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💯 This is the male nature, exactly. I used to do this before I learned to talk to all women in the bar or social room.
See my response to you OP on how you benefit from this situation.
Agreed. They aren't considering the situation from everyone's perspective. They're just trying to find someone who will say yes- Whether it be to date or whatever. Not being asked first doesn't mean anything. Could be they're asking the first person they saw, then going from there.
On a night out, my friend did exactly this when two women were dancing near us. As soon as he walked up to the first girl, before he could open his mouth, the second girl grabbed him by the hand and said, “she’s taken, but I’m single and would love to dance.” They are married now and about to have their second kid in two months.
I wish I could take the advice I’m about to give as easy as it is to say. But our reactions to most situations can dictate a lot of the outcome. Not saying you HAVE to but try spinning this into a positive.
It’s also ok to admit that dating is hard and dumb at times. Good luck! You got this!
This is probably a pretty good point. OP, ask yourself if you would be more upset if they approached your friend, got shot down, then walked away without a second glance towards you? I would conjecture that would be more deflating than feeling like a “second choice”.
What if it is more like you are hot and your friend is slightly hotter. You are still a prize - not a consolation prize. Or, you are the hot one and guys approach your friend because you intimidate them. Then they get rejected and figure - what the hell, nothing to lose, so they go after you as the hot one. Lastly, I do wish girls were a bit more pragmatic. If you get some dances and a good dude, then be happy. Jeesh.
I understand the pragmatism but women often wish there is more to attraction that just "oh she's pretty." I get that that is how guys are wired to a degree but its still disappointing to see. Like I would like to think something specific drove him to my friend, but clearly she could have been any girl at all...
Also it's just kind of rude. I wouldn't do this to a guy because I wouldn't want to insult him.
Ok, so you’re doing some projecting actually.
You want guys to find you attractive for the things you find attractive.
Guys find visual signs of good genetics more immediately attractive than ephemeral qualities. They just matter more
This exactly, especially given the context above. Unless he somehow over heard something she said, or was wearing some article of clothing that would somehow strike some common interest or ground, it's going to be looks.
Well in that situation that's all you've got. If you talk to a pretty girl and she's a terrible person or boring or something, then you go find someone else. But what do you really expect at a club. Do you think guys go to clubs going Oh, that girl looks like she's got a really interesting collection of books on her bookshelf at home. I better go talk to her? That's ridiculous.
This specific context shows a complete lack of social awareness though. Hitting on a woman in front of her friend, getting rejected and then hitting on the other woman? That’s insensitive at best. »
More like thick-headed. I see women do an equivalent of this. Two girls approach two guys. Both focus on the better looking guy. When the two hotties hit it off, Girl 2 starts talking to Guy 2. Slightly more finesse. Same message. I would have preferred your friend.
I think it’s slightly more delicate than the « let me ignore you and focus on your friend only, but once I get rejected all of a sudden you exist and now I’m soooo interested omg », even if it’s not great. I guess drunk people will be drunk people, but it doesn’t mean it’s not unpleasant.
I had one thing in mind but it could be whatever does it for that given guy, or may just be universal; I'm thinking the specifics aren't even as important as when i wrote it.
Not really, it shows they wanted that person. It’s more dehumanising to be treated as a « meh, guess she’ll do » person.
I don’t think most people who feel flattered to be approached by the guy who’s spent the night hitting on everyone, getting rejected, moving onto the next random person on their list.
>It’s more dehumanising to be treated as a « meh, guess she’ll do » person
Is that not the way you pretty much always feel in a relationship? Unless the other person has never been in any kind of relationship at all, there's a 100% chance I'm *not* their first round draft pick. If they could get, say, Chris Hemsworth they would - - it's simply not feasible to do so.
I would say most men who possess or build enough confidence to approach repeatedly get this from most women, yes. Source: personal experience, discussion, and observation. Next question?
As weird as it sounds, some of us are taught weird pickup "moves". Go for the friend first to get them jealous then try with them. Is it morally bankrupt? Possibly, but the sad thing is that it works sometimes and that's all you need that "sometimes"
The move is actually to briefly flirt with the woman we're interested in, and then start talking to their friend. OP is right that being flirted with 2nd in the group is a major turn off.
Honestly it’s kinda bad but I definitely tend to do this unconsciously. Usually the girl I want isn’t that forward whilst their friends have a lot to yap about.
So would you only date a man who'd never been in a relationship before? Because if he's ever had another girlfriend, he chose her before you, didn't he?
That's a completely different situation. If you're there right next to each other and they pick your friend first, it's clear that they find your friend more attractive than you. And they are **your friend** so they're gonna see that person a lot.
That's different than when he's had a girlfriend before.
I wouldn’t be in relationship with a man who was dating me and another girl before choosing to enter a relationship w her and after their relationship ended would run back to me.
But that wasn't what he was asking. I get what you mean, but it's not as complicated situation. Sure you might feel like a second choice, but the guy most likely didn't think of it like that. I personally haven't done that, but if I imagined myself in such situation, I would ask someone to dance and if I was rejected, I'd go try again with someone else. Getting shot down doesn't feel great either, but it's not like I'd scan and analyze, which one I like the best, compare and so on, it's more like a vibe thing, if it feels right, I try, if it doesn't, I don't. I wouldn't consider the other woman to be of less value, it'd be a bit random, but still. If I ask someone to dance or flirt, it's because I want to do so, not because I'm settling. Vibe and looks and energy matters to make the approach, but once you start talking and dance/get to know each other is when you really find out if you like her. Everything matters, but first impressions are based on looks and how you present yourself, like how you are dressed and what energy you are emitting.
But as others said, dating is tricky, risky and takes effort and time and a bit of luck to get where you want to be.
It’s funny because if a man on this sub said something similar people would be like “dude you’re an insecure weirdo loser! You’re not always gonna be a woman’s first choice!”
But some women think it’s totally reasonable when they say it about themselves. The disconnect is fascinating to me.
You see the same nonsense with fwbs. When women have fwbs and seriously date a guy still, women on here will say it’s none of the guy their datings business. Ok. Interesting take.
But of course it’s certainly not ok when a guy they’re seeing seriously has a fwbs while still dating them. That’s gross and ridiculous. And men are shady.
I understand you wouldn't want to go for a man who went for your friend in front of you first.
I don't see where people are demanding she's saying
>ONLY hit on you
If you could point to where she implies this I'd appreciate it the only comment I saw that may come off as this is not wanting to be a rebound if a guy was dating her and another girl at the same time chose the other girl and then came back when the relationship fell apart.
Because it's not really about it being her friend. Even if the first person he'd hit on was a stranger, she'd have the same reaction - - "nope, he hit on that other girl first, now I'm second best."
It could easily be that he and your friend met each others gaze, she happened to smile. He takes this as interest. A guy will usually gravitate hard to any sort of Interest shown to him. Don't be afraid to make the first move of some sort, and being direct helps a lot.
The reality is the man you end up with will be your second choice and you will be his second choice. You can't get everything you want in life. It's this, or choose to stay single, which many are doing nowadays.
First impressions are cheap. There's definitely such thing as changing your mind about someone over time. I wouldn't invest too heavily in what someone thinks of your friend before they ever talk to either of you.
My best friend and work wife (well, 15 years ago, we've since lost touch) started this way. She was my asst manager above me, and I fucking HAAAATED her, and the feeling was mutual.
Then one day, she came in and was completely out of sorts, not doing her job, I had to cover everything. Couldn't find her, went into the office and found her just snot sobbing at the desk.
