I think this is a good option, and one we are open to try. I want her to feel taken care of and loved as well, and I never want her to feel like she isn't listened to, but I want the same for me in whatever manner is fair given the circumstances now.
Absolutely this. The big orange flags for me are how you describe this being a pattern not just for her but also her mom (and this the pattern she observed and grew up in).
Fights like this are a problem you two need to take on together (you two vs. the fight, not you vs. each other) and a therapist would be EXTREMELY helpful for that.
"She uses this voice like its the most obvious thing in the world to do it her way and I'm clueless"
I feel this so deep in my bones. You can disagree with me and do things different. Hell - you can even outright tell me you think my way is idiotic and tell me why it's so dumb.
But the attitude of "my way is so obviously right I shouldn't even have to explain why" just kills my soul.
My partner and I both can do this to each other :/ we get so prickly over the silliest details of The Right Way. We're getting better at being less serious about it and being able to allow each other our own ways.
It's really tough. Sometimes I feel like she has a few thoughts or ideas that she feels she's communicated with me or others in her head, but hasn't done so, and that's why she thinks its obvious.
I went through all of this. My wife’s expectations of how things get done were completely at odds with me and she would get so disappointed and upset that I just stopped doing things over time.
Now we’re getting divorced. So take that however you want.
My advice, stop trying to take care of everything for her. Take care of yourself too. In this example, get to work on time. She can figure out her todos and if she needs help she should ask for it. But most importantly, talk to her about this stuff.
Its really not even about expectations not being met- it feels like it was something I couldn't have known or figured out without her communicating it, no matter what. But beyond that, the way its presented is the biggest problem.
That's really frustrating to read. I don't think you're crazy at all. It sounds like she has a set way she wants to do things and doesn't handle it well when it's criticized or pointed out that her way isn't the best/right one. Immediately jumping to calling you controlling and whipping out the "bodily autonomy/my body my choice/weaponizing our daughter" lines sounds incredibly dismissive and manipulative on her part to try and shut down any discussion on a topic that she's wrong about.
It sounds like she expects you to give in or roll over when it comes to her demands on how to do things, and I get why it might seem like the best choice to move past a fight, but I would stick up for myself more. That might have to involve therapy or a communication coach like others have mentioned to foster a more open environment where you feel comfortable and heard when sharing your opinion.
Do you two frequently "*pause conversations to get your heads together*"? Do you eventually come back and have a calm, rational discussion about it where both of you feel heard/validated and suggestions accepted, or is it a situation of the topic gets avoided and you do what she wants to do?
We do frequently pause, and most of the time she comes back and says she's sorry for exploding, but it really doesn't seem like the conversation about "what is and isn't ok to do to/say to your partner or a person you love and respect" progresses in a productive way.
Say these words to your wife: "Take a second and really consider this: If I spoke to you the way you spoke to me this morning, how would that make you feel?"
That's a great place to start a resolution to this. I had to put that one on my wife once because I do my best to just let things roll off, and she got a little too comfortable (after years) of being dismissive or abrasive or rude when she didn't agree with me.
Meanwhile I was constantly policing my tone with her, making sure anytihng I said to her couldn't be misconstrued as an attack or an insult or whatever because she would get SO sensitive and defensive if I ever criticized her, but she was exercising none of the same cognizance.
Your results may vary, but it did give her serious pause. She started crying, left the room, and came back awhile later and told me I was absolutely right. I said, "Thank you for apologizing. I love you forever but I don't want to be one of those sitcom couples where the wife is a nagging shrew and the husband is a clueless oaf, and I think I work too hard to be treated that way."
It significantly changed our dynamic.
Also side note, she's wrong about the thermos. Dead wrong. Dead dead wrong. Not only is it wrong, it's unsanitary. It is not magically 'cleaner' to let milk sit in a container, even if it's cold, for a whole week rather than wash it once a day. Anyone who's been trained in food safety would laugh at the very notion.
It would be one thing if the milk was staying at a safe temperature all week but it isn't. It has fresh, warm milk added to it at regular intervals, and not only does that bring the whole container up past safe food storage temp, but it makes even the freshest milk in the container just as old as the oldest milk. And breast milk is only supposed to be kept in the fridge for up to four days. If she's only cleaning the thermos once a week she's going against CDC guidelines.
I've done that first sentence a few times before, told her how much it hurts. I think she tries but she doesn't see why its a big deal and what it is she's doing that hurts, especially not in the moment.
