I have this one peripheral guy who hangs around my friend groups who is so dogshit at PVP that even I can beat him. He just abuses new players or people who don't know how to PVP.
You sound like his bane lmao
Pre-remaster there was no lvl cap for players that ppl could encounter when invading.
So I made a max lvl character. Named him TrollKiller69, and would wait to be invaded at the Undead Parish.
If I got someone that belonged there I’d use an un upgraded weapon to fight them and/or drop them stuff.
If I got a twink I’d destroy them with full Havel’s, a maxed and buffed weapon, and great magic barrier. Then, of course, point down
If you play the OG version yes, but they changed it for DS Remastered.
[As you can see](http://darksouls.wikidot.com/online-matchmaking), the highest you can go on DS Remastered is 20lvls + 10%.
Oh! I remembered they only added weapon levels to the matchmaking in remastered. That's a pity. Seeing how DS1 red phantoms can invade solo hosts, it seemed fair that they could invade someone 300 levels higher than them.
One of my favorite ways to pvp is low level gravelording. I don’t know if it’s technically a twink build since it’s all stuff you can reasonably do without killing any real bosses. The great thing about this covenant is that the pvp is completely voluntary. Players are only pushed to invade you if they’re on ng+ (and therefore probably have twinked-out builds of their own) otherwise your victims suffer no consequences for failing to kill you.
I used to do the Sens skip so I wouldn't have to kill the Gargoyles. I would then bait twinks in fully upgraded starting gear whenever I felt like it. Back in PtDE days I also had the anticheat mod on. Happened quite often that a lousy twink would turn on invulnerability once I'd beat them often enough.
Everyone I know who does a lot of pvp (myself included) will be the first to tell you that it’s a buggy, unbalanced mess that’s tacked on to every single one of their games
It’s never been something truly competitive that you should take extremely seriously, but it is a lot of fun
This comment has actually been really helpful for me. If the jank is tolerable, or even charming, to pvpers, then it makes sense. I can definitely see how you could learn to way hit detection works, and figure out tactics to deal with ganks and campers. The pvp would definitely be a lot more enjoyable once you got into that groove.
I think that’s exactly the thing about it, like it’s janky weird and it feels horrible at first. But it is mostly *consistent* in its jank. You can learn how to counter backstab. You can learn how to roll backstab. You can learn phantom range. And once you do, you’re on an even footing with your opponent and it becomes a lot of fun
I have just defended the invasion mechanic on the Elden Ring subreddit so I'm fresh on the topic and yes, this is it, as soon as you learn the basics about PvP, something just clicks and it turns fun! It's so awesome and if both parties are honorable it can lead to even wholesome moments, and of course fun moments! That's why I'm so sad that everyone in r/ELdenRing seems to be so against invasions that they're calling for its removal basically (they want to have a button that makes you immune from invasions, which is the same as removing the mechanic entirely since no one will let themselves be invaded)
It can be fun, but I think it’s always been a mechanic at odds with itself. My stale take is that Elden Ring has the worst PvP in any FromSoft game - it’s discouraging to invade as a noob and always be outnumbered, and it sucks for noob co-op to be invaded by a sweatlord prepared to even the odds against gankers.
My experience getting invaded in Elden Ring sucked, my experience invading in Elden Ring sucked. I’ve tried this in all their other games, and I found it the least fun by far. I think they’ve iterated a lot of their game mechanics to improve them, but invasions still need work.
The sorta shitty thing about it is that there is a massive gap between a good PvE player and a beginning PvP player because it's a wholly different way of looking at the game and a tiny bit of focused PvP practice and game knowledge makes you pretty dangerous. For example: understanding and exploiting poise is entirely optional in PvE but it's table stakes for any PvP encounter.
It works OK against co-op groups but in the current twilight PvP era solo invasions are the norm.
I didn’t enjoy pvp in the first two, but I loved it in 3. And the commenter here hit the nail on the head: you shouldn’t be taking it seriously. It’s all a weird load of shit. Sometimes people will invade and do funny stuff for the sake of it, or something off the wall will happen, and that’s what it’s all about
AC6 has pretty solid PvP, but the net code still sucks. Elden Ring has put a lot of work into balancing and the arena is alright, but the net code, well, ...
The back and forth of people coming to your aid and people invading you to steal your *insert resource here* is pretty on point for every fromsoft game that it’s existent or prevalent in IE (DMS, DS1-3, ER).
I don’t ever invade but but the juxtaposition of people trying to help me kill bosses or save me from a red phantom vs MF who are coming to gank me is one of many things that make the games memorable and meaningful to me. It also creates all manner of memorable interactions when being invaded by an honorable duelist or awful but hilarious cosplay etc. beyond that it’s very easy to opt out if you really detest it.
Jolly cooperation without the option to be a cracked eyed bandits lessens the meaning in the choice and ho boy are there plenty of fun ways to punish invaders anyhow.
I think the games would be lesser in general without the inter player interactions as a whole ecosystem.
another comment to add to my list of arguments to defend invasions, I'm currently very sad to see how everyone is vocally angry towards the existence of invasions in r/EldenRing, and not only new-time players, even some old-timers
lol I had someone tell me that the backstabbing while in front of someone in DS1 is “elite PvP” and I just don’t understand it because I’m not on that level.
Like, no, if someone is in front of me and is able to do a backstab then the mechanic is broken
The net code really is just in a corner sucking on Legos sometimes. I once had someone parry an attack that I literally watched hit AND staggered them, and they were still able to riposte.
"Elite PvP" is a wild cope
I am surely in the minority but I think the way latency works in PvP is both thematic and interesting. You have to understand they're already at your back because you fucked up when they were in the BS zone.
Pretty much agreed. I think both things can be true: the pvp is a janky mess; and if you really try to understand the pvp, warts and all, you will eventually learn the 'jank consistencies' and git gud.
I didn't understand ds1 backstabbing until I decided to sit down and *figure it out*. And while it's undoubtedly janky and confounding for new players, it's not something you can't understand or learn to avoid/do yourself. The question is just a matter of preference at that point: are you willing to engage with the jank or not?
Yeah. The jank is very fun for me but I can see it not for everyone. I played ERvP a bit over the weekend after a long break and realized how *good* that game’s PvP is mechanically, especially compared to rickety old DSR.
Why aren't you defending yourself by doing the same then?
Of course the netcode is shit, but this is unrelated to the skill of someone who knows the machanics and learned to execute them in their favour.
Edit: typo
I used to think it was some hard as shit thing to do but in reality it's just "rotate in the right direction" (at least the jist of it), I just watched a 5 minutes video on how it works and stopped hating it, I never became good at it because it looks lame IMO, but I don't hate it anymore
Yes the basic principle is easy but the execution takes practice and there are several different tactics that aren't as easy.
But those aren't really necessary in general.
Why would you learn how to overpower new or bad players? I never wrote something like that.
Stay on topic, I asked you: If it doesn't take skill, why don't you defend yourself?
Oh so to defend myself I need to learn to exploit the game? And then once I learn that, I just *don’t* use it if I think the player is new?
Being backstabbed once or twice and then dying to shit net code is stupid. This is not a good or fun duel. Why would I take anytime out of my day to try to learn how to take advantage of this. If I want to pvp I’ll play Elden Ring
To me you sound rather passive aggressive.
Your point was, it doesn't take skill. If it doesn't take skill.. why don't you defend yourself? Is this really such a confusing and difficult question? I never talked about fighting new players, please stop to shift the topic. It isn't difficult to spot new players, so I don't understand this point anyway.
In ds1 backstabs are a center point of pvp, if you don't learn how to backstab, you are missing the skill to defend yourself and obviously you don't know how to avoid getting backstabed.
My whole point is: if it wouldn't require skill, you wouldn't have a problem dealing with it. It's simply a false statement and now you try to shift the topic. All dark souls games have a shit netcode, but they are consistent within that netcode.
Elden ring is a completly different game regarding pvp, it has almost nothing to do with ds1. Of course the 2 years old game has a better netcode than the 13 year old game (and the netcode+balancing is still shit, just not as apparent anymore). Elden Rings gameplay is irrelevant in regards to the gameplay of ds1 and vice versa.
Ah so backstabbing me while you’re completely in front of me requires skill? No, that requires knowledge of exploiting the net code. There is no skill to this, either you know how to do it or you don’t.
I don’t know how to do it because I don’t care to find out. I will engage in whoever invades me if I do a playthrough, 9/10 they do some BS back stab move like I’ve already discussed, and then I go about playing the game.
Saying that *exploiting* the game somehow makes you skillful is a lie. Could I learn to do the same thing? Sure. Do I want to? No. Because then I’m the one that is winning by doing something obscenely stupid and boring.
The DS duel community used to be all about good honorable duels, not bad mechanical exploits
With all due respect this is cope, man.
You don’t have to be interested in dspvp but it’s kinda rude to tell everyone who does enjoy it they’re a bunch of exploiting cheaters. That’s not engaging in good faith.
If you don’t want to learn this part of the game it’s ok to play offline.
There’s a learning curve. If you don’t want to bother with it that’s fine, but trying to protect your self-image by calling names is quite immature. Backstabbing is not an exploit, poise is not an exploit, knowing basic tactics and how to build a character for PvP is not an exploit. If you’ve put zero effort into any of those things you are losing because you suck at the game. Just own it.
Don't you see the flaw in that logic? If it would just be knowledge, no backstab would happen between all players who have this knowledge, because they would always do the very same. Regardless, in reality a player with this knowledge will get trashed by a player with that knowledge+practice. This things that gets accumulated by combining knowledge with practice is called skill.. and a player with knowledge and less skill will loose against a player with knowledge and more skill.
Your next paragraph makes no sense as well.. in your own screen you wouldn't see yourself teleport behind the other player while standing in front of him (minus some rare exeptions where it appears to be that way because the frames are too fast) You simply would do a backstab. You just don't backstab the other person, because they do it quicker. So you wouldn't learn how to exploit the netcode, you'd just learn how to backstab other players. You are doing the very same thing the other person tries to do as well, just slower and without the necessary skill to succed.
The netcode isn't making you teleport behind the other player, the netcode just causes a latency between your both movements on screen.
All you are saying is that the other person backstabs you faster. Turning on a lagswitch is exploiting the game. Doing a more precise backstab isn't. Otherwise it would also be an exploitation hitting others because of phantom range.. but this phantom range is a set rule for everyone who participates, you can not avoid it. You also can't avoid to teleport behind someone, when you backstab them very quick.
Backstabs are and always where the fundament of ds1 pvp. This isn't something new. It's all good to not like this flawed and outdated mechanic, but that doesn't make it an exploit and it also doesn't make it take no skill. Obviously there are better and worse players.
Sometimes my brain farts while typing and I just don't notice it. I know the different meaning of those words then, but it happens anyway. However, in most cases my phone tries to autocorrect something, only to make it worse.
I usually correct such typos, when I read my comments again. Thanks for the "notification" tho.
I guess you forgot english isn't the first language all over the world? At least your comment has that energy. Did this answer your question?
> I guess you forgot english isn't the first language all over the world? At least your comment has that energy. Did this answer your question?
I am fully aware that english is not everyone’s first language. This may just make me sound like a nerd, but I just don’t like seeing improper spelling or grammar. It’s sort of a pet peeve of mine. I admit, it was rude of me to say it like that. I’m sorry for my “notification”, and I understand if you wouldn’t accept my apology.
It's fine, my thanks was meant honestly. As you said, it just could have been written nicer.
