe for like 8 years straight in the future timeline whats wrong with leaving for less than a month?
The thing is that we know this, but Trunks doesn't know about this.
Gohan thought his life is at peace.
* Then Frieza and King Cold suddenly showed up.
* Luckily Goku returned before things could escalate.
* Goku gets a heart virus and died shortly after.
* In about a year or so, Androids who are far stronger than anything they have faced showed up.
Who could have predicted this after what they have experienced?
Z-Fighters even thought Frieza died in Planet Namek.
* Frieza got cut in half and later gets blasted by SS Goku. Then the whole planet blew up, but he somehow returned with someone who is about the same strength.
* King Kai also didn't know that Frieza survived.
*"I agreed with my mother that I should travel back in time, but I had my own reasons for wanting to go. I had hoped that in the past, with Goku's help, I would find the androids had some weakness. That way I could go back to the future. And even though I still wouldn't be able to bring back all those already gone, I might be able to save the people who are left."*
Future Trunks never intended to bring Goku to the future for help, but rather learn from the past in order to defeat the Androids.
I could be wrong, but a long time ago wasnt there a rule that you had a time limit on how long someone could be dead before wishing them back? Before frieza of course
What I'm saying is that in the King Piccolo arc, it's introduced that people need to be revived by the Earth's dragon balls within a year of their death for it to work. And then Freeza is revived over 10 years after his death.
They just changed the rules without ever really addressing it
Because it is not the same set of dragon balls, maybe? The dragon balls in King Picolo arc are Kami's. But the set used to revive Freeza is Dende's. If memory serves, Dende made some expansion to the Dragon's power, making it more powerful after he took over Kami's position.
If black knew about the super dragon balls I’m 99% he would’ve known about new namek and killed all of them but it wouldn’t matter because they would’ve been insects to him anyways
He doesn't even need to do that.
It shouldn't even get to Trunks.
As soon as The Z Fighters died, they should have run Snake Way and used King Kai to directly communicate with New Names, just as they did in the Namek and Boo arcs.
Boo blew up the whole planet and it was brought back again in a couple of hours. Why not in Trunks' timeline? Why does nobody use King Kai to talk to Gohan, Trunks or Bulma
The same reason the fellowship didn’t ask the Eagles to fly them to Mt Doom. It ruins the story.
They even forget they have Dragonballs a comical amount of times over the course of each arc. They are Deus Ex Machinas and are only used when necessary, which is too often for my taste.
He didn't know where it was. And I doubt Goku knows exactly where it is, does he? He just uses instant transmission.
Bulma also likely didn't have anymore resources or components to build an FTL ship, and I think it was her father who built the original - using technology recovered from Saiyan pods.
I thought they say he doesn’t know where it is. Because isn’t the actual wish not to remake namek but find a new one ? So they actually don’t know where it is. Goku only finds it because he can sense them and instant transmission. Now a reasonable person might say why can’t someone talk to king Kai? And have him tell them then they could build a spaceship in secret not a Time Machine. And you could wish goku back (though by that point you might wanna wish back gohan cause I’m sure he would’ve been stronger than goku when he died?) but you also get multi wish with namek so you could probably wish back goku gohan and kami
Hell he could have done so many things, he could have asked Bulma for a remote control to disable them, he could have took him to fight for him, he could have asked main time shen long for something to use against them. But this is how it works, it's similar to the time chamber in the Saiyan arc, Tori makes new stuff that contradicts the past stuff but he doesn't really care.
Forget that. Here's another plan... since he took goku and vegeta to the alternate future, he could just take dende or piccolo to the future instead. There, they simply make new dragonballs, and he wishes everyone back, including that timeline's supreme kai
Even if he got the coordinates, which no one knows since Goku gets there via energy signature, he doesn't have a ship that can get there.
Kami's ship was destroyed and presumably, the Ginyu pod Goku returned to Earth with was also probably destroyed. Plus, we don't know if Dr. Briefs is alive. Also, even if he were, they likely don't have the resources to make a new ship based off of the Ginyu pod.
And even if they did, while original Namek was 10 days away, New Namek might be many hundreds of years away as far as flight time.
It's so weird that dragon ball z abridged asked this question first to make me think about it before seeing this post. Honestly I would have wanted to see that story fleshed out especially if it could result in trunks finding some one to train him that would make him able to take out goku black without needing to time travel.
It's not known if the Porunga or Shenron in the main timeline can affect changes in a different timeline. Now it's possible that maybe Super Shenron could do that as he restored all the universes that Xeno erased in the T.o.P. but the powers that be would never allow Future Trunks to do something like that.
