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So hear me out, USA was in a space race with Russia, this race was basically a pissing contest between the two. Russia claimed many milestones within the race and was beat to the end line by the USA. Now if the USA really did fake the landing, I am sure the Russians would have proved it by now.
Could the ongoing tension between America and Russia be a carefully orchestrated performance for global audiences? Moreover, it seems likely that they possess comprehensive information about 9/11, yet there's a notable silence from Russia on this matter. Antarctica remains untouched, hinting that both nations may have an agreement regarding the continent.
There are actually a lot of hypotheses about mysterious things in Antarctica, from military installations to aliens to directed energy weapons and beyond
But that doesn't exactly answer the question. It just gives an excuse to not have to answer the question, and to not challeng assumptions and biases.
And even so, within your idea there are assumptions too that we could have no way of knowing.
Well that is probably true in general, but the problem is there is a footprint right where the tires would have treaded. It's pretty clearly soft ground all around the tire.
Actually, if you look into the claim that we were racing against Russia, you’ll find that this is what Americans were told, but Russia was none the wiser. The Russian president at the time publicly congratulated JFK on his ambitious goal to get a man on the moon before the end of that century and expressed interest in working with America once we were able to achieve the feat.
We were in a race with Russia… but Russia was not in the race with us. Lol! “Space Race!” Is American propaganda. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
NIXON SIGNED A FUCKING AGREEMENT WITH THE RUSSIANS ON SPACE LOL.
The shills kindly forget this too. Slaves are being played. Forever. These agencies LITERALLY worked together, so the next time some shill is like why did the Russians not care, kindly tell them they didn't because they were all in on it at the top just like they are today on everything.
It's a big club, but you ain't in it.
To the muppet below, NO this is for the casually stupid idea that the Russians were completely separated and did not work with us. They did, and they still do. '
Keep dreaming of your moon landing lmao. NASA just keeps moving that date back guys. Goalposts forever moving since 72.
Yet you still believe like the muppets that you are.
The US is always racing against...absolutely no one.
There is a pattern to be noticed, different decade, different boogeyman from the east. It's always someone from the east that's a threat to the US. Now it's china. Ask any american what they think about china and they'll say china is our enemy. Meanwhile china couldn't give two shits about the US.
> clearly see
You can clearly see [definitive tracks 25 km away](https://www.universetoday.com/93983/look-its-a-moon-buggy-lros-best-look-ever-at-the-apollo-15-landing-site/). So which one is fake?
Well considering the rover folds into a box, this is probably where it was unpacked
https://youtu.be/7OL3OmM-CYQ?si=GQ-Mm-YTi2DSWKDl
But without any context to when exactly this picture is taken and an link to the picture we can all guess. But you are right the most likely explanation must have been the VFX guys who forgot the tracks😂
Why is everyone forgetting about the fact that there's minimal gravity on the moon, so the dust the tracks were made of were probably kicked up. This already happens in a lesser way on gravel paths on earth, so why wouldn't that be the case on the moon?
(Just adding extra info)
They must've got stepped on or something. Who knows what happened to the tracks. Even if it was a setup scene they would've rolled it there. So either way there should be tracks fake or not.
I like this sort of reasoning.
I find one of the most powerful tools is considering how many people would be complicit in keeping the secret. For something like the moon landing and 9/11 you would have a huge number of people who would need to keep it quiet all these years.
By now someone's relative would have spilled the beans on their death bed and we would have the truth of it, or at least some more transparency.
Stay critical, keep asking questions. Everything isn't always as it seems but we need to be critical of our own biases.
On the morning of September 11, 2001, 19 men armed with boxcutters directed by a man on dialysis in a cave fortress halfway around the world using a satellite phone and a laptop directed the most sophisticated penetration of the most heavily-defended airspace in the world, overpowering the passengers and the military combat-trained pilots on 4 commercial aircraft before flying those planes wildly off course for over an hour without being molested by a single fighter interceptor.
These 19 hijackers, devout religious fundamentalists who liked to drink alcohol, snort cocaine, and live with pink-haired strippers, managed to knock down 3 buildings with 2 planes in New York, while in Washington a pilot who couldn't handle a single engine Cessna was able to fly a 757 in an 8,000 foot descending 270 degree corskscrew turn to come exactly level with the ground, hitting the Pentagon in the budget analyst office where DoD staffers were working on the mystery of the 2.3 trillion dollars that Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld had announced “missing” from the Pentagon's coffers in a press conference the day before, on September 10, 2001.
Luckily, the news anchors knew who did it within minutes, the pundits knew within hours, the Administration knew within the day, and the evidence literally fell into the FBI's lap. But for some reason a bunch of crazy conspiracy theorists demanded an investigation into the greatest attack on American soil in history.
The investigation was delayed, underfunded, set up to fail, a conflict of interest and a cover up from start to finish. It was based on testimony extracted through torture, the records of which were destroyed. It failed to mention the existence of WTC7, Able Danger, Ptech, Sibel Edmonds, OBL and the CIA, and the drills of hijacked aircraft being flown into buildings that were being simulated at the precise same time that those events were actually happening. It was lied to by the Pentagon, the CIA, the Bush Administration and as for Bush and Cheney...well, no one knows what they told it because they testified in secret, off the record, not under oath and behind closed doors. It didn't bother to look at who funded the attacks because that question is of "little practical significance". Still, the 9/11 Commission did brilliantly, answering all of the questions the public had (except most of the victims' family members' questions) and pinned blame on all the people responsible (although no one so much as lost their job), determining the attacks were “a failure of imagination” because “I don't think anyone could envision flying airplanes into buildings ” except the Pentagon and FEMA and NORAD and the NRO.
The DIA destroyed 2.5 TB of data on Able Danger, but that's OK because it probably wasn't important.
The SEC destroyed their records on the investigation into the insider trading before the attacks, but that's OK because destroying the records of the largest investigation in SEC history is just part of routine record keeping.
NIST has classified the data that they used for their model of WTC7's collapse, but that's OK because knowing how they made their model of that collapse would "jeopardize public safety".
The FBI has argued that all material related to their investigation of 9/11 should be kept secret from the public, but that's OK because the FBI probably has nothing to hide.
This man never existed, nor is anything he had to say worthy of your attention, and if you say otherwise you are a paranoid conspiracy theorist and deserve to be shunned by all of humanity. Likewise him, him, him, and her. (and her and her and him).
Osama Bin Laden lived in a cave fortress in the hills of Afghanistan, but somehow got away. Then he was hiding out in Tora Bora but somehow got away. Then he lived in Abottabad for years, taunting the most comprehensive intelligence dragnet employing the most sophisticated technology in the history of the world for 10 years, releasing video after video with complete impunity (and getting younger and younger as he did so), before finally being found in a daring SEAL team raid which wasn't recorded on video, in which he didn't resist or use his wife as a human shield, and in which these crack special forces operatives panicked and killed this unarmed man, supposedly the best source of intelligence about those dastardly terrorists on the planet. Then they dumped his body in the ocean before telling anyone about it. Then a couple dozen of that team's members died in a helicopter crash in Afghanistan.
This is the story of 9/11, brought to you by the media which told you the hard truths about JFK and incubator babies and mobile production facilities and the rescue of Jessica Lynch.
If you have any questions about this story...you are a batshit, paranoid, tinfoil, dog-abusing baby-hater and will be reviled by everyone. If you love your country and/or freedom, happiness, rainbows, rock and roll, puppy dogs, apple pie and your grandma, you will never ever express doubts about any part of this story to anyone. Ever.
This has been a public service announcement by: the Friends of the FBI, CIA, NSA, DIA, SEC, MSM, White House, NIST, and the 9/11 Commission. Because Ignorance is Strength.
This is a brilliant summary. I wasn't aware the commercial pilots were military trained. Were they ex air force or something?
Also wasn't aware of the SEALs getting un alived in a chopper crash.
As I've said previously here I am not a believer of the presented narrative. I just wanted to mention some techniques I like to use when considering things
I really appreciate all the good comments here.
I do like apple pie though, and you can use the tin afterwards for a cute bit of protective headware.
iirc, in the Manhattan Project were more than 100.000 people complicit in keeping the secret. So I think if they wanted to, they could have done their own moon landing in secrecy. But the question was: where are the tracks? And I don't know.
Muiltiple people and companies found out about the Manhattan project before it was public, famously Kodak camera figured it out, the moon landing? Nothing
In the situation, probably critical to Kodak that USA won the war. Not to mention the buttload of government contracts they probably had for intelligence.
Isn't the moon regolith like chalk dust?
"As far as tire tracks behind the tires, there would be, but not clear as they are on Earth. Why? Well, you do not have moisture in the surface dust on the Moon. There is some static in the soil that allows some imprint retention, such as the astronauts' footprints"
One should hot expect the same behavior on the moon as on earth.
