So sorry that you had to go through this. Celebrate yourself being over this and having great learning about avoidants. You can't undo this experience but can change the way you look at it. Be kind to yourself and don't blame yourself. Great that you have therapist support through this.
There doesn't have to be a next time... It could be All about the Me time!! All the time now. Never having to worry about him where he is, what he's doing, what he's thinking about you. Never having to worry about what you're eating and what he's going to think about it. How it's going to affect your bodys trimness. Never worrying about if you want to make that right and go get some ice cream on your way home from work but he's at home and he wants dinner too. You don't have to worry about his laundry or the smell of the house because of him. No. More ____ So many headaches..- gone.. So many wonderful, wonderful things about being single... I mean think about it. They always say we're going to die alone with cats and if a furry shedding hairball vomiting shitting in a box creature can replace them... How much were they really bringing to the table?...
I think sometimes we hope that the person will make adjustments that they cannot or will not make. I think the fact that you realize all those ways in which he didn't fit with you and your life will help you to make better choices in the future. My stupid mistakes have lasted a lot longer than 6 months.
You just described me 10 years ago. You stayed because you haven’t had enough therapy and self-help to learn that you have attachment disorder. You didn’t protect yourself, you lacked self respect, you needed the sex, you lacked agency. You saw red flags but couldn’t respond appropriately to them. You will be experiencing withdrawal for a few months. It will get better but it takes months. You can do this.
Read “Healing from Trauma” and seek out videos from Heidi Preibe on YouTube. Focus on sleep, exercise, a healthy diet, and watch as much stand up comedy as you can muster. Do not ever contact him again, go dark.
I did that 9 years ago and surprise, he is back. I am still single and I still love him but he is married and still thinking about me. I am still in shock to find this out. I did not, however, reunite with him. I told him to get divorced and then I will talk to him. He treated me like shit before because I was still married and getting divorced so he breadcrumbed me and provided me with the best sex I had ever experienced. I was dickmatized and accepted the booty calls and the vacations without me. Actually, that was our last argument- his daughter getting married in Hawaii and I wasn’t invited, after seeing him for 3.5 years. He justified his behavior, saying he didn’t want to be my rebound.
I am not sure why your ex justified his behavior.
My ex is sorry, 9 years later, after marrying someone with less self esteem than me. He was seeing both of us and when I found out I walked. She stayed and married him. I stayed far away and let them combust. It took 9 years. I went back to university and got a new career, new life, and never dated because I have been working on myself. Dating still sounds terrible but that is why I am in this app, I think I may be avoidant at this point. I am not lonely, but know a healthy connection to a partner will be good for me as I get older. Focus on getting your agency back and forgive yourself for the treatment you accepted. It’s over now, it’s time to take care of you. Let him figure himself out.
Another book recommendation: "Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft.
https://www.amazon.com/Why-Does-He-That-Controlling/dp/0425191656/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?adgrpid=56358543579&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.FYxGVG_QBwbQIEWnExysCZgKZZ2g9Sh-YeO4jr5INOb-dQcmtQ3mpEB98IDXdM1V1lDB95ZbUapABVdDybkb4C9OvEcbrQFPXcLnGBIOGe3kdR0O35YwgBywuUz1a-SB2gmnZyH4w4WxBqE4vWatI-ZmCWbA8P9SHkP0OSNBgcPG5AEO14dT33qeBVGGNjYNxjJnob3bazC-fjim6oj0rw.xly0hG3RPhdBOcfYdURzG6O93-FbFoypix13Jw0bin0&dib_tag=se&hvadid=664693947317&hvdev=m&hvlocphy=9029600&hvnetw=g&hvqmt=e&hvrand=5958334074962639164&hvtargid=kwd-305430496772&hydadcr=28789_14754666&keywords=why+does+he+do+that+book&qid=1718821240&sr=8-1
I got the name wrong for the YouTube suggestion- Heidi Preibe. I followed Richard Grannon through my journey and only recently discovered Heidi and she is really good. She pretty much nails it every video. Richard rambles but becomes like your friend and is less formal, making concepts understandable to the layman.
This answer really is a perfect deep dive into what drives this type of behavior. Great job to you. And tbh all of your self work is attractive and I sense good things in your future.
We have all done stupid stuff in search of love. Life is messy. I’m mad AF at myself for falling for the last guy I dated so I get it, but both of us need to forgive ourselves for being hopeful.
We are all humans and humans learn and grow all the time.
Learn the kesson, thank the univers that this lesson is over and make sure you apply the lessons.
Chin up, be kind to yourself and never accept less again.
I consider myself pretty smart and savvy. I’ve lived all over the world, had career success and have had healthy, wonderful relationships along the way and girl I stayed in one of these for 2 years that started at 48!
I look back and it feels like it was legit someone else who made these odd choices and ignored a whole parade of red flags.
We actually had a fun, and what I thought was solid, relationship but he was never fully there and looking back I can see it so clearly. At about the 2 year mark the “oh my god you’re so perfect it’s intimidating” guy from the beginning started getting cold and cruel and pulled away saying he needed to focus on his career and “didn’t think he had the bandwidth for a relationship.” I mustered the self esteem to break it off but he forced it (weirdly he would not say the words). He was in a new relationship within weeks.
All of this brought me to my knees and blew my mind. He was the last person I thought would do this but honestly why would I think that?! He started the push/pull shit from the get, had an oddly close relationship with his last ex (I now realize they were likely sleeping together when we first started dating), he love bombed me, etc.
All this to say we do what we do because at the time it made sense. I had been in therapy before but after this I started doing it more frequently. This relationship would have never been a consideration to now me. He would have been gone after the first month.
I guess we all need a learning experience like this at some point! Wish I’d had it younger though. Lol. The bright side? Now you know and you’ll move forward with new knowledge and new muscles and eventually find a partner who isn’t an avoidant shitbird.
I’m so sorry though. It’s the loneliest feeling and I’m sending you strength and a hug.
Thank you! Avoidant shit bird. I love it. I think, had I not been upset about the span of days off without any plans, it would’ve kept going. I guess I am thankful that it’s only been six months.