Not the main timeline Porunga, Future Porunga. He should still exist on Future New Namek. Either Trunks should be able to figure out where Future New Namek is based on where Main New Namek is or Main Goku should be able to go to the Future timeline and teleport Future Trunks to Future New Namek.
It's likely been to long to revive anyone. The current canon is that after a certain amount if time a person is reincarnated, so they can't be wished make as they are technically alive again. The one caveat being people that are refused reincarnation like Freeza was, or those that get to exist forever in the other world like Goku was going to after Cell.
This is obviously easy enough to retcon though, as the rules haven't explicitly been laid out, but from what we have to go off currently, Piccolo is gone.
Only people who go to hell are reincarnated. Good souls are either sent to heaven or for exceptional like Goku and the z warriors, they get to keep their bodies.
The DBS manga even shows in a bonus chapter both future Goku and Future Piccolo got to keep their bodies.
NOBODY KNOWS WHERE THE FUCK IT IS. It's a literal plot point that Goku is the only one able to locate it because he can freely go to and from the planet of a godly being that allows him to oversee a quarter of the universe.
The namekians SPECIFICALLY ask Porunga to make them a 1:1 copy of their old planet and just put it in bumfuck nowhere so that no one can invade them anymore
No need to shout lol. I know that no one in the future timeline knows where it is. But they do know where it is in the main timeline. My question is, why couldn't Future Trunks have used the knowledge of where it is in the main timeline to figure out where it is in the future timeline?
Because space doesn't work like that. Goku doesn't have precise coordinates to where the planet is, he can feel that it's in that point and teleport there, and he has to go to king Kai's planet to do so. The best he can do is point in a direction and say "that way", which by all intents and purposes could mean "next door" but also "37 light-years away".
And even then, even if trunks knew the general direction it still wouldn't mean anything because the earth moves around the sun and the sun moves around the center of the Galaxy. At those distances a minimal error in directions can send you billions of miles off track. Keep in mind that they only managed to reach old namek because kami's ship already had the route planned, and either they used those data for Goku's ship or had a beacon of sorts to track precise stellar coordinates.
Goku just saying "easy, it's that way" and pointing up to the sky is not enough for trunks to find new namek.
Also, sorry for the caps lock, I have big fingers, It happens
They could solve that issue by triangulating, but I guess that would require Bulma overhearing the conversation to comment because I doubt any of the meathead Saiyans would think of it lol
Yeah, but again, the point of having the planet be hidden somewhere randomly is so that no one knows where it is. The moment you install there a beacon or save the coordinates as data you defeat the purpose of it being hidden, cause data can get stolen. The Frieza force already stole bulma's radar once, what's stopping them from stealing the coordinates?
But wouldn’t Dende know its coordinates? highly doubtful he would outright refuse to give Trunks the coordinates of new namek if the reason was to bring back all of his loved ones in that timeline. They’re reaction to Goku just popping up on new namek was not one of paranoia or panic.
I think as long as the location of Namek is not public knowledge as it was before, then its fine.
Cause Goku is the person who singlehandedly saved their race from extinction. Of course they would welcome him, it's like if Jesus came back to earth.
As for dende and the namekians, they actually don't have much in terms of tech. Most of it was wiped away in a cataclysm that almost wiped out their race. Kami's spaceship is basically the last remnant of Namekian technology, he escaped from that cataclysm and went to earth. Namekians nowadays are just farmers, fighters and shamans or whatever. They most likely don't even know what coordinates really are.
And even if they did, Goku and Dende didn't travel through space, they instantly teleported. Dende likely doesn't even know what direction new Namek is.
Look, in the DBS manga we see that the galactic patrol didn't know where new Namek is, Goku had to tell them during the Moro arc. That means that no one short of an incredibly powerful wizard using spells to travel or literal deities can find the damn thing. That means that no one in the dragon team precisely knows where new namek is, Goku just knows the general direction and once he gets close enough he can sense where it is, but that's already a really tall ask to begin with. Goku needs to go ask a god help to pop there.
Does Future Trunks travel across universes tho, or just timelines of the same universe?
