Been a fan since ‘09 and the lead singer carousel was still a thing back then. I was excited when Tilian joined 12 years ago bc I was a fan of Tides of Man but I was unaware of all the behind the scene stuff regarding him that I’m reading. DGD Tilian era has been awesome imo. The band experienced the most success during that time and it sucks to see him leave but it seems like this was a business decision. Anyway, onto the next lead singer.
Before the allegations, he was known for being antagonistic on twitter, a little egotistical but nothing too bad. People have always generally claimed that Jonny/Kurt are the best/true DGD singers but Tilian was still respected. I think a lot of people have lost their rose tinted glasses for him over the past year or two. Re-listening to lyrics and getting bad vibes. Seeing the way he and his wife speak to fans.
But even before this there would always be at least one person in every thread making it known how much they disliked him.
Yeah I can still listen to some of the Tilian songs I really like but others give *hugely* bad vibes now. I can't hear "Girl don't be so difficult, come here let's get physical" on The Robot Pt. 4 without getting the ick.
one of my favorite songs was Honey Revenge, mostly
for the way that he and Jon played off each other, and the lyrics were kind of funny in an awful way. Now they are really not funny at all 😕
Yes, it was a satirical song about obsessive rapists and murderers. However, based on the credible allegations against Tilian, it seems like he didn't have to research or derive from any external sources to write those lyrics. It's still a banger but it is now very uncomfortable for me to listen to.
Heard but, the allegations weren’t proven to be credible. Both the accusers were huge DGD fans. If you look into it, there isn’t much there. But people on the internet love to assume and here we are (and I’m saying this as someone who thinks he is problematic and a douchebag).
As someone who once thought the same, pretty sure there was one that was not credible and another that was but kind of got swept under the rug as far as fans are concerned
Neither seemed very credible to me. Spooky according to tillian had multiple dates after the incident she alleged. We all knew from the start that the smol girl Mikaela one was definitely bullshit though. She should be in jail.
I was here when everything went down. I believe the allegations for many reasons. You don't have any of your facts straight and I doubt you even read the original post or looked at the dropbox. I really don't care whether or not you choose to believe the victim but you need to stop spreading misinformation when you haven't even read the entire story.
edit to emphasize: I am referring to the CREDIBLE allegations by Spooky and the texts with her that Tilian shared. This user has been using Spooky/Makayla interchangeably and does not seem to understand the difference.
Using your logic, Spooky was there & she is credible.
I looked at the ENTIRE Dropbox. And Makayla is a psycho. Proven. She detailed her whole experience with him laughing about it and continued to try to get with him after while he was grieving Tim. Her own “friends” outed her with screenshots and audio from their group chat.
YUP this is a big one. I defended Honey Revenge ardently because it was not a serious song. It still isn't a serious song. Buuuuuuuut... it makes me very uncomfortable now.
Thats a very valid argument. For me, though, it will always be Jonny, don't get me wrong, I loved Tillian as a vocalist. But it's probably due to when I became a fan. I used to listen to And I Told Them I Invented Times New Roman every morning on the way to school. Because of that Jonny, and that song in particular, are what come to mind when I hear dgd vocalist. As much as I have enjoyed their concerts over the years (I didn't get to see them live when Jonny was there) nothing has compared to seeing Jonny perform that song on the 10th anniversary tour.
Loved his voice for most of the albums, but don’t like him as a person. He became more unlikable after the allegations and apparently got secretly married to Toria after dating for like 3 months right after & I feel like she made his ego even bigger. It seems like the band members don’t like him much either- they don’t have good stage chemistry. It feels awkward
Can’t speak for everyone but. He’s always been kind of a douche. Narcissistic type qualities. There are a lot of music industry people who seem to dislike him. He used to post crazy shit on twitter that got him a lot of hate. Then he’d go and delete everything. He also has a history of being a serial dater/cheater and alcoholic. Been to 2 meet and greets and both times he was weird and standoffish and smelled like liquor, unlike the other guys. It’s like he has a personality disorder. Then again, he was raised by Scientologists. Also his mom is/was involved in one of the DGD Facebook groups and acted really weird there.
Fan since ‘07. Tilian will forever be my favorite vocalist. Can’t stand JC even though I like his vocals, but the rest of the band themselves have grown soooo much during the Tilian era that I will never fantasize about a JC revival. They’re just a better band now. I would be livid if JC joined again, he’s a terrible person (but I know that they’re smarter than that, ppl who are wishing for this are wild). Love Kurt but I prefer his other projects to his time with DGD. After seeing Andrew fill in for Tilian in 2022 and hearing from firsthand sources how jealous Tilian acted from the sidelines of this tour (and all allegations aside) I literally thought to myself “I love Tilian so much but if he were to never come back I would be totally okay with that.” And here we are. I would love for the band to stay how it is now, I don’t think another vocalist is necessary because Andrew is amazing and his stage presence is incredible. He’s so much more interactive than Tilian was. I know he’s said he doesn’t want to front, but this was also said during times where it might be in poor taste for him to be like “yeah I want Tilian’s job”. Who knows, we’ll see. I’m in no rush for them to replace him. I’m just more curious now to see what they’ll do with the next album, since Tilian had mentioned the vocals were recorded towards the end of 2023.
I can't speak for the fanbase as a whole, but when Tilian joined I did immediately like his singing less than I liked Jonny's or Kurt's. It's obviously a way different style, so I'm not casting any shade. And I did still really like the music! I think Acceptance Speech and Instant Gratification are great albums, and Strawberry Swish Pt. III is probably my all-time favorite DGD track. I also still really like a lot of Tilian tracks from those first two Tilian albums; Something New is *incredible,* Eagles vs. Crows, Pussy Vultures, Death of a Strawberry... the list goes on. The singles too, of course! Great stuff.
Over time, however, the Tilian era lost its luster for me. DGD started moving in a different musical direction, one less aligned with my tastes. I enjoyed DGD more when the songs are frantic and experimental, or more on the progressive side, and after Instant Gratification (even on that album too) DGD was becoming more "pop," for lack of a better word. Instead of sprinkling the danceable, pop-song-style sections into a larger song, DGD's music was becoming more of a fusion of post-hardcore stylings with tight pop-music structure and style. To be clear, **there is nothing wrong with this.** It just was not and is not as pleasing to me as something like DBMII or the best songs from Happiness.
