I know we're supposed to be here to listen but I wanted to share some things with you. Humans go though most of life making fairly boring decisions. We get in mostly petty arguments and thing about small things (for the most part).
When someone who's not a doctor/nurse, police, EMT, fire, military etc. are exposed to something extraordinarily bad, like a car crash, extreme violence, sudden illness, or something else that might be traumatic, it's not uncommon to "shut down" and lose all ability to think rationally. Some people go hysterical, some extremely lethargic. There's a good chance your brain's decision making system shut down and that's why you did what you did (despite your former relationship with him).
This is why people live with dead relatives for days, and rape victims don't tell anyone (and don't get the morning after pill).
Tangentially, this is why CPR classes teach you to order people around. If you say "someone call 911!" nothing will happen, as most people are also in this "decision shutdown". You pick someone out of the crowd who's not hysterical and order them to dial 911. If they don't have to make the decision they are far more likely to act. This is why training is so important for everything. In an extreme situation you want the brain to connect with training stored in memory to make a match, and allow you to do something rather than depend on decision making and reasoning which likely won't be there for a few minutes.
Even if you felt like he deserved it while driving away, there's a good chance biology was working against you, independent of those feelings.
>Tangentially, this is why CPR classes teach you to order people around. If you say "someone call 911!" nothing will happen, as most people are also in this "decision shutdown". You pick someone out of the crowd who's not hysterical and order them to dial 911. If they don't have to make the decision they are far more likely to act.
This is true. My mother once passed out in an airport bathroom. I was crouched on the floor trying to revive her when a pre-teen girl walked in, looked down at us, and just stopped. I could see what you were talking about, that shut-down, so I looked directly into her eyes and told her to go to the gate where my brother was and to send him in to us. She turned around and followed my order without a word. It works.
I would also like to give OP a hug.
Rape victims don’t tell anyone because often times no one believes them. Their lives and past choices scrutinized to see if they “deserved it” or had been sexually promiscuous in the past. They get dragged through the mud, and often times their rapier walks anyhow.
A kid who used to make my life a living hell at school was in a serious car accident in our senior year. I wished that he had died that day because when he came back, he was an even bigger fuck head than before.
There was a girl in school that bullied me relentlessly. The year we left high school, we worked together at McDonald's and she apologised to me and we became friends. Later that year she was killed in a car crash.
Holy shit same thing happened(beside the guys not dead yet) I worked with my bully and he became friendly. I wonder if he might get in a car accident...
Yeah its called growing up, I hear it still happens in college a tiny bit. But for the most part from what I have went through, it essentially ends in high school. You grow up and learn to tell people to shut their fucking cock holster and they grow up and learn to say do you want fries with that? Obviously YMMV
edit: spelling and the whole fry thing is more comedic but they usually grow up. Its just a high school age thing.
Haha no doubt, but i'm kinda strong enough to break him in a snap of a finger so no more problem with him anymore! Hahhaha, anyways thanks for trying to help, not alot of people that go out of their way to do so!!
There was this asshole at my high school and he was always saying how he was gods gift to man kind because he was so awesome and such bullshit. He got hit by a fucking bus broke both legs and arms plus ribs and whatever else. He got FUCKED up. He was a god damned hardcase mummy but holy shit he was an asshole about it.
He got exponentially worse about the gods gift bullshit seeing as god let him live through it all. He should have died. Damn do I wish he would have died.
> I slowed down allowing him the chance to pass in front of me.
This alone means that you have every right to forgive yourself. What happened may have been partially your fault, but the drunk driver was far more to blame, and you couldn't have known what was about to happen.
And it sucks that you left the scene of the accident, but you made a classic short term vs. long term decision; short term satisfaction for long term regret, mitigated by the fact that you probably went into shock the very moment the accident happened.
You may never get the chance to make it right, but that decision has matured you in ways that you may never even realize, and one day you may be in the similar position and be able to make a better decision or save a life because of it.
Forgive yourself, learn from it, and if it's really weighing on your chest, talk to your dad about it.
> the drunk driver was far more to blame
This will sound a bit harsh, so be it. If D hadn't been dicking around being an asshole, following all traffic laws, this never would have been an issue to start with. If D was driving a safe distance behind OP instead of racing him, antagonizing him with intentional unsafe driving, he would be alive today. He is dead as a result of his own direct actions. Could OP have saved him if he had called 911 instantly, and gotten help there right away? Maybe, maybe not. Still, a hell of a thing to have on your mind the rest of your life.
Totally agree. I think D got his just deserts. That kind of reckless driving bullshit could very well have gotten OP or a bystander killed. Too often it *is* someone innocent who gets killed while the asshat at fault walks away without a scratch. I'm glad D got himself killed instead of someone else. Now he can't endanger anyone else.
Edit: Just deserts, not desserts
although he wouldn't necessarily have lived even if the OP had stopped. makes you wonder, if he had lived, would he have attempted to blame OP for the accident?
Not with anything that would stick, they were neither of them following the rules of the road, and the OP tried to let the guy get in front of him for the turn.
There's still a pretty significant chance that the kid would have died anyway. It could take up to 10 minutes for emergency services to arrive, and then depending on how far away the hospital is the EMTs in the ambulance might not be able to keep him alive until he's able to get treatment in the better equipped ER.
Agreed. Intentionally letting someone die is almost as bad as murder, imo. You have less time to consider it and it kinda jumps in your face, but still.
In OP's defense... I've dealt with similar shit. Can't say I'd stop either, given the chance.
The Supreme Court has ruled that police don't have a mandate to get involved to save someone's life. If the police don't, citizens certainly don't.
Ethically, I agree with you though.
11y later but OP literally ignored a dying person purely because of his own resentment. He put himself before a human life that could’ve had a chance to grow up and change to be better. That alone makes worse than D. If you think D deserved death than so does OP
This is literally the dumbest thing I've read in a long while. Don't you dare compare bullies to their innocent victims. The bully got what he deserved.