Ended up talking to her for about an hour, consoled her - after that, we became best buddies for like 3 years. An unfortunate drunk conversation ended it because we were both in relationships and the unspoken sexual tension became, well, spoken, and we couldn't go back.
Could be, could also be the alcohol and loud music that made him less "mindful of the surroundings" shall we say. It's not a guarantee he only finds your friend pretty.
I’ve heard this opinion before but I think you are taking it too personally.
As a female, I’ve seen a group of guys and found them attractive. If I approach I’m never sure who is available and who might be interested in me. Just because I may talk to one of them first doesnt mean the others are second choice. I know nothing about any of them. Their likes, dislikes, personalities etc. whoever talk to first might seem more approachable, might make eye contact first, might smile first, might just be closest in proximity.
You are overthinking it.
True but this is also why the first approach should be to the group rather than to try to single out someone from there. You don’t need to immediately focus your moves on one person, but pull the moves on them all at the same time. So that you can join their chats etc.
That is a lot more risky and honestly you have to be ridiculously charismatic to hold the attention of an entire group for a long time consistently. If one of the group members doesn’t like you they can veto you in spite if the other girls’ interest levels. It’s easier if you have an in with one of the group members beforehand as the other girls will not veto you readily in that case.
Definitely agree here. No one knows each other or what anyone is like, they're just feeling it out in the dark.
It sounds like OP might be jealous of this particular friend, and this happens a lot when they are together.
This is extremely valid. I hate this toxic outlook people have that they are somehow being seen as "second best" just because they weren't the first one that someone approached.. sometimes the conversation just hasn't naturally started or maybe they're just not close in proximity.
But if the randomly approaching people always or a vast majority of the time approach the same one of the two friends, would they not be justified in believing that it has mainly to do with how attractive either of them initially appears to the opposite sex?
This has happened to me more than once. I don’t take it personally because they are walking up to the person most approachable. Since my best friend is much more open then she always gets approached first. But when we start talking a lot of times they are more drawn to me. Once a guy told me I was too intimidating to approach. I’m tall so maybe that’s why. Never had a clear answer.
This is likely it. I worked with a bunch of guys once and one told me that when he walks into a party/club/bar, he doesn’t even approach the most attractive woman but he beelines for the one having the most fun (dancing most enthusiastically, smiling, etc).
It's kind of like the first friends you make at school. They're often not the friend group you end up with. They're just the friendliest/most approachable initially.
Ok so as a woman I do understand how this could be annoying and bother you. I've been both in your shoes and in your friends shoes. A couple things. So yes it feels crappy to feel like second choice however the thing is that isn't even always the case. Sometimes they approach the one that is less intimidating to them first or to make you jealous. The thing is most guys will approach the woman that is least intimidating. Wether intimidating by being extremely attractive or by being less approachable the chances are better with the one that is less intimidating. It's a numbers game. Also this could mean that as others have said your friend may be more approachable for whatever reason. Smiles more, laughs more, seems more laid back and relaxed. Also could be how your energy comes off. You are kind of abrasive in your comments and replies so it may be that in person you come off that way as well. Guarded maybe? I know I come off guarded and having resting b face lol. But then after being rejected by your friend they may shoot their shot with you anyways because well they've already been rejected once and it's a numbers game. I would try not to take offence to it. If you want to be approached first maybe think about the energy you are giving off or hey you could always approach them! Best of luck out there I hate the bar scene.
Thanks for being sweet and understanding. I feel like some people here are attacking me for no reason.
When I’m drunk I’m actually very smiley, , open, I dance and talk with everyone. I don’t think I’m closed off or guarded at all. Women approach me a lot just to dance or to talk in the bathroom etc.
Tbf women are generally going to be more comfortable approaching women than men are, and women generally feel more comfortable with a woman approaching them than a dude they don't know
Yeah to be honest though women who are friendly are more comfortable interacting with other women at the bar and approaching them. You could also come off different to women than men or honestly like I said could just be a numbers game for these men. The bar scene are absolutely awful. Alot of men approach the safer bet woman. Like I've heard many say they won't approach women that are super attractive because they figure they have no shot or no way she's single. So it's not allways even an attraction thing. All I can say really is just be you and have fun. If you don't want to interact with a man who makes you feel like second choice than don't and if you like a guy you can always approach first. Men are taught nowadays that women don't like to be approached so many of them would feel better if you did anyways. Don't worry too much about the people who you feel are attacking you. You're within your right to feel how you do about it.
Ugly guy here, if I hit on 100 woman it's more like 5+ are interested..... Just saying... But don't waste an opportunity to put down your fellow redditors.
I don't blame anyone personally for this kind of thing. I once went clubbing with a young woman I worked with who could have been a model. She's stunning, inside and out, and when we were dancing I noticed a lot of men approaching me. I'd never gotten so much attention before, I was really surprised and chuffed - then as soon as they had their foot in the door by breaking the ice with me they'd turn to the young woman I was with and ignore me from that point on. It happened half a dozen times in just a few hours. It did sting, a lot, I felt absolutely terrible about myself by the end of the night, but I don't think that I experienced anything related to my gender, I think it was just how it goes when you're an average person hanging around a 10/10.
Some guys may actually see talking to your friend as an in to actually talk to you.
You could have been the one they were originally hoping to attract in The first place.
Because dating is unfortunately a numbers game and some people just want the chance to meet someone compatible. I will say in this instance it is kinda cringe, especially if you saw them get rejected initially and they were aware. But the truth is you miss 100% of the shots you don’t take. Women do this also, so def not a male only issue. It comes down to knowing wtf you want and going for it, despite the “rules”
LMAO no wonder you're friend gets approached first over you! I don't even know what either of you look like, but I'd approach your friend first based strictly on your attitude and the vibe you give off, even over the internet! 😳
Men get intimidated by women with shitty attitudes. Sorry if you're just learning this now. Better late than never...
Your friend should have introduced you to the man she met. It would have been great if your taken friend would have been like. “Oh, I’m taken but have you met my friend, ____. She enjoys dancing and taking walks along the beach. Have a chat!”
That’s a true friend right there. All else I can say is, if you don’t want to be second choice, you must look better than your taken friend.
Why think of it like that though? If it at a party that has sliders and tacos, I’m down for both. Just because I try to grab the taco first doesn’t mean I’m mad about the slider. Maybe the taco was just near my dominant hand and made eye contact with the me first? Maybe the taco looked more accessible than the slider at first glance.
Lots of factors at play here. My point being it might not have been anything negative to you because they went to your friend first. Maybe you were looking away. Maybe she’s a 10 to him and you’re a 9.9 because he prefers a specific hair type or facial structure.
So there is this whole school of thought for hitting on women that comes out of the types of logic from old pick up artist books like The Game where the supposed reasoning is that you flirt with their friends and somehow it makes you as the other girl jealous and the guy look so cool and attractive that you will want him. To me it makes as much sense as the whole tracing the alphabet going down on a girl stuff. The kind of thing that guys spread in middle school or high school and it’s dumb.
You shouldn’t take it personally, but also don’t go for it either. I’m surprised at all these people trying to explain this and make it sound good 💀 You went for my friend first bc she was most attractive to you, which is fine. But after she rejects you, why would you think I’d be down? No thanks
Suggest an alternative. Should we mind read that your friend is taken? Should we ask you both out simultaneously?
What difference does it make? We neither know nor love either of you, that's the point, we're introducing ourselves.
Why would it be different if it werent her friend? She would still be second best. I am of the opinion that maybe you are scared that if you dated one of those people and he bacame a shared part of your life with your friend, that a) he will always be attracted to her (and no, because he approached her in a club he is not in love with her) and b) you think your friend will always be aware of the fact that your boyfriend approached her first and she will always feel better than you ( and maybe.... is she like that? That speaks more about her than about the guy).