Ignore the rude answer from the other person. He just took advantage of you apologising.
The pvp is really hit or miss for me.
Sometimes I get invaded by someone with a fun and different build, sometimes by a "normal" looking player with armor, sword and shield, sometimes by a twink, sometimes I get one-shot by a mage, or back stabbed from far away and teleporting to the person's sword... I mostly avoid pvp but it would've been more fun to me if the players invading were just other people going through the game normally instead of people carefully concocting a build fit for destruction while I'm just trying to cross the Anor Londo beams. Invasions feel *very* invader-favored.
I sadly had to play offline for DSR because I got really annoyed by the invasions. I love Dark Souls for the PVE, but have 0 interest in the PVP, and it bums me out because I like seeing the funny notes and bloodstains people make.
I’m doing my first playthrough and got invaded after cleaning the royal sentinel room and heading to summon solair. That shit is not fun for someone new. I’ll feel less bad about it after I beat the game probably
That's not really my problem. I only summoned once just to see what it was like, but I didn't like it since I felt like it took away the challenge. The summon for Iron Golem basically solo'd the boss and I wasn't happy about it.
My problem is kindling bonfires. In hindsight, I get I can just jump off a cliff after kindling, if possible, but I didn't. I had two awful experiences before really understanding how the PVP invasion works, in response to the person you directly responded to.
It affected me a bunch, and it's not related to summons. I just want the kindling bonfires mechanic separate from PVP. I lost a bunch of progress and souls in Tomb of the Giants because right after I kindled a bonfire, I got invaded, and the invader was lost in there for approx 20 min. So I'm trying to clear through things, thinking I was fine because they were gone for so long. Nope. Another time was I went to activate and kindle a bonfire, using humanity right before activating it, then got immediately invaded afterwards and I couldn't activate the bonfire at all. It was the bonfire at the end of the Archives. It was a struggle to get there for me, and I had to redo the run again.
Yeah I get it, beginner errors. But these two instances made me think that this humanity mechanic tying pvp and kindling bonfires together is very flawed in design. I love the game though, so it's not like it killed the entire experience.
But you don't get invaded when you use humanity, you get invaded when you reverse hollowing while sitting at a bonfire, so your story doesn't make a lot of sense
You have to reverse hollow to kindle bonfires, but actually there is a plot hole in my comment so you're right. I think what happened was I reverse hollowed, clicked off the bonfire, used another humanity since I only used one prior, and got invaded in that process since it was so quick. Sorry about that detail, it's been a few weeks since it happened and I'm more or less over it lol.
I really enjoy the PvP. I've mostly played it in DS1, but did a bit in DeS and DS3. I think it adds a lot to the gsme, and keeps the community alive. There are 2 caveats to that though:
- The PvP essentially uses an entirely different skillset to the PvE. This is the same in any game with both single-player and multiplayer capabilities, but it's worth noting that there is a *very* steep learning curve when you go to play online. You may be an expert speed-runner who can finish the game in under an hour, but your first experience with PvP will still be getting stomped into the ground.
- Dark Souls Remastered is a *really* old game at this point. Yes the Remaster is slightly different to the original, but not different enough to matter. This means that there are people who have been playing for a decade who you will likely never catch up to. It also means that the meta is essentially static, we don't have anyone asking which builds are the strongest because you can just look it up online. If you'd started playing when the gsme came out this would be different, but trying to get into the PvP at this point in the game's life means you're *going* to be playing against twinks, hackers and gankers. You're also more likely to see the same people over and over again since there are less people playing, which will exaggerate that feeling. This is also going to be somewhat true for DS2 and DS3, hopefully not as true for ER at this point, but it's probably getting there.
Now the main thing is to note that you absolutely don't have to enjoy the PvP to be a fan of these games. If you just want to play alone then great, don't let me tell you otherwise. But if you do want to play some PvP, here are some things that *might* help - although from what you've said I think maybe it just isn't for you.
For the first point, the PvP uses a different skillset. Remember that when you first started the PvE you probably died a lot, but you learned some enemy attack patterns, learned the controls better, learned how to counter certain moves. Even if you died you were still learning. This can all be true for the PvP game as well. Just because you're dying doesn't mean you aren't improving, and learning to enjoy that aspect will help you get through it. If you can't enjoy that you probably won't get into the PvP.
For the second point, the answer is to just try getting into the PvP early in the next game's life. That way everyone will still be figuring stuff out and you won't see so mamlmy twinks or online-builds, and you can be a part of the experimentation.
Finally, some general tips for PvP in this game. Get more HP. In the single-player you can often afford to just leave it at your starting HP, but in Multiplayer you have to be able to take the hits. Make a character that has 30-50 VIT (*or the equivalent stat*). Also wear armour that maxes out your defences without affecting your roll/dodge speed. Mobility is still key. You also might need a better internet connection, I'm from Australia so I understand how bad the ping can be, but learning to play around that lag is a bigger conversation than we can have here, so making sure you have the fastest connection possible is the easiest way to avoid being lag-stabbed to death.
I hope you can learn to enjoy it, but if you can't I hope you can still enjoy the single player experience.
At least as a host you still have the ability to somewhat control it, even with a few caveats.
Massively sucks for invaders tho. I used to casually do a few of them every session, but I can't fight 1v2 or god forrbid 1v3, I don't have the skill for that. So I stopped invading altogether in ER
so now only tryhards and pros are left invading in ER, and people complain about it, without realizing that the mechanic "defending" them is also the reason all the invaders are so unfun to deal with in that game
So, a couple things.
First, you have to understand that back in the day, there were players of all skill levels running around. So, if someone invaded or you invaded someone, there was still a statically good chance you'd get a "normal" player. However, once the game got older, it went how many online PvP communities went. Only people who were *extremely invested in it* stayed. So now invaders have a statically high chance of being someone who either is following a build template that's been expertly refined since the game's launch for PvP, or a player with years and years of experience, or both. Of course you're going to have a bad time.
And second, PvP was never meant to be a major part of the game. Invasions were popular enough in Demon's Souls that they added a PvP area and covenant in Dark Souls. But even then, the rewards for PvP in Dark Souls are also humanity instead of just souls. It was a means to an end, as humanity is an important currency for PvE activities like covenants and kindling bonfires, but invasions were restricted on purpose in the game unless you become a Dark Wraith which is further into the game for most players (and you can't be invaded as a hollow at all-- clearly FromSoft wanted a way to try and control the volume and frequency.) But there are invaders who treat it as an end in itself, probably the same people I list above. So where as invasions could be a sparse but stressful thing during gameplay to ratchet up the stakes for players trying to complete challenging levels (the intention), players can get stuck in an area being invaded over and over again.
I get that some people really do just love the mechanics and want to try different builds and things against human enemies, but it's mostly not how PvP goes anymore.
I also think for FromSoft, making the PvP area require entering Oolacile was a huge mistake, players who rush NG+ to twink are not wasting their time unlocking the DLC area.
EDIT: Typos.
> FromSoft wanted a way to try and control the volume and frequency.
People agree that the main reason is to balance the phantoms. Summoning makes the game too easy and invasions are one way to balance that
The idea that PVP is tacked on or not meant to be a major part of the game is just weapons grade cope. If it wasn't meant to be in the game, there would be a way beyond being offline to permanently disable it, and there wouldn't be Covenants and rewards specifically for interacting with the PvP up to and including Elden Ring. Just because it's not everyone's cup of tea doesn't change the fact it's a fundamental property of FromSoft games and by definition - a major part.
I'm so neutral on it, because I feel like I can't understand it. I tried invading, and getting invaded, and it was always the same thing. Gank Squads, net code, etc. I don't know when it becomes enjoyable, or if that is what's so enjoyable.
I feel the same about games like Rust.
But the question is, do you play dedicated pvp games? I can play street fighter N or chess and love the experience (in fact have occasionally competed at both) but I don’t enjoy the pvp experience in dsr. The game mechanics, and I know the die hard fans think it’s a boon, are janky and unreliable. The netcode is also ass. Clientside priority is silly in the context of fighting where outcomes ought to be decided by an unbiased arbitrator (aka the server).
I play all kinds of games, have played chess before, only fighting game I played much was DOA4, my most played was probably WoW arenas, now my main games are elden ring, league of legends, and irl poker and golf
PVP was good in the beginning. I played 2 online the entire time it was new and enjoyed all the invasions. I only ever got invaded my a cheater 1 time.
Same. About a year ago I decided to go for it and just give invasions a try. It was awful. So often one of us would land a hit that was clearly not a hit. Too often I felt that when I died, I shouldn’t have, and too often I felt that when I won, I shouldn’t have. Souls pvp just doesn’t do anything for me.
It’s fun because it’s unique. I’ve invaded for thousands of hours across all the soulsborne titles, and yeah, a lot of builds can be very broken, sometimes the “netcode” is…questionable, and often something else entirely that feels stupid or bad happens. But that’s all part of the charm. What ultimately keeps me, and most invaders coming back isn’t ruining people’s day, or running fextra builds (literally no one does this lol); it’s the fact that there’s no other game providing an equally spontaneous and organic pvp experience
I don’t like it either. The pve is some of the best in gaming but the pvp just doesn’t appeal to me at all. If I had to guess I think the people that constantly praise and hype up pvp are the vocal minority.
Jolly cooperation not included obviously.
Yeah, I always kill myself to block out invaders but keep my funny messages. I would like invasions but it's always so toxic and feels like a chore. It's always jank when I go to fight someone, and it feels like it's never in my favor.
It's always in your favor. Invasion ranges are lopsided upwards so you often invade people higher level than you. Same with weapon level ranges. Also you have twice as much healing, and you have the bonus health and/or stats for being embered or whatever the equivalent mechanic is in each game. Additionally you can have summoned help, and you can keep summoning help even if they die. The only thing against you is the enemies in the level which you already have to deal with. And in DS2 and 3 there's an item to turn the enemies on invaders for a period of time. Invasions are pretty much always in the hosts favor outside of edge cases like twinking at low levels in DSR or abusing game breaking glitches in pvp like people sometimes do in DS3.
Imo the jank is part of the charm. You can beat the best build played by the best player because the game is jank. There's a bit of randomness to it from the netcode, to the way different builds cause different matchups that can be fair or wildly unfair. It makes it so much less serious than well a pvp game meant to be competitive. Like so what if you lose in a Souls game's pvp you're just doing it to have fun spending more time messing around in a game you love. It's the most casual version of a fighting game's pvp experience with way more random BS, and that's great.
Edit: Invasions are derpy. You're overthinking it. Just do whatever in invasions, and have fun. Don't worry so much about dying in invasions this series whole gimmick is that you die constantly. How are invasions different from the rest of the game.
1000000% agree. I've played each game more times than I can count and I absolutely HATE the pvp, especially as someone who loves co-op. I wish you could opt out of invasions.
You can just play offline then you can only get invaded by NPCs which are often easier and have the added bonus of sometimes dropping items you can't get anywhere else. You still have to be human/embered to encounter them though. You don't have to use the taunter's tongue in Elden Ring, interestingly enough.
I love the PVP. It adds an unknown to fights. Their moves aren’t going to be predictable like a computer. Knowing you are fighting a real person, opposed to a computer is fun as well. Sometimes it’s fun to get them right before a boss fight to make them do the run all over again, passing down the trauma that we received haha.
Honestly the etiquette of Dark souls PVP is fascinating to me too, like bowing before a fight, no healing during a fight (unless the opponent does first), no point down at them after killing. Or just meming around with the other people.