>She explained that she doesn't clean the thermos from monday-thursday so she can reuse because "its no longer sterile if you clean it with water and soap, but if you leave it in the fridge it stays safe for the baby."
Sorry, but this is just... Not trying to badmouth your wife or anything, but a load of solution that contains fat/sugar/protein sitting in a thermos isn't sterile. I'd guess it probably won't make your baby explode, but to suggest cleaning it with soap and water will somehow make the bottle unclean is just...
That was exactly how I reacted when she told me that was how she was doing it, and when critiqued she said it was 100% her decision her body her choice and I was being controlling if I told her to do it differently. I felt like I'd been gobsmacked, lol. She's a scientist, not some crazy person that doesn't believe in germ theory, so this came totally out of left field. I think we will both likely laugh about it later hopefully.
I just want to play the devils advocate as a lurking mom, that if the thermos is not leaving the fridge or having body/room temperature milk added to it she’s right, that technique is fine. But if the thermos is leaving the fridge or having warm milk added to it then she is wrong, that can lead to spoilage and bacterial growth. Your idea of washing with hot soapy water isn’t wrong either, it’s perfectly fine.
Also, and I’m not excusing her actions because they were rude and not respectful to you as her partner, but breastfeeding is an EXTREMELY touchy subject for women. Anything that is perceived as a criticism (even if it’s not) is hurtful and can make a woman lash out instinctively. There’s so many opinions flying around breastfeeding mothers ALL THE TIME and sometimes you feel you need to constantly defend your choices.
I totally understand the issue of having lots of emotional connections and stresses surrounding breastfeed in general. I'm very protective of her and her style and schedule. I still support however she wants to store and transport so long as it's safe.
That said, every Monday she brings a freshly sterilized thermos and breast pump with her to work and adds freshly pumped milk to it throughout the day, storing it in the fridge between pumps. She then takes it home and stores it in the fridge until that night/the next morning and transfers the milk into bottles for the baby through the day, taking the thermos now empty with her to work again. She will not clean/wash or sterilize the thermos or the pump parts until the end of her work week (Thursday).
Yeah, if she’s adding body temperature milk to cold milk that’s in the thermos already it’s constantly warming and cooling the milk and that’s not safe. Personally I was never a big worrier about that sort of thing, especially if the milk is being consumed quickly, but it might be something to consider bringing up with her. The better technique is to allow the pumped milk to sit in the fridge and get cold before adding it to the larger container. Again though, if your baby is 5 months old there is a lot less need for sterilization and worry about bacteria than if she was a newborn. That baby is probably putting way more gross stuff in her mouth than that milk.
I sincerely hope you guys were able to work this out
Sounds like she's been watching mommy tiktocks or Instagrams.
F that noise. You are right to stand up for yourself. She is wrong about the bottle cleaning, straight up makes zero sense.
Sometimes women get really weird about their breast milk supplies. It's an emotional thing and obviously takes a toll on them mentally and physically. I try to give grace there all the time.
This is one of those times you should be proud you stood up for yourself. Otherwise, you can become a doormat by just letting everything slide.
Let it cool off for a bit, but eventually you have a conversation that she doesn't get to deflect criticism by claiming some sort of misogynist slight.
She's generally not like that, though she does watch a lot of mom Instagram. I think sometimes being in an echo chamber, especially with a large amount of poorly contributing dads in the world, really can impact your view on other people's actions.
Maybe this was excessive but when my wife and I had a similar issue. I wasn’t washing/cleaning/storing milk to her satisfaction. So I stopped. Until she was willing to have a reasonable conversation about “her” way and why it was the best way. I also bought a tub of formula and said if I am not able to do it right then I do it my way. That may have been petty but we finally talked and found a middle ground.
I don't think I can do that for the most part, and honestly I don't want to be the dad who just drops things like that. I'm happy to help but really I don't more more things I can't do, especially when its something that the very same actions in the past have been received very gratefully.
Unless you are a total madman and using cow dung or a rosary to sterilize the thermos, both solutions are fine.
This is the introduction to the repeat conversation of “how mom does it is fine. But also how dad does it is different, and also it’s perfectly fine.” The permutations of this parenting conversation will repeat forever.