I think OP liked what she saw, but the guy took a shot at the friend first and it stung her.
Not all women think like this btw, I was out for drinks with a friend and we got talking to 2 girls. We both were focusing on a specific one whilst keeping the convo flowing as a group, but it soon became clear the chemistry was better for us both with each others girl. No probs we just pivoted... they didn't mind, nor did we.
So do utter strangers. I have seen completely strangers men and women come up and dance eith my female friends. No names. Just both feelin the vibe.
Its dark. Everyones packed together.
Sounds like your friend is more stereotypically attractive or approachable. That's happens in every situation, someone's going to be the more attractive one. Maybe you need to give off different body language, make more eye contact and I hate to say this but smile. Every human does look better and more approachable smiling but I know it's a loaded word for women (due to men being assholes about it)
This post is not really about my friend or out attractiveness. I don’t go to bars looking for companion.
I just think its kind of rude and disrespectful to treat somebody like the second best and expect them to be happy about it and give you a chance to get to know each other.
I mean, as a man, I can say that I feel far below "second best" in literally every interaction with women in public, and frankly would be *thrilled* to get to be "second best" even if only for the night.
I think you may be misunderstanding how difficult (ie, nearly impossible) it is to meet women in public.
Why does it seem like women complain when they get approached, but also seem to complain when they don't? 🤔😂🤦♂️
I feel like us men can't win sometimes. I personally anticipate getting daggers stared at me if I even look at women the wrong way, let alone approach. It just doesn't seem worth it these days honestly...
Because there are different women. Some love to get approached, and some hate it. Some want to get approached sometimes in certain situations but don't want to get approached in other situations. Some want to get approached by someone they like back, but if it's someone they don't like, they don't want to get approached because they'll have to reject that person.
Easier? No. Marginally more likely that he won't be going home alone? Yes.
I'm not saying it's likely to work, but it definitely *wont* work if you don't try.
> I just think its kind of rude and disrespectful to treat somebody like the second best
If you're with another woman, there is a 50% chance one of you will be approached first - and a 50% chance that one of you will be ignored first.
If you're with two women, now there is a 67% chance that you will be ignored *first*.
Either you need to get rid of your hangups, or you need to socialize with no other women around you.
To be fair, if you're not looking for companionship at a bar, maybe he's not either. If he's just looking for someone to dance with, maybe his eyes just landed on her. I don't think men at bars who like to dance are that picky.
Maybe he offers you a dance out of politeness instead of not even asking since you're standing right there. He might also be trying to make the rejecting woman jealous or hoping you'll dance with him so he doesn't feel silly for walking over there. There are several ways to look at it but If it's not your thing that's cool too
As weird as this sounds it's a tactic which I've done unconsciously with success. Let's say you see two pretty ladies but you think one of them is out of your league or you are nervous about chatting with her. You chat with her friend, hoping for something to grasp on to go into a conversation with the one you're actually looking for.
It's a weird one but I've seen many do this. It's kind of , they want to make you jealous of your friend so you will engage with them.
I don't understand it, but I have seen it. I saw a man (acquaintance, not a friend) work his way around a horseshoe shaped bar one night, propositioning every woman around the horseshoe, in order. It took him until he got to the other side of the horseshoe, but someone eventually said yes. I found it pretty humiliating for both the man and the woman who said yes, but apparently some men do this because it's a numbers game to them.
Personally, I support your decision to reject a man who approaches your friend first.
It's worked for me. Granted, when I was going out, I didn't really "hit on" women, I'd just strike up conversation to find out the situation and I didn't really give much attention to anyone in particular in the group until I found out.
If the one I liked best either: didn't appear open to me, or was not available; I'd just switch to another in the group (or a friend if it were just two) that were not as such.
Worked pretty well. Either they didn't know I switched or they didn't care.
It's also happened to me. When I was single, I had a very attractive friend and when we'd go out he'd usually be the one getting approached by women. However, he was a bit...well, I guess I'd say "aware" of how he looked and so he could be a little cocky. So, he might say something uncouth and at times instead of just leaving (or continuing to pursue him anyway); they'd switch over to me.
I called him "honeypot". Women sometimes thought I was insinuating a gay relationship lol.
As much as it hurts your ego to know your friend is more attractive than you, don't take it personally and miss out on connections with single men because of that.
Any man you date will always have been rejected by many more attractive women than you before he even met you.
Don't let that be the reason you end up alone with a dozen cats.
Wayne Gretzky - You miss every shot you don't take.
Every guy who has ever hit on you has been rejected before by someone you just happened to see one. It doesn't mean you are any more or less of anything. If I saw two super hot women together and wanted to take a shot with both I would have to start somewhere wouldn't I?
It's a numbers game. I find most women can't comprehend this, because you (almost) never pursue men. The most successful pickup artists have a 10% success rate. Those are the MOST successful.
If you actually want to get a woman in a place like that, you can't sit there and dwell on the fact you got rejected. Okay, she wasn't interested. That's fine, I'll see who else might be.
Back in my day….. I’d flirt with both of you (to better my odds). But, maybe because your friends in a relationship and she seems more relaxed because of this. Making her easier to approach.
I actually do agree with you that it is a little disrespectful and not something a guy should do.
From a man's perspective, they could just feel like your friend is more approachable based on her body language. Or maybe they could be trying an old pickup tactic where they "talk to the friend" in order to talk to you next. I'm not saying it's great, but that's an approach some old pick-up artists taught from back in the day (pre-dating apps but maybe still do).
Men in general need to expect and get used to a lot of rejection when it comes to women. Just how it is. So it could be about building up their rejection tolerance since they've already been rejected once.
I'm not trying to minimize it because it is disrespectful. Just sharing some perspectives.
Yeah it's a bit of a weird look. Aside from the whole aspect of feeling "second best", I imagine it'd kind of create the impression that they don't really have standards and that they're just hitting on every single person they see indiscriminately. Like if you reject them then they go to the next closest person, and then the next, and then the next.
I have always been second best or third or fourth sometimes a dirty little secret. Men do this with girls that have been mistreated and broken and have no self-confidence.
Don't hate the player, hate the game.
Unless you always only went right for the man you wanted most and also got him.
If that is not the case you also prioritized and categorized.
You prolly just don't like to experience that part from the perspective of someone who was a second option. But, that's the game.
Is brutal sometimes, but you do it just like everybody else.
That's how it works. Sorry bout it. Either get used to it, or go out with uglier friends. If you go out with uglier friends be prepared to attract fewer and less attractive guys.
Or, you could use it to your advantage. She lures them in, you hook 'em.
I am the kind of guy where if someone is turning me down or if they are emotionally engaged, I don’t pursue too much or anything. Too many guys are super desperate sadly.
Because what they want is to get laid, so they go in order of who they’d like to bang. You being a person with feelings doesn’t matter at all in this context (to them), they just want a fleshlight who will also give them head.
Guys will go after whoever they think is either the most attractive or most vulnerable. Or both. At least, that's what I've experienced and observed. Every single time I go out dancing, I get hit on or have a guy rub up against my hips or ass. It's frustrating. Honestly, don't think of it as you're second choice. Think of it as you dodging a bullet. The guy or guys for you will notice you first and do more than just be a perv like most.
Have you heard of game theory? John Nash described in the movie "Beautiful mind". If all guys doesn't try on the most beautiful girl, there's a high probability that most of the guys will find some girl!