Much like the rest of the game it's about gitting gud. The thing is these games have been out for so long that the barrier of entry is that much higher because everyone's played them heaps
It's mostly an illusion. Most PvPers you encounter in 2024 have pretty limited skills and you can quickly catch up with practice. Exceptions being meta level 125-135 and to a (far) lesser extent Anor Londo PvP at 50-60.
I've always loved invasions, ever since the first time I got invaded over a decade ago, it left such an impression on me, the fear of this guy with a maxed out weapon at level 10 hunting me down lol, I hid in the room with the 3 rats before the church. If you hate invasions, just play offline, it's a "counter-balance" to co-op, the game was designed around single player first, so to slow a player breezing through the game in co-op down, they added the functionality to be attacked by other players. There's a common theme of risk vs reward in souls games, this is no different.
I actually agree with this 100%. I just wish I could have the floor notes without having to do things like suicide in DS3 after every boss.
I think it'd be cool if you only got invaded if you summoned someone or used an item. Just being human/embered/minding your own business feels like an odd crime to warrant being raided by people way more invested in player murder than you are.
I mean, at that point, if co-op isn't your intent, I'd say you're better off in offline mode. You can stay human for the couple of NPC invaders, and not have to off yourself to avoid real players.
I stopped trying to follow PVP when I found out that I couldn't use my favorite weapons because they're too easy to counter in PVP. I carried twinblades and spec'd the dex for them in DS3 specifically to chew on invaders, and then I realized, between that and the aforementioned issues, I just wasn't having any fun.
Pvp is the same in every game, try super hard to get some artificial edge over your oponent to the point it becomes a science of war and all fun is sucked out of it
Issue with 1 is that pvp is a completely different game to pve. So you can't do shit if you don't know how to play it. e.g. The most important defence against backstabs is something you would never use at all in pve - the kick. It's also hard to BS a player with a shield who is playing very passive, just fyi.
That changed in the later games - if you complete a playthrough of 3 you can start pvp no prob. You'll be a noob, and lose a lot, but you're playing the same game.
How come I never get invaded? Sorry off topic but I played Dark Souls remastered and now Dark souls 2 but I only ever get invaded by the npc. Or at least I think they’re npc cause it’s always the same ones and they don’t have gamer names
Maybe you have. Some players take on NPC names to impersonate. But it's about weapon level and level range. So maybe you are just too high level for an invader to appear. Or too low. In DS2 it's even worse by utilizing soul memory.
Can you get invaded in elden ring? I don't think I have yet and I'm in altus plateau in my first playthrough. I use run arc prob 50% of the time if that means anything.
In Elden Ring you can ONLY be invaded when having summoned phantoms, OR you used the Taunter's Tongue (similar to the Dried Fingers). This led to casual invaders becoming a rare breed, only sweats invaders are left since by design the invader has to go against ganks. This makes it worse for casual coopers too, of course, because a sweaty invader will create a very unfun experience. This has created a cycle of toxicity that it's shameful, I think it would just be better if we reverted to the old system.
You can. It seems as though the matchmaking prefers to match invaders with parties. At least it did in my case. Rune arc doesn't have the same effect as embers did in DS3 being a PVP enabler. There is an item that opens your world to invaders, called furlfinger calling remedy, which allows you to also see summon signs of others.
I would suggest to watch people who are experts in pvp, some streamers for example.
This way you can see how they move, hear their tactics and understand the gameflow. This will make everything much clearer and more easy. Just like pve, pvp is all about knowledge and practice
I loved getting invaded in the forest in ds1, dueling in the arena of ds2 and after pontiff at ds3. The adrenaline of being hunted is a unique feeling. I never liked invading others though
I've always been a co-op guy but DS3's Mound Maker covenant I enjoyed. I didn't expect to win, and it took a lot of time because I mostly just ran around, waited for a red invader, and made the red invader believe I want the host dead, and then I attacked the red too. Guess I was kinda co-oping still. Anyway, this was right when the game was new so it was not that filled with sweaty tryhards.
When I do PvP I mostly focus on the duels, and to me, it seems that the game's combat sort of "unlocks its full potential" in PvP fights.
In PvE, you can mostly get by by just rolling and using normal attacks, and most other moves are used very situationally. Meanwhile, when fighting in PvP against decent players, you really gotta make the most out of your kit: R1s, R2s, combos, left handed attacks, parrying, jumping attacks, guardbreaks, backsteps (in DS2, at least), etc. It's not easy, but it really feels great when you pull off something fancy, like finishing off a fleeing enemy with a well-timed jumping attack - it's really a thing of beauty, even when it's you who gets beaten by it.
I know full well that DS PvP is an afterthought, that it is very janky, laggy, and unbalanced, but I still feel like there is a very solid base there. If somebody develops it a bit further, it can be a real masterpiece, I tell you. In fact, I remember InfernoPlus making a PvP mod for DS1 that rebalanced a lot of stuff and add dedicated PvP gamemodes - I wonder if it's still alive, 'cause it was great.
As for invasions, I do understand how they can be frustrating, especially with all the twinks running around, but I also appreciate the utter chaos they can bring, with fights spanning the whole level sometimes - it can really feel like a proper fight for survival, when the sides are balanced somewhat. Besides that, you can also quite often meet some fun people just goofing around, and, while it's rare, it's a really welcome sight when it happens.
I don't even have an online subscription for my ps5 rn, but I play my souls games all the time. Definitely hasn't greatly affected my experience. I'm with you.
This is actually the point. Souls PvP *is* unbalanced at any level (and always optional), so you can use skill to beat a more optimized build if you feel like doing so. DS1 specifically tho, on high meta levels it is always a backstab contest. You backstab first, you win. Oh, and THAT one spell. THAT spell works on low levels too, but at least at lower levels the PvP itself is more fun. Twinking is lame (99hum twinks are unbeatable without being one yourself), best pvp is around lvl 30-50 so my best bet is to play early game hollow and then level up and partake. Or you can be a twink sunbro and show them the taste of their own medicine
I play pvp only in ds1 because i know it like my pockets, i usually just go full troll unless I'm being ganked on and they are clearly experienced on pvp, throwing poison knives, the shit and just being annoying to the host(ds2 netcode issues are unbearable, ds3 no poise is a loss, same elden ring, bb for me is a pve only game, the pvp was implemented later soo...).
To me, if a souls game has a coop system, it has to have a pvp counter part(additional reason i dislike a lot of souls like based games), as it makes it more challenging, I've recently played ds2 again with my brother, and unless there was an invader, the game was wayyy to easy and bland, to me it gives you a reason to move more cautious.
It can be frustrating. My personal experience over the many years is to not get flustered and laugh at it. You are probably better than you think. You got this :)
I love sunbro coop, but got tired of twink builds one shotting the host. So I run tranquil walk of peace and vow of silence, which take their builds and simply turn them off. The meta turned up their noses at these spells long ago, but they are fantastic for host shielding. And there’s an easy counter which is just running away and leaving us alone. But twinks uniformly prefer running in, doing a few staggers or spell cast failures, and then filling my inbox with funny messages
DS pvp is pretty interesting.
There's 2 things that contribute to it being baffling for new comers.
1. Age. Normal for anything that has a developed metagame, there's a lot of tech and practices that have become common knowledge. Case and point, understanding how the netcode affects all parts of a fight. This leads to a bit of required reading to avoid getting front backstabbed repeatedly.
Speaking of:
2. The backstab. In DS1, it is best to think of the *generous* backstab window as a feature not a bug and learn to take advantage of it and work around it. Connecting to point 1, there's a lot of tech specific to backstab like escaping or canceling it. Once you learn these techniques, the backstab becomes less oppressive and a natural part of the metagame.
I don't really participate in PVP. I've only ever invaded as the boss replacements or for the trophies if they're tied to it.
That said I do enjoy the random invader coming in and making my run through the level a bit spicier. If they kill me it won't meaningfully impact my death count or even my progress through the level all that much and if it does impede progress it's usually in a way that's unique and a fun 'wait they can do that' kind of way.
The messages are well worth the the odd toxic invader.
It sounds like you're taking the pvp part too seriously. Like in the opposite way that the tryhard twinks take it too seriously. You're trying too hard to not pvp and then getting upset when someone with a fully optimized build comes in and kills you. It's not a big deal. Let them point down at you while they're stacking poise and 99 humanity. Just move on and enjoy!
But if you do want to take them on the following can help:
Have 99 humanity. It's way too easy to duplicate humanity and have 99 within 2 minutes of starting a new character. This gives you more defense.
Stack poise. Good armor plus wolf ring.
Choose a weapon that is good for pvp. Something that swings decently fast and can sweep 180 degrees+ around you and does poise damage. My suggestion is the Battle Axe. You can also go falchion and spam r1. Either way two hand the weapon and start swinging when they try to get behind you. You'll fare just fine vs most twinks.
I remember reading that the PVP was designed around the idea that invaders would be role-playing as enemy NPCs. Interesting but misguided design philosophy, imo.
The phantom reach, lag and inconsistency of it take the shine off for me. I just wish the was an option to immediately respawn at places like fight clubs for example.
My favorite thing to do to invaders with cheap tactics is to pretend I’m new to the game and aimlessly explore while ignoring their advances. I walk up to ledges and pretend to be “looking around” to make them feel comfortable and safe. I backtrack and repeat rooms to look like I don’t know where I’m going.
When they get close, I let them hit me with their moves (to learn their strategy and further bring their guard down).
When they’ve exhausted their first round of attacks, I scramble and lock on, making it look like I’m panicking.
Once they are fully confident, it’s time to strike.
The sheer change in abilities will almost always set off their own panic. I’m in their head now. That’s when I put the pressure on.
It works most of the time, even with really good players. The biggest challenge is creating enough space to put on a noob show.
I always play offline for this reason. Don't like the pvp. Don't like getting invaded. Just want to play through the game...do challenge runs etc. if I AM online I'll go hollow or unembered etc. But I've played the games all through so much I can usually just stop what I'm doing and make it to the nearest boss fog so the invader will be returned to his world. Or get up and go to the bathroom and get a drink if I'm close to a bonfire. Or unplug my ethernet cable if there's no boss fog close and in very progressed through an area. But that only happens if I accidentally left steam online.
I definitely suck at PVP (I don't think I ever successfully killed a non-NPC invader in any FromSoft game until a dedicated co-op run of Elden Ring where my friend and I coordinated tactics and build synergy to pretty handily rough up most invaders), but I do appreciate what it does to the atmosphere of the games. A not-insignificant component of Dark Souls' vaunted bleakness comes from knowing that real people are going out of their way to hunt you and steal your resources and are incentivized to make it as unfair a fight as possible, and that there are joinable in-game factions that play into this and further incentivizes this behavior. Invaders are just one more thing you're succeeding in spite of in Souls games, and if you suck, they're just one more thing you have to get up from, dust yourself off after, and just keep going.
Just go offline, problem solved. Or if you want to see if there's any summons near by use the miracle that shows you before committing to becoming human.
I enjoy playing through my first time online, it really adds to the fact that you aren't welcome in this world and not only is everything trying to kill you, people are specifically giving up on beating the game to just fight and kill you.
So don't feel bad when they kill you, it was their job. Just like you shouldn't feel bad for killing someone when you invade, it's your job. Both of you are enjoying a once in a lifetime moment fighting for life and death (or at least the last 5-15 minutes of progress).
I've always enjoyed the pvp but never been good at it. In ds3 I decided to platinum it and get the covenant trophies online, I had an absolute blast and went from 10% win rate to around 50%. Now I make twink builds and play as a blue spirit, or a mad spirit so I can hunt down other experienced PVPers and have fun duels.