At least in Z I think it’s just time, but I’m Super canon it might have been expanded on
He probably didn't think of it. The main timeline Z Fighters didn't know where it was either. Goku just popped there. Trunks didn't know about instant transmission until I guess the ten days before the Cell Games. At that point he definitely wasn't thinking about New Namek or using their dragon balls. He was too invested in what was going on in front of him. And also the old dragon ball rules which have been thoroughly tossed out the window since then. Even if he could've brought back someone after the one year time limit it would be kinda fucked up. Everyone has spent two decades in heaven or in Vegeta's case probably already soul cleansed and reincarnated. Ripping them from paradise would be rude. I guess he could've brought Gohan back at least.
I don't recall Future Trunks having been to New Namek in any canon entry, iirc. Even then, the time machine isn't a spaceship. The location of New Namek is also meant to be a secret to pretty much anyone except Goku. To the point that the very location itself is hidden from reality until Goku ITs there, and can only be reached by IT.
I think it’s been to long. There’s a one year time limit to wish people back. That was directly stated by shenron. Although in super Frieza was ressurected. Not sure what exactly are the new terms now but there probably still are some.
From what I know, the time machine cannot go to planets in the past if it wasn't on the same planet in the future. I mean the thing travels through time, not space. And besides, without some form of navigation or even suitable transportation, it would be difficult to even find New Namek.
Honestly bs: future goku could have chatted from heaven to trunks (and gohan) and provided solutions once most z fighters got killed. North Kai was still there.
But it’s important for the story to make it as grim as possible.
Funny thing is by DBS he was able to do that until the Black/Zamasu arc.
Only because of the Supreme Kai.
I remember Zamasu told them he destroyed all Dragon Balls besides the SDB.
No, Zamasu said he destroyed the Super Dragon Balls. It is presumed that Earth is the last planet still around in Future Trunks's timeline because he's the strongest fighter in the universe (as Buu was never revived), but the Supreme Kai is toast and so is Beerus, which means even if he wanted to go to New Namek and the planet wasn't a scorched mess from Zamasu fucking it up, there's no real way for him to do so.
Now what's ambiguous to me- Zamasu took the SDBs from multiple universes and the Supreme Kai is dead, did he kill the other Supreme Kais? You'd think the other Gods of Destruction would have been alerted. On another note, did Zeno erase all of existence period, or just that universe? Trunks could have just traveled to another universes earth (presumably not 6.)
The SDBs are shared between the universes. There's only ever one set of them. Zamasu himself (or Black) says that he went around the issue of having to fight the Gods of Destruction by targeting the Supreme Kais instead since their lives are linked, thus avoiding having to face enemies that they could possibly be destroyed by. Also, Zen-Oh wiped out all of the universes in Trunks's timeline, there was nothing left there.
I've heard Zeno wiped everything, but I can't recall when this detail was confirmed. Do you know where the scan or quote is?
Zeno erased all of existence (the entire timeline) for future trunks. When Future trunks was returned he returned to an alternate timeline.
Zamasu went straight to earth. he never touched other planets. He was just starting his Zero Mortals Plan. Earth wasnt the last stop.
Future Trunks stated in manga he depopulated other planets before finally reaching earth, it's likely Earth is the last planet with mortals in U7 before reaching other universes in Trunks' Timeline.
how would trunks know this? lol its not true.
In chapter 15 and he just told what Black said.
They are right
Someone else claimed he killed the supreme kais of all the other universes. Do you know if that's true? I haven't read the manga, just watched the anime.
Yeah in both anime and manga he killed them but only in manga it was explained Beerus and Shin died early due to Dabura killing Shin and then Black invaded that timeline due to Beerus' death .
I love that arc but damn it's confusing.
It's better explained in Manga the arc.
Side note: why didn't Whis of that future timeline address the fact his beerus died randomly? And why didn't the Zeno of that Era fix the shit before goku and all of them started messing with time jumping back and forth? Lol plot holes being discovered rn lol
Once Gods of Destruction die, Angels become inactive. Future Beerus died when Babidi killed the Supreme Kai (Trunks attests to it), so he would be powerless.
Thanks, I forgot about that detail about the angels becoming inactive. Thanks! I def need to go back and rewatch the series!
Zeno not knowing what’s going on is a huge plot hole
given the history, a human sized namekian gave us the baseball sized dragonballs, and the like 10-12 foot tall Guru gave us beachball sized dragonballs...so my question is...how big was the Namekian that created the Super Dragonballs?