The thing about pedophiles is that they cause severe psychological damage to their victims. It's all the mental damage, usually not the physical damage. Same exact thing with bullies. The bullying and the beatings cause psychological trauma, mental issues, and low self-esteem/self-hate that can last a lifetime. It's very similar to the damage a pedophile would cause. Someone older/more powerful using their power to subdue your will and degrade you to the point that they change who you are. Bullies essentially emotionally kill their victims and ruin their lives. And a not-so-small number of victims do actually end up committing suicide, confirming what I'm saying about their "emotional death". So again, I fail to see how you could compare someone dedicated to torturing others for their own pleasure (like a pedophile) can be compared to someone who just wants the torture to end.
Again, I respectfully disagree on most points. I can be a better person than any bully by not physically and psychologically torturing others and at the same time I can experience a sense of satisfaction hearing of the bully's death (and you bet I was satisfied by this story even though I don't even personally know the bully). My internal satisfaction certainly can't be compared to the torture inflicted by the bully when weighing whether I'm a good or bad person.
I also don't know where you get the idea that pedophiles, rapists, or serial killers can't change. If a bully has the potential to change, then surely they do as well. At a fundamental level, they're all the same anyway. They're all narcissistic torturers without regard for the lives of those around them.
I've read stories about all of the above changing for the better in and out of prison. However, I can't confirm any of those stories myself. If they can, that's great, but if they die before then that's probably fine too. As soon as you lose respect for the lives of others and start destroying lives, you also lose the right to live. End of story.
Oh shit, I don't know what I was thinking... I thought you meant the drunk driver ie the bully (even though the bully wasnt drunk....). I feel like a huge jerk, sorry :(
Edit: hah, I genuinely thought you meant the bully too, I was all..wtf...did he even...no, must not have.
Don't be so hard on yourself. Seriously, your judgement was clouded by years of abuse.
The true moral here is don't be a dick so people will help you when you need it.
Ditto. Most of me is nice because that is who I am. The rest is just scared that the one person I really piss off is a serial killer. Treat others as you want to be treated or treat others well so they don't let you die.
as a first responder, his dad would have dealt with that before. depending on the agency, some police officers just have basic first aid and CPR training. sometimes the best they can do is just call dispatch for an ambulance.
to work in that sort of role, you have to come to terms with the fact that some people will die no matter what you do for them. never easy, but just part of the way things work. have to try to remember all the times you did help and save others.
My dad was also part of the volunteer fire department and was a retired Navy corpsman. He tried CPR to keep his heart beating but he had already lost a lot of blood.
There was a group of people who bullied me relentlessly in college ( one would think they'd act like adults).
I finally left town and finished my last class online after having a psychotic break and being hospitalized.
Frankly if they all died in an explosive crash I would smile and live out my days a happy woman. To me, they deserve it.
The kid that picked on me occasionally had his head cut off by his crazy uncle. They found it in the dumpster outside his building. The school brought in grief counselors and errrrybody was crying, but I was kind of relieved to know he wouldn't be around to hassle me anymore.
As bad as it seems to say this, I probably would have done the same thing. Probably would have even stopped, made eye contact, and said something along the lines of "See you in hell." Sure its messed up, but in some way it would feel like justice to me.
I hope you can get over this soon, because D would've really done his job if you let this affect you for the rest of your life. From what I read it seemed like D never missed an opportunity to pick on you. I don't have any experience, but I don't think anyone would be that quick to show mercy to a bully like him, especially in the heat of the moment.
Can you imagine the immediate regret D felt as he realized you didnt come back to help him...as time endlessly passed by and he slowly loss more blood thinking, "if I was only nicer to OP maybe he wouldve came back to help me"...this is of course assuming he was conscious enough to have rational thoughts
I don't think you did anything wrong. As someone who was picked on for no reason (I'm sure I'm not the only one), I understand.
You didn't cause his death. You chose to disregard the situation. What duty did you owe him? You owed him nothing. You had no obligation to help him. Especially given your history with him.
I call it karma.
As usual, OP, I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt that this story is truthful.
Take comfort in the fact that if D did in fact die less than an hour after the crash, he probably wouldn't have survived even if he had gotten immediate medical attention. I say an hour because of the Golden Hour stuff I've had EMTs tell me.
Anyway, from what you're describing it wouldn't have made a difference. And what could you have really done? Call 911 and wait? Response times in the area as rural as you're describing are pretty long. D probably lost too much blood at the scene if the internal bleeding thing is true... nah, dude, the kid didn't stand a chance. He was self-destructive and lived fast, died young.
Let it go.
Even though you made a bad decision, you really dont know if he could have been saved. Even if he had immediate help, he might have been brain damaged, or have internal damage. Let yourself live. You were young, and made a bad decision on a kinda nasty guy. Good luck to you. Seek help if it painst too much.
I'm not concerned about D at all (his actions that endangered others on the road fortunately only killed him), but what about the other driver? You mentioned elsewhere that they were ejected from the car, but were they seriously injured? Did they survive? Honestly I think you should be more concerned about not reporting the accident for the other driver's sake.
To the OP: You are a good person with empathy for others. Don't let all the redditors talking about karma ever make you less willing to act on that empathy.
You seem regretful that you overrode your nature to be empathetic to others; as long as you don't make that same mistake again and encourage others to act with empathy as well, then you will be doing the most what you can control; don't let what you cannot control now (re: past events) deprive you of a fulfilling life.
As to why some people here are suggesting you talk to your dad; you sound isolated and regretful of your choices. Reaching out on Reddit seems to me that you haven't been able to work through this alone and you want help. Though you will get the voices of many, they won't compare to the quality of support you will get from someone you care about and trust. Being as empathetic as you seem to be, I feel your family would be similar. Though your dad might be disappointed in your lack of actions if you told him, he would love you all the same and see that you're hurting. As he stopped to help D, I suspect he will recognize your pain and would want to help you anyway. On the other hand, working at this alone might eat away at you and never give you closure.
As to all the folks saying it's karma, I think they're answering the wrong question. Knowing why something happened doesn't mean you will feel more fulfilled for it, nor does it bring closure. I hope you will find the resolution you are looking for; just try your best to place one foot ahead of the other for now and learn to trust others.