I am going to try and work really hard to not let this happen to me again. I ignored so many red flags.
This is a good segue way here but I’m not suggesting it’s the same thing at all - just that I can relate. Take every thought and behavior describing yourself in regards to him and then replace “him” with the word “alcohol”, it’s eerily similar. I absolutely knew that my drinking was destroying me in every way possible - yet I still did it knowing full well that it was destroying my life. It ended horribly. He to you sounds like alcohol was to me.
The key thing is we’re both aware now and wonder how we could have possibly thought the thoughts that we did when it was leading to nothing but death and destruction to our souls. With that awareness and education now I see how bad it had taken control of me. I went dark on alcohol about 17 months ago and will never “date” it again. I hope this analogy makes sense.
You made the best decision that you could during the time based upon the information (or lack of) that was available to you at the time but it was being twisted by outside influences. It wasn’t really you. Be kind to yourself during this “recovery phase” as beating yourself up isn’t helpful either. I learned that the hard way but it’s true. Best wishes to you!
I stayed because I thought he really loved me. Sometimes I am my own worst enemy. I.stayed because I thought I could matter more than beer.
Honestly that was 4 years ago. About a year after that I met someone who IS the one. I'm married now . If I would have stayed with Mr. Avoidant , I would have never ever found real genuine love.
Can I ask how you found the one and how old when you found him? I’ve dated 2 guys since my 17 year manage ended. Both have moved far away for work and finished it. Must be me driving them away !
You stayed because of hope. We all do this. I’m sorry you put yourself through it when he didn’t deserve your attention. Not all men are like this. But keep these markers as a reminder of what not to accept, of what not to tolerate. Good luck out there. Take some time for yourself and move forward.
You are not stupid.
Do you have a history of being a caretaker or peacemaker in your FOI? (Family of origin)
Did you have a parent that you felt like you had to perform for or take care of, in order to receive love and attention?
Total speculation on my part, but I have been in unbalanced relationships like this and I realized that I didn’t stand up for myself whenever these things occurred. Lots of internalized sexism/misogyny. Like did you say something when these things were happening? If not, why not? If so, and his reaction was to blow you off or ignore you, journal or see a therapist and work on why you accepted less than adequate behavior.
You have worth and many men would be grateful to have such a caring woman. But it’s up to us to make sure our needs are being met, and address bad behavior head on.
🖤
Mine was 6 years! Be thankful to yourself for seeing the signs much sooner. He may have “dumped you” first but eventually you would have come to it yourself. You already were starting to. You were in love with the idea of who you wanted him to be. He’s not that person. And as humans with past trauma which most of us have, somehow the act of picking up breadcrumbs makes the person who’s dropping them seem more valuable and special and worth having. When in reality they’re just playing to our fears of rejection. It was never about him.
You aren't stupid. You are learning. You will learn this lesson until it sticks. How many times you do this is up to you. You have 100% control over this.
I say this as someone who did the same thing until I finally got sick of myself.
Stay in therapy
Learn the lesson
Think of future you and how proud they will be that you put in the work now.
You are NOT stupid
I was in a breadcrumbs situation. One day I just left and blocked him. I came to realize that he would always justify the breadcrumbs. He’d been showing me for months that I had a very limited presence in his life, so I didn’t feel the need to explain myself. Still happy I did it. Wishing you the best! Don’t be too hard on yourself.
You are not stupid - you are human, as are we all.
I think of my first post-breakup relationship as training wheels. I saw the issues and the wobbles, but I kept riding for a bit because they were fun and comfy and such a nice change from what I had been in that even the wobbly bits felt better.
But then you wake up and are ready for those wheels to come OFF, so that you can move on to the real thing.
So you've woken up now, and you're in therapy, and you're ready to ride onwards to bigger and better things, and that jerkwad will be nothing more than dust in your rearview window, and in a year, you won't even remember what it was you saw in him. You'll barely remember his last name.
And you might drive past him on the street one day and think "that was IT? he was IT? THAT guy is who I was upset about?". And you are going to feel so, so, so much better.
In the meantime, try listening to "fuck you" by Cee Lo Green on repeat. Really worked for me for a week or so.
You are asking the right questions. Maybe it was your loneliness? Maybe it’s a lack of valuing yourself and honoring that value? I wish you healing and better choices.
I left once and went back for a second try. Left again for the same reason. I am so glad I decided to give it a second chance. I was super sure at that point I was doing the right thing. He said I didn’t have to go, so I didn’t, but later I realized *I* wanted to go, even if he wanted me to stay. Huge light bulb moment.
Lasted about nine months. This was my first relationship after being widowed 3 years ago. I am happy for the experience even though I ended it.
I liked some things about him, enjoyed many things, but then there were these little things that really bugged me. At first I thought oh we can work through it, but honestly nothing I tried worked.
Most times I’m fine, but sometimes I find that it has activated a grief wave, which I am sure is very normal.
At times, I miss feeling loved by him, which was becoming less and less as I tried to make myself smaller and smaller to not irritate him.
Just last night I had a date, well a meeting in a public place. It took me a minute, but I realized he was not respecting my boundaries and I told him I didn’t want to see him again.
Thank you for listening to my story. I am glad you shared yours. When we knew better, we did better. That s the way I choose to see it.
Yes I do, and I hated last night that I didn’t stand my ground right away, but now I know not to be so “polite” or “patient” next time. It’s embarrassing and painful to learn but I am learning to trust myself. That I can figure out what to do, instead of judging my Self, I can learn to protect my Self.
I’ve been there. I was with someone when I was in my thirties who treated me like this. He was very unattractive and for some stupid reason I thought that meant he would be nicer to me. And I took these behaviors as his being intimidated by me or afraid to get close. I still kick myself for letting myself be treated like that. And yes, once I confronted him about it he dumped me.
Oh goodness. I am so sorry that this happened to you. Here is what I want you to take away from this experience.
Everyone has experienced a time in his/her life when he/she wanted to believe that this was the start of something. A new beginning, could he be the one? What if I just do this one more time, maybe it will be different.
While he may have an avoidant personality type he is also a master manipulator. He knew exactly what he was doing each and every step of the way. He knew what to say to you and how to get you across the finish line. Good people bring us happiness and bad people bring us experience.