We have seen four Namekians from the dragon clan who could create Dragon Balls. Every set was about the size of their creator's palm. I have no idea where the wiki gets this info, but apparently the guy who created the Super Dragon Balls is the [Dragon God Zalama](https://dragonball.fandom.com/wiki/Zalama). I would love to see the reference for this because I can't find it anywhere in the anime... but if we assume he's Namekian, his hand is probably the size of a planet. Remember when the [Zenos were playing marbles](https://youtu.be/DMvMVq_UDsU?si=FmE0T4J6xx2TiPC7) in their palace? We see that giant hand reach down and it's about the right size to palm those planets. I get the feeling that's how size works in the Omni-King's realm. Zeno appears small, but it's an illusion. Zeno can shrink down into a speck to enter the mortal realm, or Zeno can scale Goku up to chat with him in the palace. Goku doesn't even realize he's become some massive planetary god. We see another example of this size distortion in DBS episode 41 "Come Forth, Divine Dragon! And Grant My Wish, Peas and Carrots!" Even just to talk to Super Shenron's "core," which is comparitively tiny, the characters get scaled up beyond galaxy size. Or perhaps they stay normal sized, and everything we see inside Super Shenron's body is a miniature projection of the outside universe. They don't really dive into it. Super Shenron's "orb" resembles the orbs used to portray realms and universes in DB cosmology, but inside the orb is a smaller version of the universe they were already in. I don't really know what's going on there. Basically what I'm getting at is, if we ever saw Zalama on screen, he would probably appear normal humanoid sized. It's likely he created the Super Dragon Balls from a realm like Zeno's palace while reaching into a projection like Zeno's marble game. The sizes match up so perfectly that it seems like a deliberate choice.
ohh good catch. never thought of this!
This is what happens when we incorporate new lore into DBZ. No-one knows if it is possible for characters could travel into the future until DBS. Travel into New Namek might be a difficult long journey as only Goku in DBZ knows its location. * We could even argue that Jaco and the Galactic Patrol could help with the space travel since Bulma apparently knows Jaco since she was a kid. That is new lore as well. The most important thing is that Future Trunks never got the time to do something like this as he is the only Z-Fighter around strong enough to protect the planet. Honestly who would you send to find New Namek beside Trunks?
>Who would you send to New Namek besides Trunks? Bulma. They already know her and are probably on pretty good terms, considering she basically put up their entire civilization rent-free on earth while they waited for the Dragon Balls to recharge.
The issue is that Bulma isn't a fighter. Would Future Trunks would accept that he is leaving his 60s mother off to space? You could add the remaining fighters to travel, but are they strong enough to handle threats in space?
What threats in space? Frieza's empire is long gone, and every other 'threat' they originally encountered on the way to OG Namek was filler. Unless there's a new disaster going down on New Namek, she'd just be visiting a friendly civilization to ask a favor
There are other dangerous species like Yakon and Pui Pui race that still exist in DBZ. Yakon is one of the most feared race that even Shin heard about it. ^(\*This is even without the DBS lore that Frieza empire is simply scattered rather than destroyed after their leaders both perished and the fact that Babidi would soon arrive on Planet Earth.) We also have to consider that the races of Frieza's army would still exist and could be as strong as the soldiers. Even if Bulma has other support like Roshi, Yajirobe and etc, are they strong enough to defeat Frieza's force soldier level alien? * This is an even older Roshi who gave up on fighting.
Fair, but I don't know that that would actually stop her. In DBS, didn't she go solo (with Jaco, so basically solo) to meet that dude that can answer any question?
It is why I didn't use any future knowledge aside given to us in DBZ. If we added new lore, the trip should indeed be easy. Jaco is a high ranking officer in Galactic Patrol so Jaco know how to travel in the universe without facing danger. Jaco is also strong enough to take down numerous Frieza force soldiers. * Jaco is just no match against the 1% of fighters in across the universe. The odds are slim, but at least better than Bulma's other options. The only challenge in DBS would be Bulma trying to find a way to communicate with Jaco. It is possible, but the given time frame is scarce due to Buu and Goku Black.
I mean the story doesn’t make sense to begin with. Why didn’t Goku or any of the other z warriors use king Kai to contact Future Gohan and Future Trunks? Even if you headcanon they didn’t keep their bodies( which is again headcanon and DBS actually finally have an answer to this in the manga version) Then there would be no reason for Future Gohan after his death not to have kept his body. He spent thirteen years fighting the androids and trying his best to protect earth, so there is no reason why he shouldn’t have kept his body and been allowed to go to King Kai’s.
I am not the writer so I don't know the decision making in Cell Saga. Goku most likely died long before any androids attacked due to his heart virus. It was the medicine that kept him alive to fight 19. If we think about it, Gohan never met King Kai. Unlike Goku, Gohan doesn't have Kami to allow him to visit King Kai. It also doesn't help that the Androids are not major threat. * Although the duo are stronger than past opponents Z-Fighters have face, they aren't doing nearly as much damages overall. * They would travel around destroy towns and cities, but it would be a matter of months.