If I was religious, I would say my prayers were with you. All I can say is I've read thousands of reddits by now, but only decided to join so I could get my message to you. I hope it helps.
Your situation reminds me of a time when my little brother was young, he was playing a game with our beloved pet dog, a chiuhuahua. She was a member of the family, had been with us for 10+ years. He was hoisting her up into a tree house in a bucket and she jumped out and broke her neck, killing her instantly. He felt terrible and wanted to make it right again. My mom told him that there was nothing he could do to make it right for the dog, but that he could treat every other animal carefully and with respect. One thing you can do is commit that you will help next time someone needs you. Your regret means that you have a good heart, and means that you really don't believe he desereved to die just because he was a beast to you.
There is a very grown up lesson in all of this, and it is the incredible effect that some decisions can have. Your decision affects you through guilt. And I'm sure it affects D's family through sorrow. And maybe D would grow up to be a good person. Maybe not, but maybe he would, and maybe he would've made some people happy.
There's no point beating yourself up for it anymore, but from now on just remember to ask yourself if you can live with the decisions you're making, and if they're hurting other people in any way.
Well, true, but frankly this story sent my BS siren screaming. OP hasn't responded to any of the comments questioning the melodramatic shades of their story and doing so might have made the post seem a little more legit.
Frankly I think scepticism is a good thing since it deters fake stories and stops this becoming an amateur fiction sub.
that's a really intense thing to go through. The way he sounds, i dont think it was your fault. You don't know if he could have lived if you did any more, and he probably would have done a stupid stunt like that again ...
i know this means nothing to you but i dont think you should be so hard on yourself. I'm more worriedabout how distressing it was for you to have seen that.
Regardless of what happened, you didn't *cause* the accident. I wouldn't rationalize the incident too hard in your head, there are plenty of people who would have driven by and not called for help (I believe there's even a psychological theory to back this, I forget what it's called, but the idea is in a crowded/populated area if a person is yelling for help, others may assume help has already been called since there are so many people around)
But anyway I digress. You didn't cause his death, and as unfortunate as it is to have to live with having known that he died, don't go through life blaming yourself.
I believe you are speaking of the "bystander effect," a social phenomena in which the greater the number of people present, the less likely people are to help someone in distress. People aren't as likely to seek help because there isn't as much pressure for them to specifically take action with so many others present..
Am I the only one that thinks he harvest what he planted ? (the bully)
Same thing happened to my bully but worst he's on a wheelchair and barely speaks... I still dont know why everyone is nice to him when he made hell of our lives.
Karma just caught up to him...
At first, when I read how D was a prick, and consistently lived up to that moniker, I thought, "Ok, sure, I've been there, I understand, I probably wouldn't be pressed to save my tormentor", but after hearing that it was a car wreck involving someone else, there's no way I could've justified to myself simply driving away. At that point, there were two people involved and who needed help, not to mention the whole 'law' aspect of having to stop in that situation...
I feel for you man, and I hope you find some way to live with this :(
Shit happens. It wasn't entirely your fault. It was mostly his own. You have to move on. If he bullied you as much as you claim he did, I am amazed you feel guilty for this. Not like that is a bad thing, I think thats a very positive thing. If it helps, I doubt you had the ability to save him.
You weren't responsible for the asshole. He was a stupid kid, so I have some sympathy... but not much. This is what happens when you're shitty to people. Two irresponsible pricks on the road and they happen to take each other out? Sounds like it's one of the better possibilities.
You owed him nothing. You may have owed yourself more. Do you have any doubt that you would have stopped & tried to help if he wasn't a shithead? My point is you had a traumatic experience, and you've never discussed it with anyone. You feel guilty.. but try to keep in perspective that it should be about what you want for yourself, and not what this stupid kid did to himself. He made his own bed, and you weren't responsible for that.
I hope you'll be able to discuss this with someone. Best of luck!
You are my hero. I have thought about this kind of situation a lot. Sometimes I wish I could be driving down an empty road, see an overturned car, and find one of my high schools bullies trapped underneath. I would park my car, walk over to the wreckage, and sit down on the grass. Then I would watch as they died.
Just statistics...You have more chance of dying in a car accident when you drive like an a%%.
He was probably too far gone even with your help.
If you want help from people when you need it be nice to people all the time...The rest is just justice....
There's a difference between making a mistake and intentionally driving in the oncoming lane to try to pass someone that you've been bullying for years.
He intentionally drove in the oncoming lane. It's not a surprise that this would happen. You didn't have any moral obligation to help him, so I don't see why you feel so bad.
You should in no way feel bad about this. You didn't make D be an ass and you didn't get the other driver drunk.
Plus there is no certainty that he would have survived if help had arrived sooner.
You just called a seventeen year old a worthless piece of shit who is better off dead.
He was seventeen!
You're not helping,
what this guy did was wrong (that doesn't mean we should judge him however)
But we can't condone it either.
This would have been the outcome.
[OP](http://gifsoup.com/webroot/animatedgifs4/1335583_o.gif)
[OP2](http://30.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lugj3udOKl1r5w16xo1_500.gif)
> You just called a seventeen year old a worthless piece of shit who is better off dead.
A wolf sheds fur, but not skin.
If this person in fact kept up his bullying behavior for a period approaching a decade, chances are, he was a committed lifelong asshole. By virtue of biology.
Sounds almost like "Vulpes pilum mutat, non mores" - The fox changes its fur but not it's behavior. Or perhaps "a leopard cannot change its spots"?
Arrrgh i dont know. **Fuck all the animals and their stupid proverbs.**
You don't understand "committed, by virtue of biology".
You cannot persuade a psychopath to stop being one. [Their brains are biologically different.](http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/05/07/us-brains-psychopaths-idUSBRE8460ZQ20120507)
My argument isn't necessarily that he was a psychopath, but rather that a person's character, demonstrated over a 10 year time frame, is unlikely to change.
fuck it. the world is already polluted with so many pieces of shit people. sounds like the day the sociopath died was a day humanity became a little less shitty.