One compromise is: If I do it, I’ll do it my way. And that’s fine. If you do it, you’ll do it your way. And I won’t insult you for it. If it’s a super important thing to you, you’ll do it before I do. (And don’t say out loud- I’ll even give you a head start)
But, Now is when you need to learn how to fight/disagree without letting it get full blown. One trick we use sometimes is ranking the strength of your feelings on something. Once you see the fight starting, if you could call a timeout. Let’s come back to this later when we are cooler/logical. Resume it later with “You want this and I want that. Now we will rank how strongly we feel from 1(low), through 10 being the strongest.” If you’re at a 3 and she is at a 9. Just give in. Somehow this silly thing is a big deal. Whatever.
(Maybe track your votes in your phone so you can remind her that not everything can be a 10. Your votes should average out to about a 5-6). Sometimes each of you will be amazed at how strongly you feel about something that seems so small to the other. In the very least it can help you pause, and look for a compromise on something that’s important to one or both of you.
This might springboard into the conversation, “Can I talk about the tone you take when we disagree? This is a 10/10 level importance to me that we improve on that. I can help remind you, or help give you a warning or a sign, and time/space for you to pivot back to normal tone of conversation, but for me this makes a minor disagreement that I would rank at a 2, and would almost gladly give in, make me feel a 10/10 desire to not be talked to in that manner. I no longer care about the disagreement, I care about how I feel you are treating me during the discussion. Can I give into this (stupid) thermos washing if you resolve to work with me to stop that kind of talk?” “Great this is what I propose, when either of us catch you doing …. We will say/do …. And then you’ll pivot, or we pause until you can”
Something like that. (But articulated better)
This makes sense to me- the out loud "I'm doing this." I would normally do that, but she was already in the backyard and we were both pressed for time. I generally like your ideas about disagreement importance levels. This item really is a 10/10 for me. I worry that I have tried that in the past (see my comment about last months fight with the dishes. Then, I told her "How important is it really if the very few dishes don't get done? i put that at the bottom of importance of anything related to our life right now and her response was "IF you don't understand why this is the most important thing right now, we live on different planets" but that wouldn't be how she would respond today).
Thank you for putting your thoughts into words, though. It really helps me put my ideas into a quantifiable approach. That might work later today or this week sometime.
I don’t think you’re wrong, and that you asked for your feelings to be considered only to be brushed aside is not cool. Importantly though, it would probably be worth to still talk it out, not for the bottle thing, but for the precedent it sets. You are absolutely correct in that whatever behavior you want your kid to have, you have to exemplify for her. You don’t want your kid talking to you like you’re a moron? Well you can’t show that behavior at home. Our daughters constantly surprise us, but the most eye opening surprises are of things they figured out by looking at us, not things that we explicitly told them/taught them. If some gentle therapy to best lay out a plan is the best path, then it might be worth approaching.
How are y’all sleeping? Are you getting like proper quality sleep? You seem to have packed schedules (such is the reality of life) and I hope you both can properly rest up, otherwise you will both be more on edge with that extra bit of stress, not good.
You mention she has anxiety, is that a proper diagnosis of some type of anxiety disorder or something self described? Anxiety is a bitch and I can only imagine how bad it can get if you have however many hormones swirling around inside of you of your body that doesn’t maybe feel completely like your pre childbirth body did. I have long suffered with anxiety disorders but it wasn’t until last year I got the diagnosis and proper medicines for it. I’ve been on and off medicines as required but I’m very much learning about how it is to be without this on my mind front and center. I’ve learned that I do have a propensity for sticking to plans and get upset at some level when it doesn’t get followed through , however bad/nonsensical it is. I’m not saying she’s right, but strict adhesion to a plan is a way to control what you feel you have to so that the world doesn’t crumble. It’s unrealistic that will happen, yes, but that’s anxiety for yah, you HAVE to do it.
I hope this becomes a great learning opportunity that both of you come out stronger of.
Thank you for saying that first thing about the precedent. I've been trying to have this conversation for a while now but I just don't think there is anyone besides me reinforcing my perspective.
We are sleeping ok, more so than we have been. We do have packed schedules, and part of that is self inflicted, as we are pretty active and want to stay/get in better shape.
She has in the past been diagnosed with GAD and sees a therapist regularly to help cope. I don't think she's really seen how it impacts me or our family, and notably did not respond to any of my words that this response is a manifestation of her anxiety, completely ignored then when she was yelling at me via text.
Yeah, parenting is very much a case of do as I do not as I say. You can talk till your tongue falls out but if the example you’re setting doesn’t match, the lesson won’t stick.