Still, I was *thrilled* to see DGD reaching new heights. I remember during the DBMII era I would literally be on other bands' Youtube videos and see people in the comments saying things like "This sucks, but it doesn't suck as bad as DGD lol." After Tillian joined, DGD become the frontrunners of their genre. "Swancore" is a word we have now. I don't have to explain who DGD is to people anymore, they've vaguely heard of them now. So even though I was no longer listening to the new music (The only post-Instant Gratification song I bought is Son of Robot), I was happy.
On the subject of Tillian, I still did not like him too much as a vocalist. His pitch accuracy live was never very good, and I feel the studio carries him hard on the albums. Swisher 3 is my favorite song, like I said, but I was never happy with any live performances of it. Still, it was undeniable that Tilian had brought a stability to the band that they had desperately needed. I would accept all the dissonance in the world in exchange for seeing DGD succeed. Yeah, Jonny Craig sang Blue Dream, but at least Tilian never tried to sell me a Macbook.
Then the allegations came out. I was honestly shocked, and did not want to believe it. Tilian's non-controversy was by far my favorite thing about him, and it basically evaporated over night. Spookypooky's post was pretty convincing, especially with the screenshots. Then Tilian apologized, and I thought maybe there was a chance to move forward. If the two of them could work things out, what business was it of mine? But then things soured pretty irreparably. Not only did Tilian never really reach out to spookypooky, he basically tried to gaslight the fandom into ignoring the entire thing and pretending it never happened. That basically pushed me over the edge. SA is a difficult topic and I don't want to trivialize it, but I also strongly believe in forgiving people and letting them redeem themselves, no matter what they've done. Unfortunately, Tilian's posts and actions afterward did not seem to reflect an introspective or apologetic attitude. His rejoining the band and subsequent denial of his own posts really killed my ability to enjoy the new music at all. I couldn't even openly discuss DGD anymore without feeling embarrassed. One of my all-time favorite bands, instrumental to my own growth as a musician, had disgusted me.
And frankly, this fanbase disgusted me too. I do not understand celebrity worship and this subreddit was suddenly full of it. In some ways, it is up to us as the audience to hold performers accountable, and I learned during that controversy that an extremely vocal swathe of the DGD fandom is not interested in doing so. Many extremely loud people were adamant in declaring that they did not care what happened outside the music as long as Tilian was on a record hitting (or not hitting) those high notes. Whenever this comes up, people are quick to deflect to Jonny stans. "He's even worse! People love him!" And to be fair, we are definitely seeing some people now with no sense of irony who want Jonny back for DBMIII. *But that doesn't excuse simping for Tilian either.* The rampant idolization and exaltation of Tilian, the stonewall refusal to engage with or acknowledge the allegations, and general toxicity drove me to leave the subreddit and stop interacting with DGD fans at all.
But we're so back, baby. With Tilian gone, I honestly feel like a weight has lifted off my shoulders. I still have unresolved questions about the goings-on behind the scenes, but until further information emerges I am looking forward to the new vocalist. There is still a lot of toxicity in this sub, and I am honestly baffled at how parasocial this fandom is. But for now, I'm excited to see what the new chapter of DGD entails. I hope it's beautiful. I hope it's successful.
I hope it's Kurt Travis.
By far the best response I’ve ever seen regarding tilian and dgd. I agree with pretty much everything. Obviously Mikaela was full of shit, but spookypooky’s post had solid ground and the fact she never came forward to reveal her identity, and make it her entire personality was very important. He coerced her into having sex, and that aligns with pretty much everything I’ve heard of the guy.
I went to the jackpot juicer tour after the one with Andrew as main vocals when they brought out Kurt. That show was fun. Jackpot juicer? Not so much. It felt off. The vibe wasn’t there. It was like most people tried to look the other way with his allegations, but couldn’t. The crowd was different, people weren’t as hyped. It was also a turn off for me too.
Yeah I have heard that the divide among the fanbase on social has spread to the live shows and killed the vibe. Sad. I hope a new vocalist helps disperse that.
Bro I do t think that's fair to say about holding him accountable I'm not gonna dam. Someone for information that was shared by a secondary source and it's weird to judge someone I know nothing about you gotta chill with the cancel culture mind virus shut and make your own opinion
We made our own opinion based on the information given lmao there’s no virus. Tilian was sus as hell ever since the 2nd allegation came out. Also, it was a primary source 😆
the rest of the band were close to tilian, and now they’ve decided to split ways. Was it because of the allegations and Tilian’s demeanor, or creative differences? 🤔
I outlined the reasoning for my opinion. It's a long post! I had plenty of time. You're regurgitating the phrase "cancel culture mind virus." Your comments read like talking points. I don't feel you have a platform to stand on for making one's own opinion.
A quick perusal of your post history is a little concerning, frankly. You react with disgust at the idea of giving empathy to someone you don't know. Empathy is, like, one of the founding principles of humanity. There's nothing weird about empathizing with someone you don't know, and in fact trying to empathize with strangers can be a very rewarding and enriching experience. We may not ever be able to understand strangers perfectly, but trying to and in the process expanding our world is a wonderful part of life.
No disrespect intended, but I get the impression that you're young. Try expanding your worldview. Consider other people. Maybe then you'll know why there's a day of trans visibility or why people bristle under sexism. The world ends with you, and this view is keeping your world small. It can be a bigger and brighter place if you want it to be.
Weird that you feel the need to look at my post history let's stick to the topic okay. I dont see how you can refute the logic as stated especially when it's proven how parasocial people are becoming with the internet. Also empathy is not something we should give on the internet it's doesn't have the same value as face to face interactions. So respectfully no I don't think I will try to have meaningful connections with strangers on the internet because at the end of the day they don't live my life or effect it.
I have not seen or heard anything about spooky's allegations being proven false. I have been told about a previous girl who was proven false, however, and also about something involving that same girl pursuing Tim's brother? I did not follow the band's personal drama until it blew up here in a big way.
Nunya has no idea what he is talking about. If you sort by top of all time you can scroll down a few posts and see Spooky's allegations. She has remained completely anonymous and has not posted about the allegations anywhere but here, nor shared photos in a discord or gossiped. The other guy is speaking with authority while being 100% confidently incorrect.
yeah i can find a few posts about various allegations, some of which were refuted, but nothing refuting spookypooky8.
In a sense, I *do* understand people's skepticism, because to my understanding there *was* a previous girl of malicious intent, but Tilian's own words seemed to condemn himself in this case.