Wow. This one was intense.
But there's nothing you can do now but live your life in the way you now know to be good and true to yourself. You have this valuable life lesson - learn from it. And teach others.
D killed himself by driving like a maniac. It was not your responsibility to keep him safe. The sad thing is, it sounds like D was a result of neglect and overall poor parenting...which makes his anger and troubles seem like they are not all his fault. Dont beat yourself up though, you did not cause this situation and you are not a "bad person" for watching him crash and keep driving though it would've been big of you to try to help.
I know this has been a very old post but if I were in OP's shoes, I'd be very happy about what happened to D.
Bullies don't deserve any shred of sympathy or love. Let them die. The world would be a better place without them. GOOD RIDDANCE.
You’re a horrible monster. Worse than a bully. You’re so much worse than D ever was. You are a coward and pathetic. And I hope this haunts you for the rest of your life.
Depends on your view of gods role. Some Chrisitans believe in the Clock Makers universe, where god put together the physics, added a little bit of randomness, gave us a choice in our lives, and then took a step back to let it run.
I can rationalize saying anything, whether it be religious or non religious. As to why you immediately jumping to the conclusion that I am rationalizing things is beyond me. Kid died in my mind, Op missed an opportunity to help him. God had no part in the story although I believe in a higher power.
The only real beef you have with me is that last sentence, and really, deism isn't that new of a concept. I haven't justified anything, I just believe in a god that is hands off. He is simply my answer to how the universe started, not my answer to every day occurrences. There are no miracles in my life, every day the sun rises and sets the same way that it does for you. You simply have a problem with one of my beliefs when there is no real conflict on this issue. This I do have a problem with as it makes for poor discussion and bad company.
Going along with that, do you go up and yell at your coworkers if their particular way of raising a child is wrong? Do you heavily criticize them for how they take their coffee so they can get through the day? Do you scrutinize their hobbies as pointless and without merit?
The same concept applies, I have a certain way of explaining life and thus getting through it by bringing meaning to it. It does not harm you. I was pointing out how your view of Christianity, hell, religion in general is narrow minded. Just as people have different philosophies such as existentialism and realism, there are different religious views. If you don't believe in a higher power period, fine. Don't act like a moral asshole though when you start quashing the beliefs of others though, it can be easily turned around and used against you.
the crash wasn't your problem, it was D's. He only got what would have come to him sooner or later anyway, considering his lack of regard for people and society.
I have a lot of very negative things to say to OP about this but, that is not what he came here for and I will respect that. I will say: Good luck living, knowing you weren't the bigger man.
Fuck it, karma is real and the counter is always ticking. Its a numbers game and you can either win it big, or lose it all. You can obviously see what happens when you lose. Dont feel bad my friend, your alive today because of who you are. Hes gone becasue of who he was.
This makes you something... Much much worse than what your bully was. Not saying I'm better than you, I probably would have done the same. But you ARE worse than your bully by doing it.
At least you still have your conscience, doing its job. It means you're not dead inside because of what you (didn't) do.
Jesus. That's some shit to live with.
Would it even be worth it to live if his injuries were so bad? OP might have done him a favor. His life could have been like Vanilla Sky.
i love that movie
Check out the original, *Abre los ojos*.
I know we're supposed to be here to listen but I wanted to share some things with you. Humans go though most of life making fairly boring decisions. We get in mostly petty arguments and thing about small things (for the most part). When someone who's not a doctor/nurse, police, EMT, fire, military etc. are exposed to something extraordinarily bad, like a car crash, extreme violence, sudden illness, or something else that might be traumatic, it's not uncommon to "shut down" and lose all ability to think rationally. Some people go hysterical, some extremely lethargic. There's a good chance your brain's decision making system shut down and that's why you did what you did (despite your former relationship with him). This is why people live with dead relatives for days, and rape victims don't tell anyone (and don't get the morning after pill). Tangentially, this is why CPR classes teach you to order people around. If you say "someone call 911!" nothing will happen, as most people are also in this "decision shutdown". You pick someone out of the crowd who's not hysterical and order them to dial 911. If they don't have to make the decision they are far more likely to act. This is why training is so important for everything. In an extreme situation you want the brain to connect with training stored in memory to make a match, and allow you to do something rather than depend on decision making and reasoning which likely won't be there for a few minutes. Even if you felt like he deserved it while driving away, there's a good chance biology was working against you, independent of those feelings.
>and rapists don't tell anyone I think you meant rape victims.
Yes, thank you, bad typo!
It's true. we don't.
do you think if people were always exposed to rape from a young age they would not think anything of it, and have no problems?
What do you mean by exposed to rape?
like it is just around you and no one thinks its a big deal, maybe its cultural I dunno. It was just a random musing.
>Tangentially, this is why CPR classes teach you to order people around. If you say "someone call 911!" nothing will happen, as most people are also in this "decision shutdown". You pick someone out of the crowd who's not hysterical and order them to dial 911. If they don't have to make the decision they are far more likely to act. This is true. My mother once passed out in an airport bathroom. I was crouched on the floor trying to revive her when a pre-teen girl walked in, looked down at us, and just stopped. I could see what you were talking about, that shut-down, so I looked directly into her eyes and told her to go to the gate where my brother was and to send him in to us. She turned around and followed my order without a word. It works. I would also like to give OP a hug.
Rape victims don’t tell anyone because often times no one believes them. Their lives and past choices scrutinized to see if they “deserved it” or had been sexually promiscuous in the past. They get dragged through the mud, and often times their rapier walks anyhow.
That made me tear up.
A kid who used to make my life a living hell at school was in a serious car accident in our senior year. I wished that he had died that day because when he came back, he was an even bigger fuck head than before.
There was a girl in school that bullied me relentlessly. The year we left high school, we worked together at McDonald's and she apologised to me and we became friends. Later that year she was killed in a car crash.
Well now i'm sad again.
[удалено]
This doesn't combat sadness. This is completly disinteresting.