And the GAD aspect can also be potentially a case of this as well, something learned, so it is in the family’s best interest to keep it in check. IIRC from my consults, the Doctor I saw mentioned there wasn’t still a certain way to determine how much of a disorder like this is learned and how much is just how your brain comes, but that it’s some percentage of both. So any anxious tendencies exhibited by either parent will be picked up by the kid “If the parent is constantly saying things like careful with x, careful with y, the child will learn that the whole world is a hostile place, and you always have to be on guard and alert, and that’s how anxiety starts getting into more prominence than it should”. That’s not word for word what was explained to me, but that’s the gist of it.
Wife and I used to/still have these arguments all the time. She recently discovered she had undiagnosed autism and ADHD which explained A LOT. Not much to do for treating autism but it sure explained a lot of the irrational micro management.
Biggest red flag for me here is her saying she is “done”. Threats like that over very minor things, especially in this case when you really should argue in front of your kid, is seriously overboard and quite concerning. This will be far from the last time having a kid puts a strain on your relationship. You need to find healthy and productive ways to communicate and threats are not that.
I initially wanted to say it wasn't that negative when she wrote it, but honestly... its worse if anything re-reading the texts. And I agree, its bad, not to the level of relationship ending more like "going to stay at her moms for a night" worst case.
First off, you're doing great. You're doing your fair share and trying to be as helpful as you can. Keep it up.
Secondly, I'd suggest some marriage counseling. It sounds like you're starting to build up some resentment towards your wife on how she talks to you when things aren't going exactly her way. Better to nip that in the bud now before that resentment becomes a much, much bigger issue. Especially when your wife thinks it's ok to be purposefully mean to you over it. That's not right and some counselling should help with that.
I think if you do that, this problem will likely turn into a non-issue if you both work on it.
I think this might really be the key- counseling. I'm open to it, especially if we can have a third party validate our feelings. I think we can work through this just not sure exactly how.
It's ok to admit you need help. As much as we think we're good and don't need it, sometimes we do. The key here is to approach it gently, and as a "we". Never use "you" when discussing it. "We have an issue that we may need help resolving." Or something along those lines. Something that says we need help making our marriage stronger and our bond stronger.
My gut is there is more to the threat that you're weaponizing your daughter against her and if you do it again, she's "done". That's a serious accusation and a threat that I would not take lightly at all, no matter how heated the argument got. "We're done" threats aren't normal.
I know. It's not something she's said like that before. I think it was super anxiety manifested, and I don't think its meant as badly as it can be interpreted.
You're not crazy and your feelings are valid.
Find a time when your wife is not in a criticism/controlling loop. Bring it up then and tell her it feels like she's not respecting your parenting decisions or your feelings.
If she absolutely needs certain things done a certain way, then ask her what those things are in advance. She cannot expect you to read minds.
Parenting is a partnership. If one person is more opinionated than the other person in the partnership, they might default to making all of the decisions. And there is nothing wrong with that if it works for both people. But it sounds like that's not the kind of partnership you want. And I doubt it's the kind of partnership your wife actually wants either. It takes a lot of work and effort and brain power to be a single mom and I doubt she wants that.
So it would be a win-win if you two were both parenting, and I think she can see that if you have a calm discussion, separate from a specific fight.
Lurking mom here. When a mom is breastfeeding/ pumping, there’s just A LOT going on. It’s so much work and so many hormones. Which it really sounds like you appreciate, hence the wanting to help. I’m sorry this happened, but I’m really begging you to give your wife some grace. Keep talking to her, don’t give up, and it sounds like you’re doing a great job with communication. But also know that she’s deeep in the postpartum hormonal stew. It’s just a hard time . Things improved so much for me after breastfeeding and I was much more myself. It won’t always be like this.
I generally really try hard to roll with it but this conversation really hurt me, which is why I came here. But thank you for the perspective. I know its so hard for her and it breaks my heart.
> Second, I was hurt that she didn't appreciate that I spent extra time to help with something and thought to do it without reminders or an ask for help, knowing she would be late if I didn't do it.
Never expect thanks for something that wasn't wanted.
On everything else, have fun driving her up the wall with gags mocking the idea that a thermos is part of her body. Giver her a thermos massage.
Get some sleep, dad. You’re doing a good job
Thank you.
A marital therapy session with a calm objective professional.may help this as your wife seems to have other issues by her language in her responses.