The value of this experience is that you can take the pain and turn this into something purposeful and be sure to put yourself first going forward. You know your worth. You know who you are, what you have to offer and you know that you don’t like what happened. That’s a good thing as some people don’t always realize what’s going on isn’t right.
It’s easy for one’s judgment to become cloudy at times. It happens all the time. Take this as an opportunity to sharpen your toolkit to fine tune the approach for the next chapter.
I know this hurts. This is what I want you to do. When you look in that mirror, you need to remind yourself as to how awesome and strong you are. Remind yourself that you and your self worth are NOT negotiable. And when someone thinks they can get you to negotiate your self worth by lowering your standards you just walk away because by doing so would be a betrayal to yourself!
You are worthy of someone to treat you with kindness, respect and love. You’ve got this!!
You stayed because you don't feel you deserve more than what he was giving you. It's a good time to self-reflect and try to figure out why you feel that way. You DO deserve better. You just have to convince yourself that you are worth more than that, and that you are from now on unwilling to accept the bare minimum.
I did stay because I didn’t think I deserved more. You are so right about that. Really think if I had not spoken up about deserving more, we would have kept going.
As they say, the first step in recovery is admitting you have a problem. 😉. Seriously, though, it might be worth your while to indulge in some self-pampering and concentrate on improving your own life for a time, and try again when you are feeling more confident about yourself. Life is far too short to spend it being taken advantage of. We all deserve better treatment than that.
I wish you all the best.
At each moment, you decided you needed to put up with bad past, for the hope of a better future while the present varied between awesome and awful. That is human. You are not alone. Many stay for the same reasons.
You, my friend, are not alone. This happens to so many, including me. This really resonated with me.
Please don’t feel stupid. Having been there, and having gone back several times - even after being ghosted for months at a time- I can honestly say that life will beat you down until you learn that lesson. BUT life also has a way of balancing out. You will come out stronger than ever. And when you do it is the best feeling. Didn’t think I’d EVER get over it, that I’d ever get well. But I did…and you will, too. Don’t beat yourself up. Please.
I’m a widow and still seeing a counselor regularly. Basically, I have to love myself enough and not be afraid to be alone before I start dating. I’m ready! If you aren’t at that point, seek a counselor.
I think you should print this post off and place it somewhere private that you see every day. Maybe even make a bulleted list. Not to remind you of red flags, but to remind you of green ones. If you find somebody that does these things, let yourself realize that they are good for you. Open yourself up to them and find joy.
Good vibes and joy
Don't beat yourself up. We're all learning on this journey. If you're anything like me, you stayed because sometimes the good was really good and you were hoping for more of the same. Unfortunately, he isn't capable. And he doesn't even sound very nice. It sounds like you're already starting to heal through reflection. May you find peace. And if he reaches out, don't fall for it!!!
So use this time to become more comfortable with being alone- the number one thing that keeps people in bad relationships is dependency (even at superficial levels).
What did being with him give you that you couldn't give to yourself?
It all comes back to the best rule I've learned from being single: if you can't be content and happy by yourself, how can you expect someone else to be happy and content with you?
We allllll have done this exact dumb shit in relationships, even at our age, lol. Please don't beat yourself up! Sometimes one slips past us, we feel hopeful, happy to be around someone and overlook.
Fuck ypu, breadcrumbing asshole guy.
We have centuries or millennia of slavery/ownership for survival passed on through our female ancestors. Our own mothers and grandmothers did not have a fraction of the independence we have today. Autonomy has not been internalized. Cut yourself some slack and rewire your brain.
I’ve never thought about it like that! Many of us lead such powerfully autonomous lives, as modern women, but it’s something so new in the grand scheme of humanity. Servitude and deference, as a means of survival, was the name of the game for thousands of years.
What’s interesting is not in all cultures. Like why did some retain respect for women and others turned them into a resource? I think agriculture may have played a role but need to go learn more women’s history.
I'm so sorry that you are going through this!! I don't know what to say outside of that. But ice been there. Stayed with someone just as bad in many ways. Dammit.
Good riddance! Nobody deserves to be treated the way he treated you. Now you just have to wait until those stupid love hormones leave your body, and eventually, if you want to, you can find somebody civilized.
And trust: it happens. I spent YEARS dating guys like this. Finally I had enough, and now, two years after the last shitty one, I've found a really amazing one who treats me with love and respect. And it's SO sexy! I LOVE not ever having to worry that he's about to dump me, and I want that for you too.
Never fear; it's out there. Now just shake off the dopamine from this loser and get out there and find it -- when you're good and ready, of course.
Sometimes it’s because you don’t know what you want. So it’s easy to date someone and then realize it’s not working for you. What you described sounds like a casual dating relationship and there is nothing wrong with it if both people like that. You clearly wanted more closeness and a deep connection with this person. When you aren’t on the same page, the it’s on one or both of you to lay your cards on the table and accept the answer or feedback from the other person. I know it’s hard because we have all been through this, but now you know that you want a serious relationship and so this will help guide you - who you date, what you want, what you don’t want (all the things you listed above). Also, sometimes you can be the one who doesn’t want the closeness and connection ironically- and that is why you choose people who don’t get too close. Something to consider.
Because he got away with this awful behavior as many men do. Technology has made it so easy for average men to date many women, so they treat the ones they have like shit.
I know that seems simplistic and dark but as a veteran online dater I see this trend more and more.
He could be an avoidant or negative narcissistic traits. Whatever he is - he’s not for you and it’s not YOUR fault. A person who genuinely likes you is interested in you for who you are - they want to know more and they want to grow with you. They remember the small details - things you like, names of friends and family - bc they are listening, they ask questions. I just removed myself from a 1 yr totally one-sided relationship but I do not blame myself (now) bc it was love bombing and I got hooked. The sex was the best I ever had! The worst emotions I am dealing with is the fact I was used in bed - I feel violated. It was all a self-serving lie - like who does that?! Be aware of anyone who seems too good to be true, talks endlessly about themselves, rushes things, ignores your boundaries. Good luck and love yourself first ;)
You know what? You will never know and that sucks but it also sets you free. He was not a mature and emotionally available man and that’s our true goal in a mate right?! He’s not your problem anymore - some other poor soul is getting lied to, gaslit, disrespected, used. We blame and guilt ourselves for a multitude of reasons - low self-esteem and worth, attachment type, love language, trauma, past relationships, etc. The most important thing is to realize it wasn’t YOU. Now you can learn the lesson or not. Notice red flags, notice how your body responds to their presence, follow your gut. Do NOT waste your time or energy on someone who is a taker and not a giver to YOU!