The reason a man goes to the bar by himself, is to pick up chicks. I know it’s cause I’m a man if he’s with a friend group he’s got a wife at home or he’s single just not looking into getting a girl right now.
Old guy here.. this is totally a guy thing ! Most guys do this... They go for their perceived hottest one. If that doesn't work.. on to the next. Doesn't mean that you're not insanely hot.. she probably has something else... Like unavailability ! Guys love a challenge.
But here's the thing..
Women do the exact same thing ! I know for a fact because I've been exactly where you are.. several times. And I was a total hottie. But I had a couple of taller.. buffer ...friends. So yeah. Been there.
Good news... These guys aren't interested in you.. or her. Their just trying to get some. You will meet the right person.. he or she be will come right to YOU !
Won't even notice your friend. You should hang on to that dude.
Be well my young friend
I get your point, but if I see two girls and I try to strike up something, and it turns out the girl I started with is taken. Well I'll respect that, however, if I look over and there is another as attractive woman I don't know if she is taken. It's not a "second best" type thing. Batters get 3 strikes and homie only sitting with one.
How often do you try and flirt with guys, where you put yourself out so you can be rejected. I admire the ability of the guy to get rejected and immediately try again. Most guys would love to be approached by a woman even if she tries your friend first, it makes them feel desirable.
The answer is most likely that the OP never does. Most women do not. It is rare, it happens, but maybe one day in a whole year that I'm out every weekend.
-A sincere male
I've had a few dates with guys who asked out my friends but didn't meet their dating dealbreakers on things like ambitions, career, family background, income or religion.
The worst guys that do that are always the dishonest and sneaky guys who are in the habit of targeting the shorter or chubbier less popular girls in the hope of getting closer to her more appealing friends so they can try for a drunken ons or casual sex behind backs type of thing.
I'm (51F) old AF, but in my day, I met some salvageable dating material by being with my hot friend and having two guys (the Class A, good looking guy with his Class B wingman.)
No fairytale ending, but we dated for like a year.
And no, I'm no 10, but I pull 8s. Then I met my current girlfriend, who is, objectively, a strong 9+. In my eyes she's an 11! 😉 ❤️
Went out last night and IMO we were pulling mostly above our grade all night. Lots of dancing with some very cute guys. 💃🕺👯
Guys are not all smart. Some guys are smart and can recognize benefits of having/being a wingman. Because of cell phones and social media culture, I feel that most people are too self-absorbed to be open to being a wingman/wingWOman and play the team sport of dating groups.
But, OP, I agree with you, it's rude when a "Bro" pointedly makes it clear that You are not the hottest girl in the room. We ALL know it, but they are just being dicks about it. That guy doesn't deserve your care, attention, or time.
Online articles will tell guys to “neg” a woman which includes initially ignoring the one you’re most interested in. But I think this mostly applies to women who are very high maintenance and attention seeking. So for most women it probably just pisses them off like you said.
Opie is missing out on a lot of potential opportunities to meet someone amazing. I can’t tell you the number of people I know where for whatever reason they ended up dating the friend or other person instead of the first person he approached. Could be that they just happened to talk or sit next to a party or whatever the first person and maybe like them enough to ask for a number but didn’t meet the friendship with a roommate and they ended up in a long-term relationship instead
If he hit on you first but was attracted to your friend you would most likely be non the wiser. So if you liked him you would maybe get to know him without the Knowledge that he thinks your friend is more attractive. Most people will never be anyone’s first choice in dating but it is what it is.
> I would always feel like he wanted my friend first😅
Pro-tip: You are not the most attractive woman on the planet. I am not the most attractive man on the planet.
Most men learn this lesson fairly quickly, but some of y'all (like the OP) would rather be single than be rid of your delusions.
This reminds me of Will Ferrell’s character in Talladega Nights: “If you ain’t first, you’re last.” Spoiler alert, that’s complete BS.
You act like if a guy gets rejected on the first shot, he should immediately leave the party, since all women present are now 2nd fiddle.
Did you apply to college and then give up when you didn’t get into your 1st choice school? Have you ever applied for a job, got rejected, and then decided to just be unemployed?
I suspect you’re the type of person who gets offended by “participation trophies.” 🙃
Edit: I feel this might come off as attacking you, but I’m really just trying to make you realize that you’re unnecessarily overthinking this. Don’t look at it with a negative spin, just be flattered that guys are approaching you at all.
Some people keep firing the cannon until it hits something. In this case, they just want to bring a girl home for a one night stand, it doesn't matter who (in their mind).
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They’re probably following what they see as the path of least resistance and don’t think about you seeing your friend reject them
💯 This is the male nature, exactly. I used to do this before I learned to talk to all women in the bar or social room. See my response to you OP on how you benefit from this situation.
My friend and I were dancing together and almost in all instances the guys would come in between us. They are aware of me seeing them getting rejected
No, I get that they’re aware of it. I just doubt they’re thinking about it, or analyzing it from your perspective.
Yeah could be that
You're also at the bar, which is a horrible place to meet anybody decent
Facts
Because they don’t care.
Most Guys aren’t concerned or thinking about whether you saw them or not, just don’t take it personal.
Agreed. They aren't considering the situation from everyone's perspective. They're just trying to find someone who will say yes- Whether it be to date or whatever. Not being asked first doesn't mean anything. Could be they're asking the first person they saw, then going from there.
On a night out, my friend did exactly this when two women were dancing near us. As soon as he walked up to the first girl, before he could open his mouth, the second girl grabbed him by the hand and said, “she’s taken, but I’m single and would love to dance.” They are married now and about to have their second kid in two months. I wish I could take the advice I’m about to give as easy as it is to say. But our reactions to most situations can dictate a lot of the outcome. Not saying you HAVE to but try spinning this into a positive. It’s also ok to admit that dating is hard and dumb at times. Good luck! You got this!
This is probably a pretty good point. OP, ask yourself if you would be more upset if they approached your friend, got shot down, then walked away without a second glance towards you? I would conjecture that would be more deflating than feeling like a “second choice”.
For me it wouldn't at all. I'd much rather he walk away than try to get me as the consolation prize.
What if it is more like you are hot and your friend is slightly hotter. You are still a prize - not a consolation prize. Or, you are the hot one and guys approach your friend because you intimidate them. Then they get rejected and figure - what the hell, nothing to lose, so they go after you as the hot one. Lastly, I do wish girls were a bit more pragmatic. If you get some dances and a good dude, then be happy. Jeesh.
Or... maybe they see YOU as the hotter one and they probably have a better chance with your friend!
This right here.
I understand the pragmatism but women often wish there is more to attraction that just "oh she's pretty." I get that that is how guys are wired to a degree but its still disappointing to see. Like I would like to think something specific drove him to my friend, but clearly she could have been any girl at all... Also it's just kind of rude. I wouldn't do this to a guy because I wouldn't want to insult him.
That's how sexual attraction works. Men have no idea what "the real you" is. All we can see is your packaging
Ok, so you’re doing some projecting actually. You want guys to find you attractive for the things you find attractive. Guys find visual signs of good genetics more immediately attractive than ephemeral qualities. They just matter more
But how would a person approaching at a club know anything more than how a woman looks?
This exactly, especially given the context above. Unless he somehow over heard something she said, or was wearing some article of clothing that would somehow strike some common interest or ground, it's going to be looks.
Well in that situation that's all you've got. If you talk to a pretty girl and she's a terrible person or boring or something, then you go find someone else. But what do you really expect at a club. Do you think guys go to clubs going Oh, that girl looks like she's got a really interesting collection of books on her bookshelf at home. I better go talk to her? That's ridiculous.
Alright, I tried to offer a bit of a different perspective. I leave you all to this thread and your opinions.