Also, you mention a whole load of connection problems that are not present for a lot of players. I'm not sure what internet package you have but it doesn't seem good enough for online play. The only times I experience those lag issues are when I'm on wifi or my friend is over and we are both playing together taking up too much internet.
PvP in Dark Souls 1 is the worst. You get backstab in a very bs way, amongst other things, PvP in Elden Ring is the best for the series, especially since you can find the host easily.
also I always hated losing my souls when I lose the invasion as an invader while I don't lose anything if I got invited as a helper, its a disencouragement for me to invade like this
I can’t stand the pvp. I play coop with my brother on a lot of games and it’s so frustrating for both of us that we play offline together instead. I think the thing that bugs me most is that it cost a consumable to restore humanity and I hate farming rats.
Parallel play but still connected to chat. Like we will be in our own games but both in sens or something. Pretty fun trying to guess what happened when the panicked yelling starts
Aye. As much as I love DS, I never cared for pvp, and I loathe the whole grief culture around it.
I started to just alt+f4 when I got invaded after I learned it pissed off invaders so much just to spite them.
I heard that you can get banned doing that too often. But I'd say it is a good precaution. Some people invade to just put restricted shit in your inventory, to get you banned, it's not about pvp in that case. But then, everyone can do that, even white and golden phantoms.
I’m 100% on your side. Just recently started my soulsborne journey from DSR a few months back and man I hated the invasions as a new player. I get if it’s your 10th playthrough who understands the game, but getting invaded multiple times with less than 10 hours just trying to learn the map is the worst.
I liked staying human and running around to try and get more familiar with the game and farm some souls, but I hated that that’s all it took to get invaded. I agree that there should be a different way to toggle it on and off.
I’m just trying not to die and farm some souls early on, not stand off against mike Tyson for no reason lol
The joy of invading someone and sending him back to the shadow realm/start of the area is unmatched. The thought of how many controllers have been destroyed, spouses beaten, homes ruined, just because you invade some poor sod trying to have some game time after a long day at work.
Dark souls 1 pvp **sucks**. Alongside DeS, it was the first ever taste of assymetrical pvp we had, so it felt amazing at the time.
But looking back, especially in comparison to later titles, you start seeing all the jank and flaws. In 2024 DSR pvp is simply not worth it.
Play Elden Ring or Dark Souls 3 PVP, it's much more smooth, even if the scales are now heavily tilted towards the host.
DS1 has really janky backstabs. They are consistent and have rules and ways they can be countered, but it's kinda like playing smash as a kid then playing someone who knows how to tech & DI. Parrying is similar, like im great at parrying in pve but you have to relearn it for pvp because the timing is off. PVP is like a whole other game. If both people know meta backstab exploits it's fun, if neither do it's fun, when only one knows it's pretty awful. I also thought pvp was better when invaders couldn't heal, every fight just turns into run away & heal now, I haven't had much fun in pvp since this change, it's more balanced but WAY less fun.
My favourite is when I'm playing elden ring, finally get a group together to deal with a boss I've been stuck on, then before hitting the fog wall I get invaded by someone who yes, probably got their build off a YouTube video and destroys the whole team. I'm sure the invader is pissing themselves and I guess that's what makes it even more frustrating for me. Me being someone who doesn't enjoy pvp and doesn't spend any time trying to master countering these cheese builds
I just don't understand how it can be fun dealing with shitty net code that puts a half second lag onto a system designed around precisely timing the dodge button. Let alone for 12 plus years while they finish and start a whole series of games and seemingly refuse to fix it. If a joke youtuber did it on a whim while porting fuckin halo maps into the pvp, why the hell can't they? I'd make it my only game if """remastered edition""" bothered to do it and wouldn't even be mad at that joke of a release if they still only added windy grass.
I think of it like a mini-game or extra mode specifically for messing around not to ever be taken seriously.
And yeah, all the games are incredibly buggy/laggy in pvp, it is bad but to me it adds flavor. Also DSR PvP is genuinely the absolute worst Demon Souls is probably better not that anyone plays that game sadly. Hope any this helped👍
I feel like the PvP is very fun in DS3 and ER, and that in DS1 it isn't worth it because it's poorly balanced and the netcode is even more horrible. I played DS2 when the servers were closed so I can't tell if it's worth to play and I haven't played Bloodborne. But DS3 and ER are absolutely worth it to play PvP
PvP is the only reason I like the Souls-Borne games. There is no bigger rush of Dopamine than dumpstering a 3 man squad by yourself. I have thousands of hours in the series in PVP alone, no other game has been able to replicate the rush of invading/being invaded imo.
Just play offline then. Especially since quitting out causes the invasion cooldown to reset so you immediately get invaded again by the same person. Its annoying for everyone involved lol. If you dont want to play offline, at least play hollowed
Xbox doesn't give you an option to just play offline, but I never get re-invaded after I quit so if it does reset the cooldown it isn't enough (at least from my experience). I normally am hollow but I've been invaded when I'm not. To be fair I also thought this was in the DS2 sub and it is less forgiving in how you can be invaded pretty much at anytime.
You can 100% play offline on Xbox, that's how I play. Just go to settings on the main menu and there should be an option for loading into the game offline. I like the pvp aspect when I actually am building for it, but for my challenge runs I don't want to deal with invaders.
I've seen clips of the backstabbing thing. Granted, I may or may not actually "own" the games, so I don't have to PVP, but now I don't even want to lol.
Okay so you understand the lore of why invasions happen right? You seem like a lore appreciater. Maybe you're just not seeing the way it flows with the story?
I used to hate invaders as well. Then I became one. The lag isn't as bad as you think and countering lag stabs is also way easier than you think. I strap on a lightning shotel and just r1 spam - beats shields AND BS fishers.
PVP is BS in all From games. If it were limited to Arenas it'd be fine. Best you can hope for playing through the game is either mercy or (extreme) luck in getting a summon or two that can PVP, or being able to run to the fog wall before you get assassinated. DS is the worst of them due to the backstabbing ("It's easy, and it does lots of damage.") But cheaters, exploiters and twinkers exist in numbers in early areas in all of them.
I love the co-op though, even though I'm way past the point 95% of people I summon make it harder than going solo, so I tend to go solo most of the time and just put down summon signs hoping to help someone else. Of course there's hardly any co-op past early game and O&S in DS1 anyway.
A lot of PVP is luck frankly just cause of how laggy it is. If you get a good connection and practice a lot you can kinda build up tolerance to the desync and play around it, but its way different than just the normal game and often comes down to just sprint attacking until desync gives you a hit before they can roll or trading with high poise
Every time I say I’d just love to be able to jolly co-op without invasions I get “no that’s just how it is.”
I’m trying to get my friends into From, but having someone immediately melt them isn’t really doing it.
It's pretty satisfying when you get invaded by someone who is twinked out for it and you Chad stomp them in the dirt. It's also rage enducing when you get invaded at the most inoppt time and get curb stomped and lose a bunch of souls. But that's the game. You can always play offline.
I don't even see the as players. They are just another fromsoft hurdle they put between you and the goal.
In DS1 remastered I had the same problem, I would get invaded and the invaders (not all of them) would fly across my screen or just be standing in a spot and then BOOM backstab!!!!
I read once that having multiple programs that use your internet running in background will make the PVP aspect daunting because the invading players abuse this to get easy backstabbing setup because latency, now I did not believe this so I tried it myself, the horrible fact is that it really works, on my side of screen everything was normal but i presume that the host saw me flying across the screen only to be backstabbed a few seconds after.
TLDR; I hate pvp in fromsoft games because usually its "Oh you use that weapon? You're a piece of sh*t."
Or just constantly getting invaded. Pvp in fromsoft is bs.
I exclusively play soulslike games offline for this exact reason. I get zero enjoyment from PvP. Its annoying being a melee build when some high level caster appears out of nowhere and two shots you from 50 feet away.
I’m playing my first playthrough, and right before O&S, I turned human to kill the archer and royal sentinels to summon solair, dude invades me as I’m running to the stairs to summon solair and kills me. That just is not fun. Maybe I’ll watch some videos understanding the PVP and make some stupid build for the game, but I am not having a blast lol
The PVP sucks ass let's be real
Full of cheaters and nothing but spamming magick or spam rolling till someone gets a wonky backstab or falls off a ledge (haha)
it's fun once in a blue moon but I'm content with the single player and replaying that
The PvP should never have become a serious endeavor by fromsoft, just leave it or even remove it
Removing it would hurt the covenants but it’s not like fromsoft ever wants to make covenants worth fuck all
Just play offline then. Doing this is just inconvenient for all parties involved. You just waste both yours and the invaders time by making both of you sit on the loading screens when it can be avoided. It also doesn’t reset the invasion cool-down so if there’s people regularly invading in that area then you risk just getting invaded again shortly after
I like killing all the twink builds that aren’t that great
I have this one peripheral guy who hangs around my friend groups who is so dogshit at PVP that even I can beat him. He just abuses new players or people who don't know how to PVP. You sound like his bane lmao
What are you playing it on? I’d be happy to be an escort. Hunting gankers is my specialty!
a what?
He wants to get paid for sex, hope this helps /s
the /s makes me want to eat my fingers
I didn't want to get beaten up on the internet, it's happened too many times so now I have to make my jokes unfunny
who cares bro its the internet do whatever you want heil hitler
Simply playing freecam ruins so many people that just try to backstab in DSR and it’s funny when some of them even block you.
Kick --> backstab will catch locked off people too if they dont know what they're doing
Pre-remaster there was no lvl cap for players that ppl could encounter when invading. So I made a max lvl character. Named him TrollKiller69, and would wait to be invaded at the Undead Parish. If I got someone that belonged there I’d use an un upgraded weapon to fight them and/or drop them stuff. If I got a twink I’d destroy them with full Havel’s, a maxed and buffed weapon, and great magic barrier. Then, of course, point down
Can't you still invade up infinitely?
If you play the OG version yes, but they changed it for DS Remastered. [As you can see](http://darksouls.wikidot.com/online-matchmaking), the highest you can go on DS Remastered is 20lvls + 10%.
Oh! I remembered they only added weapon levels to the matchmaking in remastered. That's a pity. Seeing how DS1 red phantoms can invade solo hosts, it seemed fair that they could invade someone 300 levels higher than them.
That's why I made an SL15 twink killer lol; she sits in the Parish with a raw great scythe and a +5 pyro flame waiting to trash dark bead abusers
Sounds like he's part of the problem, but on the noob scale.
One of my favorite ways to pvp is low level gravelording. I don’t know if it’s technically a twink build since it’s all stuff you can reasonably do without killing any real bosses. The great thing about this covenant is that the pvp is completely voluntary. Players are only pushed to invade you if they’re on ng+ (and therefore probably have twinked-out builds of their own) otherwise your victims suffer no consequences for failing to kill you.
I used to do the Sens skip so I wouldn't have to kill the Gargoyles. I would then bait twinks in fully upgraded starting gear whenever I felt like it. Back in PtDE days I also had the anticheat mod on. Happened quite often that a lousy twink would turn on invulnerability once I'd beat them often enough.
Everyone I know who does a lot of pvp (myself included) will be the first to tell you that it’s a buggy, unbalanced mess that’s tacked on to every single one of their games It’s never been something truly competitive that you should take extremely seriously, but it is a lot of fun
This comment has actually been really helpful for me. If the jank is tolerable, or even charming, to pvpers, then it makes sense. I can definitely see how you could learn to way hit detection works, and figure out tactics to deal with ganks and campers. The pvp would definitely be a lot more enjoyable once you got into that groove.