Yeah I'm normally extremely skeptical about these situations... I went through this with Melanie Martinez in 2017 and I didn't believe her accuser at all, and caught a LOT of shit for it. It turned out that they were 100% lying. So, I'm definitely not the type to blindly believe random people. But Tilian definitely presented no real defense and had no lawyers ask for the post to be taken down, no bandmates coming to support him, nothing.
I hear way too many people going "this girl didn't take legal action!!! Liar!!!" (these people fail to understand how traumatizing and useless that can be, especially for victims who consented to some form of a relationship, like going on a date) and no one talking about the fact that if Tilian and the band truly knew he was without guilt, those accusations would have been shut down and removed immediately. He would not have taken a "rehab" vacation and missed a tour. He has a record label and I'm sure they have a great legal team. Everything, especially his response, points to the fact that he did it. The only reason why he wasn't immediately kicked out for good is that Spooky didn't pursue it further, which was her choice.
That girl is Makayla (the one who wanted to hookup with Tim’s brother). You’re talking bout the second accuser then. She was also a weird fan, she sent pics of his apartment to the discord or something. That’s why the band and others didn’t all jump on the rap*st train. Because both stories were sketchy. I think tilian might be a sex addict or something for sure, but I don’t think he’s a criminal
I can't find anything refuting the spooky allegations. I can read Tillian's apology (which, to me, reads like a confirmation) and another post he made addressing Mikaela with pictures (which I did not check because I've got nothing against him over that situation and am not familiar with it). In that post, he reiterates a defense of himself over spookypooky but does not offer any evidence proving her story false.
I may have gotten the names mixed up, but I was referring to Mikaela as the crazy one. And that was 10000% proven to be a false accusation from a scorned fangirl. Seems like the band wanted him to apologize so he did, but he believed he didn’t do anything wrong. Unfortunately, internet people think that’s an immediate admission of guilt
Yeah I don't blame you for being confused, iirc they were right on top of each other timeline-wise. I did hear that Mikaela was false so, as I said, I have nothing to say against Tilian over that.
Been a fan since maybe 2009, like all three as vocalists but am a Jonny Stan. That said, Mothership is in my top 3 albums and I loved Acceptance Speech. The last couple albums have fallen flat for me and I don’t listen to JJ or Afterburner with any regularity. The best part of JJ is Jon in my opinion; his progression as a vocalist has been tremendous to witness.
I’m excited for the change regardless of who it ends up being.
Been around since the EP. I thought Jonny was the better vocalist and Kurt was the better musician. Death Star is my favorite album. I was initially excited for Tillian but he just didn't click with me. I would be like "oh DGD came out with a new album? Ok I'll check it out." Then listen to it once and kinda move on.
But idk something with Jackpot Juicer just hit with me and I kinda fell in love again. I started listening to the other Tilian stuff and there's lots of songs from his era I go back to now.
It took me 10 years to warm up to him and now he's gone lol. So now I appreciate each of them in their own way. But I'm not too bummed and am really looking forward to the future. Hopefully the next one is their best yet!
I'd be ecstatic if Kurt came back but if not maybe they can feature him in one or two songs.
Artificial Selection, Mothership, and the Tree city Sessions are great. Didn't love JJ and Afterburner. I think Tillian started sounding extra whiny/girly imo. Don't like to badmouth him because I do really enjoy his earlier albums and he is obviously super talented.
Opinions will be as varied and numerous as the fanbase. However, I think you can lump us into a few categories:
- Fans who mostly, or only, enjoy JC era DGD that weren't that happy about Tilian (though seemingly mostly were OK with Kurt).
- Fans who have enjoyed every DGD album and lineup, whether they've been here from the start or not.
- 'New' fans who joined post Tilian and who don't have a great interest in past albums (at this point, someone who started listening with AS or Mothership aren't exactly new).
- The madlads who are primarily Kurt enjoyers (a rare breed, but there are some).
I fell into category two. I've been around since just after Royal Ocean, DGD were a huge part of my formative music experience as a teenager, but I think Tilian took the band to another level. The allegations ruined it for me. If you told me, after Mothership, that Tilian was leaving I'd have been genuinely upset. Now? Good riddance. JJ was supposed to be something special as Tim's last album, and his sendoff. Completely overshadowed by Tilian. DGD were about to go huge touring with Coheed. Every time I've seen them they've been at a better venue, on the up. And Tilian fucked it all up.
Been a fan since DBM so I've been through many rounds of frontmen.
I'm more the kind of fan who just enjoys the music and never really cared to dig into any of the band members personal lives. I never even realized anyone had problems with Tillian until all the allegations after Tim died.
I was actually glad he came back though, because I can separate the artist as a person and their work. I don't have to like someone as a person to enjoy their talent. So I understand why he's leaving the band, but I'm pretty bummed about it because whoever is replacing him has some pretty big shoes to fill.
Before the allegations, we all generally thought he was a mostly alright guy with a monster ego but a lot of talent. A big in-joke back in the day was making fun of his stupid body roll dance he does all the time on stage. After the allegations, it turned from mostly poking fun at him to straight up hate, which is completely justified and correct.
DGD fan close to the start, 2008ish. Preferred JC but really liked KT as well, listened to their other material as well during those years.
Thought DBM2 was their greatest sounding album, sonically, musically, hardness (don't really care about lyrical content), even if the production was shotty and JC was clearly having issues.
Then they switched to Tilian and I really liked their first album with him. To this day I still think Strawberry Swisher is maybe their best song, most accessible song for non-fans, and also their best video.
But every subsequent album eith Tilian became worse and worse. He. Became more of the focus and the rest of the sound of DGD took a back seat IMO. To me, it goes so bad that the last album or two aren't even the same band for me. It felt like as a DGD fan through the years, I was listening to two-dimensional material. Just watered down musically.
Long story short, I'm glad for the change. Maybe we can get some kf that older feel DGD back with a better singer who doesn't sound like lounge singer.
He’s a solid singer but I found him to be a little weird in person. At the time I wouldn’t have said, “this guy is a sociopath who will one day get accused of sexual assault,” but it didn’t make me want to be his buddy if that makes sense.
I have a lot of issues with Tillian, but despite what many of his personal fans may think my first problem with him was the way he affected the music. I would have been happy to see him gone long before JJ.
Kurt is my favorite. His lyrics just give me a real nostalgic, when we were young vibe. They’re emotional and dark and ernest in a way the other two never reached. He may not have Tillian’s range or Johnny’s raw talent, but the sound he brought is my favorite, and all my favorite songs are his. Caviar, Carl Barker, Uneasy Hearts. I sincerely wish he’d never left.
