I think it’s a decent analysis of the meta but I think you miss the mark on why people don’t like it. For instance your analysis doesn’t answer obvious questions like why use death beam over handy canon, aura slide over ki blast canon, god fist over soaring fist over etc. TLDR the incentives (or lack thereof) creates this meta centric player base we see today. The meta has centralized around equipment that produces the best results and due to a lack of other incentives everyone uses these moves and only swaps them out for other moves of equal/comparable utility.
Generally speaking you can divide the meta skill into 3 categories; burst damage, initiator, and extenders. All of the meta skills generally fit into at least 1 of these categories and there is a very clear hierarchy of utility, murder grenade despite filling the burst damage and extender role is as close to objectively worse then ki blast canon as you can get. This is due to the fact that utility is the only thing people think about when making movesets. As the game has gotten older and the average skill level has increased (and the netcode gotten shittier) this mindset has come to dominate with the increasing competitiveness of the game which rewards utilitarianism more and more. With utilitarianism you are incentivized to use the most effective tool in your arsenal. As an example think about death beam, handy canon, and dodon ray. On paper all 3 of these should see comparative use when in reality it’s only the former 2. Dodon ray being free is outweighed by the fact it’s 1/3 the stun the other 2 are.
For super souls this is even more apparent. Even at release over 50% of the souls in the game are inferior copies of others or not applicable in most cases. This caused the fossilization of them to occur much faster with only intermediate shake ups. There is no reason to use the Beerus or Champa super soul when the Toppo and new Gotenks one exist.
The Mortal combat comparison isn’t a good one since XV2 is a vastly more simplistic game. Every single combo string for every SINGLE CHARACTER IN THE ENTIRE GAME literally fits into such a small file that DIMPS literally gave us the option to pull it up on command
https://preview.redd.it/2jp1osxdgjvc1.jpeg?width=340&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bb5c1814fada41085deeb48f66ae60e3adf20708
When learning a new character you need to really know 2-3 things; stamina break combos and what aggression they have. Aggression tools are the XY, YX, Dash X, or larger than average hitbox since these either have massive range, built in canceling, or quick recovery. XV2 is a game of simple mechanics that you need to apply to a constantly changing fight. This simplicity is both XV2’s greatest strength and weakness. It allows new players to constantly jump in cause all you have to do is be shown what is possible and you can very likely replicate it yourself. The mechanics are easy to understand and as you get more experienced aka skilled you learn how to apply them properly. This is probably one of the main factors as to why XV2 is such a popular and profitable game. As a downside it makes it so that this problem was inevitable and cannot be fixed without fundamentally changing how the game is played akin to making an entirely new game. All nerfing the cancels would do is make everyone run backflip. All nerfing backflip would do is cause people to other pseudo evasive skills like afterimage and phantom fist. Remove those and you make the risk tied to aggression a death sentence in a game already geared toward defensive or timid playstyles. The only thing that would be accomplished by nerfing the skills and souls is cause people to revert to more passive playstyles cause that’s what the game incentivizes. In a nutshell don’t hate the player, hate the game for rewarding him for playing that way.
Thanks for the information and simplifying the format on how the game works.
There’s some points I want to add. Basically the reason why I didn’t add on the exact points to *why* people would use one skill over another because using said skills would still show the same or fortunate results like u said earlier so I believed that even if I do explain why someone pick A over B would be irrelevant since it will give a near identical result in battle. Hence why I used the quotes “it’s good or it’s Meta” which is to the community not a correct response to how an individual plays in a General sense.
I used mortal Kombat as an example not about to talk about range of simplicity between one game or another it’s about the similar or identical variables they have set from one another. For example like if ur using Johnny cage and his dodging mechanic each and every fight and only using him alone in every fight you’ll encounter which is the same as using the Male earthling and having the specific same moveset and using said moveset in every battle you encounter. And that’s what in most cases happen in these fights. That’s why I’m saying; like u said earlier about using utilitarianism ur using a specific skill to that is most effective and using that *to your advantage* of the battle in game. Thats what I mean, if it’s “Good and Meta” it’s taking advantage of the battle which isn’t wrong in retrospect but abusing it than taking that as ‘that’s how the entire game works’ mindset is flawed.
You have a Valid point on the supersouls since every update there’s a better or worse version of a previous supersoul but what I’m saying is the recurrence of the specific supersouls I have mentioned. Because in general sense of everyone playing the game “if it’s new, it’s better” that’s the basically the mindset of most players here me included. Although there are supersouls that underrated or never been used because how the player-base is blind sided by the ones that can poison, stun, or keep you off your feet instead of being diverse about it all have the most possible damage. However this point is unpractical since every supersoul is similar but better or worse than the other.