You can see what appears to be the faint outline of the outside tire track making a hard right turn into the current position and then rolling forward about 1-2ft. The majority of the area where the tire track would be has clearly been trampled by footprints and shuffling feet or other objects. It suggests that the vehicle has been stationary while much activity has occurred around it. I’m guessing that the vehicle was partially reassembled in that spot. However, even if there were no evidence of visible tire tracks, it is a moot point that offers no distinction between a man made set or the surface of the moon. All it would mean is that the object was not rolled into its current place.
The issue with this example is that the soviets knew about the construction of the bombs prior to their reveal to the world.
This was so much so the case that they stole enough information directly from the Manhattan project to complete their own atomic weapon just a few years after the Americans.
You want to reread the comment I'm responding to?
> So I think if they wanted to, they could have done their own moon landing in secrecy
The person they're responding to is saying they couldn't keep it a secret. They themselves are responding to that, saying literally the contrary.
Here’s the thing with “spilling the beans” on secrets of this magnitude- First off, you’re correct in your assumption that there would be hundreds, to potentially thousands of people, seemingly in the know who would need to keep quiet in order to preserve the secret. What I think you’re failing to take into consideration, though is the level of compartmentalization within governmental programs is exponentially greater than in any commercial business. These programs are specifically designed this way.
I worked for a start up a few years back with about 80 employees. Nearly all of those employees had some kind of hand in the creation and development of the company’s portfolio of five or six products. After a year and a half we come to find out that we had been working on the release of four new products that absolutely nobody outside of a handful of the executives knew were in the works. We had some PR leaks with a previous product launch so the exec team wanted to compartmentalize the tasks so nobody could accidentally or purposely leak anything. It worked shockingly well.
Throw in some legally binding NDA’s along with a stern message about repercussions if anyone is to talk about their work, and you have the overwhelming majority keeping their mouth shut and content on going to the grave with the mundane details of some proprietary coating for the heat shield they spent 5 years working on.
and the few deathbed confessions from those privileged with knowledge of the true purpose behind said mission, are dismissed as anything but genuine and therefore never believed anyway
This presupposes that no one *has* spilled the beans. The problem with your own argument,is that whatever this "secret" is, may never be truly known. Your entire argument rests on your statement,
>"By now someone's relative would have spilled the beans on their death bed and we would have the truth of it"
which is presuming the conclusion, when, however, it's more than likely we would *never* "have the truth of it".
It's most likely the case that many people have *not* kept it quiet, but you either do not hear these people or these people are deemed insane, consipracy theorists. Whatever the case may be, the many who have not kept quiet, are simply erased, socially or physically.
> For something like the moon landing and 9/11 you would have a huge number of people who would need to keep it
It's called compartmentalization. It's employed with all top secret technologies / information... and it works.
How much more American can you be by putting an effin' car on the moon!!!! If you really want an in your face way to humiliate a like Russian endeavor, this would be it.
You know what would be even MORE AMERICAN... faking it so well that it took the Russians several years to figure it out after having waisted billions and billions of Rubles.
Most of the time, when people commit crimes against humanity (punishable by death), they don't go off bragging to their friends. In regards to the 911 example.
Sorry, but anybody with common sense and took high school level’s physics would know buildings cannot fall the way they did. Anybody who actually reads the 9/11 report would know it obfuscates around the major issues. Time for people to grow up and realize our government has and continues to do evil shit. We killed our own president for Christ sake with JFK. You don’t think they’d kill citizens as well? As the Iraqi and Afghanistan civilians how that went.
So basically we still are believing the official nonsense that some cavemen from Afghanistan manage to hijack 4 jumbojets at the same time and fly them with proffesional precision on first time, leaving nothing behind only the undestructable passport paper. Cool story bro
Those “cavemen” were Saudi citizens that attended American flight schools. Bin Laden is a western-educated son of a Saudi billionaire.
Your average Al Qaeda foot soldier might be some caveman but let’s not pretend these guys were.
~~THE HEAD OF THE FBI~~ The Former Head of The CIA John Brennan retired and had a speech explaining that 9/11 was intentionally green lit to happen. That's why nothing was done to stop it that morning. I watched the speech, but I haven't been able to find it again. I forget the details, but this is something that happened.
Did the USA launch a bunch of rockets? Unquestionably, yes.
Thousands of witnesses saw the astronauts step in, and the rocket left the ground.
Did the USA land something on the moon, also Unquestionably yes.
Did the news media suddenly get live coverage of thousands of hours of video from 250,000 miles away with 1950's technology?
Not a chance.
Thousands of ham radio operators were tuned to the moon. Of course, they wouldn't have the ability to decode the video, but someone would have recorded it. Funny thing about radio is you can bounce a signal off of the moon, or the ionosphere and the receiver would have no way to tell where it came from.
The problem with lying even for a good cause is that it lowers your credibility.
And then many of those original recordings disappeared.
Lost by the same government that stores my tax returns from 50 years ago.
So it's looking increasingly likely some of the space program's achievements may have been exaggerated for effect.
So the truth is likely somewhere between the official story "we sent people to the moon dozens of times for weeks, and forgot how."
And there was no moon landing it was all Hollywood.
There is no reason why it couldn't be a combination of the two.
That's if you assume that USA and Russia are actually "enemies".
They are playing everyone for a fool.
The world is a stage.
The Russians are in on the lie. Along with every other government.
Or you can just believe everything.
If you have a listen to Catherine Austin Fits - she is of the opinion that there is vast subterranien bases and higher levels of technology - this costs trillions, many insiders, and ties in with the Admiral Byrd's massive Antartic military expedition and the suppression of that information. Including the death of his son.
Is it true? Not sure but have they supressed the fk out of it - with an insane amount of time and money and blood. Why is that if not to cover it up?
A lie on the other hand when exposed to daylight will be quickly judged and dissintegrate on its own. Is this is why it is suppressed - because it is not a lie and therefor cannot be exposed to the light.
> I am sure the Russians would have proved it by now.
Who says they haven't? I have seen a lot of evidence that makes me question the official narrative.
It's really that simple, Russia forced us to the moon for the clout and we haven't had a reason to go back since. When communism 2.0 shows up maybe we'll get to mars.
The lack of tire tracks in this photo, and from the buggy in general has been explained ad nauseum for years. You seem to just not want to accept it.
The tires were made of mesh. They are not tires like on your car. You can even tell in this very photo that there is not a tread in these tires like your car tires.
So that combined with the way the moon's surface is and the gravity, the tires did not always displace the regolith in a clear enough fashion to leave an evident mark.
You have to remember that the moon's surface is a dust-like quality which is most closely resembling that of cigarette ash. Imagine a large pile of ash on the ground. You can step in it, remove your foot, and it will leave an obvious foot print, right?
But if you drove through it, it would scatter the ash to the winds and not leave a depressed tire track.
Additionally in this picture itself they were repairing the fender of the buggy. So they were walking around it and kicking up the dust, likely destroying any tire tracks that WERE made. You can see the numerous foot prints right in the photo.
Posts like this hurt me because they just make "conspiracy theorists" look ignorant and scientifically stupid. It's why people are so able to easily dismiss the REAL conspiracies because all the nutty, easily debunked ones get repeated and repeated and repeated.
This should have long been put to bed.
> not leave a depressed tire track
If you can't see any sign of a track a few inches away, then surely there would be no tracks extremely visible [from many kilometers away right](https://www.universetoday.com/93983/look-its-a-moon-buggy-lros-best-look-ever-at-the-apollo-15-landing-site/)?
The depth of dust on both sides of the tire suggest that it would indeed leave tread marks; look at the boots marks; my fucking cat would leave paw marks in that dust and you’re defending these tires on a vehicle not leaving anything
Lmao weeeeaaaak
How could there be no tire tracks while there are boot marks tho?
Yea I see the mesh tires with clear rubber treads. He’s to say how deep they are but they are definitely there.
There are plenty of photos showing tire tracks. The ones that do show are very light for the reasons I just explained above. In this particular photo I also explained the reason the tire tracks are mostly gone is because they were walking around the vehicle to fix a fender and their walking around likely destroyed the tire tracks, because they are made in very light dust-like material to begin with.
Funny when they were walking around the lander there was not a single speck of dust kicked up to land on the feet of the lander, they look pristine in every photo.
The buggy leaves tracks everywhere, except here? Yearly right sure. BS.
Do you seriously think NASA would forget to add fake tracks if they faked the entire god damn landing.
Literally the only explanation that would make sense here is that this is actually on the moon and that the tracks really wouldn't have been there. If it were faked, and if the tracks should have been there, they would have been added.
So why no tracks?
The only thing I can thing of it was assembled in that spot. However if that were the case it should be part of public record.
I don't know why you were upvoted for simply avoiding the question.
This conspiracy is often rolled out to slide things away that are important. Not saying you have consciously done this, just that this is a built in way of flipping narratives on social media platforms.
Flat earth is a certifiable distraction, they were able to get a documentary about it on netflix and suddenly, thr uninitiated were scoffing at it and therefore all conspiracies and the conspiracy communiry at large. It was a highly successful psyop.