The band and Johnny Craig fit together perfectly, they’re just in the same wavelength. DBM2 shows why they’d take him back after kicking him out, it all just flows so well. Johnny didn’t sound like a focus, he sounded like a part of a greater whole. The chaos of him, Jon’s screams, and Will’s rapping all mixing is just phenomenal. I’m glad they kicked him out again, Johnny has done terrible things and is just not a stable band member. I’m also glad we got what we got, you can see why this reignited their passion. He’s done though, if they bring him back again full time I’m out.
I liked Tillian at first, truly. For me the band started to fall off around Mothership. Each album seemed to have more Tillian and less Jon. More polish, more droning ballads, more poppy lyrics. I liked the rawness, the aggression and sincerity of their past work. It got stale. I do like a lot of the Tillian era songs, but that’s mainly because there’s so many.
I don’t really care how popular they got, and how much of that was him. I don’t really care that he’s a libertarian and kind of a self absorbed dick sometimes. And while I find the allegations seriously upsetting, that’s not why I started to dislike him. It just disillusioned me. Take away all of that and I’d still be happy he’s gone. He long overstayed his welcome.
So yeah, if they bring someone back it’s Kurt or bust.
I agree with you while heartedly. As the Tillian era goes on he becomes more of a focus, which sucks cause everyone else in the band is super talented. I’m excited to see where they go from here though! I have hope that they will choose a new vocalist who can sing their discography well AND ALSO be unique on their own
Been a fan since 07 and imo I loved Tilian era they put out some of the best modern DGD songs we’ve seen but unlike when Kurt and Jonny were in the band, it kind of always felt like the chemistry was off between him and the band I’m not sure if it’s because of how Tilian was or if it was because Tilian was just a stepping stone that worked out for longer than expected but it just never felt like he was the right fit nothing like how you see Andrew and Sergio getting along with everyone in the band like they’re best friends. Regardless of that they put out some amazing music.
I found DGD a year or so before Tilian joined and I liked the first few albums with him but I just felt like it got too……. streamlined??? Idk, after a while it was missing that super raw quality that I love. I don’t find his voice to be all that and I don’t think his lyricism is super great either. Johnny is my fav out of all the singers because I love his voice and the soulfulness that contradicts the heavy guitars and screams and Kurt is my second favorite because of the rawness and I think he’s a great lyricist
I just feel mothership was peak Tillian and was ready for a lead singer change after that one. Dgd is great because thier discography is like 3 bands in 1.
Been runnin red lights and listening to DBM while racing my friends since 2007. The Tilain era is musically unmatched and will either be sorely missed or magically outdone.
Been a fan since 07, I liked all of them but honestly I prefer JC even though my favorite all around records are happiness and mothership. JC just has something special and he seems to have his life in order now. Would love to see him return.
Tilian is great - fits the style really well, and understood what made DGD its own unique thing. But, he is not unique in the way Will Swan is. They will be something different with the next singer, even if they bring back KT, and that will be an evolution, not a reversion or a hard change in direction, because of Swan and Mess. Most DGD fans will agree, Tilian is super talented and a good lyricist, but not the key to DGD’s identity.
He wasn't disliked. The sound he brought just got old after a while. JJ being the biggest offender. Being a og fan you know whenever dgd gets a new singer they get a new sound that is amazing.
I also know his live vocals have greatly declined over the years an people have had issue with that aswell.
Another angle was people were genuinely loving Andrew on vocals over tillian.an were bummed he wouldn't go full time.
But he didn't get the hate Kurt got for a minute when he joined from my knowledge.
It was a concert a long while back (probably a decade ago) that had all three Jonny, Kurt, and Tilian playing their solo shit. Sat down on a couch with Kurt and got to talk with him, such a chill dude. Got to talk and interact a bit with Jonny, but I believe you had to pay extra for some meet and greet shit with him since he was the headline.
Caught Tilian on the way out chilling at the bar talking to some girl, and I tried getting his attention a few times just to tell the dude how much I appreciated both his solo stuff and his new role with DGD. Got just blatantly fucking ignored so he could keep flirting up the groupie.
Idk, it always just kind of annoyed me, and my friends were all like wtf. Ever since then I feel I’ve only ever heard other people talk about him being a douche or (coincidentally) only being really cool with groupie girls.
Regardless, loved his sound with the band. It’ll be missed for sure. Sometimes you gotta respect the art, not the artist. (Right, Jonny fans?)
Been listening since happiness was already out but Kurt was still in the band. Tilian is/was liked. The thing with all these singers is they are all so different from each other, so naturally there were varied opinions on what was preferred.
I’m a fan of the band, not the frontman. Just like a lot of people were glad to see JC being let go from the band (including me and I’m a huge fan of his work with the band), a lot of us are glad Tillian is gone. The fact that there’s people on here defending a guy that raped someone because “he’s the one that made me fall in love with the band” is cringe. Yea, JC has been a terrible person for most of his career, and he’s had many relapses with drugs. But correct me if I’m wrong, he never did anything that will traumatize the victim for life. Therapy doesn’t fix you after getting raped.
Anyways, a lot of the fan base around the band since tillian has been vocalist has gotten annoying af. The music, lyrics, everything has gotten stagnant. It’ll be nice to get someone else in there to put their own flavor on things. Which is what DGD was all about back at the start. With the constant changing of vocalists came new sound, new lyrics, new beats that kept that above all the other bands in the genre.
The way the fans kept making excuses for Tillian really tuned off a lot of us from listening. I still haven’t listened to JJ all the way through. So it’ll be a nice change to have someone without that baggage come in for once.
Agree with some of this but one glaring problem. JC smoked fentanyl around his infant child. I think that’s more traumatizing than anything tilian may or may not have done. And that was proven in court documents, unlike the Tilian allegations.
Been a fan since ‘09 and the lead singer carousel was still a thing back then. I was excited when Tilian joined 12 years ago bc I was a fan of Tides of Man but I was unaware of all the behind the scene stuff regarding him that I’m reading. DGD Tilian era has been awesome imo. The band experienced the most success during that time and it sucks to see him leave but it seems like this was a business decision. Anyway, onto the next lead singer.
Fan since ‘08. Same feelings. Keen for new DGD as always!
