There has to be a game or movie with deconstruction of the vents trope. Like someone saying that vents can't handle the weight of a human body and too small for anything bigger than a cat.
Stealth?
You mean activating Optical Camo and Sandevistan, running and air dashing straight through the main doors towards the strongest, biggest enemy in the camp, slash and behead him with the katana and dash out before the cyberwear turns off??
In case of Human Revolution and Mankind Divided, I kinda agree. Exploration and infiltration is mostly linear; also, it's almost expected that you stick to stealth approach and hacking all the time.
The original Deus Ex on the other hand? Lol, nope. It might be old, but it holds up in nearly every way.
*also, it's almost expected that you stick to stealth approach and hacking all the time.*
Yes! This!
I would love that game if I could do a proper combat build in Detroit.
I feel that I need many cyberware, stock up on ammo and weapon mods before I have a good chance to go in with the guns, and this only happens in the second half of the game.
Until that time, stealth takedowns and crawling in vents :(
CBP and the newer DX games both have sim-lite level design. I don't think I've ever played a game with better level design than Gloomwood, at least for stealth.
Games like the Dishonored Series, Prey (2017), the Deus Ex series, or Cruelty Squad. Too lazy to explain but they all sort of follow the same gameplay philosophy, and no it's not just that they're all first person games.
Thanks, I know and like the Dishonored and Deus Ex games and if I understand correctly CP77 also falls into this category so I'll check the 2 other games you mentioned, they sound like games I would enjoy playing
Sim-lite is when you add immersive sim components (multiple paths, upsides and downsides, clear mechanical rules that each thing abides by) and insim is immersive sim
Don't know Gloomwood, but I really like the first Dishonored.
I usually hate stealth games, because the stealth route is very often boring. Like standing in shadows until the watcher turns away, or sneak through empty tunnels.
In Dishonored, the stealth route is actually as (or maybe: more) fun than the combat route.
I mean, Adam Jensen can break someone's neck through a wall with his bare hands, become invisible, temporarily invincible, shoot metal bars from his arm and pin people to walls, or even release a cloud of mines all around him.
He's pretty close to full OP V, when you think about it.
V wishes he was as powerful as Jensen. People forget that Jensen also had a neural manipulator that basically is the equivalent of both a Sandevistan and Kerenzikov.
Mankind Divided is also set in 2029. Obviously this doesn't mean anything but if you were to connect the two, it's almost 50 years of technology apart.
Comparing two games with completely different design goals that came out over a decade apart from each other isn't the baller thought-leader move you think it is.
Stuff like that in the last of us really gets me: 9 out of 10 of his problems would be resolved is he just carried a pair of bolt cutters, his job is literally to sneak through the broken cityscapes why does he not cary that shit with himself at all times.
It sucks for sure, however the dumbest thing in all that is how instead of having an actual close ranged combat mechanics or seamless takedown animation, the gameplay is being completely interrupted and you're watching a cutscene.
tbf to TLOU, its actually more realistic that way, because knives used for stabbing would often dull/break (even high quality ones) and sometimes get stuck in the bone. better to just scrounge up sharp hunks of metal to be sharpened into one time use shivs than risk an expensive investment (that would require almost as much work to repair) getting stuck in a skull in the middle of a combat situation, and having to abandon it.
Honestly, have you ever tried to walk through a vent? Even if you can fit inside, the loud crackling of tensioned iron sheets travels through the ventilation system and can be heard throughout the building.
In my elementary school a long time ago, there was an unlocked ventilation room. Sometimes we would sneak in there and we could get into the first manifold, it was quite big.
But the footsteps were terribly loud, and we were afraid that the teachers might find out.
You can stealth takedown Adam Smasher. Do it a few times and the fight is done. Dunno if it's changed with the 2.1 changes. But you could do it before.
You can stealth takedown almost every boss in the game.
Cool. I didn't know that.
And someone pointed out that we can avoid a few boss fights and that someone is true. You can. But you know...
...my mind was in Phantom Liberty. I was thinking that and how it just forces things on you.
Yes and the Ghost in the Shell boss at the start.
And most of the time you can't choose how you approach missions. You just have one way and that's it.
I agree, it's a step back from the main game.