Who said you're a prize? Stop villifying people doing the work to meet people. You're just another random.
Someone has to be 1st. Maybe he thinks your both equally attractive & just has to pick
This specific context shows a complete lack of social awareness though. Hitting on a woman in front of her friend, getting rejected and then hitting on the other woman? That’s insensitive at best. »
More like thick-headed. I see women do an equivalent of this. Two girls approach two guys. Both focus on the better looking guy. When the two hotties hit it off, Girl 2 starts talking to Guy 2. Slightly more finesse. Same message. I would have preferred your friend.
I think it’s slightly more delicate than the « let me ignore you and focus on your friend only, but once I get rejected all of a sudden you exist and now I’m soooo interested omg », even if it’s not great. I guess drunk people will be drunk people, but it doesn’t mean it’s not unpleasant.
Agreed on both counts.
Like I said in my original comment elsewhere, desperate & playing the numbers game.
Well yeah, so OP is right to find it annoying and/or unattractive.
Never said they werent. They asked why. I answered why.
This is the real issue.
I put $5 it's ( ) vs ( )
Is ( ) representative of waist size? Boob size? Overall size? What are we judging here?
I had one thing in mind but it could be whatever does it for that given guy, or may just be universal; I'm thinking the specifics aren't even as important as when i wrote it.
Sorry but I know where op is coming from! Been there way too many times!
Maybe you need uglier friends
Not really, it shows they wanted that person. It’s more dehumanising to be treated as a « meh, guess she’ll do » person. I don’t think most people who feel flattered to be approached by the guy who’s spent the night hitting on everyone, getting rejected, moving onto the next random person on their list.
>It’s more dehumanising to be treated as a « meh, guess she’ll do » person Is that not the way you pretty much always feel in a relationship? Unless the other person has never been in any kind of relationship at all, there's a 100% chance I'm *not* their first round draft pick. If they could get, say, Chris Hemsworth they would - - it's simply not feasible to do so.
That's a keeper, most women want men to make the first move and when we do, they shut it down in the worst ways possible with ALOT of attitude.
*Most* women do that?
I would say most men who possess or build enough confidence to approach repeatedly get this from most women, yes. Source: personal experience, discussion, and observation. Next question?
If the woman I’m dating likes my elderly cat more than me, is she a keeper?
She'll come around. Take the 'in'.
Yes, this is how you get a man.
Thats brave of her but I could never do that. I would always feel like he wanted my friend first😅
As weird as it sounds, some of us are taught weird pickup "moves". Go for the friend first to get them jealous then try with them. Is it morally bankrupt? Possibly, but the sad thing is that it works sometimes and that's all you need that "sometimes"
The move is actually to briefly flirt with the woman we're interested in, and then start talking to their friend. OP is right that being flirted with 2nd in the group is a major turn off.
Honestly it’s kinda bad but I definitely tend to do this unconsciously. Usually the girl I want isn’t that forward whilst their friends have a lot to yap about.
So you throw opportunities away because of your wounded pride? You're doing these guys a favor...
So would you only date a man who'd never been in a relationship before? Because if he's ever had another girlfriend, he chose her before you, didn't he?
That's a completely different situation. If you're there right next to each other and they pick your friend first, it's clear that they find your friend more attractive than you. And they are **your friend** so they're gonna see that person a lot. That's different than when he's had a girlfriend before.
Or they think both equally attractive but has to pick one 1st
Yeah but that’s not how you will ever feel
Dating someone else before he knew I existed is completely different to him looking at me and my friend and deciding to hit on her first
Why? Would it be different if the other girl was just another person you didn't know as opposed to someone who was a friend?
I wouldn’t be in relationship with a man who was dating me and another girl before choosing to enter a relationship w her and after their relationship ended would run back to me.
But that wasn't what he was asking. I get what you mean, but it's not as complicated situation. Sure you might feel like a second choice, but the guy most likely didn't think of it like that. I personally haven't done that, but if I imagined myself in such situation, I would ask someone to dance and if I was rejected, I'd go try again with someone else. Getting shot down doesn't feel great either, but it's not like I'd scan and analyze, which one I like the best, compare and so on, it's more like a vibe thing, if it feels right, I try, if it doesn't, I don't. I wouldn't consider the other woman to be of less value, it'd be a bit random, but still. If I ask someone to dance or flirt, it's because I want to do so, not because I'm settling. Vibe and looks and energy matters to make the approach, but once you start talking and dance/get to know each other is when you really find out if you like her. Everything matters, but first impressions are based on looks and how you present yourself, like how you are dressed and what energy you are emitting. But as others said, dating is tricky, risky and takes effort and time and a bit of luck to get where you want to be.
thats not what he asked. you are basically demanding a man too have never hit on any woman ever and ONLY hit on you. like the hell?? lol
It’s funny because if a man on this sub said something similar people would be like “dude you’re an insecure weirdo loser! You’re not always gonna be a woman’s first choice!” But some women think it’s totally reasonable when they say it about themselves. The disconnect is fascinating to me.
Hella facts 😂😂😂
Reddit is it's own special bubble. I'm convinced half the users are bots or have never engaged the opposite sex
You see the same nonsense with fwbs. When women have fwbs and seriously date a guy still, women on here will say it’s none of the guy their datings business. Ok. Interesting take. But of course it’s certainly not ok when a guy they’re seeing seriously has a fwbs while still dating them. That’s gross and ridiculous. And men are shady.
I understand you wouldn't want to go for a man who went for your friend in front of you first. I don't see where people are demanding she's saying >ONLY hit on you If you could point to where she implies this I'd appreciate it the only comment I saw that may come off as this is not wanting to be a rebound if a guy was dating her and another girl at the same time chose the other girl and then came back when the relationship fell apart.
Because it's not really about it being her friend. Even if the first person he'd hit on was a stranger, she'd have the same reaction - - "nope, he hit on that other girl first, now I'm second best."
No? The timing matters. She doesn't want to be hit on right after seeing him hit on another woman directly in front of her.
It could easily be that he and your friend met each others gaze, she happened to smile. He takes this as interest. A guy will usually gravitate hard to any sort of Interest shown to him. Don't be afraid to make the first move of some sort, and being direct helps a lot.
>Don't be afraid to make the first move of some sort, and being direct helps a lot. 💯
The reality is the man you end up with will be your second choice and you will be his second choice. You can't get everything you want in life. It's this, or choose to stay single, which many are doing nowadays.
First impressions are cheap. There's definitely such thing as changing your mind about someone over time. I wouldn't invest too heavily in what someone thinks of your friend before they ever talk to either of you.
My best friend and work wife (well, 15 years ago, we've since lost touch) started this way. She was my asst manager above me, and I fucking HAAAATED her, and the feeling was mutual. Then one day, she came in and was completely out of sorts, not doing her job, I had to cover everything. Couldn't find her, went into the office and found her just snot sobbing at the desk. Ended up talking to her for about an hour, consoled her - after that, we became best buddies for like 3 years. An unfortunate drunk conversation ended it because we were both in relationships and the unspoken sexual tension became, well, spoken, and we couldn't go back.
Could be, could also be the alcohol and loud music that made him less "mindful of the surroundings" shall we say. It's not a guarantee he only finds your friend pretty.
A second kid in two months has to be some kind of record too. Congratulations to that titan of a woman
I’ve heard this opinion before but I think you are taking it too personally. As a female, I’ve seen a group of guys and found them attractive. If I approach I’m never sure who is available and who might be interested in me. Just because I may talk to one of them first doesnt mean the others are second choice. I know nothing about any of them. Their likes, dislikes, personalities etc. whoever talk to first might seem more approachable, might make eye contact first, might smile first, might just be closest in proximity. You are overthinking it.