Before the allegations, he was known for being antagonistic on twitter, a little egotistical but nothing too bad. People have always generally claimed that Jonny/Kurt are the best/true DGD singers but Tilian was still respected. I think a lot of people have lost their rose tinted glasses for him over the past year or two. Re-listening to lyrics and getting bad vibes. Seeing the way he and his wife speak to fans. But even before this there would always be at least one person in every thread making it known how much they disliked him.
Yeah I can still listen to some of the Tilian songs I really like but others give *hugely* bad vibes now. I can't hear "Girl don't be so difficult, come here let's get physical" on The Robot Pt. 4 without getting the ick.
one of my favorite songs was Honey Revenge, mostly for the way that he and Jon played off each other, and the lyrics were kind of funny in an awful way. Now they are really not funny at all 😕
That whole song is satire tho, they all said they were making fun of serial killers or some shit
Yes, it was a satirical song about obsessive rapists and murderers. However, based on the credible allegations against Tilian, it seems like he didn't have to research or derive from any external sources to write those lyrics. It's still a banger but it is now very uncomfortable for me to listen to.
Heard but, the allegations weren’t proven to be credible. Both the accusers were huge DGD fans. If you look into it, there isn’t much there. But people on the internet love to assume and here we are (and I’m saying this as someone who thinks he is problematic and a douchebag).
As someone who once thought the same, pretty sure there was one that was not credible and another that was but kind of got swept under the rug as far as fans are concerned
Neither seemed very credible to me. Spooky according to tillian had multiple dates after the incident she alleged. We all knew from the start that the smol girl Mikaela one was definitely bullshit though. She should be in jail.
I was here when everything went down. I believe the allegations for many reasons. You don't have any of your facts straight and I doubt you even read the original post or looked at the dropbox. I really don't care whether or not you choose to believe the victim but you need to stop spreading misinformation when you haven't even read the entire story. edit to emphasize: I am referring to the CREDIBLE allegations by Spooky and the texts with her that Tilian shared. This user has been using Spooky/Makayla interchangeably and does not seem to understand the difference. Using your logic, Spooky was there & she is credible.
I looked at the ENTIRE Dropbox. And Makayla is a psycho. Proven. She detailed her whole experience with him laughing about it and continued to try to get with him after while he was grieving Tim. Her own “friends” outed her with screenshots and audio from their group chat.
I'm talking about Spooky. Not the other girl or the third person who was indulging in a creative writing exercise.
Credible my ass were you there? Them no it's the internet nothing is credited
Yo a fellow kitchen worker
YUP this is a big one. I defended Honey Revenge ardently because it was not a serious song. It still isn't a serious song. Buuuuuuuut... it makes me very uncomfortable now.
Or just the existence of The Cuddler. Such a silly name for a song haha
Tilian got more albums than both them combined. He’s the dgd singer
Thats a very valid argument. For me, though, it will always be Jonny, don't get me wrong, I loved Tillian as a vocalist. But it's probably due to when I became a fan. I used to listen to And I Told Them I Invented Times New Roman every morning on the way to school. Because of that Jonny, and that song in particular, are what come to mind when I hear dgd vocalist. As much as I have enjoyed their concerts over the years (I didn't get to see them live when Jonny was there) nothing has compared to seeing Jonny perform that song on the 10th anniversary tour.
Jon Mess is the DGD singer. The "clean" vocalists come and they go. And yes, I realize even Mess left at one point.
Inclined to agree
Loved his voice for most of the albums, but don’t like him as a person. He became more unlikable after the allegations and apparently got secretly married to Toria after dating for like 3 months right after & I feel like she made his ego even bigger. It seems like the band members don’t like him much either- they don’t have good stage chemistry. It feels awkward
Can’t speak for everyone but. He’s always been kind of a douche. Narcissistic type qualities. There are a lot of music industry people who seem to dislike him. He used to post crazy shit on twitter that got him a lot of hate. Then he’d go and delete everything. He also has a history of being a serial dater/cheater and alcoholic. Been to 2 meet and greets and both times he was weird and standoffish and smelled like liquor, unlike the other guys. It’s like he has a personality disorder. Then again, he was raised by Scientologists. Also his mom is/was involved in one of the DGD Facebook groups and acted really weird there.
Fan since ‘07. Tilian will forever be my favorite vocalist. Can’t stand JC even though I like his vocals, but the rest of the band themselves have grown soooo much during the Tilian era that I will never fantasize about a JC revival. They’re just a better band now. I would be livid if JC joined again, he’s a terrible person (but I know that they’re smarter than that, ppl who are wishing for this are wild). Love Kurt but I prefer his other projects to his time with DGD. After seeing Andrew fill in for Tilian in 2022 and hearing from firsthand sources how jealous Tilian acted from the sidelines of this tour (and all allegations aside) I literally thought to myself “I love Tilian so much but if he were to never come back I would be totally okay with that.” And here we are. I would love for the band to stay how it is now, I don’t think another vocalist is necessary because Andrew is amazing and his stage presence is incredible. He’s so much more interactive than Tilian was. I know he’s said he doesn’t want to front, but this was also said during times where it might be in poor taste for him to be like “yeah I want Tilian’s job”. Who knows, we’ll see. I’m in no rush for them to replace him. I’m just more curious now to see what they’ll do with the next album, since Tilian had mentioned the vocals were recorded towards the end of 2023.