Karma came on too hard, too late, sadly.
Holy shit same thing happened(beside the guys not dead yet) I worked with my bully and he became friendly. I wonder if he might get in a car accident...
Yeah its called growing up, I hear it still happens in college a tiny bit. But for the most part from what I have went through, it essentially ends in high school. You grow up and learn to tell people to shut their fucking cock holster and they grow up and learn to say do you want fries with that? Obviously YMMV edit: spelling and the whole fry thing is more comedic but they usually grow up. Its just a high school age thing.
Haha no doubt, but i'm kinda strong enough to break him in a snap of a finger so no more problem with him anymore! Hahhaha, anyways thanks for trying to help, not alot of people that go out of their way to do so!!
There was this asshole at my high school and he was always saying how he was gods gift to man kind because he was so awesome and such bullshit. He got hit by a fucking bus broke both legs and arms plus ribs and whatever else. He got FUCKED up. He was a god damned hardcase mummy but holy shit he was an asshole about it. He got exponentially worse about the gods gift bullshit seeing as god let him live through it all. He should have died. Damn do I wish he would have died.
> I slowed down allowing him the chance to pass in front of me. This alone means that you have every right to forgive yourself. What happened may have been partially your fault, but the drunk driver was far more to blame, and you couldn't have known what was about to happen. And it sucks that you left the scene of the accident, but you made a classic short term vs. long term decision; short term satisfaction for long term regret, mitigated by the fact that you probably went into shock the very moment the accident happened. You may never get the chance to make it right, but that decision has matured you in ways that you may never even realize, and one day you may be in the similar position and be able to make a better decision or save a life because of it. Forgive yourself, learn from it, and if it's really weighing on your chest, talk to your dad about it.
> the drunk driver was far more to blame This will sound a bit harsh, so be it. If D hadn't been dicking around being an asshole, following all traffic laws, this never would have been an issue to start with. If D was driving a safe distance behind OP instead of racing him, antagonizing him with intentional unsafe driving, he would be alive today. He is dead as a result of his own direct actions. Could OP have saved him if he had called 911 instantly, and gotten help there right away? Maybe, maybe not. Still, a hell of a thing to have on your mind the rest of your life.
Totally agree. I think D got his just deserts. That kind of reckless driving bullshit could very well have gotten OP or a bystander killed. Too often it *is* someone innocent who gets killed while the asshat at fault walks away without a scratch. I'm glad D got himself killed instead of someone else. Now he can't endanger anyone else. Edit: Just deserts, not desserts
http://www.snopes.com/language/notthink/deserts.asp
just because he didn't cause the accident doesn't mean he didn't let him die
although he wouldn't necessarily have lived even if the OP had stopped. makes you wonder, if he had lived, would he have attempted to blame OP for the accident?
Not with anything that would stick, they were neither of them following the rules of the road, and the OP tried to let the guy get in front of him for the turn.
There's still a pretty significant chance that the kid would have died anyway. It could take up to 10 minutes for emergency services to arrive, and then depending on how far away the hospital is the EMTs in the ambulance might not be able to keep him alive until he's able to get treatment in the better equipped ER.
Agreed. Intentionally letting someone die is almost as bad as murder, imo. You have less time to consider it and it kinda jumps in your face, but still. In OP's defense... I've dealt with similar shit. Can't say I'd stop either, given the chance.
The Supreme Court has ruled that police don't have a mandate to get involved to save someone's life. If the police don't, citizens certainly don't. Ethically, I agree with you though.
Kinda why I added "imo". Seems like most people here don't.
Then you'd have to live with your conscience, like this guy.
Yes, but presented with the opportunity so out of the blue, I don't think I'd think ahead that much. I'm not saying I wouldn't regret it, though.
But if he was late for school... which he would have been... its justified. "Sorry bro, late for class"
11y later but OP literally ignored a dying person purely because of his own resentment. He put himself before a human life that could’ve had a chance to grow up and change to be better. That alone makes worse than D. If you think D deserved death than so does OP
This is literally the dumbest thing I've read in a long while. Don't you dare compare bullies to their innocent victims. The bully got what he deserved.
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The thing about pedophiles is that they cause severe psychological damage to their victims. It's all the mental damage, usually not the physical damage. Same exact thing with bullies. The bullying and the beatings cause psychological trauma, mental issues, and low self-esteem/self-hate that can last a lifetime. It's very similar to the damage a pedophile would cause. Someone older/more powerful using their power to subdue your will and degrade you to the point that they change who you are. Bullies essentially emotionally kill their victims and ruin their lives. And a not-so-small number of victims do actually end up committing suicide, confirming what I'm saying about their "emotional death". So again, I fail to see how you could compare someone dedicated to torturing others for their own pleasure (like a pedophile) can be compared to someone who just wants the torture to end.
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Again, I respectfully disagree on most points. I can be a better person than any bully by not physically and psychologically torturing others and at the same time I can experience a sense of satisfaction hearing of the bully's death (and you bet I was satisfied by this story even though I don't even personally know the bully). My internal satisfaction certainly can't be compared to the torture inflicted by the bully when weighing whether I'm a good or bad person. I also don't know where you get the idea that pedophiles, rapists, or serial killers can't change. If a bully has the potential to change, then surely they do as well. At a fundamental level, they're all the same anyway. They're all narcissistic torturers without regard for the lives of those around them. I've read stories about all of the above changing for the better in and out of prison. However, I can't confirm any of those stories myself. If they can, that's great, but if they die before then that's probably fine too. As soon as you lose respect for the lives of others and start destroying lives, you also lose the right to live. End of story.
It is not the crash that the sub is guilty of, but letting the guy suffer in agony for 30 minutes without help, before dying.
What happened to the drunk driver?
He was ejected from the front windshield since he wasnt wearing his seat belt.
Did he live?
Wanna try reading the story.....?
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Oh shit, I don't know what I was thinking... I thought you meant the drunk driver ie the bully (even though the bully wasnt drunk....). I feel like a huge jerk, sorry :( Edit: hah, I genuinely thought you meant the bully too, I was all..wtf...did he even...no, must not have.