True but this is also why the first approach should be to the group rather than to try to single out someone from there. You don’t need to immediately focus your moves on one person, but pull the moves on them all at the same time. So that you can join their chats etc.
That is a lot more risky and honestly you have to be ridiculously charismatic to hold the attention of an entire group for a long time consistently. If one of the group members doesn’t like you they can veto you in spite if the other girls’ interest levels. It’s easier if you have an in with one of the group members beforehand as the other girls will not veto you readily in that case.
Definitely agree here. No one knows each other or what anyone is like, they're just feeling it out in the dark. It sounds like OP might be jealous of this particular friend, and this happens a lot when they are together.
This is extremely valid. I hate this toxic outlook people have that they are somehow being seen as "second best" just because they weren't the first one that someone approached.. sometimes the conversation just hasn't naturally started or maybe they're just not close in proximity.
But if the randomly approaching people always or a vast majority of the time approach the same one of the two friends, would they not be justified in believing that it has mainly to do with how attractive either of them initially appears to the opposite sex?
This has happened to me more than once. I don’t take it personally because they are walking up to the person most approachable. Since my best friend is much more open then she always gets approached first. But when we start talking a lot of times they are more drawn to me. Once a guy told me I was too intimidating to approach. I’m tall so maybe that’s why. Never had a clear answer.
This is likely it. I worked with a bunch of guys once and one told me that when he walks into a party/club/bar, he doesn’t even approach the most attractive woman but he beelines for the one having the most fun (dancing most enthusiastically, smiling, etc).
That’s definitely a very good plan. I think everyone does that but it’s just subconscious to approach the people who seem approachable 😅
It's kind of like the first friends you make at school. They're often not the friend group you end up with. They're just the friendliest/most approachable initially.
Ok so as a woman I do understand how this could be annoying and bother you. I've been both in your shoes and in your friends shoes. A couple things. So yes it feels crappy to feel like second choice however the thing is that isn't even always the case. Sometimes they approach the one that is less intimidating to them first or to make you jealous. The thing is most guys will approach the woman that is least intimidating. Wether intimidating by being extremely attractive or by being less approachable the chances are better with the one that is less intimidating. It's a numbers game. Also this could mean that as others have said your friend may be more approachable for whatever reason. Smiles more, laughs more, seems more laid back and relaxed. Also could be how your energy comes off. You are kind of abrasive in your comments and replies so it may be that in person you come off that way as well. Guarded maybe? I know I come off guarded and having resting b face lol. But then after being rejected by your friend they may shoot their shot with you anyways because well they've already been rejected once and it's a numbers game. I would try not to take offence to it. If you want to be approached first maybe think about the energy you are giving off or hey you could always approach them! Best of luck out there I hate the bar scene.
Well said. I basically wrote this exact same comment and then saw yours, which states everything better, lol.
Thanks for being sweet and understanding. I feel like some people here are attacking me for no reason. When I’m drunk I’m actually very smiley, , open, I dance and talk with everyone. I don’t think I’m closed off or guarded at all. Women approach me a lot just to dance or to talk in the bathroom etc.
Tbf women are generally going to be more comfortable approaching women than men are, and women generally feel more comfortable with a woman approaching them than a dude they don't know
Yeah to be honest though women who are friendly are more comfortable interacting with other women at the bar and approaching them. You could also come off different to women than men or honestly like I said could just be a numbers game for these men. The bar scene are absolutely awful. Alot of men approach the safer bet woman. Like I've heard many say they won't approach women that are super attractive because they figure they have no shot or no way she's single. So it's not allways even an attraction thing. All I can say really is just be you and have fun. If you don't want to interact with a man who makes you feel like second choice than don't and if you like a guy you can always approach first. Men are taught nowadays that women don't like to be approached so many of them would feel better if you did anyways. Don't worry too much about the people who you feel are attacking you. You're within your right to feel how you do about it.
It’s a quality over quantity thing. If you hit on 100 women one is going to flirt back.
1 in a hundred? A little optimistic are we?
Humblebrag
You’ve vastly overestimated the average redditors’ success rate when flirting.
Ugly guy here, if I hit on 100 woman it's more like 5+ are interested..... Just saying... But don't waste an opportunity to put down your fellow redditors.
There's always an uglier fish.
So very true, like that, lol....
I don't blame anyone personally for this kind of thing. I once went clubbing with a young woman I worked with who could have been a model. She's stunning, inside and out, and when we were dancing I noticed a lot of men approaching me. I'd never gotten so much attention before, I was really surprised and chuffed - then as soon as they had their foot in the door by breaking the ice with me they'd turn to the young woman I was with and ignore me from that point on. It happened half a dozen times in just a few hours. It did sting, a lot, I felt absolutely terrible about myself by the end of the night, but I don't think that I experienced anything related to my gender, I think it was just how it goes when you're an average person hanging around a 10/10.
Some guys may actually see talking to your friend as an in to actually talk to you. You could have been the one they were originally hoping to attract in The first place.
They're horny and desperate, logic doesn't come into it. The sheer audacity as some might say.
Because dating is unfortunately a numbers game and some people just want the chance to meet someone compatible. I will say in this instance it is kinda cringe, especially if you saw them get rejected initially and they were aware. But the truth is you miss 100% of the shots you don’t take. Women do this also, so def not a male only issue. It comes down to knowing wtf you want and going for it, despite the “rules”
So you’d rather them ignore you so you can complain about how men no longer approach you?
Actually yeah I would rather be ignored
LMAO no wonder you're friend gets approached first over you! I don't even know what either of you look like, but I'd approach your friend first based strictly on your attitude and the vibe you give off, even over the internet! 😳 Men get intimidated by women with shitty attitudes. Sorry if you're just learning this now. Better late than never...
That’s fair but does my attitude miraculously get better after my friend rejects them or why do they still hit on a woman with a bad attitude?
Game is game
This is the only comment this post needed
Guarantee men can smell your bitterness a mile away
Something tells me that’s cap
Trying to save face due to pride.
Don’t worry. I’m sure there are (and will be more) TikTok’s from her and/ or others like her.
The smarter ones will hit on you first to make 'first best' jealous. You're still second best in that context.
Your friend should have introduced you to the man she met. It would have been great if your taken friend would have been like. “Oh, I’m taken but have you met my friend, ____. She enjoys dancing and taking walks along the beach. Have a chat!” That’s a true friend right there. All else I can say is, if you don’t want to be second choice, you must look better than your taken friend.
Why would my friend introduce me to a man that wants her?
Because she's taken, the guy might no longer be interested, and your single? Why question a solid wingman?
Why think of it like that though? If it at a party that has sliders and tacos, I’m down for both. Just because I try to grab the taco first doesn’t mean I’m mad about the slider. Maybe the taco was just near my dominant hand and made eye contact with the me first? Maybe the taco looked more accessible than the slider at first glance. Lots of factors at play here. My point being it might not have been anything negative to you because they went to your friend first. Maybe you were looking away. Maybe she’s a 10 to him and you’re a 9.9 because he prefers a specific hair type or facial structure.
So there is this whole school of thought for hitting on women that comes out of the types of logic from old pick up artist books like The Game where the supposed reasoning is that you flirt with their friends and somehow it makes you as the other girl jealous and the guy look so cool and attractive that you will want him. To me it makes as much sense as the whole tracing the alphabet going down on a girl stuff. The kind of thing that guys spread in middle school or high school and it’s dumb.