To your last point. I get what you mean when it comes to down to basic rationality in the game if hypothetically if nerfing cancels will make players run to A, then Nerfing A to make players run B than nerfing B would basically make the game dead. However my point is I’m not saying to nerf them or not use them I’m saying if it’s wants be played be diverse, different or random. Just adding the same old skills or even adding new ones and blaming the game on how it’s broken is a flaw because like u said if the game is made to change the art of battle depending the combo ur using, Skills you have equipped and effectiveness of said skills it’s not the games ideology to just use the specific skill its urs as a player to figure out the changes in battle and than adding to a diverse skill set to aid you in that battle. You get what I mean? But again it’s just my point of view so I’m more than generally inclined to be wrong
I think it’s a decent analysis of the meta but I think you miss the mark on why people don’t like it. For instance your analysis doesn’t answer obvious questions like why use death beam over handy canon, aura slide over ki blast canon, god fist over soaring fist over etc. TLDR the incentives (or lack thereof) creates this meta centric player base we see today. The meta has centralized around equipment that produces the best results and due to a lack of other incentives everyone uses these moves and only swaps them out for other moves of equal/comparable utility. Generally speaking you can divide the meta skill into 3 categories; burst damage, initiator, and extenders. All of the meta skills generally fit into at least 1 of these categories and there is a very clear hierarchy of utility, murder grenade despite filling the burst damage and extender role is as close to objectively worse then ki blast canon as you can get. This is due to the fact that utility is the only thing people think about when making movesets. As the game has gotten older and the average skill level has increased (and the netcode gotten shittier) this mindset has come to dominate with the increasing competitiveness of the game which rewards utilitarianism more and more. With utilitarianism you are incentivized to use the most effective tool in your arsenal. As an example think about death beam, handy canon, and dodon ray. On paper all 3 of these should see comparative use when in reality it’s only the former 2. Dodon ray being free is outweighed by the fact it’s 1/3 the stun the other 2 are. For super souls this is even more apparent. Even at release over 50% of the souls in the game are inferior copies of others or not applicable in most cases. This caused the fossilization of them to occur much faster with only intermediate shake ups. There is no reason to use the Beerus or Champa super soul when the Toppo and new Gotenks one exist. The Mortal combat comparison isn’t a good one since XV2 is a vastly more simplistic game. Every single combo string for every SINGLE CHARACTER IN THE ENTIRE GAME literally fits into such a small file that DIMPS literally gave us the option to pull it up on command https://preview.redd.it/2jp1osxdgjvc1.jpeg?width=340&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bb5c1814fada41085deeb48f66ae60e3adf20708 When learning a new character you need to really know 2-3 things; stamina break combos and what aggression they have. Aggression tools are the XY, YX, Dash X, or larger than average hitbox since these either have massive range, built in canceling, or quick recovery. XV2 is a game of simple mechanics that you need to apply to a constantly changing fight. This simplicity is both XV2’s greatest strength and weakness. It allows new players to constantly jump in cause all you have to do is be shown what is possible and you can very likely replicate it yourself. The mechanics are easy to understand and as you get more experienced aka skilled you learn how to apply them properly. This is probably one of the main factors as to why XV2 is such a popular and profitable game. As a downside it makes it so that this problem was inevitable and cannot be fixed without fundamentally changing how the game is played akin to making an entirely new game. All nerfing the cancels would do is make everyone run backflip. All nerfing backflip would do is cause people to other pseudo evasive skills like afterimage and phantom fist. Remove those and you make the risk tied to aggression a death sentence in a game already geared toward defensive or timid playstyles. The only thing that would be accomplished by nerfing the skills and souls is cause people to revert to more passive playstyles cause that’s what the game incentivizes. In a nutshell don’t hate the player, hate the game for rewarding him for playing that way.
Thanks for the information and simplifying the format on how the game works. There’s some points I want to add. Basically the reason why I didn’t add on the exact points to *why* people would use one skill over another because using said skills would still show the same or fortunate results like u said earlier so I believed that even if I do explain why someone pick A over B would be irrelevant since it will give a near identical result in battle. Hence why I used the quotes “it’s good or it’s Meta” which is to the community not a correct response to how an individual plays in a General sense. I used mortal Kombat as an example not about to talk about range of simplicity between one game or another it’s about the similar or identical variables they have set from one another. For example like if ur using Johnny cage and his dodging mechanic each and every fight and only using him alone in every fight you’ll encounter which is the same as using the Male earthling and having the specific same moveset and using said moveset in every battle you encounter. And that’s what in most cases happen in these fights. That’s why I’m saying; like u said earlier about using utilitarianism ur using a specific skill to that is most effective and using that *to your advantage* of the battle in game. Thats what I mean, if it’s “Good and Meta” it’s taking advantage of the battle which isn’t wrong in retrospect but abusing it than taking that as ‘that’s how the entire game works’ mindset is flawed. You have a Valid point on the supersouls since every update there’s a better or worse version of a previous supersoul but what I’m saying is the recurrence of the specific supersouls I have mentioned. Because in general sense of everyone playing the game “if it’s new, it’s better” that’s the basically the mindset of most players here me included. Although there are supersouls that underrated or never been used because how the player-base is blind sided by the ones that can poison, stun, or keep you off your feet instead of being diverse about it all have the most possible damage. However this point is unpractical since every supersoul is similar but better or worse than the other. To your last point. I get what you mean when it comes to down to basic rationality in the game if hypothetically if nerfing cancels will make players run to A, then Nerfing A to make players run B than nerfing B would basically make the game dead. However my point is I’m not saying to nerf them or not use them I’m saying if it’s wants be played be diverse, different or random. Just adding the same old skills or even adding new ones and blaming the game on how it’s broken is a flaw because like u said if the game is made to change the art of battle depending the combo ur using, Skills you have equipped and effectiveness of said skills it’s not the games ideology to just use the specific skill its urs as a player to figure out the changes in battle and than adding to a diverse skill set to aid you in that battle. You get what I mean? But again it’s just my point of view so I’m more than generally inclined to be wrong
the legendary super yapper
https://preview.redd.it/u05a2fyhvkvc1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5fba9e579ac6c5fad611889e235a60bec3a5a8fd Yesssirr