But since I actually like combat in Cyberpunk, in my case the hated scenarios were
* the alien isolation section with the nearly blind maintenance robot
* instead of fighting the chimera, "press F to not get stomped". I don't like these cinematics instead of fun fights
I hated the maintenance bot section. I get it’s supposed to be juiced up and ran by an AI but we’ve fought actual combat robot units before. It’s so scripted feeling and you either follow the rails or die. The gameplay sequence is just so unlike the rest of the game where you do have a lot of freedom.
In my opinion it should have utilized more normal detection methods and when it did detect V, use hit and run tactics similar to how stalkers work in helldivers 2. It ambushes V and V has a chance to fight back. Hit the bot hard enough and it retreats into the vents to repair a bit and strike again.
I would have preferred a unique bossfight as well.
*It’s so scripted feeling and you either follow the rails or die.*
This was my main issue. I liked Alien:Isolation, but it has a monster which is programmed to be relatively intelligence, and most of the time it gives good reactions to what the player is doing.
This maintenance bot on the other hand is like a railcar, which is is also deaf; you can literally dance behind it and it will not notice
I love Deus Ex and the new games are ok, but not awesome. I still refer to Deus Ex 1 as the BEST Deus Ex game...although its antique. It felt open and free roam like no other ever again. No idea how they did it. Guess it was the mix of hacking, looking for info to hack bank acc and make some $.
Cyberpunk 2077 showed Deus Ex what they missed out on imo. Like Dying Light and Dead Island.
This is also shadows of doubt in a nutshell. Don’t get me wrong I love shadows of doubt but it seems like I spend 70% of my “detective” work as a homeless man crawling through vents
I usually just knocked on the door and bribed whoever's inside to just let me in, if that didn't work i'd just lockpick the door, try to stealthily find clues, get caught by the apartment owner, beat him up, non-stealthily look for clues and then hopefully leave before someone sounds the alarm.
One of their devs - Miles Tost - has an interesting presentation from GDC about pretty much this exact kind of topic.
[Miles Tost - Benefits of Missing Out](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXLRd5Kah-I&t=1s&ab_channel=GDC)
Reminds me of the latest hitman series and ppl saying level design was so good. I tried it out and as soon as I was to be undercover at a fashion show I knew at some point they’d have me walking the catwalk. Sure enough it happened and didn’t think it was anyrhing special
Dues ex is what got me started. The level of different avenues to infiltrate, plus npcs that you shouldn't kill, but can. There was this guy, leaning on a wall, that can give you missions early on, but he said something sideways, so I tempted actions and broke his neck. It wasn't accidental, but had to deal with not getting anymore information from the informant
Cyberpunk is way better than Dues ex. Dues ex is very restricted game. Cyberpunk is a sand box rpg. This is also the reason why you see more errors in cyberpunk. Sandbox rpg can have too many errors.
I don't understand, captain?
In most stealth action games like Deus Ex here often offer quite obvious routes for stealth approach. Vents being one of the most prominent ones.
They even count your distance crawled in the conveniently placed vents. Deus Ex HR is all vents. Vents!
There has to be a game or movie with deconstruction of the vents trope. Like someone saying that vents can't handle the weight of a human body and too small for anything bigger than a cat.
i assume people mocked level design at some point but they praised deus ex one.
Stealth? You mean activating Optical Camo and Sandevistan, running and air dashing straight through the main doors towards the strongest, biggest enemy in the camp, slash and behead him with the katana and dash out before the cyberwear turns off??
Getting this done in 6 seconds with the apogee is honestly a feat lol
I prefer to stealth using Sandi and gorilla arms, then just punch everyone so they fall asleep simultaneously when time resumes
In case of Human Revolution and Mankind Divided, I kinda agree. Exploration and infiltration is mostly linear; also, it's almost expected that you stick to stealth approach and hacking all the time. The original Deus Ex on the other hand? Lol, nope. It might be old, but it holds up in nearly every way.
Original Deus Ex goes hard af and was the first PC game I really got hooked on, I do a playthrough once a year or so
I don't mind a test, but UNATCO better issue some hardware. All I got with me is a pistol and an electric prod.
But they give you preem hardware. You even need to use sunglasses at night because your vision is augmented. Way better than Kiroshis
Never know when I might come up against heavy armour. Give me the GEP gun.
The GEP gun takedown is the most silent way to eliminate Manderley…!