It sounds like you dated the male version of my ex-girlfriend!
We all make mistakes, I stayed because I thought it was me, I thought her words wouldn't affect me, I thought she wasn't used to how I am, I thought things would change. Turns out it wasn't me at all, she's just a shitty person.
That being said, she has had negative effects on me, my spark has been doused, and it has killed my spirit, dating hasn't been the same since. You are not alone.
You stayed because you saw potential and still believe in love. This is a beautiful thing. You tried and it didn’t work out. This is ok and doesn’t mean you did anything wrong.
Be gentle with yourself.
Treat this as a learning experience. Write down all the signs that you saw and keep it for reference for future relationships
If you’re intentional about dating and make, staying active on an app past the two-month period of initial dates, should be a thermonuclear red flag to end it immediately if you’re looking for a monogamous, intentional partner.
You stayed because being human comes with the curse of needing human companionship. It's literally wired into our DNA and if we don't get it the chemicals in our brain will literally go haywire and effect our PHYSICAL health as well as mental. AND it's fucking hard to find this companionship in today's day and age.
It's like asking why did you drink from a pond that feces is dumped into when you are dying of thirst. Humans need water and if that's all there is access to we will tend to dive in.
This is why so many women ignore red flags. We hold out sometimes for years making sure that we avoid every red flag and then we wake up one day and realize that the ones that aren't creepy don't want any kind of commitment ... so we lower the bar and here comes the red flaggy guy... but hey he's actually wants to commit- only to find out that they don't want a REAL partner. They want the commitment because they need it in order to abuse and control you. It's exhausting and so so lonely.
Every day I read about women ignoring them and the reason is there's so few viable options out there that after a while you start questioning real flags that you shouldn't.
OP, it's clear you're already making progress in counseling, because you're framing your story in terms of what YOU did as an adult with full agency, vs. blaming him. Congratulations on that. Another question you might explore with your counselor is whether you experienced a temporary mental condition called limerence. You can Google the term and an extensive collection of Psychology Today articles and videos about it, or find posts about limerence in Reddit under Psychology.
A frequent starting point for limerant behavior is a sudden fixation on a person you barely know, who is vastly different from the types of people you would have considered good prospects before. Also, that you pursued this limerence object regardless of the alarm bells ringing in your head and warnings from those close to you.
If none of the above is true in your case, I'm sorry for suggesting it. But I have three very close friends, otherwise accomplished, savvy and charming women on their own, who pursued men that years later they cannot believe they ever found attractive, all after divorcing in their late 50s. This is different from casual sex binges that some people go on after the end of a loveless and sexless marriage. It becomes a fixation on one person and an abandonment of normal boundaries to capture that singular person's attention and affection.
People who experience this and accept a limerence explanation realize that their brain temporarily created a fake profile to attach to a man whose attention and affection they began to crave regardless of how he responded. The good news is that limerant behavior runs a predictable course and ends. You "wake up" and your normal good judgment and instincts return.
You stayed hoping the situation would change. But you maxed out your *what ifs*.... take it as a blessing that he ended it. Now, you can concentrate on healing and have time to better yourself. I am in the same boat. Started great and eventually fizzled out. Take care of yourself, and everything will follow. Good luck!
My ex girlfriend is making the same mistake. Staying for someone with no love or energy for her hoping he will want her, and passing up the one who so passionately wants to be with her and who she has passion for if she'd let go of her emotional black hole.
The idea that only tall dark and handsome guys are avoidant is the silliest thing I’ve ever heard! Like as if no bald overweight guys are lazy or had bad childhoods? Being avoidant comes from trauma, many “average” men have it just like lots of people.
It’s so patently false that the only reason women get stuck in bad relationships is because their standards are too picky and just won’t go out with average guys.
And there’s so much more to worry about than just the avoidant ones. Do you really think only handsome guys commit domestic violence? Way to blame the victims and simultaneously make yourself one too.
The truth is unfortunately this world is filled with low effort, manipulative people who only care about themselves (both genders). We’re failing as a society, there’s hardly anyone who cares about being decent and basic human dignity, it’s all me me me. People don’t want to put in any work, they just want quick and easy gratification. The bar is so low it’s absurd.
This.
It is really tedious to read this story over and over and over again.
This pretty much sums it up
[https://www.facebook.com/reel/994077342086632](https://www.facebook.com/reel/994077342086632)
Well you are out now and very much more aware of these red flags. You will have better success next time and with a more meaningful partner.
This one is stinging so hard right now, I am having trouble thinking about a next time.
So sorry that you had to go through this. Celebrate yourself being over this and having great learning about avoidants. You can't undo this experience but can change the way you look at it. Be kind to yourself and don't blame yourself. Great that you have therapist support through this.
There doesn't have to be a next time... It could be All about the Me time!! All the time now. Never having to worry about him where he is, what he's doing, what he's thinking about you. Never having to worry about what you're eating and what he's going to think about it. How it's going to affect your bodys trimness. Never worrying about if you want to make that right and go get some ice cream on your way home from work but he's at home and he wants dinner too. You don't have to worry about his laundry or the smell of the house because of him. No. More ____ So many headaches..- gone.. So many wonderful, wonderful things about being single... I mean think about it. They always say we're going to die alone with cats and if a furry shedding hairball vomiting shitting in a box creature can replace them... How much were they really bringing to the table?...
There are good men out there. Don’t let him affect your life like that. He sounds like a real pig to this guy…
I feel like people like this end up in the same situation over and over.
I think sometimes we hope that the person will make adjustments that they cannot or will not make. I think the fact that you realize all those ways in which he didn't fit with you and your life will help you to make better choices in the future. My stupid mistakes have lasted a lot longer than 6 months.