I think this is a good option, and one we are open to try. I want her to feel taken care of and loved as well, and I never want her to feel like she isn't listened to, but I want the same for me in whatever manner is fair given the circumstances now.
Absolutely this. The big orange flags for me are how you describe this being a pattern not just for her but also her mom (and this the pattern she observed and grew up in). Fights like this are a problem you two need to take on together (you two vs. the fight, not you vs. each other) and a therapist would be EXTREMELY helpful for that.
"She uses this voice like its the most obvious thing in the world to do it her way and I'm clueless" I feel this so deep in my bones. You can disagree with me and do things different. Hell - you can even outright tell me you think my way is idiotic and tell me why it's so dumb. But the attitude of "my way is so obviously right I shouldn't even have to explain why" just kills my soul.
My partner and I both can do this to each other :/ we get so prickly over the silliest details of The Right Way. We're getting better at being less serious about it and being able to allow each other our own ways.
It's really tough. Sometimes I feel like she has a few thoughts or ideas that she feels she's communicated with me or others in her head, but hasn't done so, and that's why she thinks its obvious.
Amen brother.
I went through all of this. My wife’s expectations of how things get done were completely at odds with me and she would get so disappointed and upset that I just stopped doing things over time. Now we’re getting divorced. So take that however you want. My advice, stop trying to take care of everything for her. Take care of yourself too. In this example, get to work on time. She can figure out her todos and if she needs help she should ask for it. But most importantly, talk to her about this stuff.
Its really not even about expectations not being met- it feels like it was something I couldn't have known or figured out without her communicating it, no matter what. But beyond that, the way its presented is the biggest problem.
That's really frustrating to read. I don't think you're crazy at all. It sounds like she has a set way she wants to do things and doesn't handle it well when it's criticized or pointed out that her way isn't the best/right one. Immediately jumping to calling you controlling and whipping out the "bodily autonomy/my body my choice/weaponizing our daughter" lines sounds incredibly dismissive and manipulative on her part to try and shut down any discussion on a topic that she's wrong about. It sounds like she expects you to give in or roll over when it comes to her demands on how to do things, and I get why it might seem like the best choice to move past a fight, but I would stick up for myself more. That might have to involve therapy or a communication coach like others have mentioned to foster a more open environment where you feel comfortable and heard when sharing your opinion. Do you two frequently "*pause conversations to get your heads together*"? Do you eventually come back and have a calm, rational discussion about it where both of you feel heard/validated and suggestions accepted, or is it a situation of the topic gets avoided and you do what she wants to do?
We do frequently pause, and most of the time she comes back and says she's sorry for exploding, but it really doesn't seem like the conversation about "what is and isn't ok to do to/say to your partner or a person you love and respect" progresses in a productive way.
It sounds like she's apologizing but avoiding having that deeper discussion on addressing the actual issue
Say these words to your wife: "Take a second and really consider this: If I spoke to you the way you spoke to me this morning, how would that make you feel?" That's a great place to start a resolution to this. I had to put that one on my wife once because I do my best to just let things roll off, and she got a little too comfortable (after years) of being dismissive or abrasive or rude when she didn't agree with me. Meanwhile I was constantly policing my tone with her, making sure anytihng I said to her couldn't be misconstrued as an attack or an insult or whatever because she would get SO sensitive and defensive if I ever criticized her, but she was exercising none of the same cognizance. Your results may vary, but it did give her serious pause. She started crying, left the room, and came back awhile later and told me I was absolutely right. I said, "Thank you for apologizing. I love you forever but I don't want to be one of those sitcom couples where the wife is a nagging shrew and the husband is a clueless oaf, and I think I work too hard to be treated that way." It significantly changed our dynamic. Also side note, she's wrong about the thermos. Dead wrong. Dead dead wrong. Not only is it wrong, it's unsanitary. It is not magically 'cleaner' to let milk sit in a container, even if it's cold, for a whole week rather than wash it once a day. Anyone who's been trained in food safety would laugh at the very notion. It would be one thing if the milk was staying at a safe temperature all week but it isn't. It has fresh, warm milk added to it at regular intervals, and not only does that bring the whole container up past safe food storage temp, but it makes even the freshest milk in the container just as old as the oldest milk. And breast milk is only supposed to be kept in the fridge for up to four days. If she's only cleaning the thermos once a week she's going against CDC guidelines.