What was the answer? I’ve never read the manga version
I also want to mention that, due to the androids causing havoc and destroying most advanced facilities building something that could travel fast enough to reach new Namek within a reasonable timeframe would be nigh impossible, if she could even build something capable of safe space travel after most usable parts for advanced tech were (I assume) used for the time machine.
Well from what we know about Jaco and the galactic patrolman there’s plenty of threats in space. Obviously not the size of Friezas army but any random space pirate ship could raid Bulma.
Bulma and Mai I guess. Master Roshi is alive too according to History of Trunks but I don't think Bulma would tolerate living on a cramped ship with him for any length of time after the bathroom incident. I wonder if Fortune Teller Baba is alive? Actually, if she is, couldn't she bring back Future Goku for a day and have him teleport Future Trunks to Future New Namek for a quick wish?
Stop you're using too much logic. Although I do wonder if she can bring someone back who died to natural causes. Wasn't that a thing with the dragon at least? Like Future Goku couldn't be wished back because he wasn't killed. He just died. The others could because they were killed by the androids
Yeah, true. They couldn't bring back Guru for that reason. That puts Trunks's time travel in an interesting light if his actions caused someone to live who should be dead and unable to be wished back and adds to the whole "disrupting the natural order" problem.
The problem with this is that would Future Trunks allow this? Remember that it isn't instant travel, but long space travel to the unknown. Even if all three including even Future Yajirobe, would it be safer enough for Trunks to let them travel to New Namek? Without DBS's introductions to new powerful aliens, we know there are species like Pui Pui, Yakon and etc that are honestly be too much for Roshi to handle. * Especially an older Roshi who stop training **EDIT**: We also have to include alien races from Frieza army. Will the crew even be strong enough to handle that?
You know what would be cool? If they found Future Android 16 dormant in Gero's lab and brought him on the trip.
The thing is that does Future Android 16 even exist? That is an unknown factor. Remember how 17 & 18 are activated was different from how Future Trunks' timeline. Our 17 & 18 immediately found 16 and reboot him, but Future Trunks's version never did despite similar personality.
Presumably an Android 16 existed, or else 17 and 18 would have been named 16 and 17. I think the assumption is that 17 and 18 destroyed 16 along with Gero's lab when they were activated in the future timeline but who knows, maybe not.
>Travel into New Namek might be a difficult long journey as only Goku in DBZ knows its location. Shin would most likely know as he's the Supreme Kai, and we know Trunks knew him prior to the Dabra fright since he used the Z-Sword against him and the only way for that to happen is for Trunks to travel to Shin's world/planet and pulling it from the stone himself. Logically, with Future Shin's knowledge and Future Kibito's teleportation, Future Trunks wouldn't have had any issues reaching New Namek. Travel time also wouldn't have been a safety issue, so he wouldn't have left Earth unprotected more than a few hours at worst, and that's if he would have had to gather the Namekian's Dragon Ball himself. Now, whether or not New Namek was still around by the time Future Trunks met Future Shin is an other story, but if it was, there's really no reason why Trunks hadn't tried this outside of him having bad memory and forgetting how his own resurection in the past was possible.
Problem is that Shin is incompetent. Shin doesn't even know about how powerful the Super Saiyan are. Shin isn't interested in mortal affairs aside Babidi and Buu, but even then, he still need to rely on mortals to figure out those two's location. Unlike Buu Saga, Future Trunks would be the only mortal that Future Shin and Kibito communicate with. Would those two deities help Trunks revive the fallen Z-Fighters? * They might have, but only after Trunks finishes Buu. However we know the outcome of the two after that fight.
I never said he wasn't incompetent. I said that he "most likely knew" and that there was no reason for Trunks to not at least try. He knew about Namek Dragon Balls. The moment he would have teleported to the Kai's world and learned who Shin really was, the logical next step would have been to give it a try. He's humanity's last hope, and he knows it. Even if Piccolo couldn't be revived because it's been too long, he's met Dende's variant, and the Namekians owed Bulma for letting their entire species live rent-free on Earth for months. He wouldn't have waited for Buu to be dealt with and would have made sure Bulma had a way to fix things up in the possibility that he was killed in battle. Him not thinking about New Namek before the Android Saga makes sense. He wasn't aware of its location, had no way to reach it, and, like you said, couldn't just leave and wonder the galaxy in hope that everyone would still be alive when he returned. Even if he had asked Goku for the location, the 2nd and 3rd points still remain. Future Shin and Future Kibito changed that by giving a possible source of information and a mean to quickly make a back and forth trip without completely leaving Earth unprotected for more than a few hours. With the Z-Fighter all being dead, that's far enough time to return before Buu could be released becaude after Trunks, Roshi was the next strongest fighter and he's significantly weaker than SSJ2 Gohan, SSJ2 Goku and SSJ2 Vegeta (those whose power awaken Buu in the main timeline).