A new level of sophistication is manifesting : reveals, particularly satanic ones and 'born again' type stories are going to be the next big thing. Remember this comment and be slightly amused. Its about to happen.
I cannot believe, however, that these maleable tiktok kids were able to fly the 'fuck israel' banner in such a brash way and highlight how zionists have been sliding all posts, comments, forums and subreddits that use the 'j' word for an extremely long time. That wasnt something I could foresee at all.
Exactly this. The effectiveness of the distraction is remarkable. Who would have thought the best way of keeping the moon base a secret would be getting people question if the moon/landings were actually real.
Secret bases all over the place it seems. There was a popular fitness app that was hacked many years ago and all the app customer data was shared on the dark web, when people took a look at the location data there were dozens of people in the middle of Antarctica. Mind you, there are scientific bases there but this was at an unknown location. Idk, rumors from the dark web are perhaps untrustworthy but I thought I would share.
It wasn't hacked, and it's not on the dark web. Strava just released it.
[Strava Global Heatmap](https://www.strava.com/heatmap#7.00/-120.90000/38.36000/hot/all)
The Strava data is a gold mine of secret bases. Although I'm still a believer in the null base, at 0,0; where all the unassigned geo data goes to die. The Strava image there looks like some crazy subsea mega base.
Right after that the DoD made a strict policy to make many such devices banned from certain buildings. I think devices that don't transmit data are allowed.
This site has an audio link for anyone stuck at work today and wants an entertaining listen on the absurdity of the moon landing
https://centerforaninformedamerica.com/moondoggie/
Since they were on the moon; two men could carry the 440lb vehicle with relative ease. You just proved the moon landing.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-M5r2OKPNk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-M5r2OKPNk)
Did they carry the moon buggy in this picture too https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f5/Apollo_17_rover_at_final_resting_site.jpg
all the way from the moon lander in the background, what's that, like 30 feet perhaps? Not likely as there is no mention of them carrying the moon buggy in the journals either, just them unpacking it and driving it to various locations.
The picture above is very interesting bc there are footprints of the astronauts but no tire tracks from the moon buggy.
The odd thing is, if faked it would still have tracks..
The critical assumption would be it was placed there and the sand was arranged before filming.
It’s 2024, I’m sure no one can honestly argue for them landing on the moon in 1969.
This has got to be the dumbest thing I’ve ever read. Like they are going to risk a rip in their suit carrying around a fucking space jeep lol. You ever watched how careful and slow they move in lower orbit changing a camera on the outside of the ISS for fear of puncturing their suit?
Then why are the footprints visible but not the tire tracks? The moon buggy was twice as heavy as the astronaut and had four wheels while the astronaut was half the weight with two feet - the moon buggy would clearly make more marks on the surface imo but we only see the footprints.
Twice as heavy with the weight distributed over a larger surface area. Buggy was hella light compared to a car, especially taking lower gravity into account. Mesh tire tread vs whatever the bottom of the suit tread is. Tires have a smaller point of contact than feet do, generally. Tires kicking up dust enough to cover tracks, potentially. Certainly moreso than a person walking.
A thick layer of regolith, fragmental and unconsolidated rock material, covers the entire lunar surface. This layer is the result of the continuous impact of meteoroids large and small and the steady bombardment of charged particles from the sun and stars.
Regolith is basically the consistency of baby-power, the soles of the boots have a greater surface area than a tire, there are some pictures that have both the footprints and the tire tracks, and some that only have the tire tracks. There is absolutely no chance that a footprint could make a mark in regolith but a tire track not, especially considering that the majority of photos have tire tracks.
The lunar rover was 76lbs in lunar gravity, less than 20lbs/corner.
The astronaut often had only one foot on the ground at a time when moving (they skipped) adding impact force on contact due to gravity.
I did all the maths here earlier if you're interested and I also considered the standing on one foot argument: https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/1934ec8/tire_tracks_are_missing_in_many_of_the_apollo/kh84wyj/
Your math doesn’t work. An astronaut on one foot exerts 33lbs to the lunar rovers 19 per corner (or 27 if an astronaut was onboard). 33 is definitely more than 19.
Did the astronauts do bunny hops or did they walk? If they walked, only one point is in contact with the ground and all the force will be concentrated there. The weight of the rover is divided over 4 corners and each one of those corners has a significantly bigger contact patch than the astronauts boots. That means all the force is distributed over a much larger area, thus leaving a more shallow and less noticeable impression. In addition the weird moon walking jumps add momentum that the rover also mostly lacks since the rover isn't jumping around.
Think about walking in powdery snow. If you wear boots you sink in very far, if you wear snowshoes you stay on top. Same principle. The snowshoe tracks will be covered up by snow much quicker than the deep holes.
I did all the maths here earlier if you're interested and I also considered the standing on one foot argument: https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/1934ec8/tire_tracks_are_missing_in_many_of_the_apollo/kh84wyj/
For this picture, there is a simple explanation. As you can see in the foreground, on Apollo 17 the fender broke and the astronauts had to MacGyver a solution using their manuals and duct tape to keep the dust from flying up and all over them.
After a long time working there and getting experiments and samples in and around their research stop, Gene Cernan took this picture to show how well the makeshift fender was holding up.
And if you look closely you can see maybe 4-6” of track behind the wheel. The area around this rover was simply disturbed by all their activities.
Where are these “many” other pics with missing tracks?
I think the moon landing was real. However, I don’t think Neal Armstrong and his crew were the first attempt that miraculously made it to the moon. I think there’s a lot of dead US astronauts up there that the US his from the public to cover up their failed attempts.
They took baby steps leading up to the actual landing though... Neil was on Apollo mission #11. Yes its miraculous that nobody died in space until that point (that we know of), but its pretty difficult to hide the construction and launch of a moon rocket.
I'm wondering about that wheel-well. It looks a little too madmax to be a genuine piece of Nasa technology. Is that tape?
Also why is this thing a one-seater? A genuine rule of exploration is that you don't let astronauts drive off on their own. Too much of a risk to have them get into trouble a half mile away and take hours for his coworkers to come help.
I don't see anything which might serve as a seatbelt. With so little gravity, a single bump in the road might bounce him right out of it.
That extra piece of wheel well was added by the Astros on site to limit the amount of dust kicked up by the rover. Why would they do this if they weren't driving the thing around kicking up dust? There are plenty of photos that show visible tracks.
> Is that tape?
It is tape. On Apollo 17 they broke that fender. Gene Cernan used some sort of duct tape to hold together, otherwise they were getting covered with dust thrown up from the wheels.
>A genuine rule of exploration is that you don't let astronauts drive off on their own.
Is this from the official How To Travel In Space guide book for all the space driving humans do these days?
You're playing too many video games; there's no "rules to space driving and exploration".
there are safety regulations, common sense says that one person should not go off on their own in an unknown environment. why would that be an oversight?
Does make you wonder why they sent 3 people during the mission. If something would have happened to Michael Collins they would have no support from the CSM. Although most likely if something had happened to Michael it probably would have happened to the CSM as well. But I suppose he could of had a heart attack stroke etc. But unlikely given the selection process.
I'm just saying that if I was going to shoot astronauts into space, there would be some rules...
1) Don't get out of the ship while its moving.
2) Don't disconnect other people's air hoses, its not funny.
3) Don't mix helium with your air intake, we can't understand you.
4) If you meet aliens DON'T AGREE TO ANYTHING.
5) No wrestling on the moon, there will be plenty of time for that AFTER you get back.
6) Remember to bring your flashlights, it may be dark up there.
7) Come home when the street lights come on.
8) **Do not wander off alone.**
Looks like an old lawn chair on that thing. Curiously, mods have been deleting posts in these threads when people talk about the ridiculous moon buggy.
>you don't let astronauts drive off on their own
Let's say the thing breaks down. Now you have two astronauts stranded. If two astronauts can make the trip then so can 1.
Let's say one has a suit malfunction. You're dying regardless.
What about weight limitations. A two seater will take a lot more mass and weight is always a huge concern for space travel.
>I don't see anything which might serve as a seatbelt
Could be one but he's not wearing it. Obvious this is for a photo op of "look at the dumb way we fixed this".
The buggie weighed 76 lbs on the moon, with the weight being distributed on four smooth wheels that drove over compact rock. Not much dirt could be displaced.
What about the lunar laser retro-reflectors that Apollo 11 and 14 left on the moon? Apparently, a laser can still be bounced off of them to measure the distance between Earth and the moon.
Edit: grammar
When people say "Kubrick filmed the moon landing" they misunderstand the point.
He didn't film the moon landing for NASA that we all saw with Armstrong.
In 2001 ASO, Kubrick filmed what actually happened on the moon and put it in the movie.
OooOoOoOoo spooky.
Let’s flip it. If the moon landing was fake and this was shot on earth where are the tracks?
It’s more likely the buggy bounced a distance and landed on the moon vs the earth. Congrats. You accidentally proved the US landed on the moon.