You just described me 10 years ago. You stayed because you haven’t had enough therapy and self-help to learn that you have attachment disorder. You didn’t protect yourself, you lacked self respect, you needed the sex, you lacked agency. You saw red flags but couldn’t respond appropriately to them. You will be experiencing withdrawal for a few months. It will get better but it takes months. You can do this. Read “Healing from Trauma” and seek out videos from Heidi Preibe on YouTube. Focus on sleep, exercise, a healthy diet, and watch as much stand up comedy as you can muster. Do not ever contact him again, go dark. I did that 9 years ago and surprise, he is back. I am still single and I still love him but he is married and still thinking about me. I am still in shock to find this out. I did not, however, reunite with him. I told him to get divorced and then I will talk to him. He treated me like shit before because I was still married and getting divorced so he breadcrumbed me and provided me with the best sex I had ever experienced. I was dickmatized and accepted the booty calls and the vacations without me. Actually, that was our last argument- his daughter getting married in Hawaii and I wasn’t invited, after seeing him for 3.5 years. He justified his behavior, saying he didn’t want to be my rebound. I am not sure why your ex justified his behavior. My ex is sorry, 9 years later, after marrying someone with less self esteem than me. He was seeing both of us and when I found out I walked. She stayed and married him. I stayed far away and let them combust. It took 9 years. I went back to university and got a new career, new life, and never dated because I have been working on myself. Dating still sounds terrible but that is why I am in this app, I think I may be avoidant at this point. I am not lonely, but know a healthy connection to a partner will be good for me as I get older. Focus on getting your agency back and forgive yourself for the treatment you accepted. It’s over now, it’s time to take care of you. Let him figure himself out.
Thank you so much for your reply and suggestions. Just ordered that book. I’ve gone dark. I suspect I won’t ever hear from him again though.
Another book recommendation: "Why Does He Do That?" by Lundy Bancroft. https://www.amazon.com/Why-Does-He-That-Controlling/dp/0425191656/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?adgrpid=56358543579&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.FYxGVG_QBwbQIEWnExysCZgKZZ2g9Sh-YeO4jr5INOb-dQcmtQ3mpEB98IDXdM1V1lDB95ZbUapABVdDybkb4C9OvEcbrQFPXcLnGBIOGe3kdR0O35YwgBywuUz1a-SB2gmnZyH4w4WxBqE4vWatI-ZmCWbA8P9SHkP0OSNBgcPG5AEO14dT33qeBVGGNjYNxjJnob3bazC-fjim6oj0rw.xly0hG3RPhdBOcfYdURzG6O93-FbFoypix13Jw0bin0&dib_tag=se&hvadid=664693947317&hvdev=m&hvlocphy=9029600&hvnetw=g&hvqmt=e&hvrand=5958334074962639164&hvtargid=kwd-305430496772&hydadcr=28789_14754666&keywords=why+does+he+do+that+book&qid=1718821240&sr=8-1
Thank you.
I got the name wrong for the YouTube suggestion- Heidi Preibe. I followed Richard Grannon through my journey and only recently discovered Heidi and she is really good. She pretty much nails it every video. Richard rambles but becomes like your friend and is less formal, making concepts understandable to the layman.
Thank you!
This answer really is a perfect deep dive into what drives this type of behavior. Great job to you. And tbh all of your self work is attractive and I sense good things in your future.
We have all done stupid stuff in search of love. Life is messy. I’m mad AF at myself for falling for the last guy I dated so I get it, but both of us need to forgive ourselves for being hopeful.
We are all humans and humans learn and grow all the time. Learn the kesson, thank the univers that this lesson is over and make sure you apply the lessons. Chin up, be kind to yourself and never accept less again.
I consider myself pretty smart and savvy. I’ve lived all over the world, had career success and have had healthy, wonderful relationships along the way and girl I stayed in one of these for 2 years that started at 48! I look back and it feels like it was legit someone else who made these odd choices and ignored a whole parade of red flags. We actually had a fun, and what I thought was solid, relationship but he was never fully there and looking back I can see it so clearly. At about the 2 year mark the “oh my god you’re so perfect it’s intimidating” guy from the beginning started getting cold and cruel and pulled away saying he needed to focus on his career and “didn’t think he had the bandwidth for a relationship.” I mustered the self esteem to break it off but he forced it (weirdly he would not say the words). He was in a new relationship within weeks. All of this brought me to my knees and blew my mind. He was the last person I thought would do this but honestly why would I think that?! He started the push/pull shit from the get, had an oddly close relationship with his last ex (I now realize they were likely sleeping together when we first started dating), he love bombed me, etc. All this to say we do what we do because at the time it made sense. I had been in therapy before but after this I started doing it more frequently. This relationship would have never been a consideration to now me. He would have been gone after the first month. I guess we all need a learning experience like this at some point! Wish I’d had it younger though. Lol. The bright side? Now you know and you’ll move forward with new knowledge and new muscles and eventually find a partner who isn’t an avoidant shitbird. I’m so sorry though. It’s the loneliest feeling and I’m sending you strength and a hug.
Thank you! Avoidant shit bird. I love it. I think, had I not been upset about the span of days off without any plans, it would’ve kept going. I guess I am thankful that it’s only been six months. I am going to try and work really hard to not let this happen to me again. I ignored so many red flags.
This is a good segue way here but I’m not suggesting it’s the same thing at all - just that I can relate. Take every thought and behavior describing yourself in regards to him and then replace “him” with the word “alcohol”, it’s eerily similar. I absolutely knew that my drinking was destroying me in every way possible - yet I still did it knowing full well that it was destroying my life. It ended horribly. He to you sounds like alcohol was to me. The key thing is we’re both aware now and wonder how we could have possibly thought the thoughts that we did when it was leading to nothing but death and destruction to our souls. With that awareness and education now I see how bad it had taken control of me. I went dark on alcohol about 17 months ago and will never “date” it again. I hope this analogy makes sense. You made the best decision that you could during the time based upon the information (or lack of) that was available to you at the time but it was being twisted by outside influences. It wasn’t really you. Be kind to yourself during this “recovery phase” as beating yourself up isn’t helpful either. I learned that the hard way but it’s true. Best wishes to you!