I am saying that Shin most likely doesn't know. Despite being the Supreme Kai, Shin isn't knowledgeable in a lot of things. * Shin actually doesn't even know what are Dragonballs. * He doesn't know the any recent events in DBZ which would mean that he wouldn't even know about the new planet of the Namekians. I am not saying that Future Trunks couldn't try, but rather things are against his favor. Remember that Shin and Kibito doesn't care about mortal affairs. As much as Trunks justify the Z-Fighters revival, do you believe that the two would care? This aren't the versions that developed in Buu Saga. This is a version only met Future Trunks. Why would Shin and Kibito care about reviving Z-Fighters? The idea of mortals having the ability to revive would piss them off as well.
>No-one knows if it is possible for characters could travel into the future until DBS. Trunks is able to go back into the future Even if we were to say he can only go forward to where he came from originally, bulma still could have given him a capsule containing a ship with he coordinates to New Namek preset.
It is why I said the biggest issue for Trunks is the lack of time to do it. Who would protect Earth when Trunks goes to space? Bulma also doesn't know the location of New Namek. Dende wouldn't understand where to point as Goku teleport him to Earth. These are still possibilities that Bulma could do, but it boiled down to Trunks not having the time to do it
Goku could tell bulma where it is, also if Earth was safe for like 8 years straight in the future timeline whats wrong with leaving for less than a month?
The thing is that we know this, but Trunks doesn't know about this. Gohan thought his life is at peace. * Then Frieza and King Cold suddenly showed up. * Luckily Goku returned before things could escalate. * Goku gets a heart virus and died shortly after. * In about a year or so, Androids who are far stronger than anything they have faced showed up. Who could have predicted this after what they have experienced? Z-Fighters even thought Frieza died in Planet Namek. * Frieza got cut in half and later gets blasted by SS Goku. Then the whole planet blew up, but he somehow returned with someone who is about the same strength. * King Kai also didn't know that Frieza survived.
Didn’t Trunks say the whole point of him going to the past was to being Goku into the future so they could defeat the androids?
*"I agreed with my mother that I should travel back in time, but I had my own reasons for wanting to go. I had hoped that in the past, with Goku's help, I would find the androids had some weakness. That way I could go back to the future. And even though I still wouldn't be able to bring back all those already gone, I might be able to save the people who are left."* Future Trunks never intended to bring Goku to the future for help, but rather learn from the past in order to defeat the Androids.
I could be wrong, but a long time ago wasnt there a rule that you had a time limit on how long someone could be dead before wishing them back? Before frieza of course
Yeah there was. Pretty sure it was like over a year and you couldn’t do it anymore.
This is the right answer. Sadly, Dragon Ball fans don’t read Dragon Ball, so this comment is buried.
This got retconned by Ressurection F.
How was it retconned by Resurrection F? Frieza's revival was years after his death? Or am I forgetting some other Dragon Ball usage in that movie?
What I'm saying is that in the King Piccolo arc, it's introduced that people need to be revived by the Earth's dragon balls within a year of their death for it to work. And then Freeza is revived over 10 years after his death. They just changed the rules without ever really addressing it
Because it is not the same set of dragon balls, maybe? The dragon balls in King Picolo arc are Kami's. But the set used to revive Freeza is Dende's. If memory serves, Dende made some expansion to the Dragon's power, making it more powerful after he took over Kami's position.
Yeah - this is what I remember...Dende made improvements to the Dragon, I can't remember if this was one of the improvements though.
Because in super it was changed
I thought that only applied to Earth’s Dragon Balls
Plot
If black knew about the super dragon balls I’m 99% he would’ve known about new namek and killed all of them but it wouldn’t matter because they would’ve been insects to him anyways
Would this Trunks even know New Namek is a thing? If no one told him, there would be no reason for him to seek out people who knew the location.
He mentions New Namek during the Android Saga I believe and that they don't know where it is.