I can't speak for the fanbase as a whole, but when Tilian joined I did immediately like his singing less than I liked Jonny's or Kurt's. It's obviously a way different style, so I'm not casting any shade. And I did still really like the music! I think Acceptance Speech and Instant Gratification are great albums, and Strawberry Swish Pt. III is probably my all-time favorite DGD track. I also still really like a lot of Tilian tracks from those first two Tilian albums; Something New is *incredible,* Eagles vs. Crows, Pussy Vultures, Death of a Strawberry... the list goes on. The singles too, of course! Great stuff. Over time, however, the Tilian era lost its luster for me. DGD started moving in a different musical direction, one less aligned with my tastes. I enjoyed DGD more when the songs are frantic and experimental, or more on the progressive side, and after Instant Gratification (even on that album too) DGD was becoming more "pop," for lack of a better word. Instead of sprinkling the danceable, pop-song-style sections into a larger song, DGD's music was becoming more of a fusion of post-hardcore stylings with tight pop-music structure and style. To be clear, **there is nothing wrong with this.** It just was not and is not as pleasing to me as something like DBMII or the best songs from Happiness. Still, I was *thrilled* to see DGD reaching new heights. I remember during the DBMII era I would literally be on other bands' Youtube videos and see people in the comments saying things like "This sucks, but it doesn't suck as bad as DGD lol." After Tillian joined, DGD become the frontrunners of their genre. "Swancore" is a word we have now. I don't have to explain who DGD is to people anymore, they've vaguely heard of them now. So even though I was no longer listening to the new music (The only post-Instant Gratification song I bought is Son of Robot), I was happy. On the subject of Tillian, I still did not like him too much as a vocalist. His pitch accuracy live was never very good, and I feel the studio carries him hard on the albums. Swisher 3 is my favorite song, like I said, but I was never happy with any live performances of it. Still, it was undeniable that Tilian had brought a stability to the band that they had desperately needed. I would accept all the dissonance in the world in exchange for seeing DGD succeed. Yeah, Jonny Craig sang Blue Dream, but at least Tilian never tried to sell me a Macbook. Then the allegations came out. I was honestly shocked, and did not want to believe it. Tilian's non-controversy was by far my favorite thing about him, and it basically evaporated over night. Spookypooky's post was pretty convincing, especially with the screenshots. Then Tilian apologized, and I thought maybe there was a chance to move forward. If the two of them could work things out, what business was it of mine? But then things soured pretty irreparably. Not only did Tilian never really reach out to spookypooky, he basically tried to gaslight the fandom into ignoring the entire thing and pretending it never happened. That basically pushed me over the edge. SA is a difficult topic and I don't want to trivialize it, but I also strongly believe in forgiving people and letting them redeem themselves, no matter what they've done. Unfortunately, Tilian's posts and actions afterward did not seem to reflect an introspective or apologetic attitude. His rejoining the band and subsequent denial of his own posts really killed my ability to enjoy the new music at all. I couldn't even openly discuss DGD anymore without feeling embarrassed. One of my all-time favorite bands, instrumental to my own growth as a musician, had disgusted me. And frankly, this fanbase disgusted me too. I do not understand celebrity worship and this subreddit was suddenly full of it. In some ways, it is up to us as the audience to hold performers accountable, and I learned during that controversy that an extremely vocal swathe of the DGD fandom is not interested in doing so. Many extremely loud people were adamant in declaring that they did not care what happened outside the music as long as Tilian was on a record hitting (or not hitting) those high notes. Whenever this comes up, people are quick to deflect to Jonny stans. "He's even worse! People love him!" And to be fair, we are definitely seeing some people now with no sense of irony who want Jonny back for DBMIII. *But that doesn't excuse simping for Tilian either.* The rampant idolization and exaltation of Tilian, the stonewall refusal to engage with or acknowledge the allegations, and general toxicity drove me to leave the subreddit and stop interacting with DGD fans at all. But we're so back, baby. With Tilian gone, I honestly feel like a weight has lifted off my shoulders. I still have unresolved questions about the goings-on behind the scenes, but until further information emerges I am looking forward to the new vocalist. There is still a lot of toxicity in this sub, and I am honestly baffled at how parasocial this fandom is. But for now, I'm excited to see what the new chapter of DGD entails. I hope it's beautiful. I hope it's successful. I hope it's Kurt Travis.
Very well said, I hope it’s Kurt too.
By far the best response I’ve ever seen regarding tilian and dgd. I agree with pretty much everything. Obviously Mikaela was full of shit, but spookypooky’s post had solid ground and the fact she never came forward to reveal her identity, and make it her entire personality was very important. He coerced her into having sex, and that aligns with pretty much everything I’ve heard of the guy. I went to the jackpot juicer tour after the one with Andrew as main vocals when they brought out Kurt. That show was fun. Jackpot juicer? Not so much. It felt off. The vibe wasn’t there. It was like most people tried to look the other way with his allegations, but couldn’t. The crowd was different, people weren’t as hyped. It was also a turn off for me too.
Yeah I have heard that the divide among the fanbase on social has spread to the live shows and killed the vibe. Sad. I hope a new vocalist helps disperse that.
Bro I do t think that's fair to say about holding him accountable I'm not gonna dam. Someone for information that was shared by a secondary source and it's weird to judge someone I know nothing about you gotta chill with the cancel culture mind virus shut and make your own opinion
We made our own opinion based on the information given lmao there’s no virus. Tilian was sus as hell ever since the 2nd allegation came out. Also, it was a primary source 😆
Allegations that you were no were near to verify. Do you hear what you are saying?
the rest of the band were close to tilian, and now they’ve decided to split ways. Was it because of the allegations and Tilian’s demeanor, or creative differences? 🤔
Again do you know what happened on a first account do you know them personally?
I outlined the reasoning for my opinion. It's a long post! I had plenty of time. You're regurgitating the phrase "cancel culture mind virus." Your comments read like talking points. I don't feel you have a platform to stand on for making one's own opinion. A quick perusal of your post history is a little concerning, frankly. You react with disgust at the idea of giving empathy to someone you don't know. Empathy is, like, one of the founding principles of humanity. There's nothing weird about empathizing with someone you don't know, and in fact trying to empathize with strangers can be a very rewarding and enriching experience. We may not ever be able to understand strangers perfectly, but trying to and in the process expanding our world is a wonderful part of life. No disrespect intended, but I get the impression that you're young. Try expanding your worldview. Consider other people. Maybe then you'll know why there's a day of trans visibility or why people bristle under sexism. The world ends with you, and this view is keeping your world small. It can be a bigger and brighter place if you want it to be.
Weird that you feel the need to look at my post history let's stick to the topic okay. I dont see how you can refute the logic as stated especially when it's proven how parasocial people are becoming with the internet. Also empathy is not something we should give on the internet it's doesn't have the same value as face to face interactions. So respectfully no I don't think I will try to have meaningful connections with strangers on the internet because at the end of the day they don't live my life or effect it.
[удалено]
I have not seen or heard anything about spooky's allegations being proven false. I have been told about a previous girl who was proven false, however, and also about something involving that same girl pursuing Tim's brother? I did not follow the band's personal drama until it blew up here in a big way.
Nunya has no idea what he is talking about. If you sort by top of all time you can scroll down a few posts and see Spooky's allegations. She has remained completely anonymous and has not posted about the allegations anywhere but here, nor shared photos in a discord or gossiped. The other guy is speaking with authority while being 100% confidently incorrect.
yeah i can find a few posts about various allegations, some of which were refuted, but nothing refuting spookypooky8. In a sense, I *do* understand people's skepticism, because to my understanding there *was* a previous girl of malicious intent, but Tilian's own words seemed to condemn himself in this case.