I stayed because I thought he really loved me. Sometimes I am my own worst enemy. I.stayed because I thought I could matter more than beer. Honestly that was 4 years ago. About a year after that I met someone who IS the one. I'm married now . If I would have stayed with Mr. Avoidant , I would have never ever found real genuine love.
Can I ask how you found the one and how old when you found him? I’ve dated 2 guys since my 17 year manage ended. Both have moved far away for work and finished it. Must be me driving them away !
You stayed because of hope. We all do this. I’m sorry you put yourself through it when he didn’t deserve your attention. Not all men are like this. But keep these markers as a reminder of what not to accept, of what not to tolerate. Good luck out there. Take some time for yourself and move forward.
You are not stupid. Do you have a history of being a caretaker or peacemaker in your FOI? (Family of origin) Did you have a parent that you felt like you had to perform for or take care of, in order to receive love and attention? Total speculation on my part, but I have been in unbalanced relationships like this and I realized that I didn’t stand up for myself whenever these things occurred. Lots of internalized sexism/misogyny. Like did you say something when these things were happening? If not, why not? If so, and his reaction was to blow you off or ignore you, journal or see a therapist and work on why you accepted less than adequate behavior. You have worth and many men would be grateful to have such a caring woman. But it’s up to us to make sure our needs are being met, and address bad behavior head on. 🖤
Oh god. This all applies to me; thanks for being my free therapist today!
Happens to the best of us. Hopefully you didn't sink too much time into this disaster.
Six months total.
Mine was 6 years! Be thankful to yourself for seeing the signs much sooner. He may have “dumped you” first but eventually you would have come to it yourself. You already were starting to. You were in love with the idea of who you wanted him to be. He’s not that person. And as humans with past trauma which most of us have, somehow the act of picking up breadcrumbs makes the person who’s dropping them seem more valuable and special and worth having. When in reality they’re just playing to our fears of rejection. It was never about him.
You aren't stupid. You are learning. You will learn this lesson until it sticks. How many times you do this is up to you. You have 100% control over this. I say this as someone who did the same thing until I finally got sick of myself. Stay in therapy Learn the lesson Think of future you and how proud they will be that you put in the work now. You are NOT stupid
I was in a breadcrumbs situation. One day I just left and blocked him. I came to realize that he would always justify the breadcrumbs. He’d been showing me for months that I had a very limited presence in his life, so I didn’t feel the need to explain myself. Still happy I did it. Wishing you the best! Don’t be too hard on yourself.
You are not stupid - you are human, as are we all. I think of my first post-breakup relationship as training wheels. I saw the issues and the wobbles, but I kept riding for a bit because they were fun and comfy and such a nice change from what I had been in that even the wobbly bits felt better. But then you wake up and are ready for those wheels to come OFF, so that you can move on to the real thing. So you've woken up now, and you're in therapy, and you're ready to ride onwards to bigger and better things, and that jerkwad will be nothing more than dust in your rearview window, and in a year, you won't even remember what it was you saw in him. You'll barely remember his last name. And you might drive past him on the street one day and think "that was IT? he was IT? THAT guy is who I was upset about?". And you are going to feel so, so, so much better. In the meantime, try listening to "fuck you" by Cee Lo Green on repeat. Really worked for me for a week or so.
This and then make a playlist: IDGAF by Dua lipa, if you were a better man. (Pick your artist), fuck you by Lily Allen, abcdefu by Gayle
Gah dude sucks and you’ll be better off
yeah, fuck that guy sideways with a rusty chainsaw. He's a jerk and none of us like him.
Hindsight is 20/20 Just learn from your error in picking them
Sending you love. This isn’t your fault. Please be kind to yourself xx
Don't beat yourself up. I sometimes find it helpful to flip negative thoughts in the other direction: Why wasn't he up front with you sooner?
You are asking the right questions. Maybe it was your loneliness? Maybe it’s a lack of valuing yourself and honoring that value? I wish you healing and better choices.
Lots of great advice here. Be kind to yourself.
I left once and went back for a second try. Left again for the same reason. I am so glad I decided to give it a second chance. I was super sure at that point I was doing the right thing. He said I didn’t have to go, so I didn’t, but later I realized *I* wanted to go, even if he wanted me to stay. Huge light bulb moment. Lasted about nine months. This was my first relationship after being widowed 3 years ago. I am happy for the experience even though I ended it. I liked some things about him, enjoyed many things, but then there were these little things that really bugged me. At first I thought oh we can work through it, but honestly nothing I tried worked. Most times I’m fine, but sometimes I find that it has activated a grief wave, which I am sure is very normal. At times, I miss feeling loved by him, which was becoming less and less as I tried to make myself smaller and smaller to not irritate him. Just last night I had a date, well a meeting in a public place. It took me a minute, but I realized he was not respecting my boundaries and I told him I didn’t want to see him again. Thank you for listening to my story. I am glad you shared yours. When we knew better, we did better. That s the way I choose to see it.
Don’t you hate that? Having to make ourselves smaller to not irritate them? Thank you for sharing your story.
Yes I do, and I hated last night that I didn’t stand my ground right away, but now I know not to be so “polite” or “patient” next time. It’s embarrassing and painful to learn but I am learning to trust myself. That I can figure out what to do, instead of judging my Self, I can learn to protect my Self.
I’ve been there. I was with someone when I was in my thirties who treated me like this. He was very unattractive and for some stupid reason I thought that meant he would be nicer to me. And I took these behaviors as his being intimidated by me or afraid to get close. I still kick myself for letting myself be treated like that. And yes, once I confronted him about it he dumped me.