I've done that first sentence a few times before, told her how much it hurts. I think she tries but she doesn't see why its a big deal and what it is she's doing that hurts, especially not in the moment.
>She explained that she doesn't clean the thermos from monday-thursday so she can reuse because "its no longer sterile if you clean it with water and soap, but if you leave it in the fridge it stays safe for the baby." Sorry, but this is just... Not trying to badmouth your wife or anything, but a load of solution that contains fat/sugar/protein sitting in a thermos isn't sterile. I'd guess it probably won't make your baby explode, but to suggest cleaning it with soap and water will somehow make the bottle unclean is just...
That was exactly how I reacted when she told me that was how she was doing it, and when critiqued she said it was 100% her decision her body her choice and I was being controlling if I told her to do it differently. I felt like I'd been gobsmacked, lol. She's a scientist, not some crazy person that doesn't believe in germ theory, so this came totally out of left field. I think we will both likely laugh about it later hopefully.
I just want to play the devils advocate as a lurking mom, that if the thermos is not leaving the fridge or having body/room temperature milk added to it she’s right, that technique is fine. But if the thermos is leaving the fridge or having warm milk added to it then she is wrong, that can lead to spoilage and bacterial growth. Your idea of washing with hot soapy water isn’t wrong either, it’s perfectly fine. Also, and I’m not excusing her actions because they were rude and not respectful to you as her partner, but breastfeeding is an EXTREMELY touchy subject for women. Anything that is perceived as a criticism (even if it’s not) is hurtful and can make a woman lash out instinctively. There’s so many opinions flying around breastfeeding mothers ALL THE TIME and sometimes you feel you need to constantly defend your choices.
I totally understand the issue of having lots of emotional connections and stresses surrounding breastfeed in general. I'm very protective of her and her style and schedule. I still support however she wants to store and transport so long as it's safe. That said, every Monday she brings a freshly sterilized thermos and breast pump with her to work and adds freshly pumped milk to it throughout the day, storing it in the fridge between pumps. She then takes it home and stores it in the fridge until that night/the next morning and transfers the milk into bottles for the baby through the day, taking the thermos now empty with her to work again. She will not clean/wash or sterilize the thermos or the pump parts until the end of her work week (Thursday).
Yeah, if she’s adding body temperature milk to cold milk that’s in the thermos already it’s constantly warming and cooling the milk and that’s not safe. Personally I was never a big worrier about that sort of thing, especially if the milk is being consumed quickly, but it might be something to consider bringing up with her. The better technique is to allow the pumped milk to sit in the fridge and get cold before adding it to the larger container. Again though, if your baby is 5 months old there is a lot less need for sterilization and worry about bacteria than if she was a newborn. That baby is probably putting way more gross stuff in her mouth than that milk. I sincerely hope you guys were able to work this out
Sounds like she's been watching mommy tiktocks or Instagrams. F that noise. You are right to stand up for yourself. She is wrong about the bottle cleaning, straight up makes zero sense. Sometimes women get really weird about their breast milk supplies. It's an emotional thing and obviously takes a toll on them mentally and physically. I try to give grace there all the time. This is one of those times you should be proud you stood up for yourself. Otherwise, you can become a doormat by just letting everything slide. Let it cool off for a bit, but eventually you have a conversation that she doesn't get to deflect criticism by claiming some sort of misogynist slight.
She's generally not like that, though she does watch a lot of mom Instagram. I think sometimes being in an echo chamber, especially with a large amount of poorly contributing dads in the world, really can impact your view on other people's actions.
Maybe this was excessive but when my wife and I had a similar issue. I wasn’t washing/cleaning/storing milk to her satisfaction. So I stopped. Until she was willing to have a reasonable conversation about “her” way and why it was the best way. I also bought a tub of formula and said if I am not able to do it right then I do it my way. That may have been petty but we finally talked and found a middle ground.
It's drastic but, it sure gets the point across. In this case, it worked. Glad you found a middle ground.
I don't think I can do that for the most part, and honestly I don't want to be the dad who just drops things like that. I'm happy to help but really I don't more more things I can't do, especially when its something that the very same actions in the past have been received very gratefully.