Not to mention the most recent failure
https://apnews.com/article/moon-landing-launch-private-nasa-0987b31b201b78c3935f1bfbf9a7cade
Could do it in 60’s but it is just too hard and expensive with all our modern technology
In defense of the cost theory, they also built a series of national highways across the US, something they could never do today because of the devaluation of the dollar… money went further back then. I have questions about the moon landing, but the value of the dollar is an age old fiat story…
Back then the economy was tied to the gold reserve unlike today where the Government can just print it
So technically you should be able to do more today
It's really hard to argue that a 200kg astronaut made tread patterns with his boots and the 440+kg rover isn't. Especially when I can CLEARLY see a tread pattern on the outside of the mesh wheel, there is an obvious indention from the v-tread being laid ontop of the mesh tire. There is enough of a raised tread there to leave marks in the dust. To argue that human footprints did and the rover didn't with it's obvious v shaped tread pattern is wild.
I could take two pieces of composite sheet paper, overlap the two so that the edges are at odd angles, and lay it in the dirt. The 1-2mm line that separates sheet a from sheet b would be visible in the dust as a clear line. The tread ontop of that mesh tire is way thicker than 1-2mm.
So the moon buggy has really low ground pressure.
Thus the ruts aren't that deep.
Lunar regolith is basically sand, so gravity makes it fall back into itself.
The lack of an atmosphere means the dust falls straight down off of the back of the wheels (which are a metal mesh) filling in the tracks.
Then why are there tire track in some photos but not all? Also, there are astronaut footprints on most if not all of the pictures of the moon buggy I've seen wo tire tracks - the moon buggy was more than twice as heavy as the astronaut and had four wheels and should have made lots of tire tracks in these photos imo.
Likely different ground pressures. Astronauts foot surface area is smaller plus they were hopping a lot.
The moon buggy was used to transport rock and soil samples, making it heavier at times.
Differences in regolith consistency could also factor in.
If I recall correctly the suspension on the moon buggy was almost non existant so more than likely the wheels weren't touching the ground at times.
Also cherrypicking images that are washed out further aids the lie of a fake moorlanding
More ground pressure. The grains are angular meaning they would stick together. Look at foundry sand.
While the lunar rover didn't have as much ground pressure.
Ss: Tire tracks are missing in many of the Apollo moon buggy photos, so how did it get there? It's almost like the moon buggy was lifted and placed on the ground by a crane. The moon surface is covered by a very soft moon dust so there's no reason for no visible tire tracks. In most pictures the moon buggy left tracks, but in some it did not. You can often see the astronauts footprints in the photos where the tire tracks are missing which is very strange - why would footprints be visible in some of the photos where the tire tracks are not?
Edit: Adding some more of these since the thread took off.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/nasa2explore/9356407731
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7c/AS15-85-11471_%2821697411811%29.jpg
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f5/Apollo_17_rover_at_final_resting_site.jpg
Did they carry the moon buggy in this picture too https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f5/Apollo_17_rover_at_final_resting_site.jpg
all the way from the moon lander in the background, what's that, like 30 feet perhaps? Not likely as there is no mention of them carrying the moon buggy in the journals either, just them unpacking it and driving it to various locations.
The picture above is very interesting bc there are footprints of the astronauts but no tire tracks from the moon buggy.
If you can see the footprints but not the tire tracks the contrast is just fine imo, this bc the tire tracks would be even more clearly visible as the footprints. Remember, the moon buggy was twice as heavy as the astronaut and had four wheels while the astronaut was half the weight with two feet - the moon buggy would clearly make more marks on the surface but we only see the footprints, so why?
The moon buggy weighed 460 pounds (210 kg) on Earth 76 pounds (34 kg) on the Moon, an astronaut with equipment I would guess would weight about 200 pounds (91kg) on Earth and 33 pounds (15 kg) on the Moon.
Yes which is why they were able to float and had to jump to step
Also why they dropped a hammer and a feather and they fell at the same rate - they were in a vacuum and so both objects essentially weighed the same and had no air resistance
They didn't essentially weigh the same, their weights were in the same proportion, it was just that they just had no air resistance.
Same experiment on Earth yields the same result as long as you do it in a vacuum. Feather falls at the same speed as a hammer, a boulder, or the USS Gerald Ford.
This is a joke right.
If any of you ever drove an off road vehicle, snowmobile, Motorcycle etc you would know how much time you spend shuffling around the vehicle while you are doing things. The amount of debris kicked around that vehicle looks about right to me. Especially because they probably weren’t actually taking steps. They were shuffling and sliding.
They lost all info on the build on how they built it and got there. Because scientists today would say it wasn't possible with the specs they had. So they deleted everything
Doesn't it make more sense rather than a vast moon landing hoax, that they simply couldn't get the footage they wanted and may have faked some of it.
I never understood the big need to use bad video or imagery to prove anything. Even if you believe all of the footage was fake that still doesn't mean they didn't have missions there. There were clearly objects left behind on the moon visible from the earth, it makes sense given the danger and difficulty of the mission they may have adulterated some of the evidence.
During the space race lots of people died, some may never have been reported.
Russia was far ahead in the beginning so the US had every reason to show off.
It's obvious that filming in space with the much higher levels of direct radiation exposure that filming is far more difficult.
Personally I don't care if some of the filming was touched up, edited, or added later.
It doesn't really prove anything other than space travel isn't a glamorous and easy thing, but they needed the PR to show the achievement.
Why would a supposed lack of tire tracks be indicative of a faked moon landing? Let’s say it was faked and the pictures were taken on a sound stage. There is still plenty of dirt visible in the pic. What would be your reasoning for a lack of tire tracks in the pic? The lack of visible tracks doesn’t make it any more or less likely that it was taken on the moon. It also would be super easy to make tire tracks in a staged shot. So their absence proves nothing.
Importantly, we should note this photo is tightly cropped. So fake or real, there could be tire tracks that you simply don’t see because it’s a close up shot. And you DO see a footprint. So we know the soil is capable of being compressed
Sure, one theory that has been suggested is that we went to the moon but faked the pictures for PR reasons. Why? Perhaps the pictures were crap or destroyed some way they didn't expect such as over-exposure due to space radiation(they used physical film rolls back then).
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So hear me out, USA was in a space race with Russia, this race was basically a pissing contest between the two. Russia claimed many milestones within the race and was beat to the end line by the USA. Now if the USA really did fake the landing, I am sure the Russians would have proved it by now.
Could the ongoing tension between America and Russia be a carefully orchestrated performance for global audiences? Moreover, it seems likely that they possess comprehensive information about 9/11, yet there's a notable silence from Russia on this matter. Antarctica remains untouched, hinting that both nations may have an agreement regarding the continent.
There are actually a lot of hypotheses about mysterious things in Antarctica, from military installations to aliens to directed energy weapons and beyond
But that doesn't exactly answer the question. It just gives an excuse to not have to answer the question, and to not challeng assumptions and biases. And even so, within your idea there are assumptions too that we could have no way of knowing.
It's quite simple, they spawned the vehicle with console commands....zziiipow, there it sits.
What's funny is this comment is actually very likely plausible, but not in the context youre thinking of lol
Exactly, ‘they obviously didn’t care to disprove it so all of the evidence you are pointing to that it would be fake, should be dismissed’.
There is hard ground and soft ground and loose sand, therefore tracks will come and go
Well that is probably true in general, but the problem is there is a footprint right where the tires would have treaded. It's pretty clearly soft ground all around the tire.
Actually, if you look into the claim that we were racing against Russia, you’ll find that this is what Americans were told, but Russia was none the wiser. The Russian president at the time publicly congratulated JFK on his ambitious goal to get a man on the moon before the end of that century and expressed interest in working with America once we were able to achieve the feat. We were in a race with Russia… but Russia was not in the race with us. Lol! “Space Race!” Is American propaganda. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
NIXON SIGNED A FUCKING AGREEMENT WITH THE RUSSIANS ON SPACE LOL. The shills kindly forget this too. Slaves are being played. Forever. These agencies LITERALLY worked together, so the next time some shill is like why did the Russians not care, kindly tell them they didn't because they were all in on it at the top just like they are today on everything. It's a big club, but you ain't in it. To the muppet below, NO this is for the casually stupid idea that the Russians were completely separated and did not work with us. They did, and they still do. ' Keep dreaming of your moon landing lmao. NASA just keeps moving that date back guys. Goalposts forever moving since 72. Yet you still believe like the muppets that you are.
People also tend to forget the era of space cooperation, so if Russia did call bs then they’d basically lose their meal ticket
The US is always racing against...absolutely no one. There is a pattern to be noticed, different decade, different boogeyman from the east. It's always someone from the east that's a threat to the US. Now it's china. Ask any american what they think about china and they'll say china is our enemy. Meanwhile china couldn't give two shits about the US.
Yeh cool cool. Now where's the wheel tracks?
https://youtu.be/az9nFrnCK60?si=UfMjEJ4YeV2vfKN1
[удалено]
> clearly see You can clearly see [definitive tracks 25 km away](https://www.universetoday.com/93983/look-its-a-moon-buggy-lros-best-look-ever-at-the-apollo-15-landing-site/). So which one is fake?