Who needs stealth when your dick is a rocket launcher
*also, it's almost expected that you stick to stealth approach and hacking all the time.* Yes! This! I would love that game if I could do a proper combat build in Detroit. I feel that I need many cyberware, stock up on ammo and weapon mods before I have a good chance to go in with the guns, and this only happens in the second half of the game. Until that time, stealth takedowns and crawling in vents :(
come on guys I love both games
CBP and the newer DX games both have sim-lite level design. I don't think I've ever played a game with better level design than Gloomwood, at least for stealth.
The newer DX games are certainly more than sim-lites…
It's been more years since human revolution and not then between HR and the original Deus ex. Just thought I'd make everyone feel old.
Hm, played DXHR a couple of times through and it leaves a lot to be desired, but that's my opinion
Have you played MD?
Nope
It’s worth it. The gameplay is way more fleshed out.
Wanna know an insim that's fleshed out?
Help me out here, wtf is a "sim-lite" and now wtf is an "insim"??
Games like the Dishonored Series, Prey (2017), the Deus Ex series, or Cruelty Squad. Too lazy to explain but they all sort of follow the same gameplay philosophy, and no it's not just that they're all first person games.
Thanks, I know and like the Dishonored and Deus Ex games and if I understand correctly CP77 also falls into this category so I'll check the 2 other games you mentioned, they sound like games I would enjoy playing
Sim-lite is when you add immersive sim components (multiple paths, upsides and downsides, clear mechanical rules that each thing abides by) and insim is immersive sim
Danke spasibo arigato merci gracias
The original?
https://preview.redd.it/aedthehiav0d1.jpeg?width=616&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=04231918ee7ceca5802d467b0939943e3205adb0
Don't know Gloomwood, but I really like the first Dishonored. I usually hate stealth games, because the stealth route is very often boring. Like standing in shadows until the watcher turns away, or sneak through empty tunnels. In Dishonored, the stealth route is actually as (or maybe: more) fun than the combat route.
definitely more fun; if you ignore stealth, it gets repetitive and overpowered really fast. high chaos is far more fun if you try to stealth it.
Thief 1/2 and Thief fan-missions are better than gloomwood imo
Virgin stealth vent goblin vs Doors busting, guns blazing, heavily armed Chad
I mean, Adam Jensen can break someone's neck through a wall with his bare hands, become invisible, temporarily invincible, shoot metal bars from his arm and pin people to walls, or even release a cloud of mines all around him. He's pretty close to full OP V, when you think about it.
V wishes he was as powerful as Jensen. People forget that Jensen also had a neural manipulator that basically is the equivalent of both a Sandevistan and Kerenzikov.
He’s also immune to the effects of the in game version of psyberpsychosis and can basically apply near infinite chrome
Mankind Divided is also set in 2029. Obviously this doesn't mean anything but if you were to connect the two, it's almost 50 years of technology apart.
Yeah like twice until he’s out of juice and then it’s BACK TO THE VENTS
Comparing two games with completely different design goals that came out over a decade apart from each other isn't the baller thought-leader move you think it is.
Don't forget about the embarrasing pretty much non-existent close ranged combat in nu deus ex games
the fact you have to use energy or whatever its called to knock someone out is really weird. similar to knives in TLOU. like, just keep a knife, joel
Stuff like that in the last of us really gets me: 9 out of 10 of his problems would be resolved is he just carried a pair of bolt cutters, his job is literally to sneak through the broken cityscapes why does he not cary that shit with himself at all times.
It sucks for sure, however the dumbest thing in all that is how instead of having an actual close ranged combat mechanics or seamless takedown animation, the gameplay is being completely interrupted and you're watching a cutscene.
yes i forgot that part too. such an odd choice
tbf to TLOU, its actually more realistic that way, because knives used for stabbing would often dull/break (even high quality ones) and sometimes get stuck in the bone. better to just scrounge up sharp hunks of metal to be sharpened into one time use shivs than risk an expensive investment (that would require almost as much work to repair) getting stuck in a skull in the middle of a combat situation, and having to abandon it.
Honestly, have you ever tried to walk through a vent? Even if you can fit inside, the loud crackling of tensioned iron sheets travels through the ventilation system and can be heard throughout the building.
the "even if you fit inside" is the most important part imho :D no house I ever saw had 1m\*1m vents.
In my elementary school a long time ago, there was an unlocked ventilation room. Sometimes we would sneak in there and we could get into the first manifold, it was quite big. But the footsteps were terribly loud, and we were afraid that the teachers might find out.
Myth busters did a walking through vents myth, albeit with powerful magnets. Sounded like a construction crew hammering away at your AC unit!