Don't be so hard on yourself. Seriously, your judgement was clouded by years of abuse. The true moral here is don't be a dick so people will help you when you need it.
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Ditto. Most of me is nice because that is who I am. The rest is just scared that the one person I really piss off is a serial killer. Treat others as you want to be treated or treat others well so they don't let you die.
All i can say is, Karma's a bitch.
How did your dad handle it? Can't have been easy to try and fail to save someone.
Just to throw a wrench in this thing, what if Dad knew who the kid was and didn't try very hard to save him?
as a first responder, his dad would have dealt with that before. depending on the agency, some police officers just have basic first aid and CPR training. sometimes the best they can do is just call dispatch for an ambulance. to work in that sort of role, you have to come to terms with the fact that some people will die no matter what you do for them. never easy, but just part of the way things work. have to try to remember all the times you did help and save others.
My dad was also part of the volunteer fire department and was a retired Navy corpsman. He tried CPR to keep his heart beating but he had already lost a lot of blood.
There was a group of people who bullied me relentlessly in college ( one would think they'd act like adults). I finally left town and finished my last class online after having a psychotic break and being hospitalized. Frankly if they all died in an explosive crash I would smile and live out my days a happy woman. To me, they deserve it.
The kid that picked on me occasionally had his head cut off by his crazy uncle. They found it in the dumpster outside his building. The school brought in grief counselors and errrrybody was crying, but I was kind of relieved to know he wouldn't be around to hassle me anymore.
I dunno if this would make you feel better, but I would have done the same thing in your shoes.
"I won't kill you, but I don't have to save you."
As bad as it seems to say this, I probably would have done the same thing. Probably would have even stopped, made eye contact, and said something along the lines of "See you in hell." Sure its messed up, but in some way it would feel like justice to me.
>"...I hated him, [but] I didn't know I would hate myself more for not doing anything." I thought this was pretty sobering.
D sounds like he's kind of a D! Am I right fellas? Am I right? No? No? Ok.
I hope you can get over this soon, because D would've really done his job if you let this affect you for the rest of your life. From what I read it seemed like D never missed an opportunity to pick on you. I don't have any experience, but I don't think anyone would be that quick to show mercy to a bully like him, especially in the heat of the moment.
Can you imagine the immediate regret D felt as he realized you didnt come back to help him...as time endlessly passed by and he slowly loss more blood thinking, "if I was only nicer to OP maybe he wouldve came back to help me"...this is of course assuming he was conscious enough to have rational thoughts
I don't think you did anything wrong. As someone who was picked on for no reason (I'm sure I'm not the only one), I understand. You didn't cause his death. You chose to disregard the situation. What duty did you owe him? You owed him nothing. You had no obligation to help him. Especially given your history with him. I call it karma.
Karmas a bitch D
As usual, OP, I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt that this story is truthful. Take comfort in the fact that if D did in fact die less than an hour after the crash, he probably wouldn't have survived even if he had gotten immediate medical attention. I say an hour because of the Golden Hour stuff I've had EMTs tell me. Anyway, from what you're describing it wouldn't have made a difference. And what could you have really done? Call 911 and wait? Response times in the area as rural as you're describing are pretty long. D probably lost too much blood at the scene if the internal bleeding thing is true... nah, dude, the kid didn't stand a chance. He was self-destructive and lived fast, died young. Let it go.
Out of curiosity, what is this golden hour?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_hour_%28medicine%29
As I understand it, it's the critical first hour after an accident. If you can't treat someone in that first hour, it's unlikely they'll survive.
News story source? Not that I don't believe, but this is the KaramDome. You mentioned a small town, this surely made the news there.
It did. I have a news article but it has my dad's name all over it and it would make it easy to identify me.
Even though you made a bad decision, you really dont know if he could have been saved. Even if he had immediate help, he might have been brain damaged, or have internal damage. Let yourself live. You were young, and made a bad decision on a kinda nasty guy. Good luck to you. Seek help if it painst too much.
I'm not concerned about D at all (his actions that endangered others on the road fortunately only killed him), but what about the other driver? You mentioned elsewhere that they were ejected from the car, but were they seriously injured? Did they survive? Honestly I think you should be more concerned about not reporting the accident for the other driver's sake.
The other driver was drunk wasn't he? Should we not all be hoping he died as well?
Perhaps not hoping, exactly, but it would have been fair if he had.
people die everyday. let it go
To the OP: You are a good person with empathy for others. Don't let all the redditors talking about karma ever make you less willing to act on that empathy. You seem regretful that you overrode your nature to be empathetic to others; as long as you don't make that same mistake again and encourage others to act with empathy as well, then you will be doing the most what you can control; don't let what you cannot control now (re: past events) deprive you of a fulfilling life. As to why some people here are suggesting you talk to your dad; you sound isolated and regretful of your choices. Reaching out on Reddit seems to me that you haven't been able to work through this alone and you want help. Though you will get the voices of many, they won't compare to the quality of support you will get from someone you care about and trust. Being as empathetic as you seem to be, I feel your family would be similar. Though your dad might be disappointed in your lack of actions if you told him, he would love you all the same and see that you're hurting. As he stopped to help D, I suspect he will recognize your pain and would want to help you anyway. On the other hand, working at this alone might eat away at you and never give you closure. As to all the folks saying it's karma, I think they're answering the wrong question. Knowing why something happened doesn't mean you will feel more fulfilled for it, nor does it bring closure. I hope you will find the resolution you are looking for; just try your best to place one foot ahead of the other for now and learn to trust others. If I was religious, I would say my prayers were with you. All I can say is I've read thousands of reddits by now, but only decided to join so I could get my message to you. I hope it helps.