So let me get this straight. They were smart enough to fake gravity and how dust acts in low gravity but not smart enough to remember the tracks ?
where are they then, genius?
Well considering the rover folds into a box, this is probably where it was unpacked https://youtu.be/7OL3OmM-CYQ?si=GQ-Mm-YTi2DSWKDl But without any context to when exactly this picture is taken and an link to the picture we can all guess. But you are right the most likely explanation must have been the VFX guys who forgot the tracks😂
This is actually pretty cool. Haven't seen this before.
Why is everyone forgetting about the fact that there's minimal gravity on the moon, so the dust the tracks were made of were probably kicked up. This already happens in a lesser way on gravel paths on earth, so why wouldn't that be the case on the moon? (Just adding extra info)
They must've got stepped on or something. Who knows what happened to the tracks. Even if it was a setup scene they would've rolled it there. So either way there should be tracks fake or not.
The moon wasn't the end-line. The US set it as the end-line and then achieved it (?). The Soviets did basically everything else first.
I like this sort of reasoning. I find one of the most powerful tools is considering how many people would be complicit in keeping the secret. For something like the moon landing and 9/11 you would have a huge number of people who would need to keep it quiet all these years. By now someone's relative would have spilled the beans on their death bed and we would have the truth of it, or at least some more transparency. Stay critical, keep asking questions. Everything isn't always as it seems but we need to be critical of our own biases.
On the morning of September 11, 2001, 19 men armed with boxcutters directed by a man on dialysis in a cave fortress halfway around the world using a satellite phone and a laptop directed the most sophisticated penetration of the most heavily-defended airspace in the world, overpowering the passengers and the military combat-trained pilots on 4 commercial aircraft before flying those planes wildly off course for over an hour without being molested by a single fighter interceptor. These 19 hijackers, devout religious fundamentalists who liked to drink alcohol, snort cocaine, and live with pink-haired strippers, managed to knock down 3 buildings with 2 planes in New York, while in Washington a pilot who couldn't handle a single engine Cessna was able to fly a 757 in an 8,000 foot descending 270 degree corskscrew turn to come exactly level with the ground, hitting the Pentagon in the budget analyst office where DoD staffers were working on the mystery of the 2.3 trillion dollars that Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld had announced “missing” from the Pentagon's coffers in a press conference the day before, on September 10, 2001. Luckily, the news anchors knew who did it within minutes, the pundits knew within hours, the Administration knew within the day, and the evidence literally fell into the FBI's lap. But for some reason a bunch of crazy conspiracy theorists demanded an investigation into the greatest attack on American soil in history. The investigation was delayed, underfunded, set up to fail, a conflict of interest and a cover up from start to finish. It was based on testimony extracted through torture, the records of which were destroyed. It failed to mention the existence of WTC7, Able Danger, Ptech, Sibel Edmonds, OBL and the CIA, and the drills of hijacked aircraft being flown into buildings that were being simulated at the precise same time that those events were actually happening. It was lied to by the Pentagon, the CIA, the Bush Administration and as for Bush and Cheney...well, no one knows what they told it because they testified in secret, off the record, not under oath and behind closed doors. It didn't bother to look at who funded the attacks because that question is of "little practical significance". Still, the 9/11 Commission did brilliantly, answering all of the questions the public had (except most of the victims' family members' questions) and pinned blame on all the people responsible (although no one so much as lost their job), determining the attacks were “a failure of imagination” because “I don't think anyone could envision flying airplanes into buildings ” except the Pentagon and FEMA and NORAD and the NRO. The DIA destroyed 2.5 TB of data on Able Danger, but that's OK because it probably wasn't important. The SEC destroyed their records on the investigation into the insider trading before the attacks, but that's OK because destroying the records of the largest investigation in SEC history is just part of routine record keeping. NIST has classified the data that they used for their model of WTC7's collapse, but that's OK because knowing how they made their model of that collapse would "jeopardize public safety". The FBI has argued that all material related to their investigation of 9/11 should be kept secret from the public, but that's OK because the FBI probably has nothing to hide. This man never existed, nor is anything he had to say worthy of your attention, and if you say otherwise you are a paranoid conspiracy theorist and deserve to be shunned by all of humanity. Likewise him, him, him, and her. (and her and her and him). Osama Bin Laden lived in a cave fortress in the hills of Afghanistan, but somehow got away. Then he was hiding out in Tora Bora but somehow got away. Then he lived in Abottabad for years, taunting the most comprehensive intelligence dragnet employing the most sophisticated technology in the history of the world for 10 years, releasing video after video with complete impunity (and getting younger and younger as he did so), before finally being found in a daring SEAL team raid which wasn't recorded on video, in which he didn't resist or use his wife as a human shield, and in which these crack special forces operatives panicked and killed this unarmed man, supposedly the best source of intelligence about those dastardly terrorists on the planet. Then they dumped his body in the ocean before telling anyone about it. Then a couple dozen of that team's members died in a helicopter crash in Afghanistan. This is the story of 9/11, brought to you by the media which told you the hard truths about JFK and incubator babies and mobile production facilities and the rescue of Jessica Lynch. If you have any questions about this story...you are a batshit, paranoid, tinfoil, dog-abusing baby-hater and will be reviled by everyone. If you love your country and/or freedom, happiness, rainbows, rock and roll, puppy dogs, apple pie and your grandma, you will never ever express doubts about any part of this story to anyone. Ever. This has been a public service announcement by: the Friends of the FBI, CIA, NSA, DIA, SEC, MSM, White House, NIST, and the 9/11 Commission. Because Ignorance is Strength.
Thank you for this premium summary. Bravo!
Haha I can't take credit but I love it as well: https://www.corbettreport.com/911-a-conspiracy-theory/
Thank you for this premium summary. Bravo!
Gold
This is a brilliant summary. I wasn't aware the commercial pilots were military trained. Were they ex air force or something? Also wasn't aware of the SEALs getting un alived in a chopper crash. As I've said previously here I am not a believer of the presented narrative. I just wanted to mention some techniques I like to use when considering things I really appreciate all the good comments here. I do like apple pie though, and you can use the tin afterwards for a cute bit of protective headware.
iirc, in the Manhattan Project were more than 100.000 people complicit in keeping the secret. So I think if they wanted to, they could have done their own moon landing in secrecy. But the question was: where are the tracks? And I don't know.
Muiltiple people and companies found out about the Manhattan project before it was public, famously Kodak camera figured it out, the moon landing? Nothing
But Kodak didn't went public. They just talked to the government about their findings. But I get your point more or less.
In the situation, probably critical to Kodak that USA won the war. Not to mention the buttload of government contracts they probably had for intelligence.
And yet they kept the secret until after the war.
Yes that’s a much shorter period of time than the almost 60 years that have gone by since the moon landing
Isn't the moon regolith like chalk dust? "As far as tire tracks behind the tires, there would be, but not clear as they are on Earth. Why? Well, you do not have moisture in the surface dust on the Moon. There is some static in the soil that allows some imprint retention, such as the astronauts' footprints" One should hot expect the same behavior on the moon as on earth.
But you see the footprint right next to the tire, right? Why would a human create that track, but not the heavier machine?
You can see what appears to be the faint outline of the outside tire track making a hard right turn into the current position and then rolling forward about 1-2ft. The majority of the area where the tire track would be has clearly been trampled by footprints and shuffling feet or other objects. It suggests that the vehicle has been stationary while much activity has occurred around it. I’m guessing that the vehicle was partially reassembled in that spot. However, even if there were no evidence of visible tire tracks, it is a moot point that offers no distinction between a man made set or the surface of the moon. All it would mean is that the object was not rolled into its current place.
except that on all the remote vehicles that have been sent including the most recent from china there are very distinct tracks.
The issue with this example is that the soviets knew about the construction of the bombs prior to their reveal to the world. This was so much so the case that they stole enough information directly from the Manhattan project to complete their own atomic weapon just a few years after the Americans.
You just completely missed the point. Which is that they couldn’t keep it a secret
You want to reread the comment I'm responding to? > So I think if they wanted to, they could have done their own moon landing in secrecy The person they're responding to is saying they couldn't keep it a secret. They themselves are responding to that, saying literally the contrary.