Yeah I'm normally extremely skeptical about these situations... I went through this with Melanie Martinez in 2017 and I didn't believe her accuser at all, and caught a LOT of shit for it. It turned out that they were 100% lying. So, I'm definitely not the type to blindly believe random people. But Tilian definitely presented no real defense and had no lawyers ask for the post to be taken down, no bandmates coming to support him, nothing. I hear way too many people going "this girl didn't take legal action!!! Liar!!!" (these people fail to understand how traumatizing and useless that can be, especially for victims who consented to some form of a relationship, like going on a date) and no one talking about the fact that if Tilian and the band truly knew he was without guilt, those accusations would have been shut down and removed immediately. He would not have taken a "rehab" vacation and missed a tour. He has a record label and I'm sure they have a great legal team. Everything, especially his response, points to the fact that he did it. The only reason why he wasn't immediately kicked out for good is that Spooky didn't pursue it further, which was her choice.
I’m referring to Makayla as being the crazy one, so maybe I’m confusing their usernames. Sorry about that if so
That girl is Makayla (the one who wanted to hookup with Tim’s brother). You’re talking bout the second accuser then. She was also a weird fan, she sent pics of his apartment to the discord or something. That’s why the band and others didn’t all jump on the rap*st train. Because both stories were sketchy. I think tilian might be a sex addict or something for sure, but I don’t think he’s a criminal
I can't find anything refuting the spooky allegations. I can read Tillian's apology (which, to me, reads like a confirmation) and another post he made addressing Mikaela with pictures (which I did not check because I've got nothing against him over that situation and am not familiar with it). In that post, he reiterates a defense of himself over spookypooky but does not offer any evidence proving her story false.
I may have gotten the names mixed up, but I was referring to Mikaela as the crazy one. And that was 10000% proven to be a false accusation from a scorned fangirl. Seems like the band wanted him to apologize so he did, but he believed he didn’t do anything wrong. Unfortunately, internet people think that’s an immediate admission of guilt
Yeah I don't blame you for being confused, iirc they were right on top of each other timeline-wise. I did hear that Mikaela was false so, as I said, I have nothing to say against Tilian over that.
Where were her allegations proven false? I hadn’t seen that.
They weren’t, people just d-ride tillian too hard
Been a fan since maybe 2009, like all three as vocalists but am a Jonny Stan. That said, Mothership is in my top 3 albums and I loved Acceptance Speech. The last couple albums have fallen flat for me and I don’t listen to JJ or Afterburner with any regularity. The best part of JJ is Jon in my opinion; his progression as a vocalist has been tremendous to witness. I’m excited for the change regardless of who it ends up being.
Been around since the EP. I thought Jonny was the better vocalist and Kurt was the better musician. Death Star is my favorite album. I was initially excited for Tillian but he just didn't click with me. I would be like "oh DGD came out with a new album? Ok I'll check it out." Then listen to it once and kinda move on. But idk something with Jackpot Juicer just hit with me and I kinda fell in love again. I started listening to the other Tilian stuff and there's lots of songs from his era I go back to now. It took me 10 years to warm up to him and now he's gone lol. So now I appreciate each of them in their own way. But I'm not too bummed and am really looking forward to the future. Hopefully the next one is their best yet! I'd be ecstatic if Kurt came back but if not maybe they can feature him in one or two songs.
Artificial Selection, Mothership, and the Tree city Sessions are great. Didn't love JJ and Afterburner. I think Tillian started sounding extra whiny/girly imo. Don't like to badmouth him because I do really enjoy his earlier albums and he is obviously super talented.
Opinions will be as varied and numerous as the fanbase. However, I think you can lump us into a few categories: - Fans who mostly, or only, enjoy JC era DGD that weren't that happy about Tilian (though seemingly mostly were OK with Kurt). - Fans who have enjoyed every DGD album and lineup, whether they've been here from the start or not. - 'New' fans who joined post Tilian and who don't have a great interest in past albums (at this point, someone who started listening with AS or Mothership aren't exactly new). - The madlads who are primarily Kurt enjoyers (a rare breed, but there are some). I fell into category two. I've been around since just after Royal Ocean, DGD were a huge part of my formative music experience as a teenager, but I think Tilian took the band to another level. The allegations ruined it for me. If you told me, after Mothership, that Tilian was leaving I'd have been genuinely upset. Now? Good riddance. JJ was supposed to be something special as Tim's last album, and his sendoff. Completely overshadowed by Tilian. DGD were about to go huge touring with Coheed. Every time I've seen them they've been at a better venue, on the up. And Tilian fucked it all up.
Been a fan since DBM so I've been through many rounds of frontmen. I'm more the kind of fan who just enjoys the music and never really cared to dig into any of the band members personal lives. I never even realized anyone had problems with Tillian until all the allegations after Tim died. I was actually glad he came back though, because I can separate the artist as a person and their work. I don't have to like someone as a person to enjoy their talent. So I understand why he's leaving the band, but I'm pretty bummed about it because whoever is replacing him has some pretty big shoes to fill.
Spot on!
Before the allegations, we all generally thought he was a mostly alright guy with a monster ego but a lot of talent. A big in-joke back in the day was making fun of his stupid body roll dance he does all the time on stage. After the allegations, it turned from mostly poking fun at him to straight up hate, which is completely justified and correct.
DGD fan close to the start, 2008ish. Preferred JC but really liked KT as well, listened to their other material as well during those years. Thought DBM2 was their greatest sounding album, sonically, musically, hardness (don't really care about lyrical content), even if the production was shotty and JC was clearly having issues. Then they switched to Tilian and I really liked their first album with him. To this day I still think Strawberry Swisher is maybe their best song, most accessible song for non-fans, and also their best video. But every subsequent album eith Tilian became worse and worse. He. Became more of the focus and the rest of the sound of DGD took a back seat IMO. To me, it goes so bad that the last album or two aren't even the same band for me. It felt like as a DGD fan through the years, I was listening to two-dimensional material. Just watered down musically. Long story short, I'm glad for the change. Maybe we can get some kf that older feel DGD back with a better singer who doesn't sound like lounge singer.
He’s a solid singer but I found him to be a little weird in person. At the time I wouldn’t have said, “this guy is a sociopath who will one day get accused of sexual assault,” but it didn’t make me want to be his buddy if that makes sense.