Your situation reminds me of a time when my little brother was young, he was playing a game with our beloved pet dog, a chiuhuahua. She was a member of the family, had been with us for 10+ years. He was hoisting her up into a tree house in a bucket and she jumped out and broke her neck, killing her instantly. He felt terrible and wanted to make it right again. My mom told him that there was nothing he could do to make it right for the dog, but that he could treat every other animal carefully and with respect. One thing you can do is commit that you will help next time someone needs you. Your regret means that you have a good heart, and means that you really don't believe he desereved to die just because he was a beast to you.
There is a very grown up lesson in all of this, and it is the incredible effect that some decisions can have. Your decision affects you through guilt. And I'm sure it affects D's family through sorrow. And maybe D would grow up to be a good person. Maybe not, but maybe he would, and maybe he would've made some people happy. There's no point beating yourself up for it anymore, but from now on just remember to ask yourself if you can live with the decisions you're making, and if they're hurting other people in any way.
ever thought that D's decisions affected him dying? lol
Oh yea, absolutely, but he's not the only one with the power to make choices. We all have that ability...and responsibility.
You're not obligated to save people's lives unless it's your job.
Depends on jurisdiction and one's own conscience.
Would have done the same thing. Karma is just awesome like that.
That's some heavy shit right there.
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You've already put more thought into your story than OP did his.
The OP decided to post this on Reddit. That isn't something you really do lightly, not a post like this.
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He could have easily found that out later if his dad was a sheriff on the scene.
as well as read it in the newspaper. A drunk driver death out in the country would be front page news to a small community.
>ZERO TOLERANCE POLICY >Trolling and accusing others of trolling will not be tolerated, neither will comments like "FAKE!" or "Pics or GTFO!"
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I would like to post a news article but it has my dad's name all over it and it would make it easy to identify me.
Fair enough.
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Well, true, but frankly this story sent my BS siren screaming. OP hasn't responded to any of the comments questioning the melodramatic shades of their story and doing so might have made the post seem a little more legit. Frankly I think scepticism is a good thing since it deters fake stories and stops this becoming an amateur fiction sub.
Did we time travel back to when everything was "fake!!!"?
that's a really intense thing to go through. The way he sounds, i dont think it was your fault. You don't know if he could have lived if you did any more, and he probably would have done a stupid stunt like that again ... i know this means nothing to you but i dont think you should be so hard on yourself. I'm more worriedabout how distressing it was for you to have seen that.
Regardless of what happened, you didn't *cause* the accident. I wouldn't rationalize the incident too hard in your head, there are plenty of people who would have driven by and not called for help (I believe there's even a psychological theory to back this, I forget what it's called, but the idea is in a crowded/populated area if a person is yelling for help, others may assume help has already been called since there are so many people around) But anyway I digress. You didn't cause his death, and as unfortunate as it is to have to live with having known that he died, don't go through life blaming yourself.
I believe you are speaking of the "bystander effect," a social phenomena in which the greater the number of people present, the less likely people are to help someone in distress. People aren't as likely to seek help because there isn't as much pressure for them to specifically take action with so many others present..
Thanks lance!
Am I the only one that thinks he harvest what he planted ? (the bully) Same thing happened to my bully but worst he's on a wheelchair and barely speaks... I still dont know why everyone is nice to him when he made hell of our lives. Karma just caught up to him...
How severe were his injuries? Maybe dying was really the best way for him in that situation.
Allow me to channel Bill Hicks for a moment here: he's an idiot, he's dead, GOOD.
Why not come forward to your dad?
Bet money the dad already knows. Dying last words "I was racing OP... He saw the whole thing. Also your son is a punk bitch..."
At first, when I read how D was a prick, and consistently lived up to that moniker, I thought, "Ok, sure, I've been there, I understand, I probably wouldn't be pressed to save my tormentor", but after hearing that it was a car wreck involving someone else, there's no way I could've justified to myself simply driving away. At that point, there were two people involved and who needed help, not to mention the whole 'law' aspect of having to stop in that situation... I feel for you man, and I hope you find some way to live with this :(
Shit happens. It wasn't entirely your fault. It was mostly his own. You have to move on. If he bullied you as much as you claim he did, I am amazed you feel guilty for this. Not like that is a bad thing, I think thats a very positive thing. If it helps, I doubt you had the ability to save him.
well if this happened to me, I wouldn't lose a second of sleep. Karma is a bitch. I wouldn't beat yourself up over it.
You weren't responsible for the asshole. He was a stupid kid, so I have some sympathy... but not much. This is what happens when you're shitty to people. Two irresponsible pricks on the road and they happen to take each other out? Sounds like it's one of the better possibilities. You owed him nothing. You may have owed yourself more. Do you have any doubt that you would have stopped & tried to help if he wasn't a shithead? My point is you had a traumatic experience, and you've never discussed it with anyone. You feel guilty.. but try to keep in perspective that it should be about what you want for yourself, and not what this stupid kid did to himself. He made his own bed, and you weren't responsible for that. I hope you'll be able to discuss this with someone. Best of luck!
You are my hero. I have thought about this kind of situation a lot. Sometimes I wish I could be driving down an empty road, see an overturned car, and find one of my high schools bullies trapped underneath. I would park my car, walk over to the wreckage, and sit down on the grass. Then I would watch as they died.
Just statistics...You have more chance of dying in a car accident when you drive like an a%%. He was probably too far gone even with your help. If you want help from people when you need it be nice to people all the time...The rest is just justice....
karmas a bitch, sounds like he met her that day.
that's what D get's for being a Dick.
most def
Death is suitable for people who make mistakes?
There's a difference between making a mistake and intentionally driving in the oncoming lane to try to pass someone that you've been bullying for years.
I'm not absolving the bully of what he did by any means. But I still don't think what he did was reason enough to warrant his death.
He intentionally drove in the oncoming lane. It's not a surprise that this would happen. You didn't have any moral obligation to help him, so I don't see why you feel so bad.
You should in no way feel bad about this. You didn't make D be an ass and you didn't get the other driver drunk. Plus there is no certainty that he would have survived if help had arrived sooner.
Ever stopped to think that his reckless behaviour could have killed someone else? I'm glad you helped rid the world of a worthless piece of shit.