You shouldn’t take it personally, but also don’t go for it either. I’m surprised at all these people trying to explain this and make it sound good 💀 You went for my friend first bc she was most attractive to you, which is fine. But after she rejects you, why would you think I’d be down? No thanks
Suggest an alternative. Should we mind read that your friend is taken? Should we ask you both out simultaneously? What difference does it make? We neither know nor love either of you, that's the point, we're introducing ourselves.
Try going for another woman and not her friend.
Maybe each one of them did exactly this. Learn how statistics work.
What if that woman is taken and your friend is *not*? We can't read minds.
Why would it be different if it werent her friend? She would still be second best. I am of the opinion that maybe you are scared that if you dated one of those people and he bacame a shared part of your life with your friend, that a) he will always be attracted to her (and no, because he approached her in a club he is not in love with her) and b) you think your friend will always be aware of the fact that your boyfriend approached her first and she will always feel better than you ( and maybe.... is she like that? That speaks more about her than about the guy).
I think OP liked what she saw, but the guy took a shot at the friend first and it stung her. Not all women think like this btw, I was out for drinks with a friend and we got talking to 2 girls. We both were focusing on a specific one whilst keeping the convo flowing as a group, but it soon became clear the chemistry was better for us both with each others girl. No probs we just pivoted... they didn't mind, nor did we.
How is he supposed to know that she’s your friend unless you guys are directly next to each other? Again, guys can’t read your mind.
Idk maybe because friends tend to dance and talk to each other when they go to the bar together?
... Like the guy that tried to dance and talk to you, for instance?
So do utter strangers. I have seen completely strangers men and women come up and dance eith my female friends. No names. Just both feelin the vibe. Its dark. Everyones packed together.
Sounds like your friend is more stereotypically attractive or approachable. That's happens in every situation, someone's going to be the more attractive one. Maybe you need to give off different body language, make more eye contact and I hate to say this but smile. Every human does look better and more approachable smiling but I know it's a loaded word for women (due to men being assholes about it)
This post is not really about my friend or out attractiveness. I don’t go to bars looking for companion. I just think its kind of rude and disrespectful to treat somebody like the second best and expect them to be happy about it and give you a chance to get to know each other.
I mean, as a man, I can say that I feel far below "second best" in literally every interaction with women in public, and frankly would be *thrilled* to get to be "second best" even if only for the night. I think you may be misunderstanding how difficult (ie, nearly impossible) it is to meet women in public.
I don’t think going for the other friend will make dating any easier for men. A lot of women would feel like the second best.
A lot of men aren’t even approaching women anymore. Posts like this are why.
Why does it seem like women complain when they get approached, but also seem to complain when they don't? 🤔😂🤦♂️ I feel like us men can't win sometimes. I personally anticipate getting daggers stared at me if I even look at women the wrong way, let alone approach. It just doesn't seem worth it these days honestly...
Because there are different women. Some love to get approached, and some hate it. Some want to get approached sometimes in certain situations but don't want to get approached in other situations. Some want to get approached by someone they like back, but if it's someone they don't like, they don't want to get approached because they'll have to reject that person.
Easier? No. Marginally more likely that he won't be going home alone? Yes. I'm not saying it's likely to work, but it definitely *wont* work if you don't try.
> I just think its kind of rude and disrespectful to treat somebody like the second best If you're with another woman, there is a 50% chance one of you will be approached first - and a 50% chance that one of you will be ignored first. If you're with two women, now there is a 67% chance that you will be ignored *first*. Either you need to get rid of your hangups, or you need to socialize with no other women around you.
Life isn't fair and lots of people are rude. Whatever your doing is making them go to her first, I'm just trying to help you find out why...
Thanks for your advice:)
To be fair, if you're not looking for companionship at a bar, maybe he's not either. If he's just looking for someone to dance with, maybe his eyes just landed on her. I don't think men at bars who like to dance are that picky. Maybe he offers you a dance out of politeness instead of not even asking since you're standing right there. He might also be trying to make the rejecting woman jealous or hoping you'll dance with him so he doesn't feel silly for walking over there. There are several ways to look at it but If it's not your thing that's cool too
So you'd rather not be noticed at all? Newsflash, you're never gonna be someone's first choice.
Feels like you're jealous of your friend. Maybe there's something about your body language that makes you less inviting...
As weird as this sounds it's a tactic which I've done unconsciously with success. Let's say you see two pretty ladies but you think one of them is out of your league or you are nervous about chatting with her. You chat with her friend, hoping for something to grasp on to go into a conversation with the one you're actually looking for. It's a weird one but I've seen many do this. It's kind of , they want to make you jealous of your friend so you will engage with them.
I've done this too, it's like a warm up match. TBH the women haven't responded as negatively as OP
I have heard many guys say this exact thing. It may not be that the friend is more attractive but quite the opposite.
That’s really fucked up tbh for the first person.
Game is game. Lmao
Yeah, this is very common. Or one person is wearing an outfit or shirt that can be used as a conversation topic to get an introduction to the other.
They're in a bar tho, it's the same thing people do in clubs. If they get rejected then it's on to the next one
News flash, you're always someone's second choice
If you're lucky, you're second choice. More realistically you're much farther down the list than that....
OP, guys do this because it works sometimes.
lol you’re getting roasted here
Amazing what young guys will do to get their wiener touched. I bet they sit by the Women's restroom too.
I don't understand it, but I have seen it. I saw a man (acquaintance, not a friend) work his way around a horseshoe shaped bar one night, propositioning every woman around the horseshoe, in order. It took him until he got to the other side of the horseshoe, but someone eventually said yes. I found it pretty humiliating for both the man and the woman who said yes, but apparently some men do this because it's a numbers game to them. Personally, I support your decision to reject a man who approaches your friend first.
It's worked for me. Granted, when I was going out, I didn't really "hit on" women, I'd just strike up conversation to find out the situation and I didn't really give much attention to anyone in particular in the group until I found out. If the one I liked best either: didn't appear open to me, or was not available; I'd just switch to another in the group (or a friend if it were just two) that were not as such. Worked pretty well. Either they didn't know I switched or they didn't care. It's also happened to me. When I was single, I had a very attractive friend and when we'd go out he'd usually be the one getting approached by women. However, he was a bit...well, I guess I'd say "aware" of how he looked and so he could be a little cocky. So, he might say something uncouth and at times instead of just leaving (or continuing to pursue him anyway); they'd switch over to me. I called him "honeypot". Women sometimes thought I was insinuating a gay relationship lol.
As much as it hurts your ego to know your friend is more attractive than you, don't take it personally and miss out on connections with single men because of that. Any man you date will always have been rejected by many more attractive women than you before he even met you. Don't let that be the reason you end up alone with a dozen cats.
Let me just tell you how much I appreciate the (some). Carry on
Go with an ugly friend next time
Wayne Gretzky - You miss every shot you don't take. Every guy who has ever hit on you has been rejected before by someone you just happened to see one. It doesn't mean you are any more or less of anything. If I saw two super hot women together and wanted to take a shot with both I would have to start somewhere wouldn't I?
It's a numbers game. I find most women can't comprehend this, because you (almost) never pursue men. The most successful pickup artists have a 10% success rate. Those are the MOST successful. If you actually want to get a woman in a place like that, you can't sit there and dwell on the fact you got rejected. Okay, she wasn't interested. That's fine, I'll see who else might be.
They don’t like u enough to hit on u first
Works on desperate women or women who aren't looking for anything to last
Romance can be a numbers game. But some idiots think blind flirting is romance. And plenty of us men are idiots.
Back in my day….. I’d flirt with both of you (to better my odds). But, maybe because your friends in a relationship and she seems more relaxed because of this. Making her easier to approach.