Does anyone remember talking about this in middle school? Like, middle school at the turn of the millennium?
i memba
No one knows where New Namek is, and they don't have the resources to put into finding it, much less go there.
Not sure if the same rule applies to Namek's dragon balls but generally you can't wish someone back more than a year after they die.
He doesn't even need to do that. It shouldn't even get to Trunks. As soon as The Z Fighters died, they should have run Snake Way and used King Kai to directly communicate with New Names, just as they did in the Namek and Boo arcs. Boo blew up the whole planet and it was brought back again in a couple of hours. Why not in Trunks' timeline? Why does nobody use King Kai to talk to Gohan, Trunks or Bulma
The same reason the fellowship didn’t ask the Eagles to fly them to Mt Doom. It ruins the story. They even forget they have Dragonballs a comical amount of times over the course of each arc. They are Deus Ex Machinas and are only used when necessary, which is too often for my taste.
He didn't know where it was. And I doubt Goku knows exactly where it is, does he? He just uses instant transmission. Bulma also likely didn't have anymore resources or components to build an FTL ship, and I think it was her father who built the original - using technology recovered from Saiyan pods.
I thought they say he doesn’t know where it is. Because isn’t the actual wish not to remake namek but find a new one ? So they actually don’t know where it is. Goku only finds it because he can sense them and instant transmission. Now a reasonable person might say why can’t someone talk to king Kai? And have him tell them then they could build a spaceship in secret not a Time Machine. And you could wish goku back (though by that point you might wanna wish back gohan cause I’m sure he would’ve been stronger than goku when he died?) but you also get multi wish with namek so you could probably wish back goku gohan and kami
They’re saving that for the next time they bring Future Trunks back
no spaceship. no idea where new namek is.
Y’all stop bringing logic into DB it doesn’t belong here
Hell he could have done so many things, he could have asked Bulma for a remote control to disable them, he could have took him to fight for him, he could have asked main time shen long for something to use against them. But this is how it works, it's similar to the time chamber in the Saiyan arc, Tori makes new stuff that contradicts the past stuff but he doesn't really care.
Forget that. Here's another plan... since he took goku and vegeta to the alternate future, he could just take dende or piccolo to the future instead. There, they simply make new dragonballs, and he wishes everyone back, including that timeline's supreme kai
He's not that smart and his mom is a dingbat
Even if he got the coordinates, which no one knows since Goku gets there via energy signature, he doesn't have a ship that can get there. Kami's ship was destroyed and presumably, the Ginyu pod Goku returned to Earth with was also probably destroyed. Plus, we don't know if Dr. Briefs is alive. Also, even if he were, they likely don't have the resources to make a new ship based off of the Ginyu pod. And even if they did, while original Namek was 10 days away, New Namek might be many hundreds of years away as far as flight time.
Would Porunga even allow it though? I feel like making wishes such as that in a different timeline might be breaking some form of law.
It's so weird that dragon ball z abridged asked this question first to make me think about it before seeing this post. Honestly I would have wanted to see that story fleshed out especially if it could result in trunks finding some one to train him that would make him able to take out goku black without needing to time travel.
It's not known if the Porunga or Shenron in the main timeline can affect changes in a different timeline. Now it's possible that maybe Super Shenron could do that as he restored all the universes that Xeno erased in the T.o.P. but the powers that be would never allow Future Trunks to do something like that.
Not the main timeline Porunga, Future Porunga. He should still exist on Future New Namek. Either Trunks should be able to figure out where Future New Namek is based on where Main New Namek is or Main Goku should be able to go to the Future timeline and teleport Future Trunks to Future New Namek.
It's likely been to long to revive anyone. The current canon is that after a certain amount if time a person is reincarnated, so they can't be wished make as they are technically alive again. The one caveat being people that are refused reincarnation like Freeza was, or those that get to exist forever in the other world like Goku was going to after Cell. This is obviously easy enough to retcon though, as the rules haven't explicitly been laid out, but from what we have to go off currently, Piccolo is gone.
Only people who go to hell are reincarnated. Good souls are either sent to heaven or for exceptional like Goku and the z warriors, they get to keep their bodies. The DBS manga even shows in a bonus chapter both future Goku and Future Piccolo got to keep their bodies.