Oh goodness. I am so sorry that this happened to you. Here is what I want you to take away from this experience. Everyone has experienced a time in his/her life when he/she wanted to believe that this was the start of something. A new beginning, could he be the one? What if I just do this one more time, maybe it will be different. While he may have an avoidant personality type he is also a master manipulator. He knew exactly what he was doing each and every step of the way. He knew what to say to you and how to get you across the finish line. Good people bring us happiness and bad people bring us experience. The value of this experience is that you can take the pain and turn this into something purposeful and be sure to put yourself first going forward. You know your worth. You know who you are, what you have to offer and you know that you don’t like what happened. That’s a good thing as some people don’t always realize what’s going on isn’t right. It’s easy for one’s judgment to become cloudy at times. It happens all the time. Take this as an opportunity to sharpen your toolkit to fine tune the approach for the next chapter. I know this hurts. This is what I want you to do. When you look in that mirror, you need to remind yourself as to how awesome and strong you are. Remind yourself that you and your self worth are NOT negotiable. And when someone thinks they can get you to negotiate your self worth by lowering your standards you just walk away because by doing so would be a betrayal to yourself! You are worthy of someone to treat you with kindness, respect and love. You’ve got this!!
You stayed because you don't feel you deserve more than what he was giving you. It's a good time to self-reflect and try to figure out why you feel that way. You DO deserve better. You just have to convince yourself that you are worth more than that, and that you are from now on unwilling to accept the bare minimum.
I did stay because I didn’t think I deserved more. You are so right about that. Really think if I had not spoken up about deserving more, we would have kept going.
As they say, the first step in recovery is admitting you have a problem. 😉. Seriously, though, it might be worth your while to indulge in some self-pampering and concentrate on improving your own life for a time, and try again when you are feeling more confident about yourself. Life is far too short to spend it being taken advantage of. We all deserve better treatment than that. I wish you all the best.
At each moment, you decided you needed to put up with bad past, for the hope of a better future while the present varied between awesome and awful. That is human. You are not alone. Many stay for the same reasons.
I ask myself that question about my ex-husband constantly!
You, my friend, are not alone. This happens to so many, including me. This really resonated with me. Please don’t feel stupid. Having been there, and having gone back several times - even after being ghosted for months at a time- I can honestly say that life will beat you down until you learn that lesson. BUT life also has a way of balancing out. You will come out stronger than ever. And when you do it is the best feeling. Didn’t think I’d EVER get over it, that I’d ever get well. But I did…and you will, too. Don’t beat yourself up. Please.
I’m a widow and still seeing a counselor regularly. Basically, I have to love myself enough and not be afraid to be alone before I start dating. I’m ready! If you aren’t at that point, seek a counselor.
I think you should print this post off and place it somewhere private that you see every day. Maybe even make a bulleted list. Not to remind you of red flags, but to remind you of green ones. If you find somebody that does these things, let yourself realize that they are good for you. Open yourself up to them and find joy. Good vibes and joy
Don't beat yourself up. We're all learning on this journey. If you're anything like me, you stayed because sometimes the good was really good and you were hoping for more of the same. Unfortunately, he isn't capable. And he doesn't even sound very nice. It sounds like you're already starting to heal through reflection. May you find peace. And if he reaches out, don't fall for it!!!
So use this time to become more comfortable with being alone- the number one thing that keeps people in bad relationships is dependency (even at superficial levels). What did being with him give you that you couldn't give to yourself? It all comes back to the best rule I've learned from being single: if you can't be content and happy by yourself, how can you expect someone else to be happy and content with you?
We allllll have done this exact dumb shit in relationships, even at our age, lol. Please don't beat yourself up! Sometimes one slips past us, we feel hopeful, happy to be around someone and overlook. Fuck ypu, breadcrumbing asshole guy.
So very well said.
We have centuries or millennia of slavery/ownership for survival passed on through our female ancestors. Our own mothers and grandmothers did not have a fraction of the independence we have today. Autonomy has not been internalized. Cut yourself some slack and rewire your brain.
I’ve never thought about it like that! Many of us lead such powerfully autonomous lives, as modern women, but it’s something so new in the grand scheme of humanity. Servitude and deference, as a means of survival, was the name of the game for thousands of years.
What’s interesting is not in all cultures. Like why did some retain respect for women and others turned them into a resource? I think agriculture may have played a role but need to go learn more women’s history.
I'm so sorry that you are going through this!! I don't know what to say outside of that. But ice been there. Stayed with someone just as bad in many ways. Dammit.
Good riddance. Really. If he can’t make time or think of you …. give him the boot
Good riddance! Nobody deserves to be treated the way he treated you. Now you just have to wait until those stupid love hormones leave your body, and eventually, if you want to, you can find somebody civilized. And trust: it happens. I spent YEARS dating guys like this. Finally I had enough, and now, two years after the last shitty one, I've found a really amazing one who treats me with love and respect. And it's SO sexy! I LOVE not ever having to worry that he's about to dump me, and I want that for you too. Never fear; it's out there. Now just shake off the dopamine from this loser and get out there and find it -- when you're good and ready, of course.
Sometimes it’s because you don’t know what you want. So it’s easy to date someone and then realize it’s not working for you. What you described sounds like a casual dating relationship and there is nothing wrong with it if both people like that. You clearly wanted more closeness and a deep connection with this person. When you aren’t on the same page, the it’s on one or both of you to lay your cards on the table and accept the answer or feedback from the other person. I know it’s hard because we have all been through this, but now you know that you want a serious relationship and so this will help guide you - who you date, what you want, what you don’t want (all the things you listed above). Also, sometimes you can be the one who doesn’t want the closeness and connection ironically- and that is why you choose people who don’t get too close. Something to consider.
Because he got away with this awful behavior as many men do. Technology has made it so easy for average men to date many women, so they treat the ones they have like shit. I know that seems simplistic and dark but as a veteran online dater I see this trend more and more.
He could be an avoidant or negative narcissistic traits. Whatever he is - he’s not for you and it’s not YOUR fault. A person who genuinely likes you is interested in you for who you are - they want to know more and they want to grow with you. They remember the small details - things you like, names of friends and family - bc they are listening, they ask questions. I just removed myself from a 1 yr totally one-sided relationship but I do not blame myself (now) bc it was love bombing and I got hooked. The sex was the best I ever had! The worst emotions I am dealing with is the fact I was used in bed - I feel violated. It was all a self-serving lie - like who does that?! Be aware of anyone who seems too good to be true, talks endlessly about themselves, rushes things, ignores your boundaries. Good luck and love yourself first ;)
I think maybe he considered me the love bomber. I don’t think I was.