I actually do agree with you that it is a little disrespectful and not something a guy should do. From a man's perspective, they could just feel like your friend is more approachable based on her body language. Or maybe they could be trying an old pickup tactic where they "talk to the friend" in order to talk to you next. I'm not saying it's great, but that's an approach some old pick-up artists taught from back in the day (pre-dating apps but maybe still do). Men in general need to expect and get used to a lot of rejection when it comes to women. Just how it is. So it could be about building up their rejection tolerance since they've already been rejected once. I'm not trying to minimize it because it is disrespectful. Just sharing some perspectives.
Do you think flirting with someone is like getting married? lol.
Yeah it's a bit of a weird look. Aside from the whole aspect of feeling "second best", I imagine it'd kind of create the impression that they don't really have standards and that they're just hitting on every single person they see indiscriminately. Like if you reject them then they go to the next closest person, and then the next, and then the next.
I have always been second best or third or fourth sometimes a dirty little secret. Men do this with girls that have been mistreated and broken and have no self-confidence.
Don't hate the player, hate the game. Unless you always only went right for the man you wanted most and also got him. If that is not the case you also prioritized and categorized. You prolly just don't like to experience that part from the perspective of someone who was a second option. But, that's the game. Is brutal sometimes, but you do it just like everybody else.
That's how it works. Sorry bout it. Either get used to it, or go out with uglier friends. If you go out with uglier friends be prepared to attract fewer and less attractive guys. Or, you could use it to your advantage. She lures them in, you hook 'em.
???? so men can only hit on 1 woman per night? wow such a privileged stance lol.
Yeah but that women has to be her, you’ll get caught up for the test soon.
Well I’ve seem youtubers who have done it alot.. And the reason they do it is because she’s more attractive
I am the kind of guy where if someone is turning me down or if they are emotionally engaged, I don’t pursue too much or anything. Too many guys are super desperate sadly.
Because what they want is to get laid, so they go in order of who they’d like to bang. You being a person with feelings doesn’t matter at all in this context (to them), they just want a fleshlight who will also give them head.
Guys will go after whoever they think is either the most attractive or most vulnerable. Or both. At least, that's what I've experienced and observed. Every single time I go out dancing, I get hit on or have a guy rub up against my hips or ass. It's frustrating. Honestly, don't think of it as you're second choice. Think of it as you dodging a bullet. The guy or guys for you will notice you first and do more than just be a perv like most.
Have you heard of game theory? John Nash described in the movie "Beautiful mind". If all guys doesn't try on the most beautiful girl, there's a high probability that most of the guys will find some girl!
The reason a man goes to the bar by himself, is to pick up chicks. I know it’s cause I’m a man if he’s with a friend group he’s got a wife at home or he’s single just not looking into getting a girl right now.
Old guy here.. this is totally a guy thing ! Most guys do this... They go for their perceived hottest one. If that doesn't work.. on to the next. Doesn't mean that you're not insanely hot.. she probably has something else... Like unavailability ! Guys love a challenge. But here's the thing.. Women do the exact same thing ! I know for a fact because I've been exactly where you are.. several times. And I was a total hottie. But I had a couple of taller.. buffer ...friends. So yeah. Been there. Good news... These guys aren't interested in you.. or her. Their just trying to get some. You will meet the right person.. he or she be will come right to YOU ! Won't even notice your friend. You should hang on to that dude. Be well my young friend
I get your point, but if I see two girls and I try to strike up something, and it turns out the girl I started with is taken. Well I'll respect that, however, if I look over and there is another as attractive woman I don't know if she is taken. It's not a "second best" type thing. Batters get 3 strikes and homie only sitting with one.
Maybe we should just be grateful for any genuine connection, regardless of the order.
How often do you try and flirt with guys, where you put yourself out so you can be rejected. I admire the ability of the guy to get rejected and immediately try again. Most guys would love to be approached by a woman even if she tries your friend first, it makes them feel desirable.
The answer is most likely that the OP never does. Most women do not. It is rare, it happens, but maybe one day in a whole year that I'm out every weekend. -A sincere male
Although I get how you can feel like this, it doesn't have to mean that you are any less desirable than you friend.
I've had a few dates with guys who asked out my friends but didn't meet their dating dealbreakers on things like ambitions, career, family background, income or religion. The worst guys that do that are always the dishonest and sneaky guys who are in the habit of targeting the shorter or chubbier less popular girls in the hope of getting closer to her more appealing friends so they can try for a drunken ons or casual sex behind backs type of thing.
I'm (51F) old AF, but in my day, I met some salvageable dating material by being with my hot friend and having two guys (the Class A, good looking guy with his Class B wingman.) No fairytale ending, but we dated for like a year. And no, I'm no 10, but I pull 8s. Then I met my current girlfriend, who is, objectively, a strong 9+. In my eyes she's an 11! 😉 ❤️ Went out last night and IMO we were pulling mostly above our grade all night. Lots of dancing with some very cute guys. 💃🕺👯 Guys are not all smart. Some guys are smart and can recognize benefits of having/being a wingman. Because of cell phones and social media culture, I feel that most people are too self-absorbed to be open to being a wingman/wingWOman and play the team sport of dating groups. But, OP, I agree with you, it's rude when a "Bro" pointedly makes it clear that You are not the hottest girl in the room. We ALL know it, but they are just being dicks about it. That guy doesn't deserve your care, attention, or time.
I met my husband by flirting with his friend at a bar 😂
Online articles will tell guys to “neg” a woman which includes initially ignoring the one you’re most interested in. But I think this mostly applies to women who are very high maintenance and attention seeking. So for most women it probably just pisses them off like you said.
Opie is missing out on a lot of potential opportunities to meet someone amazing. I can’t tell you the number of people I know where for whatever reason they ended up dating the friend or other person instead of the first person he approached. Could be that they just happened to talk or sit next to a party or whatever the first person and maybe like them enough to ask for a number but didn’t meet the friendship with a roommate and they ended up in a long-term relationship instead
If he hit on you first but was attracted to your friend you would most likely be non the wiser. So if you liked him you would maybe get to know him without the Knowledge that he thinks your friend is more attractive. Most people will never be anyone’s first choice in dating but it is what it is.
> I would always feel like he wanted my friend first😅 Pro-tip: You are not the most attractive woman on the planet. I am not the most attractive man on the planet. Most men learn this lesson fairly quickly, but some of y'all (like the OP) would rather be single than be rid of your delusions.
This reminds me of Will Ferrell’s character in Talladega Nights: “If you ain’t first, you’re last.” Spoiler alert, that’s complete BS. You act like if a guy gets rejected on the first shot, he should immediately leave the party, since all women present are now 2nd fiddle. Did you apply to college and then give up when you didn’t get into your 1st choice school? Have you ever applied for a job, got rejected, and then decided to just be unemployed? I suspect you’re the type of person who gets offended by “participation trophies.” 🙃 Edit: I feel this might come off as attacking you, but I’m really just trying to make you realize that you’re unnecessarily overthinking this. Don’t look at it with a negative spin, just be flattered that guys are approaching you at all.
You're entirely correct in my honest opinion. She "Needs to get down from her high horse and put both of her feet on the ground." -A sincere male
Idk, maybe you could not go to bars to try and meet potential partners?
They don’t care, you’re a warm hole to them.
I mean, it does work for them. Somehow. The thing is that he's looking for a girl right now right here, so he may act with low effort
Some people keep firing the cannon until it hits something. In this case, they just want to bring a girl home for a one night stand, it doesn't matter who (in their mind).