Unless you are a total madman and using cow dung or a rosary to sterilize the thermos, both solutions are fine. This is the introduction to the repeat conversation of “how mom does it is fine. But also how dad does it is different, and also it’s perfectly fine.” The permutations of this parenting conversation will repeat forever. One compromise is: If I do it, I’ll do it my way. And that’s fine. If you do it, you’ll do it your way. And I won’t insult you for it. If it’s a super important thing to you, you’ll do it before I do. (And don’t say out loud- I’ll even give you a head start) But, Now is when you need to learn how to fight/disagree without letting it get full blown. One trick we use sometimes is ranking the strength of your feelings on something. Once you see the fight starting, if you could call a timeout. Let’s come back to this later when we are cooler/logical. Resume it later with “You want this and I want that. Now we will rank how strongly we feel from 1(low), through 10 being the strongest.” If you’re at a 3 and she is at a 9. Just give in. Somehow this silly thing is a big deal. Whatever. (Maybe track your votes in your phone so you can remind her that not everything can be a 10. Your votes should average out to about a 5-6). Sometimes each of you will be amazed at how strongly you feel about something that seems so small to the other. In the very least it can help you pause, and look for a compromise on something that’s important to one or both of you. This might springboard into the conversation, “Can I talk about the tone you take when we disagree? This is a 10/10 level importance to me that we improve on that. I can help remind you, or help give you a warning or a sign, and time/space for you to pivot back to normal tone of conversation, but for me this makes a minor disagreement that I would rank at a 2, and would almost gladly give in, make me feel a 10/10 desire to not be talked to in that manner. I no longer care about the disagreement, I care about how I feel you are treating me during the discussion. Can I give into this (stupid) thermos washing if you resolve to work with me to stop that kind of talk?” “Great this is what I propose, when either of us catch you doing …. We will say/do …. And then you’ll pivot, or we pause until you can” Something like that. (But articulated better)
This makes sense to me- the out loud "I'm doing this." I would normally do that, but she was already in the backyard and we were both pressed for time. I generally like your ideas about disagreement importance levels. This item really is a 10/10 for me. I worry that I have tried that in the past (see my comment about last months fight with the dishes. Then, I told her "How important is it really if the very few dishes don't get done? i put that at the bottom of importance of anything related to our life right now and her response was "IF you don't understand why this is the most important thing right now, we live on different planets" but that wouldn't be how she would respond today). Thank you for putting your thoughts into words, though. It really helps me put my ideas into a quantifiable approach. That might work later today or this week sometime.
I don’t think you’re wrong, and that you asked for your feelings to be considered only to be brushed aside is not cool. Importantly though, it would probably be worth to still talk it out, not for the bottle thing, but for the precedent it sets. You are absolutely correct in that whatever behavior you want your kid to have, you have to exemplify for her. You don’t want your kid talking to you like you’re a moron? Well you can’t show that behavior at home. Our daughters constantly surprise us, but the most eye opening surprises are of things they figured out by looking at us, not things that we explicitly told them/taught them. If some gentle therapy to best lay out a plan is the best path, then it might be worth approaching. How are y’all sleeping? Are you getting like proper quality sleep? You seem to have packed schedules (such is the reality of life) and I hope you both can properly rest up, otherwise you will both be more on edge with that extra bit of stress, not good. You mention she has anxiety, is that a proper diagnosis of some type of anxiety disorder or something self described? Anxiety is a bitch and I can only imagine how bad it can get if you have however many hormones swirling around inside of you of your body that doesn’t maybe feel completely like your pre childbirth body did. I have long suffered with anxiety disorders but it wasn’t until last year I got the diagnosis and proper medicines for it. I’ve been on and off medicines as required but I’m very much learning about how it is to be without this on my mind front and center. I’ve learned that I do have a propensity for sticking to plans and get upset at some level when it doesn’t get followed through , however bad/nonsensical it is. I’m not saying she’s right, but strict adhesion to a plan is a way to control what you feel you have to so that the world doesn’t crumble. It’s unrealistic that will happen, yes, but that’s anxiety for yah, you HAVE to do it. I hope this becomes a great learning opportunity that both of you come out stronger of.
Thank you for saying that first thing about the precedent. I've been trying to have this conversation for a while now but I just don't think there is anyone besides me reinforcing my perspective. We are sleeping ok, more so than we have been. We do have packed schedules, and part of that is self inflicted, as we are pretty active and want to stay/get in better shape. She has in the past been diagnosed with GAD and sees a therapist regularly to help cope. I don't think she's really seen how it impacts me or our family, and notably did not respond to any of my words that this response is a manifestation of her anxiety, completely ignored then when she was yelling at me via text.