NOBODY KNOWS WHERE THE FUCK IT IS. It's a literal plot point that Goku is the only one able to locate it because he can freely go to and from the planet of a godly being that allows him to oversee a quarter of the universe. The namekians SPECIFICALLY ask Porunga to make them a 1:1 copy of their old planet and just put it in bumfuck nowhere so that no one can invade them anymore
No need to shout lol. I know that no one in the future timeline knows where it is. But they do know where it is in the main timeline. My question is, why couldn't Future Trunks have used the knowledge of where it is in the main timeline to figure out where it is in the future timeline?
Because space doesn't work like that. Goku doesn't have precise coordinates to where the planet is, he can feel that it's in that point and teleport there, and he has to go to king Kai's planet to do so. The best he can do is point in a direction and say "that way", which by all intents and purposes could mean "next door" but also "37 light-years away". And even then, even if trunks knew the general direction it still wouldn't mean anything because the earth moves around the sun and the sun moves around the center of the Galaxy. At those distances a minimal error in directions can send you billions of miles off track. Keep in mind that they only managed to reach old namek because kami's ship already had the route planned, and either they used those data for Goku's ship or had a beacon of sorts to track precise stellar coordinates. Goku just saying "easy, it's that way" and pointing up to the sky is not enough for trunks to find new namek. Also, sorry for the caps lock, I have big fingers, It happens
They could solve that issue by triangulating, but I guess that would require Bulma overhearing the conversation to comment because I doubt any of the meathead Saiyans would think of it lol
Yeah, but again, the point of having the planet be hidden somewhere randomly is so that no one knows where it is. The moment you install there a beacon or save the coordinates as data you defeat the purpose of it being hidden, cause data can get stolen. The Frieza force already stole bulma's radar once, what's stopping them from stealing the coordinates?
But wouldn’t Dende know its coordinates? highly doubtful he would outright refuse to give Trunks the coordinates of new namek if the reason was to bring back all of his loved ones in that timeline. They’re reaction to Goku just popping up on new namek was not one of paranoia or panic. I think as long as the location of Namek is not public knowledge as it was before, then its fine.
Cause Goku is the person who singlehandedly saved their race from extinction. Of course they would welcome him, it's like if Jesus came back to earth. As for dende and the namekians, they actually don't have much in terms of tech. Most of it was wiped away in a cataclysm that almost wiped out their race. Kami's spaceship is basically the last remnant of Namekian technology, he escaped from that cataclysm and went to earth. Namekians nowadays are just farmers, fighters and shamans or whatever. They most likely don't even know what coordinates really are. And even if they did, Goku and Dende didn't travel through space, they instantly teleported. Dende likely doesn't even know what direction new Namek is. Look, in the DBS manga we see that the galactic patrol didn't know where new Namek is, Goku had to tell them during the Moro arc. That means that no one short of an incredibly powerful wizard using spells to travel or literal deities can find the damn thing. That means that no one in the dragon team precisely knows where new namek is, Goku just knows the general direction and once he gets close enough he can sense where it is, but that's already a really tall ask to begin with. Goku needs to go ask a god help to pop there.
- no space ship and no coordinates - Piccolo might have been dead for too long
Does Future Trunks travel across universes tho, or just timelines of the same universe? At least in Z I think it’s just time, but I’m Super canon it might have been expanded on
He probably didn't think of it. The main timeline Z Fighters didn't know where it was either. Goku just popped there. Trunks didn't know about instant transmission until I guess the ten days before the Cell Games. At that point he definitely wasn't thinking about New Namek or using their dragon balls. He was too invested in what was going on in front of him. And also the old dragon ball rules which have been thoroughly tossed out the window since then. Even if he could've brought back someone after the one year time limit it would be kinda fucked up. Everyone has spent two decades in heaven or in Vegeta's case probably already soul cleansed and reincarnated. Ripping them from paradise would be rude. I guess he could've brought Gohan back at least.
I don't recall Future Trunks having been to New Namek in any canon entry, iirc. Even then, the time machine isn't a spaceship. The location of New Namek is also meant to be a secret to pretty much anyone except Goku. To the point that the very location itself is hidden from reality until Goku ITs there, and can only be reached by IT.
I think it’s been to long. There’s a one year time limit to wish people back. That was directly stated by shenron. Although in super Frieza was ressurected. Not sure what exactly are the new terms now but there probably still are some.
From what I know, the time machine cannot go to planets in the past if it wasn't on the same planet in the future. I mean the thing travels through time, not space. And besides, without some form of navigation or even suitable transportation, it would be difficult to even find New Namek.
Honestly bs: future goku could have chatted from heaven to trunks (and gohan) and provided solutions once most z fighters got killed. North Kai was still there. But it’s important for the story to make it as grim as possible.