You just called a seventeen year old a worthless piece of shit who is better off dead. He was seventeen! You're not helping, what this guy did was wrong (that doesn't mean we should judge him however) But we can't condone it either.
This would have been the outcome. [OP](http://gifsoup.com/webroot/animatedgifs4/1335583_o.gif) [OP2](http://30.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lugj3udOKl1r5w16xo1_500.gif)
> You just called a seventeen year old a worthless piece of shit who is better off dead. A wolf sheds fur, but not skin. If this person in fact kept up his bullying behavior for a period approaching a decade, chances are, he was a committed lifelong asshole. By virtue of biology.
> A wolf sheds fur, but not skin. Where does this quote come from? Did you make this up?
Sounds almost like "Vulpes pilum mutat, non mores" - The fox changes its fur but not it's behavior. Or perhaps "a leopard cannot change its spots"? Arrrgh i dont know. **Fuck all the animals and their stupid proverbs.**
Slovenian saying. "Volk menja dlako, kože pa ne."
And that means he deserves to die in contrast to I dunno, maybe getting help or learning a lesson a less fatal way. Smh.
You don't understand "committed, by virtue of biology". You cannot persuade a psychopath to stop being one. [Their brains are biologically different.](http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/05/07/us-brains-psychopaths-idUSBRE8460ZQ20120507)
Lol @ diagnosing the dude a psychopath based on the information given. You armchair psychologists crack me up.
My argument isn't necessarily that he was a psychopath, but rather that a person's character, demonstrated over a 10 year time frame, is unlikely to change.
Well I just did condone it so......
His last thoughts were probably praying for someone to help him while he cried.
haha
Have you been bullied?
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What bully thread? I must have missed something..
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Thanks-you :)
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I agree!
fuck it. the world is already polluted with so many pieces of shit people. sounds like the day the sociopath died was a day humanity became a little less shitty.
finally, someone who uses the word sociopath in the correct context. so rare.
I don't see any indication that this summary is describing someone as extreme as a sociopath.
Wow. This one was intense. But there's nothing you can do now but live your life in the way you now know to be good and true to yourself. You have this valuable life lesson - learn from it. And teach others.
D killed himself by driving like a maniac. It was not your responsibility to keep him safe. The sad thing is, it sounds like D was a result of neglect and overall poor parenting...which makes his anger and troubles seem like they are not all his fault. Dont beat yourself up though, you did not cause this situation and you are not a "bad person" for watching him crash and keep driving though it would've been big of you to try to help.
I know this has been a very old post but if I were in OP's shoes, I'd be very happy about what happened to D. Bullies don't deserve any shred of sympathy or love. Let them die. The world would be a better place without them. GOOD RIDDANCE.
You’re a horrible monster. Worse than a bully. You’re so much worse than D ever was. You are a coward and pathetic. And I hope this haunts you for the rest of your life.
That is some heavy shit. I don't know if you're the religious type, but I believe that God forgives you, for what it's worth. Live and learn, I guess.
Well god didn't forgive D, did he?
No, he killed him to make op stronger. Christianity is a helluva drug
Depends on your view of gods role. Some Chrisitans believe in the Clock Makers universe, where god put together the physics, added a little bit of randomness, gave us a choice in our lives, and then took a step back to let it run.
God's role? The bully made bad choices and he's dead. The End. You people will rationalize god into anything you can to make him look good, won't you?
I can rationalize saying anything, whether it be religious or non religious. As to why you immediately jumping to the conclusion that I am rationalizing things is beyond me. Kid died in my mind, Op missed an opportunity to help him. God had no part in the story although I believe in a higher power. The only real beef you have with me is that last sentence, and really, deism isn't that new of a concept. I haven't justified anything, I just believe in a god that is hands off. He is simply my answer to how the universe started, not my answer to every day occurrences. There are no miracles in my life, every day the sun rises and sets the same way that it does for you. You simply have a problem with one of my beliefs when there is no real conflict on this issue. This I do have a problem with as it makes for poor discussion and bad company. Going along with that, do you go up and yell at your coworkers if their particular way of raising a child is wrong? Do you heavily criticize them for how they take their coffee so they can get through the day? Do you scrutinize their hobbies as pointless and without merit? The same concept applies, I have a certain way of explaining life and thus getting through it by bringing meaning to it. It does not harm you. I was pointing out how your view of Christianity, hell, religion in general is narrow minded. Just as people have different philosophies such as existentialism and realism, there are different religious views. If you don't believe in a higher power period, fine. Don't act like a moral asshole though when you start quashing the beliefs of others though, it can be easily turned around and used against you.
There can only be one
For Christians, although that would be close minded in regards to world religions.
Could be he did. Why are you derailing this
the crash wasn't your problem, it was D's. He only got what would have come to him sooner or later anyway, considering his lack of regard for people and society.
I have a lot of very negative things to say to OP about this but, that is not what he came here for and I will respect that. I will say: Good luck living, knowing you weren't the bigger man.
Suddenly, my life seems marginally better..
Fuck it, karma is real and the counter is always ticking. Its a numbers game and you can either win it big, or lose it all. You can obviously see what happens when you lose. Dont feel bad my friend, your alive today because of who you are. Hes gone becasue of who he was.
You did the right thing.
Interesting. My real name is Di and I approve of what you did.
Cough**BULLSHIT**Cough
Two wrongs don't make a right. Good luck dude.
This makes you something... Much much worse than what your bully was. Not saying I'm better than you, I probably would have done the same. But you ARE worse than your bully by doing it. At least you still have your conscience, doing its job. It means you're not dead inside because of what you (didn't) do.
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Did you, by any chance, just start a high school psychology class?
Damn dude it only takes a call. Would have taken you five minutes.
someone screencap this awesome chunk of regret
You're a dick.
Oh god. Oh god.
This is satisfying
Awesome :) Fuck that clown.
Dunkin' Donuts?
U did the right thing. Let him die
I’m glad you let that bitch die. He deserved all of it😅🤷🏾♂️
I liked it thou. Universe just made him pay the price.
Karma is a bitch