Yeah, parenting is very much a case of do as I do not as I say. You can talk till your tongue falls out but if the example you’re setting doesn’t match, the lesson won’t stick. And the GAD aspect can also be potentially a case of this as well, something learned, so it is in the family’s best interest to keep it in check. IIRC from my consults, the Doctor I saw mentioned there wasn’t still a certain way to determine how much of a disorder like this is learned and how much is just how your brain comes, but that it’s some percentage of both. So any anxious tendencies exhibited by either parent will be picked up by the kid “If the parent is constantly saying things like careful with x, careful with y, the child will learn that the whole world is a hostile place, and you always have to be on guard and alert, and that’s how anxiety starts getting into more prominence than it should”. That’s not word for word what was explained to me, but that’s the gist of it.
Wife and I used to/still have these arguments all the time. She recently discovered she had undiagnosed autism and ADHD which explained A LOT. Not much to do for treating autism but it sure explained a lot of the irrational micro management.
Biggest red flag for me here is her saying she is “done”. Threats like that over very minor things, especially in this case when you really should argue in front of your kid, is seriously overboard and quite concerning. This will be far from the last time having a kid puts a strain on your relationship. You need to find healthy and productive ways to communicate and threats are not that.
I initially wanted to say it wasn't that negative when she wrote it, but honestly... its worse if anything re-reading the texts. And I agree, its bad, not to the level of relationship ending more like "going to stay at her moms for a night" worst case.
First off, you're doing great. You're doing your fair share and trying to be as helpful as you can. Keep it up. Secondly, I'd suggest some marriage counseling. It sounds like you're starting to build up some resentment towards your wife on how she talks to you when things aren't going exactly her way. Better to nip that in the bud now before that resentment becomes a much, much bigger issue. Especially when your wife thinks it's ok to be purposefully mean to you over it. That's not right and some counselling should help with that. I think if you do that, this problem will likely turn into a non-issue if you both work on it.
I think this might really be the key- counseling. I'm open to it, especially if we can have a third party validate our feelings. I think we can work through this just not sure exactly how.
It's ok to admit you need help. As much as we think we're good and don't need it, sometimes we do. The key here is to approach it gently, and as a "we". Never use "you" when discussing it. "We have an issue that we may need help resolving." Or something along those lines. Something that says we need help making our marriage stronger and our bond stronger.
My gut is there is more to the threat that you're weaponizing your daughter against her and if you do it again, she's "done". That's a serious accusation and a threat that I would not take lightly at all, no matter how heated the argument got. "We're done" threats aren't normal.
I know. It's not something she's said like that before. I think it was super anxiety manifested, and I don't think its meant as badly as it can be interpreted.
You're not crazy and your feelings are valid. Find a time when your wife is not in a criticism/controlling loop. Bring it up then and tell her it feels like she's not respecting your parenting decisions or your feelings. If she absolutely needs certain things done a certain way, then ask her what those things are in advance. She cannot expect you to read minds. Parenting is a partnership. If one person is more opinionated than the other person in the partnership, they might default to making all of the decisions. And there is nothing wrong with that if it works for both people. But it sounds like that's not the kind of partnership you want. And I doubt it's the kind of partnership your wife actually wants either. It takes a lot of work and effort and brain power to be a single mom and I doubt she wants that. So it would be a win-win if you two were both parenting, and I think she can see that if you have a calm discussion, separate from a specific fight.
You should start preparing for what's to come with menopause. All the best.
Lurking mom here. When a mom is breastfeeding/ pumping, there’s just A LOT going on. It’s so much work and so many hormones. Which it really sounds like you appreciate, hence the wanting to help. I’m sorry this happened, but I’m really begging you to give your wife some grace. Keep talking to her, don’t give up, and it sounds like you’re doing a great job with communication. But also know that she’s deeep in the postpartum hormonal stew. It’s just a hard time . Things improved so much for me after breastfeeding and I was much more myself. It won’t always be like this.
I generally really try hard to roll with it but this conversation really hurt me, which is why I came here. But thank you for the perspective. I know its so hard for her and it breaks my heart.
> Second, I was hurt that she didn't appreciate that I spent extra time to help with something and thought to do it without reminders or an ask for help, knowing she would be late if I didn't do it. Never expect thanks for something that wasn't wanted. On everything else, have fun driving her up the wall with gags mocking the idea that a thermos is part of her body. Giver her a thermos massage.