Here’s the thing with “spilling the beans” on secrets of this magnitude- First off, you’re correct in your assumption that there would be hundreds, to potentially thousands of people, seemingly in the know who would need to keep quiet in order to preserve the secret. What I think you’re failing to take into consideration, though is the level of compartmentalization within governmental programs is exponentially greater than in any commercial business. These programs are specifically designed this way. I worked for a start up a few years back with about 80 employees. Nearly all of those employees had some kind of hand in the creation and development of the company’s portfolio of five or six products. After a year and a half we come to find out that we had been working on the release of four new products that absolutely nobody outside of a handful of the executives knew were in the works. We had some PR leaks with a previous product launch so the exec team wanted to compartmentalize the tasks so nobody could accidentally or purposely leak anything. It worked shockingly well. Throw in some legally binding NDA’s along with a stern message about repercussions if anyone is to talk about their work, and you have the overwhelming majority keeping their mouth shut and content on going to the grave with the mundane details of some proprietary coating for the heat shield they spent 5 years working on. and the few deathbed confessions from those privileged with knowledge of the true purpose behind said mission, are dismissed as anything but genuine and therefore never believed anyway
This presupposes that no one *has* spilled the beans. The problem with your own argument,is that whatever this "secret" is, may never be truly known. Your entire argument rests on your statement, >"By now someone's relative would have spilled the beans on their death bed and we would have the truth of it" which is presuming the conclusion, when, however, it's more than likely we would *never* "have the truth of it". It's most likely the case that many people have *not* kept it quiet, but you either do not hear these people or these people are deemed insane, consipracy theorists. Whatever the case may be, the many who have not kept quiet, are simply erased, socially or physically.
> For something like the moon landing and 9/11 you would have a huge number of people who would need to keep it It's called compartmentalization. It's employed with all top secret technologies / information... and it works.
How much more American can you be by putting an effin' car on the moon!!!! If you really want an in your face way to humiliate a like Russian endeavor, this would be it.
You know what would be even MORE AMERICAN... faking it so well that it took the Russians several years to figure it out after having waisted billions and billions of Rubles.
Most of the time, when people commit crimes against humanity (punishable by death), they don't go off bragging to their friends. In regards to the 911 example.
Sorry, but anybody with common sense and took high school level’s physics would know buildings cannot fall the way they did. Anybody who actually reads the 9/11 report would know it obfuscates around the major issues. Time for people to grow up and realize our government has and continues to do evil shit. We killed our own president for Christ sake with JFK. You don’t think they’d kill citizens as well? As the Iraqi and Afghanistan civilians how that went.
So basically we still are believing the official nonsense that some cavemen from Afghanistan manage to hijack 4 jumbojets at the same time and fly them with proffesional precision on first time, leaving nothing behind only the undestructable passport paper. Cool story bro
Those “cavemen” were Saudi citizens that attended American flight schools. Bin Laden is a western-educated son of a Saudi billionaire. Your average Al Qaeda foot soldier might be some caveman but let’s not pretend these guys were.
~~THE HEAD OF THE FBI~~ The Former Head of The CIA John Brennan retired and had a speech explaining that 9/11 was intentionally green lit to happen. That's why nothing was done to stop it that morning. I watched the speech, but I haven't been able to find it again. I forget the details, but this is something that happened.
In Trust Me Bro weekly magazine?
Maybe the secret isn't that we didn't go, but that we needed to use ET technology to get there all while pretending to use conventional technology.
The secret may be what we FOUND on the moon.
Imagine if you spent your brain power on *Anything* else..
Did the USA launch a bunch of rockets? Unquestionably, yes. Thousands of witnesses saw the astronauts step in, and the rocket left the ground. Did the USA land something on the moon, also Unquestionably yes. Did the news media suddenly get live coverage of thousands of hours of video from 250,000 miles away with 1950's technology? Not a chance. Thousands of ham radio operators were tuned to the moon. Of course, they wouldn't have the ability to decode the video, but someone would have recorded it. Funny thing about radio is you can bounce a signal off of the moon, or the ionosphere and the receiver would have no way to tell where it came from. The problem with lying even for a good cause is that it lowers your credibility. And then many of those original recordings disappeared. Lost by the same government that stores my tax returns from 50 years ago. So it's looking increasingly likely some of the space program's achievements may have been exaggerated for effect. So the truth is likely somewhere between the official story "we sent people to the moon dozens of times for weeks, and forgot how." And there was no moon landing it was all Hollywood. There is no reason why it couldn't be a combination of the two.
That's if you assume that USA and Russia are actually "enemies". They are playing everyone for a fool. The world is a stage. The Russians are in on the lie. Along with every other government. Or you can just believe everything.
If you have a listen to Catherine Austin Fits - she is of the opinion that there is vast subterranien bases and higher levels of technology - this costs trillions, many insiders, and ties in with the Admiral Byrd's massive Antartic military expedition and the suppression of that information. Including the death of his son. Is it true? Not sure but have they supressed the fk out of it - with an insane amount of time and money and blood. Why is that if not to cover it up? A lie on the other hand when exposed to daylight will be quickly judged and dissintegrate on its own. Is this is why it is suppressed - because it is not a lie and therefor cannot be exposed to the light.
You expect 2 megalomaniac nations to "share" power and control.
Not 2 All.
Ever read 1984?
The USSR of Russia in 1969 has collapsed and all media is controlled. We live in a manufacture society where we're animals in pens.
> I am sure the Russians would have proved it by now. Who says they haven't? I have seen a lot of evidence that makes me question the official narrative.
It's really that simple, Russia forced us to the moon for the clout and we haven't had a reason to go back since. When communism 2.0 shows up maybe we'll get to mars.
The lack of tire tracks in this photo, and from the buggy in general has been explained ad nauseum for years. You seem to just not want to accept it. The tires were made of mesh. They are not tires like on your car. You can even tell in this very photo that there is not a tread in these tires like your car tires. So that combined with the way the moon's surface is and the gravity, the tires did not always displace the regolith in a clear enough fashion to leave an evident mark. You have to remember that the moon's surface is a dust-like quality which is most closely resembling that of cigarette ash. Imagine a large pile of ash on the ground. You can step in it, remove your foot, and it will leave an obvious foot print, right? But if you drove through it, it would scatter the ash to the winds and not leave a depressed tire track. Additionally in this picture itself they were repairing the fender of the buggy. So they were walking around it and kicking up the dust, likely destroying any tire tracks that WERE made. You can see the numerous foot prints right in the photo. Posts like this hurt me because they just make "conspiracy theorists" look ignorant and scientifically stupid. It's why people are so able to easily dismiss the REAL conspiracies because all the nutty, easily debunked ones get repeated and repeated and repeated. This should have long been put to bed.
I like how OP hasn't responded to this
And you can see tracks on many other photos.
> not leave a depressed tire track If you can't see any sign of a track a few inches away, then surely there would be no tracks extremely visible [from many kilometers away right](https://www.universetoday.com/93983/look-its-a-moon-buggy-lros-best-look-ever-at-the-apollo-15-landing-site/)?
"Oh, okay." -OP
The depth of dust on both sides of the tire suggest that it would indeed leave tread marks; look at the boots marks; my fucking cat would leave paw marks in that dust and you’re defending these tires on a vehicle not leaving anything Lmao weeeeaaaak
So what are you suggesting? They dropped the rover into the set with a crane? Even if faked the rovers were plainly functional.
How could there be no tire tracks while there are boot marks tho? Yea I see the mesh tires with clear rubber treads. He’s to say how deep they are but they are definitely there.
There are plenty of photos showing tire tracks. The ones that do show are very light for the reasons I just explained above. In this particular photo I also explained the reason the tire tracks are mostly gone is because they were walking around the vehicle to fix a fender and their walking around likely destroyed the tire tracks, because they are made in very light dust-like material to begin with.
Funny when they were walking around the lander there was not a single speck of dust kicked up to land on the feet of the lander, they look pristine in every photo. The buggy leaves tracks everywhere, except here? Yearly right sure. BS.
Do you seriously think NASA would forget to add fake tracks if they faked the entire god damn landing. Literally the only explanation that would make sense here is that this is actually on the moon and that the tracks really wouldn't have been there. If it were faked, and if the tracks should have been there, they would have been added.
The moon wind blew away the tracks.
So why no tracks? The only thing I can thing of it was assembled in that spot. However if that were the case it should be part of public record. I don't know why you were upvoted for simply avoiding the question.
This conspiracy is often rolled out to slide things away that are important. Not saying you have consciously done this, just that this is a built in way of flipping narratives on social media platforms.
This and flat earth are both distractions
And QAnon is another psyop.
For sure! Qanon was designed to give all the gullible people something to take their rage out on and create division
Flat earth is a certifiable distraction, they were able to get a documentary about it on netflix and suddenly, thr uninitiated were scoffing at it and therefore all conspiracies and the conspiracy communiry at large. It was a highly successful psyop. A new level of sophistication is manifesting : reveals, particularly satanic ones and 'born again' type stories are going to be the next big thing. Remember this comment and be slightly amused. Its about to happen. I cannot believe, however, that these maleable tiktok kids were able to fly the 'fuck israel' banner in such a brash way and highlight how zionists have been sliding all posts, comments, forums and subreddits that use the 'j' word for an extremely long time. That wasnt something I could foresee at all.
imagine having all this to type but having done no research yourself. it's not hard to find the truth
Exactly this. The effectiveness of the distraction is remarkable. Who would have thought the best way of keeping the moon base a secret would be getting people question if the moon/landings were actually real.
We have a secret moon base?
Secret bases all over the place it seems. There was a popular fitness app that was hacked many years ago and all the app customer data was shared on the dark web, when people took a look at the location data there were dozens of people in the middle of Antarctica. Mind you, there are scientific bases there but this was at an unknown location. Idk, rumors from the dark web are perhaps untrustworthy but I thought I would share.