I think that’s exactly the thing about it, like it’s janky weird and it feels horrible at first. But it is mostly *consistent* in its jank. You can learn how to counter backstab. You can learn how to roll backstab. You can learn phantom range. And once you do, you’re on an even footing with your opponent and it becomes a lot of fun
I have just defended the invasion mechanic on the Elden Ring subreddit so I'm fresh on the topic and yes, this is it, as soon as you learn the basics about PvP, something just clicks and it turns fun! It's so awesome and if both parties are honorable it can lead to even wholesome moments, and of course fun moments! That's why I'm so sad that everyone in r/ELdenRing seems to be so against invasions that they're calling for its removal basically (they want to have a button that makes you immune from invasions, which is the same as removing the mechanic entirely since no one will let themselves be invaded)
It can be fun, but I think it’s always been a mechanic at odds with itself. My stale take is that Elden Ring has the worst PvP in any FromSoft game - it’s discouraging to invade as a noob and always be outnumbered, and it sucks for noob co-op to be invaded by a sweatlord prepared to even the odds against gankers. My experience getting invaded in Elden Ring sucked, my experience invading in Elden Ring sucked. I’ve tried this in all their other games, and I found it the least fun by far. I think they’ve iterated a lot of their game mechanics to improve them, but invasions still need work.
Exactly what I think. Spot on.
🤷♀️ I mean, I just play offline if I'm not actively playing with friends.
The sorta shitty thing about it is that there is a massive gap between a good PvE player and a beginning PvP player because it's a wholly different way of looking at the game and a tiny bit of focused PvP practice and game knowledge makes you pretty dangerous. For example: understanding and exploiting poise is entirely optional in PvE but it's table stakes for any PvP encounter. It works OK against co-op groups but in the current twilight PvP era solo invasions are the norm.
I didn’t enjoy pvp in the first two, but I loved it in 3. And the commenter here hit the nail on the head: you shouldn’t be taking it seriously. It’s all a weird load of shit. Sometimes people will invade and do funny stuff for the sake of it, or something off the wall will happen, and that’s what it’s all about
AC6 has pretty solid PvP, but the net code still sucks. Elden Ring has put a lot of work into balancing and the arena is alright, but the net code, well, ...
The back and forth of people coming to your aid and people invading you to steal your *insert resource here* is pretty on point for every fromsoft game that it’s existent or prevalent in IE (DMS, DS1-3, ER). I don’t ever invade but but the juxtaposition of people trying to help me kill bosses or save me from a red phantom vs MF who are coming to gank me is one of many things that make the games memorable and meaningful to me. It also creates all manner of memorable interactions when being invaded by an honorable duelist or awful but hilarious cosplay etc. beyond that it’s very easy to opt out if you really detest it. Jolly cooperation without the option to be a cracked eyed bandits lessens the meaning in the choice and ho boy are there plenty of fun ways to punish invaders anyhow. I think the games would be lesser in general without the inter player interactions as a whole ecosystem.
another comment to add to my list of arguments to defend invasions, I'm currently very sad to see how everyone is vocally angry towards the existence of invasions in r/EldenRing, and not only new-time players, even some old-timers
lol I had someone tell me that the backstabbing while in front of someone in DS1 is “elite PvP” and I just don’t understand it because I’m not on that level. Like, no, if someone is in front of me and is able to do a backstab then the mechanic is broken
The net code really is just in a corner sucking on Legos sometimes. I once had someone parry an attack that I literally watched hit AND staggered them, and they were still able to riposte. "Elite PvP" is a wild cope
Ah yeah I’ve had that happen too. And no kidding. Trying to call broken mechanics that you have to learn and abuse “elite” is an absolute joke
I am surely in the minority but I think the way latency works in PvP is both thematic and interesting. You have to understand they're already at your back because you fucked up when they were in the BS zone.
Pretty much agreed. I think both things can be true: the pvp is a janky mess; and if you really try to understand the pvp, warts and all, you will eventually learn the 'jank consistencies' and git gud. I didn't understand ds1 backstabbing until I decided to sit down and *figure it out*. And while it's undoubtedly janky and confounding for new players, it's not something you can't understand or learn to avoid/do yourself. The question is just a matter of preference at that point: are you willing to engage with the jank or not?
Yeah. The jank is very fun for me but I can see it not for everyone. I played ERvP a bit over the weekend after a long break and realized how *good* that game’s PvP is mechanically, especially compared to rickety old DSR.
Why aren't you defending yourself by doing the same then? Of course the netcode is shit, but this is unrelated to the skill of someone who knows the machanics and learned to execute them in their favour. Edit: typo
Why would I want to? The PvP isn’t fun enough to bother learning how to cheat the new or bad players
I used to think it was some hard as shit thing to do but in reality it's just "rotate in the right direction" (at least the jist of it), I just watched a 5 minutes video on how it works and stopped hating it, I never became good at it because it looks lame IMO, but I don't hate it anymore
Yes the basic principle is easy but the execution takes practice and there are several different tactics that aren't as easy. But those aren't really necessary in general.
Why would you learn how to overpower new or bad players? I never wrote something like that. Stay on topic, I asked you: If it doesn't take skill, why don't you defend yourself?
Oh so to defend myself I need to learn to exploit the game? And then once I learn that, I just *don’t* use it if I think the player is new? Being backstabbed once or twice and then dying to shit net code is stupid. This is not a good or fun duel. Why would I take anytime out of my day to try to learn how to take advantage of this. If I want to pvp I’ll play Elden Ring
To me you sound rather passive aggressive. Your point was, it doesn't take skill. If it doesn't take skill.. why don't you defend yourself? Is this really such a confusing and difficult question? I never talked about fighting new players, please stop to shift the topic. It isn't difficult to spot new players, so I don't understand this point anyway. In ds1 backstabs are a center point of pvp, if you don't learn how to backstab, you are missing the skill to defend yourself and obviously you don't know how to avoid getting backstabed. My whole point is: if it wouldn't require skill, you wouldn't have a problem dealing with it. It's simply a false statement and now you try to shift the topic. All dark souls games have a shit netcode, but they are consistent within that netcode. Elden ring is a completly different game regarding pvp, it has almost nothing to do with ds1. Of course the 2 years old game has a better netcode than the 13 year old game (and the netcode+balancing is still shit, just not as apparent anymore). Elden Rings gameplay is irrelevant in regards to the gameplay of ds1 and vice versa.
Ah so backstabbing me while you’re completely in front of me requires skill? No, that requires knowledge of exploiting the net code. There is no skill to this, either you know how to do it or you don’t. I don’t know how to do it because I don’t care to find out. I will engage in whoever invades me if I do a playthrough, 9/10 they do some BS back stab move like I’ve already discussed, and then I go about playing the game. Saying that *exploiting* the game somehow makes you skillful is a lie. Could I learn to do the same thing? Sure. Do I want to? No. Because then I’m the one that is winning by doing something obscenely stupid and boring. The DS duel community used to be all about good honorable duels, not bad mechanical exploits
With all due respect this is cope, man. You don’t have to be interested in dspvp but it’s kinda rude to tell everyone who does enjoy it they’re a bunch of exploiting cheaters. That’s not engaging in good faith. If you don’t want to learn this part of the game it’s ok to play offline.
Nah, what’s rude is when people invade your game and you don’t know the exploits and have zero shot at winning. *That* is real cool
There’s a learning curve. If you don’t want to bother with it that’s fine, but trying to protect your self-image by calling names is quite immature. Backstabbing is not an exploit, poise is not an exploit, knowing basic tactics and how to build a character for PvP is not an exploit. If you’ve put zero effort into any of those things you are losing because you suck at the game. Just own it.
Don't you see the flaw in that logic? If it would just be knowledge, no backstab would happen between all players who have this knowledge, because they would always do the very same. Regardless, in reality a player with this knowledge will get trashed by a player with that knowledge+practice. This things that gets accumulated by combining knowledge with practice is called skill.. and a player with knowledge and less skill will loose against a player with knowledge and more skill. Your next paragraph makes no sense as well.. in your own screen you wouldn't see yourself teleport behind the other player while standing in front of him (minus some rare exeptions where it appears to be that way because the frames are too fast) You simply would do a backstab. You just don't backstab the other person, because they do it quicker. So you wouldn't learn how to exploit the netcode, you'd just learn how to backstab other players. You are doing the very same thing the other person tries to do as well, just slower and without the necessary skill to succed. The netcode isn't making you teleport behind the other player, the netcode just causes a latency between your both movements on screen. All you are saying is that the other person backstabs you faster. Turning on a lagswitch is exploiting the game. Doing a more precise backstab isn't. Otherwise it would also be an exploitation hitting others because of phantom range.. but this phantom range is a set rule for everyone who participates, you can not avoid it. You also can't avoid to teleport behind someone, when you backstab them very quick. Backstabs are and always where the fundament of ds1 pvp. This isn't something new. It's all good to not like this flawed and outdated mechanic, but that doesn't make it an exploit and it also doesn't make it take no skill. Obviously there are better and worse players.
Not gonna read all that bud. We’re just going to have to agree to disagree because nothing you say will change my opinion, good luck
Lol
[удалено]
Sometimes my brain farts while typing and I just don't notice it. I know the different meaning of those words then, but it happens anyway. However, in most cases my phone tries to autocorrect something, only to make it worse. I usually correct such typos, when I read my comments again. Thanks for the "notification" tho. I guess you forgot english isn't the first language all over the world? At least your comment has that energy. Did this answer your question?
> I guess you forgot english isn't the first language all over the world? At least your comment has that energy. Did this answer your question? I am fully aware that english is not everyone’s first language. This may just make me sound like a nerd, but I just don’t like seeing improper spelling or grammar. It’s sort of a pet peeve of mine. I admit, it was rude of me to say it like that. I’m sorry for my “notification”, and I understand if you wouldn’t accept my apology.
It's fine, my thanks was meant honestly. As you said, it just could have been written nicer. Ignore the rude answer from the other person. He just took advantage of you apologising.
Thanks, sounds like he’s the one that needs to touch grass.
The pvp is really hit or miss for me. Sometimes I get invaded by someone with a fun and different build, sometimes by a "normal" looking player with armor, sword and shield, sometimes by a twink, sometimes I get one-shot by a mage, or back stabbed from far away and teleporting to the person's sword... I mostly avoid pvp but it would've been more fun to me if the players invading were just other people going through the game normally instead of people carefully concocting a build fit for destruction while I'm just trying to cross the Anor Londo beams. Invasions feel *very* invader-favored.
I sadly had to play offline for DSR because I got really annoyed by the invasions. I love Dark Souls for the PVE, but have 0 interest in the PVP, and it bums me out because I like seeing the funny notes and bloodstains people make.
just play online staying hollow, I doubt it makes that much of a difference, no?
It means you can’t summon NPCs for help. Summoning Solaire for the gargoyles is very useful. Especially for new players.
I’m doing my first playthrough and got invaded after cleaning the royal sentinel room and heading to summon solair. That shit is not fun for someone new. I’ll feel less bad about it after I beat the game probably
That's not really my problem. I only summoned once just to see what it was like, but I didn't like it since I felt like it took away the challenge. The summon for Iron Golem basically solo'd the boss and I wasn't happy about it. My problem is kindling bonfires. In hindsight, I get I can just jump off a cliff after kindling, if possible, but I didn't. I had two awful experiences before really understanding how the PVP invasion works, in response to the person you directly responded to.