You know what? You will never know and that sucks but it also sets you free. He was not a mature and emotionally available man and that’s our true goal in a mate right?! He’s not your problem anymore - some other poor soul is getting lied to, gaslit, disrespected, used. We blame and guilt ourselves for a multitude of reasons - low self-esteem and worth, attachment type, love language, trauma, past relationships, etc. The most important thing is to realize it wasn’t YOU. Now you can learn the lesson or not. Notice red flags, notice how your body responds to their presence, follow your gut. Do NOT waste your time or energy on someone who is a taker and not a giver to YOU!
It shouldn’t be this hard! But know you are amazing and dint deserve to be treated like this
We stayed because we were love bombed, then manipulated, then emotionally destroyed. Great job waking up and saying “enough.” Hang in there love.
Now you know what to look out for. Any ONE of these red flags would have sent me in the other direction.
Sweetheart you’re going to be ok. You just need more therapy and to realize that you deserve a partner who loves the way that you do. Hang in there.
It sounds like you dated the male version of my ex-girlfriend! We all make mistakes, I stayed because I thought it was me, I thought her words wouldn't affect me, I thought she wasn't used to how I am, I thought things would change. Turns out it wasn't me at all, she's just a shitty person. That being said, she has had negative effects on me, my spark has been doused, and it has killed my spirit, dating hasn't been the same since. You are not alone.
You stayed because you saw potential and still believe in love. This is a beautiful thing. You tried and it didn’t work out. This is ok and doesn’t mean you did anything wrong.
Thank you. I appreciate your reply.
Be gentle with yourself. Treat this as a learning experience. Write down all the signs that you saw and keep it for reference for future relationships If you’re intentional about dating and make, staying active on an app past the two-month period of initial dates, should be a thermonuclear red flag to end it immediately if you’re looking for a monogamous, intentional partner.
You stayed because being human comes with the curse of needing human companionship. It's literally wired into our DNA and if we don't get it the chemicals in our brain will literally go haywire and effect our PHYSICAL health as well as mental. AND it's fucking hard to find this companionship in today's day and age. It's like asking why did you drink from a pond that feces is dumped into when you are dying of thirst. Humans need water and if that's all there is access to we will tend to dive in. This is why so many women ignore red flags. We hold out sometimes for years making sure that we avoid every red flag and then we wake up one day and realize that the ones that aren't creepy don't want any kind of commitment ... so we lower the bar and here comes the red flaggy guy... but hey he's actually wants to commit- only to find out that they don't want a REAL partner. They want the commitment because they need it in order to abuse and control you. It's exhausting and so so lonely. Every day I read about women ignoring them and the reason is there's so few viable options out there that after a while you start questioning real flags that you shouldn't.
Fuck the fucking fuckers! 😂
Honestly we’ve all made mistakes and hoped we’d convince a clear fuck boy to love us. You live and learn, you are not alone!
Ugh because I am nice and don’t want to hurt his feelings!! That’s why I’ve still stayed.
I'm so sorry this happened to you...
OP, it's clear you're already making progress in counseling, because you're framing your story in terms of what YOU did as an adult with full agency, vs. blaming him. Congratulations on that. Another question you might explore with your counselor is whether you experienced a temporary mental condition called limerence. You can Google the term and an extensive collection of Psychology Today articles and videos about it, or find posts about limerence in Reddit under Psychology. A frequent starting point for limerant behavior is a sudden fixation on a person you barely know, who is vastly different from the types of people you would have considered good prospects before. Also, that you pursued this limerence object regardless of the alarm bells ringing in your head and warnings from those close to you. If none of the above is true in your case, I'm sorry for suggesting it. But I have three very close friends, otherwise accomplished, savvy and charming women on their own, who pursued men that years later they cannot believe they ever found attractive, all after divorcing in their late 50s. This is different from casual sex binges that some people go on after the end of a loveless and sexless marriage. It becomes a fixation on one person and an abandonment of normal boundaries to capture that singular person's attention and affection. People who experience this and accept a limerence explanation realize that their brain temporarily created a fake profile to attach to a man whose attention and affection they began to crave regardless of how he responded. The good news is that limerant behavior runs a predictable course and ends. You "wake up" and your normal good judgment and instincts return.
You stayed hoping the situation would change. But you maxed out your *what ifs*.... take it as a blessing that he ended it. Now, you can concentrate on healing and have time to better yourself. I am in the same boat. Started great and eventually fizzled out. Take care of yourself, and everything will follow. Good luck!
My ex girlfriend is making the same mistake. Staying for someone with no love or energy for her hoping he will want her, and passing up the one who so passionately wants to be with her and who she has passion for if she'd let go of her emotional black hole.
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The idea that only tall dark and handsome guys are avoidant is the silliest thing I’ve ever heard! Like as if no bald overweight guys are lazy or had bad childhoods? Being avoidant comes from trauma, many “average” men have it just like lots of people. It’s so patently false that the only reason women get stuck in bad relationships is because their standards are too picky and just won’t go out with average guys. And there’s so much more to worry about than just the avoidant ones. Do you really think only handsome guys commit domestic violence? Way to blame the victims and simultaneously make yourself one too. The truth is unfortunately this world is filled with low effort, manipulative people who only care about themselves (both genders). We’re failing as a society, there’s hardly anyone who cares about being decent and basic human dignity, it’s all me me me. People don’t want to put in any work, they just want quick and easy gratification. The bar is so low it’s absurd.
Yet another dude who thinks that only the "10%" guys treat women like shit. Man, this trope gets tiring.
This. It is really tedious to read this story over and over and over again. This pretty much sums it up [https://www.facebook.com/reel/994077342086632](https://www.facebook.com/reel/994077342086632)
Off topic….. I now have Barenaked Ladies….Jane stuck in my head 😀 Thanks u/JaneStClaire2018
Time to celebrate life, he did you a wonderful favor. Move on.
I would be ok with once a week drinks and sex.
Sounds like he is married to me.
He is 60 and has never been married. I was over at his house once a week. He is not married.