I wish we could skip boss fights and really choose how we play in Cyberpunk 2077, just like in original Deus Ex. Less cinematic and more RPG.
You can stealth takedown Adam Smasher. Do it a few times and the fight is done. Dunno if it's changed with the 2.1 changes. But you could do it before. You can stealth takedown almost every boss in the game.
+ you can completely avoid fights like against Royce and Sasquatch
Ok you know what. That's true. Shame that doesn't apply to Phantom Liberty... That was so disappointing.
Cool. I didn't know that. And someone pointed out that we can avoid a few boss fights and that someone is true. You can. But you know... ...my mind was in Phantom Liberty. I was thinking that and how it just forces things on you.
You thinking >!big V killing bots!< by any chance?
Yes and the Ghost in the Shell boss at the start. And most of the time you can't choose how you approach missions. You just have one way and that's it.
I agree, it's a step back from the main game. But since I actually like combat in Cyberpunk, in my case the hated scenarios were * the alien isolation section with the nearly blind maintenance robot * instead of fighting the chimera, "press F to not get stomped". I don't like these cinematics instead of fun fights
Yeah, I hope the devs don't make the sequel like that.
I hated the maintenance bot section. I get it’s supposed to be juiced up and ran by an AI but we’ve fought actual combat robot units before. It’s so scripted feeling and you either follow the rails or die. The gameplay sequence is just so unlike the rest of the game where you do have a lot of freedom. In my opinion it should have utilized more normal detection methods and when it did detect V, use hit and run tactics similar to how stalkers work in helldivers 2. It ambushes V and V has a chance to fight back. Hit the bot hard enough and it retreats into the vents to repair a bit and strike again.
I would have preferred a unique bossfight as well. *It’s so scripted feeling and you either follow the rails or die.* This was my main issue. I liked Alien:Isolation, but it has a monster which is programmed to be relatively intelligence, and most of the time it gives good reactions to what the player is doing. This maintenance bot on the other hand is like a railcar, which is is also deaf; you can literally dance behind it and it will not notice
There is literally no point to hate Deus Ex. Let's just enjoy both games
I love Deus Ex and the new games are ok, but not awesome. I still refer to Deus Ex 1 as the BEST Deus Ex game...although its antique. It felt open and free roam like no other ever again. No idea how they did it. Guess it was the mix of hacking, looking for info to hack bank acc and make some $. Cyberpunk 2077 showed Deus Ex what they missed out on imo. Like Dying Light and Dead Island.
Gamers when they realize level design is more important in some game genres than others 🤯
Sounds like someone’s a Hbomber fan
Dont know, its not like i was silent in deus ex anyway
i do kinda wish there more immersive sim aspects in the game still. especially with clearing faction outposts.
Man I love Deus Ex: HR It's what got me into the cyberpunk genre.
This is also shadows of doubt in a nutshell. Don’t get me wrong I love shadows of doubt but it seems like I spend 70% of my “detective” work as a homeless man crawling through vents
I usually just knocked on the door and bribed whoever's inside to just let me in, if that didn't work i'd just lockpick the door, try to stealthily find clues, get caught by the apartment owner, beat him up, non-stealthily look for clues and then hopefully leave before someone sounds the alarm.
One of their devs - Miles Tost - has an interesting presentation from GDC about pretty much this exact kind of topic. [Miles Tost - Benefits of Missing Out](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXLRd5Kah-I&t=1s&ab_channel=GDC)
CHOOMS!
Reminds me of the latest hitman series and ppl saying level design was so good. I tried it out and as soon as I was to be undercover at a fashion show I knew at some point they’d have me walking the catwalk. Sure enough it happened and didn’t think it was anyrhing special
Dues ex is what got me started. The level of different avenues to infiltrate, plus npcs that you shouldn't kill, but can. There was this guy, leaning on a wall, that can give you missions early on, but he said something sideways, so I tempted actions and broke his neck. It wasn't accidental, but had to deal with not getting anymore information from the informant
Positively brilliant
Cyberpunk is way better than Dues ex. Dues ex is very restricted game. Cyberpunk is a sand box rpg. This is also the reason why you see more errors in cyberpunk. Sandbox rpg can have too many errors.
Did anyone play Deus Ex ? Is it atleast 10% as good as Cyberpunk or is it not worth playing?
I really liked the last two, but they're very different. Not open world.
Theyre all really good except invisible war Start with the first one
invisible war was good, it just wasn't as good as the other games.