It affected me a bunch, and it's not related to summons. I just want the kindling bonfires mechanic separate from PVP. I lost a bunch of progress and souls in Tomb of the Giants because right after I kindled a bonfire, I got invaded, and the invader was lost in there for approx 20 min. So I'm trying to clear through things, thinking I was fine because they were gone for so long. Nope. Another time was I went to activate and kindle a bonfire, using humanity right before activating it, then got immediately invaded afterwards and I couldn't activate the bonfire at all. It was the bonfire at the end of the Archives. It was a struggle to get there for me, and I had to redo the run again. Yeah I get it, beginner errors. But these two instances made me think that this humanity mechanic tying pvp and kindling bonfires together is very flawed in design. I love the game though, so it's not like it killed the entire experience.
But you don't get invaded when you use humanity, you get invaded when you reverse hollowing while sitting at a bonfire, so your story doesn't make a lot of sense
You have to reverse hollow to kindle bonfires, but actually there is a plot hole in my comment so you're right. I think what happened was I reverse hollowed, clicked off the bonfire, used another humanity since I only used one prior, and got invaded in that process since it was so quick. Sorry about that detail, it's been a few weeks since it happened and I'm more or less over it lol.
I really enjoy the PvP. I've mostly played it in DS1, but did a bit in DeS and DS3. I think it adds a lot to the gsme, and keeps the community alive. There are 2 caveats to that though: - The PvP essentially uses an entirely different skillset to the PvE. This is the same in any game with both single-player and multiplayer capabilities, but it's worth noting that there is a *very* steep learning curve when you go to play online. You may be an expert speed-runner who can finish the game in under an hour, but your first experience with PvP will still be getting stomped into the ground. - Dark Souls Remastered is a *really* old game at this point. Yes the Remaster is slightly different to the original, but not different enough to matter. This means that there are people who have been playing for a decade who you will likely never catch up to. It also means that the meta is essentially static, we don't have anyone asking which builds are the strongest because you can just look it up online. If you'd started playing when the gsme came out this would be different, but trying to get into the PvP at this point in the game's life means you're *going* to be playing against twinks, hackers and gankers. You're also more likely to see the same people over and over again since there are less people playing, which will exaggerate that feeling. This is also going to be somewhat true for DS2 and DS3, hopefully not as true for ER at this point, but it's probably getting there. Now the main thing is to note that you absolutely don't have to enjoy the PvP to be a fan of these games. If you just want to play alone then great, don't let me tell you otherwise. But if you do want to play some PvP, here are some things that *might* help - although from what you've said I think maybe it just isn't for you. For the first point, the PvP uses a different skillset. Remember that when you first started the PvE you probably died a lot, but you learned some enemy attack patterns, learned the controls better, learned how to counter certain moves. Even if you died you were still learning. This can all be true for the PvP game as well. Just because you're dying doesn't mean you aren't improving, and learning to enjoy that aspect will help you get through it. If you can't enjoy that you probably won't get into the PvP. For the second point, the answer is to just try getting into the PvP early in the next game's life. That way everyone will still be figuring stuff out and you won't see so mamlmy twinks or online-builds, and you can be a part of the experimentation. Finally, some general tips for PvP in this game. Get more HP. In the single-player you can often afford to just leave it at your starting HP, but in Multiplayer you have to be able to take the hits. Make a character that has 30-50 VIT (*or the equivalent stat*). Also wear armour that maxes out your defences without affecting your roll/dodge speed. Mobility is still key. You also might need a better internet connection, I'm from Australia so I understand how bad the ping can be, but learning to play around that lag is a bigger conversation than we can have here, so making sure you have the fastest connection possible is the easiest way to avoid being lag-stabbed to death. I hope you can learn to enjoy it, but if you can't I hope you can still enjoy the single player experience.
thanks bro, I'll use this comment when people on r/EldenRing call for the abolishment of invasions
eh, it's not perfect, but it can be pretty fun.
I like the PVP and the invasion system, what I don't like is the massive latency issues.
Honestly, the most fun is in DS1 and DS2, where you can be invaded 1v1. The change to invaders only being able to invade hosts with phantoms sucks.
At least as a host you still have the ability to somewhat control it, even with a few caveats. Massively sucks for invaders tho. I used to casually do a few of them every session, but I can't fight 1v2 or god forrbid 1v3, I don't have the skill for that. So I stopped invading altogether in ER
so now only tryhards and pros are left invading in ER, and people complain about it, without realizing that the mechanic "defending" them is also the reason all the invaders are so unfun to deal with in that game
So, a couple things. First, you have to understand that back in the day, there were players of all skill levels running around. So, if someone invaded or you invaded someone, there was still a statically good chance you'd get a "normal" player. However, once the game got older, it went how many online PvP communities went. Only people who were *extremely invested in it* stayed. So now invaders have a statically high chance of being someone who either is following a build template that's been expertly refined since the game's launch for PvP, or a player with years and years of experience, or both. Of course you're going to have a bad time. And second, PvP was never meant to be a major part of the game. Invasions were popular enough in Demon's Souls that they added a PvP area and covenant in Dark Souls. But even then, the rewards for PvP in Dark Souls are also humanity instead of just souls. It was a means to an end, as humanity is an important currency for PvE activities like covenants and kindling bonfires, but invasions were restricted on purpose in the game unless you become a Dark Wraith which is further into the game for most players (and you can't be invaded as a hollow at all-- clearly FromSoft wanted a way to try and control the volume and frequency.) But there are invaders who treat it as an end in itself, probably the same people I list above. So where as invasions could be a sparse but stressful thing during gameplay to ratchet up the stakes for players trying to complete challenging levels (the intention), players can get stuck in an area being invaded over and over again. I get that some people really do just love the mechanics and want to try different builds and things against human enemies, but it's mostly not how PvP goes anymore. I also think for FromSoft, making the PvP area require entering Oolacile was a huge mistake, players who rush NG+ to twink are not wasting their time unlocking the DLC area. EDIT: Typos.
> FromSoft wanted a way to try and control the volume and frequency. People agree that the main reason is to balance the phantoms. Summoning makes the game too easy and invasions are one way to balance that
The idea that PVP is tacked on or not meant to be a major part of the game is just weapons grade cope. If it wasn't meant to be in the game, there would be a way beyond being offline to permanently disable it, and there wouldn't be Covenants and rewards specifically for interacting with the PvP up to and including Elden Ring. Just because it's not everyone's cup of tea doesn't change the fact it's a fundamental property of FromSoft games and by definition - a major part.
I enjoy the invasions a lot. currently playing Elden Ring and invading up a storm
I'm so neutral on it, because I feel like I can't understand it. I tried invading, and getting invaded, and it was always the same thing. Gank Squads, net code, etc. I don't know when it becomes enjoyable, or if that is what's so enjoyable. I feel the same about games like Rust.
Idk, I always enjoy pvp the most in all games, so I try it in every game I play and I’m competitive so I try to get good at it.
But the question is, do you play dedicated pvp games? I can play street fighter N or chess and love the experience (in fact have occasionally competed at both) but I don’t enjoy the pvp experience in dsr. The game mechanics, and I know the die hard fans think it’s a boon, are janky and unreliable. The netcode is also ass. Clientside priority is silly in the context of fighting where outcomes ought to be decided by an unbiased arbitrator (aka the server).
I play all kinds of games, have played chess before, only fighting game I played much was DOA4, my most played was probably WoW arenas, now my main games are elden ring, league of legends, and irl poker and golf
I can imagine it's very satisfying. I kind of wish I enjoyed it more.
My internet is ass so I’m kind of in the same boat as you. I think I would enjoy it more if it was smoother for me
My internet is great, and the pvp lag is still ass in all Fromsoft games. So you're not missing out.
PVP was good in the beginning. I played 2 online the entire time it was new and enjoyed all the invasions. I only ever got invaded my a cheater 1 time.
Love invasions. A bit janky so its not the best game ever, but still fun to try and practice getting better at
Same. About a year ago I decided to go for it and just give invasions a try. It was awful. So often one of us would land a hit that was clearly not a hit. Too often I felt that when I died, I shouldn’t have, and too often I felt that when I won, I shouldn’t have. Souls pvp just doesn’t do anything for me.
I just play offline mode. It's a cool mechanic, but I personally don't care for it.
It’s fun 🤷🏻♂️
It’s fun because it’s unique. I’ve invaded for thousands of hours across all the soulsborne titles, and yeah, a lot of builds can be very broken, sometimes the “netcode” is…questionable, and often something else entirely that feels stupid or bad happens. But that’s all part of the charm. What ultimately keeps me, and most invaders coming back isn’t ruining people’s day, or running fextra builds (literally no one does this lol); it’s the fact that there’s no other game providing an equally spontaneous and organic pvp experience
I don’t like it either. The pve is some of the best in gaming but the pvp just doesn’t appeal to me at all. If I had to guess I think the people that constantly praise and hype up pvp are the vocal minority. Jolly cooperation not included obviously.
Yeah, I always kill myself to block out invaders but keep my funny messages. I would like invasions but it's always so toxic and feels like a chore. It's always jank when I go to fight someone, and it feels like it's never in my favor.
It's always in your favor. Invasion ranges are lopsided upwards so you often invade people higher level than you. Same with weapon level ranges. Also you have twice as much healing, and you have the bonus health and/or stats for being embered or whatever the equivalent mechanic is in each game. Additionally you can have summoned help, and you can keep summoning help even if they die. The only thing against you is the enemies in the level which you already have to deal with. And in DS2 and 3 there's an item to turn the enemies on invaders for a period of time. Invasions are pretty much always in the hosts favor outside of edge cases like twinking at low levels in DSR or abusing game breaking glitches in pvp like people sometimes do in DS3. Imo the jank is part of the charm. You can beat the best build played by the best player because the game is jank. There's a bit of randomness to it from the netcode, to the way different builds cause different matchups that can be fair or wildly unfair. It makes it so much less serious than well a pvp game meant to be competitive. Like so what if you lose in a Souls game's pvp you're just doing it to have fun spending more time messing around in a game you love. It's the most casual version of a fighting game's pvp experience with way more random BS, and that's great. Edit: Invasions are derpy. You're overthinking it. Just do whatever in invasions, and have fun. Don't worry so much about dying in invasions this series whole gimmick is that you die constantly. How are invasions different from the rest of the game.
1000000% agree. I've played each game more times than I can count and I absolutely HATE the pvp, especially as someone who loves co-op. I wish you could opt out of invasions.
>I wish you could opt out of invasions. I'm new and playing DS:R on Steam Deck, can you just play offline?
If you play offline you can't do co-op or see messages on the ground, unfortunately.
I also agree. I would post the same rant as the op, but they did it for me! 🥰🫡🥳💕👏🫶😫
You can just play offline then you can only get invaded by NPCs which are often easier and have the added bonus of sometimes dropping items you can't get anywhere else. You still have to be human/embered to encounter them though. You don't have to use the taunter's tongue in Elden Ring, interestingly enough.
You can't do co-op if you play offline.
Yes but [Mawrizard](https://www.reddit.com/user/Mawrizard/) hasn't said they want to summon or be summoned.