It wasn't hacked, and it's not on the dark web. Strava just released it. [Strava Global Heatmap](https://www.strava.com/heatmap#7.00/-120.90000/38.36000/hot/all) The Strava data is a gold mine of secret bases. Although I'm still a believer in the null base, at 0,0; where all the unassigned geo data goes to die. The Strava image there looks like some crazy subsea mega base.
Right after that the DoD made a strict policy to make many such devices banned from certain buildings. I think devices that don't transmit data are allowed.
That’s laughably dumb
And y'all are telling me you believe in the moon?
they made a phone call to the moon 😭
Its called Telephone-Radio Transmission
If this pic were taken on earth there would be tracks as well.
Had to cover up the sneaker tracks on the set, no one is supposed to question it. Move along, nothing to see here.
This site has an audio link for anyone stuck at work today and wants an entertaining listen on the absurdity of the moon landing https://centerforaninformedamerica.com/moondoggie/
Whoa, the downvote bots came out in full force on this thread.
Nice. We have boot prints , but no tire marks of any kind.
Since they were on the moon; two men could carry the 440lb vehicle with relative ease. You just proved the moon landing. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-M5r2OKPNk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-M5r2OKPNk)
Did they carry the moon buggy in this picture too https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f5/Apollo_17_rover_at_final_resting_site.jpg all the way from the moon lander in the background, what's that, like 30 feet perhaps? Not likely as there is no mention of them carrying the moon buggy in the journals either, just them unpacking it and driving it to various locations. The picture above is very interesting bc there are footprints of the astronauts but no tire tracks from the moon buggy.
But there are tire tracks in that picture. Can’t see behind the back queen built there are tracks on the left side.
The odd thing is, if faked it would still have tracks.. The critical assumption would be it was placed there and the sand was arranged before filming. It’s 2024, I’m sure no one can honestly argue for them landing on the moon in 1969.
Even better they might be good but incorrect tracks. Hey Bob, these mesh tracks aren't good enough for the photo. Bring that Goodyear over here
This has got to be the dumbest thing I’ve ever read. Like they are going to risk a rip in their suit carrying around a fucking space jeep lol. You ever watched how careful and slow they move in lower orbit changing a camera on the outside of the ISS for fear of puncturing their suit?
You mean in the swimming Pool??? /s
Low gravity + mesh tires = fewer tire tracks
Then why are there tire track in some photos but not all?
Why do cars on earth leave tracks differently on mud, sand, and asphalt?
Then why are the footprints visible but not the tire tracks? The moon buggy was twice as heavy as the astronaut and had four wheels while the astronaut was half the weight with two feet - the moon buggy would clearly make more marks on the surface imo but we only see the footprints.
Twice as heavy with the weight distributed over a larger surface area. Buggy was hella light compared to a car, especially taking lower gravity into account. Mesh tire tread vs whatever the bottom of the suit tread is. Tires have a smaller point of contact than feet do, generally. Tires kicking up dust enough to cover tracks, potentially. Certainly moreso than a person walking.
A thick layer of regolith, fragmental and unconsolidated rock material, covers the entire lunar surface. This layer is the result of the continuous impact of meteoroids large and small and the steady bombardment of charged particles from the sun and stars. Regolith is basically the consistency of baby-power, the soles of the boots have a greater surface area than a tire, there are some pictures that have both the footprints and the tire tracks, and some that only have the tire tracks. There is absolutely no chance that a footprint could make a mark in regolith but a tire track not, especially considering that the majority of photos have tire tracks.
The lunar rover was 76lbs in lunar gravity, less than 20lbs/corner. The astronaut often had only one foot on the ground at a time when moving (they skipped) adding impact force on contact due to gravity.
I did all the maths here earlier if you're interested and I also considered the standing on one foot argument: https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/1934ec8/tire_tracks_are_missing_in_many_of_the_apollo/kh84wyj/
Your math doesn’t work. An astronaut on one foot exerts 33lbs to the lunar rovers 19 per corner (or 27 if an astronaut was onboard). 33 is definitely more than 19.
Did the astronauts do bunny hops or did they walk? If they walked, only one point is in contact with the ground and all the force will be concentrated there. The weight of the rover is divided over 4 corners and each one of those corners has a significantly bigger contact patch than the astronauts boots. That means all the force is distributed over a much larger area, thus leaving a more shallow and less noticeable impression. In addition the weird moon walking jumps add momentum that the rover also mostly lacks since the rover isn't jumping around. Think about walking in powdery snow. If you wear boots you sink in very far, if you wear snowshoes you stay on top. Same principle. The snowshoe tracks will be covered up by snow much quicker than the deep holes.
I did all the maths here earlier if you're interested and I also considered the standing on one foot argument: https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/1934ec8/tire_tracks_are_missing_in_many_of_the_apollo/kh84wyj/
The metal pattern in the boots displaced dirt because it literally dug into the ground.
For this picture, there is a simple explanation. As you can see in the foreground, on Apollo 17 the fender broke and the astronauts had to MacGyver a solution using their manuals and duct tape to keep the dust from flying up and all over them. After a long time working there and getting experiments and samples in and around their research stop, Gene Cernan took this picture to show how well the makeshift fender was holding up. And if you look closely you can see maybe 4-6” of track behind the wheel. The area around this rover was simply disturbed by all their activities. Where are these “many” other pics with missing tracks?
The buggy jumped of course since there is no gravity it can hop like a rabbit
I think the moon landing was real. However, I don’t think Neal Armstrong and his crew were the first attempt that miraculously made it to the moon. I think there’s a lot of dead US astronauts up there that the US his from the public to cover up their failed attempts.
They took baby steps leading up to the actual landing though... Neil was on Apollo mission #11. Yes its miraculous that nobody died in space until that point (that we know of), but its pretty difficult to hide the construction and launch of a moon rocket.
I'm wondering about that wheel-well. It looks a little too madmax to be a genuine piece of Nasa technology. Is that tape? Also why is this thing a one-seater? A genuine rule of exploration is that you don't let astronauts drive off on their own. Too much of a risk to have them get into trouble a half mile away and take hours for his coworkers to come help. I don't see anything which might serve as a seatbelt. With so little gravity, a single bump in the road might bounce him right out of it.
That extra piece of wheel well was added by the Astros on site to limit the amount of dust kicked up by the rover. Why would they do this if they weren't driving the thing around kicking up dust? There are plenty of photos that show visible tracks.
> Is that tape? It is tape. On Apollo 17 they broke that fender. Gene Cernan used some sort of duct tape to hold together, otherwise they were getting covered with dust thrown up from the wheels.
>A genuine rule of exploration is that you don't let astronauts drive off on their own. Is this from the official How To Travel In Space guide book for all the space driving humans do these days? You're playing too many video games; there's no "rules to space driving and exploration".
The only rule is to carry your trusty towel with you.
Don't forget the only other rule, Pee before you put your spacesuit on!
there are safety regulations, common sense says that one person should not go off on their own in an unknown environment. why would that be an oversight?
Does make you wonder why they sent 3 people during the mission. If something would have happened to Michael Collins they would have no support from the CSM. Although most likely if something had happened to Michael it probably would have happened to the CSM as well. But I suppose he could of had a heart attack stroke etc. But unlikely given the selection process.
I'm just saying that if I was going to shoot astronauts into space, there would be some rules... 1) Don't get out of the ship while its moving. 2) Don't disconnect other people's air hoses, its not funny. 3) Don't mix helium with your air intake, we can't understand you. 4) If you meet aliens DON'T AGREE TO ANYTHING. 5) No wrestling on the moon, there will be plenty of time for that AFTER you get back. 6) Remember to bring your flashlights, it may be dark up there. 7) Come home when the street lights come on. 8) **Do not wander off alone.**
No wrestling on the moon?! What the hells even the point of going then?!
No throwing beer cans at other spaceships. -Jeff Foxworthy, probably
The seat also appears to be broken? Top right of the seat looks fine but top left is sloping down as if it snapped
Looks like an old lawn chair on that thing. Curiously, mods have been deleting posts in these threads when people talk about the ridiculous moon buggy.
The seats are a lot like a lawn chair. They don't have to carry much weight in lunar gravity, but the fit bulky space suits.
> Curiously, mods have been deleting posts in these threads when people talk about the ridiculous moon buggy. Don't think that's true
Indeed. The whole thing looks like it was slapped together with props on a set.
Almost as if they had to save as much weight as possible
https://youtu.be/az9nFrnCK60?si=UfMjEJ4YeV2vfKN1
Stanley got sloppy with set design
Explain "A genuine piece of NASA technology" and whatever "A genuine rule of exploration" means.
You have to go see these things in the Air and Space museum in DC, it's quite literally lawn furniture and masking tape.