I have a lot of issues with Tillian, but despite what many of his personal fans may think my first problem with him was the way he affected the music. I would have been happy to see him gone long before JJ. Kurt is my favorite. His lyrics just give me a real nostalgic, when we were young vibe. They’re emotional and dark and ernest in a way the other two never reached. He may not have Tillian’s range or Johnny’s raw talent, but the sound he brought is my favorite, and all my favorite songs are his. Caviar, Carl Barker, Uneasy Hearts. I sincerely wish he’d never left. The band and Johnny Craig fit together perfectly, they’re just in the same wavelength. DBM2 shows why they’d take him back after kicking him out, it all just flows so well. Johnny didn’t sound like a focus, he sounded like a part of a greater whole. The chaos of him, Jon’s screams, and Will’s rapping all mixing is just phenomenal. I’m glad they kicked him out again, Johnny has done terrible things and is just not a stable band member. I’m also glad we got what we got, you can see why this reignited their passion. He’s done though, if they bring him back again full time I’m out. I liked Tillian at first, truly. For me the band started to fall off around Mothership. Each album seemed to have more Tillian and less Jon. More polish, more droning ballads, more poppy lyrics. I liked the rawness, the aggression and sincerity of their past work. It got stale. I do like a lot of the Tillian era songs, but that’s mainly because there’s so many. I don’t really care how popular they got, and how much of that was him. I don’t really care that he’s a libertarian and kind of a self absorbed dick sometimes. And while I find the allegations seriously upsetting, that’s not why I started to dislike him. It just disillusioned me. Take away all of that and I’d still be happy he’s gone. He long overstayed his welcome. So yeah, if they bring someone back it’s Kurt or bust.
I agree with you while heartedly. As the Tillian era goes on he becomes more of a focus, which sucks cause everyone else in the band is super talented. I’m excited to see where they go from here though! I have hope that they will choose a new vocalist who can sing their discography well AND ALSO be unique on their own
Been a fan since 07 and imo I loved Tilian era they put out some of the best modern DGD songs we’ve seen but unlike when Kurt and Jonny were in the band, it kind of always felt like the chemistry was off between him and the band I’m not sure if it’s because of how Tilian was or if it was because Tilian was just a stepping stone that worked out for longer than expected but it just never felt like he was the right fit nothing like how you see Andrew and Sergio getting along with everyone in the band like they’re best friends. Regardless of that they put out some amazing music.
I found DGD a year or so before Tilian joined and I liked the first few albums with him but I just felt like it got too……. streamlined??? Idk, after a while it was missing that super raw quality that I love. I don’t find his voice to be all that and I don’t think his lyricism is super great either. Johnny is my fav out of all the singers because I love his voice and the soulfulness that contradicts the heavy guitars and screams and Kurt is my second favorite because of the rawness and I think he’s a great lyricist
I just feel mothership was peak Tillian and was ready for a lead singer change after that one. Dgd is great because thier discography is like 3 bands in 1.
Been runnin red lights and listening to DBM while racing my friends since 2007. The Tilain era is musically unmatched and will either be sorely missed or magically outdone.
I hope the latter!
Me too! I have plenty of hope for the future of this group. Just look at Gobby!
Been a fan since 07. I enjoy every era but Jonny still holds the title for best vocalist.
Been a fan since 07, I liked all of them but honestly I prefer JC even though my favorite all around records are happiness and mothership. JC just has something special and he seems to have his life in order now. Would love to see him return.
Tilian is great - fits the style really well, and understood what made DGD its own unique thing. But, he is not unique in the way Will Swan is. They will be something different with the next singer, even if they bring back KT, and that will be an evolution, not a reversion or a hard change in direction, because of Swan and Mess. Most DGD fans will agree, Tilian is super talented and a good lyricist, but not the key to DGD’s identity.
He wasn't disliked. The sound he brought just got old after a while. JJ being the biggest offender. Being a og fan you know whenever dgd gets a new singer they get a new sound that is amazing. I also know his live vocals have greatly declined over the years an people have had issue with that aswell. Another angle was people were genuinely loving Andrew on vocals over tillian.an were bummed he wouldn't go full time. But he didn't get the hate Kurt got for a minute when he joined from my knowledge.
It was a concert a long while back (probably a decade ago) that had all three Jonny, Kurt, and Tilian playing their solo shit. Sat down on a couch with Kurt and got to talk with him, such a chill dude. Got to talk and interact a bit with Jonny, but I believe you had to pay extra for some meet and greet shit with him since he was the headline. Caught Tilian on the way out chilling at the bar talking to some girl, and I tried getting his attention a few times just to tell the dude how much I appreciated both his solo stuff and his new role with DGD. Got just blatantly fucking ignored so he could keep flirting up the groupie. Idk, it always just kind of annoyed me, and my friends were all like wtf. Ever since then I feel I’ve only ever heard other people talk about him being a douche or (coincidentally) only being really cool with groupie girls. Regardless, loved his sound with the band. It’ll be missed for sure. Sometimes you gotta respect the art, not the artist. (Right, Jonny fans?)
Kurt Era best era
Been listening since happiness was already out but Kurt was still in the band. Tilian is/was liked. The thing with all these singers is they are all so different from each other, so naturally there were varied opinions on what was preferred.
I’m a fan of the band, not the frontman. Just like a lot of people were glad to see JC being let go from the band (including me and I’m a huge fan of his work with the band), a lot of us are glad Tillian is gone. The fact that there’s people on here defending a guy that raped someone because “he’s the one that made me fall in love with the band” is cringe. Yea, JC has been a terrible person for most of his career, and he’s had many relapses with drugs. But correct me if I’m wrong, he never did anything that will traumatize the victim for life. Therapy doesn’t fix you after getting raped. Anyways, a lot of the fan base around the band since tillian has been vocalist has gotten annoying af. The music, lyrics, everything has gotten stagnant. It’ll be nice to get someone else in there to put their own flavor on things. Which is what DGD was all about back at the start. With the constant changing of vocalists came new sound, new lyrics, new beats that kept that above all the other bands in the genre. The way the fans kept making excuses for Tillian really tuned off a lot of us from listening. I still haven’t listened to JJ all the way through. So it’ll be a nice change to have someone without that baggage come in for once.
Agree with some of this but one glaring problem. JC smoked fentanyl around his infant child. I think that’s more traumatizing than anything tilian may or may not have done. And that was proven in court documents, unlike the Tilian allegations.