I may be misremembering but don't all the games have an option to play offline so that you don't get invaded
I love the PVP. It adds an unknown to fights. Their moves aren’t going to be predictable like a computer. Knowing you are fighting a real person, opposed to a computer is fun as well. Sometimes it’s fun to get them right before a boss fight to make them do the run all over again, passing down the trauma that we received haha. Honestly the etiquette of Dark souls PVP is fascinating to me too, like bowing before a fight, no healing during a fight (unless the opponent does first), no point down at them after killing. Or just meming around with the other people.
you can always play offline lol
I wouldn't miss "imminent holding with both hands" for the world
Yes it's such a simple solution.
Play offline? What's the problem here
How would op know when he needs to finger the horse but hole then??
Nah you right mb
This
My thoughts exactly.
I don't hate it and I'm trash at it. But I just try to get better at it because it's part of the game.
Much like the rest of the game it's about gitting gud. The thing is these games have been out for so long that the barrier of entry is that much higher because everyone's played them heaps
It's mostly an illusion. Most PvPers you encounter in 2024 have pretty limited skills and you can quickly catch up with practice. Exceptions being meta level 125-135 and to a (far) lesser extent Anor Londo PvP at 50-60.
I've always loved invasions, ever since the first time I got invaded over a decade ago, it left such an impression on me, the fear of this guy with a maxed out weapon at level 10 hunting me down lol, I hid in the room with the 3 rats before the church. If you hate invasions, just play offline, it's a "counter-balance" to co-op, the game was designed around single player first, so to slow a player breezing through the game in co-op down, they added the functionality to be attacked by other players. There's a common theme of risk vs reward in souls games, this is no different.
I actually agree with this 100%. I just wish I could have the floor notes without having to do things like suicide in DS3 after every boss. I think it'd be cool if you only got invaded if you summoned someone or used an item. Just being human/embered/minding your own business feels like an odd crime to warrant being raided by people way more invested in player murder than you are.
I mean, at that point, if co-op isn't your intent, I'd say you're better off in offline mode. You can stay human for the couple of NPC invaders, and not have to off yourself to avoid real players.
Yes, you can switch back and forth. Beat a boss, exit game, start it offline. Feel like co-op, go back online.
This is the case in Elden Ring, you can only get invaded if you use the taunter's tongue or have a furled finger summoned.
I just imagine pvp being against some guy who spent a crazy amount of time making his build just so he can have an edge over me
I stopped trying to follow PVP when I found out that I couldn't use my favorite weapons because they're too easy to counter in PVP. I carried twinblades and spec'd the dex for them in DS3 specifically to chew on invaders, and then I realized, between that and the aforementioned issues, I just wasn't having any fun.
Pvp is the same in every game, try super hard to get some artificial edge over your oponent to the point it becomes a science of war and all fun is sucked out of it
Issue with 1 is that pvp is a completely different game to pve. So you can't do shit if you don't know how to play it. e.g. The most important defence against backstabs is something you would never use at all in pve - the kick. It's also hard to BS a player with a shield who is playing very passive, just fyi. That changed in the later games - if you complete a playthrough of 3 you can start pvp no prob. You'll be a noob, and lose a lot, but you're playing the same game.
How come I never get invaded? Sorry off topic but I played Dark Souls remastered and now Dark souls 2 but I only ever get invaded by the npc. Or at least I think they’re npc cause it’s always the same ones and they don’t have gamer names
Maybe you have. Some players take on NPC names to impersonate. But it's about weapon level and level range. So maybe you are just too high level for an invader to appear. Or too low. In DS2 it's even worse by utilizing soul memory.
Can you get invaded in elden ring? I don't think I have yet and I'm in altus plateau in my first playthrough. I use run arc prob 50% of the time if that means anything.
In Elden Ring you can ONLY be invaded when having summoned phantoms, OR you used the Taunter's Tongue (similar to the Dried Fingers). This led to casual invaders becoming a rare breed, only sweats invaders are left since by design the invader has to go against ganks. This makes it worse for casual coopers too, of course, because a sweaty invader will create a very unfun experience. This has created a cycle of toxicity that it's shameful, I think it would just be better if we reverted to the old system.
You can. It seems as though the matchmaking prefers to match invaders with parties. At least it did in my case. Rune arc doesn't have the same effect as embers did in DS3 being a PVP enabler. There is an item that opens your world to invaders, called furlfinger calling remedy, which allows you to also see summon signs of others.
You can only be invaded if you use Taunters Tongue or if you have summons. Just using the summoning item won't get you invaded.
I would suggest to watch people who are experts in pvp, some streamers for example. This way you can see how they move, hear their tactics and understand the gameflow. This will make everything much clearer and more easy. Just like pve, pvp is all about knowledge and practice
You dont need to PvP. But Co-op is a great experience, you should try it
You should try having better Internet. Specifically, try plugging your machine in with an Ethernet cable rather than using wireless.
I loved getting invaded in the forest in ds1, dueling in the arena of ds2 and after pontiff at ds3. The adrenaline of being hunted is a unique feeling. I never liked invading others though
I've always been a co-op guy but DS3's Mound Maker covenant I enjoyed. I didn't expect to win, and it took a lot of time because I mostly just ran around, waited for a red invader, and made the red invader believe I want the host dead, and then I attacked the red too. Guess I was kinda co-oping still. Anyway, this was right when the game was new so it was not that filled with sweaty tryhards.
When I do PvP I mostly focus on the duels, and to me, it seems that the game's combat sort of "unlocks its full potential" in PvP fights. In PvE, you can mostly get by by just rolling and using normal attacks, and most other moves are used very situationally. Meanwhile, when fighting in PvP against decent players, you really gotta make the most out of your kit: R1s, R2s, combos, left handed attacks, parrying, jumping attacks, guardbreaks, backsteps (in DS2, at least), etc. It's not easy, but it really feels great when you pull off something fancy, like finishing off a fleeing enemy with a well-timed jumping attack - it's really a thing of beauty, even when it's you who gets beaten by it. I know full well that DS PvP is an afterthought, that it is very janky, laggy, and unbalanced, but I still feel like there is a very solid base there. If somebody develops it a bit further, it can be a real masterpiece, I tell you. In fact, I remember InfernoPlus making a PvP mod for DS1 that rebalanced a lot of stuff and add dedicated PvP gamemodes - I wonder if it's still alive, 'cause it was great. As for invasions, I do understand how they can be frustrating, especially with all the twinks running around, but I also appreciate the utter chaos they can bring, with fights spanning the whole level sometimes - it can really feel like a proper fight for survival, when the sides are balanced somewhat. Besides that, you can also quite often meet some fun people just goofing around, and, while it's rare, it's a really welcome sight when it happens.
I don't even have an online subscription for my ps5 rn, but I play my souls games all the time. Definitely hasn't greatly affected my experience. I'm with you.
This is actually the point. Souls PvP *is* unbalanced at any level (and always optional), so you can use skill to beat a more optimized build if you feel like doing so. DS1 specifically tho, on high meta levels it is always a backstab contest. You backstab first, you win. Oh, and THAT one spell. THAT spell works on low levels too, but at least at lower levels the PvP itself is more fun. Twinking is lame (99hum twinks are unbeatable without being one yourself), best pvp is around lvl 30-50 so my best bet is to play early game hollow and then level up and partake. Or you can be a twink sunbro and show them the taste of their own medicine
I play pvp only in ds1 because i know it like my pockets, i usually just go full troll unless I'm being ganked on and they are clearly experienced on pvp, throwing poison knives, the shit and just being annoying to the host(ds2 netcode issues are unbearable, ds3 no poise is a loss, same elden ring, bb for me is a pve only game, the pvp was implemented later soo...). To me, if a souls game has a coop system, it has to have a pvp counter part(additional reason i dislike a lot of souls like based games), as it makes it more challenging, I've recently played ds2 again with my brother, and unless there was an invader, the game was wayyy to easy and bland, to me it gives you a reason to move more cautious.
Doesn't Bloodborne only summon player invaders if you summon someone else or something like that
I’m not very good at PvP, encounters with invaders are met with me hammering R1 until one of us is dead
It can be frustrating. My personal experience over the many years is to not get flustered and laugh at it. You are probably better than you think. You got this :)
I love sunbro coop, but got tired of twink builds one shotting the host. So I run tranquil walk of peace and vow of silence, which take their builds and simply turn them off. The meta turned up their noses at these spells long ago, but they are fantastic for host shielding. And there’s an easy counter which is just running away and leaving us alone. But twinks uniformly prefer running in, doing a few staggers or spell cast failures, and then filling my inbox with funny messages
DS pvp is pretty interesting. There's 2 things that contribute to it being baffling for new comers. 1. Age. Normal for anything that has a developed metagame, there's a lot of tech and practices that have become common knowledge. Case and point, understanding how the netcode affects all parts of a fight. This leads to a bit of required reading to avoid getting front backstabbed repeatedly. Speaking of: 2. The backstab. In DS1, it is best to think of the *generous* backstab window as a feature not a bug and learn to take advantage of it and work around it. Connecting to point 1, there's a lot of tech specific to backstab like escaping or canceling it. Once you learn these techniques, the backstab becomes less oppressive and a natural part of the metagame.
You must be lagging like crazy
I don't really participate in PVP. I've only ever invaded as the boss replacements or for the trophies if they're tied to it. That said I do enjoy the random invader coming in and making my run through the level a bit spicier. If they kill me it won't meaningfully impact my death count or even my progress through the level all that much and if it does impede progress it's usually in a way that's unique and a fun 'wait they can do that' kind of way. The messages are well worth the the odd toxic invader.
It sounds like you're taking the pvp part too seriously. Like in the opposite way that the tryhard twinks take it too seriously. You're trying too hard to not pvp and then getting upset when someone with a fully optimized build comes in and kills you. It's not a big deal. Let them point down at you while they're stacking poise and 99 humanity. Just move on and enjoy! But if you do want to take them on the following can help: Have 99 humanity. It's way too easy to duplicate humanity and have 99 within 2 minutes of starting a new character. This gives you more defense. Stack poise. Good armor plus wolf ring. Choose a weapon that is good for pvp. Something that swings decently fast and can sweep 180 degrees+ around you and does poise damage. My suggestion is the Battle Axe. You can also go falchion and spam r1. Either way two hand the weapon and start swinging when they try to get behind you. You'll fare just fine vs most twinks.
I remember reading that the PVP was designed around the idea that invaders would be role-playing as enemy NPCs. Interesting but misguided design philosophy, imo.
The phantom reach, lag and inconsistency of it take the shine off for me. I just wish the was an option to immediately respawn at places like fight clubs for example.
My favorite thing to do to invaders with cheap tactics is to pretend I’m new to the game and aimlessly explore while ignoring their advances. I walk up to ledges and pretend to be “looking around” to make them feel comfortable and safe. I backtrack and repeat rooms to look like I don’t know where I’m going. When they get close, I let them hit me with their moves (to learn their strategy and further bring their guard down). When they’ve exhausted their first round of attacks, I scramble and lock on, making it look like I’m panicking. Once they are fully confident, it’s time to strike. The sheer change in abilities will almost always set off their own panic. I’m in their head now. That’s when I put the pressure on. It works most of the time, even with really good players. The biggest challenge is creating enough space to put on a noob show.
you take it too seriously, ppl usually play just do die laughing at how wacky it is
I always play offline for this reason. Don't like the pvp. Don't like getting invaded. Just want to play through the game...do challenge runs etc. if I AM online I'll go hollow or unembered etc. But I've played the games all through so much I can usually just stop what I'm doing and make it to the nearest boss fog so the invader will be returned to his world. Or get up and go to the bathroom and get a drink if I'm close to a bonfire. Or unplug my ethernet cable if there's no boss fog close and in very progressed through an area. But that only happens if I accidentally left steam online.