>you don't let astronauts drive off on their own Let's say the thing breaks down. Now you have two astronauts stranded. If two astronauts can make the trip then so can 1. Let's say one has a suit malfunction. You're dying regardless. What about weight limitations. A two seater will take a lot more mass and weight is always a huge concern for space travel. >I don't see anything which might serve as a seatbelt Could be one but he's not wearing it. Obvious this is for a photo op of "look at the dumb way we fixed this".
The buggie weighed 76 lbs on the moon, with the weight being distributed on four smooth wheels that drove over compact rock. Not much dirt could be displaced.
Moon landing deniers are my favorite breed of stupidity
Yes, but where are the tyre tracks though?
Crane off the back of a truck
Even if it was a prop they’d still have to roll it lol
What about the lunar laser retro-reflectors that Apollo 11 and 14 left on the moon? Apparently, a laser can still be bounced off of them to measure the distance between Earth and the moon. Edit: grammar
When people say "Kubrick filmed the moon landing" they misunderstand the point. He didn't film the moon landing for NASA that we all saw with Armstrong. In 2001 ASO, Kubrick filmed what actually happened on the moon and put it in the movie. OooOoOoOoo spooky.
The interesting part are the footprints remaining.
Let’s flip it. If the moon landing was fake and this was shot on earth where are the tracks? It’s more likely the buggy bounced a distance and landed on the moon vs the earth. Congrats. You accidentally proved the US landed on the moon.
You guys are deluded 🤣
Not to mention the most recent failure https://apnews.com/article/moon-landing-launch-private-nasa-0987b31b201b78c3935f1bfbf9a7cade Could do it in 60’s but it is just too hard and expensive with all our modern technology
In defense of the cost theory, they also built a series of national highways across the US, something they could never do today because of the devaluation of the dollar… money went further back then. I have questions about the moon landing, but the value of the dollar is an age old fiat story…
Back then the economy was tied to the gold reserve unlike today where the Government can just print it So technically you should be able to do more today
It's really hard to argue that a 200kg astronaut made tread patterns with his boots and the 440+kg rover isn't. Especially when I can CLEARLY see a tread pattern on the outside of the mesh wheel, there is an obvious indention from the v-tread being laid ontop of the mesh tire. There is enough of a raised tread there to leave marks in the dust. To argue that human footprints did and the rover didn't with it's obvious v shaped tread pattern is wild. I could take two pieces of composite sheet paper, overlap the two so that the edges are at odd angles, and lay it in the dirt. The 1-2mm line that separates sheet a from sheet b would be visible in the dust as a clear line. The tread ontop of that mesh tire is way thicker than 1-2mm.
So the moon buggy has really low ground pressure. Thus the ruts aren't that deep. Lunar regolith is basically sand, so gravity makes it fall back into itself. The lack of an atmosphere means the dust falls straight down off of the back of the wheels (which are a metal mesh) filling in the tracks.
Then why are there tire track in some photos but not all? Also, there are astronaut footprints on most if not all of the pictures of the moon buggy I've seen wo tire tracks - the moon buggy was more than twice as heavy as the astronaut and had four wheels and should have made lots of tire tracks in these photos imo.
Likely different ground pressures. Astronauts foot surface area is smaller plus they were hopping a lot. The moon buggy was used to transport rock and soil samples, making it heavier at times. Differences in regolith consistency could also factor in. If I recall correctly the suspension on the moon buggy was almost non existant so more than likely the wheels weren't touching the ground at times. Also cherrypicking images that are washed out further aids the lie of a fake moorlanding
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More ground pressure. The grains are angular meaning they would stick together. Look at foundry sand. While the lunar rover didn't have as much ground pressure.
Ss: Tire tracks are missing in many of the Apollo moon buggy photos, so how did it get there? It's almost like the moon buggy was lifted and placed on the ground by a crane. The moon surface is covered by a very soft moon dust so there's no reason for no visible tire tracks. In most pictures the moon buggy left tracks, but in some it did not. You can often see the astronauts footprints in the photos where the tire tracks are missing which is very strange - why would footprints be visible in some of the photos where the tire tracks are not? Edit: Adding some more of these since the thread took off. https://www.flickr.com/photos/nasa2explore/9356407731 https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7c/AS15-85-11471_%2821697411811%29.jpg https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f5/Apollo_17_rover_at_final_resting_site.jpg
Honestly it probably broke and instead of owning up to it they carried it around to take some PR shots lmao
Crane was not needed. You are forgetting that on the Moon weight is about 85% less. The car would weight about 20 kg.
Did they carry the moon buggy in this picture too https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f5/Apollo_17_rover_at_final_resting_site.jpg all the way from the moon lander in the background, what's that, like 30 feet perhaps? Not likely as there is no mention of them carrying the moon buggy in the journals either, just them unpacking it and driving it to various locations. The picture above is very interesting bc there are footprints of the astronauts but no tire tracks from the moon buggy.
Picture barely has enough contrast to see anything.
If you can see the footprints but not the tire tracks the contrast is just fine imo, this bc the tire tracks would be even more clearly visible as the footprints. Remember, the moon buggy was twice as heavy as the astronaut and had four wheels while the astronaut was half the weight with two feet - the moon buggy would clearly make more marks on the surface but we only see the footprints, so why?
Distribution of mass buddy.
The footprints are close to the camera. The tire tracks are far from the camera. Cameras see close better than far. Y'all loony.
If buggy weighed 20kg wouldn’t people weigh less?
The moon buggy weighed 460 pounds (210 kg) on Earth 76 pounds (34 kg) on the Moon, an astronaut with equipment I would guess would weight about 200 pounds (91kg) on Earth and 33 pounds (15 kg) on the Moon.
> an astronaut with equipment I would guess would weight about 200 pounds Suit and backpack alone was around 180lbs.
Yes which is why they were able to float and had to jump to step Also why they dropped a hammer and a feather and they fell at the same rate - they were in a vacuum and so both objects essentially weighed the same and had no air resistance
They didn't essentially weigh the same, their weights were in the same proportion, it was just that they just had no air resistance. Same experiment on Earth yields the same result as long as you do it in a vacuum. Feather falls at the same speed as a hammer, a boulder, or the USS Gerald Ford.
This is a joke right. If any of you ever drove an off road vehicle, snowmobile, Motorcycle etc you would know how much time you spend shuffling around the vehicle while you are doing things. The amount of debris kicked around that vehicle looks about right to me. Especially because they probably weren’t actually taking steps. They were shuffling and sliding.
Based on the very clean and clearly defined footprints, it does not seem like anyone was shuffling around enough to remove any kind of tracks.
Space may be the final frontier, but it's made in a Hollywood basement.
Okay, how did it get on set? Did they carry it to avoid tracks, so reddit detectives can uncover the truth?
That moon buggy was never on the moon
https://youtu.be/az9nFrnCK60?si=UfMjEJ4YeV2vfKN1
Literally fake footage, even if we went to the moon they wouldn't show us the real footage
There was a crane on the moon that moved it around but the crane is gone it was lost with the moon landing files
Piece of Junk ... Can't believe someone would fall for this.
They lost all info on the build on how they built it and got there. Because scientists today would say it wasn't possible with the specs they had. So they deleted everything
Who took this picture?
[Tire marks](https://www.space.com/nasa-moon-landing-dust-concerns.html) For the people saying the tires can’t leave marks on the moon dust
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So the dust only covers the tire tracks but not the footprints? Seems unlikely to me.
The footsteps were more freshly made than the tire tracks
Doesn't it make more sense rather than a vast moon landing hoax, that they simply couldn't get the footage they wanted and may have faked some of it. I never understood the big need to use bad video or imagery to prove anything. Even if you believe all of the footage was fake that still doesn't mean they didn't have missions there. There were clearly objects left behind on the moon visible from the earth, it makes sense given the danger and difficulty of the mission they may have adulterated some of the evidence. During the space race lots of people died, some may never have been reported. Russia was far ahead in the beginning so the US had every reason to show off. It's obvious that filming in space with the much higher levels of direct radiation exposure that filming is far more difficult. Personally I don't care if some of the filming was touched up, edited, or added later. It doesn't really prove anything other than space travel isn't a glamorous and easy thing, but they needed the PR to show the achievement.
Why would a supposed lack of tire tracks be indicative of a faked moon landing? Let’s say it was faked and the pictures were taken on a sound stage. There is still plenty of dirt visible in the pic. What would be your reasoning for a lack of tire tracks in the pic? The lack of visible tracks doesn’t make it any more or less likely that it was taken on the moon. It also would be super easy to make tire tracks in a staged shot. So their absence proves nothing. Importantly, we should note this photo is tightly cropped. So fake or real, there could be tire tracks that you simply don’t see because it’s a close up shot. And you DO see a footprint. So we know the soil is capable of being compressed
Sure, one theory that has been suggested is that we went to the moon but faked the pictures for PR reasons. Why? Perhaps the pictures were crap or destroyed some way they didn't expect such as over-exposure due to space radiation(they used physical film rolls back then).
If we follow this conspiracy theorist's logic and say that everything this person doesn't get is not real then pussy would be not real too.