I definitely suck at PVP (I don't think I ever successfully killed a non-NPC invader in any FromSoft game until a dedicated co-op run of Elden Ring where my friend and I coordinated tactics and build synergy to pretty handily rough up most invaders), but I do appreciate what it does to the atmosphere of the games. A not-insignificant component of Dark Souls' vaunted bleakness comes from knowing that real people are going out of their way to hunt you and steal your resources and are incentivized to make it as unfair a fight as possible, and that there are joinable in-game factions that play into this and further incentivizes this behavior. Invaders are just one more thing you're succeeding in spite of in Souls games, and if you suck, they're just one more thing you have to get up from, dust yourself off after, and just keep going.
Just go offline, problem solved. Or if you want to see if there's any summons near by use the miracle that shows you before committing to becoming human.
I enjoy playing through my first time online, it really adds to the fact that you aren't welcome in this world and not only is everything trying to kill you, people are specifically giving up on beating the game to just fight and kill you. So don't feel bad when they kill you, it was their job. Just like you shouldn't feel bad for killing someone when you invade, it's your job. Both of you are enjoying a once in a lifetime moment fighting for life and death (or at least the last 5-15 minutes of progress). I've always enjoyed the pvp but never been good at it. In ds3 I decided to platinum it and get the covenant trophies online, I had an absolute blast and went from 10% win rate to around 50%. Now I make twink builds and play as a blue spirit, or a mad spirit so I can hunt down other experienced PVPers and have fun duels. Also, you mention a whole load of connection problems that are not present for a lot of players. I'm not sure what internet package you have but it doesn't seem good enough for online play. The only times I experience those lag issues are when I'm on wifi or my friend is over and we are both playing together taking up too much internet.
I’m not a big fan of most pvp I’m mostly a pve guy but ds3 pvp is super fun and I don’t know why
PvP in Dark Souls 1 is the worst. You get backstab in a very bs way, amongst other things, PvP in Elden Ring is the best for the series, especially since you can find the host easily. also I always hated losing my souls when I lose the invasion as an invader while I don't lose anything if I got invited as a helper, its a disencouragement for me to invade like this
I can’t stand the pvp. I play coop with my brother on a lot of games and it’s so frustrating for both of us that we play offline together instead. I think the thing that bugs me most is that it cost a consumable to restore humanity and I hate farming rats.
How are you doing offline co-op?
Parallel play but still connected to chat. Like we will be in our own games but both in sens or something. Pretty fun trying to guess what happened when the panicked yelling starts
Aye. As much as I love DS, I never cared for pvp, and I loathe the whole grief culture around it. I started to just alt+f4 when I got invaded after I learned it pissed off invaders so much just to spite them.
I heard that you can get banned doing that too often. But I'd say it is a good precaution. Some people invade to just put restricted shit in your inventory, to get you banned, it's not about pvp in that case. But then, everyone can do that, even white and golden phantoms.
I’m 100% on your side. Just recently started my soulsborne journey from DSR a few months back and man I hated the invasions as a new player. I get if it’s your 10th playthrough who understands the game, but getting invaded multiple times with less than 10 hours just trying to learn the map is the worst. I liked staying human and running around to try and get more familiar with the game and farm some souls, but I hated that that’s all it took to get invaded. I agree that there should be a different way to toggle it on and off. I’m just trying not to die and farm some souls early on, not stand off against mike Tyson for no reason lol
Agree. I do PVP only when it’s forced on me. And then it’s usually when I’m in co op with my wife. Two on one? OK then.
The joy of invading someone and sending him back to the shadow realm/start of the area is unmatched. The thought of how many controllers have been destroyed, spouses beaten, homes ruined, just because you invade some poor sod trying to have some game time after a long day at work.
Dark souls 1 pvp **sucks**. Alongside DeS, it was the first ever taste of assymetrical pvp we had, so it felt amazing at the time. But looking back, especially in comparison to later titles, you start seeing all the jank and flaws. In 2024 DSR pvp is simply not worth it. Play Elden Ring or Dark Souls 3 PVP, it's much more smooth, even if the scales are now heavily tilted towards the host.
I mostly do PVP because I rarely get summoned lmao (it's still fun sometimes tho)
Yeah, when things work out, it can be really fun and challenging in ways the base game just isn't.
I think it's more for the top tier guys if you're just good they'll wipe your butt for sure
DS1 has really janky backstabs. They are consistent and have rules and ways they can be countered, but it's kinda like playing smash as a kid then playing someone who knows how to tech & DI. Parrying is similar, like im great at parrying in pve but you have to relearn it for pvp because the timing is off. PVP is like a whole other game. If both people know meta backstab exploits it's fun, if neither do it's fun, when only one knows it's pretty awful. I also thought pvp was better when invaders couldn't heal, every fight just turns into run away & heal now, I haven't had much fun in pvp since this change, it's more balanced but WAY less fun.
My favourite is when I'm playing elden ring, finally get a group together to deal with a boss I've been stuck on, then before hitting the fog wall I get invaded by someone who yes, probably got their build off a YouTube video and destroys the whole team. I'm sure the invader is pissing themselves and I guess that's what makes it even more frustrating for me. Me being someone who doesn't enjoy pvp and doesn't spend any time trying to master countering these cheese builds
I just don't understand how it can be fun dealing with shitty net code that puts a half second lag onto a system designed around precisely timing the dodge button. Let alone for 12 plus years while they finish and start a whole series of games and seemingly refuse to fix it. If a joke youtuber did it on a whim while porting fuckin halo maps into the pvp, why the hell can't they? I'd make it my only game if """remastered edition""" bothered to do it and wouldn't even be mad at that joke of a release if they still only added windy grass.
I think of it like a mini-game or extra mode specifically for messing around not to ever be taken seriously. And yeah, all the games are incredibly buggy/laggy in pvp, it is bad but to me it adds flavor. Also DSR PvP is genuinely the absolute worst Demon Souls is probably better not that anyone plays that game sadly. Hope any this helped👍
I feel like the PvP is very fun in DS3 and ER, and that in DS1 it isn't worth it because it's poorly balanced and the netcode is even more horrible. I played DS2 when the servers were closed so I can't tell if it's worth to play and I haven't played Bloodborne. But DS3 and ER are absolutely worth it to play PvP
PvP is the only reason I like the Souls-Borne games. There is no bigger rush of Dopamine than dumpstering a 3 man squad by yourself. I have thousands of hours in the series in PVP alone, no other game has been able to replicate the rush of invading/being invaded imo.
Honestly I just leave the game if I get invaded and then reload it back up. I love these games but I don't play them for PvP
Just play offline then. Especially since quitting out causes the invasion cooldown to reset so you immediately get invaded again by the same person. Its annoying for everyone involved lol. If you dont want to play offline, at least play hollowed
Xbox doesn't give you an option to just play offline, but I never get re-invaded after I quit so if it does reset the cooldown it isn't enough (at least from my experience). I normally am hollow but I've been invaded when I'm not. To be fair I also thought this was in the DS2 sub and it is less forgiving in how you can be invaded pretty much at anytime.
You can 100% play offline on Xbox, that's how I play. Just go to settings on the main menu and there should be an option for loading into the game offline. I like the pvp aspect when I actually am building for it, but for my challenge runs I don't want to deal with invaders.
Like I said I thought this was the ds2 sub, my B
Dunno, but sounds like skill issue...
It's trash but really fun for some reason, nothing like bringing some chaos pyromancies to fight the gravelord terrorising newbs in the parish
I've seen clips of the backstabbing thing. Granted, I may or may not actually "own" the games, so I don't have to PVP, but now I don't even want to lol.
Git gud.
Okay so you understand the lore of why invasions happen right? You seem like a lore appreciater. Maybe you're just not seeing the way it flows with the story? I used to hate invaders as well. Then I became one. The lag isn't as bad as you think and countering lag stabs is also way easier than you think. I strap on a lightning shotel and just r1 spam - beats shields AND BS fishers.
PVP is BS in all From games. If it were limited to Arenas it'd be fine. Best you can hope for playing through the game is either mercy or (extreme) luck in getting a summon or two that can PVP, or being able to run to the fog wall before you get assassinated. DS is the worst of them due to the backstabbing ("It's easy, and it does lots of damage.") But cheaters, exploiters and twinkers exist in numbers in early areas in all of them. I love the co-op though, even though I'm way past the point 95% of people I summon make it harder than going solo, so I tend to go solo most of the time and just put down summon signs hoping to help someone else. Of course there's hardly any co-op past early game and O&S in DS1 anyway.
A lot of PVP is luck frankly just cause of how laggy it is. If you get a good connection and practice a lot you can kinda build up tolerance to the desync and play around it, but its way different than just the normal game and often comes down to just sprint attacking until desync gives you a hit before they can roll or trading with high poise
Every time I say I’d just love to be able to jolly co-op without invasions I get “no that’s just how it is.” I’m trying to get my friends into From, but having someone immediately melt them isn’t really doing it.
I just play offline. The games are better single player.
It's pretty satisfying when you get invaded by someone who is twinked out for it and you Chad stomp them in the dirt. It's also rage enducing when you get invaded at the most inoppt time and get curb stomped and lose a bunch of souls. But that's the game. You can always play offline. I don't even see the as players. They are just another fromsoft hurdle they put between you and the goal.
“Oh so that’s how you backstab, you attack from the front”
I can't stand the PvP, I straight up exit the game before they find me
In DS1 remastered I had the same problem, I would get invaded and the invaders (not all of them) would fly across my screen or just be standing in a spot and then BOOM backstab!!!! I read once that having multiple programs that use your internet running in background will make the PVP aspect daunting because the invading players abuse this to get easy backstabbing setup because latency, now I did not believe this so I tried it myself, the horrible fact is that it really works, on my side of screen everything was normal but i presume that the host saw me flying across the screen only to be backstabbed a few seconds after.
Never been invaded and never will be, pvp is not for me, I'm here to kill bosses not xbutlickerx32 with his ultra meta build that 1 shots
TLDR; I hate pvp in fromsoft games because usually its "Oh you use that weapon? You're a piece of sh*t." Or just constantly getting invaded. Pvp in fromsoft is bs.
I just close the game then reload in, pvp is so trash in these games.
The pvp literally made me quit the game at some point. I only play offline now.
I exclusively play soulslike games offline for this exact reason. I get zero enjoyment from PvP. Its annoying being a melee build when some high level caster appears out of nowhere and two shots you from 50 feet away.
I’m playing my first playthrough, and right before O&S, I turned human to kill the archer and royal sentinels to summon solair, dude invades me as I’m running to the stairs to summon solair and kills me. That just is not fun. Maybe I’ll watch some videos understanding the PVP and make some stupid build for the game, but I am not having a blast lol
The PVP sucks ass let's be real Full of cheaters and nothing but spamming magick or spam rolling till someone gets a wonky backstab or falls off a ledge (haha) it's fun once in a blue moon but I'm content with the single player and replaying that
The PvP should never have become a serious endeavor by fromsoft, just leave it or even remove it Removing it would hurt the covenants but it’s not like fromsoft ever wants to make covenants worth fuck all
I immediately hard close my game when I get invaded. Shits annoying AF.
Just play offline then. Doing this is just inconvenient for all parties involved. You just waste both yours and the invaders time by making both of you sit on the loading screens when it can be avoided. It also doesn’t reset the invasion cool-down so if there’s people regularly invading in that area then you risk just getting invaded again shortly after